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View Full Version : *Official* Things Are Tough All Over 4/18 Postgame Thread


DaveFeelsRight
04-18-2010, 03:13 PM
Forgetful weekend in Cleveland. Forgetful weekend for Chicago sports all around.

KnightSox
04-18-2010, 03:13 PM
This has been a long weekend.

palehozenychicty
04-18-2010, 03:14 PM
Didn't see the game, but glancing at the box score, Floyd was pretty much it.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 03:14 PM
And the fun has just begun!

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2010, 03:15 PM
Look on the bright side. They scored more than three runs! They executed an RBI sac fly in the ninth inning! Ozzie and Walker are vindicated!

Boondock Saint
04-18-2010, 03:15 PM
It's going to be a while before I watch this team with anything more than a passing interest.

Blueprint1
04-18-2010, 03:15 PM
Nice team Kenny. Fire Greg Walker.

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 03:15 PM
I really hope we do better at home this time around...or I'll be seeing a lot of losses in person next week.

Not much to say. Gavin had a bad outing. It happens, but the timing was really unfortunate. I hope he bounces back next week.

soltrain21
04-18-2010, 03:16 PM
Do not care about how ****ty of a weekend the rest of Chicago sports had. This team blows. Our pitching is great (minus Gavin today) - shame we are going to waste it with such a piss poor offense.

Of course Ozzie helps magnify how ****ty it is by putting Mark ****ING Kotsay in the three hole today. Pretty awful when you pinch hit your three hitter. Goes to show you terrible of a decision it was, eh Ozzie?

And to all those people who said it was just Ozzie talking in Spring Training. Yeah.

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2010, 03:16 PM
And the bullpen was fantastic too!

Nothing to worry about now! All is sunshine and daisies! Everything's coming up Milhouse!

cleanwsox
04-18-2010, 03:16 PM
I suppose Cleveland will lose 5 straight again after whooping our asses. What a joke..:angry:

harwar
04-18-2010, 03:16 PM
bummer ..

WhiteSox5187
04-18-2010, 03:16 PM
Floyd had a bad outting, but the inability of the offense continues to be a re-occurring theme.

Also, Kotsay should not be a three hitter nor should he be in the lineup every day or every other day.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-18-2010, 03:16 PM
Fun fact of the day:

Scotty Pods has 21 hits this year - the same number as Pierre, Kotsay and Jones COMBINED

Nelfox02
04-18-2010, 03:16 PM
wow......

if fortune teller would have told me Friday morning that there would be a sweep in this series this weekend---no way do I think it is the tribe

even with the offense as it is---Mark, Jake, and Gavin going?

not sure what to say in this thread that has not already been said in other threads, only difference today was miserable starting pitching made this game a non factor really quick

LoveYourSuit
04-18-2010, 03:16 PM
Once again a stellar performance by the bullpen goes to waste.

There is my positive spin to this.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-18-2010, 03:17 PM
Wow, that ump sure wanted to go home, didn't he?

If PK walks, the tying run is at the plate. :angry:

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 03:17 PM
These games are starting to run together for me. Same old, same old, minus the bad starting pitching today.

masloan
04-18-2010, 03:17 PM
Do not care about how ****ty of a weekend the rest of Chicago sports had. This team blows. Our pitching is great (minus Gavin today) - shame we are going to waste it with such a piss poor offense.

Of course Ozzie helps magnify how ****ty it is by putting Mark ****ING Kotsay in the three hole today. Pretty awful when you pinch hit your three hitter. Goes to show you terrible of a decision it was, eh Ozzie?

And to all those people who said it was just Ozzie talking in Spring Training. Yeah.

Keep whining about Kotsay in the 3 hole...what makes you think putting Quentin there would have better?

VMSNS
04-18-2010, 03:17 PM
Same ****, different day. Our offense if just a god-awful ****ty mess.

But don't worry, guys. We need to calm down because it's only April and there are still 5 months of baseball left.

thomas35forever
04-18-2010, 03:17 PM
:anon:

I'm hoping we start to see plenty of those at the ballpark starting on Tuesday.

masloan
04-18-2010, 03:18 PM
Wow, that ump sure wanted to go home, didn't he?

If PK walks, the tying run is at the plate. :angry:

With AJ up...pretty much game over.

LoveYourSuit
04-18-2010, 03:18 PM
Fun fact of the day:

Scotty Pods has 21 hits this year - the same number as Pierre, Kotsay and Jones COMBINED


The Sox need run production from the middle of the order, unless Pods would be hitting 3,4,5,6 for us it doesn't really matter.

Also, Pods will suck before the year is done. That or get hurt.

harwar
04-18-2010, 03:18 PM
and .. we have to play tampa the next 3 games .. i wonder if we can win any of them ..

Rdy2PlayBall
04-18-2010, 03:18 PM
Aside from the 1st inning, the Sox won that game. Good to see. The lack of hits with 2 men on sucked... but at least we know our bullpen is good when we need them the least. Hopefully everyone gets some good rest and starts to pick it up Tuesday.

Juan has been hitting the ball VERY WELL, he just needs to get some more luck. Once he heats up, everyone might follow. Alexei looks to also be picking up the pace at the plate, as well as Teahen. I feel a 20 game win streak comming.

soltrain21
04-18-2010, 03:19 PM
Keep whining about Kotsay in the 3 hole...what makes you think putting Quentin there would have better?

Please point to anywhere in my post that TCQ should be our three hitter. I must've misread what I wrote.

masloan
04-18-2010, 03:19 PM
Fun fact of the day:

Scotty Pods has 21 hits this year - the same number as Pierre, Kotsay and Jones COMBINED

You cannot be serious. You are whining about Pierre, Kotsay and Jones?

soxlady8
04-18-2010, 03:19 PM
is better than 7-0 ...however , a loss is still a loss ---

on the bright side the bullpen did a fantastic job (including Williams !! )

I cannot believe the Injuns SWEPT us... ughhhhhhhhhhhh
Cleveland does not ROCK !

The bus ride/flight back home to the Chi I am sure is going to be painful --

WhiteSoxFTW
04-18-2010, 03:19 PM
With AJ up...pretty much game over.

Yeah I know AJ was having a bad day, but you still had Jones on the bench. And Lucy. It's a long shot, but hell...it's a shot.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 03:20 PM
Luck is the residual of design Rdy2.

Lip

Nelfox02
04-18-2010, 03:20 PM
and .. we have to play tampa the next 3 games .. i wonder if we can win any of them ..


praying to take just one at home shows how low the general expectation for this team is

masloan
04-18-2010, 03:20 PM
Please point to anywhere in my post that TCQ should be our three hitter. I must've misread what I wrote.

Ok who would you put there?

thomas35forever
04-18-2010, 03:20 PM
In the words of Lee Elia, "I'll tell ya one ****ing thing: I hope we get ****ing hotter than ****."

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 03:20 PM
In the words of Lee Elia, "I'll tell ya one ****ing thing: I hope we get ****ing hotter than ****."

Hah. I can't wait to hear Ozzie's postgame comments.

harwar
04-18-2010, 03:21 PM
The bus ride/flight back home to the Chi I am sure is going to be painful --
i'm sure most will be feeling no pain after wheels up ..

soltrain21
04-18-2010, 03:21 PM
Aside from the 1st inning, the Sox won that game. Good to see. The lack of hits with 2 men on sucked... but at least we know our bullpen is good when we need them the least. Hopefully everyone gets some good rest and starts to pick it up Tuesday.

Juan has been hitting the ball VERY WELL, he just needs to get some more luck. Once he heats up, everyone might follow. Alexei looks to also be picking up the pace at the plate, as well as Teahen. I feel a 20 game win streak comming.

:kneeslap:

LoveYourSuit
04-18-2010, 03:21 PM
Aside from the 1st inning, the Sox won that game. Good to see. The lack of hits with 2 men on sucked... but at least we know our bullpen is good when we need them the least. Hopefully everyone gets some good rest and starts to pick it up Tuesday.

Juan has been hitting the ball VERY WELL, he just needs to get some more luck. Once he heats up, everyone might follow. Alexei looks to also be picking up the pace at the plate, as well as Teahen. I feel a 20 game win streak comming.


Right, just like April games don't count.:rolleyes:

soltrain21
04-18-2010, 03:21 PM
Ok who would you put there?

Rios.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-18-2010, 03:22 PM
This team proves it cannot play consistently. We've wasted a couple of pitching gems with poor offense, and then we've had a couple games this past week where the starting pitching has **** the bed. I really am not looking forward to the series against the Rays this week.

masloan
04-18-2010, 03:22 PM
Rios.

While that might be the best option, I do not thinnk Guillen wants to put that pressure on him just yet.

LoveYourSuit
04-18-2010, 03:23 PM
Hah. I can't wait to hear Ozzie's postgame comments.

Ozzie has become all talk and ZERO action.

I don't even listen to the garbage that comes out of his mouth anymore.

Jerko
04-18-2010, 03:23 PM
I'd love to see the bullpen hold the other team scoreless, ya know, when the Sox are winning or tied? 4 blown leads in the 7th or later this year but down 7-0 these guys are unhittable.

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 03:23 PM
While that might be the best option, I do not thinnk Guillen wants to put that pressure on him just yet.

I mean this with all due respect, but when would be the best time? We're sinking here, and Rios has been pretty good lately.

Nelfox02
04-18-2010, 03:24 PM
Ok who would you put there?


with this roster? not sure who to put there now I still dont want to see Kotsay there tho

soltrain21
04-18-2010, 03:24 PM
While that might be the best option, I do not thinnk Guillen wants to put that pressure on him just yet.

Well Ozzie can just go the the media naked and throw his **** at them to take the pressure off of Rios - since everything Ozzie does is to take pressure off of the team.

masloan
04-18-2010, 03:24 PM
I mean this with all due respect, but when would be the best time? We're sinking here, and Rios has been pretty good lately.

I personally would put him there. I just think Guillen has kept him at 6 b/c he seems comfortable there.

