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View Full Version : Do you approve or disapprove of the job Ozzie Guillen is doing?


Viva Medias B's
04-17-2010, 08:17 PM
It is probably time to gauge the pulse of WSIers. First and foremost, this is not a "Should Ozzie Guillen be fired?" poll. Let me repeat that: This is not a "Should Ozzie Guillen be fired?" poll. It is too early for that. However, I am simply asking you, my fellow WSIers, if you currently approve or disapprove of the job Ozzie Guillen is doing. After today's loss, I can guess the results would not be in Guillen's favor. However, if the White Sox go on a 10-game winning streak henceforth and catapult themselves into first place, I can imagine a poll like this could produce a different result.

Please keep the discussion clean and cordial so that you don't land this thread you-know-where and yourself in the WSI Penalty Box.

HomeFish
04-17-2010, 08:26 PM
Ozzie is mishandling the lineup/DH platoon and has mishandled the bullpen from the day he started. I don't think he deserves to be fired though.

russ99
04-17-2010, 08:53 PM
Other than keeping Kotsay in the 5-spot despite his poor hitting, he's still doing a good job.

I especially like the aggressive calls for steals, hit and run and moving runners up this year. It doesn't always work out, but Ozzie's doing his best to get the team going.

And despite what some people think, he's not the person responsible for acquiring players.

MarkZ35
04-17-2010, 08:57 PM
I don't necessarily dislike how he's doing managing so far this year but more how he some how took over as the co-GM this winter and insisted he had the team he wanted. As we all know that offense has been pretty brutal for the most part.

JB98
04-17-2010, 09:01 PM
Disapprove, because there has been too much tinkering with the lineup this year.

However, I don't think Ozzie should be fired. I'm more upset with the GM.

thomas35forever
04-17-2010, 09:41 PM
Disapprove, because there has been too much tinkering with the lineup this year.

However, I don't think Ozzie should be fired. I'm more upset with the GM.
I agree with most of this post. If there's anything to be upset with KW about, it's that he practically ceded his power in building a team. Right now, we're seeing why Ozzie will never be a good GM.

Domeshot17
04-17-2010, 09:53 PM
I am pretty much ready for a major overhaul. I am sick of Ozzie thinking he can win the AL with an NL team. I also am sick of Kenny sitting on the sideline doing nothing because it is what Ozzie wants. KW is Ozzie's boss. If Jayson Nix came to Ozzie and said start me everyday over Beckham because I think I am better, and Ozzie listened, it would be the same lack of judgement.

Kenny has great ability as a GM, but he is very content to build .500 teams and hope they over achieve. Ever since 2006, our teams are constantly a player or 2 away from being real contenders. Ozzie seems to have lost his team, and his attitude and wild rants are just highly ineffective anymore. On top of it the over loyalty to guys like Walker is bad.

I think Kenny can be a good GM, I think Ozzie can be a good manager, but we have been a losing baseball team for 3.5 seasons. We had a great magical run in 2005, but its over. The inability to sustain winning points to the fact it might have just been a fluke, a miraculous blessing of career years on the mound, in the pen, and timely hitting by a group of guys who many can't find work anymore. I would like to be proven wrong, but I am a Sox fan first, and if winning means a new manager, GM, or anyone else, so be it.

WhiteSox5187
04-17-2010, 10:04 PM
Disapprove, because there has been too much tinkering with the lineup this year.

However, I don't think Ozzie should be fired. I'm more upset with the GM.

Normally I'd agree with you but this is the team Ozzie wanted, so he should get more blame than Kenny I think. I "approve" but I am very close to disapproving and am very close to calling for his firing.

russ99
04-17-2010, 10:05 PM
I am pretty much ready for a major overhaul. I am sick of Ozzie thinking he can win the AL with an NL team. I also am sick of Kenny sitting on the sideline doing nothing because it is what Ozzie wants. KW is Ozzie's boss. If Jayson Nix came to Ozzie and said start me everyday over Beckham because I think I am better, and Ozzie listened, it would be the same lack of judgement.

Kenny has great ability as a GM, but he is very content to build .500 teams and hope they over achieve. Ever since 2006, our teams are constantly a player or 2 away from being real contenders. Ozzie seems to have lost his team, and his attitude and wild rants are just highly ineffective anymore. On top of it the over loyalty to guys like Walker is bad.

