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View Full Version : *Official* 4-15 At least a split beats getting swept in Toronto postgame thread


Frater Perdurabo
04-15-2010, 09:54 PM
Discuss it here...

KnightSox
04-15-2010, 09:55 PM
It could have been worse up there.

Tragg
04-15-2010, 09:55 PM
The game was punted in the 3rd inning for some reason. And if not the 3rd, for sure the 4th.
Has Lucy played himself into a roster spot? Any need for Castro?

WhiteSox5187
04-15-2010, 09:56 PM
Have we ever won on these Jackie Robinson days?

Frater Perdurabo
04-15-2010, 09:56 PM
The game was punted in the 3rd inning for some reason. And if not the 3rd, for sure the 4th.
Has Lucy played himself into a roster spot? Any need for Castro?

How is Lucy defensively? If he's better than Castro defensively, to me it's a no-brainer.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-15-2010, 09:56 PM
Eh. Freddy didn't really have it today... you can't really blame the offense for not exactly busting their butts for every last run. I think if the games was say... 4-0, the Sox probably would have pushed for more runs because they'd have a legitimate chance. I'm fine with the loss... I'm not going to take anything away from yesterday.

Bullpen was great, Alexei got a HR... good day without a win. Oh well.

JB98
04-15-2010, 09:57 PM
Only five hits tonight. A lot of good pitches to hit fouled off. Bad offense. They still have to hit home runs to score.

Some solid bullpen work from Santos, Putz and Linebrink kept this game from getting too out of hand.

JermaineDye05
04-15-2010, 09:58 PM
Randy Williams is clearly the weakest link in this bullpen right now. I really hope the Sox have a back-up plan ready, be it Aquino or some other lefty. I don't see Williams lasting that much longer, not the way he's been throwing.

Frater Perdurabo
04-15-2010, 09:59 PM
Need to go win the series in Cleveland.

soltrain21
04-15-2010, 09:59 PM
Eh. Freddy didn't really have it today... you can't really blame the offense for not exactly busting their butts for every last run. I think if the games was say... 4-0, the Sox probably would have pushed for more runs because they'd have a legitimate chance. I'm fine with the loss... I'm not going to take anything away from yesterday.

Bullpen was great, Alexei got a HR... good day without a win. Oh well.

Um. Sure you can.

JermaineDye05
04-15-2010, 10:00 PM
Um. Sure you can.

We also have to tip our hats to the Jays outfield. They made some real good plays and made a lot of tough plays look easy.

LoveYourSuit
04-15-2010, 10:00 PM
Sox bullpen looks really damn good.

Too bad the offense showed its true colors tonight.

WhiteSox5187
04-15-2010, 10:02 PM
Have we ever won on these Jackie Robinson days?

We won in 2008 evidently.

Boondock Saint
04-15-2010, 10:05 PM
Sox bullpen looks really damn good.

Too bad the offense showed its true colors tonight.

The bullpen would look that much better if we had a guy that could throw some garbage innings to save their arms for some meaningful innings.

JermaineDye05
04-15-2010, 10:06 PM
Sox bullpen looks really damn good.

Too bad the offense showed its true colors tonight.

Yeah, Donny Lucy and Jayson Nix in the line-up really showed this line-ups true colors. . .

The sad thing about that attempted smart statement is that Lucy was hitting the ball really hard in each ab. I think we can all breathe a little bit easier now with him.

We split a series in Toronto, I'll take that.

This team looks like it's turning the corner. Let's go sweep Cleveland like we should have done last week.

BadBobbyJenks
04-15-2010, 10:07 PM
Um so we still need to see more of Freddy, but I am tired of insert random leftie just mowing right through us.

soxlady8
04-15-2010, 10:08 PM
bi-polar !!!


However a split beats no wins there in Toronto !!

GoGoCrede
04-15-2010, 10:09 PM
Honestly, a split was better than I thought we'd do, so yay.

HangWiffum
04-15-2010, 10:09 PM
i'm just concerned that in the majority of games our starters have throws alot of pitches early in the game and haven't gone as deep as this team will need them to.