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2010, 03:25 PM
Keep whining about Kotsay in the 3 hole...what makes you think putting Quentin there would have better?

Beckham, Paulie and Quentin should move down in the order. Rios and Jones should move up in the order. I'd also consider hitting Teahen second because at least he takes pitches and walks.

LoveYourSuit
04-18-2010, 03:26 PM
I'd love to see the bullpen hold the other team scoreless, ya know, when the Sox are winning or tied? 4 blown leads in the 7th or later this year but down 7-0 these guys are unhittable.


The bullpen is the only part of this team I cannot bitch about.

4 blown leads when all you have is a 1 run cushion is un-fair to judge them by.

Maybe the offense should give these guys a bit more room to work with.

masloan
04-18-2010, 03:26 PM
Beckham, Paulie and Quentin should move down in the order. Rios and Jones should move up in the order. I'd also consider hitting Teahen second because at least he takes pitches and walks.

I agree. Teahen has been pretty good so far. Beckham and Quentin are really hurting the team right now.

thomas35forever
04-18-2010, 03:27 PM
Beckham, Paulie and Quentin should move down in the order. Rios and Jones should move up in the order. I'd also consider hitting Teahen second because at least he takes pitches and walks.
At this point, I'm not sure shuffling the lineup will do any good. The offense is in such an anemic state right now I don't think it matters. I'm just glad I'm not the manager so I don't have to make these decisions.

harwar
04-18-2010, 03:28 PM
Beckham, Paulie and Quentin should move down in the order. Rios and Jones should move up in the order. I'd also consider hitting Teahen second because at least he takes pitches and walks.
i couldn't agree more .. (or maybe i could) .. at any rate i've been saying this for some time now

Dibbs
04-18-2010, 03:28 PM
Jones has a 1.073 OPS on the year

Kotsay has a .425 OPS on the year.

Jones has 27 ABs and Kotsay has 25 ABs. All in favor of Ozzie say "I". ***crickets***

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 03:28 PM
Ozzie has become all talk and ZERO action.

I don't even listen to the garbage that comes out of his mouth anymore.

A significant percentage of the fans will forget Ozzie's comments the second we go on a good winning steak, IMO.

harwar
04-18-2010, 03:28 PM
and having a lead-off guy that will not take a walk kinda sux

soltrain21
04-18-2010, 03:29 PM
A significant percentage of the fans will forget Ozzie's comments the second we go on a good winning steak, IMO.

Assuming one would actually happen. Which seems doubtful.

Dibbs
04-18-2010, 03:29 PM
Keep whining about Kotsay in the 3 hole...what makes you think putting Quentin there would have better?

Because he is a better hitter for one.

Nelfox02
04-18-2010, 03:34 PM
A significant percentage of the fans will forget Ozzie's comments the second we go on a good winning steak, IMO.


agreed---in June 2011, when we are in the midst of a good run and ozzie is no longer here, comments will be long forgotten

Red Barchetta
04-18-2010, 03:34 PM
4-9 while losing 7 of 9 within the division. Not a good start!

I'm hoping this is one of those starts we laugh at come September, but this is depressing.

DonnieDarko
04-18-2010, 03:35 PM
As much as I would love to blame the offense for this one, I'm afraid that this loss is mostly Floyd's fault. If he hadn't given up that grand slam, we would have won this.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-18-2010, 03:35 PM
Keep whining about Kotsay in the 3 hole...what makes you think putting Quentin there would have better?

Oh, I don't know, maybe the fact that Kotsay has completely sucked since 2005 and wasn't really all that good even before that.

thomas35forever
04-18-2010, 03:36 PM
As much as I would love to blame the offense for this one, I'm afraid that this loss is mostly Floyd's fault. If he hadn't given up that grand slam, we would have won this.
The offense still only scored four runs. You won't beat many good teams with that much offensive output.

HangWiffum
04-18-2010, 03:36 PM
While that might be the best option, I do not thinnk Guillen wants to put that pressure on him just yet.

Exactly. Why put probably your hottest hitter in that spot? I'd rather have some piece of garbage bench player hitting in that spot. How bout you?

Rdy2PlayBall
04-18-2010, 03:36 PM
To be honest, I am REALLY feeling a sweep of the Rays right now. It's gotta happen. If it does, the beginning of this season will be forgotten in my book.

HangWiffum
04-18-2010, 03:37 PM
and having a lead-off guy that will not take a walk kinda sux

Or even be able to hit the ball out of the infield with any consistency

JB98
04-18-2010, 03:39 PM
We are two weeks into the season, and this is already the second four-game losing streak we've had to endure.

Five straight losses to the rebuilding Cleveland Indians? Really?

Dibbs
04-18-2010, 03:39 PM
To be honest, I am REALLY feeling a sweep of the Rays right now. It's gotta happen. If it does, the beginning of this season will be forgotten in my book.

You're feeling it, huh? What makes you feel that. I am feeling one win, tops.

Boondock Saint
04-18-2010, 03:41 PM
Something tells me the next series is going to feature our first Man Soo Lee PTC win of the season.

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2010, 03:41 PM
To be honest, I am REALLY feeling a sweep of the Rays right now. It's gotta happen. If it does, the beginning of this season will be forgotten in my book.

They really need to go a a hot streak like winning eight of the next ten, to get above .500, and then win a few more series after that, to get me to "forget" this lousy start.

Sweeping the next series, only to go back to losing or .500 baseball, it not going to cut it.

JB98
04-18-2010, 03:43 PM
You're feeling it, huh? What makes you feel that. I am feeling one win, tops.

Yeah. Forget about sweeping teams. I'd just like to win a game.

harwar
04-18-2010, 03:44 PM
We are two weeks into the season, and this is already the second four-game losing streak we've had to endure.

Five straight losses to the rebuilding Cleveland Indians? Really?

yea, for the first time i'm really starting to realize how bad things are .. if the twins come back and win today (they are down 7-5 in the 7th)and beat the tribe next week while we get swept by the rays .. we are then 9 games out ..

thomas35forever
04-18-2010, 03:44 PM
Sweeping the next series, only to go back to losing or .500 baseball, it not going to cut it.
Exactly. It'll be disappointing to say the least if they sweep Tampa and then go back to losing. Consistency has been lacking with us for a long time. I'll feel confident when we get it back.

Red Barchetta
04-18-2010, 03:45 PM
Yeah. Forget about sweeping teams. I'd just like to win a game.

...or maybe (gasp), win a series!

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 03:46 PM
...or maybe (gasp), win a series!

Hey buddy, let's not get greedy. :smile:

sox1970
04-18-2010, 03:46 PM
They really need to go a a hot streak like winning eight of the next ten, to get above .500, and then win a few more series after that, to get me to "forget" this lousy start.

Sweeping the next series, only to go back to losing or .500 baseball, it not going to cut it.

By my count they have to go 15-6 between Tuesday and the end of the 2-game set in Minnesota, to get back these losses. That includes a road trip to Texas and New York. Good luck.

Nelfox02
04-18-2010, 03:46 PM
maybe TB wears themselves out beating the heck out of Boston all weekend?


hopefully KC hangs on---or else staring at six games out after just 2 weeks

Rdy2PlayBall
04-18-2010, 03:47 PM
You're feeling it, huh? What makes you feel that. I am feeling one win, tops.It was more of the "I'm feeling a cheeseburger right now" version of the saying. Like... I really hope they sweep it. I do feel like they will split the series though, something has to click soon. It's not like this team is going to bat .200 all season. I think that would be some kind of record or something.

theamb
04-18-2010, 03:47 PM
Fun fact of the day:

Scotty Pods has 21 hits this year - the same number as Pierre, Kotsay and Jones COMBINED

No tears were shed when noodle arm was released but god...that's sad

Then again, two of those guys should be full-time bench players

Dibbs
04-18-2010, 03:48 PM
Well, the bright side is we can get another good draft pick like Gordon Beckham next year. Unfortunately Gordon seems to stink now too.

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 03:49 PM
Well, the bright side is we can get another good draft pick like Gordon Beckham next year. Unfortunately Gordon seems to stink now too.

You're getting a little ahead of yourself, no?

harwar
04-18-2010, 03:49 PM
hopefully KC hangs on---or else staring at six games out after just 2 weeks
jim thome just struck out with the bases loaded so hopefully the royals can hold

Konerko05
04-18-2010, 03:49 PM
This team is already making watching baseball not fun. It's pretty sad.

I even watched 90% of the games last season, but this year I find myself turning games off for extended periods of time.

Bump34
04-18-2010, 03:50 PM
Sweep the Rays?!?!?!?

JB98
04-18-2010, 03:51 PM
Well, the bright side is we can get another good draft pick like Gordon Beckham next year. Unfortunately Gordon seems to stink now too.

He's been indoctrinated into the Greg Walker Hitting School for Mental Midgets. Gordon received an 'A' for screaming a profanity after popping out weakly to the first baseman with two men on in the seventh inning today.

DonnieDarko
04-18-2010, 03:51 PM
The offense still only scored four runs. You won't beat many good teams with that much offensive output.

If the pitching staff plays up to their potential, then that just might be enough to win games. That's the big caveat, though.

singapore_sling
04-18-2010, 03:51 PM
Does anyone else feel like one of our biggest problems if the makeup of the clubhouse? It really hurts when you lose the veteran presence of a Jim Thome and a Jermaine Dye. The older guys really set the tempo and make it easier for the younger ones to get into a rhythm. I think it was a mistake not to bring at least one of them back.

harwar
04-18-2010, 03:52 PM
Sweep the Rays?!?!?!?
sounds like a plan dave ..

Tragg
04-18-2010, 03:52 PM
I'd also consider hitting Teahen second because at least he takes pitches and walks.
Ozzie and Greg will get him out of that bad habit and teach him how to be aggressive.


It's hard to be optimistic....we're 1-5 against one of the worst teams in the league.
We could straighten up and win 75, but Williams has got to get some young talent into this organization. Way too many resources are used on dogmeat veterans.