I think Kenny can be a good GM, I think Ozzie can be a good manager, but we have been a losing baseball team for 3.5 seasons. We had a great magical run in 2005, but its over. The inability to sustain winning points to the fact it might have just been a fluke, a miraculous blessing of career years on the mound, in the pen, and timely hitting by a group of guys who many can't find work anymore. I would like to be proven wrong, but I am a Sox fan first, and if winning means a new manager, GM, or anyone else, so be it.

I don't want to turn this in to a GM thread, but the Sox have limited resources. They were able to spend more than anyone thought this year to push us up to $105M, including getting Pierre and Jones for cents on the dollar.

If we're 1-2 players away from being contenders, that's because the real contenders for the World Series have payrolls over $120M.

We might have been able to get those bats this offseason but it would have meant Jenks being non-tendered, and trading away one or both of Danks and Floyd. Kenny couldn't add significant payroll without cutting payroll, so he did what he could.

Besides, what did Ozzie really do in regards to the roster? He said he wanted more athletic players and said that going after Thome was not a good idea. Did he say, please give me Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones so I can be handcuffed by a non-producing lineup?

Slappy
04-17-2010, 10:05 PM
Can anyone find that quote by Ozzie during ST where he said something like "You're gonna see me do some things this season and think, "What the heck is he doing?!"

Yeah...

Corlose 15
04-17-2010, 10:09 PM
I don't want to turn this in to a GM thread, but the Sox have limited resources. They were able to spend more than anyone thought this year to push us up to $105M, including getting Pierre and Jones for cents on the dollar.

If we're 1-2 players away from being contenders, that's because the real contenders for the World Series have payrolls over $120M.

We might have been able to get those bats this offseason but it would have meant Jenks being non-tendered, and trading away one or both of Danks and Floyd. Kenny couldn't add significant payroll without cutting payroll, so he did what he could.

Besides, what did Ozzie really do in regards to the roster? He said he wanted more athletic players and said that going after Thome was not a good idea. Did he say, please give me Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones so I can be handcuffed by a non-producing lineup?

What's funny is that it isn't Jones' fault that the lineup isn't producing.

Pierre, Beckham, Quentin, and Konerko aren't hitting.

Tragg
04-17-2010, 10:09 PM
And despite what some people think, he's not the person responsible for acquiring players.

Yes, this is ultimately Williams' mess.

JB98
04-17-2010, 10:09 PM
Normally I'd agree with you but this is the team Ozzie wanted, so he should get more blame than Kenny I think. I "approve" but I am very close to disapproving and am very close to calling for his firing.

Kenny is Ozzie's boss. Not the other way around.

Ozzie should have input on the roster, but he should not have the final say. Shame on KW for having the manager do his job for him.

It's KW's job to assemble the roster. It's Ozzie's job to manage it. This roster has major flaws. That's KW's fault.

skobabe8
04-17-2010, 10:14 PM
I disapprove of the job the offense is doing.

LITTLE NELL
04-18-2010, 06:05 AM
.205 team batting average, worst in MLB, fire the players.

Lillian
04-18-2010, 06:55 AM
Here is an interesting stat:

The Sox have allowed 48 runs to date.
But they have scored 49 runs to date.

They are just finding ways to lose a lot of close games.
Since they aren't hitting, but also aren't giving up many runs, I suspect it has something to do with the conditions in which they've been playing.
Except for the games in Toronto's dome, most games have been played in pretty cold weather.
It may just all be a consequence of typical Midwest Spring baseball weather.

Our hitters will hit better and our pitching will not be this good, especially the bullpen.

Viva Medias B's
04-18-2010, 07:18 AM
So far, as we see, the voting is going about 3-1 disapproval. In spite of how we have started, I'm surprised it's that wide. I thought it would be closer.

southside rocks
04-18-2010, 07:42 AM
I disapprove of the job the offense is doing.

Absolutely agree.

I also do not approve of the job, overall, that the defense is doing.

In a poll that asked "do you approve or disapprove of the job the White Sox roster players are doing?" I would vote 'disapprove.'

Their shortcomings and failures shouldn't be laid at the feet of anyone but the players themselves. IMO, a good number of them should return their paychecks until they start earning them.