Frontman
04-15-2010, 10:11 PM
Yeah, Donny Lucy and Jayson Nix in the line-up really showed this line-ups true colors. . .

The sad thing about that attempted smart statement is that Lucy was hitting the ball really hard in each ab. I think we can all breathe a little bit easier now with him.

We split a series in Toronto, I'll take that.

This team looks like it's turning the corner. Let's go sweep Cleveland like we should have done last week.

Well said. Yes; the team still has a bit of work to do; but I do see the progress.

I however, want the progress finished as soon as possible. Enough of these wasted nights!

Lip Man 1
04-15-2010, 10:11 PM
The "home run or nothing" inconsistent offense shows up again tonight.

Oh well like others have said, it beats getting swept out of the Rogers Center.

Lip

JermaineDye05
04-15-2010, 10:13 PM
Um so we still need to see more of Freddy, but I am tired of insert random leftie just mowing right through us.

We did well against the insert random lefty on Monday.

Lip Man 1
04-15-2010, 10:18 PM
For those of you scoring at home this makes it six times out of 10 games, the Sox have scored three runs or less.

Lip

PhillipsBubba
04-15-2010, 10:25 PM
I guess we just have to tip our caps...:scratch:

Blueprint1
04-15-2010, 10:26 PM
I was hoping that we would win a series for the first time this year. Need to start being more consistently.

johnnyg83
04-15-2010, 10:30 PM
pretty staggering bullpen K numbers ... and 15ks total.

Tragg
04-15-2010, 10:32 PM
Um so we still need to see more of Freddy, but I am tired of insert random leftie just mowing right through us.
Well we saw too much of him tonight.
and I believe that the first hitter Williams faced was a righty...that's just ridiculous.
If our pen's so good, let's use it before the starter pitches the game away, like he did tonight.

Toronto is a 2nd division team, their current record notwithstanding. 2-2 against them isn't that great if we're a good team.

PhillipsBubba
04-15-2010, 10:35 PM
For those of you scoring at home this makes it six times out of 10 games, the Sox have scored three runs or less.

Lip

Lip...as presently structured...do you see this team having the ability to win 10 or 12 in a row?

guillensdisciple
04-15-2010, 10:35 PM
Not as mad about this loss as I would be about others.

This bullpen is a monster, and if this continues it is a good sign of things to come.

BadBobbyJenks
04-15-2010, 10:39 PM
Well we saw too much of him tonight.
and I believe that the first hitter Williams faced was a righty...that's just ridiculous.
If our pen's so good, let's use it before the starter pitches the game away, like he did tonight.

Toronto is a 2nd division team, their current record notwithstanding. 2-2 against them isn't that great if we're a good team.

Well we don't have a long man right now, that is a problem of taking out Freddy in the third.

JermaineDye05
04-15-2010, 10:40 PM
Not as mad about this loss as I would be about others.

This bullpen is a monster, and if this continues it is a good sign of things to come.

Sergio Santos has looked great and Matt Thornton damn near unhittable. Lost in all that is the 3rd guy, Putz, who has looked damn good as well even without that 97 mph fastball.

I was skeptical when I first heard Cowley say that Santos could be the closer of the future but with the way he's throwing the ball right now, that's certainly a possibility.

Tragg
04-15-2010, 10:46 PM
Well we don't have a long man right now, that is a problem of taking out Freddy in the third.
I guess you're right; but tht's not going to change unless we exchange Williams for someone in AAA.

JermaineDye05
04-15-2010, 10:47 PM
I guess you're right; but tht's not going to change unless we exchange Williams for someone in AAA.

I'm guessing Torres would be first in line for the long man. No way they waste Hudson with that role.

