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View Full Version : *Official* "White Sox Baseball: It's Brown and Green" 4/9 Postgame Thread


october23sp
04-09-2010, 10:50 PM
Discuss:angry:

TheCommander
04-09-2010, 10:52 PM
Discuss:angry:

A little early, aren't you?

october23sp
04-09-2010, 10:53 PM
A little early, aren't you?

I accidently clicked enter.:redface:

Blueprint1
04-09-2010, 10:54 PM
We all know why we lost.

spongyfungy
04-09-2010, 10:54 PM
I lol'd when this was posted in chat

KnightSox
04-09-2010, 10:54 PM
Too many wasted opportunities.

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 10:54 PM
Hopefully Guillen will give Teahen as many chances as he gave BA.

Linebrink should only pitch in mop-up situations.

And it doesn't help when your lead-off hitter has an average under .120

peelwonder
04-09-2010, 10:54 PM
As I said in the Game Thread....I Luv me some Ozzie Ball.....

Viva Medias B's
04-09-2010, 10:55 PM
*feeling like Doug and O.B. after a bad Bears loss*

MarkZ35
04-09-2010, 10:55 PM
I hope it's not going to be one of those long summers.

Baron
04-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Jones......Kotsay.....they both suck

TheCommander
04-09-2010, 10:55 PM
I accidently clicked enter.:redface:

Unfortunately, it still rings true. :(: I only got to see the 10th and 11th inning, so let me be the first one to complain about the umpiring in that last inning. :angry:

BRDSR
04-09-2010, 10:55 PM
This is getting old.

Also, I threw up a little in my mouth when I saw Thome hi-fivin' after the game.

102605
04-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Well my excitement for the White Sox season is pretty much over. I will just have to enjoy baseball in general.

Danielgosox38
04-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Well Ozzie, you got your team. Hope you are happy.

JB98
04-09-2010, 10:56 PM
As always, Walk has the hitters ready to go right out of the gate.

VMSNS
04-09-2010, 10:56 PM
It's only the 4th game and I already hate this team.

Oh, and the officiating was horse**** is the last two innings.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 10:56 PM
Time and time again this team proves that no matter who is on the roster, it plays incomprehensibly stupid baseball: fielding errors, bullpen walks, baserunning errors, failure to execute.

When will the Ozzpologists ever admit that maybe, just maybe, Ozzie shares some blame?

Brian26
04-09-2010, 10:56 PM
Notwithstanding a couple of critical blown calls (Beckham tag at 2nd, Pena blown third strike), the Sox deserved to lose this one.

Bad game, and it is quickly becoming apparent that we're missing a couple of bats in the lineup.

russ99
04-09-2010, 10:56 PM
As I said in the Game Thread....I Luv me some Ozzie Ball.....

Nothing wrong with Ozzie ball, but someone needs to get a hit to drive guys in. Rios looks like the only decent hitter we have right now.

aryzner
04-09-2010, 10:56 PM
****ing **** piece of **** ****ing ****ty **** **** ****

HIT THE ****ING BALL


I feel a little better now having gotten that out.

Dibbs
04-09-2010, 10:56 PM
I would be much more upset if I expected this team to score runs like so many others expected. The offense will not be fine over the course of the season imo.

october23sp
04-09-2010, 10:57 PM
****ing pathetic. When will it be called simply reacting and not "overreacting?"

Soxman219
04-09-2010, 10:57 PM
My head hurts. So much losing tonight I don't know what to do. The only team in the Central with a losing record. This sucks.

Viva Medias B's
04-09-2010, 10:57 PM
Jones......Kotsay.....they both suck

Examples of KW going right to the free agent clearance rack.

russ99
04-09-2010, 10:57 PM
I would be much more upset if I expected this team to score runs like so many others expected. The offense will not be fine over the course of the season imo.

We'll have to disagree. I expect major league hitters to execute once in awhile.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 10:57 PM
Bad game, and it is quickly becoming apparent that we're missing a couple of bats in the lineup.

It would be one thing if the bad batters played really good defense and ran the bases well, but they don't even do that.

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 10:57 PM
Well Ozzie, you got your team. Hope you are happy.

That may be the motto of the 2010 White Sox, good or bad.

DSpivack
04-09-2010, 10:57 PM
****ing **** piece of **** ****ing ****ty **** **** ****

HIT THE ****ING BALL


I feel a little better now having gotten that out.

You swear on an internet chat board, I'll have a glass of cherry coke and bourbon and take it on my opponents in whatever PS3 game I pick. To each their own. :tongue:

october23sp
04-09-2010, 10:58 PM
Examples of KW going right to the free agent clearance rack.

At the thrift store.

kidmccarthy
04-09-2010, 10:58 PM
when does nix replace teahen?

cheezheadsoxfan
04-09-2010, 10:58 PM
I'm not looking forward to tomorrow's game. Freddy pitching and the bullpen is already overused.
:angry:

102605
04-09-2010, 10:58 PM
I love the pointing of fingers at Ozzie. Yup totally OZZIE's fault. Sorry I can't stop laughing at that.

peelwonder
04-09-2010, 10:58 PM
Nothing wrong with Ozzie ball, but someone needs to get a hit to drive guys in. Rios looks like the only decent hitter we have right now.


I don't necessarily have a problem with it...I have a problem with the way Ozzie is so pigheadedly stubborn that he's got to have it his way....

RockJock07
04-09-2010, 10:58 PM
Have to start hitting, the pen is already gassed and it's only the 5th game of the season. I don't know if its the cold or what but this is brutal.

Teahen looks just brutal, with the except of Rios no one really hit the ball hard.

october23sp
04-09-2010, 10:58 PM
I'm not looking forward to tomorrow's game. Freddy pitching and the bullpen is already overused.
:angry:

Could be real ugly.

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 10:58 PM
Examples of KW going right to the free agent clearance rack.

Throw Teahen in that mix too.

BRDSR
04-09-2010, 10:59 PM
I hope it's not going to be one of those long summers.

The way it's looking now, it's going to be a long spring...but by summer it'll already be decided, and it won't sting quite so bad.

Backing away from the ledge, I will say that if the team went 1-3 in May after an 18-18 start to the season, it wouldn't feel so bad. The team is some good luck away from being 3-1, but some bad luck and untimely relief pitching puts them at 1-3. A baseball season is too long to say very much before the first 25 games area played.

VMSNS
04-09-2010, 10:59 PM
Examples of KW going right to the free agent clearance rack.

It's also good to know that we had Teahen signed to a multi-year deal before he even played a single game.

BleacherBandit
04-09-2010, 10:59 PM
They got some hits this game, unlike the last two. However, it seems as if they can never collect hits, doesn't it? Too many holes in the lineup. We'll see, it's only April. However, I refuse to not see this as an indication of what's to come.

russ99
04-09-2010, 10:59 PM
I'm not looking forward to tomorrow's game. Freddy pitching and the bullpen is already overused.
:angry:

Freddy's gonna have to take one for the team.

Maybe we can figure out how to stop swinging at awful pitches, going for the fences all the time and hit the ball the other way overnight.

Tragg
04-09-2010, 10:59 PM
This is the talent Ozzie wanted. DHs who can play the field, and mediocre hitters with good attitudes.
And for some bizarro reason, Williams cedes talent decisions to Ozzie
Hopefully, they improve.

peelwonder
04-09-2010, 11:00 PM
I love the pointing of fingers at Ozzie. Yup totally OZZIE's fault. Sorry I can't stop laughing at that.

It's his team and we haven't scored any runs or have any offense to speak of. Kenny disagreed with him heavily on the DH and our offense is proving our worst premonitions.

I know it's only the 4th game of the season but I don't feel like we are a threat at the plate.

Baron
04-09-2010, 11:01 PM
Freddy's gonna have to take one for the team.

Maybe we can figure out how to stop swinging at awful pitches, going for the fences all the time and hit the ball the other way overnight.


Alexei swings at everything.....some of the stuff I wouldnt even swing at he does

Nelfox02
04-09-2010, 11:01 PM
I love baseball, and the sox I will continue to watch this year but it is clear this team is in no way a pennant contender and very likely will not win this division

yes----its early but this team is simply not built to be a consistent winner we just dont have the pieces

why, year after year, does this fan base have to settle for this?

october23sp
04-09-2010, 11:01 PM
Freddy will have to throw at least 100 pitches tommorow. Regardless of how he is doing.

russ99
04-09-2010, 11:01 PM
This is the talent Ozzie wanted. DHs who can play the field, and mediocre hitters with good attitudes.
And for some bizarro reason, Williams cedes talent decisions to Ozzie
Hopefully, they improve.