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 03:52 PM
He's been indoctrinated into the Greg Walker Hitting School for Mental Midgets. Gordon received an 'A' for screaming a profanity after popping out weakly to the first baseman with two men on in the seventh inning today.

He's following AJ's example. Two games in a row, AJ has slammed his bat down while running toward first base. Yes, AJ, that will help matters.

goon
04-18-2010, 03:52 PM
Rios.

Putting Kotsay 3rd in this lineup is utterly INSANE. I'd stick with Quentin batting 3rd, who cares if he is struggling, a lot of guys are struggling, as of right now, until proven otherwise, he's still our most talented offensive player.

Jurr
04-18-2010, 03:57 PM
This team is already making watching baseball not fun. It's pretty sad.

I even watched 90% of the games last season, but this year I find myself turning games off for extended periods of time.

Exactly. It's terrible to think that the Pirates are a more entertaining baseball option than the Sox. This team is in BIG trouble. One addition here or there is going to do it, either. Elite talent is nowhere on this roster offensively. Quentin had one great year, but was a journeyman prior. Pierre, Jones, and Kotsay are on the steep decline, as is Konerko. You've
got Beckham and squat. Awful.

Nelfox02
04-18-2010, 03:59 PM
Does anyone else feel like one of our biggest problems if the makeup of the clubhouse? It really hurts when you lose the veteran presence of a Jim Thome and a Jermaine Dye. The older guys really set the tempo and make it easier for the younger ones to get into a rhythm. I think it was a mistake not to bring at least one of them back.


Winning does wonders for clubhouse chemistry

Our biggest problem is we went into the season for a second year in a row with a dysfunctional team the line up that is a combination of what Ozzie wanted and Kenny had the budget to put together just does not have what it takes that is what scares me the most here, I dont think this is just a "rough patch"----I think what we saw this week is what is to be expected form this group

--the occasional win where we score a lot of runs
--the occasional loss where a starter just does not have it
--games where the offense sputters and scraps to put up 3 runs

problem is, it is a lot to ask for our pitching staff (from top to bottom) to hold AL teams to 2 runs or less ALL the time at least IMO

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 03:59 PM
Walker feels it's simply a lack of confidence. (http://www.670-thescore.com/blog/2010/04/18/walker-talks-sox-lose-road-trip-ends/)

edit - Some stuff in the article about Ozzie taking criticism from the fans. I think this was before today's game.

goon
04-18-2010, 04:00 PM
Walker feels it's simply a lack of confidence. (http://www.670-thescore.com/blog/2010/04/18/walker-talks-sox-lose-road-trip-ends/)

I simply lack confidence in Greg Walker.

johnnyg83
04-18-2010, 04:01 PM
I asked in the game thread, but is there one player that Walker can claim to have improved? One? In 7 years?

Konerko05
04-18-2010, 04:04 PM
You cannot be serious. You are whining about Pierre, Kotsay and Jones?

Yeah, how dare anyone complain about the leadoff hitter batting an extremely empty .200. The 5 (3) hitter is also doing a splendid job with his whopping .136 AVG.

They aren't intregal parts of this lineup at all. Quentin and Beckham should put them on their shoulders too.

voodoochile
04-18-2010, 04:04 PM
You're getting a little ahead of yourself, no?

:welcome:

Danielgosox38
04-18-2010, 04:05 PM
I simply lack confidence in Greg Walker.


I feel that Greg Walker blows chunks, and needs to be fired.

TDog
04-18-2010, 04:07 PM
Look on the bright side. They scored more than three runs! They executed an RBI sac fly in the ninth inning! Ozzie and Walker are vindicated!

There was nothing wrong with the offense today. The sacrifice fly only supports my argument that hitters should be charged with a time at bat for run-scoring fly balls. A sacrifice fly obviously was not the objective in that Quentin at bat, the run being meaningless at that point.

The problem today was that Gavin Floyd was a lousy pitcher. He was knocked out with nobody out in the second inning, and the Indians only got two hits in the remaining seven innings of relief work. Really, if the pitching, particularly the starting pitching, was as good as people believed it was coming into the season and as some people still believe, The White Sox would have a winning record. Floyd didn't give the White Sox a chance to win in his last outing when the Sox had two runs diespite getting only one hit.

Unfortunately, today the Sox got strong innings out of the bullpen that should have been burned by a starter. But it wasn't as if Guillen could have left Floyd in the game after the second inning today when it became apparent he wasn't going to get over his rough start.

Guillen's biggest mistake today was starting Floyd.

It is encouraging to see Ramirez and Teahen starting to hit. I wouldn't suggest that Ramirez should be moved up in the order at this point, but he might be ready to catch fire. One interesting thing I noticed in today's game is that the Indians don't seem to respect Beckham at the plate nearly as much as they respect Quentin, although they gambled Saturday by seeming to pitch around Beckham to get to Quentin with a man on third and one out.

The Indians went to Laffey to pitch to Pierre, which is understandable, but they left in the southpaw to pitch to Beckham, even though it seemed obvious that either Jones or Quentin would hit for Kotsay after Beckham, and with Konerko after that, Cleveland was looking at a string of right-handed hitters. They left in Laffey to get Beckham out, and when Quentin was announced, went to the right-hander.

It seemed an odd move if the manager had his head in the game. If you bring in the right-hander to get Beckham, you are looking at the possibility of Kotsay staying in the game because you force Guillen to decide whether he wants to pinch-hit a right-handed to face a right-hander. The Indians conceded that Quentin, a more dangerous hitter than Kotsay, would be hitting there.

I wondered if it had just been a case of the right-hander not being loose yet, but later in the game, the Indians again brought in a new pitcher to face Quentin after retiring Beckham. It's possible I am missing some of the things the Cleveland bench were considering, but as I was following the game, the moves taken together seemed odd.

Konerko05
04-18-2010, 04:09 PM
I'm usually hovering into "Fire Walker" territory, but this year he's a non factor in my thought process.

Walker might not be much of a help, but I firmly believe Walker can not make good hitters bad. The problem is just having bad hitters in the lineup.

KMcMahon817
04-18-2010, 04:10 PM
yea, for the first time i'm really starting to realize how bad things are .. if the twins come back and win today (they are down 7-5 in the 7th)and beat the tribe next week while we get swept by the rays .. we are then 9 games out ..

Hahahahaha.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 04:12 PM
Singapore:

The issue with your comment is that the Sox have quiet leaders. Thome, Dye, Konerko, Buehrle...class guys, good people but not the type of people you need to wake up a corspe like clubhouse.

And those guys weren't very good on the field last year...one can only think they are probably going to continue to see their careers go downhill (save perhaps for Mark) and having them around won't necessarily equal winning games.

Lip

johnnyg83
04-18-2010, 04:17 PM
I'm usually hovering into "Fire Walker" territory, but this year he's a non factor in my thought process.

Walker might not be much of a help, but I firmly believe Walker can not make good hitters bad. The problem is just having bad hitters in the lineup.

My mantra continues to be, "he may not be the problem, but he sure as **** ain't the solution."

guillensdisciple
04-18-2010, 04:18 PM
Right now, we suck.


That is all.

Boondock Saint
04-18-2010, 04:20 PM
Singapore:

The issue with your comment is that the Sox have quiet leaders. Thome, Dye, Konerko, Buehrle...class guys, good people but not the type of people you need to wake up a corspe like clubhouse.

And those guys weren't very good on the field last year...one can only think they are probably going to continue to see their careers go downhill (save perhaps for Mark) and having them around won't necessarily equal winning games.

Lip

Also, there isn't anyone that wouldn't look like a total hypocrite if they were to try to light a fire under the team's ass. Nobody's playing well enough to rightfully say, "You guys need to start doing something out there". Everybody's one of those guys.

sox1970
04-18-2010, 04:22 PM
http://twitter.com/OzzieGuillen/status/12417457674

Stay there.

Danielgosox38
04-18-2010, 04:27 PM
http://twitter.com/OzzieGuillen/status/12417457674

Stay there.


Ozzie's tweets are really adding fuel to the fire. I wish he would stay in Miami.

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 04:30 PM
Ozzie's tweets are really adding fuel to the fire. I wish he would stay in Miami.

This is nothing compared to his son's tweets today. In fact, it's downright tame.

So far, no postgame comments from him, though. I'm guessing there are none.

guillensdisciple
04-18-2010, 04:30 PM
Um, if it makes anyone feel any better, the Red Sox are 4-8 too.

YES!!!

Boondock Saint
04-18-2010, 04:30 PM
It's funny how he says he needs a day off, because most people on here think he's barely working anyway. He can't be spending too much time on his lineup if he thinks that Jones needs to sit every other day and Kotsay should be the team's #3 hitter. Hell, we need a day off from him.

Frankfan4life
04-18-2010, 04:31 PM
If the pitching staff plays up to their potential, then that just might be enough to win games. That's the big caveat, though.I see no reason to hope that this team will do any better than last year's. The pitching is acceptable but the bad offense will probably negate it.

Danielgosox38
04-18-2010, 04:33 PM
This is nothing compared to his son's tweets today. In fact, it's downright tame.

So far, no postgame comments from him, though. I'm guessing there are none.


Just read them. Yep, you are right.

Frankfan4life
04-18-2010, 04:33 PM
Um, if it makes anyone feel any better, the Red Sox are 4-8 too.I would feel better if the Red Sox were in our division. :tongue:

Boondock Saint
04-18-2010, 04:36 PM
Um, if it makes anyone feel any better, the Red Sox are 4-8 too.

YES!!!

They still get to fatten up on the Orioles and Jays. We're 1-5 against one of the two division teams we're supposed to inflate our record against.

soxinem1
04-18-2010, 04:43 PM
And the bullpen was fantastic too!