GoGoCrede
04-15-2010, 11:01 PM
Carl weighs in. (http://www.smellslikemascot.com/2010/04/lineup-lottery.html)

ilsox7
04-15-2010, 11:12 PM
Carl weighs in. (http://www.smellslikemascot.com/2010/04/lineup-lottery.html)

Interesting that Ozzie writes with his left hand.

konerko 14
04-15-2010, 11:17 PM
I'm happy with this series, especially with how we have done there before, now lets go get em in Cleveland

Hegewisch
04-15-2010, 11:24 PM
No comment on tonight. So far it seems, every night brings something different.............:scratch: I wonder if a problem is they have not had a day off to regroup in over a week ???????:scratch::nocomment:

JermaineDye05
04-15-2010, 11:26 PM
No comment on tonight. So far it seems, every night brings something different.............:scratch: I wonder if a problem is they have not had a day off to regroup in over a week ???????:scratch::nocomment:

Another reason why the day off after the 1st game of the season is stupid.

veeter
04-15-2010, 11:30 PM
If Pierre and Beckham can get hot at the same time, the Sox will start rolling IMO. With Quentin, Konerko, Jones and Rios (who has hit the ball hard consistently since the bell rang) behind them, they'll score plenty of runs for this pitching staff. For me, I don't care if they score every single run, via the homerun. Just win baby.

guillensdisciple
04-15-2010, 11:32 PM
I like this gamethread. Usually, it gets a lot worse after a loss. Today it's tame.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-15-2010, 11:58 PM
I like this gamethread. Usually, it gets a lot worse after a loss. Today it's tame.Ya, the worst comments are like... "WTH? Be more consistent out there, I'm confused!" :tongue:

guillensdisciple
04-16-2010, 12:04 AM
Ya, the worst comments are like... "WTH? Be more consistent out there, I'm confused!" :tongue:


That's innocent compared to the, OMGXLAR WE ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE, WE SUCK REBUILD!!

Or DH's sucking, or Teahen being horrible, or someone calling for someone's head. I guess us WSI'ers go the way of the weather. Today was too good of a day to waste our time getting all rile up on stuff like this.

:D:

Slappy
04-16-2010, 12:45 AM
Fire Greg Walker

JermaineDye05
04-16-2010, 01:02 AM
Fire Rick Hahn.





I thought I'd mix it up a bit.

Craig Grebeck
04-16-2010, 01:14 AM
This team has sucked more often than it has looked good. I'm worried, but I was worried before the season.

WhiteSox5187
04-16-2010, 02:17 AM
This team has sucked more often than it has looked good. I'm worried, but I was worried before the season.

We are currently one game back of Boston in the loss column and have scored more runs than we have allowed (which is also more than Boston). I don't watch ESPN, but I don't see anyone here freaking out over Boston's slow start. It is WAY too early to be worried. Mild concern should be expressed, but worried? C'mon, Andruw Jones, Paul Konerko, Carlos Quentin and even Mark Teahan all have an OPS (I still think that that is a silly stat btw) over .900 and Rios has been hitting the ball hard. Offensively the only guys who look lost are Pierre (which is cause for concern) and Alexei (who has ALWAYS started out slow). The bullpen has been solid as has the rotation minus two bad outtings by Peavy and Garcia. There is a lot to suggest that this team might wind up figuring it out.

doublem23
04-16-2010, 02:20 AM
Another reason why the day off after the 1st game of the season is stupid.

Its just to ensure that the Home Opener can go off without a hitch. Obviously a place like Toronto wouldn't need it.

doublem23
04-16-2010, 02:20 AM
It could have been worse up there.

Yeah, we hadn't won in Toronto since 2007 before this series, so let's just cut our losses and get the **** back in America.

hawkjt
04-16-2010, 02:36 AM
Freddie had absolutely nothing out there tonite...we need better from him ..at least 2 of 3 starts have to be decent.

I was concerned about Eveland, he gave us trouble last time altho we beat him. As hawk said, leftys with a changeup have just killed us for the last 3-4 years..Santana syndrome.

Get to Cleveland, join hands with the Bulls, and beat the tribe and cavs,chicago teams...!

Sox game on saturday starts at 3:05, Bulls games vs Cavs starts at 2:00...will there be any tribe fans in the house?

pudge
04-16-2010, 02:41 AM
I will say, this is exactly what I was concerned about with Freddy - if he's not pinpoint, he is going to get KILLED. He has no velocity. Major league hitters are going to tear him up. If we can get a .500 record out of him it will be a miracle, I'd take it.

