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View Full Version : *Official* 'Another Day, Another Loss' 4/10 PostGame Thread


october23sp
04-10-2010, 02:42 PM
Pathetic.:angry:

soltrain21
04-10-2010, 02:43 PM
Hope you like your ****ing team, Ozzie.

kevingrt
04-10-2010, 02:43 PM
How ugly is our hitting? Jeesh this is not fun at all right now.

russ99
04-10-2010, 02:43 PM
What a waste.

I say if we get swept tomorrow, Kenny has to do something.

Frater Perdurabo
04-10-2010, 02:43 PM
Just remember, Ozzie has the team he wants.

guillen4life13
04-10-2010, 02:44 PM
:puking:All I can say is that this offense is downright offensive.

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 02:44 PM
Five games in, and this team is already a broken record.

Quality pitching, winnable game, no offense, horrible execution.

mccoydp
04-10-2010, 02:44 PM
Great game!

WhiteSox5187
04-10-2010, 02:44 PM
This team is just awful.

russ99
04-10-2010, 02:44 PM
Just remember, Ozzie has the team he wants.

Is Ozzie up there hitting?

Ozzie's made all the calls to get guys in scoring position and no one can execute.

Oh yeah, all Ozzie's fault. :rolleyes:

Navarro's Talent
04-10-2010, 02:44 PM
Well, that was too bad. The pitchers deserved better. Go get them tomorrow.

DirtySox
04-10-2010, 02:44 PM
Calm down guys. The wait and see approach is in effect.

kevingrt
04-10-2010, 02:44 PM
Hope you like your ****ing team, Ozzie.

This line-up he constructed just lots like crap so far this year. Very early but Kotsay in the five hole is just such a major dip in our line-up it kills us.

VMSNS
04-10-2010, 02:45 PM
This **** is ridiculous. It's time for Kenny to pull the plug on Ozzie's little "experiment". Get some good bats in there and stop squandering this great pitching staff.

BRDSR
04-10-2010, 02:45 PM
If you had told me Freddy would go 7 and give up 3 hits, I would have told you surely we can't lose again.

The thrill of a new season has definitely worn off.

veeter
04-10-2010, 02:45 PM
Once again we lean on the anchor, Mark Buehrle, to salvage something.

russ99
04-10-2010, 02:45 PM
This **** is ridiculous. It's time for Kenny to pull the plug on Ozzie's little "experiment". Get some good bats in there and stop squandering this great pitching staff.

Who, exactly?

Rudy Law
04-10-2010, 02:45 PM
The first thing Ozzie needs is stop batting Kotsay/Jones 5th.....Why are they hitting that high......They suck right now and are killing innings

yazz32
04-10-2010, 02:45 PM
Kotsay is killing me each day leaving runners on bases.......

Hendu
04-10-2010, 02:46 PM
Digging a hole already...and at home. Not good. We've gotta start hitting, and stop wasting good starting pitching.

kevingrt
04-10-2010, 02:46 PM
What a waste.

I say if we get swept tomorrow, Kenny has to do something.

Wait six games into the season and if we are 1-5 Kenny must make a move? This is why some people in White Sox management get frustrated with their fanbase. 3% of the way done with the season and some people want changes.

Frater Perdurabo
04-10-2010, 02:46 PM
Is Ozzie up there hitting?

Ozzie's made all the calls to get guys in scoring position and no one can execute.

Oh yeah, all Ozzie's fault. :rolleyes:

This is the type of team he wanted.

Over By There
04-10-2010, 02:46 PM
Not good, but go get 'em tomorrow. Nice to see Teahen with an RBI and Garcia's and Linebrink's performances are a good sign.

russ99
04-10-2010, 02:47 PM
The first thing Ozzie needs is stop batting Kotsay/Jones 5th.....Why are they hitting that high......They suck right now and are killing innings

Beckham 0-4, 4 LOB
Quentin 0-3, 2 LOB

Guess again.

DirtySox
04-10-2010, 02:47 PM
On the bright side, I'll take an outing like that from Garcia any day of the week.

kevingrt
04-10-2010, 02:47 PM
Once again we lean on the anchor, Mark Buehrle, to salvage something.

Yeah but Freddy pitched out of his mind today. Our pitching is fine, even Scottie Linebrink pitching his butt off today and we still can't win.

Major ups to Linebrink today. He pitched extremely well.

soltrain21
04-10-2010, 02:48 PM
Wait six games into the season and if we are 1-5 Kenny must make a move? This is why some people in White Sox management get frustrated with their fanbase. 3% of the way done with the season and some people want changes.

You must have missed last year.

Navarro's Talent
04-10-2010, 02:48 PM
Beckham 0-4, 4 LOB
Quentin 0-3, 2 LOB

Guess again.

Yeah, Kotsay's unfairly getting too much blame lately. There are plenty of guys on the team not hitting. At least, Kotsay got a hit today.

Frater Perdurabo
04-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Ozzie is a loudmouthed, lousy, lazy instructor.

I'd much rather have Ron Gardenhire.

Despite his faults, Jerry Manuel was a better "teacher" than Ozzie is.

Ozzie can't even teach his middle son to shut up.

He's a terrible teacher.

guillen4life13
04-10-2010, 02:49 PM
The positives in this game:

Teahen and Kotsay finally got hits.
If Linebrink pitches like he did today, the pen could change from a liability to a major strength.
Garcia delivered a gem.

The negatives in this game:
eh... I think you will all do fine filling this section out. I'm too lazy.

october23sp
04-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Wait six games into the season and if we are 1-5 Kenny must make a move? This is why some people in White Sox management get frustrated with their fanbase. 3% of the way done with the season and some people want changes.


Enough with the "it's early" excuse. This team ****ing sucks. Whether it is April or September, this team is garbage.

Shoeless_Jeff
04-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Garcia went above and beyond what is expected of him today, great pitching from him. This offense it absolutely ****ing pathetic.

Rikirk
04-10-2010, 02:49 PM
So....Are offense and defense gonna be a no show this year? We need hits with men on base....its as simple as that.

russ99
04-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Yeah, Kotsay's unfairly getting too much blame lately. There are plenty of guys on the team not hitting. At least, Kotsay got a hit today.

I don't think he should be in the five spot either, but there's 9 guys who can't drive in runs right now.

KRS1
04-10-2010, 02:50 PM
So, I guess the worries over the lineup was legit and the defensive ones are pretty moot right now.

veeter
04-10-2010, 02:50 PM
Yeah but Freddy pitched out of his mind today. Our pitching is fine, even Scottie Linebrink pitching his butt off today and we still can't win.

Major ups to Linebrink today. He pitched extremely well.I'm in no way criticizing the pitching, it's been great. Mark just has to throw a shutout.

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 02:51 PM
Enough with the "it's early" excuse. This team ****ing sucks. Whether it is April or September, this team is garbage.

Yeah. I'd say a four game losing streak, at home, with two of them coming against one of the worst teams in the league is cause for concern.

JermaineDye05
04-10-2010, 02:52 PM
SSDD

Just for clarification...

I said in the game thread that Mark Buehrle needs to stop doing phenomenal things and that the curse lives on. I was referring to the play not the start (Boondock).

russ99
04-10-2010, 02:52 PM
Despite his faults, Jerry Manuel was a better "teacher" than Ozzie is.



Really? Jerry Manuel?

Some people have a short memory.

And we have a hitting instructor on payroll who's responsibility is to get his guys to produce.

soxfanatlanta
04-10-2010, 02:52 PM
Oof.

At least Garcia gave us some innings.

tstrike2000
04-10-2010, 02:53 PM
Every single game has been winnable, but if you don't have clutch hitting in the later innings, it won't matter. And I stand corrected on Randy Williams. He's not gonna be here long if that craps lasts too much longer.