Nothing to worry about now! All is sunshine and daisies! Everything's coming up Milhouse!

http://entimg.msn.com/i/125/tv/NonSimpsonCharacters/simpsons_milhouse_125.jpg

'Uh, what do I have to do with this mess?'

psyclonis
04-18-2010, 04:45 PM
So when is Ozzie going to shake up the lineup?
I can see this working for awhile or until Pierre figures out AL pitching:

Teahen L
Beckham R
Jones R
Konerko R
Pierzynski L
Quentin R
Rios R
Pierre L
Ramirez R

This team needs a good L bat... :whiner:

I also don't understand the Ozzie hate, its KWs fault for giving Oz the team he wanted...

SOXSINCE'70
04-18-2010, 04:47 PM
When the team plays bad like this, I tend to eat things I really shouldn't
(I.E. Triple cheeseburgers at Wendy's). At this rate, I may weigh 400 lbs. before June.:rolleyes:

I'm being sarcastic, of course,but this team is going to make me bald before June if someone doesn't start HITTING THE ****ING BALL!!:angry:

ChiSoxGirl
04-18-2010, 04:56 PM
Fun fact of the day:

Scotty Pods has 21 hits this year - the same number as Pierre, Kotsay and Jones COMBINED

Holy hell. :thud:

sox1970
04-18-2010, 04:58 PM
Pretty difficult for Andruw to get hits while sitting on the bench.

Crestani
04-18-2010, 05:00 PM
Um, if it makes anyone feel any better, the Red Sox are 4-8 too.

YES!!!


We are 4-9..!!

ChiSoxGirl
04-18-2010, 05:00 PM
Pretty difficult for Andruw to get hits while sitting on the bench.

Seriously. And how does the best damn hitter on the team get rewarded for his .296 average, which is also the best on the team? He's benched. :rolleyes: :?: :mad:

canOcorn
04-18-2010, 05:04 PM
Fun fact of the day:

Scotty Pods has 21 hits this year - the same number as Pierre, Kotsay and Jones COMBINED

Scotty Pods is not the team Ozzie wanted. He's got the team he wanted and they look like the bottom of my 6 month old daughters diapers. Shame on Kenny for letting Ozzie talk him into this stitbag offense.

Mod Edit: I don't know if it was intentional or not, but that's a language filter violation. Please be careful when you swear, hate to give someone a rip for hitting the wrong key.

soxfanatlanta
04-18-2010, 05:06 PM
This team makes me glad that it's sunny and 70 outside; I have no guilt missing this game.

WhiteSox1989
04-18-2010, 05:18 PM
I'm pretty thankful I had more important things to do than watch this game.

Still trying to stay optimistic about the season, though.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-18-2010, 05:20 PM
This team makes me glad that it's sunny and 70 outside; I have no guilt missing this game.

70? Where the heck do you live? I'm dealing with 50's right now. :(:

happydude
04-18-2010, 05:22 PM
Exactly. It's terrible to think that the Pirates are a more entertaining baseball option than the Sox. This team is in BIG trouble. One addition here or there is going to do it, either. Elite talent is nowhere on this roster offensively. Quentin had one great year, but was a journeyman prior. Pierre, Jones, and Kotsay are on the steep decline, as is Konerko. You've
got Beckham and squat. Awful.

This is closer to the truth than anything else I've heard or read; although to simply acknowledge this would, I guess, obviate the need to say much of anything else. Questioning Guillen, calling for Walker's head, asking for veterans to "do" something is a natural reaction to the failures on the field and the frustration we all feel because of those failures but we may simply be spitting into the wind.

We don't have a single All Star quality position player on the roster. No amount of coaching, lineup changes, or whatever will remedy this disturbing fact. The players aren't failing intentionally; some of them are unproven in MLB, others have seen better days, the rest just aren't very good. I'll cheer and hope for the best.

Craig Grebeck
04-18-2010, 05:27 PM
Calling Carlos Quentin a journeyman is as idiotic as penciling Kotsay in at no. 3. He was an elite prospect with a tremendous debut and an injury-plagued sophomore showing. He hit the **** out of the ball at every stop before 2008 -- it was just a matter of being healthy.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-18-2010, 05:30 PM
This is closer to the truth than anything else I've heard or read; although to simply acknowledge this would, I guess, obviate the need to say much of anything else. Questioning Guillen, calling for Walker's head, asking for veterans to "do" something is a natural reaction to the failures on the field and the frustration we all feel because of those failures but we may simply be spitting into the wind.

We don't have a single All Star quality position player on the roster. No amount of coaching, lineup changes, or whatever will remedy this disturbing fact. The players aren't failing intentionally; some of them are unproven in MLB, others have seen better days, the rest just aren't very good. I'll cheer and hope for the best.Not one that's playing at that level now. But we have a few guys that could easily make the team if they start playing to their potential. Quentin is just a few games off from batting around .280 and being top 5 in RBIs. He only seems terrible now because he's had a 2-3 game super slump. Rios is REALLY picking it up. Beckham is off to a slow start, but can also heat up at any give time. And Mark Kotsay is All-Star lightning in a bottle.

TDog
04-18-2010, 05:31 PM
Scotty Pods is not the team Ozzie wanted. He's got the team he wanted and they look like the bottom of my 6 month old daughters diapers. Shame on Kenny for letting Ozzie talk him into this ****bag offense.

The White Sox know Scott Podsednik well enough to know they couldn't count on him to produce if they guaranteed him the money he was demanding. Podsednik has a different mindset with the White Sox than he does with the Royals, and he is off to a quick start. Not coincidentally, he didn't get from the Royals what he was demanding form the white Sox.

The Podsednik playing for the Royals right now is Guillen's type of player. The Podsednik that White Sox management, who know Podsednik pretty well, were condiment they would have if they met his demands were not.

You can't assume the Podsednik with the Royals is the same Podsednik who would be leading off for the White Sox this year.

Corlose 15
04-18-2010, 05:32 PM
SSDD, they Sox had chances to score runs in this game and surprise surprise, they don't come through.

Beckham 0-4 1BB
Kotsay 0-3
Konerko 1-5
Pierzynski 0-4

It would be nice if hitters could still perform around here in the last year of their contract.

Craig Grebeck
04-18-2010, 05:33 PM
TDog, I've noticed a trend: you never blame the offense. If we lose 2-1, you seem to blame the pitcher for not giving up 0 runs and roll out your "Ozzie Guillen's biggest mistake was starting __________ at pitcher."

No, his biggest mistake was putting the team's worst hitter in the 3 hole. All the while Jones (who is hot) is sitting.

SCCWS
04-18-2010, 05:36 PM
This is closer to the truth than anything else I've heard or read; although to simply acknowledge this would, I guess, obviate the need to say much of anything else. Questioning Guillen, calling for Walker's head, asking for veterans to "do" something is a natural reaction to the failures on the field and the frustration we all feel because of those failures but we may simply be spitting into the wind.

We don't have a single All Star quality position player on the roster. No amount of coaching, lineup changes, or whatever will remedy this disturbing fact. The players aren't failing intentionally; some of them are unproven in MLB, others have seen better days, the rest just aren't very good. I'll cheer and hope for the best.

Correct. Only Beckham is a quality player. Reason, a high draft pick. Sox simply go the Tampa Bay route. Have 3-4 lousy years, get high draft picks and Bingo. But you have to sign Beckham to a 7-8 year deal so he is around in 2015 when the studs arrive................................

Corlose 15
04-18-2010, 05:42 PM
This team isn't devoid of talent and they haven't needed to be all-star caliber players in order to avoid being 4-9 right now. The problem is that you still have regulars hitting under .200 and nobody is clicking at the same time.

First off it was Konerko and Quentin hitting but nobody was on in front of them so it made little difference. Now you have the bottom of the lineup producing and your 2,3,4,5 hitters doing nothing.

They dion't need to be murderers row, they just have to stop being the 2003 Tigers.

guillensdisciple
04-18-2010, 05:44 PM
Correct. Only Beckham is a quality player. Reason, a high draft pick. Sox simply go the Tampa Bay route. Have 3-4 lousy years, get high draft picks and Bingo. But you have to sign Beckham to a 7-8 year deal so he is around in 2015 when the studs arrive................................


I don't know about you, but there are soooo many White Sox fans that will have an absolute fit with that idea. There is not a chance in hell I will tolerate and give money to 5 years of ****ty baseball.

Bring me a champion damnit. I am wasting my free time, my money, and even my mental state to root for something that gives me some form of return. If this team decides that 5 years of **** is the right way to make things right then I will happily tell Jerry to **** himself. White Sox fan until the day I die, but I will not be happy with a team full of young or old guys who suck.

We deserve a winner the same way the Yankees and Red Sox have theirs. It's some bull**** that Chicago is such a worthless city for sports.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 05:44 PM
SCCWS:

If the Sox have a decade like Tampa there will be nobody is the seats at U.S. Cellular...none, nada, zippo. And unless the Sox have the quality of scouts say like Minnesota there's no guarantee any of those high draft picks would pan out.

Double jeopardy there SCCWS.

Sox fans won't support gartbage (nor should they...) that's partially why Kenny has tried to "rebuild while contending" which to me is impossible.

I said the same thing a few days ago in another thread about the talent. It's doesn't matter if it's "home run or nothing" or "Ozzieball" if you don't have the talent to play it you'll look like ****.

Since 2007 the Sox have kept bums on the roster because they were owed money, tried to sign guys on the cheap on the downsides of their careers, hoped injury plagued guys would rebound, they even hoped Bartolo Colon would give a damn to say nothing of stiffs like Corky Miller, Dewayne Wise, Wilson Betemit and their ilk.

For this philosophy, this atttidue there's plenty of blame to go around the organization. It's not just one person.

Lip

russ99
04-18-2010, 05:49 PM
I don't know about you, but there are soooo many White Sox fans that will have an absolute fit with that idea. There is not a chance in hell I will tolerate and give money to 5 years of ****ty baseball.

Bring me a champion damnit. I am wasting my free time, my money, and even my mental state to root for something that gives me some form of return. If this team decides that 5 years of **** is the right way to make things right then I will happily tell Jerry to **** himself. White Sox fan until the day I die, but I will not be happy with a team full of young or old guys who suck.

