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DirtySox
04-08-2010, 01:38 PM
InsideTheSox (http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox)
#WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox) vs. Cle: Pierredh, Beckham4, Qunetin9, PK3, Jones8, AJ2, Rios7, Teahen5, Ram6. Floyd pitching.


Not a big fan of Jones in CF.

Craig Grebeck
04-08-2010, 01:39 PM
InsideTheSox (http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox)
#WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox) vs. Cle: Pierredh, Beckham4, Qunetin9, PK3, Jones8, AJ2, Rios7, Teahen5, Ram6. Floyd pitching.
Why the **** is Jones in CF?

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 01:40 PM
Rios should play CF everyday he is in the lineup. Stuuupid.

GoGoCrede
04-08-2010, 01:41 PM
I predict that Floyd will be awesome.

eriqjaffe
04-08-2010, 01:42 PM
Why the **** is Jones in CF?I would assume Ozzie was blinded by the glare from the ten Gold Gloves. You know, the ones he stopped winning years ago.

Sockinchisox
04-08-2010, 01:44 PM
Sox:

Pierre dh
Beckham 2b
Quentin rf
Konerko 1b
Jones cf
Pierzynski c
Rios lf
Teahen 3b
Ramiez ss

Floyd p

GoGoCrede
04-08-2010, 01:45 PM
I'm sorry that I'm not going to this one - I'll miss seeing Floyd's 2010 debut (it figures that I'd miss his first start!).

For those of you who are going, bundle up. It was absolutely miserable out there last night.

Go get 'em, #34!!!

sox1970
04-08-2010, 01:46 PM
Change Beckham's position.

I would put Rios in the 5-hole, and Jones in the 7-hole, but I like the 9 guys playing tonight.

Huisj
04-08-2010, 01:47 PM
Surprising that they wouldn't have more lefties against Masterson. I thought I read that lefties hit .330 off him last year.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 01:47 PM
There is zero reason for Jones to be in CF. We have a CF, his name is Alex Rios.

mbwhitesox
04-08-2010, 01:49 PM
Decent lineup. We have a pretty strong defensive outfield with Rios in left and Jones in center.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 01:50 PM
Decent lineup. We have a pretty strong defensive outfield with Rios in left and Jones in center.

Maybe if we had Rios in center and Jones in left, then yes. Jones is not a CF anymore.

sox1970
04-08-2010, 01:50 PM
There is zero reason for Jones to be in CF. We have a CF, his name is Alex Rios.

I agree.

The Immigrant
04-08-2010, 01:54 PM
I expected some positive vibes in this thread now that Kotsay is not in the lineup, but I guess there's always something to bitch about.

October26
04-08-2010, 02:00 PM
I predict that Floyd will be awesome.


:thumbsup: I like the way you think. Go Gavin and Go Sox!

DickAllen72
04-08-2010, 02:02 PM
There is zero reason for Jones to be in CF. We have a CF, his name is Alex Rios.
True. And that CFer is locked up for years with a long-term big money contract. Why move him around to accomodate a one year rental? If Jones has a decent year Boras will see to it that he signs a big-money contract with another team next year anyway, and if he starts most of the year in CF it will just add to his value while the better defensive Rios is forced to play LF rather than CF.

Ozzie can be so frustrating at times.

mantis1212
04-08-2010, 02:15 PM
There is zero reason for Jones to be in CF. We have a CF, his name is Alex Rios.

No kidding- I generally trust Ozzie's judgement in the controversial moves like Kotsay, etc but Rios belongs in CF.

He needs to get to a level of comfort in CF where he's fully in charge of the outfield (unlike when Dye was there), but now he's getting moved around for Jones- I don't like it.

SephClone89
04-08-2010, 02:15 PM
I would assume Ozzie was blinded by the glare from the ten Gold Gloves. You know, the ones he stopped winning years ago.

By that criteria, Jake Peavy stopped winning Cy Youngs years ago as well.

I heard people tossing this idea around all spring. Jones played a lot of CF this spring. I didn't hear many disagreements, especially none bordering on the outrage on display here. Calm the hell down, people.

GoGoCrede
04-08-2010, 02:17 PM
No kidding- I generally trust Ozzie's judgement in the controversial moves like Kotsay, etc but Rios belongs in CF.