CLR01
04-18-2010, 07:47 AM
Here is an interesting stat:

The Sox have allowed 48 runs to date.
But they have scored 49 runs to date.

They are just finding ways to lose a lot of close games.
Since they aren't hitting, but also aren't giving up many runs, I suspect it has something to do with the conditions in which they've been playing.
Except for the games in Toronto's dome, most games have been played in pretty cold weather.
It may just all be a consequence of typical Midwest Spring baseball weather.

Our hitters will hit better and our pitching will not be this good, especially the bullpen.

It's too bad the Sox are the only ones who ever have to play in the cold.
It's almost not fair.

CLR01
04-18-2010, 07:48 AM
Absolutely agree.

I also do not approve of the job, overall, that the defense is doing.

In a poll that asked "do you approve or disapprove of the job the White Sox roster players are doing?" I would vote 'disapprove.'

Their shortcomings and failures shouldn't be laid at the feet of anyone but the players themselves. IMO, a good number of them should return their paychecks until they start earning them.


SO should Ozzie and Walker.

kufram
04-18-2010, 08:09 AM
I can't approve of anybody's perfromance when we're in last place, but Ozzie is not the reason we find ourselves there. For some reason, though, I like this group. I wish we'd kept a proven AL leadoff hitter who was playing for his life last year and did the job (by the way he's doing pretty good so far this year), but I'm not anti Juan Pierre. The law of averages says our hitters will improve and there is a lot of time to make up for a bad start. I actually think the pitching will get better. Peavy will become Peavy and Freddy will either improve or be replaced. I can't really fault the bullpen yet and even think we can weather it if Jenks fades.

SO, the jury is out on the team but I can't blame Ozzie for the performance. I guess that means I have to be in the approve of Ozzie camp. I'd like his verbal to tone down a notch sometimes, though.

tsoxman
04-18-2010, 08:20 AM
Kenny is Ozzie's boss. Not the other way around.

Ozzie should have input on the roster, but he should not have the final say. Shame on KW for having the manager do his job for him.

It's KW's job to assemble the roster. It's Ozzie's job to manage it. This roster has major flaws. That's KW's fault.
One of my biggest fears after the Sox won in 2005 was that both of these guys would get de facto 'lifetime contracts' and that it would be close to impossible to remove either if the organization were to flounder.
The payroll on this team is high, and the results are not very good.

As an in game strategist, Ozzie is a totally clueless, but he was given a flawed roster to work with. Just because the manager asks for a certain type of team and player, does not mean you oblige in the literal sense. It is the GM's job to put together a roster that win can compete for a championship, and not just barely eack their way to a divisional title. To invest so much in two players last season (Peavy and Rios) and follow those transactions up with budget moves like Teahen, Kotsay etc is a complete joke.

Kenny and Ozzie get very indignant when they hear negative fan reaction but they forget that it's the fan that has to pay for their mistakes.

southside rocks
04-18-2010, 09:15 AM
SO should Ozzie and Walker.

I think that's nonsense.

Until someone can show that the manager and any of the coaches are failing to do their jobs, failing to prepare the players for games, then I don't see why their jobs would be at risk. And yes, I've read the endless rants on WSI over the years -- lots of years, this is far from a new situation -- about it. Piffle. Major-league baseball players are grown men, generally VERY well-compensated for their work, and they absolutely do not and should not rely on coaches in order to do their jobs with proficiency. A coach might make the difference between a player batting .276 and .298, but when a player bats .219, it's not the coach who's choking, it's the player.

Really, you think that the Astros made it to the WS in 2005 because Phil Garner was a baseball genius and his coaching staff the same? I think it was because all the players worked up to their potential and played together as a team. On a Little League team, I'd credit the coaching for that. On a MLB team, I credit the players.

southside rocks
04-18-2010, 09:16 AM
It's too bad the Sox are the only ones who ever have to play in the cold.
It's almost not fair.

I don't understand why the cold weather never has an adverse effect on the other team on the field. Are they lizards?

SI1020
04-18-2010, 09:33 AM
I think that's nonsense.