What were the alternatives? We're at $105M, which is more than the chairman wanted to pay. Good hitters don't fall from the sky.

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:02 PM
It's also good to know that we had Teahen signed to a multi-year deal before he even played a single game.

Which means he will be here another three seasons, at least!!:angry:

I wonder what Joe Crede is doing right about now. Bad back and all, he gives a better effort than this oxygen tank.

To the rest of the team, minus Quentin and Rios, HIT THE ****ING BALL!!!!

doublem23
04-09-2010, 11:02 PM
At least I'm pretty drunk.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:02 PM
Quentin, Beckham and Rios are the only position players worth a damn. Alexei is mediocre, and AJ and Paulie are on the path to mediocrity simply due to age.

I wanted Pierre, but I'm quickly souring on him.

Jones, Kotsay and Teahen are worthless. They are bench players on a good team.

On the bright side, if this keeps up, we'll get to see Morel and Danks later this year. At least those two can play defense.

Baron
04-09-2010, 11:02 PM
It's his team and we haven't scored any runs or have any offense to speak of. Kenny disagreed with him heavily on the DH and our offense is proving our worst premonitions.

I know it's only the 4th game of the season but I don't feel like we are a threat at the plate.


Kenny didnt think Jones and Kotsay was good enough for that position and Ozzie did......exactly what we feared.Both of them suck and are what 0-11 combined?Next time Kenny just needs to go with his gut than listen to Ozzie

peelwonder
04-09-2010, 11:02 PM
What were the alternatives? We're at $105M, which is more than the chairman wanted to pay. Good hitters don't fall from the sky.


I know that KW has disagreed with Ozzie's choice of the DH and he's stated so. He was willing to pick one up but Ozzie ixnayed it.

october23sp
04-09-2010, 11:02 PM
At least I'm pretty drunk.

Seriously, post this as POTW.

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:03 PM
Freddy will have to throw at least 100 pitches tommorow. Regardless of how he is doing.

Hopefully he'll make it out of the 4th inning........

Danielgosox38
04-09-2010, 11:03 PM
P.S. Mark Teahen blows chunks.

102605
04-09-2010, 11:03 PM
How is Alexei continuing to regress? That points to the hitting coach and coaching to me.

october23sp
04-09-2010, 11:03 PM
The best thing about living in ND and the Sox losing to the Twins is the 20 text messages I get.:)

asindc
04-09-2010, 11:04 PM
The way it's looking now, it's going to be a long spring...but by summer it'll already be decided, and it won't sting quite so bad.

Backing away from the ledge, I will say that if the team went 1-3 in May after an 18-18 start to the season, it wouldn't feel so bad. The team is some good luck away from being 3-1, but some bad luck and untimely relief pitching puts them at 1-3. A baseball season is too long to say very much before the first 25 games area played.

All you say is true, but I am really pissed at Alexei. If he plays the way he is capable, then this is a win without burning through our bullpen and having to bring AJ in on his day off. Alexei owes AJ and Pena a steak dinner.

JB98
04-09-2010, 11:04 PM
The way it's looking now, it's going to be a long spring...but by summer it'll already be decided, and it won't sting quite so bad.

Backing away from the ledge, I will say that if the team went 1-3 in May after an 18-18 start to the season, it wouldn't feel so bad. The team is some good luck away from being 3-1, but some bad luck and untimely relief pitching puts them at 1-3. A baseball season is too long to say very much before the first 25 games area played.

The pitching is going to keep this team in every game. When one of our top four is on the mound, we're not going to suffer too many 10-2 losses.

It's going to be a frustrating year, because these position players will kick away games with poor defense and lack of offensive execution. Ozzie has talked for three or four years about improving fundamentals, but it never gets better. Just in general, I've lost confidence in the Sox organization, and that has nothing to do with a 1-3 start. It's more a trend that's been going on for multiple seasons.

Danielgosox38
04-09-2010, 11:04 PM
At least I'm pretty drunk.

You're better off than us right now lol.

russ99
04-09-2010, 11:04 PM
I know that KW has disagreed with Ozzie's choice of the DH and he's stated so. He was willing to pick one up but Ozzie ixnayed it.

I said good hitters. Thome, Branyan and Blalock don't exactly fit the bill.

How soon until we pry Gonzo from the Padres?

Jurr
04-09-2010, 11:04 PM
Epiphany- you begin to wonder why the Sox always lose these games. Why can't they ever get that clutch hit? Why is it that the offense doesn't click when the pitching is good and vice versa? The answer is because the overall talent is poor. Teams like Pittsburgh and KC can take games to late innings, too. They never have enough talent to put enough positive plays together to win consistently.
We keep thinking the Sox will wake up and start playing like they are capable of. Maybey they aren't capable at all. Maybe this is an indictment of Kenny and Ozzie. This lineup will not work.

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:04 PM
I know that KW has disagreed with Ozzie's choice of the DH and he's stated so. He was willing to pick one up but Ozzie ixnayed it.

Don't say that too loud. Jack Cust might be in uniform before tomorrow's game.

Jermaine Dye, where are you????

RockJock07
04-09-2010, 11:04 PM
This is the talent Ozzie wanted. DHs who can play the field, and mediocre hitters with good attitudes.
And for some bizarro reason, Williams cedes talent decisions to Ozzie
Hopefully, they improve.

You're right, When Ozzie had these teams that just mashed he always made the comments about having guys who could run, bunt, hit-and-run.

The Sox can still do those things but they need to start hitting better in clutch situations.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:04 PM
The Sox have a team with a bunch of #9 hitters.

The problem is that they can't all hit ninth.

aryzner
04-09-2010, 11:05 PM
At least I'm pretty drunk.
Take a shot for every man the Sox leave on base.

I don't have a count tonight off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure that would consistently enter dangerous levels of alcohol consumption.

Nelfox02
04-09-2010, 11:05 PM
spring...but by summer it'll already be decided, and it won't sting quite so bad.





that is what I fear the most---if that happens they dump what they can at the break mediocre attendance turns to awful attendance for the balance of the year......then what happens in the off season for 2011?

I know--worrying about 2011 after four games of 2010 is nuts, but think about it, if this season tanks (and it sure looks like there is a good chance it will) what happens to this team going forward?

this is not an organization that is willing to look at holes and spend to address them when the money is not coming in

october23sp
04-09-2010, 11:06 PM
s8zn63ADiIE

Danielgosox38
04-09-2010, 11:06 PM
We should have a drinking game throughout the season for everytime Ozzie says "This ballclub needs to play better".

kitekrazy
04-09-2010, 11:06 PM
Throw Teahen in that mix too.

When's the last time a former Royal has helped this team?

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:06 PM
Epiphany- you begin to wonder why the Sox always lose these games. Why can't they ever get that clutch hit? Why is it that the offense doesn't click when the pitching is good and vice versa? The answer is because the overall talent is poor. Teams like Pittsburgh and KC can take games to late innings, too. They never have enough talent to put enough positive plays together to win consistently.
We keep thinking the Sox will wake up and start playing like they are capable of. Maybey they aren't capable at all. Maybe this is an indictment of Kenny and Ozzie. This lineup will not work.

Don't be too hard on KC and PIT. They both have more wins than we do right now.

ChiWhiteSox1337
04-09-2010, 11:07 PM
Time and time again this team proves that no matter who is on the roster, it plays incomprehensibly stupid baseball: fielding errors, bullpen walks, baserunning errors, failure to execute.

When will the Ozzpologists ever admit that maybe, just maybe, Ozzie shares some blame?
Generally speaking, the SOX have been able to hit a ton of HRs to cover Ozzie's ineptitude as the manager. I'm not convinced that'll happen this year.

guillen4life13
04-09-2010, 11:07 PM
I'm upset because I think this team ought to be able to do so much better.

Pitching was decent and I can't fault Pena for allowing one run over 3 innings. Santos looked decent again.

The offense, with the exception of Beckham, Quentin, and Rios, has looked horrible. Even Konerko's last two games have been pretty bad. Ramirez got two hits, but one of them was a bit lucky, though that last ball he nailed and got robbed by Span.

Danks, once again, pitches a good game but gets let down by the rest of his team.

Ramirez has his head in China when he's attempting to field balls in Chicago. That play made me want to slap him upside the head from Miami. Well, maybe when he comes down here during the off season, I'll smack him.

