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View Full Version : I wouldnt trade Konerko...


Rikirk
04-11-2010, 04:16 PM
...mainly because Id like to see him finish his career here, but also ,cuz it seems like hes the only one who knows how to manufacture runs.

Trade Jenks

Stoky44
04-11-2010, 04:28 PM
This should be entertaining, get your popcorn ready.

Frater Perdurabo
04-11-2010, 04:31 PM
I wouldn't trade him right now, either. The Sox lineup is anemic enough as it is; they need his power. I wish there were enough better hitters that he could hit sixth, though.

esbrechtel
04-11-2010, 04:37 PM
I am a huge Konerko fan and would like to see him finish his career here...as long as he continues to play like he is now...

Boondock Saint
04-11-2010, 04:38 PM
This offense is DOA without Paulie right now. He isn't going anywhere for now.

asindc
04-11-2010, 04:39 PM
I think Pauly will have a great year, and the Sox will think about signing him as a DH/1B.

DSpivack
04-11-2010, 05:45 PM
Who would want a 1B making $12 million with an .800 OPS?

oeo
04-11-2010, 05:48 PM
Who would want a 1B making $12 million with an .800 OPS?

.800? Where are you looking at his stats at?

Madvora
04-11-2010, 05:49 PM
...mainly because Id like to see him finish his career here, but also ,cuz it seems like hes the only one who knows how to manufacture runs.

Trade Jenks
See this whole finishing your career somewhere thing is ridiculous. This is really your main concern?
My main concern is if the team is winning and the players are producing. Generally, PK has been a pretty damn good player for us and I'd love to have him as long as he keeps that up.

DSpivack
04-11-2010, 05:49 PM
.800? Where are you looking at his stats at?

His last three seasons are .840, .780, and .840, I think about an .800 OPS is what can be expected of him at this point in his career.

oeo
04-11-2010, 05:53 PM
His last three seasons are .840, .780, and .840, I think about an .800 OPS is what can be expected of him at this point in his career.

He was playing hurt most of 2008.

Gavin
04-11-2010, 06:00 PM
pk is projected to hit 81 HR. I wouldn't trade him either

DSpivack
04-11-2010, 06:04 PM
He was playing hurt most of 2008.

The other two years are .840.

Sam Spade
04-11-2010, 06:26 PM
The other two years are .840.
And his career average is right there. I believe he is still capable of producing at that level this year.

DSpivack
04-11-2010, 06:29 PM
And his career average is right there. I believe he is still capable of producing at that level this year.

So do I, I just think he has very little trade value and we wouldn't get much in return for him.

DirtySox
04-11-2010, 06:30 PM
Am I missing something? For what reason does this thread even exist?

Sam Spade
04-11-2010, 06:33 PM
Am I missing something? For what reason does this thread even exist?
I have no idea . . .

So do I, I just think he has very little trade value and we wouldn't get much in return for him.
I agree with you. He is more valuable to this team a than any other, in my opinion.

Rikirk
04-11-2010, 06:54 PM
After reading a few threads about trading PK for someone better, I felt like expressing my opinion, isnt that what a forum is for?
THATS why this post is here.

oeo
04-11-2010, 07:00 PM
The other two years are .840.

Which is not .800. What's your point? You're selling him quite a bit short.

After reading a few threads about trading PK for someone better, I felt like expressing my opinion, isnt that what a forum is for?
THATS why this post is here.

Where are those threads?

DSpivack
04-11-2010, 07:01 PM
Which is not .800. What's your point?

I said about an .800 OPS can be expected of him at this point in his career, which with his salary [and no-trade clause] means he doesn't have much trade value.

Sam Spade
04-11-2010, 07:02 PM
After reading a few threads about trading PK for someone better, I felt like expressing my opinion, isnt that what a forum is for?
THATS why this post is here.
I haven't seen any of those threads, that's all.

oeo
04-11-2010, 07:04 PM
I said about an .800 OPS can be expected of him at this point in his career, which with his salary [and no-trade clause] means he doesn't have much trade value.

But you have no evidence that it will be that low. :scratch:

DirtySox
04-11-2010, 07:11 PM
I haven't seen any of those threads, that's all.

Indeed. I was a bit confused. I wasn't aware anyone was advocating trading one of the major offensive cogs of the 2010 team 6 games into the season.