He needs to get to a level of comfort in CF where he's fully in charge of the outfield (unlike when Dye was there), but now he's getting moved around for Jones- I don't like it.

It's just one game...

Marqhead
04-08-2010, 02:20 PM
It's just one game...

You can say that now, but if history is any indicator he'll be out there on a regular basis.

It really makes zero sense. What's wrong with Jones in left? This is very ridiculous to me as well.

Brian26
04-08-2010, 02:20 PM
It's just one game...

Someone must have also said that after Mackowiak took over for BA in CF for the 2nd game of the 2006 season.

GoGoCrede
04-08-2010, 02:21 PM
Someone must have also said that after Mackowiak took over for BA in CF for the 2nd game of the 2006 season.

I don't know. The situations just don't seem that similar to me. I mean, if in a month Rios is still being yanked around, then I can see cause for concern. Right now, it's our third game.

But that's just me. Baseball is back! :gulp:

SoxPark1
04-08-2010, 02:22 PM
True. And that CFer is locked up for years with a long-term big money contract. Why move him around to accomodate a one year rental? If Jones has a decent year Boras will see to it that he signs a big-money contract with another team next year anyway, and if he starts most of the year in CF it will just add to his value while the better defensive Rios is forced to play LF rather than CF.

Ozzie can be so frustrating at times.

It is just one game! Ozzie is Ozzie, but I see Rios having the vast majority of time in CF. We won't have Jones next year anyways. Eh, let us see how it plays out tonight! Gavin's curveball will be on tonight. Fo sho

oeo
04-08-2010, 02:22 PM
A better question would be, why the hell is Rios in LF? Jones should be in RF, Quentin should be DH'ing. That's probably the best possible defensive outfield we can have.

Jones isn't going to kill us in CF, he looked good in the Spring Training games I saw, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Marqhead
04-08-2010, 02:24 PM
A better question would be, why the hell is Rios in LF? Jones should be in RF, Quentin should be DH'ing. That's probably the best possible defensive outfield we can have.

Would you rather have Quentin or Pierre in the field is what it comes down too. If Jones is going to play I'd rather see Quentin at DH to give him some time off from the field so his injury risk is less this season.

JermaineDye05
04-08-2010, 02:25 PM
I agree.

There is zero reason for Jones to be in CF. We have a CF, his name is Alex Rios.

Andruw Jones can still play CF. He showed that in AZ, despite the fact that AZ is typically horrible for OF during ST. I see no problem with either Jones or Rios playing in CF.

Some people are acting as if Ozzie is throwing Rob Mackowiak back out there.

mantis1212
04-08-2010, 02:28 PM
You can say that now, but if history is any indicator he'll be out there on a regular basis.

It really makes zero sense. What's wrong with Jones in left? This is very ridiculous to me as well.

Ozzie must think Jones a better CF and he doesn't think this will mess with Rios' head- that's the only explanation. If Jones starts hitting don't be surprised to see this lineup for the majority of the year.

Dibbs
04-08-2010, 02:28 PM
None of you have ever played in the majors and Ozzie has. Also, this is what he does for a living. Jones in CF must be the correct decision.

JermaineDye05
04-08-2010, 02:30 PM
For the people that think Jones has fallen off as a defender these last couple of years...

The reason he wasn't as good was because his range dropped significantly because he was, to put it simply, fat.

He's not fat anymore, unless he decided to put on 25 lbs after ST. He'll be fine.

spawn
04-08-2010, 02:30 PM
You know, I try my very best to be supportive of Ozzie and his decisions. But why the **** is Rios in LF and Jones in CF? Rios has much more range than Jones. I know Jones has won Gold Gloves, But he's not the same player now. ****ing Ozzie.


Rant over.

CWSpalehoseCWS
04-08-2010, 02:30 PM
Nice to see Jones get a chance, but Rios in LF? I could understand Jones in CF and Rios in RF with Q shifting back to LF, but why put you best fielding OF in LF?

DirtySox
04-08-2010, 02:33 PM
For the people that think Jones has fallen off as a defender these last couple of years...

The reason he wasn't as good was because his range dropped significantly because he was, to put it simply, fat.

He's not fat anymore, unless he decided to put on 25 lbs after ST. He'll be fine.

I don't care that Jones will play a "suitable" CF. Rios is the better center fielder period. Why be satisfied with an non optimal defensive alignment?