Until someone can show that the manager and any of the coaches are failing to do their jobs, failing to prepare the players for games, then I don't see why their jobs would be at risk. And yes, I've read the endless rants on WSI over the years -- lots of years, this is far from a new situation -- about it. Piffle. Major-league baseball players are grown men, generally VERY well-compensated for their work, and they absolutely do not and should not rely on coaches in order to do their jobs with proficiency. A coach might make the difference between a player batting .276 and .298, but when a player bats .219, it's not the coach who's choking, it's the player.

Really, you think that the Astros made it to the WS in 2005 because Phil Garner was a baseball genius and his coaching staff the same? I think it was because all the players worked up to their potential and played together as a team. On a Little League team, I'd credit the coaching for that. On a MLB team, I credit the players. Why have managers and coaches then? If you're going to have them, then never fire anyone?

soxrme
04-18-2010, 09:33 AM
I disapprove of the job the offense is doing.

I agree, hopefully we can get it going.

Craig Grebeck
04-18-2010, 09:35 AM
The length of Pierre's leash is reason enough to fire Ozzie. What a joke.

dickallen15
04-18-2010, 09:37 AM
I don't understand why the cold weather never has an adverse effect on the other team on the field. Are they lizards?
It does have an effect. Its not like the Sox are getting blown out, in fact they have led in most of the games this year even with the pathetic numbers they are putting up. I believe they have actually outscored their opponents.

HangWiffum
04-18-2010, 10:05 AM
Other than keeping Kotsay in the 5-spot despite his poor hitting, he's still doing a good job.


still think he's doing a good job now that Kotsay is in the 3 hole?

tick53
04-18-2010, 10:40 AM
Disapprove. I'm glad it's not a "fire Ozzie" poll but his pigheadedness will soon get him there.

Dibbs
04-18-2010, 10:41 AM
I would hate to see what Ozzie would have to do to have the other 30% disapprove of the job he is doing.

g0g0
04-18-2010, 01:16 PM
Too early to see the results of Ozzie's experiment. Hopefully the players will prove him right. When it's all said and done, these guys need to hit. Whether it's singles or homers - I don't care. Get on base and drive in those runs!

soxinem1
04-18-2010, 01:26 PM
Disapprove, because there has been too much tinkering with the lineup this year.

However, I don't think Ozzie should be fired. I'm more upset with the GM.

Ditto, though this is the roster he wanted. Teahen at DH today takes the cake.

KW should have put his foot down, or up Ozzie's ass, for even thinking of taking this roster to start the season.

voodoochile
04-18-2010, 01:35 PM
Ditto, though this is the roster he wanted. Teahen at DH today takes the cake.

KW should have put his foot down, or up Ozzie's ass, for even thinking of taking this roster to start the season.

And again, how is the roster Ozzie's fault? I'm not saying I'm happy with the results so far, but you act like Ozzie signed the players and told KW not to do anything more even though we have direct evidence that KW made overtures to at least 2 other hitters this off season.

soxinem1
04-18-2010, 01:54 PM
And again, how is the roster Ozzie's fault? I'm not saying I'm happy with the results so far, but you act like Ozzie signed the players and told KW not to do anything more even though we have direct evidence that KW made overtures to at least 2 other hitters this off season.

So you are saying that Ozzie did not want this 'versatile and speedy' collection of position players and not even semi-regular DH? C'mon!!!

voodoochile
04-18-2010, 02:09 PM
So you are saying that Ozzie did not want this 'versatile and speedy' collection of position players and not even semi-regular DH? C'mon!!!

Which has nothing to do with the point I made. Ozzie didn't build the roster. KW did pursue both Matsui and Damon this past winter. You honestly think if OG had Matsui or Damon they'd be riding the bench in favor of Kotsay? :rolleyes:

Oh and if Quentin, Beckham and Konerko continue to suck at the plate, yeah, this team is screwed. I don't think that's going to happen and am pleased that Rios and Teahen are justifying their spots on the team for the most part.

Tragg
04-18-2010, 02:16 PM
Ozzie didn't build the roster, but this is the roster that Ozzie wanted.
He's the one who likes mediocre/bad veterans with good attitudes; Williams is spending a mill here, 2 mill there on mediocre players and utility level talent instead of equal, but YOUNG players of similar ability available at league minimum, because that's what Ozzie wants. And that money adds up.

And yet, Williams is the one putting this junk together.

Williams and Guillen are a team.