KMcMahon817
04-16-2010, 03:25 AM
Randy Williams is clearly the weakest link in this bullpen right now. I really hope the Sox have a back-up plan ready, be it Aquino or some other lefty. I don't see Williams lasting that much longer, not the way he's been throwing.

Aquino throws right handed. Threets is probably the best lefty option, but really, being a lefty doesn't matter if you cant get the batter out. With that said, I think the Sox will give Williams plenty of chances before they make a move.

masloan
04-16-2010, 05:42 AM
For those of you scoring at home this makes it six times out of 10 games, the Sox have scored three runs or less.

Lip

This is the runs scored over a 13 game stretch for an American league team in 2009: 0, 5, 3, 9, 2, 15, 5, 2, 0, 5, 1, 5, 0

For those "scoring at home" that is 7 out of 13 games that the team scored 3 or less, they scored 2 or less 6 our of 13 games, and were shut out 3 times.

Oh, it was the New York Yankees.

Not saying the Sox offense will be great, as there is a decent chance it will be sub-par this year, but there are a ton of positives out of the first 10 games.

I know this has been said before, but I will try to explain it. Coming in to this year there were some players who I would think we know what we will get from them:

Konerko
AJ
Pierre
Alexei

I dont think there is a huge upside but I also dont think their is a huge downside. They should be pretty close to where we expect them to be.

Here are the question marks:

Quentin
Beckham
Rios
Jones
Kotsay
Teahen

Over the first 10 games, I would say I have been extremely encouraged by Rios and Jones. Rios has swung the bat really well, much better than the numbers show, and obviously over the past series Jones has looked very good.

Teahen struggled at first, but has started to pick him up, and I think he should be able to meet our low expectations for him.

Kotsay has been ok, but with Jones playing well his playing time will be decreased

The 2 players that this offense needs to play to their potential in order to succeed this year are Quentin and Beckham. And so far they have not. Quentin has 10 RBI, and Wednesdays game and grand slam was huge. But he has struggled a bit overall. Beckham as well. He is striking out way too much at this point, but that can be expected this early in his first full season.

My point of this is that while the whiners on this board say the same stuff every day like "offense sucks", "this is the team ozzie wanted and they can't hit" blah blah blah, there are many reasons to think that this offense can be good enough to win.

Let's say Quentin and Beckham play to their potential, and Rios and Jones have great seasons (which is def a possibility), than do you really think a line up that consists of Beckham, Quentin, Konerko, Jones, Rios, AJ, and Alexei would be that bad?

asindc
04-16-2010, 10:18 AM
For those of you scoring at home this makes it six times out of 10 games, the Sox have scored three runs or less.

Lip

Well, if the following is true after about 40 games, then I will start to panic---

OPS numbers for some guys in our regular lineup:

Pierre: .487
Beckham: .726
Rios: .752
AJ: .552
Oh, for the heck of it, I'll include--
Kotsay: .554

I don't anticipate that any of these players will continue to perform this poorly for the remainder of the season. If someone does anticipate such, I am curious as to why.

guillensdisciple
04-16-2010, 10:28 AM
Um, just a general question, but weren't the Twins supposed to suck outside of the metrodome?

They sure don't look that bad :(:.

soltrain21
04-16-2010, 10:55 AM
Um, just a general question, but weren't the Twins supposed to suck outside of the metrodome?

They sure don't look that bad :(:.

No. They've built a different type of team. Look at their 3,4,5.

Lip Man 1
04-16-2010, 11:37 AM
Masloan:

And when all is said and done the Yankees will still win their 95 or so games.

Will the Sox do the same?

Lip

masloan
04-16-2010, 12:41 PM
Masloan:

And when all is said and done the Yankees will still win their 95 or so games.

Will the Sox do the same?

Lip

No they probably will not. And your point is?