SoxPark1
04-08-2010, 02:38 PM
I don't care that Jones will play a "suitable" CF. Rios is the better center fielder period. Why be satisfied with an non optimal defensive alignment?

Yes Rios is the better defender as of now. But this move is not going to ruin our season. Jones will not lose us the game with his defense tonight. Maybe Rios will need to throw someone out in left lol, Juan would have trouble in this department. lol GO SOX

NLaloosh
04-08-2010, 02:46 PM
1. Putting Jones in CF is not crazy. The guy was one of the best ever at the position until 2 years ago. Let's see if he's as good as Rios now. Maybe they're about equal and it would be good to give them both time in RF and CF.

2. Why Rios, probably your best OFer is in LF I don't understand.

3. Who is a better LFer, Pierre or Quentin?

4. I would think that it would be best to rest Quentin at DH more than Pierre because Pierre will sit against some lefties anyway.

Unless Ozzie truly thinks that Rios, Jones, Quentin is a better defensive OF than Pierre, Jones, Rios then I don't understand.

Protect Quentin not Pierre. We'll see.

Slappy
04-08-2010, 02:48 PM
I like the Jones in CF move. Rios got complacent yesterday and should have laid out for that ball he flubbed instead of half-way committing to it. No way Jones would do that, even at the sickeningly old age of 32.

I still don't know how I feel about Gordon in the 2 hole at this point. Would it make any sense to try batting Rios 2nd? Just curious.

Let's go today, boys. Tough out this (hopefully) last cold one and take the series!

spawn
04-08-2010, 02:52 PM
I like the Jones in CF move. Rios got complacent yesterday and should have laid out for that ball he flubbed instead of half-way committing to it. No way Jones would do that, even at the sickeningly old age of 32.

If you're talking about the hit that scored the go ahead run, Rios could've laid out all he wanted...he wasn't going to catch it. And he has been anything but complacent defensively. And a complacent Rios is still a better CFer than Jones.

oeo
04-08-2010, 02:53 PM
This place needs an eight game winning streak.

NLaloosh
04-08-2010, 02:54 PM
Beckham has batted in the two slot quite a bit in his career and the Sox want to get Rios untracked and comfortable before giving him too much responsibility in the lineup.

That's how I see it. I think they are hoping that Rios plays well enough to move him to the 2 spot and he can steal some bases for them. Beckham would be better suited to an RBI spot. I think they're hoping that it works out that way later in the year.

If that happens and Teahen steps his game up then the Sox will have a potent enough lineup.

JermaineDye05
04-08-2010, 02:55 PM
This place needs an eight game winning streak.

We could win 20 games in a row and fans would still complain about something. It's the nature of the beast.

oeo
04-08-2010, 02:55 PM
If you're talking about the hit that scored the go ahead run, Rios could've laid out all he wanted...he wasn't going to catch it. And he has been anything but complacent defensively. And a complacent Rios is still a better CFer than Jones.

It looked like he took a terrible route to it and just wasn't sure.

And let's not equate Andruw Jones to Rob Mackowiak here.

Slappy
04-08-2010, 02:59 PM
If you're talking about the hit that scored the go ahead run, Rios could've laid out all he wanted...he wasn't going to catch it. And he has been anything but complacent defensively. And a complacent Rios is still a better CFer than Jones.

The catch he made to end the opener was awesome, I admit, and I'm rooting for the guy as much as anyone. But, I think you're letting that blind you.

I still think we'll have to see if Jones can't hold his own in center to be able to say that Rios is a better defender at this point.

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:01 PM
The catch he made to end the opener was awesome, I admit, and I'm rooting for the guy as much as anyone. But, I think you're letting that blind you.

I'm not letting one ****ing catch blind me. *****. If you don't think Rios is a better CFer than Jones at this point in both of their careers, then I'm not the one with blinders on.

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:03 PM
And let's not equate Andruw Jones to Rob Mackowiak here.
Trust me, I'm not comapring Jones to Mackowiak. I know Jones can play the position. I just don't think he's going to be able to play the gaps as well as Rios. If this was a one time thing, fine. But if Jones gets hot offensively, Ozzie will keep running him out there. That's what I worry about.

Slappy
04-08-2010, 03:04 PM
Settle down, man. Agree to disagree, ok?