Above it all, I have to blame Ozzie. If this doesn't turn around within a week, Kenny should start looking for another option at 3B.

VMSNS
04-09-2010, 11:07 PM
How is Alexei continuing to regress? That points to the hitting coach and coaching to me.

Nope. There's no way Walker can possibly be blamed for anything. They're major league hitters, after all. They don't need coaching!

russ99
04-09-2010, 11:07 PM
We should have a drinking game throughout the season for everytime Ozzie says "This ballclub needs to play better".

Yikes... I fear for our livers.

What's the over/under on when he throws Walker under the bus again?

A. Cavatica
04-09-2010, 11:08 PM
You're right, When Ozzie had these teams that just mashed he always made the comments about having guys who could run, bunt, hit-and-run.

Our situational hitters are so bad that I found myself longing for the solo home runs again.

october23sp
04-09-2010, 11:09 PM
Drinking sounds like a plan, work off the hangover by watching Garcia.:gulp:

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:10 PM
Ozzie has talked for three or four years about improving fundamentals, but it never gets better. Just in general, I've lost confidence in the Sox organization, and that has nothing to do with a 1-3 start. It's more a trend that's been going on for multiple seasons.

Well said. Of course, none of the position players other than Lucy and Beckham actually came up through the Sox organization, and Beckham didn't even play a full season in the minors.

Maybe that says something about the Sox major league coaches.

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:10 PM
When's the last time a former Royal has helped this team?

The 20 or so games Mike MacDougal pitched in 2006.

fcl
04-09-2010, 11:10 PM
Pods is still batting over .350. But we'd rather pay Pierre about $8,000,000 more dollars. Why exactly?

JB98
04-09-2010, 11:10 PM
The Sox have a team with a bunch of #9 hitters.

The problem is that they can't all hit ninth.

I said all offseason we don't need "table-setters." What we need is some guys who can hit in the middle of the order and knock in a damn run. Look at the RBI totals from last year. They weren't good.

I was really hoping KW would sign Hideki Matsui this offseason. As it turned out the Angels got him for $5 million this year, while KW acquired Teahen and gave him an extension.

Dibbs
04-09-2010, 11:11 PM
We'll have to disagree. I expect major league hitters to execute once in awhile.

Oh I think they will execute once in a while. I just don't think we have the offensive fire power to compete for the division. It has nothing to do with the slow start either, although they are making me look correct so far.

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:11 PM
Our situational hitters are so bad that I found myself longing for the solo home runs again.

Don't worry. With the lack of hits there will be plenty of them.

Domeshot17
04-09-2010, 11:12 PM
Offense sucked bullpen sucked defense sucked. Also had Kenny not given away Allen for pena we would have our dh and maybe 2 less losses

russ99
04-09-2010, 11:12 PM
Pods is still batting over .350. But we'd rather pay Pierre about $8,000,000 more dollars. Why exactly?

We're only paying Pierre $3,000,000 this year, and I'm OK with him so far. A few more bunt hits would be nice...

BTW: I thought Pods was bad...

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:12 PM
Generally speaking, the SOX have been able to hit a ton of HRs to cover Ozzie's ineptitude as the manager.

That's becoming apparent now.

JB98
04-09-2010, 11:12 PM
Well said. Of course, none of the position players other than Lucy and Beckham actually came up through the Sox organization, and Beckham didn't even play a full season in the minors.

Maybe that says something about the Sox major league coaches.

Quite possibly. It also might say something about the type of players that are being acquired. It's probably not any one thing, but a combination of things.

wmc
04-09-2010, 11:12 PM
Quentin, Beckham and Rios are the only position players worth a damn. Alexei is mediocre, and AJ and Paulie are on the path to mediocrity simply due to age.

I wanted Pierre, but I'm quickly souring on him.

Jones, Kotsay and Teahen are worthless. They are bench players on a good team.

On the bright side, if this keeps up, we'll get to see Morel and Danks later this year. At least those two can play defense.

Good points.

I am souring on Pierre also. I miss Pods -- at least he hits and gets on base. KC must be happy with him at this point.

I hope neither of PK, Rios, or Quentin get injured -- it'll be real ugly then.

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:13 PM
I said all offseason we don't need "table-setters." What we need is some guys who can hit in the middle of the order and knock in a damn run. Look at the RBI totals from last year. They weren't good.

I was really hoping KW would sign Hideki Matsui this offseason. As it turned out the Angels got him for $5 million this year, while KW acquired Teahen and gave him an extension.

I'll take it a step further. Johnny Damon would be pretty good looking in a White Sox unform right about now.

Getz at 2B and Bacon at 3B would be a LOT better looking now.....

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:13 PM
This team would look so much better with a bona-fide DH and a 3B who can hit and field.

Nelfox02
04-09-2010, 11:14 PM
I said all offseason we don't need "table-setters." What we need is some guys who can hit in the middle of the order and knock in a damn run. Look at the RBI totals from last year. They weren't good.

I was really hoping KW would sign Hideki Matsui this offseason. As it turned out the Angels got him for $5 million this year, while KW acquired Teahen and gave him an extension.




That Teahen move, the extension......didnt get it then.....completely lost on it now you just knew when he came up with the winning run at second he would fail, I fount myself just rooting for him to K or fly out and give Jones a chance to fail too.....but what does he do? weak GIDP

cheezheadsoxfan
04-09-2010, 11:14 PM
Drinking sounds like a plan, work off the hangover by watching Garcia.:gulp:
Appropriate. Freddy always looks likes he's working off a hangover when he pitches.

BRDSR
04-09-2010, 11:15 PM
It's going to be a frustrating year, because these position players will kick away games with poor defense and lack of offensive execution. Ozzie has talked for three or four years about improving fundamentals, but it never gets better.

This is what I have trouble wrapping my mind around. You're absolutely right that the fundamentals have been lacking for three or four years under Ozzie. But the 2005 team, managed by the same Ozzie Guillen, was excellent on fundamentals. Everything that team touched turned to gold.

In general, I agree with the line of thinking that managers get all the glory and all the blame, and none of it is deserved. But when I try and figure out the difference as far as execution between the 2005 team and the teams the White Sox have fielded since, I don't come to any earth-shattering conclusions...it just doesn't make sense.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:15 PM
I hope neither of PK, Rios, or Quentin get injured -- it'll be real ugly then.

If things get ugly, Paulie and AJ may agree to be traded to contenders.

russ99
04-09-2010, 11:16 PM
That Teahen move, the extension......didnt get it then.....completely lost on it now you just knew when he came up with the winning run at second he would fail, I fount myself just rooting for him to K or fly out and give Jones a chance to fail too.....but what does he do? weak GIDP

Teahen only got the extension because he was arb eligible. Kenny was able to sign him for less than he would have gotten in a hearing.

Still, I'd like to see him play some decent baseball. Can't tell if this is a slump, a slow start, difficulty adjusting to a new team or overall suckage.

khan
04-09-2010, 11:16 PM
I'll state this first:

I'm a SOX fan 'til I die. I will cheer for this team, as I do all SOX teams. I will cheer each and every player that defends our colors.

But this team simply looks offensively inept. Every one of my fears about this team is coming true:

1. That the pitching would be JUST ENOUGH to finish 3rd.
2. That the offense would suck, and lead to a ****ty season.


KW, just fix this.

fcl
04-09-2010, 11:16 PM
I'm far more upset with Alexei tonight than Ozzie. The game never should have gone extras. He seems to be getting a pass here. And Stone was right, he should have received 2 errors on that play. I was hoping Ozzie would pull him right there, like what happened to Jones in Atlanta.

rainbow6
04-09-2010, 11:18 PM
Please don't try to lay any blame or accountabilty on Greg Walker. I've learned the past several seasons from the Walker apologists that you can't fire Greg Walker. The Sox have been, and still are, a below average offensive team but firing Greg Walker is not, or will never be, an option.

Will firing the batting coach have any positive influence?

We'll never know because brain-dead morons insist he keep his job for reasons I will never fathom.

**** Greg Walker.

kitekrazy
04-09-2010, 11:18 PM
Good points.

I am souring on Pierre also. I miss Pods -- at least he hits and gets on base. KC must be happy with him at this point.

I hope neither of PK, Rios, or Quentin get injured -- it'll be real ugly then.