A. Cavatica
04-11-2010, 07:15 PM
Which is not .800. What's your point? You're selling him quite a bit short.

.840 is still poor for a first baseman.

asindc
04-11-2010, 07:28 PM
Where can I find a complete OPS list for AL hitters by year? I haven't figured out how to get more than the top 10 list for each year from Baseball Reference.

pudge
04-11-2010, 09:57 PM
He's the main reason on the offensive side we have any wins at all so far - but remember, Dye was carrying the team at the start of last season, and we all know how that ended.

Having said that, we clearly need someone with his pedigree in this lineup, or we'd be SOL.

soxfanreggie
04-11-2010, 10:07 PM
Why would we trade PK or Jenks 6 games into the season?

Rikirk
04-11-2010, 11:40 PM
Saw PK trade rumblings in (another day, another loss) thread. If those people want him traded thats fine thats their deal, but I wouldnt.

HomeFish
04-12-2010, 01:14 AM
Konerko and Jenks should be traded to a contender at the deadline. Jones too assuming he is still in the majors in August and is only signed for one year.

102605
04-12-2010, 01:18 AM
Konerko and Jenks should be traded to a contender at the deadline. Jones too assuming he is still in the majors in August and is only signed for one year.

Don't forget trading Buehrle to the Cardinals, Freddy to the Cubs and AJ to the Angels!

HomeFish
04-12-2010, 01:34 AM
Buehrle should be re-signed. If Garcia can be traded at the deadline that would be wonderful too. This team needs a fire sale.

Sam Spade
04-12-2010, 02:40 AM
Buehrle should be re-signed. If Garcia can be traded at the deadline that would be wonderful too. This team needs a fire sale.
lol.

pythons007
04-12-2010, 08:31 AM
Buehrle should be re-signed. If Garcia can be traded at the deadline that would be wonderful too. This team needs a fire sale.

Please tell me you're joking!!!!

g0g0
04-12-2010, 08:44 AM
Let Paulie retire a Sox. Frank got screwed but it doesn't mean Paulie has to be...

WhiteSoxFTW
04-12-2010, 11:29 AM
Trade PK for Adrian Gonzalez straight up.

Seriously though, I've never been on the "trade PK" bandwagon, but if we are somehow in a rather precarious position at the trade deadline and somebody pushing for the playoffs is willing to make us a good offer on him, then take it.

But, I agree...why are we talking about this now?

HomeFish
04-12-2010, 01:17 PM
But, I agree...why are we talking about this now?

Because it's becoming increasingly clear that this team will not contend this year. Yet we have a core of good players who are signed past this year. Thus we should trade our contract year players for prospects to quickly reload for 2011.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-12-2010, 01:36 PM
Because it's becoming increasingly clear that this team will not contend this year. Yet we have a core of good players who are signed past this year. Thus we should trade our contract year players for prospects to quickly reload for 2011.
I'm a pretty pessimistic sports fan, but damn, you take the cake. I'm sure if things go as badly as you think, then we all will be talking about this come the trade deadline. But, we have a lot of baseball before then. With that attitude, you are not going to enjoy a single minute of it.

badgerboy1848
04-12-2010, 01:36 PM
Because it's becoming increasingly clear that this team will not contend this year. Yet we have a core of good players who are signed past this year. Thus we should trade our contract year players for prospects to quickly reload for 2011.

Ya cause we'll get so much for him. :rolleyes:

Paulie deserves to retire as a white sox.

DonnieDarko
04-12-2010, 01:42 PM
Because it's becoming increasingly clear that this team will not contend this year. Yet we have a core of good players who are signed past this year. Thus we should trade our contract year players for prospects to quickly reload for 2011.

Woooooow. Bit of a negative nancy, eh? Is this this guy's sthick, or is this some new revelation from HomeFish?

stevemcstud
04-12-2010, 01:51 PM
As far as the trade Paulie thing goes I think it is crazy. I am not going to even address it because it has no merit.

But as far as signing Paulie past this year I am all for because of the following reasons:

1. Their will be a lot of 1B on the market next year, Adam Dunn, Pena, Berkman, etc. So Paulie can not expect much out of his next contract. Plus I am sure he would give a hometown discount to us on top of that. That makes Paulie worth more to us than any other team.

2. If he hits .275 30HR 90 RBI this year which he was only two solo HRs away from having last year until he lost protection with Dye and Rios hitting below .200 and Thome leaving he would have hit it then it will be a solid signing anyways.

3. He is a clubhouse leader and above average defensively at 1B.

4. The money you save on Paulie can be used towards another free agent that we might not be able to get if we are forced to sign another 1B.

5. I am thinking somewhere around 3 years 11.5 MM type contract.

HomeFish
04-12-2010, 01:57 PM
I'm a pretty pessimistic sports fan, but damn, you take the cake. I'm sure if things go as badly as you think, then we all will be talking about this come the trade deadline. But, we have a lot of baseball before then. With that attitude, you are not going to enjoy a single minute of it.

That's true, we shouldn't trade these players until July. Could I be proven wrong before then? Absolutely -- remember I predicted 75 wins in 2005 and wrote a eulogy for the division championship chances of the 2008 White Sox at least a dozen times before the blackout game. On the other hand I think I predicted 80 wins in 2007.

But if current trends continue, we're looking at third or fourth place.

HITMEN OF 77
04-12-2010, 01:57 PM
Love it. Trade talks 6 games into the season! :scratch: I'm more worried about finding a Mother's Day card right now, then the Sox being 2-4. Don't trade PK. He wants to finish his career here and has a chance to be the all time White Sox leader in many offensive categories.

pythons007
04-12-2010, 02:08 PM
That's true, we shouldn't trade these players until July. Could I be proven wrong before then? Absolutely -- remember I predicted 75 wins in 2005 and wrote a eulogy for the division championship chances of the 2008 White Sox at least a dozen times before the blackout game.

But if current trends continue, we're looking at third or fourth place.

Dude they have played 6 friggin games! 6! freaking 6! Not 46, not 56, not a 106, just freaking 6! You can't tell **** from 6 damn games! Someone really needs to ban you for most of your comments on here. You're so negative, ALL THE TIME!

Basically from what you're saying is that no team in baseball should show any signs of a losing streak of more than 4 games. The season isn't even a 10th of the way through. No one should be jumping off ledges or jumping for joy depending on how their team has started the season.

pythons007
04-12-2010, 02:09 PM
Love it. Trade talks 6 games into the season! :scratch: I'm more worried about finding a Mother's Day card right now, then the Sox being 2-4. Don't trade PK. He wants to finish his career here and has a chance to be the all time White Sox leader in many offensive categories.

I think Frank Thomas has something to say about that one. :D:

Nellie_Fox
04-12-2010, 02:14 PM
I'm a pretty pessimistic sports fan, but damn, you take the cake. I'm sure if things go as badly as you think, then we all will be talking about this come the trade deadline. But, we have a lot of baseball before then. With that attitude, you are not going to enjoy a single minute of it.He's HomeFish. This IS how he enjoys baseball!

SephClone89
04-12-2010, 02:37 PM
he's homefish. This is how he enjoys baseball!

:d:

HITMEN OF 77
04-12-2010, 03:09 PM
I think Frank Thomas has something to say about that one. :D:

If Konerko has a 3 or 4 more good years of roughly 25 hr's and 80 rbi's, he could pass Frank Thomas in HR's, RBI's, AB"s, Run's, and hits.

DSpivack
04-12-2010, 03:19 PM
If Konerko has a 3 or 4 more good years of roughly 25 hr's and 80 rbi's, he could pass Frank Thomas in HR's, RBI's, AB"s, Run's, and hits.

I hope not.

MetroPD
04-12-2010, 04:20 PM
I hope not.
Why not? He's put in as much time and effort as Big Frank did while doing it by playing in the field. Is he the same caliber of player? Not so far as in hitting. He shows up every year to play ball, he never talks about wanting to go elsewhere and he has never threatened to hold out for more money. He's a quiet every day ball player. If he was on the Yankees or Red Sox or sCrubs he would be a household name and stalwort of the organization.

DSpivack
04-12-2010, 04:22 PM
Why not? He's put in as much time and effort as Big Frank did while doing it by playing in the field. Is he the same caliber of player? Not so far as in hitting. He shows up every year to play ball, he never talks about wanting to go elsewhere and he has never threatened to hold out for more money. He's a quiet every day ball player. If he was on the Yankees or Red Sox or sCrubs he would be a household name and stalwort of the organization.

Big Frank just means more to me as a fan and is one of the greatest right-handed hitters ever. Paulie's a decent, but not great 1B.

HITMEN OF 77
04-12-2010, 10:05 PM
I hope not.

I hope so. :D:

Randar68
04-13-2010, 11:52 AM
cuz it seems like hes the only one who knows how to manufacture runs.

Yeah, nobody goes 1st to 3rd, lays down the sacrifice bunt, or hits to the right side like PK.