Stoky44
04-10-2010, 02:53 PM
Usually I would be really upset with a 1-5 start. However, I think this team has looked good pitching wise and defensively. The offense will start to come around, its early in the season. Pierre and Bacon will start to hit. Rios is hitting the ball hard and well, the results just are no there yet. TCQ needs to step it up. I have confidence the offense will turn around. Will it be a great, tearing the cover off the ball offense, no. Let the season go a little while before we start going crazy. I bet we run off a 4-5 game winning streak soon. This pitching is too good, and our offense is not really this bad.

kruzer31
04-10-2010, 02:53 PM
I feel like I have watched the same exact game for the past four days.

Ozzie trying to hit and run last night was terrible, Ozzie thinking Kotsay and Jones was a good idea was brutal, and Kenny getting Mark Teahan,,,,well, he just isnt good.

With Ozzie and his kids thinking they are bigger then this organization with all the Twitter, reality TV ideas, Oney drama, it will be time to move on with out him if this team doesnt head to the playoffs.

J

HangWiffum
04-10-2010, 02:54 PM
Our DH position has not gotten a hit this year right?

johnnyg83
04-10-2010, 02:55 PM
what fresh hell awaits tomorrow

guillen4life13
04-10-2010, 02:56 PM
Our DH position has not gotten a hit this year right?

Kotsay came through with one today.

munchman33
04-10-2010, 02:56 PM
Take it easy everyone. Games in April don't count as much as games in September, and games against division foes don't mean 2 games in the standings.

SI1020
04-10-2010, 02:57 PM
Really? Jerry Manuel?

Some people have a short memory.

And we have a hitting instructor on payroll who's responsibility is to get his guys to produce. I thought Manuel did a decent enough job at "teaching" early in his tenure with the Sox.

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 02:57 PM
Take it easy everyone. Games in April don't count as much as games in September, and games against division foes don't mean 2 games in the standings.

I really wish people would stop saying this.

HangWiffum
04-10-2010, 02:57 PM
Kotsay came through with one today.

He was playing first base today.

guillen4life13
04-10-2010, 02:59 PM
Wait... Kotsay played 1B today. But Konerko also got a hit, and Pierre got 2 hits when he DH's, so yes, the DH has 3 hits so far this season.

aryzner
04-10-2010, 03:00 PM
Dear White Sox,

http://tulane.edu/alumni/club/images/baseball_2.jpg


The object of the game is to hit this hard to where fielders are not present. Please do so.

Sincerely,

White Sox fans

Hartman
04-10-2010, 03:00 PM
Walker needs to go. It is not directly his fault this early in the season, but we MUST get some fresh ideas into the minds of these hitters. We have some talent on this team that is going to waste for some particular reason.

Soxman219
04-10-2010, 03:00 PM
These games are going to come back to haunt them. Soon the offense will be lights out but the pitching will suck. They'll never be a good balance, as long as Ozzie's pipe dream exists in his mind.

Rikirk
04-10-2010, 03:01 PM
Bring me the head of Greg Walker...The object of the game is to win, if thats not the case, dont bother keeping score.

SI1020
04-10-2010, 03:01 PM
Wait... Kotsay played 1B today. But Konerko also got a hit, and Pierre got 2 hits when he DH's, so yes, the DH has 3 hits so far this season. They are hitting a collective .158

DSpivack
04-10-2010, 03:03 PM
But it was warm today!

Couldn't decide whether to teal that.

johnnyg83
04-10-2010, 03:09 PM
Walker must be a hell of a salesman.

"I'm doing a great job, Kenny. It's these players who won't execute that are to blame."

ShoelessJoeS
04-10-2010, 03:10 PM
Freddy exceeded my expectations today. He put us in a position to win, but the offense let him down.

*sigh*

EDIT: And props to Linebrink for bailing out Randy Williams. That was one hell of a job.

sox1970
04-10-2010, 03:11 PM
Walker must be a hell of a salesman.

"I'm doing a great job, Kenny. It's these players who won't execute that are to blame."

Yeah, it's Greg Walker's fault. :rolleyes:

Corlose 15
04-10-2010, 03:17 PM
What's funny about this losing streak is that it's not a lack of power issue. They just aren't hitting AT ALL.


They're getting walks, they're getting runners in scoring position, it's just that nobody is coming through anywhere in the lineup.

Rikirk
04-10-2010, 03:18 PM
How long have we had hitting problems on this team? I can remember us failing to score with RSP for a few years now. It is the players fault....AND it is Walkers fault.

soltrain21
04-10-2010, 03:20 PM
How long have we had hitting problems on this team? I can remember us failing to score with RSP for a few years now. It is the players fault....AND it is Walkers fault.

Yep, and there has been plenty of turnover on the roster. You aren't going to fire the players.

nsolo
04-10-2010, 03:21 PM
You must have missed last year.

post of the day.

Hartman
04-10-2010, 03:21 PM
I'm afraid that Kenny and Ozzie are so "tight" that there will never be any significant changes made to the coaching staff. If there were, Ozzie would throw a fit and Oney would blab about it on Twitter.

veeter
04-10-2010, 03:22 PM
The Sox seem to go into so many COLLECTIVE slumps, it's unbelievable. Most teams have one or two guys scuffling, not the Sox. The Sox also always seem tight.

Blueprint1
04-10-2010, 03:25 PM
Just got back from the game. Everyone looks lost at the plate.

Lip Man 1
04-10-2010, 03:26 PM
Wow.

That's all I can say.

Lip

Corlose 15
04-10-2010, 03:26 PM
The Sox seem to go into so many COLLECTIVE slumps, it's unbelievable. Most teams have one or two guys scuffling, not the Sox. The Sox also always seem tight.

That's really what it is right now. The whole team isn't hitting.

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 03:30 PM
Two points above dead last in batting average, but second in the majors in walks. So much for "doing the little things to score runs". We need guys that can hit the ball.

soxlady8
04-10-2010, 03:31 PM
Freddy pitched pretty well if ya ask me --
Liney got out of that jam pretty well -- I was really , really , nervous about it !!

Here we go again... we have some new guys out there and they are not hitting !!!!!!!!!

First game out there of the season for me ---beautiful weather out near the pen , U.S. Cell is fab (as always) , but that game just brought me down
:(

gotta get the hitting going !

veeter
04-10-2010, 03:32 PM
That's really what it is right now. The whole team isn't hitting.And that's always been the thing that makes teams look the worst. I still have hope, if the pitching can maintain.

RockJock07
04-10-2010, 03:32 PM
3 runs or less in each one of these losses is inexplicable. Rios getting a double today and then just taking off on that can of corn off the bat of AJ was brutal.

Everyone has been bad this homestand, i can't name you a single offense player that should be commended other then maybe Paulie. Beckham, Carlos, Teahen, Alexei where are you guys?

I don't want to confuse this slump with Ozzie's effect on this team but at some point he need to grab his balls and fire Walker if that's the issue or figure something else out.

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 03:35 PM
It just occurred to me: Have we "manufactured" a single run so far this season? I can't recall the last time we sacrificed a guy over and brought him in.

Tragg
04-10-2010, 03:36 PM
It's not a good hitting team on paper...too many mediocre veterans of the prototype that, for better or worse, this coaching staff loves.
And now what isn't a good hitting team at its best is in a slump.

mrs. hendu
04-10-2010, 03:36 PM
It's just wrong that the team has lost four in a row - at home. :scratch: I'm not panicking though. Yet.

Nelfox02
04-10-2010, 03:38 PM
bigger picture---where is this team/organization trending?

for better or for worse MLB is a world of have and have not organizations---IMO the last few years have us firmly going in the have not directions

what is the identity? we dont have a super star player, we dont have a guy who puts butts in seats we dont have anyone like that on the horizon in our system, and cleary the precedent is set that this team will not acquire a player (dare I say players) like that in the FA market

we are not developing talent we dont manage the limited talent we have now at any tier of this organization

is the major downside of 2005 the fact that this organization thinks it can assemble mediocre at best teams and expect them to gel just right that they produce contenders?

for the last 2 years this fanbase is forced to settle for mediocrity---and yet this organization has the audacity to go after us for not coming out to the park in droves and forking over top $$$ to watch this product? and this year and off season they will "punish" us further by trading away what few solid players we have and doing nothing in the off season because "the money is not there---fans did not come out and support the 2010 team, despite the fact it hung in for third place all year...."