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:07 PM
Settle down, man. Agree to disagree, ok?
Then don't tell me I'm letting one catch blind me, like I'm some novice baseball observer. :rolleyes:

voodoochile
04-08-2010, 03:08 PM
No kidding- I generally trust Ozzie's judgement in the controversial moves like Kotsay, etc but Rios belongs in CF.

He needs to get to a level of comfort in CF where he's fully in charge of the outfield (unlike when Dye was there), but now he's getting moved around for Jones- I don't like it.

He's been in the league a long time. I don't think he's going to lose it over a start in LF today...

VMSNS
04-08-2010, 03:09 PM
Why is Rios in left? Why not just put Rios in right, and Quentin in left?

bigdommer
04-08-2010, 03:12 PM
I expected some positive vibes in this thread now that Kotsay is not in the lineup, but I guess there's always something to bitch about.

My first thought when I read this thread. Frank Thomas circa '93/'94 could be DHing in the 3 hole, and people would complain about being too right handed.

gregoriop
04-08-2010, 03:12 PM
I can't believe how mad people are getting and we haven't even played game 3 yet.

voodoochile
04-08-2010, 03:12 PM
Why is Rios in left? Why not just put Rios in right, and Quentin in left?
Now that I think is a comfort level thing. Let Quentin settle in to RF full time...

Slappy
04-08-2010, 03:12 PM
Then don't tell me I'm letting one catch blind me, like I'm some novice baseball observer. :rolleyes:

Listen, I just was not happy with the route Rios took to that ball, and if Ozzie is going to give Jones a chance in center sometime this season (like we all know he would sooner or later because he's constantly been saying so every day), then now is as good a time as ever.

If I would change anything, I'd put Rios in RF, but then you'd possibly be rattling Quentin a little with the position changes, and he's too important to the offense to have that come back and bite us in the butt.

Marqhead
04-08-2010, 03:17 PM
I can't believe how mad people are getting and we haven't even played game 3 yet.

We are getting mad because it makes no sense to not put your best defensive line up out in the field for every single game. I don't care if it's game 3, 50 or 162 I want the nine guys in the lineup to be at their best defensive positions. In my, and many others opinion that is not the case today and there is really no managerial excuse for it.

DickAllen72
04-08-2010, 03:17 PM
Now that I think is a comfort level thing. Let Quentin settle in to RF full time...
.....And let Rios settle in to CF. Jones should be the one moving around. Rios and Quentin are going to be with the Sox for years to come.

doublem23
04-08-2010, 03:18 PM
I can't believe how mad people are getting and we haven't even played game 3 yet.

A lot of people weren't too thrilled with this roster going into the season. Watching Ozzie make silly managerial decisions just doesn't help that.

oeo
04-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Now that I think is a comfort level thing. Let Quentin settle in to RF full time...

Quentin has played RF most of his life, and has played LF the past two years. I think he would be okay.

I'd rather Quentin just DH, though, because he looks as shaky in RF as he did LF. Pierre tracked down a couple of balls yesterday Quentin would have had no chance on the last couple years.

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:20 PM
Listen, I just was not happy with the route Rios took to that ball, and if Ozzie is going to give Jones a chance in center sometime this season (like we all know he would sooner or later because he's constantly been saying so every day), then now is as good a time as ever.

If I would change anything, I'd put Rios in RF, but then you'd possibly be rattling Quentin a little with the position changes, and he's too important to the offense to have that come back and bite us in the butt.
Your position is understandable, but your response to me was a bit insulting. Maybe you didn't mean it to be, but it was. Now, Rios may have taken a bad route to the ball, but I don't believe that is due to complacency. He made a bad read. It happens.

If anything, Rios needs to stay in center, Carlos needs to stay in right, and Jones should be in left. I trust Rios to cover the left center and right center alleys more than I do Jones. And again, if this were the only time he was run out there, I'd be fine with it. But I picture Ozzie running Jones out there consistently, especially if he gets hot with the bat. Jones has slimmed down, and can probably play the position better than he has been able to the last coule of years, but I still believe Rios to be the superior defensive outfielder on this team.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-08-2010, 03:20 PM
.....And let Rios settle in to CF. Jones should be the one moving around. Rios and Quentin are going to be with the Sox for years to come.
Exactly, Jones and Pierre are one year players.

bigdommer
04-08-2010, 03:21 PM
I can't believe how mad people are getting and we haven't even played game 3 yet.