All i was saying was 10 games is way too early to make judgments and to panic. Obviously the Sox offense is not swinging the bat well right now, but every team goes through times like this. But your "keeping score" of games that the sox score 3 or less is ridiculous. Andruw Jones is on pace for 48 home runs. Quentin about 160 RBI. Mark is on pace for about 32 wins. Sox have just played about 1/16th of the season. Its too early to determine how this offense with pan out.

Milkman43
04-16-2010, 12:53 PM
Yeah, Donny Lucy and Jayson Nix in the line-up really showed this line-ups true colors. . .

The sad thing about that attempted smart statement is that Lucy was hitting the ball really hard in each ab. I think we can all breathe a little bit easier now with him.

We split a series in Toronto, I'll take that.

This team looks like it's turning the corner. Let's go sweep Cleveland like we should have done last week.

I dont think I've seen a player swing and miss more than Jayson Nix.

jabrch
04-16-2010, 12:55 PM
No they probably will not. And your point is?

All i was saying was 10 games is way too early to make judgments and to panic. Obviously the Sox offense is not swinging the bat well right now, but every team goes through times like this. But your "keeping score" of games that the sox score 3 or less is ridiculous. Andruw Jones is on pace for 48 home runs. Quentin about 160 RBI. Mark is on pace for about 32 wins. Sox have just played about 1/16th of the season. Its too early to determine how this offense with pan out.


You appear new to this site - just an FYI...Lip will come up with very interesting factoids about snippets of time all year. They often hold relevance to what happened - but rarely hold relevance as predictors of what will happen. He's right - we haven't hit well - consistently. Nobody disagrees. He's also right - we aren't the Yankees. Nobody disagrees. I didn't hear him say we WON'T win 95 games - I didn't hear him say we have no chance - he was just pointing out the negative, yet factual, results of this 10 game snippet. I'm sure if it were the other way, we'd see a different snippet from Lip...Hopefully in a week or so we will see one about how well we are playing.

ike from nj
04-16-2010, 12:56 PM
No they probably will not. And your point is?

All i was saying was 10 games is way too early to make judgments and to panic. Obviously the Sox offense is not swinging the bat well right now, but every team goes through times like this. But your "keeping score" of games that the sox score 3 or less is ridiculous. Andruw Jones is on pace for 48 home runs. Quentin about 160 RBI. Mark is on pace for about 32 wins. Sox have just played about 1/16th of the season. Its too early to determine how this offense with pan out.

I totally agree with this post. Let's see 30 games at least before judging where the team is at.

jabrch
04-16-2010, 01:00 PM
I dont think I've seen a player swing and miss more than Jayson Nix.


:scratch: I can list a lot of them. Mark Reynolds, Jack Cust, Adam Dunn, Ryan Howard, Jose Hernandez, Jose Canseco, Rob Deer, Mo Vaughn, (gasp) Jim Thome...

The problem with Nix is his .202 avg and his .292 obp and his .360 slg. That's the difference between Nix and some other guys who K a lot.

masloan
04-16-2010, 01:06 PM
You appear new to this site - just an FYI...Lip will come up with very interesting factoids about snippets of time all year. They often hold relevance to what happened - but rarely hold relevance as predictors of what will happen. He's right - we haven't hit well - consistently. Nobody disagrees. He's also right - we aren't the Yankees. Nobody disagrees. I didn't hear him say we WON'T win 95 games - I didn't hear him say we have no chance - he was just pointing out the negative, yet factual, results of this 10 game snippet. I'm sure if it were the other way, we'd see a different snippet from Lip...Hopefully in a week or so we will see one about how well we are playing.

Ok I will include some of my factoids and snippets as well...

The White Sox as a team have a .223 BAbip so far this year...the league average is .289.

ike from nj
04-16-2010, 01:13 PM
Ok I will include some of my factoids and snippets as well...

The White Sox as a team have a .223 BAbip so far this year...the league average is .289.

Ha!

WhiteSox5187
04-16-2010, 01:35 PM
Well, if the following is true after about 40 games, then I will start to panic---

OPS numbers for some guys in our regular lineup:

Pierre: .487
Beckham: .726
Rios: .752
AJ: .552
Oh, for the heck of it, I'll include--
Kotsay: .554

I don't anticipate that any of these players will continue to perform this poorly for the remainder of the season. If someone does anticipate such, I am curious as to why.