We deserve a winner the same way the Yankees and Red Sox have theirs. It's some bull**** that Chicago is such a worthless city for sports.

Agreed, rebuilding is for suckers and this fanbase won't stand for it.

But if we assume we should be in the same level as the Yankees and Red Sox, we need to bring in more revenue and spend more on players.

It seems that Kenny wanted to keep the majority of the team together and fill in spots with inexpensive players than dump Jenks, trade a pitcher and spend in the $115-120 range, but Jerry showed no inkling that he was interested in doing that.

Corlose 15
04-18-2010, 05:49 PM
SCCWS:

If the Sox have a decade like Tampa there will be nobody is the seats at U.S. Cellular...none, nada, zippo. And unless the Sox have the quality of scouts say like Minnesota there's no guarantee any of those high draft picks would pan out.

Double jeopardy there SCCWS.

Sox fans won't support gartbage (nor should they...) that's partially why Kenny has tried to "rebuild while contending" which to me is impossible.

I said the same thing a few days ago in another thread about the talent. It's doesn't matter if it's "home run or nothing" or "Ozzieball" if you don't have the talent to play it you'll look like ****.

Since 2007 the Sox have kept bums on the roster because they were owed mkoney, tried to sign guys on the cheap on the downsides of their careers, hoped injury plagued guys would rebound, they even hoped Bartolo Colon would give a damn to say nothing of stiffs like Corky Miller, Dewayne Wise, Wilson Betemit and their ilk.

For this philosophy, this atttidue there's plenty of blame to go around the organization. It's not just one person.

Lip

Those three were all bench players, and Wise was one of the few people who was actually hitting in the 2008 ALDS.

I don't see how this really applies to this year other than maybe playing Mark Kotsay too much. He's a quality piece and his most valuable assets are his defense, versatility, and pinch hitting. People were bitching about Andruw Jones but he's actually been hitting, Juan Pierre is coming off a season in which he had a .365 OBP and provided a real spark for the Dodgers when Manny was suspended. Mark Teahen is supposed to be a lower order hitter and despite his rough start has actually been producing lately.

The players that arent' getting it done right now are Beckham, Konerko, Pierzynski and to a lesser extent Quentin and Pierre. Most of those guys are core players.

Are you pissed about Jason Nix or Omar Vizquel, or Randy Williams, the last 3 guys on the roster?

doublem23
04-18-2010, 05:50 PM
Keep whining about Kotsay in the 3 hole...what makes you think putting Quentin there would have better?

Uh, because Carlos Quentin > Mark Kotsay.

TCQ might have gone 0-4 with 4 K today. But I'll guarantee over the course of a season the team that bats TCQ #3 will do better than the team that bats Kotsay #3.

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 05:51 PM
I'm not really sure what Ozzie's going to do, so I'll ask. Do you think he'll shake up the lineup on Tuesday, or will it be more of the same?

doublem23
04-18-2010, 05:52 PM
While that might be the best option, I do not thinnk Guillen wants to put that pressure on him just yet.

Alex certainly won't be feeling any pressure come June when we're effectively out of the race.

Craig Grebeck
04-18-2010, 05:52 PM
I'm not really sure what Ozzie's going to do, so I'll ask. Do you think he'll shake up the lineup on Tuesday, or will it be more of the same?
He shakes up the lineup every goddamn game.

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 05:52 PM
He shakes up the lineup every goddamn game.

I mean, will he make an effective lineup? :tongue:

guillensdisciple
04-18-2010, 05:54 PM
I mean, will he make an effective lineup? :tongue:


Depends on the players, not him.

SCCWS
04-18-2010, 05:55 PM
SCCWS:

If the Sox have a decade like Tampa there will be nobody is the seats at U.S. Cellular...none, nada, zippo. And unless the Sox have the quality of scouts say like Minnesota there's no guarantee any of those high draft picks would pan out.

Double jeopardy there SCCWS.

Sox fans won't support gartbage (nor should they...) that's partially why Kenny has tried to "rebuild while contending" which to me is impossible.

I said the same thing a few days ago in another thread about the talent. It's doesn't matter if it's "home run or nothing" or "Ozzieball" if you don't have the talent to play it you'll look like ****.

Since 2007 the Sox have kept bums on the roster because they were owed money, tried to sign guys on the cheap on the downsides of their careers, hoped injury plagued guys would rebound, they even hoped Bartolo Colon would give a damn to say nothing of stiffs like Corky Miller, Dewayne Wise, Wilson Betemit and their ilk.

For this philosophy, this atttidue there's plenty of blame to go around the organization. It's not just one person.

Lip

LIP: There is nobody in the seats at Tropicana Field for the Rays. Tickets cost $11 for good seats but they jump all the way upto $14 for Red Sox /Yankees. But they signed Longoria for life. Same type seats in Boston cost $135 to see Tampa or White Sox.
I was responding to the posters that say there are all fading offensive players on the Sox roster. If so, the team is doomed for a few years. Only option is to trade Buehrle ( we could have had Ellsbury in center if KW pulled the trigger last time) and Peavy and get some young talent to go with the high draft picks. Cleveland did that 5 years ago and look how far they have come................................or not

cards press box
04-18-2010, 05:59 PM
The players that arent' getting it done right now are Beckham, Konerko, Pierzynski and to a lesser extent Quentin and Pierre. Most of those guys are core players.

Beckham, Konerko, Pierzynski and Quentin are core players and they are all struggling right now. I still think the team will play better but the schedule coming up will be pretty difficult and they may not make it back to .500 for a while (like May).

guillensdisciple
04-18-2010, 05:59 PM
LIP: There is nobody in the seats at Tropicana Field for the Rays. Tickets cost $11 for good seats but they jump all the way upto $14 for Red Sox /Yankees. But they signed Longoria for life. Same type seats in Boston cost $135 to see Tampa or White Sox.
I was responding to the posters that say there are all fading offensive players on the Sox roster. If so, the team is doomed for a few years. Only option is to trade Buehrle ( we could have had Ellsbury in center if KW pulled the trigger last time) and Peavy and get some young talent to go with the high draft picks. Cleveland did that 5 years ago and look how far they have come................................or not


But see that's the problem right there. We have the fifth most expensive seating in the bigs. Where the **** does our money go to? Why aren't we seating the fifth best team in the majors consistently? Seriously, it makes NO sense. NONE! Look at our market. It's Chicago for the love of God! This city is probably the third most prosperous city in America, but we lose. HOW!?!?!?

happydude
04-18-2010, 06:01 PM
Calling Carlos Quentin a journeyman is as idiotic as penciling Kotsay in at no. 3. He was an elite prospect with a tremendous debut and an injury-plagued sophomore showing. He hit the **** out of the ball at every stop before 2008 -- it was just a matter of being healthy.

I wouldn't have used the term "journeyman" to describe Carlos because it carries with it a negative implication of his ability. However Carlos is in his 5th or 6th season of action at this level and his career numbers, excepting the greater part of 2008, don't suggest he's an elite player, either. As your post implies, this may be largely due to injury.

I hope thats the case but even if it is I'm not comfortable having as the linchpin of our offense a highly talented but injury prone player with a limited history of success (Carlos) and a guy who, I believe, has yet to complete one full season as a major leaguer (Gordon).

october23sp
04-18-2010, 06:02 PM
This team is assy and making baseball not fun.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-18-2010, 06:16 PM
The White Sox know Scott Podsednik well enough to know they couldn't count on him to produce if they guaranteed him the money he was demanding. Podsednik has a different mindset with the White Sox than he does with the Royals, and he is off to a quick start. Not coincidentally, he didn't get from the Royals what he was demanding form the white Sox.

The Podsednik playing for the Royals right now is Guillen's type of player. The Podsednik that White Sox management, who know Podsednik pretty well, were condiment they would have if they met his demands were not.

You can't assume the Podsednik with the Royals is the same Podsednik who would be leading off for the White Sox this year.

How about the Podsednik that led the team in batting average last year?

BringHomeDaBacon
04-18-2010, 06:18 PM
But see that's the problem right there. We have the fifth most expensive seating in the bigs. Where the **** does our money go to? Why aren't we seating the fifth best team in the majors consistently? Seriously, it makes NO sense. NONE! Look at our market. It's Chicago for the love of God! This city is probably the third most prosperous city in America, but we lose. HOW!?!?!?

The parking is expensive too.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-18-2010, 06:20 PM
But see that's the problem right there. We have the fifth most expensive seating in the bigs. Where the **** does our money go to? Why aren't we seating the fifth best team in the majors consistently? Seriously, it makes NO sense. NONE! Look at our market. It's Chicago for the love of God! This city is probably the third most prosperous city in America, but we lose. HOW!?!?!?Maybe because the other teams above us sell out all the time and we only sell out on opening day and the Cubs vs Sox series? :scratch:

Brian26
04-18-2010, 06:24 PM
But see that's the problem right there. We have the fifth most expensive seating in the bigs. Where the **** does our money go to? Why aren't we seating the fifth best team in the majors consistently? Seriously, it makes NO sense. NONE! Look at our market. It's Chicago for the love of God! This city is probably the third most prosperous city in America, but we lose. HOW!?!?!?

High paid players can underperform just as easily as cheap players can.

guillensdisciple
04-18-2010, 06:27 PM
High paid players can underperform just as easily as cheap players can.


What does our payroll rank in the bigs?

Baron
04-18-2010, 06:27 PM
I mean, will he make an effective lineup? :tongue:

I think Jones needs to be in the lineup just about everyday from now on

masloan
04-18-2010, 06:27 PM
Yeah, how dare anyone complain about the leadoff hitter batting an extremely empty .200. The 5 (3) hitter is also doing a splendid job with his whopping .136 AVG.

They aren't intregal parts of this lineup at all. Quentin and Beckham should put them on their shoulders too.

I never said Quentin and Beckham should put them on their shoulders. I just dont understand how you could be so lost. Beckham and Quentin are our best hitters. When they struggle it has a larger negative effect on the team than when Pierre, Jones, and Kotsay struggle.