And tearing this thing down won't be easy. Trading vets for young talent is not a strenght of Williams; and managing young players isn't a strength of Guillen

russ99
04-18-2010, 02:17 PM
I would hate to see what Ozzie would have to do to have the other 30% disapprove of the job he is doing.

Exactly what is Ozzie doing to have 70% disapprove?

Seems that group is in disapproval of the makeup of the roster, which is not Ozzie's responsibility, even though he's the convenient scapegoat for not wanting Thome back.

Let me put it another way. What is Ozzie doing as manager of the team that's so horrible in working with the players he has?

russ99
04-18-2010, 02:21 PM
Ozzie didn't build the roster, but this is the roster that Ozzie wanted.
He's the one who likes mediocre/bad veterans with good attitudes; Williams is spending a mill here, 2 mill there on mediocre players and utility level talent instead of equal, but YOUNG players of similar ability available at league minimum, because that's what Ozzie wants. And that money adds up.

And yet, Williams is the one putting this junk together.

Williams and Guillen are a team.

And tearing this thing down won't be easy. Trading vets for young talent is not a strenght of Williams; and managing young players isn't a strength of Guillen

You make it sound like all the money spent on players Kenny brought in could have netted superstars. Please, show me who we could have brought in the the same salary that would be so much better, and let's be realistic here. One player for four positions won't work.

2010 Salaries:
Pierre, Juan- $3,000,000 (after cash sent in deal)
Teahen, Mark - $2,750,000
Kotsay, Mark - $1,500,000
Vizquel, Omar - $1,375,000
Jones, Andruw - $500,000
Castro, Ramon- $800,000

And for reference, here's what certain FA's got:

Holliday - $17,000,000
Figgins - $8,000,000
Damon - $8,000,000
Bay - $6,500,000
Matsui - $6,000,000
N. Johnson - $5,500,000

soxlady8
04-18-2010, 02:23 PM
objectively vote here ...
however, I do accuse Ozzie of having some real "brain farts"
when managing as of late ---

Chrisaway
04-18-2010, 02:24 PM
I like what he's doing but I think he lacks the personnel to do it.

Lillian
04-18-2010, 02:35 PM
It's too bad the Sox are the only ones who ever have to play in the cold.
It's almost not fair.

Although you didn't put that in teal, I assume you meant it sarcastically.
I'm not excusing anything, just pointing out that apparently neither the Sox nor their opponents have been scoring many runs.

Lillian
04-18-2010, 02:58 PM
Unless there is some good reason why Jones was not in the lineup again today, I have to vote "disapproval". It's just getting more ridiculous every day, as the evidence continues to validate the point which many of us have been making. How you bench your current best hitter, in favor of a guy of Kotsay's stature, when your team is severely challenged on offense, is just beyond belief.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 03:07 PM
Russ brings up a good point...if you want players in their prime with fewer risks than you have to pay for it.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2010, 03:13 PM
Russ brings up a good point...if you want players in their prime with fewer risks than you have to pay for it.

Lip

Yes, but there is also another model.

If the Sox want to put lots of resources into their rotation and pen (which they have done) and build around a core of a few veteran position players, they need to have a minor league system that can continually produce talented position players who play fundamentally sound baseball: good defense, and good at executing situational hitting when appropriate and called upon to do so.

But the Sox minor league system has not done so.

MarySwiss
04-18-2010, 03:15 PM
i disapprove of the job the offense is doing.
+1

Konerko05
04-18-2010, 03:45 PM
The length of Pierre's leash is reason enough to fire Ozzie. What a joke.

I've yet to see Pierre hit a linedrive.

JB98
04-18-2010, 03:57 PM
I've yet to see Pierre hit a linedrive.

Pierre hit a screaming liner today. Sizemore made a sensational diving catch on him.

But, yeah, Pierre has stunk.

A. Cavatica
04-18-2010, 06:49 PM
I'm looking forward to the first "Fire Ozzie?" poll. I will be voting Yes.

TomBradley72
04-19-2010, 08:10 AM
I think this is Ozzie's worst "in game decision" stretch I've seen in a while. He says he wants an aggressive team...but when Pierre leads off an inning getting on base...he's not running, too many times, Beckham is bunting...so Ozzie is not pressuring the other team's defense. Jones should be in the line up every day, at least at DH if they are concerned about durability.

masloan
04-19-2010, 08:19 AM
I have never been a huge Ozzie fan. I think he is a decent manager, but I do not think he is something special. However, I find it hard to blame this start on Ozzie. Can someone please tell me what he is supposed to do when almost every hitter is struggling.