This is why I hate OPS, Rios has been hitting the hell out of the ball, it's just that it's been right at someone and Beckham has an OBP of over .400, they are not problems offensively.

Craig Grebeck
04-16-2010, 01:40 PM
This is why I hate OPS, Rios has been hitting the hell out of the ball, it's just that it's been right at someone and Beckham has an OBP of over .400, they are not problems offensively.
I don't understand what the perils of small sample sizes have to do with OPS as a raw, decent statistic.

jabrch
04-16-2010, 02:09 PM
Ok I will include some of my factoids and snippets as well...

The White Sox as a team have a .223 BAbip so far this year...the league average is .289.


My problem with BAbip is that you are excluding a set of ABs that still matter. I don't care if the ball is in play or not. If you strike out, it hurts. If you pop out, it hurts. I get the fact that "you can't control what happens once it is in play", but that doesn't reflect the fact that some hitters make good contract and others don't. I'll say this - the Sox have struggled, and I think they are better than they have shown, but they need to prove it. Stats be damned - they need to play better regardless of what we use to measure that. I don't mind a 2-1 win. 2 runs isn't good - but if you win with 2 runs, I'll take it. I don't mind winning 11-0. I don't care how we win. HRs, stolen bases, errors, however we win games, I'm happy. And if we don't - it isn't the end of the world to me - we just come out tomorrow and try again. This team is good enough to contend all year and bad enough to not run away with it.

Craig Grebeck
04-16-2010, 02:13 PM
My problem with BAbip is that you are excluding a set of ABs that still matter. I don't care if the ball is in play or not. If you strike out, it hurts. If you pop out, it hurts. I get the fact that "you can't control what happens once it is in play", but that doesn't reflect the fact that some hitters make good contract and others don't. I'll say this - the Sox have struggled, and I think they are better than they have shown, but they need to prove it. Stats be damned - they need to play better regardless of what we use to measure that. I don't mind a 2-1 win. 2 runs isn't good - but if you win with 2 runs, I'll take it. I don't mind winning 11-0. I don't care how we win. HRs, stolen bases, errors, however we win games, I'm happy. And if we don't - it isn't the end of the world to me - we just come out tomorrow and try again. This team is good enough to contend all year and bad enough to not run away with it.
This team is bad enough to not compete if the pitching's not there.

kufram
04-16-2010, 02:18 PM
This team is bad enough to not compete if the pitching's not there.



Is there anything that you enjoy about following the white sox this year?

Craig Grebeck
04-16-2010, 02:19 PM
Is there anything that you enjoy about following the white sox this year?
Yes, I think we have a good pitching staff. I think we've got a solid core of young position players to build around, with some exciting, possibly league-average to above-average guys in AAA like Retherford and Flowers.

Am I excited with Juan Pierre? No. Am I excited with the way Ozzie (tinker, tinker) has done everything that people hated about Jerry Manuel? No.

I love baseball. Sorry we don't see eye-to-eye on things. I'm open to any conversation about baseball -- and if I'm ever at a game, I invite anyone to get together with me on the concourse for an inning or two and I'm sure we'll look at the game much in the same way.

Edit: also, was my statement untrue on some level?

kufram
04-16-2010, 02:40 PM
Yes, I think we have a good pitching staff. I think we've got a solid core of young position players to build around, with some exciting, possibly league-average to above-average guys in AAA like Retherford and Flowers.

Am I excited with Juan Pierre? No. Am I excited with the way Ozzie (tinker, tinker) has done everything that people hated about Jerry Manuel? No.

I love baseball. Sorry we don't see eye-to-eye on things. I'm open to any conversation about baseball -- and if I'm ever at a game, I invite anyone to get together with me on the concourse for an inning or two and I'm sure we'll look at the game much in the same way.

Edit: also, was my statement untrue on some level?