I will try to make this simpler for you since it is apparently a bit too complex. Using the A-F grade scale from elementary school: If Quentin and Beckham are "A" players, and Pierre and Kotsay are "C" players...if they are all playing like "D" players, which pair is more disappointing?

Konerko05...please tell me which White Sox player so far has underperformed the most compared to your expectations for them.

Brian26
04-18-2010, 06:28 PM
Only option is to trade Buehrle ( we could have had Ellsbury in center if KW pulled the trigger last time) and Peavy and get some young talent to go with the high draft picks. Cleveland did that 5 years ago and look how far they have come................................or not

I'm glad the Sox didn't make the trade with Boston for Buehrle, and Peavy's not going anywhere.

Cleveland will take years to recover from the Sabbathia and Lee trades, notwithstanding what they did to us this weekend.

Sox
04-18-2010, 06:39 PM
Fun fact of the day:

Scotty Pods has 21 hits this year - the same number as Pierre, Kotsay and Jones COMBINED

i felt along that it was a bad idea to get rid of Scotty Pods!!!!!

TDog
04-18-2010, 06:40 PM
TDog, I've noticed a trend: you never blame the offense. If we lose 2-1, you seem to blame the pitcher for not giving up 0 runs and roll out your "Ozzie Guillen's biggest mistake was starting __________ at pitcher."

No, his biggest mistake was putting the team's worst hitter in the 3 hole. All the while Jones (who is hot) is sitting.

I blame the offense for quite a few losses. Extra-inning losses or one-run losses where the offense fails to bring in a runner from third with less than two out are responsible for this team coming into today's game with a record of 4-8 instead of 8-4. The Sox should have enough offense with the players they have. The offense has not been performing up to its capabilities, but the offense wouldn't need to have a higher batting average to perform well enough to have a solid winning record. And that is with the starting pitching underperforming.

This team is built around strong starting pitching. And I have no problem with that. The team's resources is going roward pitching, just as it usually did during the 1950s and '60s, although those teams were better at scratching out runs, once scoring 11 runs in an inning with only one hit. Today, with more teams making a watered-down playoff system, building a team with strong starting pitching is the best way to build a team for October success.

There was nothing wrong with today''s starting lineup, although I wouldn't have put the hitters in that order. Batting Beckham second is just as bad as batting Kotsay third, especially when you are going to replace him with Quentin. Today Ramirez turned out to be the best hitter, and he was batting ninth.

I don't think this team would be any more successful if they had Jim Thome a a full-time DH.

Both the offense and the defense have been problems. But if the pitching this season had been performing as people expected them too, the offense to date would have been sufficient to have this team over .500.

I expect the offense to improve when Pierre starts hitting. It looks like Ramirez has started hitting, and Teahen is looking a lot better. I hope the starting pitching improves.

Of course, starting Floyd today wasn't a decision Guillen had to make. The rotation is set and pitchers take their turn. But if Floyd has a quality start, the Sox had enough offense to win today even with Kotsay batting third, let alone Beck hitting second.

Today's lineup wasn't a problem.

TDog
04-18-2010, 06:45 PM
... Only option is to trade Buehrle ( we could have had Ellsbury in center if KW pulled the trigger last time) and Peavy and get some young talent to go with the high draft picks. Cleveland did that 5 years ago and look how far they have come................................or not

If Kenny Williams trades a high-salaried pitcher, it won't be Mark Buehrle.

But I don't expect any such trades this season. And I really hope they aren't. Rebuilding would doom the Sox to a dark loosing period worse than anything fans have seen this century.

Tragg
04-18-2010, 06:46 PM
Only option is to trade Buehrle ( we could have had Ellsbury in center if KW pulled the trigger last time) and Peavy and get some young talent to go with the high draft picks. Cleveland did that 5 years ago and look how far they have come................................or not
Actually, we could pull some young talent in here if we trade some of our relief pitchers in July like Putz and Jenks. Teams routinely overpay for relievers in July.
Solid starters are hard to find.
Relievers aren't hard to find, except in July.
That said, Williams hasn't been particularly effective at peddling veterans before the July deadline. He tried in 2007 and didn't get much done at all.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 07:01 PM
Corlose:

The following namnes were all on the team since the start of 2007. Some p[layed more than others but to me this proves the point that the talent simply hasn't been there to play WHATEVER style you want, "home run or nothing" or "Ozzieball"

Anderson, Broadway, Bukvich, Contreras, Day, Erstad, Fields, Gonzales, Haeger, Logan, MacDougal, Masset, Myers, Owebs, Richar, Sisco, Terrero, Wasserman, Richard, Russell, Wise, Betemit, Colon, Egbert, Gobble, Lillibridge, Miller, Nix, Nunez, Torres.

You're only as strong as your worst player. The Sox have had a bunch of them since 2007 and given Ozzie's tendency to play bench guys a lot...well that spells trouble.

This year I think guys like Jones, Kotsay and Teahan would make a terrific bench but that's the problem as some have pointed out...they are "starting" or "semi-starting" because they are the best the Sox have. Tends to prove the point in my opinion.

Lip

twinsuck
04-18-2010, 07:04 PM
I'm sick of this team... :whiner:

Nelfox02
04-18-2010, 07:05 PM
very interesting to see what happens here if this team is effectively out of it come the deadline (and unfortunatley I think the chances of that are very good.......)

AJ/Konerko/Jenks----they aggressively shop and may find a home for But unless Jenks really turns it around, you arent getting much in return for those guys

no chance of moving rios with that contract, even if he is having a good year

so what is left to move? Peavy and Burlymon.....do they dare do that?

if so, seas of green seats will be out at the Cell.....and who knows what Jerry gives KW to work with money wise when building 2011

that is what scares me the most.....I just dont like the feel of how this organization moving going forward

doublem23
04-18-2010, 07:08 PM
so what is left to move? Peavy and Burlymon.....do they dare do that?

Both of them have full no trade clauses in their contract. They're likely not going anywhere. Peavy, maybe, I guess, but he's not exactly wowing everyone out there with his 89 MPH fastball.

canOcorn
04-18-2010, 07:08 PM
Uh, because Carlos Quentin > Mark Kotsay.

TCQ might have gone 0-4 with 4 K today. But I'll guarantee over the course of a season the team that bats TCQ #3 will do better than the team that bats Kotsay #3.

Are you sure that you're not just abusing stats? I mean, have you considered every variable and you're foolishly just being negative on Kotsay and he wasn't the better choice? I hate when people are so full of themselves as to not consider that there's a better alternative. Sometimes Sox fans just suck! :redneck

LoveYourSuit
04-18-2010, 07:09 PM
5 Of the 6 wins by the Tribe this year..... Your Chicago White Sox.

The Tribe looks like a team that will lose 90+ games this year.

johnnyg83
04-18-2010, 07:22 PM
We scored seven runs off of an awful tribe staff... That's not good enough to win.

edit: eight runs

Corlose 15
04-18-2010, 07:27 PM
Corlose:

The following namnes were all on the team since the start of 2007. Some p[layed more than others but to me this proves the point that the talent simply hasn't been there to play WHATEVER style you want, "home run or nothing" or "Ozzieball"

Anderson, Broadway, Bukvich, Contreras, Day, Erstad, Fields, Gonzales, Haeger, Logan, MacDougal, Masset, Myers, Owens, Richar, Sisco, Terrero, Wasserman, Richard, Russell, Wise, Betemit, Colon, Egbert, Gobble, Lillibridge, Miller, Nix, Nunez, Torres.

You're only as strong as your worst player. The Sox have had a bunch of them since 2007 and given Ozzie's tendency to play bench guys a lot...well that spells trouble.

This year I think guys like Jones, Kotsay and Teahan would make a terrific bench but that's the problem as some have pointed out...they are "starting" or "semi-starting" because they are the best the Sox have. Tends to prove the point in my opinion.

Lip

Most of those guys are from a lost 2007 season that you're trying to extrapolate over the course of the last three years. Most of those guys hardly even played for the Sox, and got a cup of coffee which EVERY major league team gives to players, especially when the regulars that they have aren't panning out. The vast majority of those players never broke with the Sox, they were mid season replacements. Some of them even performed well in the time that they were with the Sox.

Conteras was one of the best pitchers in baseball over the 2nd half of 2005 and was very good in 2006 until he got hurt.

MacDougal was lights out in 2006 when they traded for him, there was no questioning his talent.

Richar had put up solid minor league numbers for a couple of years in a row, and the Sox traded him for Griffey.

Masset put up a good season last year in Cincinatti's bullpen.

Anderson, Broadway and Fields were first round picks who were going to get their shots. Anderson did nothing, Fields did ok in 2007, and Broadway pitched a whopping 24 innings over two seasons.

Nix is a backup infielder who showed some pop last year, Miller was a backup catcher to a catcher who plays 150 games a year, and Torres pitched all of 28 innings.

As for this year Teahen is hitting .267/.436/.467 and Jones is at .296/.406./.667. They aren't the problem.

As much as you're bitching about the last 3 years they were still able to win the division in 2008.

Konerko05
04-18-2010, 07:50 PM
I never said Quentin and Beckham should put them on their shoulders. I just dont understand how you could be so lost. Beckham and Quentin are our best hitters. When they struggle it has a larger negative effect on the team than when Pierre, Jones, and Kotsay struggle.

I will try to make this simpler for you since it is apparently a bit too complex. Using the A-F grade scale from elementary school: If Quentin and Beckham are "A" players, and Pierre and Kotsay are "C" players...if they are all playing like "D" players, which pair is more disappointing?

Konerko05...please tell me which White Sox player so far has underperformed the most compared to your expectations for them.

Please don't condescend me. What you are saying is common sense. Of course, Quentin and Beckham struggling are going to have a negative effect on the team.

But every hitter goes through slumps, even the elite class. My problem is the lack of accountability you hold for every other player on the team. The entire offense is horrible. What's sad is a struggling Quentin and Beckham are still better than the majority of the lineup.

To say our leadoff hitter, and five hole hitter shouldn't be held accountable because our two best hitters are struggling is complete garbage. Everyone in this lineup needs to hit. When the good players slump, the other seven need to be able to pick up the slack.

I'm not going to complain about Beckham and Quentin because they have hit this year, and they will continue to hit this year.

I am going to complain about Pierre weakly grounding to 2B every at bat because that's probably going to be the norm this year. Kotsay is probably going to hit .240 with little power. Yet, they are both getting the majority of playing time in very important lineup spots.

This more lands on the manager as well. Pierre is collecting the most at bats while Kotsay is batting in a huge RBI spot.

Meanwhile, Jones is sitting on the bench half the games. He should be replacing one of these guys. If it's Pierre that stays in the lineup, he should be moved to 9th.

You also reference the mental state of players having an effect on their performance. Rios shouldn't be moved out of the 6th spot because you're worried about hurting his confidence? Well what about the mental effect on Quentin, and Beckham knowing that rest of the lineup is goddamn awful and they are going to have to make most of the offense themselves? I'd say that's a little more pressure than moving a veteran a couple spots in the lineup.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 07:53 PM
Corlose:

Then your saying the talent level has been fine since 2007?

I'm comparing it in general terms to the period from 2000-2006.

If you are that's your opinion and I must strongly disagree.

The White Sox 2009 opening day roster had at least five guys on it who would be hard pressed to even be a back up on a good team. Maybe you are OK with that, again I'm not.

Specifically Contreras was kept around because of one reason, the money owed on his contract. He was a walking disaster since late July 2006 if you want to be completely factual. I'm sorry he got hurt but the Sox kept trotting him out there and all he did was lose games.

Again my point is I don't care what style of offense you want if you don't have good players to execute it, you're dead and the Sox have been a corpse a hell of a lot more than they've been alive since July 2006.

One divisional title and a quick playoff exit in 2008 doesn't change that equation one single iota especially since they are on pace for their 3rd losing season in four years, a stretch that hasn't happend since the "bad days" of 1997 through 1999. And I'll repeat in case you missed it, Teahan, Jones and Kotsay are solid players who would make an exceptional bench and good support for a top club, the fact that they are starting or will be starting most of this season (unless they are traded in a fire sale) speaks volumes about the Sox "talent level."

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2010, 08:01 PM
I'm not that concerned about peripheral players. I am concerned about the net effect Walker and Guillen have on "core" young players like Quentin and Beckham.

Beckham has the talent to be a .300 hitter with 40 doubles and 20 homers. Quentin has the talent to be a .900+ OPS power hitter.

The Twins' coaching staff has maximized the potential of Mauer, Morneau, Kubel and Cuddyer (as well as most of their role players). So I expect Walker and Guillen to maximize the potential of Beckham and Quentin.

I hold Guillen and Walker to the same high standard that the Twins' coaching staff achieves year after year. Maybe it's unfair, but life - and baseball - isn't fair.

WhiteSox5187
04-18-2010, 08:06 PM
Corlose:

Then your saying the talent level has been fine since 2007?

I'm comparing it in general terms to the period from 2000-2006.

If you are that's your opinion and I must strongly disagree.

The White Sox 2009 opening day roster had at least five guys on it who were backup's for a good team at best. Maybe you are OK with that, again I'm not.

Specifically Contreras was kept around because of one reason, the money owed on his contract. He was a walking disaster since late July 2006 if you want to be completely factual. I'm sorry he got hurt but the Sox kept trotting him out there and all he did was lose games.

Again my point is I don't care what style of offense you want if you don't have good players to execute it, you're dead and the Sox have been a corpse a hell of a lot more than they've been alive since July 2006.

One divisional title and a quick playoff exit in 2008 doesn't change that equation one single iota. And I'll repeat in case you missed it, Teahan, Jones and Kotsay are solid players who would make an exceptional bench and good support for a top club, the fact that they are starting or will be starting most of this season (unless they are traded in a fire sale) speaks volumes about the Sox "talent level."

Lip

He was actually lights out in the first half of 2008, hurt his elbow and kept trying to pitch, then got hurt for good and was never the same. He also looked really good after accepting that demotion to the minors in 2009 too.

Craig Grebeck
04-18-2010, 08:07 PM
He was actually lights out in the first half of 2008, hurt his elbow and kept trying to pitch, then got hurt for good and was never the same. He also looked really good after accepting that demotion to the minors in 2009 too.
Flashes of greatness do not mitigate the big pile of **** that was that contract.

WhiteSox5187
04-18-2010, 08:11 PM
Flashes of greatness do not mitigate the big pile of **** that was that contract.

It was an awful contract but to suggest that he didn't contribute at all to the Sox success in '08 isn't true either. Had he stayed healthy, I don't think it comes down to game 163.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 08:12 PM
Sox 5187:

According to Retrosheet, Contreras was 3-6 from August 1 2006, through the end of the season with an ERA of over 5.50.

His composite numbers since August 1, 2006 until the time the Sox traded him in 2009, were a record of 28-48 with an ERA of over five.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
04-18-2010, 08:15 PM
I'm not that concerned about peripheral players. I am concerned about the net effect Walker and Guillen have on "core" young players like Quentin and Beckham.

Beckham has the talent to be a .300 hitter with 40 doubles and 20 homers. Quentin has the talent to be a .900+ OPS power hitter.

The Twins' coaching staff has maximized the potential of Mauer, Morneau, Kubel and Cuddyer (as well as most of their role players). So I expect Walker and Guillen to maximize the potential of Beckham and Quentin.

I hold Guillen and Walker to the same high standard that the Twins' coaching staff achieves year after year. Maybe it's unfair, but life - and baseball - isn't fair.

There are two things with Quentin, the first is his health, will he ever stay healthy enough to put up those kind of numbers? The second thing is that there has only been one year where Quentin has had more than two hundred plate appearances and an OPS over .800, let alone .900, and that was 2008. There is a strong possibility that 2008 might be an anomaly. Or he might never be able to get back to that level. This is really a make or break year for him.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-18-2010, 08:18 PM
There are two things with Quentin, the first is his health, will he ever stay healthy enough to put up those kind of numbers? The second thing is that there has only been one year where Quentin has had more than two hundred plate appearances and an OPS over .800, let alone .900, and that was 2008. There is a strong possibility that 2008 might be an anomaly. Or he might never be able to get back to that level. This is really a make or break year for him.I doubt that... unless he does REALLY TERRIBLE. He actually put up decent power numbers last year after missing a lot of the season. The potential is always there.

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2010, 08:20 PM
There are two things with Quentin, the first is his health, will he ever stay healthy enough to put up those kind of numbers? The second thing is that there has only been one year where Quentin has had more than two hundred plate appearances and an OPS over .800, let alone .900, and that was 2008. There is a strong possibility that 2008 might be an anomaly. Or he might never be able to get back to that level. This is really a make or break year for him.

Health is a separate issue.

If during his times of health Quentin does not produce up to his potential, then I think it is fair to assign some measure of blame to Ozzie and Walker.

Mauer has had injuries, but the Twins coaching staff has continued to coach him up to his potential.

Brian26
04-18-2010, 08:22 PM
His composite numbers since August 1, 2006 until the time the Sox traded him in 2009, were a record of 28-48 with an ERA of over five.

Without looking it up, that can't be correct. Contreras had 48 losses between 2006 and 2009?

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 08:24 PM
Brian:

I stand corrected he had 42 losses, I accidentally counted 2006 twice.

My apologies.

August 1, 2006 to end of season: 6
2007: 17
2008: 6
2009: 13

Total 42.

From the start of the 2006 season to the time he was traded he had a total of 45 losses (2006-9, 2007-17, 2008-6, 2009-13) One could make the case that as ineffective as he was if he remained healthy and kept pitching he may have had over 50 losses.

Lip

SCCWS
04-18-2010, 08:36 PM
Okay. Time to move on. Tampa Bay is coming to town. They just swept Boston and stole almost every time they got on base. Maddon said they felt coming in the Boston combo of Martinez and Veritek were weak against base-stealers. Wait till they check AJ's stats. Has Lucy shown any ability to throw out runners?

WhiteSox5187
04-18-2010, 08:38 PM
Brian:

I stand corrected he had 42 losses, I accidentally counted 2006 twice.

My apologies.

August 1, 2006 to end of season: 6
2007: 17
2008: 6
2009: 13

Total 42.

From the start of the 2006 season to the time he was traded he had a total of 45 losses (2006-9, 2007-17, 2008-6, 2009-13) One could make the case that as ineffective as he was if he remained healthy and kept pitching he may have had over 50 losses.

Lip

Again, Lip, he had an ERA in the threes in April, May and into early June before he went on the DL for a problem with his elbow. Had he not gotten hurt he might have kept up THOSE numbers. Don't get me wrong, he was awful in the second half of '06, abysmal in 2007 and wasn't ready to go out of the gate in 2009. But he had a decent 2008.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 08:41 PM
5187:

Understand I'm not trying to pick on Contreras. I appreciate what he did in 2005 I was just using him as an example of bad decisions and a lack of overall talent since 2007 that has contributed mightily to the state of the franchise right now in 2010.

Bottom line, you've got to have good players, and the Sox haven't had as many as they used to for the past three plus seasons. Why that is, who is to blame for that...I can't say.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
04-18-2010, 09:09 PM
5187:

Understand I'm not trying to pick on Contreras. I appreciate what he did in 2005 I was just using him as an example of bad decisions and a lack of overall talent since 2007 that has contributed mightily to the state of the franchise right now in 2010.

Bottom line, you've got to have good players, and the Sox haven't had as many as they used to for the past three plus seasons. Why that is, who is to blame for that...I can't say.

Lip

My point is though that Contreras contributed a great deal to the Sox divisional title of 2008. I agree with your overall point though.