:whoflungpoo

Randar68
04-13-2010, 11:53 AM
Big Frank just means more to me as a fan and is one of the greatest right-handed hitters ever. Paulie's a decent, but not great 1B.

Exactly. Here are 3 players you could have, what order would you rate them:

Adrian Gonzalez
Derrick Lee
Paul Konerko

I think Konerko is clearly the 3rd best of those 3, IMO, and it isn't close.

Randar68
04-13-2010, 11:59 AM
If Konerko has a 3 or 4 more good years of roughly 25 hr's and 80 rbi's, he could pass Frank Thomas in HR's, RBI's, AB"s, Run's, and hits.

Math not your strongest subject?

Konerko is going to have to play roughly 6-7 more years to get in the same discussion with Frank and do so at the same level as his 2009 year or better, which seems like quite the stretch given the arthritic hip and such.

Konerko also has a career BA of .277 and OPS of .843. Frank was a career .301 avg and .974 OPS hitter.

This comparison is just plain ridiculous...

stevemcstud
04-13-2010, 12:02 PM
Exactly. Here are 3 players you could have, what order would you rate them:

Adrian Gonzalez
Derrick Lee
Paul Konerko

I think Konerko is clearly the 3rd best of those 3, IMO, and it isn't close.

I do not think anyone is arguing with you on this. The thing is ROI, Konerko will sign for cheap and those players will have a bidding war for the highest paying teams.

We can then take the money we save on Konerko and use it on someone else. Plus you then keep a leader in the clubhouse and franchise player on the team. Throw on top he will give you .275 28-30HR 85-95 RBI it is a no brainer.

Randar68
04-13-2010, 12:12 PM
Throw on top he will give you .275 28-30HR 85-95 RBI it is a no brainer.


It's a no-brainer to pay that guy 10M a year as a base clogging, average defense, 34 year old, arthritic hip 1B? Not in my world.

Aubrey Huff can put up relatively similar numbers and makes 3M per year. Konerko is not even really a top 10 player at his position. I don't care if he can walk on water in the clubhouse and part the red sea.

tstrike2000
04-13-2010, 12:24 PM
It's a no-brainer to pay that guy 10M a year as a base clogging, average defense, 34 year old, arthritic hip 1B? Not in my world.

Aubrey Huff can put up relatively similar numbers and makes 3M per year. Konerko is not even really a top 10 player at his position. I don't care if he can walk on water in the clubhouse and part the red sea.

:rolling:

tstrike2000
04-13-2010, 12:33 PM
Why not? He's put in as much time and effort as Big Frank did while doing it by playing in the field. Is he the same caliber of player? Not so far as in hitting. He shows up every year to play ball, he never talks about wanting to go elsewhere and he has never threatened to hold out for more money. He's a quiet every day ball player. If he was on the Yankees or Red Sox or sCrubs he would be a household name and stalwort of the organization.

We won't have to worry about him passing Frank Thomas. I like Paulie, too as a team player, and he's had a good career, but he won't reach Thomas numbers, which really meaning playing at a fairly high level for another handful of years. And a stalwort if he was on an East Sports Programming Network team is going a bit far.

HITMEN OF 77
04-13-2010, 01:48 PM
Math not your strongest subject?

Konerko is going to have to play roughly 6-7 more years to get in the same discussion with Frank and do so at the same level as his 2009 year or better, which seems like quite the stretch given the arthritic hip and such.

Konerko also has a career BA of .277 and OPS of .843. Frank was a career .301 avg and .974 OPS hitter.

This comparison is just plain ridiculous...

:scratch: Ummm...If he has 4 seasons of roughly 25 HR's, 80 RBI's, 120 hits, 450 AB's, all of which are very possible, he will be right at FT's levels. And I never mention OPS or BA.

BadBobbyJenks
04-13-2010, 01:51 PM
Buehrle should be re-signed. If Garcia can be traded at the deadline that would be wonderful too. This team needs a fire sale.

You need a fire sale. PWNT

Randar68
04-13-2010, 01:52 PM
:scratch: Ummm...If he has 4 seasons of roughly 25 HR's, 80 RBI's, 120 hits, 450 AB's, all of which are very possible, he will be right at FT's levels. And I never mention OPS or BA.

That would put him 100 HR's, 300-400 hits, and 300-400 RBI's short of Frank, by the way...

I know, I know... "mathe es harde." :dunce:

HITMEN OF 77
04-13-2010, 02:02 PM
That would put him 100 HR's, 300-400 hits, and 300-400 RBI's short of Frank, by the way...

I know, I know... "mathe es harde."

LOL, where are you getting your stats.?.

If he hit 25 HR's in 4 years he would only be 26 shy.
If he had 80 RBI's in 4 years he would be 120 shy.
If he had 120 hits in 4 years he'd be tied with FT.
If he had 450 AB's in 4 years he'd be 100 shy.

9 out of the last 11 seasons he's had more than 500 AB's so that record could easily fall.

9 out of the last 11 seasons he's had more than 140 hits, so that record would fall.

8 out of the last 11 seasons he's had more than 25 HR's, so that would fall as well.

9 out of the last 11 seasons he's had more than 80 RBI's, so that would be pretty close.

I'm not a FT hater, just putting the numbers out. Minus what Frank Zappa said, It can happen here!

Randar68
04-13-2010, 02:05 PM
LOL, where are you getting your stats.?.

If he hit 25 HR's in 4 years he would only be 26 shy.
If he had 80 RBI's in 4 years he would be 120 shy.
If he had 120 hits in 4 years he'd be tied with FT.
If he had 450 AB's in 4 years he'd be 100 shy.


The baseball cube, which shows Konerko to have 326 HR's (I guess it's 329 now and Frank to have 521.

You want to retry those calculations again, this time with real numbers instead of whatever source of fiction you are using? :rolleyes:

HITMEN OF 77
04-13-2010, 02:06 PM
The baseball cube, which shows Konerko to have 326 HR's (I guess it's 329 now and Frank to have 521.

You want to retry those calculations again, this time with real numbers instead of whatever source of fiction you are using? :rolleyes:

FT only has 448 as a White Sox player!!!! LOL!! :D:

doublem23
04-13-2010, 02:08 PM
The baseball cube, which shows Konerko to have 326 HR's (I guess it's 329 now and Frank to have 521.

You want to retry those calculations again, this time with real numbers instead of whatever source of fiction you are using? :rolleyes:

He's been talking about the White Sox franchise career records.

Next time you jump in the middle of an argument, you ought to read the whole thread before you start dropping attitude left and right.

hi im skot
04-13-2010, 02:14 PM
It's a no-brainer to pay that guy 10M a year as a base clogging, average defense, 34 year old, arthritic hip 1B? Not in my world.

Aubrey Huff can put up relatively similar numbers and makes 3M per year. Konerko is not even really a top 10 player at his position. I don't care if he can walk on water in the clubhouse and part the red sea.

Paul Konerko > Aubrey Huff, both on the field and off.

It's not even that close.

Randar68
04-13-2010, 02:17 PM
Paul Konerko > Aubrey Huff, both on the field and off.

It's not even that close.

Paul Konerko is 4x better? Cause that's what he is making... 3M vs 12M.

Saracen
04-13-2010, 02:18 PM
That would put him 100 HR's, 300-400 hits, and 300-400 RBI's short of Frank, by the way...

I know, I know... "mathe es harde." :dunce:
So is reading comprehension, evidently.

Randar68
04-13-2010, 02:18 PM
He's been talking about the White Sox franchise career records.

Next time you jump in the middle of an argument, you ought to read the whole thread before you start dropping attitude left and right.

Meh, it's still a stupid argument, so there! :-P

Randar68
04-13-2010, 02:22 PM
So is reading comprehension, evidently.

Originally Posted by HITMEN OF 77 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2464768#post2464768)
If Konerko has a 3 or 4 more good years of roughly 25 hr's and 80 rbi's, he could pass Frank Thomas in HR's, RBI's, AB"s, Run's, and hits.

That's what I read and I didn't go back over the other 4 pages to ensure I didn't miss something, that's not reading comprehension, just laziness.

hi im skot
04-13-2010, 02:28 PM
Paul Konerko is 4x better? Cause that's what he is making... 3M vs 12M.

I'm not writing his paychecks; I don't give a **** how much he's getting paid.

Randar68
04-13-2010, 02:39 PM
I'm not writing his paychecks; I don't give a **** how much he's getting paid.

That quite the parochial view. That 9M bucks would like real nice in the form of some good veteran bullpen arms not named Randy Williams, mid season acquisitions, a real legit third baseman, etc etc.

It's all about production and opportunity cost and has zero to do with how great the fans perceive a player to be in the clubhouse (somewhere they never actually get to be)

guillensdisciple
04-13-2010, 02:42 PM
Buehrle should be re-signed. If Garcia can be traded at the deadline that would be wonderful too. This team needs a fire sale.


Sometimes I wonder how you do it.

Nellie_Fox
04-13-2010, 02:45 PM
Sometimes I wonder how you do it.
It truly is a wonderment.

HITMEN OF 77
04-13-2010, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by HITMEN OF 77 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2464768#post2464768)
If Konerko has a 3 or 4 more good years of roughly 25 hr's and 80 rbi's, he could pass Frank Thomas in HR's, RBI's, AB"s, Run's, and hits.

That's what I read and I didn't go back over the other 4 pages to ensure I didn't miss something, that's not reading comprehension, just laziness.
Originally Posted by HITMEN OF 77

Love it. Trade talks 6 games into the season! :scratch: I'm more worried about finding a Mother's Day card right now, then the Sox being 2-4. Don't trade PK. He wants to finish his career here and has a chance to be the all time White Sox leader in many offensive categories.

hi im skot
04-13-2010, 02:52 PM
That quite the parochial view. That 9M bucks would like real nice in the form of some good veteran bullpen arms not named Randy Williams, mid season acquisitions, a real legit third baseman, etc etc.

It's all about production and opportunity cost and has zero to do with how great the fans perceive a player to be in the clubhouse (somewhere they never actually get to be)

Reinsdorf has shown he's willing to open the wallet when the proper opportunity arises.

Konerko is more of a threat than Huff, and is still more than adequate at 1B. If he moves over to DH anytime soon, he makes much more sense than Huff at DH.

I love Konerko, but sentimentality doesn't rule on this scenario; Konerko is lightyears ahead of Huff, in my humble opinion.

Randar68
04-13-2010, 03:00 PM
Reinsdorf has shown he's willing to open the wallet when the proper opportunity arises.

Konerko is more of a threat than Huff, and is still more than adequate at 1B. If he moves over to DH anytime soon, he makes much more sense than Huff at DH.

I love Konerko, but sentimentality doesn't rule on this scenario; Konerko is lightyears ahead of Huff, in my humble opinion.

Huff is a better defensive 1B than Konerko and can play 3B in a pinch and is a LH batter. They are the same age roughly, and Huff's career numbers are only a touch below Konerko's... .282 carrer BA and .812 career OPS compared to .277 and .843.

That ain't $9 million bucks better no matter how you slice it or choose to look at it. If you want to say you like him and hope he doesn't go, nobody can argue with that perspective.

But he is not appreciably better than Aubrey Huff. He may be slightly better, but you have to take sentiment and the inherent overvaluing of your team's players out of the equation, IMO.

DSpivack
04-13-2010, 03:26 PM
Huff is a better defensive 1B than Konerko and can play 3B in a pinch and is a LH batter. They are the same age roughly, and Huff's career numbers are only a touch below Konerko's... .282 carrer BA and .812 career OPS compared to .277 and .843.

That ain't $9 million bucks better no matter how you slice it or choose to look at it. If you want to say you like him and hope he doesn't go, nobody can argue with that perspective.

But he is not appreciably better than Aubrey Huff. He may be slightly better, but you have to take sentiment and the inherent overvaluing of your team's players out of the equation, IMO.

Both are aging 1B on the decline, I don't want either.

Randar68
04-13-2010, 03:28 PM
Both are aging 1B on the decline, I don't want either.

And that's perfectly fair. Derrick Lee is the same age as Konerko. Out of the 1B out there would you take Lee? I would.

DSpivack
04-13-2010, 03:29 PM
And that's perfectly fair. Derrick Lee is the same age as Konerko. Out of the 1B out there would you take Lee? I would.

Yes, but that all depends on salary demands, too. What they'll want from their final contract I have no idea.

Boondock Saint
04-13-2010, 03:30 PM
Huff is a better defensive 1B than Konerko and can play 3B in a pinch and is a LH batter. They are the same age roughly, and Huff's career numbers are only a touch below Konerko's... .282 carrer BA and .812 career OPS compared to .277 and .843.

That ain't $9 million bucks better no matter how you slice it or choose to look at it. If you want to say you like him and hope he doesn't go, nobody can argue with that perspective.

But he is not appreciably better than Aubrey Huff. He may be slightly better, but you have to take sentiment and the inherent overvaluing of your team's players out of the equation, IMO.

The fact that he's a lefty and can play better defense are good points, but Konerko is still a bigger threat at the plate, and that's what this team needs right now. Huff has a similar slash line, but Konerko hits more doubles and HRs, as well as walking more often.

Randar68
04-13-2010, 03:37 PM
The fact that he's a lefty and can play better defense are good points, but Konerko is still a bigger threat at the plate, and that's what this team needs right now. Huff has a similar slash line, but Konerko hits more doubles and HRs, as well as walking more often.

Konerko probably will continue to be more of a HR threat than Huff, but he doesn't hit more doubles. Konerko is slower and hits into more DP's and K's more as well, so it's all weighed in here. I'm not a big Huff fan, but I think they are more similar than a majority would admit, except for their salaries. haha.

Why not just sign Dye and move him to 1B like I wanted to do 3 years ago? LOL!

konerko 14
04-13-2010, 05:05 PM
I think the Sox will resign him after this season to like 2-3 years, but for less money than his previous contract

Randar68
04-13-2010, 05:47 PM
I think the Sox will resign him after this season to like 2-3 years, but for less money than his previous contract

I wouldn't be opposed to that but it depends on what Konerko is looking for in terms of years for what might be his last real contract and I think that probably will have more to do with it than anything. Would he be willing to sign for 2-3 years and like $7M per year or is he looking for a good 5 yr deal to take him up to retirement?

I would be looking for the latter if I were him so I won't have to go through FA as a 36/37 year old and likely only being able to get 1 yr contracts at a pop or in Dye's situation.

Frater Perdurabo
04-13-2010, 08:56 PM
Isn't there some rule that a player cannot re-sign with his current team for more than a 20% pay cut? (And/or the MLBPA strongly advises against doing so?) If that's the case, there's no way the Sox could re-sign Paulie for less than $10 million per year.

I'm not against re-signing Paulie, but the Sox must answer these questions:

1. Could they get similar production at a lower price from a different player?

2. Would that savings at 1B allow them to upgrade the team elsewhere?

3. Is Paulie's higher cost worth it for his "intangibles" and the PR aspect?

Rikirk
04-13-2010, 09:06 PM
Wow,...
Some of you people thrill me with your gratitude for a guy whose done alot for the white sox.

Randar68
04-14-2010, 11:42 AM
Wow,...
Some of you people thrill me with your gratitude for a guy whose done alot for the white sox.

He has been paid handsomely in his career here! Why do you have to show "gratitude" by paying him above market price for the production of an aging mid-level 1B?

If you're going to play armchair GM, you have to think in $$$'s and production/projection, and not with your heart. It's about winning, not being a charity for over-the-hill nice guy players.

Sheeeeesh.

kitekrazy
04-14-2010, 11:49 AM
Wow,...
Some of you people thrill me with your gratitude for a guy whose done alot for the white sox.

Pro sports is full of bad contracts based on gratitude.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-14-2010, 12:29 PM
Pro sports is full of bad contracts based on gratitude.
Just look at the Chicago Bears and contracts for Brian Urlacher and Tommie Harris.

guillen4life13
04-14-2010, 12:35 PM
He has been paid handsomely in his career here! Why do you have to show "gratitude" by paying him above market price for the production of an aging mid-level 1B?

If you're going to play armchair GM, you have to think in $$$'s and production/projection, and not with your heart. It's about winning, not being a charity for over-the-hill nice guy players.

Sheeeeesh.

Only when playing armchair GM should heart ever come into it. There's decency, and there's foolishness. KW doesn't think as much with his heart as he does with his brain. He had better not.

Paulie might be reasonable enough to realize that he no longer holds the value he used to. If he does, I would be more than happy to have him on board for a 1-2 year deal (providing Viciedo starts to seem major league ready for next year and/or the Sox can't land a 1B before opening day 2011). He still saves this team a lot with his scoops in the dirt. When he's hot offensively, he's one tough cookie.

But the following 1B are more valuable than PK right now (in no order):
-Pujols
-Gonzalez
-Youkilis
-Morneau
-Cabrera
-Fielder
-Teixeira
-Reynolds
-Votto
-Sandoval
-Butler
-Pena
-N. Johnson
-Berkman
-D. Lee?

Konerko shouldn't expect a huge deal or payday.

jabrch
04-14-2010, 02:18 PM
Only when playing armchair GM should heart ever come into it. There's decency, and there's foolishness. KW doesn't think as much with his heart as he does with his brain. He had better not.

Paulie might be reasonable enough to realize that he no longer holds the value he used to. If he does, I would be more than happy to have him on board for a 1-2 year deal (providing Viciedo starts to seem major league ready for next year and/or the Sox can't land a 1B before opening day 2011). He still saves this team a lot with his scoops in the dirt. When he's hot offensively, he's one tough cookie.

But the following 1B are more valuable than PK right now (in no order):
-Pujols
-Gonzalez
-Youkilis
-Morneau
-Cabrera
-Fielder
-Teixeira
-Reynolds
-Votto
-Sandoval
-Butler
-Pena
-N. Johnson
-Berkman
-D. Lee?

Konerko shouldn't expect a huge deal or payday.


I agree with most of your list...but Nick Johnson? Between 2007 and 2009 (3 years) he has had fewer than 600 ABs with a mediocre batting average and no power. Nick Johnson's best skill is to not swing the bat. I wouldn't take him over PK. That said, I do agree with your point that I don't see him getting a big deal for multiple years at a big salary.

voodoochile
04-14-2010, 02:34 PM
I agree with most of your list...but Nick Johnson? Between 2007 and 2009 (3 years) he has had fewer than 600 ABs with a mediocre batting average and no power. Nick Johnson's best skill is to not swing the bat. I wouldn't take him over PK. That said, I do agree with your point that I don't see him getting a big deal for multiple years at a big salary.

4 years 32M total would be about the max and I wouldn't be shocked to see 3 years for 24. I still think he's worth that much.

DSpivack
04-14-2010, 03:37 PM
4 years 32M total would be about the max and I wouldn't be shocked to see 3 years for 24. I still think he's worth that much.

That depends on who else is available and for how much.

Rikirk
04-14-2010, 04:17 PM
If im any judge of character, I dont think PK will ask for more than his worth. He may even offer hometown discount. He probobly wants to retire here. And if hes as washed up as everyone says he is...who else would take him? Hes more valuable to us than anyone else, hes still usefull...he can still hit, hes decent at 1B. I could see him as DH if the case may be. Hes also one reason we won the WS in ,05, Or did we forget about that grand slam in the WS.
But hey....this is just me....like it or lump it.

doublem23
04-14-2010, 04:33 PM
I could see him as DH if the case may be. Hes also one reason we won the WS in ,05, Or did we forget about that grand slam in the WS.

That doesn't have any bearing on whether or not we should sign him for 2011 and beyond.

munchman33
04-14-2010, 05:26 PM
4 years 32M total would be about the max and I wouldn't be shocked to see 3 years for 24. I still think he's worth that much.

Russel Branyan just came off a year of hitting more homers with a higher OBP and settled for only just barely getting a major league job with a bad team. Sure, Paulie's worth more due to his track record. But I doubt he's worth THAT much more.

There are so many 1B/DH types putting up comparable numbers now. It's insane to pay that much without marquee production. You simply don't have to.

Randar68
04-14-2010, 06:30 PM
That depends on who else is available and for how much.

Exactly. If you can have Lee for 5 years and 50M I would take that over 4/32 for Konerko. I think Lee will probably make more than that if he has a good year this year, but you never know how the FA and trade chips fall.

asindc
04-14-2010, 08:02 PM
Russel Branyan just came off a year of hitting more homers with a higher OBP and settled for only just barely getting a major league job with a bad team. Sure, Paulie's worth more due to his track record. But I doubt he's worth THAT much more.

There are so many 1B/DH types putting up comparable numbers now. It's insane to pay that much without marquee production. You simply don't have to.

I understand your point but Branyan is worth much less because he has been injury-prone his entire career and probably cannot play in the field anyone. That said, re-signing Pauly should not be automatic unless it is a great deal for the Sox.

munchman33
04-14-2010, 08:04 PM
I understand your point but Branyan is worth much less because he has been injury-prone his entire career and probably cannot play in the field anyone. That said, re-signing Pauly should not be automatic unless it is a great deal for the Sox.

Branyan also got more than Dye, who got nothing for years of production and a decent season on par with what Paulie's been putting up. Food for thought.

jabrch
04-14-2010, 09:29 PM
4 years 32M total would be about the max and I wouldn't be shocked to see 3 years for 24. I still think he's worth that much.

I wouldn't be surprised (unless he continues to do what he has done so far this year) to see him even take/get less.

TheVulture
04-14-2010, 09:58 PM
Absolutely -- remember I predicted 75 wins in 2005 and wrote a eulogy for the division championship chances of the 2008 White Sox at least a dozen times before the blackout game. On the other hand I think I predicted 80 wins in 2007.

So basically, you're saying you're always wrong. Yet you continue promoting your strongly held conviction of imminent doom. Does that mean you are really an optimist after all?