Only problem with Pods is his ability to stay healthy. It's good to see Rios hitting.

ndgt10
04-09-2010, 11:18 PM
Anybody who thought this team would win more than 80 games was delusional.

We really need to land Adrian Gonzalez some how.

VMSNS
04-09-2010, 11:18 PM
That Teahen move, the extension......didnt get it then.....completely lost on it now you just knew when he came up with the winning run at second he would fail, I fount myself just rooting for him to K or fly out and give Jones a chance to fail too.....but what does he do? weak GIDP

I agree. I like Kenny, but that was just a completely bone-headed move on his part.

Lip Man 1
04-09-2010, 11:18 PM
Ah ya can't beat fun at the old ballpark friends.

Another day another pretty solid starting pitching performance wasted...another lead blown in the 7th inning or later...another loss by the bullpen...another game where the Sox score three runs or less and another extra inning loss.

I have no problems with the Sox going back to their roots, I advocate it. Winning with pitching, speed and defense, but if you are going to play that way you absolutely have to:

1. Have an unhittable, killer bullpen.
2. Win the close games
3. Make the most of your scoring chances with clutch hitting
4. Have a great defense that doesn't give extra outs.

The Sox have none of the above.

Lip

JB98
04-09-2010, 11:19 PM
This is what I have trouble wrapping my mind around. You're absolutely right that the fundamentals have been lacking for three or four years under Ozzie. But the 2005 team, managed by the same Ozzie Guillen, was excellent on fundamentals. Everything that team touched turned to gold.

In general, I agree with the line of thinking that managers get all the glory and all the blame, and none of it is deserved. But when I try and figure out the difference as far as execution between the 2005 team and the teams the White Sox have fielded since, I don't come to any earth-shattering conclusions...it just doesn't make sense.

I'm right there with you. I don't understand it. Basically, Paulie and AJ are the only guys on the club who have been around awhile now. The rest of the roster has turned over. But the same problems that started in the second half of 2006 still exist here in the first week of the 2010 season.

SBSoxFan
04-09-2010, 11:19 PM
Offense sucked bullpen sucked defense sucked. Also had Kenny not given away Allen for pena we would have our dh and maybe 2 less losses

:scratch: The guy hit .202 last year and hasn't played yet this year. What makes you think Allen would've won the last 2 games for the Sox?

The Dude
04-09-2010, 11:19 PM
**** Ozzie ****ing Guillen and his bull**** amateur handling of the bullpen. You would think after all these years he would learn. As much as I dislike Pena, I cannot fault him after throwing nearly 60 pitches when Ozzie blew the bullpen with matchup bull****.

fcl
04-09-2010, 11:22 PM
**** Ozzie ****ing Guillen and his bull**** amateur handling of the bullpen. You would think after all these years he would learn. As much as I dislike Pena, I cannot fault him after throwing nearly 60 pitches when Ozzie blew the bullpen with matchup bull****.


I'm praying Ozzie doesn't blowout Thornton by mid-May.

But what a performance by Santos!!! That was amazing stones for a guy who was an infielder a year ago. You can't teach that.

Lip Man 1
04-09-2010, 11:23 PM
JB:

Like I said yesterday I think it's mental... where players come to the Sox, know the reputation at U.S. Cellular Field and it's bombs-away time.

I don't know if that's the only reason but I'm convinced, it's part of the problem.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:23 PM
This is what I have trouble wrapping my mind around. You're absolutely right that the fundamentals have been lacking for three or four years under Ozzie. But the 2005 team, managed by the same Ozzie Guillen, was excellent on fundamentals. Everything that team touched turned to gold.

Maybe Ozzie didn't have much to do with the 2005 team being good at fundamentals:

1. Iguchi brought good fundamental practice habits with him from Japan;
2. Pods brought good fundamental practice habits with him from Milwaukee;
3. AJ was only one full season removed from the Twins, where he had developed good fundamental practice habits; and
4. For all his general nuttiness, Everett had good fundamental practice habits.

Plus, the Sox still got some well-timed power in 2005:
1. Paulie had a career year;
2. Dye and Crede got hot at the right time;
3. Big Frank helped boost the offense for a month or so;

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:24 PM
Ah ya can't beat fun at the old ballpark friends.

Another day another pretty solid starting pitching performance wasted...another lead blown in the 7th inning or later...another loss by the bullpen...another game where the Sox score three runs or less and another extra inning loss.

I have no problems with the Sox going back to their roots, I advocate it. Winning with pitching, speed and defense, but if you are going to play that way you absolutely have to:

1. Have an unhittable, killer bullpen.
2. Win the close games
3. Make the most of your scoring chances with clutch hitting
4. Have a great defense that doesn't give extra outs.

The Sox have none of the above.

Lip

I agree on most accounts, but you can't lay too much blame on the pen. Most of them have been dealing, but when you are constantly trying to hold the tie, the levee will break eventually, like with Pena tonight.

Having to throw 60 pitches when the game should have been over was surely not his fault.

But points three and four are dead on. In fact, they should be one and two on the list.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:25 PM
I'm right there with you. I don't understand it. Basically, Paulie and AJ are the only guys on the club who have been around awhile now. The rest of the roster has turned over. But the same problems that started in the second half of 2006 still exist here in the first week of the 2010 season.

It's the organizational philosophy combined with bad teaching and coaching.

fcl
04-09-2010, 11:27 PM
Maybe Ozzie didn't have much to do with the 2005 team being good at fundamentals:

1. Iguchi brought good fundamental practice habits with him from Japan;
2. Pods brought good fundamental practice habits with him from Milwaukee;
3. AJ was only one full season removed from the Twins, where he had developed good fundamental practice habits; and
4. For all his general nuttiness, Everett had good fundamental practice habits.

Plus, the Sox still got some well-timed power in 2005:
1. Paulie had a career year;
2. Dye and Crede got hot at the right time;
3. Big Frank helped boost the offense for a month or so;

Come on. Ozzie let his starters go brilliantly in 2005. Will anyone else here acknowledge that NOBODY ELSE on the planet could have gotten from Jon Garland what Ozzie did in 2005? That was special.

Getting that 2008 team to the postseason was pretty darn good managing as well, it wasn't that good a team. If Q isn't stupid they could have......

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:28 PM
Appropriate. Freddy always looks likes he's working off a hangover when he pitches.

Or feeling the after-effects of the bud.....

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:29 PM
Come on. Ozzie let his starters go brilliantly in 2005. Will anyone else here acknowledge that NOBODY ELSE on the planet could have gotten from Jon Garland what Ozzie did in 2005? That was special.

What does managing a pitching staff have to do with hitting and fielding fundamentals?

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:30 PM
Will anyone else here acknowledge that NOBODY ELSE on the planet could have gotten from Jon Garland what Ozzie did in 2005? That was special.

If you're going to give Ozzie credit for Jon Garland's 2005, don't you also owe an equal measure of credit to Don Cooper?

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:31 PM
Come on. Ozzie let his starters go brilliantly in 2005. Will anyone else here acknowledge that NOBODY ELSE on the planet could have gotten from Jon Garland what Ozzie did in 2005? That was special.

Getting that 2008 team to the postseason was pretty darn good managing as well, it wasn't that good a team. If Q isn't stupid they could have......

Garland was a fifth starter in the beginnig of the year. When he was moved up later on, he became a .500 pitcher again.

TCQ or not, TB had us on everything in 2008: pitching, timely hitting, speed, defense, and most of all...... a rested team.

Lip Man 1
04-09-2010, 11:31 PM
Soxinem 1:

Not saying your wrong about the bullpen but in fact it was Linebrink and Williams who allowed the tying run in the 7th inning. That was where I was coming from.

Lip

fcl
04-09-2010, 11:32 PM
What does managing a pitching staff have to do with hitting and fielding fundamentals?


I'm just saying baseball is mostly pitching and Ozzie is pretty good there and therefore overall an above average manager.

Why Greg Walker has a guaranteed job for life with Ozzie is beyond me. What has he done to deserve a lifetime guaranteed contract? NOBODY can answer that. Did Jim Hendry do Walkers deal while Kenny was on vacation?

Blueprint1
04-09-2010, 11:33 PM
Soxinem 1:

Not saying your wrong about the bullpen but in fact it was Linebrink and Williams who allowed the tying run in the 7th inning. That was where I was coming from.

Lip

Why was Linebrink put in the game there? I didn't get that.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:33 PM
Could Morel and Danks actually do worse than Pierre and Teahen are doing right now?

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:34 PM
Soxinem 1:

Not saying your wrong about the bullpen but in fact it was Linebrink and Williams who allowed the tying run in the 7th inning. That was where I was coming from.

Lip

Agreed totally.

But maybe the manager had no business bringing them in for that inning. Ozzie had no business bringing them in. Williams is a career AAA player and Linebrink has been useless since the 2008 ASB.

I wondered why Pena or Putz were not in for the 7th?

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:35 PM
Could Morel and Danks actually do worse than Pierre and Teahen are doing right now?

Could Hudson or Torres do worse than Linebrink?

BainesHOF
04-09-2010, 11:35 PM
Ramirez is a joke offensively and defensively right now. Those two errors and his lackluster attitude on chasing his booted ball down are unacceptable, especially given his stupid approach at the plate. There's no way he should be starting now. Put Vizquel at short for awhile and see what happens. I'm tired of watching Ramirez and his stupidity. Right now, he's a loser.

There's no doubt our offense has been atrocious. This is exactly the time when a manager can make the difference between winning and losing. Linebrink shouldn't even be in the Majors, but we all know why he's on the roster. But that doesn't mean he has to pitch in any meaningful situation. Yet Ozzie brings him in tonight with the game on the line. Can someone tell me why? Everyone knew what was going to happen next, so why was he brought in?

Pena had no business for pitching as long as he did tonight. He did a good job, but he was obviously out of gas in the final inning. Yet Ozzie left him in. We're lucky we didn't pay for that. That's all it was, luck.

Ozzie doesn't even argue calls that should be argued. Beckham was safe at second, but Ozzie returned to the dugout like a meek puppy. That Minnesota hit down the right-field line looked foul in real time and on the replay. Ozzie didn't even bother to come out of the dugout. At least Cooper gave it to the home umpire in the 11th inning.

We have the pitching to have a terrific season, but the rest of the team has to shape up in a hurry if that's going to happen.

fcl
04-09-2010, 11:36 PM
If you're going to give Ozzie credit for Jon Garland's 2005, don't you also owe an equal measure of credit to Don Cooper?

No. It was Ozzie's call to let Garland battle through tough innings. Ozzie let Garland battle through innings in early 2005 that Jerry Manuel would have pulled Garland 100% of the time. Garland got out of most of those innings and the rest was history. Ozzie used guys like Cotts, Politte and Hermansen brilliantly. Those dudes weren't THAT talented.

JB98
04-09-2010, 11:38 PM
Could Hudson or Torres do worse than Linebrink?

Torres could most certainly do worse. Hudson, OTOH, is certainly better.

As you know, Linebrink is still here because of the contract he was given.

october23sp
04-09-2010, 11:40 PM
Appropriate. Freddy always looks likes he's working off a hangover when he pitches.

This loss has spawned a lot of great posts.

soxinem1
04-09-2010, 11:41 PM
As you know, Linebrink is still here because of the contract he was given.

We will saying the same thing about Teahen in 2012 after his second straight .245 8 HR 45 RBI, 145 K season.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:41 PM
Ozzie used guys like Cotts, Politte and Hermansen brilliantly. Those dudes weren't THAT talented.

You're right. Those three were not that talented. They all had career years. In 2006, Hermanson was done due to injury, but Cotts and Politte were just awful. So is Ozzie to blame for that, then? You can't have it both ways.

Ozzie handled his pitching staff well in 2005, but many of his pitchers also all had career years, too, and those players deserve equal if not more credit for having career years.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2010, 11:43 PM
As you know, Linebrink is still here because of the contract he was given.

Do you think there's anyone who would take him off our hands without the Sox having to eat his salary?

It would be nice to showcase him for a trade, but it's not much of a showcase if he keeps up a ratio of two walks per out he records.

PhillipsBubba
04-09-2010, 11:46 PM
The unbridled excitement for the new season was quickly squashed by our heroes.:(:

It happens every spring....

JB98
04-09-2010, 11:49 PM
Do you think there's anyone who would take him off our hands without the Sox having to eat his salary?

It would be nice to showcase him for a trade, but it's not much of a showcase if he keeps up a ratio of two walks per out he records.

No, not the way he's pitched.

DickAllen72
04-09-2010, 11:51 PM
Well Ozzie, you got your team. Hope you are happy.
I wonder if Ozzie still believes that Alexei Ramirez is going to be the best defensive shortstop in the American League this year.

guillen4life13
04-09-2010, 11:53 PM
Ramirez is a joke offensively and defensively right now. Those two errors and his lackluster attitude on chasing his booted ball down are unacceptable, especially given his stupid approach at the plate. There's no way he should be starting now. Put Vizquel at short for awhile and see what happens. I'm tired of watching Ramirez and his stupidity. Right now, he's a loser.

There's no doubt our offense has been atrocious. This is exactly the time when a manager can make the difference between winning and losing. Linebrink shouldn't even be in the Majors, but we all know why he's on the roster. But that doesn't mean he has to pitch in any meaningful situation. Yet Ozzie brings him in tonight with the game on the line. Can someone tell me why? Everyone knew what was going to happen next, so why was he brought in?

Pena had no business for pitching as long as he did tonight. He did a good job, but he was obviously out of gas in the final inning. Yet Ozzie left him in. We're lucky we didn't pay for that. That's all it was, luck.

This team looks unprepared to play winning baseball. When Ramirez booted the ball and dogged it in retrieving it , the Minnesota runner continued to third in a blink of an eye. It's called hustle. That's Twins baseball. Gardenhire wouldn't tolerate anything less. Which brings us to Beckham tonight. He dogged it on his fly ball that dropped in for a hit. He should have been standing on second base when the throw came in. Unacceptable. Who does Beckham think he is to be doing that already? But he'll be in the lineup tomorrow. There's no accountability under Ozzie.

Ozzie doesn't even argue calls that should be argued. Beckham was safe at second, but Ozzie returned to the dugout like a meek puppy. That Minnesota hit down the right-field line looked foul in real time and on the replay. Ozzie didn't even bother to come out of the dugout. At least Cooper gave it to the home umpire in the 11th inning.

We have the pitching to have a terrific season, but the rest of the team has to shape up in a hurry if that's going to happen.

The bold section is total BS. What's Beckham supposed to do? Run full on into 2B when there's a good chance the ball gets caught? Then you're ripping him for not playing heads up and getting doubled off at first. That was a catch 22 for him and if you can't figure that out, you're letting your emotions get much better of you.

PhillipsBubba
04-09-2010, 11:56 PM
What we need is Ranger to come on and tell us why we should be happy:scratch:

GoGoCrede
04-10-2010, 12:02 AM
Just got home. Jesus,the play I saw on the field was putrid. Not much fun to watch. I think the bleachers had more interesting action going on. People getting tossed, fights galore. A couple of loudmouths sat behind me and my friend and were getting overly friendly with us, which got annoying.

At least it wasn't quite as cold as Wednesday; I'd have been doubly pissed if I sat through that weather to see them lose.

Oh, well. At least everyone got a White Sox calendar. I am happy to report that Gavin is January 2011.

I was also thrilled at the warm welcome we gave Jimmy. Mostly everyone was on their feet, as it should be. And I was even happier when he struck out.

I'm really liking Santos, and Lucy wasn't bad either. Alexei had a terrible game.

hi im skot
04-10-2010, 12:05 AM
That was a waste of a night.

BainesHOF
04-10-2010, 12:06 AM
The bold section is total BS. What's Beckham supposed to do? Run full on into 2B when there's a good chance the ball gets caught? Then you're ripping him for not playing heads up and getting doubled off at first. That was a catch 22 for him and if you can't figure that out, you're letting your emotions get much better of you.

You're right. I thought he had hit the ball. My bad. Thanks for calling me out and correcting me.

WhiteSox5187
04-10-2010, 12:09 AM
What a miserable night at the ballpark. Most everyone has touched on the stuff I wanted to say, but just to reiterate, what the hell is going on on with Alexei mentally? He actually had a good approach at the plate tonight and hit a few balls hard, but in the field he reminds me of watching an eight year old play, their mind is just a thousand miles away. Some of his plays tonight were just inexcusable.

Secondly was the umpires. They completely blew the call on Beckham and on the drive that tied the game in the seventh, from where I was sitting, it looked like it was at least two feet foul. Also Pena threw Morneau five strikes. But...it's hard to blame losses on the umpires.