I don't know if your statement is true. We're 9 games into the season and a few guys have to come through. I see some room for hope... but I always do with the White Sox until there is none. I love watching them win. I'm glad that essentially we may not disagree so much. I just wondered if you got any enjoyment out of baseball because your posts are so negative. I'm glad to hear you do. None of my business, just wondered. I like Ozzie, but not because I think he is a great manager... he's great entertainment and I think he loves the White Sox. But when he goes too far I'm embarrassed. For him. But the players seem to like him and I think he must be very good in a clubhouse. Sometimes I could manage better but sometimes he could do my job better than I do and I doubt he's done much recording in his life.

guillensdisciple
04-16-2010, 02:56 PM
No. They've built a different type of team. Look at their 3,4,5.

I am pretty sure you were one of the few on this forum that believed the Twins were going to be dominant away from the dome. Most Sox fans, and other baseball fans or that matter, used the dome as a crutch in regards to why their team couldn't beat the Twons. Now that they are in this new stadium, we should see a level playing field, but it seems to be opposite so far. I wonder how long they can last with the pitching they have though. While they do have great hitters, who will cool down eventually, their pitching staff Is not very good and it will not carry them for too long. The White Sox will wipe them clean, and the tigers should become an after thought soon, they have played the royals 6532 times too many

Tragg
04-16-2010, 02:57 PM
We are currently one game back of Boston in the loss column and have scored more runs than we have allowed (which is also more than Boston). .
They've also played a harder schedule: 2 road series v. 1 for us; and they played the Yanks while we played the Jays. We played the tribe and they KC, so that's a wash.

It's early, but the start isn't good. There's no reason to be satisfied with a split in Toronto...the 2005 team had no problem kicking the Jays.
HOpefully, we start to play better.

soltrain21
04-16-2010, 04:20 PM
I am pretty sure you were one of the few on this forum that believed the Twins were going to be dominant away from the dome. Most Sox fans, and other baseball fans or that matter, used the dome as a crutch in regards to why their team couldn't beat the Twons. Now that they are in this new stadium, we should see a level playing field, but it seems to be opposite so far. I wonder how long they can last with the pitching they have though. While they do have great hitters, who will cool down eventually, their pitching staff Is not very good and it will not carry them for too long. The White Sox will wipe them clean, and the tigers should become an after thought soon, they have played the royals 6532 times too many

Mauer and Morneau are going to hit anywhere - and they are bringing in guys like Hudson who has proven they can hit anywhere.

Will guys like Nick Punto lose an edge by not being able to bounce them off the carpet? Sure - but that doesn't hurt the Twins THAT much with that middle of the order. Over the last few years they were building themselves for the new park, and I really don't see how people weren't picking up on that.

If they lose it will because their pitching fails.

Lip Man 1
04-16-2010, 07:04 PM
Masloan:

I guess my point was that using stats regarding the Yankees are meaningless when comparing them to the White Sox. Short of a plane crash resulting in a dozen broken arms and legs, their players will hit, hit a ton and win a lot of games. And if by some chance they don't, the Yankees will buy three guys who can at the trade deadline.

A better comparison would be teams at the Sox level of talent and spending.

The Yankees since 1995 have the top two or three records in baseball by any measure you wish to use...playoff appearances, World Series titles, winning seasons etc.

They aren't a good comparison in my opinion.

Plus this offense was supposed to change the way things were going since the second half of the 2006 season...so far it hasn't. Maybe the problem isn't the fact that the Sox had a ton of base clogging home run or nothing guys...maybe it's not that they have a bunch of slap hitting guys who don't hit very well.

Maybe, just maybe it's because the players they have, however they hit just aren't very good or very consistent. Maybe the organization is simply reaching on guys to much hoping they'll catch lightning in a bottle often.

And you didn't mention the most important stat of all, despite the slow offensive start New York is 6-3. Apparently they can afford to start slow offensively they still find ways to win. The Sox can't when they aren't hitting.

Lip

masloan
04-17-2010, 07:34 AM
Masloan:

I guess my point was that using stats regarding the Yankees are meaningless when comparing them to the White Sox. Short of a plane crash resulting in a dozen broken arms and legs, their players will hit, hit a ton and win a lot of games. And if by some chance they don't, the Yankees will buy three guys who can at the trade deadline.