I love the Sox...but I just dont know how much more of this philosophy I can take

K

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 03:40 PM
bigger picture---where is this team/organization trending?

for better or for worse MLB is a world of have and have not organizations---IMO the last few years have us firmly going in the have not directions

what is the identity? we dont have a super star player, we dont have a guy who puts butts in seats we dont have anyone like that on the horizon in our system, and cleary the precedent is set that this team will not acquire a player (dare I say players) like that in the FA market

we are not developing talent we dont manage the limited talent we have now at any tier of this organization

is the major downside of 2005 the fact that this organization thinks it can assemble mediocre at best teams and expect them to gel just right that they produce contenders?

for the last 2 years this fanbase is forced to settle for mediocrity---and yet this organization has the audacity to go after us for not coming out to the park in droves and forking over top $$$ to watch this product? and this year and off season they will "punish" us further by trading away what few solid players we have and doing nothing in the off season because "the money is not there---fans did not come out and support the 2010 team, despite the fact it hung in for third place all year...."

I love the Sox...but I just dont know how much more of this philosophy I can take

K

Jake Peavy says hello.

edit: Also, when was the last time we "Traded away what few solid players we have"?

35thPaloma
04-10-2010, 03:42 PM
So this 4 game losing streak has officially brought me out of lurking. And it just seems appropriate that a post of this kind be my very first, so here we go.


SERIOUSLY??? ugh.

Pros: Thanks Freddy, Thanks Scott (although I'm sure Ill be back to loathing you tomorrow) Thank You Beautiful Chicago Day, and Thank You Subway - you were delicious.

Cons: Dear baseball bats, I'm sorry the offense thinks you're just fun props.

Nelfox02
04-10-2010, 03:44 PM
Jake Peavy says hello.


Is Jake Peavy a super star player? great pitcher---yes But where would you rank him on the list of starting pitchers? honestly


Also---I dont think pitchers snare the casual fans to come to the part these days most people come to see the hitters----Pujols, A Fraud, Fielder, Howard, Mauer

So many teams have big time offensive talent---a lot of it home grown Even the Rays have Longoria

Is the last truly great player to come out of this organization Frank?

Corlose 15
04-10-2010, 03:44 PM
It just occurred to me: Have we "manufactured" a single run so far this season? I can't recall the last time we sacrificed a guy over and brought him in.

The first 2nd Indians game they scored a run in the 1st inning without getting a hit.


The problem isn't necessarily style right now it's execution. They're walking and getting people in a position to score. NOBODY is getting the hit to drive them in.

DickAllen72
04-10-2010, 03:45 PM
Just remember, Ozzie has the team he wants.
At least they have versatility. :D:

The Sox have the best fielding DHs in the league. Too bad a few of their infielders and one of their outfielders aren't that good on defense.

It would be nice if either their Dhs or their position players could hit better too. What a waste of great pitching! But hey, as you stated, this is the team Ozzie wanted. :cool:

Nelfox02
04-10-2010, 03:47 PM
Jake Peavy says hello.

edit: Also, when was the last time we "Traded away what few solid players we have"?


My belief--a la Thome last year---is this team will try to move players mid summer if it continues to struggle (and I know its just 5 games but you look at this roster and it gives you no indication that it will ever be consistent enough to win you simply cannot demand that your pitching staff limit the other team to 3 runs or less nearly every day) so come the all star break you dont think they will try to dump any salary they can?

wassagstdu
04-10-2010, 03:47 PM
How about a straight-up deal, Pierre for Podsednik and the Sox pay Pierre's contract?

soltrain21
04-10-2010, 03:48 PM
How about a straight-up deal, Pierre for Podsednik and the Sox pay Pierre's contract?

God no.

Baron
04-10-2010, 03:50 PM
Someone wake Jermaine Dye up and tell him to come here and play

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 03:51 PM
Is Jake Peavy a super star player? great pitcher---yes But where would you rank him on the list of starting pitchers? honestly


Also---I dont think pitchers snare the casual fans to come to the part these days most people come to see the hitters----Pujols, A Fraud, Fielder, Howard, Mauer

So many teams have big time offensive talent---a lot of it home grown Even the Rays have Longoria

Is the last truly great player to come out of this organization Frank?

1) Yes, he's a star player. He's a Cy Young award winner. And on the list of starting pitchers, off the top of my head, I'd say he's top fiffteen-ish.

2) Your point was that we don't acquire big name players. We just took on Alex Rios and Jake Peavy. I'd say that's big name. Whether or not it was in free agency is irrelevant. Kenny Williams operates differently than other MLB GM's.

3) The last paragraph you posted is all in your head. Management doesn't "come at fans" for not selling out the stadium, and unless you actually work in the Sox front office and know something we all don't, don't come out putting words in peoples mouths and accuse the Sox of preparing to make a fire sale in the offseason when they haven't done so in years.

Nelfox02
04-10-2010, 03:54 PM
MLB GM's.

3) The last paragraph you posted is all in your head. Management doesn't "come at fans" for not selling out the stadium, and unless you actually work in the Sox front office and know something we all don't, don't come out putting words in peoples mouths and accuse the Sox of preparing to make a fire sale in the offseason when they haven't done so in years.


okay---I stated my belief, where do you see this team trending? Where is it going? are you on board with what they have done the last few years? which is basically to assemble product that is overall mediocre? Sure, this year they made a commitment to pitching----but they blantantly left the offense short

not trying to start an argument here---just curious as to how you view it

Rikirk
04-10-2010, 03:56 PM
I think all teams are characterized by an identity. Our team, I think is looked at as a HR hitting team. Should that be changed?...I dont know, its not my call. But it seems that the long ball is our forte...maybe it should be changed ....maybe not....i dunno, im just sayin.

Nelfox02
04-10-2010, 03:57 PM
1) Sox of preparing to make a fire sale in the offseason when they haven't done so in years.


second question to you---say this team is firmly in third, fast track to nowhere on 7-15 what do you think the sox do at the break?

Nada?

canOcorn
04-10-2010, 04:00 PM
Is Ozzie up there hitting?

Ozzie's made all the calls to get guys in scoring position and no one can execute.

Oh yeah, all Ozzie's fault. :rolleyes:

You do realize there less of a chance scoring a run from 2B with one out and 1B with no outs, right? All Ozzie's fault? No. A large part? Yes. Poor situational managing, at best, and it's the roster/DH tandem he wanted.

Wait six games into the season and if we are 1-5 Kenny must make a move? This is why some people in White Sox management get frustrated with their fanbase. 3% of the way done with the season and some people want changes.

Sadly, there's really not a move to be made at this point. This is an example of why people are frustrated with the Sox, we knew it was a **** offense and Kenny let Ozzie have his way. It's obvious by Kenny's comments that he wasn't sure about the offense, but it's his job to make a stand. Ozzie is responsible for continually making ****ty managerial decisions and Kenny is responsible for letting Ozzie have his way with the roster and, not only the acquisition of Teahen, but the buyout of his arbitration years. Shame on the Sox!

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 04:00 PM
okay---I stated my belief, where do you see this team trending? Where is it going? are you on board with what they have done the last few years? which is basically to assemble product that is overall mediocre? Sure, this year they made a commitment to pitching----but they blantantly left the offense short

not trying to start an argument here---just curious as to how you view it

I'm not happy at all with the offense. I'm really pissed about it, to be honest. But the last five years has included a World Series win, a 90 win season, and a division title. That isn't mediocre, it's pretty solid. If you want to dump it all because of 2007 and 2009, that's your prerogative. What I see in this team is a lot of guys with massive talent/abilty and/or potential (Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Beckham, Quentin, Ramirez, ect...). The offense isn't hitting the ball. That isn't cause for a fire sale. That's when you fix things, because you're on the right track. We aren't becoming the Astros any time soon.

doublem23
04-10-2010, 04:01 PM
We're getting great pitching, it's time to empty the farm and bring in some bats. I don't care who, we need 1, maybe 2.

This pitching staff is for real. Time to stop wasting their effort.

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 04:02 PM
second question to you---say this team is firmly in third, fast track to nowhere on 7-15 what do you think the sox do at the break?

Nada?

I think Kenny is aggressive enough to make a move before that happens.

Nelfox02
04-10-2010, 04:05 PM
That isn't cause for a fire sale. That's when you fix things, because you're on the right track. We aren't becoming the Astros any time soon.


I agree with you in that there is no reason for a fire sale (I feel that any major market team should never have a fire sale, and whether they feel it or not this is a major market team) it is my FEAR that a fire sale could be coming if these early trends continue

what do you (or anyone else on this board) think they do if they are firmly third, clearly will likely not catch the Twins or Tigers let alone capture a pennant as the trade dead line approaches? my position is they would try to dump any tradebale part they can......that could lead to even worse in the off season

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 04:07 PM
I agree with you in that there is no reason for a fire sale (I feel that any major market team should never have a fire sale, and whether they feel it or not this is a major market team) it is my FEAR that a fire sale could be coming if these early trends continue

what do you (or anyone else on this board) think they do if they are firmly third, clearly will likely not catch the Twins or Tigers let alone capture a pennant as the trade dead line approaches? my position is they would try to dump any tradebale part they can......that could lead to even worse in the off season

I think you could see Konerko traded (if he keeps hitting like he's hitting now), as he's in a contract year. Maybe AJ gets moved, and Flowers gets called up. Other than that, I don't know if anything else happens.

soltrain21
04-10-2010, 04:08 PM
I agree with you in that there is no reason for a fire sale (I feel that any major market team should never have a fire sale, and whether they feel it or not this is a major market team) it is my FEAR that a fire sale could be coming if these early trends continue

what do you (or anyone else on this board) think they do if they are firmly third, clearly will likely not catch the Twins or Tigers let alone capture a pennant as the trade dead line approaches? my position is they would try to dump any tradebale part they can......that could lead to even worse in the off season

You probably see them try to trade AJ, Jenks and possibly Konerko.

BadBobbyJenks
04-10-2010, 04:09 PM
One trip through the rotation, none of our starters have given up 4 runs and we sit at 1-4. That is really frustrating.

I am usually pretty good at not being the guy who goes crazy on a fly ball that gets caught, but man I thought Rios got all of that one.

Ozzie is now 0-3 with the late inning bunt.

Nelfox02
04-10-2010, 04:13 PM
I think you could see Konerko traded (if he keeps hitting like he's hitting now), as he's in a contract year. Maybe AJ gets moved, and Flowers gets called up. Other than that, I don't know if anything else happens.


so lets roll this forward---a bit then, I agree Konerko AJ (and Jenks) likely pieces to get moved in exchange for meh prospects

obviously if they move the three guys above---what is a poor first half will turn really south in the second you have to think attendance and all other related revenues will fall what does that mean for the 2011 off season? will they basically say they have no available revenue to address the holes? or does this team actually go out and spend the required dime to make this team an honest to god contender out of the gate? not a team with a ton of ? and budget buy reclamations that if all goes well---just might contend

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 04:16 PM
so lets roll this forward---a bit then, I agree Konerko AJ (and Jenks) likely pieces to get moved in exchange for meh prospects

obviously if they move the three guys above---what is a poor first half will turn really south in the second you have to think attendance and all other related revenues will fall what does that mean for the 2011 off season? will they basically say they have no available revenue to address the holes? or does this team actually go out and spend the required dime to make this team an honest to god contender out of the gate? not a team with a ton of ? and budget buy reclamations that if all goes well---just might contend

I couldn't tell you. I don't know who's going to be available, and I certainly don't know what management might be thinking in the event of a terrible season.

BainesHOF
04-10-2010, 04:20 PM
I'm afraid that Kenny and Ozzie are so "tight" that there will never be any significant changes made to the coaching staff. If there were, Ozzie would throw a fit and Oney would blab about it on Twitter.

Kenny and Ozzie are no longer tight thanks to all of Ozzie's B.S.

soxlady8
04-10-2010, 04:20 PM
and honestly we haven't gotten blown away yet ...
scary !!

BadBobbyJenks
04-10-2010, 04:20 PM
Adam Dunn would look great hitting 5th. Oh wait he is a base clogger.

SephClone89
04-10-2010, 04:21 PM
Adam Dunn would look great hitting 5th. Oh wait he is a base clogger.

Would be a perfect cleanup hitter for this team.

BainesHOF
04-10-2010, 04:24 PM
More garbage today. Rios, the only guy who's really hitting, doubles only to get doubled off second on a pretty routine fly out to left. Then Pierre does a Podsednik impersonation, letting a catchable fly ball down the line drop.

Ozzie stupidly brings in Linebrink with the game on the line and we get a miracle as Linebrink escapes out of a bases-loaded, nobody out jam unharmed. That was pure luck on Ozzie's part. I wonder if Ozzie was trying to stick it to Kenny Williams.

Garcia pitched great. Our pitching has been terrific so far, but our offense is just terrible. There's not much that can be done. One thing I'd do is stick Jones in center, move Pierre to DH and keep Kotsay out of the lineup. For the short term, I might also replace Ramirez with Vizquel and bat Vizquel second with Rios fifth and either A.J. or Beckham sixth with Jones eighth.

I still think there's hope for this team with its pitching.

kobo
04-10-2010, 04:24 PM
Yeah, it's Greg Walker's fault. :rolleyes:
I'm not going to put all the blame on Walker, but come on, it's the same **** as last year and there are new guys in the lineup. Everyone is trying to pull the ball or jack it out of the park, they can't score with RISP, the overall approach just isn't working. I know the players need to execute, but when you see the same trends with new guys in the lineup, then maybe a change in philosophy is needed.

GoGoCrede
04-10-2010, 04:26 PM
Just got home. I gotta tell you, after a week of seeing this crap in person, I'm sick of it. Where are you, offense? Even ****ing Linebrink showed up. I was so proud of him - and I've been known to groan loudly when he comes into the game.

My section was chock full of Twins fans, which didn't help my mood. The only positives that came from this game were the pitching, and the fact that I got a tan. Not much else.

From where I was sitting, it really looked like the wind robbed Rios of that homer.

The pitching has been really good this week. 0 runs, 3 runs, 2 runs, 2 runs - those are the number of runs our starters have allowed this week (I might have missed a few or gotten a few of the numbers wrong, but you get the idea).

Buehrle, please save us and this pathetic homestand.

kitekrazy
04-10-2010, 04:32 PM
Hope you like your ****ing team, Ozzie.

Sorry, but I believe Ozzie's the scapegoat for an organization that doesn't spend money and isn't doing much with it's farm system.

They put a bunch of stock in some over the hill players with the hopes of catching lightning in a bottle or get guys from organizations where losing is a habit.

The Yankees win by spending money, the Twins win by developing youth. The Sox are bad at both. I get tired of Jerry saying "come and we will build it". Is that what Dominos said when their pizzas sucked? "If you buy our lousy tasting pizza then we can improve them".

Sad that such a starting pitching staff is going to waste.

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 04:34 PM
Sorry, but I believe Ozzie's the scapegoat for an organization that doesn't spend money and isn't doing much with it's farm system.

They put a bunch of stock in some over the hill players with the hopes of catching lightning in a bottle or get guys from organizations where losing is a habit.

The Yankees win by spending money, the Twins win by developing youth. The Sox are bad at both. I get tired of Jerry saying "come and we will build it". Is that what Dominos said when their pizzas sucked? "If you buy our lousy tasting pizza then we can improve them".

Sad that such a starting pitching staff is going to waste.

:rolleyes:

BadBobbyJenks
04-10-2010, 04:36 PM
Sorry, but I believe Ozzie's the scapegoat for an organization that doesn't spend money and isn't doing much with it's farm system.




7th highest payroll in baseball, try again.

jabrch
04-10-2010, 04:40 PM
Sorry, but I believe Ozzie's the scapegoat for an organization that doesn't spend money and isn't doing much with it's farm system.

I can't believe we still hear this...

Nelfox02
04-10-2010, 04:49 PM
The Yankees win by spending money, the Twins win by developing youth. The Sox are bad at both. I get tired of Jerry saying "come and we will build it". Is that what Dominos said when their pizzas sucked? "If you buy our lousy tasting pizza then we can improve them".

Sad that such a starting pitching staff is going to waste.


100% in agree with this post The sox are sitting 7th overall? dont worry people--that will continue to trend down until we are fimrly below 100 mil and back in the middle of the pack

note that when this happens tho---ticket prices will not be adjusted down to middle of the pack for MLB teams tho

everyone (including the managment) saw there was a problem with this line up going in---and Jim Thome was not the answer (altho having big Jim back here would be helpful) token pursuit of Damon simply not good enough we needed matsui--and he was attainable

Dunn??? Jack Cust? make peace with Dye? something? anyone?? anyone?

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 04:51 PM
100% in agree with this post The sox are sitting 7th overall? dont worry people--that will continue to trend down until we are fimrly below 100 mil and back in the middle of the pack

note that when this happens tho---ticket prices will not be adjusted down to middle of the pack for MLB teams tho

Will you cut it out with this ridiculous bull****?

BadBobbyJenks
04-10-2010, 04:56 PM
100% in agree with this post The sox are sitting 7th overall? dont worry people--that will continue to trend down until we are fimrly below 100 mil and back in the middle of the pack

note that when this happens tho---ticket prices will not be adjusted down to middle of the pack for MLB teams tho

everyone (including the managment) saw there was a problem with this line up going in---and Jim Thome was not the answer (altho having big Jim back here would be helpful) token pursuit of Damon simply not good enough we needed matsui--and he was attainable

Dunn??? Jack Cust? make peace with Dye? something? anyone?? anyone?

Except our payroll went up by 12 million this season. Next?

TheOldRoman
04-10-2010, 04:56 PM
This is the type of team he wanted.It's the team YOU wanted, too. All except for them keeping Konerko. You have bitched for the last 5 years about getting Juan Pierre. Four games into his tenure you renounced your like for him and declared him washed up. You said how we needed more speed and less base cloggers. We needed a more athletic team. Now Ozzie is a ****ing moron and you are free to criticize him? Give me a break.

I am not saying I love the team as constructed but it is amazing how fast people are reversing themselves and jumping ship to declare the season over. Mark Teahen is the worst player of all-time, Alexei might not get a hit until May, Freddy was going to give up 20 runs today, etc. The most ridiculous thing has been Rios having a homer and a couple frozen ropes in the first two games, then being declared a failure by some and responsible for Wednesday's loss ("That is why Toronto got rid of him"). Then when he was moved to LF the next day the same people bitched "HE IS OUR CF OF THE FUTURE!"

It's Dankerific
04-10-2010, 05:23 PM
Take it easy everyone. Games in April don't count as much as games in September, and games against division foes don't mean 2 games in the standings.

Stop stealing my material.

I really wish people would stop saying this.

I really wish the Sox would play (and be managed) like these games count.

Foulke You
04-10-2010, 05:34 PM
5 quality starts and we sit at 1W-4L. This pitching staff will keep us in contention of we can just give them ANY kind of offense to work with. 10 runs in 36 innings is crazy bad for our offense.

Again, like 2009, all the hitters seem to be pressing too. Lots of bats slamming and players screaming expletives after popping up. The slumps are more contagious than H1N1 at 35th and Shields.

A. Cavatica
04-10-2010, 05:45 PM
I think you could see Konerko traded (if he keeps hitting like he's hitting now), as he's in a contract year.

Seriously? He's untradeable, unless the Sox eat half his contract.

guillen4life13
04-10-2010, 05:46 PM
I think the offense will turn around, but this has just been an early hole that they need to dig out of. They can't let this grow, or else they're going to play catch up the rest of the season. The pitching has been especially encouraging. I don't expect the offense to hit below .200 for the whole season.

I'd just like for them to wake up sooner rather than later, because much later could be too late.

Teahen, Pierre, Jones, Ramirez, Kotsay and Pierzynski are all going to avoid ending the year with the sub .500 OPS's they have now. Dark cloud all you want, but even the biggest pessimist could agree with that statement.

Rios has looked solid with his approach to the plate. Sure, he's had a couple bad at bats, but he has been creaming the ball a bit. Konerko is doing well. Beckham has also looked alright for the most part. Quentin has some results but I haven't liked the way he's looked at the plate.

As for the pitching, they've given up 16 runs in 49 innings, for a 2.94 ERA. Starters gave up 0, 3, 2, 1, and 2 runs in their first go round with a combined 2.32 ERA. It's hard not to be optimistic after this first go round with them.

JB98
04-10-2010, 05:51 PM
5 quality starts and we sit at 1W-4L. This pitching staff will keep us in contention of we can just give them ANY kind of offense to work with. 10 runs in 36 innings is crazy bad for our offense.

Again, like 2009, all the hitters seem to be pressing too. Lots of bats slamming and players screaming expletives after popping up. The slumps are more contagious than H1N1 at 35th and Shields.

Here's my question: Why are these guys pressing? :angry:

They all have guaranteed contracts. They are all millionaires whether they strike out or hit a home run. They think playing Major League Baseball is pressure? Bull****. I've had it with these hitters, and the ****ing hitting coach too. I'm tired of hearing the same excuses I've been hearing for three years.

These pitchers have had a terrific first week. It's absolutely inexcusable that our starting pitchers have only one victory to show for their efforts.

Great job by Garcia. I know not everyone here believes he can still pitch at this level. I do. The hitters? They can all jump in the lake for all I care.

delben91
04-10-2010, 06:00 PM
I've never considered myself a pessimist, and I haven't seen any of the games on TV (maybe a good thing), so I'm basing this only on box scores.

That said, with this team it seems like the instant they fall behind, all hope is gone. Does it even look like they were still playing hard after going down 2-1 today, or did it look like they had given up?

Tomorrow is a new day and all that stuff, but averaging 1 win a week would be an incredibly embarrassing way to spend a season. Yikes. :(:

doublem23
04-10-2010, 06:00 PM
Here's my question: Why are these guys pressing? :angry:

They all have guaranteed contracts. They are all millionaires whether they strike out or hit a home run. They think playing Major League Baseball is pressure? Bull****. I've had it with these hitters, and the ****ing hitting coach too. I'm tired of hearing the same excuses I've been hearing for three years.

These pitchers have had a terrific first week. It's absolutely inexcusable that our starting pitchers have only one victory to show for their efforts.

Great job by Garcia. I know not everyone here believes he can still pitch at this level. I do. The hitters? They can all jump in the lake for all I care.

Seriously, what is there to press about? The pitching has been superb. They had to score THREE RUNS TODAY. Three runs? You're getting your stomach in a knot over THREE RUNS????

Ridiculous. Oh, if Alex's flyout in the 9th had 5 more feet under it. Today would have been so grand. :whiner:

It's Dankerific
04-10-2010, 06:06 PM
Great job by Garcia. I know not everyone here believes he can still pitch at this level. I do. The hitters? They can all jump in the lake for all I care.

I couldnt watch the game but I am definitely surprised by Freddy's box score. I wouldnt mind you being right, about this one.

Still generally pessimistic about him, though.

sullythered
04-10-2010, 06:08 PM
Really frustrating offensive performance today. I will say this, though: If Freddy Garcia has that stuff all year, we have, by a mile, the best #5 in baseball.

Over By There
04-10-2010, 06:08 PM
Ozzie stupidly brings in Linebrink with the game on the line and we get a miracle as Linebrink escapes out of a bases-loaded, nobody out jam unharmed. That was pure luck on Ozzie's part. I wonder if Ozzie was trying to stick it to Kenny Williams.


I read through the calls to fire the manager and hitting coach, and the calls to empty the farm system to bring in a bat (all after game 5), and shrugged it off. But I think the post above illustrates the vicious negative groupthink that takes over WSI when the Sox lose a few games in a row. Ozzie is an idiot when things go wrong, and Ozzie is lucky when things go right.