I'm also sick of Pierre.

tsoxman
04-10-2010, 12:11 AM
What a miserable night at the ballpark. Most everyone has touched on the stuff I wanted to say, but just to reiterate, what the hell is going on on with Alexei mentally? He actually had a good approach at the plate tonight and hit a few balls hard, but in the field he reminds me of watching an eight year old play, their mind is just a thousand miles away. Some of his plays tonight were just inexcusable.

Secondly was the umpires. They completely blew the call on Beckham and on the drive that tied the game in the seventh, from where I was sitting, it looked like it was at least two feet foul. Also Pena threw Morneau five strikes. But...it's hard to blame losses on the umpires.

I'm also sick of Pierre.

Isn't it this particular crew with Phil Cusi that we alsways have issues with?

It's Dankerific
04-10-2010, 12:13 AM
at least games in April don't count as much as games in September.

Waysouthsider
04-10-2010, 12:14 AM
I wonder if Ozzie still believes that Alexei Ramirez is going to be the best defensive shortstop in the American League this year.


I was thinking that same thing while my ass was freezing off tonight while watching Ramirez act like his head was not in the game at all....what a ****ty night.....made doubly awful as it was basically a replay of last night's fiasco.


We have been waiting and waiting to get up here to see the start of this season and now I'm actually dreading the rest of my weekend....! The horror.......the horror.....!:whiner:

hi im skot
04-10-2010, 12:15 AM
at least games in April don't count as much as games in September.

This wasn't funny the first time you posted it.

:dtroll:

GoGoCrede
04-10-2010, 12:16 AM
at least games in April don't count as much as games in September.

Yes, I think we know that already.

It's Dankerific
04-10-2010, 12:27 AM
If thats not true, why put Linebrink in when we have a one run lead? ESPECIALLY when other, actual relievers will be able to be used later.

I gave him a bit of a pass when i thought he had to rest the other guys, but then he brought them in anyways. what a ****ing idiot.

GoGoCrede
04-10-2010, 12:28 AM
If thats not true, why put Linebrink in when we have a one run lead? ESPECIALLY when other, actual relievers will be able to be used later.

I gave him a bit of a pass when i thought he had to rest the other guys, but then he brought them in anyways. what a ****ing idiot.

I'm not saying it's not true, it just sounds like you're rubbing it in.

It's Dankerific
04-10-2010, 12:32 AM
I'm not saying it's not true, it just sounds like you're rubbing it in.

Ozzie is the salt.

fram40
04-10-2010, 12:32 AM
Maybe Ozzie didn't have much to do with the 2005 team being good at fundamentals:

1. Iguchi brought good fundamental practice habits with him from Japan;
2. Pods brought good fundamental practice habits with him from Milwaukee;
3. AJ was only one full season removed from the Twins, where he had developed good fundamental practice habits; and
4. For all his general nuttiness, Everett had good fundamental practice habits.

Plus, the Sox still got some well-timed power in 2005:
1. Paulie had a career year;
2. Dye and Crede got hot at the right time;
3. Big Frank helped boost the offense for a month or so;

Part of the reason the Sox looked so good fundamentally in 2005 was Uribe. He had an absolutely spectacular defensive year. When your SS plays that well, the team looks good.

Why can't the Sox execute a simple rundown? They can't do it tonight and they sucked last year and they really sucked in 2008 with Cabrera at SS. They repeatedly throw away outs on defense.

Alexei made a nice play - and then made two really bad ones.

russ99
04-10-2010, 12:33 AM
If thats not true, why put Linebrink in when we have a one run lead? ESPECIALLY when other, actual relievers will be able to be used later.

I gave him a bit of a pass when i thought he had to rest the other guys, but then he brought them in anyways. what a ****ing idiot.

Tell me, when are they supposed to use him? The guy is on the roster and we're burning through our pen. Are we just going to bench him??

Ozzie gave him a shot, what are you going to do.

Actually, Linebrink isn't too far off. His fastball has life and motion, not the slow, flat one that we saw last year going over the fences. He is overthrowing the breaking stuff and not getting it to break over the plate. At least it's a halfway decent starting point with the nice K, hopefully he can build on it.

Besides, Linebrink's not the reason we lost the game, crappy execution at the plate and lackadaisical defense was.

GoGoCrede
04-10-2010, 12:36 AM
Ozzie is the salt.

I really don't understand what this metaphor is getting at.



Besides, Linebrink's not the reason we lost the game, crappy execution at the plate and lackadaisical defense was.

This. Danks was battling, just as our starters have all week. The offense is apparently still enjoying the offseason.

fram40
04-10-2010, 12:39 AM
Besides, Linebrink's not the reason we lost the game, crappy execution at the plate and lackadaisical defense was.

I blame the bullpen for all three losses - in all three games the Sox bullpen was outpitched by the opponents bullpen. Both Minn and Cleveland have ****ty bullpens - yet they outpitched the Sox' bullpen.

It could be a long year - especially if Ozzie continues to use Thornton every game.

It's Dankerific
04-10-2010, 12:40 AM
Tell me, when are they supposed to use him? The guy is on the roster and we're burning through our pen. Are we just going to bench him??

How about simply not using him when it counts, when we have a chance against a division rival and/or when we're on a 2 game losing streak.


Ozzie gave him a shot, what are you going to do.


ONLY USE HIM IN A BLOWOUT, at least till he proves he wont crap his pants.


Actually, Linebrink isn't too far off. His fastball has life and motion, not the slow, flat one that we saw last year going over the fences. He is overthrowing the breaking stuff and not getting it to break over the plate. At least it's a halfway decent starting point with the nice K, hopefully he can build on it.

Besides, Linebrink's not the reason we lost the game, crappy execution at the plate and lackadaisical defense was.

Ramirez getting to do whatever the **** he wants without any sort of penalty is on Mr. Ozzie Guillen, too.

DickAllen72
04-10-2010, 12:46 AM
Part of the reason the Sox looked so good fundamentally in 2005 was Uribe. He had an absolutely spectacular defensive year. When your SS plays that well, the team looks good.

Thank you. Uribe was certainly the best SS the Sox have had in decades and was a key to the 2005 championship.

Craig Grebeck
04-10-2010, 12:51 AM
Tell me, when are they supposed to use him? The guy is on the roster and we're burning through our pen. Are we just going to bench him??

Ozzie gave him a shot, what are you going to do.

Actually, Linebrink isn't too far off. His fastball has life and motion, not the slow, flat one that we saw last year going over the fences. He is overthrowing the breaking stuff and not getting it to break over the plate. At least it's a halfway decent starting point with the nice K, hopefully he can build on it.

Besides, Linebrink's not the reason we lost the game, crappy execution at the plate and lackadaisical defense was.
Only low-leverage situations.

Craig Grebeck
04-10-2010, 12:57 AM
Also, this isn't rocket science; you fill a team with bad hitters and bad fielders and a tremendous pitching staff and you won't be very good.

Boondock Saint
04-10-2010, 01:00 AM
This wasn't funny the first time you posted it.

:dtroll:

Don't forget the second time, either.

I guess, on the positive side of things, at least Ozzie didn't waste Jenks in yet another non-save situation.

JohnTucker0814
04-10-2010, 01:04 AM
I'm really really really frustrated right now with this team. However, I'm not jumping off the cliff yet. Here is why, the pitching has been pretty good. Rios has hit the ball pretty decent and tonight seemed to be the only one hitting it hard. Paulie looks like he's got a great plan at the plate. Alexei looks lost, but he has always looked lost at the start of the season. Teahen is probably pressing a little too much, trying to impress his new team.

I don't like Beckham hitting in the 2 hole. He's our best hitter and I don't like having him give up an AB to get a guy in scoring position, I want him being the one hitting them in. However, we don't have another option at #2 because I don't want to see Rios there either. Maybe when Vizquel plays for Teahen we can put him there and move everyone else down 1 spot.

I don't know, it's just too early to panic yet, hell we looked like world beaters in ATL and that was only a week ago!

I wonder if they are going to have to bring up a player from the minors to help out the bullpen, they are taxed out there!

mcfish
04-10-2010, 01:04 AM
Secondly was the umpires. They completely blew the call on Beckham and on the drive that tied the game in the seventh, from where I was sitting, it looked like it was at least two feet foul. Sadly, it was fair. On replay you can see it hit right side of the line, maybe 2 inches from being foul.

TheOldRoman
04-10-2010, 01:06 AM
I wanted Pierre, but I'm quickly souring on him.

Jones, Kotsay and Teahen are worthless. They are bench players on a good team.
Well, that is rational. At least you gave it four games.

All you say is true, but I am really pissed at Alexei. If he plays the way he is capable, then this is a win without burning through our bullpen and having to bring AJ in on his day off. Alexei owes AJ and Pena a steak dinner.I didn't see the game, what did he do?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-10-2010, 01:06 AM
I blame the bullpen for all three losses - in all three games the Sox bullpen was outpitched by the opponents bullpen. Both Minn and Cleveland have ****ty bullpens - yet they outpitched the Sox' bullpen.

It could be a long year - especially if Ozzie continues to use Thornton every game.

It's really hard to blame the bullpen for this one. Linebrink was the only reliever who looked out of place today...everyone else did good, I thought. I hate Pena, but he didn't deserve the loss today. I was in the LF seats, and even I could see that the pitch in the 11th should have been strike three, see ya. That pitch was right at the letters. But the ump called it ball, and sure enough, the game-winning hit soon followed.

What really cost the Sox today was Alexei's errors and the anti-clutch offense.

VMSNS
04-10-2010, 01:09 AM
Pena looked great for his first two innings. After that, it's clear he was burned out, which isn't his fault, but rather Ozzie's for leaving a reliever in for three innings. And that was strike three, clear as day. Sorry, but I don't buy the "It's the bullpen's fault" line for this game.

Lack of situational hitting, same as it's always been.

Nellie_Fox
04-10-2010, 01:21 AM
And that was strike three, clear as day. For whatever value you wish to assign it, the FoxTrax showed it as outside.

TDog
04-10-2010, 01:22 AM
If thats not true, why put Linebrink in when we have a one run lead? ESPECIALLY when other, actual relievers will be able to be used later.

I gave him a bit of a pass when i thought he had to rest the other guys, but then he brought them in anyways. what a ****ing idiot.

Maybe he brought in Linebrink because he needed Linebrink to give the other guys a rest, but Linebrink wasn't up to the task. I doubt Guillen brought in Linebrink with the intent of using him less than an inning.

If your starters don't pitch even seven and you play at least four games a week, Linebrink is going to have to pitch. If in a couple of those games you have to go extras, that doesn't help. Maybe it would be Dankerific if Danks or Peavy or Floyd or Buehrle pitched a complete game once in awhile.

What hurts this week isn't that the Sox looked like crap, as many here have assessed, but that they should be 4-0. Every game was winnable without the offense getting another hit. If you're playing Ozzie ball, you score that runner from third with less than two outs (that's the way the game should be played -- only Kotsay seems able to do it consistently, and much of WSI hates him for it). Bringing in that runner from third wasn't done in regulation in each of the two extra-inning losses. And the Sox got off to a 3-0 lead in a Jake Peavy start.

They say that in the major leagues, you win a third of your games and lose a third of your games, and it's the third that could go either way that determines your season. The thing that annoys me is that these last three games were games that could have gone either way, and they went the wrong way.

The Twins tonight should be looking back at the first, at the blown opportunity for a big inning in a tough one-run loss.

mcfish
04-10-2010, 01:51 AM
Maybe he brought in Linebrink because he needed Linebrink to give the other guys a rest, but Linebrink wasn't up to the task. I doubt Guillen brought in Linebrink with the intent of using him less than an inning.

If your starters don't pitch even seven and you play at least four games a week, Linebrink is going to have to pitch. If in a couple of those games you have to go extras, that doesn't help. Maybe it would be Dankerific if Danks or Peavy or Floyd or Buehrle pitched a complete game once in awhile.
That's a good argument in July, but it's only four games in. The bullpen should be fully capable of pitching the number of innings they have been required to pitch so far.

If it continues and the starters average <= 18 outs a game, that'll be a problem, but not the first week.

munchman33
04-10-2010, 02:14 AM
Also, this isn't rocket science; you fill a team with bad hitters and bad fielders and a tremendous pitching staff and you won't be very good.

Well said. Not many people here will agree with you or me or the handful of other posters that have been screaming this all offseason, but that doesn't make it not reality. We're pretty far from being good; four great starting pitchers isn't even half the equation.

It's Dankerific
04-10-2010, 02:15 AM
Starters arms aren't stretched out yet. I doubt this was the case in April, 1960 either.

If the other relievers were available, there was no point to using linebrink. he could have had plenty of work tomorrow, when the game is probably going to be out of reach.

DirtySox
04-10-2010, 02:24 AM
Another ****ing putrid game.

Offense is performing exactly how I feared they would. I've never turned down free Sox tickets, but I did for tomorrow's game. Gross.

Sam Spade
04-10-2010, 02:58 AM
Another ****ing putrid game.

Offense is performing exactly how I feared they would. I've never turned down free Sox tickets, but I did for tomorrow's game. Gross.
Uh, yeah, they are terrible. In the future, can I have your tickets?

TDog
04-10-2010, 03:00 AM
Starters arms aren't stretched out yet. I doubt this was the case in April, 1960 either.

If the other relievers were available, there was no point to using linebrink. he could have had plenty of work tomorrow, when the game is probably going to be out of reach.

On opening day on April 19, 1960, Frank Lary of the Detroit Tigers pitched the first 10 innings of a 15-inning Tiger win against the Indians. The Tigers scored two in the top of the 11th, but Lary gave up two hits before coming out in the bottom of the 11th, and both came around to score to tie the game with Jim Bunning on the mound. Cleveland starter Gary Bell gave up the two in the top of the 11th after getting only one out in the inning. But there were official complete games that day. Sam Jones of the Giants threw one against the Cardinals, but he only pitched nine innings. Don Drysdale pitched 11 innings in a complete game win against the Cubs.


But that was a long time ago, and some of those people are dead. Still, in the 2005 opener Mark Buehrle pitched eight shutout innings. Guillen felt necessary to put in his closer, Shingo, to nail down the 1-0 win. Jake Westbrook pitched eight, which amounted to a complete game because his team was only in the field for eight.

It is too bad he couldn't go eight this year. It's too bad Peavy couldn't go more than five etc. The ratio between starter innings and reliever innings on the White Sox so far this season is not good news for the pitching staff.

Using Linebrink wasn't stupid. It was inevitable. Effective relievers don't remain effective relievers if they are used in every game, and it was time for Linebrink to share part of the workload.

It's Dankerific
04-10-2010, 03:12 AM
On opening day on April 19, 1960, Frank Lary of the Detroit Tigers pitched the first 10 innings of a 15-inning Tiger win against the Indians. The Tigers scored two in the top of the 11th, but Lary gave up two hits before coming out in the bottom of the 11th, and both came around to score to tie the game with Jim Bunning on the mound. Cleveland starter Gary Bell gave up the two in the top of the 11th after getting only one out in the inning. But there were official complete games that day. Sam Jones of the Giants threw one against the Cardinals, but he only pitched nine innings. Don Drysdale pitched 11 innings in a complete game win against the Cubs.


didnt halladay pitch a CG OD last year? Sure, it happens once in a while in April, but my point was that April is April. They need time to stretch their arms out.


Using Linebrink wasn't stupid. It was inevitable. Effective relievers don't remain effective relievers if they are used in every game, and it was time for Linebrink to share part of the workload.

You act as though there is no choice. Ozzie can choose WHAT games to use Linebrink in, and a one run game isnt one of them. He ended up using those same "effective" relievers the next inning, so I'm calling horse **** on the idea that he couldnt use them to help win the game.

cards press box
04-10-2010, 06:15 AM
Just got home. Jesus,the play I saw on the field was putrid. Not much fun to watch.

I'm really liking Santos, and Lucy wasn't bad either. Alexei had a terrible game.

I was also there and, yes, Ramirez had an awful game. He doesn't play well in April and never has. The Sox might want to consider sitting him for some of these April night games where the temperature ends up around 40 degrees.

I also agree that Santos looked terrific. If the Sox contend this year, I expect that Santos will play a key role. Despite the Sox' eventual loss tonight, Delmon Young's at bat against Santos in the 7th inning was an important because it showed the upside that Santos has.

Could Hudson or Torres do worse than Linebrink?

Linebrink is supossedly healthy but his command looks totally shot. If he can't do better than this, he probably will go the same route as Mike MacDougal a couple of seasons ago: to Charlotte and then out of the organization.

Hudson, I imagine, will keep starting but Torres seems like a pretty good candidate to become a long man in the Sox pen. Given how overtaxed the bullpen is right now, I can see Torres joining the Sox pen sooner rather than later.

It's only the 4th game and I already hate this team.

They have only played 4 games, with 158 to go. It's a little early to write off the season, isn't it?

They played four games and have lost two in extra innings. A couple of breaks one way or the other and the Sox are 4-1 or 3-2 and half of this board isn't jumping ship. Anyway, the Sox team batting average right now is .185, dead last in the AL. Trust me, that will get a lot better. On the bright side, the team ERA is 2.85, 4th in the AL.

Do the Sox need to tinker with this roster? I think so. I also recognize, however, that 4 games is too small a sample size for any team to know exactly what they need.

From my point of view, another bat or two would be helpful, especially a lefty with power. The Sox will eventually need to replace Linebrink if they can't trust him to do anything but mop up. That, I think, will happen before too long.

I will say this: I think there is a 0% chance that the Sox will hit this badly all season. I agree with Frank Thomas who has said that this offense needs a few weeks to gel and will likely do so.

WhiteSox1989
04-10-2010, 06:43 AM
Not a fun game to be at. I'm pretty disappointed, and I know it's irrational but I'm blaming Linebrink.

Win today, please.

harwar
04-10-2010, 07:13 AM
feel bad for Johnny Danks .. Santos was awesome as expected .. been impressed by this kid since day one .. not sure about the rotating players thing .. most players like to feel comfortable by knowing where they will play (field and lineup) everyday, but oh well .. things are a bit of a mess at this time but Ozzie needs to be strong right now and not lose control .. we can come out of this and still put together a great season .. it can happen ..

palehozenychicty
04-10-2010, 07:21 AM
feel bad for Johnny Danks .. Santos was awesome as expected .. been impressed by this kid since day one .. not sure about the rotating players thing .. most players like to feel comfortable by knowing where they will play (field and lineup) everyday, but oh well .. things are a bit of a mess at this time but Ozzie needs to be strong right now and not lose control .. we can come out of this and still put together a great season .. it can happen ..

Thank you. The season is far from over. The Giants are 4-0 right now. They will not be 162-0. It is clear, however, that the Sox need another stick, arm, and possibly a shortstop. Alexei just may not be that good. Even last year, he put up decent numbers, but played an inconsistent shortstop. He has a lot to prove this season.

Johnny Mostil
04-10-2010, 07:24 AM
I really don't understand what this metaphor is getting at.




I think ID meant Ozzie is the salt being rubbed in the wound.

For better or worse, tough for me to get upset about Ozzie: he's not going anywhere.

soxinem1
04-10-2010, 07:54 AM
I cannot see how the bullpen or starters can be blamed for anything so far.

Sure, Thornton, Linebrink, and Williams blew small leads, but it was early enough in the game to recover. Honestly, when your hitters have scored one run past the sixth inning in four games, you are not going to win. Relievers cannot suceed every night with such a narrow margin of error.

Another thing we need to do is put 2005 to rest. It was a special season that saw everything come together, including several journeymen relievers and a rookie with a screw in his elbow setting the world on fire. That is not going to be repeated very often.

There was a great bit of luck involved too, and quite frankly, KW and Ozzie did not feel that team was built to win again because the 2006 White Sox were retooled pretty deeply for a World Series Champion. We all know how that ended up.

Blaming the weather, defense, and starters is not a reason for this team to be 1-3. Sure, there have been a few boneheaded plays, but none of them cost the team a game.........

It has been the bats.

When Pierre hits into his first DP in three years, and the hitters cannot even scratch a chink hit when they have the opportunity to drive in a run, you are going to lose.

We have lost three straight games on two-out hits, and sometimes you have to take your hat off to the opposition for executing, just as they would if we did the same thing.c

Even the Opening Day win was not without offensive fault. Six hits for the game primarilyof off a guy who has not pitched in 1 1/2 seasons, several jorneymen relievers, and most of the runs coming on homers further emphasizes the fact that this team, as of now, is having difficulty putting three hits together.

So until that begins to happen with regularity, speed or no speed, smallball or smartball, solid defense or porous, this team will not win.

However, I'm not exactly in favor of panic moves, as BOS is 1-3 also. While they have a stronger lineup on paper than us, it is not like this team is filled with career .240 hitters.

Yogi Berra is right, 90% of this game is half mental. Once you fall into a rut you need to fight your way out.

The only question is, can they with this group? I was not sold on this lineup and some of Guillen's curious moves so far (Jones in CF, Rios in LF to name one), but more than four games is needed to evaluate this team.

skobabe8
04-10-2010, 08:44 AM
I am not happy with the way this team looks right now, BUT....

the Boston Red Sox are 1-3
the LA Angels are 1-4
the Seattle Mariners are 1-4

Don't panick people.

KyWhiSoxFan
04-10-2010, 08:54 AM
I cannot see how the bullpen or starters can be blamed for anything so far.

Sure, Thornton, Linebrink, and Williams blew small leads, but it was early enough in the game to recover.

The Sox had a lead in each of the last 3 games and lost all three. The starter gave up a 3-run lead in the first and relievers blew one-run leads in the last two. If you have a strong pen, you win these games regardless of what the hitters are or aren't doing. If the Sox have any hope to have a good season, the bullpen has to be strong and hold leads.

hawkjt
04-10-2010, 10:12 AM
Thome is in today vs Freddy....oh oh.
We could not see whether Morneau's double down the line was fair,but it looked foul....was there a definitive replay?

Brutally long game to sit thru without a happy ending.
But, it is so early, not going to jump off this team.
The minute I walked into the park,I knew it would be tough for scoring...there was not chance of any homers.

I have whined about the schedule already, but one of these years I hope the Sox could start on the west coast the first week,just fly up from Arizona,and stay warm..and then come home the second week for opening day. Bats are frozen right now.

BadBobbyJenks
04-10-2010, 10:21 AM
I would just like to say Sergio Santos is ****ing filthy.

And Tony Pena is a beast, you wsiers will come around eventually.

And our offense is not the best in the league.

VMSNS
04-10-2010, 11:25 AM
For whatever value you wish to assign it, the FoxTrax showed it as outside.

I didn't see the Fox Trax. However, the ump awarded Kotsay a free pitch in the next inning (breaking pitch right down the middle from Rauch), which shows me that even the ump knew it was a blown call. I hate complaining when it comes to officiating, but I thought that call greatly changed the outcome of the game.


They have only played 4 games, with 158 to go. It's a little early to write off the season, isn't it?


Yes, true. I suppose I don't really "hate" the team, I was just extremely mad last night when I posted that. My apologies for overreacting.

SephClone89
04-10-2010, 11:27 AM
Uh, yeah, they are terrible. In the future, can I have your tickets?

This. Unless I had something incredibly important to do, I don't think I'd ever turn down free Sox tickets.

mccoydp
04-10-2010, 11:28 AM
What a total **** game. Of course, my stupid ass will be sitting in front of the computer, watching tonight's game and the ones that follow. I enjoy the torture.

Lip Man 1
04-10-2010, 11:32 AM
For what it's worth one of the beat writers who is a big fan of the organization and the way the Sox approach things responded to an e-mail of mine after the loss on Friday.

"I saw it and you're dead on. Funny thing is that Kenny has been very invisible. How much blame does he take and when does Jerry Reinsdorf step in to say, ''you've had a good run, but you've also blown up this payroll without getting max results?''

Thursday's loss validates my feelings about Thornton as the closer (Not). And his arm will be on the shoulder of the Dan Ryan before long.

As Felipe Alou used to say in Montreal on Aug. 1, ''This has a September chill to it.''

Lip

Joliet_Sox
04-10-2010, 11:33 AM
At home facing a Mauerless lineup while going against MLB's worst starting pitcher from last year and still find a way to lose. :angry:

I'm soooo sick of the Twins!

wassagstdu
04-10-2010, 11:43 AM
Had to laugh at Hawk praising AJ's execution pulling a far outside and low pitch to the right side to advance the runner to third. If there is one thing the Sox can execute it is pulling an outside pitch for a weak grounder. They practice that constantly.

Paulwny
04-10-2010, 11:48 AM
That was a waste of a night.


Sad to say, I believe there will be many more wasted days and wasted nights.

fram40
04-10-2010, 12:49 PM
Had to laugh at Hawk praising AJ's execution pulling a far outside and low pitch to the right side to advance the runner to third. If there is one thing the Sox can execute it is pulling an outside pitch for a weak grounder. They practice that constantly.

Isn't this the very definition of WalkerBall?