A better comparison would be teams at the Sox level of talent and spending.

The Yankees since 1995 have the top two or three records in baseball by any measure you wish to use...playoff appearances, World Series titles, winning seasons etc.

They aren't a good comparison in my opinion.

Plus this offense was supposed to change the way things were going since the second half of the 2006 season...so far it hasn't. Maybe the problem isn't the fact that the Sox had a ton of base clogging home run or nothing guys...maybe it's not that they have a bunch of slap hitting guys who don't hit very well.

Maybe, just maybe it's because the players they have, however they hit just aren't very good or very consistent. Maybe the organization is simply reaching on guys to much hoping they'll catch lightning in a bottle often.

And you didn't mention the most important stat of all, despite the slow offensive start New York is 6-3. Apparently they can afford to start slow offensively they still find ways to win. The Sox can't when they aren't hitting.

Lip

With all due respect, did you even bother to read my post? I said that those were the runs scored over a 13 game stretch in 2009. From what I have seen on this board many have tons of issues with people using poor grammar, but how about reading comprehension?

The point was that while this Sox team might end up being bad, and having a bad offense, every team goes through stretches where their offense struggles. Obviously it is concerning that it is happening to begin the season, but its too early to determine if this is a struggling offense, or a bad one.

And your contention that the Yankees are a bad comparison; I think you are absolutely wrong. If the Yankees, a much more talented team who spends a ton more money, can have stretches of games where their offense struggles than any team can have those struggles. Now, obviously their talent allowed them to overcome the struggles and win the world series last year. But, my initial point was that pointing out that 6 out 10 or 7 out of 11 games the Sox scored less than 3 runs is really meaningless at this point b/c we dont know if this is a slump, or if this will be how their season plays out. And since most of these guys are hitting below their career norms I think its pretty safe to say that the offense will improve. By how much? We will find out.

Lip Man 1
04-17-2010, 12:27 PM
Masloan:

I do apologize for misreading your comments. Sorry... when folks start throwing around XYZ and OBP and BiP and Bat and whatever else may be out there my eyes start to glaze over and my head starts hurting.

What my eyes have shown though on the field though (which is far more meaningful) is that since 2006 this offense has sucked because in whatever style the Sox want to play they aren't getting the talent that can do it on a consistent basis. It's early but I see the same issues this year that everyone has seen since then, low batting average, no hitting in the clutch, can't execute fundamentals, can't get guys home from 3rd with less than two out going belly-up against garbage pitchers. The players change but the ineptness remains.

All of us need to start coming up with the reason "why."

I contend it's because the Sox are taking far too many chances on guys and "hoping" they can do well, as opposed to getting the quality of talent that they know will do well. Some might say the players are good enough but aren't being coached up to improve their skills, some say the G.M. has slipped and has done a poor job since winning the World Series. I'm sure there are other possible reasons out there as well.

Lip

masloan
04-17-2010, 12:30 PM
Masloan:

Just wondering. You're hooked on stats aren't you?

Welcome to WSI...just wait till Daver gets ahold of you.

LOL.

Lip

Nope not hooked on stats. You are the one who kept bringing up how many games the Sox scored 3 or less...I was just responding to it.

What you just did is called mismatching. Instead of addressing the fact that you either have poor reading comprehension or you did not take the time to actually read my post, you made a comment about my use of stats. You are right, I am new here, have no clue who Daver is, but if Daver wants to discuss my use of stats so be it.

Lip Man 1
04-17-2010, 12:38 PM
Masloan:

Read my update. And with respect based on your posts that I've read you sure sound like a "stat-geek." Daver has a very interesting take on those type individuals with a colorful phrase or two that he uses to describe their outlook on baseball as seen through a computer. He's one of the guys who help run this web site.

Lip

FarWestChicago
04-17-2010, 01:08 PM
Nope not hooked on stats. You are the one who kept bringing up how many games the Sox scored 3 or less...I was just responding to it.Lip only likes stats when they prove the world is ending. Don't pay any attention to him. :D: