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View Full Version : Worried About Peavy? Read On!!!


PhillipsBubba
04-14-2010, 11:10 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2156044,jake-peavy-white-sox-13.article

johnnyg83
04-14-2010, 11:16 PM
sample size too small at this point.

He faced the same AL last fall and smoked them. And his 3.66 career ERA against the AL would be fine with me this year.

tick53
04-14-2010, 11:21 PM
Well isn't that just special!

JermaineDye05
04-14-2010, 11:21 PM
People are overreacting after 2 starts.

He didn't look that bad against the Indians. He was wild and a couple of bloops found holes.

He just ran into the wrong offense on Monday, IMO.

Also, Just Verlander has a 9.00 ERA after two starts as well.

Boondock Saint
04-14-2010, 11:41 PM
Wow. Two starts in, and the press is crapping its pants. Jake Peavy is fine.

Also, there's a lot of conjecture and jumping to conclusions in that article.

Just a bull**** article in general.

WhiteSox5187
04-14-2010, 11:44 PM
Peavy is really the least of my worries. He had a decent outing against Cleveland in 38 degree weather (it's hard to throw pitches that move if your fingers are numb) and didn't do well against Toronto. One mediocre start and one bad start. If he keeps pitching this way at the end of May, THEN I'll be worried.

GoGoCrede
04-15-2010, 12:09 AM
I would have put money on Cowley being the author of this article, but alas, he wasn't.

:rolleyes: Quite the overreaction, media. I'm disappointed, but not overly surprised.

WhiteSox1989
04-15-2010, 12:15 AM
Lame.

I'm not worried. At all.

Sockinchisox
04-15-2010, 12:16 AM
This commentary is going to look ****ing stupid in two months.

Actually it looks stupid now.

jabrch
04-15-2010, 12:18 AM
:rolleyes: Quite the overreaction, media. I'm disappointed, but not overly surprised.

No more overreactional than WSI....

GoGoCrede
04-15-2010, 12:20 AM
No more overreactional than WSI....

We're not the ones in print.

Craig Grebeck
04-15-2010, 12:20 AM
No more worried than I was at the start.

doublem23
04-15-2010, 12:29 AM
No more overreactional than WSI....

:violin:

gobears1987
04-15-2010, 12:35 AM
No more overreactional than WSI....

A sad, but true point.

doublem23
04-15-2010, 12:47 AM
A sad, but true point.

Fans giving their opinion on a fansite.

THE HORROR

:shocked:

rdivaldi
04-15-2010, 01:17 AM
Should Yankee fans be worried about Teixeira? 9 games into the season is just a wee bit early for panic articles, but I think we already knew that.

UChicagoHP
04-15-2010, 01:35 AM
It isn't complete BS, his fastball was topping out at 88-90mph. As long as he regains the necessary 4-5mph that makes his "stuff" so good, all is well, if he doesn't, well, you've seen what will happen...

Noneck
04-15-2010, 01:41 AM
It isn't complete BS, his fastball was topping out at 88-90mph.

That is what I saw the last time he pitched. No one wanted to comment on that. I thought I heard he normally tops at 93-94. We will see how it plays out.

MarkZ35
04-15-2010, 01:43 AM
Am I worried? Yes. 2 games into the season or not, he hasnt looked very good at all. Is it time to freak out and throw him under the bus? Absolutely not. He's been a sucessful veteran pitcher who will come back and make us hopefully take back any of our doubts.

BadBobbyJenks
04-15-2010, 02:12 AM
Am I suppose to be worried that he will get hurt is hurt or will be bad?

I am not worried about any of them.

Chrisaway
04-15-2010, 02:36 AM
If Jake Peavy is the most of my worries than this is gonna be a GOOD year.

TDog
04-15-2010, 04:27 AM
Am I worried? Yes. 2 games into the season or not, he hasnt looked very good at all. Is it time to freak out and throw him under the bus? Absolutely not. He's been a sucessful veteran pitcher who will come back and make us hopefully take back any of our doubts.

I don't want to worry about Jake Peavy. I haven't actually seen him pitch. One sports journalist (actually a Sox fan who works in the Bay Area) is concerned that Peavy isn't the same pitcher and believes there may be word getting around the league. I hope he's wrong.

Of course, from San Francisco, you might wonder if people are looking at Peavy and seeing Barry Zito when he went to the Giants. (Zito this year looks much better than Peavy this year.) At least they believe they have seen this sort of thing before. And a couple of strong outings late in the season for a team doesn't mean he's an ace going into next year. Brandon McCarthy looked a lot better when he came up late in the season to make his debut -- really, a lot better than he ever has looked since.

It could be that the reality is somewhere in the middle. Mark Buehrle is the ace or at least the leader of the White Sox starting staff, although the stat geeks will argue the point. He best knows how to pitch, how to win even if he doesn't have the best stuff. He is followed by pitchers who may be able to outpitch him on any given night, if you're not comparing their efforts to one of Buehrle's no-hit outings. The Sox rotation may be so good that you have four pitchers capable of winning a Cy Young Award. And then you have people concerned about the fifth starter.

But nearly one time through the rotation, it is Peavy who sticks out as the weakest link in the rotation. The Sox expected more than they got from Jaime Navarro. They expected more than they got for Todd Ritchie. I can only hope their expectations are fulfilled with Jake Peavy, beginning with his next start.

Frontman
04-15-2010, 08:36 AM
We're not the ones in print.

And the way the print media is going; they won't be for long either.

Sheesh, you'd think they found Peavy rocking back and forth on the floor of the showers in the fetal position sucking his thumb.

It's two freakin' starts. He's going to be fine.

SI1020
04-15-2010, 08:49 AM
I thought it was a good, well researched article, if a bit alarmist. They have documented chapter and verse that Peavy can be streaky, and does need a bit of extra rest at times. Making him no different that a lot of other top of the line starters past and present. That being said one mediocre start and one shellacking doesn't prove that Peavy is about to go into one of his slumps. A healthy top of his game Peavy would be a major help to the team. At this point, I still expect that.

Chez
04-15-2010, 08:55 AM
If the effectiveness of Jake Peavy is this club's biggest concern, then the Sox will have a great year.

guillen4life13
04-15-2010, 09:41 AM
I am slightly worried about his velocity though. I think he should be fine,

DirtySox
04-15-2010, 09:46 AM
Velocity concerns are legitimate. Not worried about anything else though.

happydude
04-15-2010, 10:06 AM
It's too early to worry but, on the other hand, it may be a little presumptuous to conclude he will be fine, either. His career numbers against the A.L. are good; but not "ace" good. He pitched extremely well at the end of last year, no question, but we have to consider that he had a very strong arm due to his injuries and he was pitching against guys who were most likely somewhat fatigued from the long season and relatively unfamiliar with his stuff. I'll keep my fingers crossed that what we have, performance-wise, is something close to 2007 Jake.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-15-2010, 10:17 AM
I would have put money on Cowley being the author of this article, but alas, he wasn't.

:rolleyes: Quite the overreaction, media. I'm disappointed, but not overly surprised.
Cowley thinks he is going to be fine after he makes one round through the AL. I'm not overreacting about Peavy, but some of the numbers about the Padres "babying" him, etc. are news to me and very interesting.

hawkjt
04-15-2010, 10:25 AM
I heard Coop today on M & H, and when he discussed Jake, he did say he has a little stiff back,but said they make no excuses. Hmmmm....
I am not worried as long as his arm is sound,but will be watching carefully when he takes the bump vs the Tribe on Saturday.

DSpivack
04-15-2010, 10:26 AM
Cowley thinks he is going to be fine after he makes one round through the AL. I'm not overreacting about Peavy, but some of the numbers about the Padres "babying" him, etc. are news to me and very interesting.

But doesn't that 'first round' usually benefit the pitcher?

mbwhitesox
04-15-2010, 11:26 AM
Didn't read the article, I'm not worried about Peavy at all. It's been two starts, what's the big deal? He has a proven track record of success. Obviously his numbers are going to spike moving to the AL from the NL and to US Cellular from PETCO but it's not like he forgot how to pitch. He'll be fine.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-15-2010, 11:37 AM
But doesn't that 'first round' usually benefit the pitcher?
I thought so, too. And Cowley didn't explain it. But, maybe b/c Peavy has been around long enough for their to be a "book" on him.

FoulTerritory
04-15-2010, 01:17 PM
And the way the print media is going; they won't be for long either.

Sheesh, you'd think they found Peavy rocking back and forth on the floor of the showers in the fetal position sucking his thumb.

It's two freakin' starts. He's going to be fine.

Normally, I'd agree about the sample size rendering this a non-issue, but velocity is a major concern and something that is not necessarily going to simply re-appear. In short, there is empirical evidence that Peavy is not the pitcher he was.

The last pitcher that showed up here with velocity down 5mph was Billy Koch. And like Koch, I don't think Peavy is the type of pitcher that will survive without his previously standard velocity level.

areilly
04-15-2010, 01:22 PM
If the effectiveness of Jake Peavy is this club's biggest concern, then the Sox will have a great year.

?

If Peavy, anointed ace and probably the most crucial arm of the front four, performance is subpar to the point of raising eyebrows, that's a terrible year. That's like saying if the Yankees are at a point where Alex Rodriguez' bat is a liability, or if the Phillies are at a point where they can't count on Roy Halladay, then they too are having great seasons.

FoulTerritory
04-15-2010, 01:26 PM
?

If Peavy, anointed ace and probably the most crucial arm of the front four, performance is subpar to the point of raising eyebrows, that's a terrible year. That's like saying if the Yankees are at a point where Alex Rodriguez' bat is a liability, or if the Phillies are at a point where they can't count on Roy Halladay, then they too are having great seasons.

I agree. IF it turns out that our "ace" has the value of a #5 starter, then the rest of the rotation will have to have career years or else this season will be long and bad.

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-15-2010, 02:04 PM
Wow. Two starts in, and the press is crapping its pants. Jake Peavy is fine.

Also, there's a lot of conjecture and jumping to conclusions in that article.

Just a bull**** article in general.

It's not just the press. A few WSI'ers wanted him back in the NL during the Monday game thread. I wasn't happy with his performance either, but it's WAY early to dismiss him.

doublem23
04-15-2010, 02:28 PM
It's not just the press. A few WSI'ers wanted him back in the NL during the Monday game thread. I wasn't happy with his performance either, but it's WAY early to dismiss him.

Plenty of those comments from Monday were meant to be taken tongue in cheek.

october23sp
04-15-2010, 02:29 PM
I just don't like the **** he talked this off-season. Now he's **** his pants. He better step it up. If it were Buehrle I wouldn't worry but Peavy is new in town and he's got to prove himself.

NLaloosh
04-15-2010, 03:01 PM
I'm not worried about Peavy at all as long as he's healthy.

However, I do think that it's pretty cool that other than Peavy the Sox have had the best pitching in baseball so far.

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-15-2010, 03:23 PM
Plenty of those comments from Monday were meant to be taken tongue in cheek.

I'd say 1/3 of them were meant that way.

Chez
04-15-2010, 03:47 PM
?

If Peavy, anointed ace and probably the most crucial arm of the front four, performance is subpar to the point of raising eyebrows, that's a terrible year. That's like saying if the Yankees are at a point where Alex Rodriguez' bat is a liability, or if the Phillies are at a point where they can't count on Roy Halladay, then they too are having great seasons.

You misinterpreted what I was saying -- or I didn't say it clearly enough for you. I'm not worried about Peavy at all. I don't view his 2010 performance a trend or a problem worthy of generating panic.

FoulTerritory
04-15-2010, 04:08 PM
You misinterpreted what I was saying -- or I didn't say it clearly enough for you. I'm not worried about Peavy at all. I don't view his 2010 performance a trend or a problem worthy of generating panic.

Sure its no reason to panic. But there is certainly cause for concern because his struggles seem to be somewhat a product of a lack of velocity, which is a significant part of his "stuff."

If he was just having control issues then I wouldn't be worried because that is an issue that can be corrected and improved upon. But an aprox 5mph drop in velocity is not necessarily something that can be fixed if there is a problem with his arm strength and/or health.

We've seen many many pitchers hit a wall in their career where their out-pitch velocity fades and never bounces back. I mentioned Koch earlier, but the same is true of Garcia. And some pitchers have the makeup to adjust and still become decent, like Garcia, and some can't thrive w/o their plus velocity, like Koch and Dontrelle Willis.

asindc
04-15-2010, 04:13 PM
Sure its no reason to panic. But there is certainly cause for concern because his struggles seem to be somewhat a product of a lack of velocity, which is a significant part of his "stuff."

If he was just having control issues then I wouldn't be worried because that is an issue that can be corrected and improved upon. But an aprox 5mph drop in velocity is not necessarily something that can be fixed if there is a problem with his arm strength and/or health.

We've seen many many pitchers hit a wall in their career where their out-pitch velocity fades and never bounces back. I mentioned Koch earlier, but the same is true of Garcia. And some pitchers have the makeup to adjust and still become decent, like Garcia, and some can't thrive w/o their plus velocity, like Koch and Dontrelle Willis.

Not disagreeing with what you are saying, but control of his slider did seem to be the major problem in his first start. I can't remember him throwing it for a strike-looking the whole game.

soltrain21
04-15-2010, 04:19 PM
I just don't like the **** he talked this off-season. Now he's **** his pants. He better step it up. If it were Buehrle I wouldn't worry but Peavy is new in town and he's got to prove himself.

You could argue a certain Cy Young award would say that Peavy has proven himself quite well. Who cares if it's a new town? He had one bad start in cold weather and then one really bad start.

And what would make you not worry about Buehrle? We've seen him be not great quite a few times.

FoulTerritory
04-15-2010, 04:31 PM
Not disagreeing with what you are saying, but control of his slider did seem to be the major problem in his first start. I can't remember him throwing it for a strike-looking the whole game.

Yeah, that's a valid point.

Additionally, I just talked to a buddy of mine who is a big-time SF fan, and he has watched a lot of Peavy against the Giants. He said that the past couple years Peavy has been at 90-92, which isn't that far removed from the 89 the other night. My friend said that while his velocity did come down a bit with SD, he was for the most part still solid due to his ability to work multiple pitches.

This is in contrast to what I heard B&B saying about him being reliant upon a 93-95 mph heater as an out pitch, so who knows . . . although my friend probably knows more about Peavy's history and "stuff" than B&B.

Frontman
04-15-2010, 05:54 PM
Yeah, that's a valid point.

Additionally, I just talked to a buddy of mine who is a big-time SF fan, and he has watched a lot of Peavy against the Giants. He said that the past couple years Peavy has been at 90-92, which isn't that far removed from the 89 the other night. My friend said that while his velocity did come down a bit with SD, he was for the most part still solid due to his ability to work multiple pitches.

This is in contrast to what I heard B&B saying about him being reliant upon a 93-95 mph heater as an out pitch, so who knows . . . although my friend probably knows more about Peavy's history and "stuff" than B&B.

B&B's comments about Chicago athletes are worth listening to.

However, they've seen the same 5 games we've seen. I highly doubt they know Peavy as well as people who have seen him for longer.

I'm now concerned over the "tightness" in the back. I get tightness in the back; I have a hard time doing my job. Lord knows how hard it could be for a MLB pitcher to keep control with back tightness.

tsoxman
04-16-2010, 05:17 AM
B&B's comments about Chicago athletes are worth listening to.

However, they've seen the same 5 games we've seen. I highly doubt they know Peavy as well as people who have seen him for longer.

I'm now concerned over the "tightness" in the back. I get tightness in the back; I have a hard time doing my job. Lord knows how hard it could be for a MLB pitcher to keep control with back tightness.

It amazes me how many people are in denial of the fact that the guy has an injury rap sheet as long as my arm. Face it folks, his injury history should be a concern especially in light of the fact that Peavy is not getting any younger.

guillensdisciple
04-16-2010, 08:53 AM
:violin:

Okay, that HAS to be the funniest smileycon I have ever seen.

Huisj
04-16-2010, 09:38 AM
Yeah, that's a valid point.