Should he be able to make Beckham get in a runner from 3rd with less than 2 out? He is currently 0-4, with 1 BB and 0 RBI in 5 PA in that situation so far this season.

Should he be able to make Quentin hit over .200 and not ground in to double plays in key spots? Quentin is currently on pace for .200 and 50 GIDPs.

I know its not only them. Pierre is starting to hit now but he still has not been great. Alexei is hot now, but struggled at the start. AJ has been awful. Depsite the home runs Konerko is hitting .214. Should Ozzie be able to make them hit when he is struggling?

It is not always the manager. it is not always the hitting coach. I completely agree with Ozzie that Walker should not be the one blamed when AJ, Konerko or other veterans struggle. It is just a cop out by fans who love their favorite players.

Do I think Kotsay in the 3 hole is a good idea? Absolutely not. As many others here feel the same, I would play Jones every day and have kotsay due the role he does pretty well; utility player.

However, that decision, and a few other questionable ones are not the reason the Sox are 4-9.

mcfish
04-19-2010, 08:31 AM
It is not always the manager. it is not always the hitting coach. I completely agree with Ozzie that Walker should not be the one blamed when AJ, Konerko or other veterans struggle. It is just a cop out by fans who love their favorite players.
This isn't a new phenomena. The offense has been subpar the better part of the past 3 seasons - and doesn't ever seem to show improvement. Players come in with decent career numbers and underperform consistently. What exactly should be Walker be accountable for if not the trend in performance of the offense?

If it's because Walker simply doesn't have talented players to work with, then blame Kenny instead. But either way this is not based on just this season and it's not something that can be placed solely on player performance.

Oh, and Ozzie is the point of this thread... He doesn't put players in the best spots to succeed, so I do not approve of the job he is doing. Kotsay in the 3 and 5 hole is not going to be the best spot for him. Mackowiak, Erstad, etc. - there is a full list of players that Ozzie put in less than ideal spots and they failed. I feel that he's never been good with the bullpen and seems to be getting worse and more predictable.

TheVulture
04-19-2010, 11:39 AM
Kotsay batting 3rd? :scratch: Ozzie has lost his mind.

Hitmen77
04-19-2010, 10:49 PM
Here is an interesting stat:

The Sox have allowed 48 runs to date.
But they have scored 49 runs to date.

Perhaps those numbers are skewed by the 6-0 and 11-1 wins.

They are just finding ways to lose a lot of close games.
Since they aren't hitting, but also aren't giving up many runs, I suspect it has something to do with the conditions in which they've been playing.
Except for the games in Toronto's dome, most games have been played in pretty cold weather.
It may just all be a consequence of typical Midwest Spring baseball weather.



1) Aside from a couple of games, it really hasn't been that cold out this spring.

2) I really hate this excuse that the Sox seem to toss out year after year. For some reason the cold weather makes them suck but the other teams are magically immune to this.

Yes, the hitting will improve but in the end this team just isn't very good. Ozzie told us all winter that we didn't need a DH and rotating people like Kotsay in would be just fine. It didn't take long for this to blow up in his face and now we're facing a long painful summer of lousy baseball.

Lillian
04-20-2010, 07:07 AM
Perhaps those numbers are skewed by the 6-0 and 11-1 wins.

1) Aside from a couple of games, it really hasn't been that cold out this spring.

2) I really hate this excuse that the Sox seem to toss out year after year. For some reason the cold weather makes them suck but the other teams are magically immune to this.

Yes, the hitting will improve but in the end this team just isn't very good. Ozzie told us all winter that we didn't need a DH and rotating people like Kotsay in would be just fine. It didn't take long for this to blow up in his face and now we're facing a long painful summer of lousy baseball.

Well, the point that I was trying to make was that they had lost a lot of close games. When I wrote it, 6 of their 8 losses were by 2 runs or less.

My point about the weather is simply that I think it accounts for our better than normal pitching, as well as our worse than normal hitting.
Spring weather in the Midwest is just not good weather in which to hit.
The one game in which the Sox scored in double digits was in the dome.