I'm not making any excuses for some of Ozzie's comments about the fans, but look again at what he has purportedly said through the lens of the quote above.

sullythered
04-10-2010, 06:09 PM
I couldnt watch the game but I am definitely surprised by Freddy's box score. I wouldnt mind you being right, about this one.

Still generally pessimistic about him, though.

Freddy was hitting the low 90's consistently throughout the game.

doublem23
04-10-2010, 06:16 PM
Freddy was hitting the low 90's consistently throughout the game.

He pitched fantastic today. If he can keep his velocity in the 90s this season, he'll be a surprise, for sure. I only worry about the health of his arm if that's what happens.

Most frustrating thing about today is how many games are we going to get 9 combined innings from Garcia and Linebrink of 2-run baseball? You just can't waste those.

russ99
04-10-2010, 06:36 PM
Maybe Ozzie needs to try something different tomorrow:

1 - Pierre - LF
2 - Vizquel - 3B
3 - Rios - CF
4 - Quentin - RF
5 - Konerko - 1B
6 - Beckham - 2B
7 - Teahen (or Jones, but Teahen had some decent at bats today) - DH
8 - Lucy - C
9 - Ramirez - SS

Hosey22
04-10-2010, 06:38 PM
I think the most frustrating part of the season so far is that a lot of people saw this coming. Historically the DH by committee doesn't work. We have no hitter in our lineup that really poses a major threat to pitchers, therefore we have no protection for the better hitters in our lineup. Quentin doesn't have a proper cleanup hitter, and Paulie has Kotsay/Jones batting behind him. Pitchers can attack with complete confidence knowing that should a someone get on base they can just deal with the next guy.

On top of that we have a hitting coach whose main approach has been "Let the hitters work it out." Personally I think we have been hitting below our capabilities since Walker has been here. I know there are people that will cry that it is not Walkers fault which it is not 'entirely,' but sometimes a fresh approach is needed and it is obvious that the time for one is now. I feel like we have a lot of new players on this team that somehow are performing exactly as previous players have. Over the years our offense has reminded me a lot of Walker as a player; medium to low average and decent power. Ozzie wants a team that has speed and can do the little things and I don't think Walker knows how to properly coax that out of his players since he never performed like that.

cards press box
04-10-2010, 06:45 PM
Someone wake Jermaine Dye up and tell him to come here and play

Adam Dunn would look great hitting 5th. Oh wait he is a base clogger.

In this 1-4 start, the Sox team ERA is 2.76, good for 4th in the AL and 7th in the majors. Unfortunately, their .186 team average is dead last in the AL and 29th in the majors. Geez, when did the 1968 Sox show up?

Now, I do think the hitting will improve, as the Sox offense is probably the worst offense in the league. But they may need some help. JD and Jack Cust are out there. Adam Dunn or Adrian Gonzalez might be available through a trade (although the price for Gonzalez is probably prohibitive). What realistically available moves would you all make?

Oh, if Alex's flyout in the 9th had 5 more feet under it. Today would have been so grand. :whiner:

I was there today and I have to say that Rios' fly in the 9th was one of the few flyballs that really fooled me over the years. When he it, I thought it was out. I assume that he must have gotten it somewhere toward the end of the bat.

doublem23
04-10-2010, 06:48 PM
I was there today and I have to say that Rios' fly in the 9th was one of the few flyballs that really fooled me over the years. When he it, I thought it was out. I assume that he must have gotten it somewhere toward the end of the bat.

I was in 108 just inside the RF line and I really thought that ball was gone. Wherever he hit it, he missed the game winner by literally fractions of an inch.

MinnySoxFan
04-10-2010, 06:56 PM
What really annoys me about this series is how many Twins fans have been at the game the past 2 days. I mean it's like all their fans have decided to trek down and try to piss us all off. I saw one moron running up and down the underpass using Hawk's phrases. That guy was asking for a beating...

mcfish
04-10-2010, 06:56 PM
Yeah, it's Greg Walker's fault. :rolleyes:
Then it's Kenny's fault for not giving him talented enough players to get the job done. Either way it's somebody's fault because the White Sox offense has been ****ty for far longer than just 6 games and there has been neither progression from the existing talent (Walker's job) nor an improvement in talent (Kenny's job) to make the offense better.

bacon
04-10-2010, 07:02 PM
Except our payroll went up by 12 million this season. Next?

Unfortunately our increase in payroll has not lead to an increase in offense.

veeter
04-10-2010, 07:14 PM
For what it's worth, the Angels are 1-4, the Red Sox are 1-3, and the White Sox are 1-4. Something tells me we're over-reacting a little bit.

Frater Perdurabo
04-10-2010, 07:17 PM
It's the team YOU wanted, too. All except for them keeping Konerko. You have bitched for the last 5 years about getting Juan Pierre. Four games into his tenure you renounced your like for him and declared him washed up. You said how we needed more speed and less base cloggers. We needed a more athletic team. Now Ozzie is a ****ing moron and you are free to criticize him? Give me a break.

I haven't advocated trading Paulie in a long time. This team really needs him to produce like he did from 2004-2006. I'd settle for an .850 OPS.

Yes, I was excited about getting Pierre. I still think he will have a better season than Pods.

I was not excited about the 3B or the DH situation.

This team really needs two players: a 3B who can hit and field, and a left-handed OF/1B/DH who can mash. At least one of them needs to hit for a good average, and the other needs to put up a high OPS.

bacon
04-10-2010, 07:18 PM
Bat buerhle 5th tomorrow....

GoGoCrede
04-10-2010, 07:20 PM
I was in 108 just inside the RF line and I really thought that ball was gone. Wherever he hit it, he missed the game winner by literally fractions of an inch.

I was in 540 and we were all on our feet, sure that was the game winner. I felt dumb afterward that I'd been fooled, but looking back on it, it looked very, very close. He was robbed.

For what it's worth, the Angels are 1-4, the Red Sox are 1-3, and the White Sox are 1-4. Something tells me we're over-reacting a little bit.

This does make me feel better. But while I haven't paid close attention to those two teams so far this year, I really doubt they have the same gaping holes that we do.

veeter
04-10-2010, 07:23 PM
I was in 540 and we were all on our feet, sure that was the game winner. I felt dumb afterward that I'd been fooled, but looking back on it, it looked very, very close. He was robbed.



This does make me feel better. But while I haven't paid close attention to those two teams so far this year, I really doubt they have the same gaping holes that we do.They're probably saying the same thing about the Sox. Or, "With that pitching, it's only a matter of time before they start winning." Everyone is harder on their own team. I really think the Sox will start winning.

Lip Man 1
04-10-2010, 07:39 PM
This and that:

According to a story on the Tribune web site the Sox are now 5-35 with runners in scoring position this season.

Agree with JB's point, the players have already started telling the media this week that they are "pressing," or "trying to do to much..." Pressing? After a week?? Maybe these guys are mentally soft if that's the case. (Personally I've said that for a few years about these guys and dovetail that with the lack of outspoken leadership.)

Should Kenny want to try to get some hitters, these guys may be available at some point this year (based on how their teams are doing since they'll be free agents after the season) Ironically this list was in the print edition of The Sporting News (page 14) which I got today:

Derrick Lee
Orlando Hudson
Carl Crawford
Jayson Werth
Victor Martinez

That's just for starters.

Also again according to the Tribune the Twins have beaten the Sox 13 of 15 dating back to last May and have won six straight at U.S. Cellular Field (It wasn't just the Dome folks...)

Lip

Heffalump
04-10-2010, 07:46 PM
Should Kenny want to try to get some hitters, these guys may be available at some point this year (based on how their teams are doing since they'll be free agents after the season) Ironically this list was in the print edition of The Sporting News (page 14) which I got today:

Derrick Lee
Orlando Hudson
Carl Crawford
Jayson Werth
Victor Martinez

Lip

Have I been smoking crack, or isn't Orlando Hudson the starting 2B for the Twins? Why would they trade him to the Sox? Please wake up, Sporting News.

ChiSoxGirl
04-10-2010, 07:50 PM
Thank God I've been in Myrtle Beach all week!!! Regardless, I've been the recipient of nightly updates, anyway, and have been disgusted by what's been told to me. :angry:

Lip Man 1
04-10-2010, 07:52 PM
Heff:

No one (including The Sporting News) said they were going to trade him to the Sox or anywhere. They simply listed players who will be free agents after the season.

I SAID that if Kenny is looking for hitters these guys may be available depending on how their team is doing (and also if they feel they can sign them to an extension...)

No the Twins wouldn't deal Hudson to the Sox under any circumstances but they could deal him to a third team who then could in theory send him to the Sox.

If Kenny even wanted him.

Lip

JB98
04-10-2010, 07:59 PM
This and that:

According to a story on the Tribune web site the Sox are now 5-35 with runners in scoring position this season.

Agree with JB's point, the players have already started telling the media this week that they are "pressing," or "trying to do to much..." Pressing? After a week?? Maybe these guys are mentally soft if that's the case. (Personally I've said that for a few years about these guys and dovetail that with the lack of outspoken leadership.)

Should Kenny want to try to get some hitters, these guys may be available at some point this year (based on how their teams are doing since they'll be free agents after the season) Ironically this list was in the print edition of The Sporting News (page 14) which I got today:

Derrick Lee
Orlando Hudson
Carl Crawford
Jayson Werth
Victor Martinez

That's just for starters.

Also again according to the Tribune the Twins have beaten the Sox 13 of 15 dating back to last May and have won six straight at U.S. Cellular Field (It wasn't just the Dome folks...)

Lip

Just to follow up: If "it's early," like everyone says, then why are the players pressing? If a couple tough losses the first week of the season are no big deal, than there is really no excuse to be pressing.

Part of the reason I'm so alarmed as a fan is the players seem alarmed. The long faces, the moping, the bat-slamming, all that crap has started again already. A couple of times today, I could hear Sox hitters shouting expletives after pop-ups. Do these guys not enjoy playing the game of baseball at all? I know that I have trouble watching them when they play the game like this.

JB98
04-10-2010, 08:02 PM
I haven't advocated trading Paulie in a long time. This team really needs him to produce like he did from 2004-2006. I'd settle for an .850 OPS.

Yes, I was excited about getting Pierre. I still think he will have a better season than Pods.

I was not excited about the 3B or the DH situation.

This team really needs two players: a 3B who can hit and field, and a left-handed OF/1B/DH who can mash. At least one of them needs to hit for a good average, and the other needs to put up a high OPS.

Those days are gone, Frater. Paulie is 34 years old. He's not on steroids, so he won't get better as he moves into his mid- to late-30s like some other sluggers we've seen over the last decade.

Paulie is a No. 6 hitter at this stage of his career. He's being asked to hit cleanup on this team, because the middle of the order was not addressed over the offseason.

Frater Perdurabo
04-10-2010, 08:22 PM
Those days are gone, Frater. Paulie is 34 years old. He's not on steroids, so he won't get better as he moves into his mid- to late-30s like some other sluggers we've seen over the last decade.

Paulie is a No. 6 hitter at this stage of his career. He's being asked to hit cleanup on this team, because the middle of the order was not addressed over the offseason.

Oh, I know. :(:

Looking ahead, it would be nice if Viciedo, Flowers, Danks, Morel and Mitchell could all pan out for the Sox. Of course, the odds suggest only two of those guys will pan out, and given KW's proclivity for making trades, it probably won't be with the Sox.

JB98
04-10-2010, 08:35 PM
Oh, I know. :(:

Looking ahead, it would be nice if Viciedo, Flowers, Danks, Morel and Mitchell could all pan out for the Sox. Of course, the odds suggest only two of those guys will pan out, and given KW's proclivity for making trades, it probably won't be with the Sox.

That injury really, really hurts. I had really high hopes for Mitchell, but this serious ankle injury is going to cost him the year. :(:

SI1020
04-10-2010, 08:42 PM
Oh, I know. :(:

Looking ahead, it would be nice if Viciedo, Flowers, Danks, Morel and Mitchell could all pan out for the Sox. Of course, the odds suggest only two of those guys will pan out, and given KW's proclivity for making trades, it probably won't be with the Sox. I'll be very surprised if Viciedo is one of them.

Waysouthsider
04-10-2010, 08:46 PM
That injury really, really hurts. I had really high hopes for Mitchell, but this serious ankle injury is going to cost him the year. :(:

Agreed...this is SUCH a drag...that kid has real talent!

oeo
04-10-2010, 08:55 PM
Hitting with RISP has been a problem for years now, for the most part. With the exception of 2006 when they were great, they haven't been very good. Players have come and gone and it's still an issue. The problem has to be deeper. There's no reason for "pressing" 5 games into the year. They were "pressing" in the second game, too?

I think what they're (still) lacking is true leadership, which has been gone since Rowand and Everett departed. The only thing I can think of as to why they would be pressing after losing their 3-0 lead in the second game is the general feeling of, "here we go again" in the clubhouse. Beckham's and Quentin's body language last night after Teahen grounded into the double play in the 10th confirm that feeling to me. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and pick each other up. That was one of the greatest qualities of that 2005 team: they never felt like they were out of it, and if I don't get this done, I know the guy behind me will pick me up. That's the mindset you need to take.

Mark me down in the column of "it's still early." Even if you hate this offense, no offense bats .150 for an entire season. Even if you don't like Mark Teahen, the guy is a career .270 hitter. Even if you hate Juan Pierre, he's a .300 career hitter, not .150. They're going to get better, it can't get worse.

However, these early season games could have larger implications if they fall into the wrong mental habits. Time to fix the problem now and assure each other that they're a team and they will pick each other up.

JB98
04-10-2010, 09:01 PM
Hitting with RISP has been a problem for years now, for the most part. With the exception of 2006 when they were great, they haven't been very good. Players have come and gone and it's still an issue. The problem has to be deeper. There's no reason for "pressing" 5 games into the year. They were "pressing" in the second game, too?

I think what they're (still) lacking is true leadership, which has been gone since Rowand and Everett departed. The only thing I can think of as to why they would be pressing after losing their 3-0 lead in the second game is the general feeling of, "here we go again" in the clubhouse. Beckham's and Quentin's body language last night after Quentin grounded into the double play in the 10th confirm that feeling to me. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and pick each other up. That was one of the greatest qualities of that 2005 team: they never felt like they were out of it. That's the mindset you need to take.

Mark me down in the column of "it's still early." Even if you hate this offense, no offense bats .150 for an entire season. Even if you don't like Mark Teahen, the guy is a career .270 hitter. Even if you hate Juan Pierre, he's a .300 career hitter, not .150. They're going to get better, it can't get worse.

However, these early season games could have larger implications if they fall into the wrong mental habits. Time to fix the problem now and assure each other that they're a team and they will pick each other up.

Solid post. As I mentioned earlier, I'm in "here we go again" mode because the players seem to be in "here we go again" mode.

I can't believe in these players until they start believing in themselves. Maybe they should play "Don't Stop Believin'" on the clubhouse stereo. That will get them out of the slump.

oeo
04-10-2010, 09:24 PM
Solid post. As I mentioned earlier, I'm in "here we go again" mode because the players seem to be in "here we go again" mode.

I can't believe in these players until they start believing in themselves. Maybe they should play "Don't Stop Believin'" on the clubhouse stereo. That will get them out of the slump.

They need that "defining moment." It sounds stupid, but I believe in that crap. Whether it's something that happens in the clubhouse, a big comeback, a brawl, whatever, they all need to know that they have each others' backs.

And there's only two guys that I think can step into that leadership role and they're Peavy and Beckham. What sucks is one is a starting pitcher and the other is a second year player. The only way I can see Peavy getting involved in firing the offense up is if he needs to give the opposing team a little chin music.

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 09:30 PM
They need that "defining moment." It sounds stupid, but I believe in that crap. Whether it's something that happens in the clubhouse, a big comeback, a brawl, whatever, they all need to know that they have each others' backs.

And there's only two guys that I think can step into that leadership role and they're Peavy and Beckham. What sucks is one is a starting pitcher and the other is a second year player. The only way I can see Peavy getting involved in firing the offense up is if he needs to give the opposing team a little chin music.

Peavy can do it just fine, if he wishes. I'm sure he's willing to get in people's faces if they keep backing up the starting pitching with dog**** hitting like this. He dealt with this for the last couple years in San Diego.

JB98
04-10-2010, 09:32 PM
They need that "defining moment." It sounds stupid, but I believe in that crap. Whether it's something that happens in the clubhouse, a big comeback, a brawl, whatever, they all need to know that they have each others' backs.

And there's only two guys that I think can step into that leadership role and they're Peavy and Beckham. What sucks is one is a starting pitcher and the other is a second year player. The only way I can see Peavy getting involved in firing the offense up is if he needs to give the opposing team a little chin music.

Well, the 2000 Sox team was galvanized by that brawl with the Tigers. That stuff does happen sometimes.

Marqhead
04-10-2010, 10:04 PM
Great posts on this page. I'm not one to freak out over 5 games usually, I supposed I'm just a little more on edge from what appears to me to be lethargic play at the plate.

Pitching for the most part has been great so far, it will be nice when Floyd, Danks and Peavy get a little more settled in and can go 7 innings deep so the bullpen isn't so taxed.

I would like to see something light a fire under this team's ass soon, I don't want them to be asleep for the 7 game road trip.

Get your **** together guys.

Lip Man 1
04-10-2010, 10:13 PM
OEO:

Very good post...but the question is, as has been said for the past few years, who gets in someone's face... who breaks toilet smashing it up, who destroys a water cooler, who stands up in the middle of the locker room and screams "I've had enough of this half assed **** and if you don't like me saying it, we can go at it right here..."

There's nobody. Peavy won't do it because he just got here, Beckham can't do it because no one will listen to him. A.J. has mellowed...he won't do it anymore.

That's the downsaide to have great leaders by example like Thome, Dye, Buehrle, Konerko. Great players, fine people, but not the type of vocal leaders you need for a professional clubhouse.

The Sox don't have anybody in the mold of Ozzie when he played, or Nellie Fox or Jim Landis or Scott Fletcher or Greg Hibbard or Jack McDowell...guys who wouldn't take **** or a half hearted effort.

I do'nt know maybe Kenny and Ozzie want it that way.

Lip

guillensdisciple
04-10-2010, 10:15 PM
Think about it like this, we have a team hitting .182 as a whole. That average will bottom out at .250 at the worst. So, the Sox will begin hitting better, and this pitching staff will continue dominating.

End result is a White Sox team that will be a very succesful baseball squad.

ndgt10
04-10-2010, 10:16 PM
We're on pace to win 32 games. Don't panic yet!

oeo
04-10-2010, 10:30 PM
Peavy can do it just fine, if he wishes. I'm sure he's willing to get in people's faces if they keep backing up the starting pitching with dog**** hitting like this. He dealt with this for the last couple years in San Diego.

I think that would cause a bigger problem, to be honest, i.e. a split in the clubhouse. A position player needs to call out the offense, just as only a pitcher should call out the pitching.

This will be Beckham's team next year if Konerko and AJ are both gone, I just hope something happens this year so he can take it over a year early. He's not a guy that's going to be flipping tables (at least it doesn't seem that way), but he definitely has the characteristics to be more than a "leader by example". The great "leaders by example" who do nothing but mope around when the going gets tough.

thomas35forever
04-10-2010, 11:11 PM
Freddy did not deserve that loss. This offense better shape up soon or it's gonna be a LONG season. At this point, I'm not even sure it'll wake up at all over the next 157 games.

Is there ANYTHING to look forward to in this town now?

Hegewisch
04-10-2010, 11:29 PM
Wow ! My first year as a Split Season Ticket holder and I have in person witnessed 1 Win and 2 Losses. I hope something changes fast before a "Downward Spiral" begins..........:(:

Mohoney
04-11-2010, 12:25 AM
Well, that was too bad. The pitchers deserved better.

The pitchers have deserved better the past 4 days. Floyd, Danks, Freddy, Santos (Thursday), Pena (yesterday), and Linebrink (today), have ALL been royally screwed over by this offense, and God forbid they win a game for Peavy and pick him up on a day where he didn't have his best stuff.

One trip through the rotation, and the only game we can win is a game where we hold the other team to 0 runs? Pathetic. 4 innings with a chance to win a game by merely plating a single run, and we do nothing against immortals like Jensen Lewis and Brian Duensing? Pathetic.

cards press box
04-11-2010, 01:19 AM
For what it's worth, the Angels are 1-4, the Red Sox are 1-3, and the White Sox are 1-4. Something tells me we're over-reacting a little bit.

I would rate the chances of 2 of those 3 teams making the playoffs as excellent and of all three making the playoffs as quite good. The first week gets magnified because the season just started. If the Angels had a week like this in June, no one would notice.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-11-2010, 09:02 AM
What worries me as much as our offense is the fact that the Twins are stacked. Even without Nathan, they're not missing a beat and are probably even better this year. Although our staff has looked great - so has theirs. Slowey and Liriano have both had great starts already. J.J. Hardy looks good at short. As a sleeper, they've still got D Young's upside. They went 3-1 in LA and now 2-0 at our house. Meanwhile, we're 1-4 at home. Those are the main reasons why it's not too early, for me at least, to be extremely concerned. If we fall too far behind there will be no catching the Twins. We really need Buehrle today.

Lip Man 1
04-11-2010, 11:23 AM
JB, OEO etc:

This quote may interst you (given what's been discussed here on 'pressure')...

"But [hitters] are pressing and trying to do too much. I see guys trying to hit the ball out of the park instead of getting a base hit. I see so many low faces, worrying and doubting themselves."

Ozzie Guillen to the Sun-Times.

When have we seen these quotes before?

Lip

Lip Man 1
04-11-2010, 11:57 AM
Last night I passed along some of what I thought were terrific points in this thread to one of the beat writers. I just got their reply back this morning...just FYI:

"Thanks for sharing these posts. The large majority of e-mailers have expressed to me their discontent with Teahen.

If they say they're pressing, then it's a copout. They did pretty well on opening day in front of their largest crowd. Their strikeout total on Thursday and 5-for-35 RISP points to their lack of intelligence in adapting to the situation - something I truly believe they'd improve on.

And if this continues to go south, it can become even uglier with vets in their final years of contracts, some already in the middle of large contracts, etc.

I wonder how patient K. Williams will be if this malaise continues."

One comment about this person's thoughts is the lack of intelligence aspect. I know I've been asking if the players the Sox have been getting the past few years are simply "baseball stupid" regarding the fundamental aspects of the game or if it reflects a deeper issue, that the coaching staff are simply bad teachers.

Lip

hawkjt
04-11-2010, 12:38 PM
What really annoys me about this series is how many Twins fans have been at the game the past 2 days. I mean it's like all their fans have decided to trek down and try to piss us all off. I saw one moron running up and down the underpass using Hawk's phrases. That guy was asking for a beating...


I agree. On Friday nite, we had a whole row of them behind us, and they were annoying....one loudmouth was making it hard to enjoy the game...a sox fan on the phone in front of us stood up and told him to shut up and it worked for a couple of innings.

Freddy was great. That is very encouraging.
Teahen did finally get a hit,that almost went out,and drove in a run..good.
Linebrink had a very good outing...great.

What has just bugged the heck outta me the last few years is how the Sox just cannot seem to find high average hitters...everybody in baseball has a few,and the Sox cannot draft and develope .300 hitters...cept for Gordon.
I look at the Angels having 6-7 .300 hitters last year and wonder...what is out problem?

BadBobbyJenks
04-11-2010, 01:00 PM
This was one of the most rational postgame threads I have ever read. Wish I would have stayed on yesterday and seen the discussion of the last two pages.