Hegewisch
04-18-2010, 09:45 PM
I finally changed the radio dial after the 3rd inning. Totally astounding. And, this is my first year as a Split season Ticket Holder !!!:scratch: (I hope it is not one of those seasons where you go to the game to unwind, relax without a worry about a team in a pennant race)
What I am confused about is a Tweet from Ozzie after the game. (I am on his Twitter list) He said:"I hope I can enjoy my day off in Miami. I need one." I am confused. With what appears to be a chaotic season start, I would have thought the team would be back at the Cell tomorrow to ReGroup and practice. And, hopefully have Ozzie hammering down. Is this normal, he jaunts off to Miami for a day ? What about the rest of the team ? Does everyone just show up Tuesday a couple hours before the game like everything is alright ????? W T F !?!?:angry:

LoveYourSuit
04-18-2010, 09:54 PM
I finally changed the radio dial after the 3rd inning. Totally astounding. And, this is my first year as a Split season Ticket Holder !!!:scratch: (I hope it is not one of those seasons where you go to the game to unwind, relax without a worry about a team in a pennant race)
What I am confused about is a Tweet from Ozzie after the game. (I am on his Twitter list) He said:"I hope I can enjoy my day off in Miami. I need one." I am confused. With what appears to be a chaotic season start, I would have thought the team would be back at the Cell tomorrow to ReGroup and practice. And, hopefully have Ozzie hammering down. Is this normal, he jaunts off to Miami for a day ? What about the rest of the team ? Does everyone just show up Tuesday a couple hours before the game like everything is alright ????? W T F !?!?:angry:


I don't get it either.

The season just started and he can't wait for the off day.

Stay in Miami for all I care.

That's the attitude you want from the skipper?

guillensdisciple
04-18-2010, 10:02 PM
I don't get it either.

The season just started and he can't wait for the off day.

Stay in Miami for all I care.

That's the attitude you want from the skipper?


Nah man, come on, he meant that like "I need a break from this crap/ losing stuff". He didn't mean it in the way where he needs a vacation and doesn't want to be on the job. Ozzie wants to win, that we know.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-18-2010, 10:13 PM
I finally changed the radio dial after the 3rd inning. Totally astounding. And, this is my first year as a Split season Ticket Holder !!!:scratch: (I hope it is not one of those seasons where you go to the game to unwind, relax without a worry about a team in a pennant race)
What I am confused about is a Tweet from Ozzie after the game. (I am on his Twitter list) He said:"I hope I can enjoy my day off in Miami. I need one." I am confused. With what appears to be a chaotic season start, I would have thought the team would be back at the Cell tomorrow to ReGroup and practice. And, hopefully have Ozzie hammering down. Is this normal, he jaunts off to Miami for a day ? What about the rest of the team ? Does everyone just show up Tuesday a couple hours before the game like everything is alright ????? W T F !?!?:angry:

A guy that has over 5 months off a year needs to go to Miami for one day while his team is flailing at 4-9? What a douche.

Brian26
04-18-2010, 10:16 PM
Brian:

I stand corrected he had 42 losses, I accidentally counted 2006 twice.

My apologies.

August 1, 2006 to end of season: 6
2007: 17
2008: 6
2009: 13

Total 42.

From the start of the 2006 season to the time he was traded he had a total of 45 losses (2006-9, 2007-17, 2008-6, 2009-13) One could make the case that as ineffective as he was if he remained healthy and kept pitching he may have had over 50 losses.

Lip

No need to apologize. I wouldn't have guessed it was as high as 42 either. I've blocked most of 2007 from my memory banks, which is pretty remarkable because I went to 41 games that year. I forgot just how terrible Contreras was with 17 losses. I also thought he was injured too often in 2009 to rack up 13 losses.

Viva Medias B's
04-18-2010, 10:19 PM
A guy that has over 5 months off a year needs to go to Miami for one day while his team is flailing at 4-9? What a douche.

In the grand scheme of things, this probably means nothing. However, it does not look good given our record. It is a sign that Ozzie is aloof.

Brian26
04-18-2010, 10:19 PM
Just re-watched the end of the game on DVR. The Sox offense was brutal in those last three innings. Top of Seventh, 1st and 2nd with no outs. Top of Eight, two on with two outs. Top of Nine, 1st and 3rd with no outs. All they managed to score was one lousy run on a sac fly. There was some bad luck in there as AJ and Beckham both smoked balls that the Tribe was fortunate to catch.

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 10:22 PM
A guy that has over 5 months off a year needs to go to Miami for one day while his team is flailing at 4-9? What a douche.

Who knows? Maybe this entire team needs a breather to do better (or batting practice. Either one :redneck). I think this is only the second off day we've had, so maybe Ozzie will use this time regroup and figure out what went wrong.

...or maybe I'm just being a Pollyanna. :cool:

BadBobbyJenks
04-18-2010, 10:23 PM
Just how stubborn will Ozzie be with this Kotsay situation I wonder.

Hegewisch
04-18-2010, 10:26 PM
Who knows? Maybe this entire team needs a breather to do better (or batting practice. Either one :redneck). I think this is only the second off day we've had, so maybe Ozzie will use this time regroup and figure out what went wrong.

...or maybe I'm just being a Pollyanna. :cool:

I Hope You Are Right.................................:wink:

If not...........Enjoy the tailgates at least......:gulp:See You Tuesday Night.....................GO SOX GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 10:27 PM
Ozzie according to the Tribune is going home to watch his son play in high school.

Lip

guillensdisciple
04-18-2010, 10:29 PM
Ozzie according to the Tribune is going home to watch his son play in high school.

Lip


But you know, that's not allowed.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-18-2010, 10:34 PM
But you know, that's not allowed.

His reason for going doesn't change my opinion one bit. He doesn't have to get up at 4 AM but during the season and especially while his team sucks balls I expect him to be working. Excuse me for not caring if he has to miss his son's game while making millions of dollars.

guillensdisciple
04-18-2010, 10:36 PM
His reason for going doesn't change my opinion one bit. He doesn't have to get up at 4 AM but during the season and especially while his team sucks balls I expect him to be working. Excuse me for not caring if he has to miss his son's game while making millions of dollars.

You bring up a valid argument, but maybe an approach where the team breathes for a second will do us better?

Consider what kind of a manager Ozzie is. He is probably on their asses every second of every day. Maybe it was breading the tension in the clubhouse they don't need. So, he takes the day off. Lets the players breathe and collect themselves. They're professionals guys, one day of baseball practice won't change that. Professionals get messed up mentally more than anything else, and this could be what Ozzie is trying to attack right now.

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 10:36 PM
His reason for going doesn't change my opinion one bit. He doesn't have to get up at 4 AM but during the season and especially while his team sucks balls I expect him to be working. Excuse me for not caring if he has to miss his son's game while making millions of dollars.

Are you serious? :rolleyes:

BringHomeDaBacon
04-18-2010, 10:37 PM
You bring up a valid argument, but maybe an approach where the team breathes for a second will do us better?

Consider what kind of a manager Ozzie is. He is probably on their asses every second of every day. Maybe it was breading the tension in the clubhouse they don't need. So, he takes the day off. Lets the players breathe and collect themselves. They're professionals guys, one day of baseball practice won't change that. Professionals get messed up mentally more than anything else, and this could be what Ozzie is trying to attack right now.

Very good point, I hope you're right and it works.

Tragg
04-18-2010, 10:46 PM
You bring up a valid argument, but maybe an approach where the team breathes for a second will do us better?

Consider what kind of a manager Ozzie is. He is probably on their asses every second of every day. Maybe it was breading the tension in the clubhouse they don't need. So, he takes the day off. Lets the players breathe and collect themselves. They're professionals guys, one day of baseball practice won't change that. Professionals get messed up mentally more than anything else, and this could be what Ozzie is trying to attack right now.
I can see that. Give the players a day off....cool.
But the manager doesn't need a day off this early. It's not all mental fatigue or trying to hard...there's film to study and all sorts of stuff he could do.

soltrain21
04-18-2010, 10:51 PM
You bring up a valid argument, but maybe an approach where the team breathes for a second will do us better?

Consider what kind of a manager Ozzie is. He is probably on their asses every second of every day. Maybe it was breading the tension in the clubhouse they don't need. So, he takes the day off. Lets the players breathe and collect themselves. They're professionals guys, one day of baseball practice won't change that. Professionals get messed up mentally more than anything else, and this could be what Ozzie is trying to attack right now.

World's smartest manager.

Dibbs
04-18-2010, 11:00 PM
You bring up a valid argument, but maybe an approach where the team breathes for a second will do us better?

Consider what kind of a manager Ozzie is. He is probably on their asses every second of every day. Maybe it was breading the tension in the clubhouse they don't need. So, he takes the day off. Lets the players breathe and collect themselves. They're professionals guys, one day of baseball practice won't change that. Professionals get messed up mentally more than anything else, and this could be what Ozzie is trying to attack right now.

I really doubt Ozzie is smart enough to put any thought into the guys needing a break. He just wants to go to Miami and relax for a day.

However, maybe he should be studying up a little bit on the Rays. Nothing wrong with putting a little more effort in at work when things aren't going too well.

masloan
04-19-2010, 07:31 AM
There are two things with Quentin, the first is his health, will he ever stay healthy enough to put up those kind of numbers? The second thing is that there has only been one year where Quentin has had more than two hundred plate appearances and an OPS over .800, let alone .900, and that was 2008. There is a strong possibility that 2008 might be an anomaly. Or he might never be able to get back to that level. This is really a make or break year for him.

Exactly! But we should all keep focusing on Pierre, Kotsay, Teahen, and Jones...

bunty_doghunter
04-19-2010, 03:22 PM
Ozzie according to the Tribune is going home to watch his son play in high school.

Lip
That should go fine as long as Ozzie doesn't try to coach them.

goon
04-19-2010, 05:33 PM
Exactly! But we should all keep focusing on Pierre, Kotsay, Teahen, and Jones...

The problem with Jones is that he hasn't been in the lineup enough.