Additionally, I just talked to a buddy of mine who is a big-time SF fan, and he has watched a lot of Peavy against the Giants. He said that the past couple years Peavy has been at 90-92, which isn't that far removed from the 89 the other night. My friend said that while his velocity did come down a bit with SD, he was for the most part still solid due to his ability to work multiple pitches.

This is in contrast to what I heard B&B saying about him being reliant upon a 93-95 mph heater as an out pitch, so who knows . . . although my friend probably knows more about Peavy's history and "stuff" than B&B.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1051&position=P#pitchtype

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=1051&position=P&pitch=FA

Those don't show the greatest trends in his fastball velocity. Seems to be steadily declining since early '07. However, the good news is that in the first table, it shows that his velocity in earlier years was a bit lower and he still pitched fine. Not sure what to make of that, but the data is interesting to look at.

SI1020
04-16-2010, 10:03 AM
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1051&position=P#pitchtype

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=1051&position=P&pitch=FA

Those don't show the greatest trends in his fastball velocity. Seems to be steadily declining since early '07. However, the good news is that in the first table, it shows that his velocity in earlier years was a bit lower and he still pitched fine. Not sure what to make of that, but the data is interesting to look at. Another web site to try to squeeze some time in for. Who charts and compiles all that data?

Harry Chappas
04-16-2010, 10:30 AM
What was Peavy's velocity during his 3 starts last season? What has it been, historically? Also, some pitchers start out slow, velocity-wise, and pick up as the season wears on. I wonder if Peavy is one of those guys.

FoulTerritory
04-16-2010, 06:05 PM
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1051&position=P#pitchtype

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=1051&position=P&pitch=FA

Those don't show the greatest trends in his fastball velocity. Seems to be steadily declining since early '07. However, the good news is that in the first table, it shows that his velocity in earlier years was a bit lower and he still pitched fine. Not sure what to make of that, but the data is interesting to look at.

Interesting data. The graph in the second link looks especially disconcerting, as it shows him hitting 96-97 at times as recently as 2007, which doesn't seem close to in reach for him right now.

Huisj
04-17-2010, 12:05 PM
Interesting data. The graph in the second link looks especially disconcerting, as it shows him hitting 96-97 at times as recently as 2007, which doesn't seem close to in reach for him right now.

Right. And that's just the averages--his max in some of those starts was even higher than that. Now, it seems his max is lower than what his average was for a while.

Crestani
04-17-2010, 01:36 PM
Yeah, that's a valid point.

Additionally, I just talked to a buddy of mine who is a big-time SF fan, and he has watched a lot of Peavy against the Giants. He said that the past couple years Peavy has been at 90-92, which isn't that far removed from the 89 the other night. My friend said that while his velocity did come down a bit with SD, he was for the most part still solid due to his ability to work multiple pitches.

This is in contrast to what I heard B&B saying about him being reliant upon a 93-95 mph heater as an out pitch, so who knows . . . although my friend probably knows more about Peavy's history and "stuff" than B&B.

I live in San Diego and I have seen Peavy pitch at Petco a half dozen times. While I realize stadium "Jugs" guns vary park to park, I always witnessed Peavy between 93-96 and up to 97 on most starts, (even up to the 7th inning). What all this means, I don't know. I do not believe that 88 - 90 or 90 - 92 are his norm. That is not the Jack Peavy I saw pitch.

doublem23
04-17-2010, 02:01 PM
http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=1051&position=P&pitch=FA


Yikes.

Noneck
04-17-2010, 02:06 PM
Yikes.

That sure doesn't look good to me considering he is about as well rested as he has been in his career. But I still don't know.

mzh
04-17-2010, 05:13 PM
Hopefully we can worry about Peavy no more! 7 IP 4 H 1 ER.

JermaineDye05
04-17-2010, 05:38 PM
Watching through gameday, it looked like Peavy pitched like he's capable of.

Ozzie blew the win for him and the game for us.

I'm still optimistic as I've always been about Jake.

DickAllen72
04-17-2010, 06:27 PM
Peavy's velocity was still way down today and although he pitched well enough to win he was laboring, especially in the seventh.