Are you happy with a .500 ball club at this point in the season?

Now you know why David Ortiz had a profanity laced tirade the other night. Ozzie's probably next in line.

oeo
04-08-2010, 03:21 PM
Exactly, Jones and Pierre are one year players.

Pierre is still under contract in 2011.

Dibbs
04-08-2010, 03:22 PM
I can't believe how mad people are getting and we haven't even played game 3 yet.

I always get a kick out of this. There were people that said this for game 1. Then for game 2. Eventually for game 16 when we are 1/10 of the way through the year.

A bad decision is a bad decision regardless of what game it is. They all count the same.

oeo
04-08-2010, 03:24 PM
I always get a kick out of this. There were people that said this for game 1. Then for game 2. Eventually for game 16 when we are 1/10 of the way through the year.

A bad decision is a bad decision regardless of what game it is. They all count the same.

Save the stress on the heart because "bad decisions" in baseball are mostly opinionated.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-08-2010, 03:25 PM
Pierre is still under contract in 2011.
Yeah, as soon as I hit submit, I thought wait, I'm wrong. I went back to edit, but you were too fast. My bad!

Slappy
04-08-2010, 03:28 PM
Your position is understandable, but your response to me was a bit insulting. Maybe you didn't mean it to be, but it was. Now, Rios may have taken a bad route to the ball, but I don't believe that is due to complacency. He made a bad read. It happens.

If anything, Rios needs to stay in center, Carlos needs to stay in right, and Jones should be in left. I trust Rios to cover the left center and right center alleys more than I do Jones. And again, if this were the only time he was run out there, I'd be fine with it. But I picture Ozzie running Jones out there consistently, especially if he gets hot with the bat. Jones has slimmed down, and can probably play the position better than he has been able to the last coule of years, but I still believe Rios to be the superior defensive outfielder on this team.

I wasn't trying to attack you at all.

Anyway, you still have not convinced me that Jones, (who has 10 times the amount of gold gloves than that of Rios) at 32, is not as good a defender as Rios at this point, especially without seeing him play a minute of regular season ball.

Heck, I would say Rowand is a better defender at Rios at this point, who is also 32.

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:29 PM
I wasn't trying to attack you at all.

Anyway, you still have not convinced me that Jones, (who has 10 times the amount of gold gloves than that of Rios) at 32, is not as good a defender as Rios at this point, especially without seeing him play a minute of regular season ball.

Heck, I would say Rowand is a better defender at Rios at this point, who is also 32.
:thud: This conversation is over.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 03:30 PM
I wasn't trying to attack you at all.

Anyway, you still have not convinced me that Jones, (who has 10 times the amount of gold gloves than that of Rios) at 32, is not as good a defender as Rios at this point, especially without seeing him play a minute of regular season ball.

Heck, I would say Rowand is a better defender at Rios at this point, who is also 32.

Rowand has a higher RIWR (run into wall ratio), but that's about it.

Taliesinrk
04-08-2010, 03:33 PM
I wasn't trying to attack you at all.

Anyway, you still have not convinced me that Jones, (who has 10 times the amount of gold gloves than that of Rios) at 32, is not as good a defender as Rios at this point, especially without seeing him play a minute of regular season ball.

Heck, I would say Rowand is a better defender at Rios at this point, who is also 32.

Actually, Jones has infinitely more GG's than Rios.

Slappy
04-08-2010, 03:35 PM
:thud: This conversation is over.

Haha. Well then you win I guess, huh?

:D:

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Actually, Jones has infinitely more GG's than Rios.

Which isn't relevant to the conversation in the first place. Vizquel has a bunch of Gold Gloves at SS, too. So let's play Alexei at third and Vizquel at SS when Vizquel plays.

Slappy
04-08-2010, 03:37 PM
Straw man, ftw?

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:37 PM
Haha. Well then you win I guess, huh?

:D:
Well, IMO there is no winner or loser...it's all opinion. But if you think Aaron Rowand is a better CFer than Rios, then we will deffinitely not agree on a Rios/Jones comparision.

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:39 PM
Actually, Jones has infinitely more GG's than Rios.

Which isn't relevant to the conversation in the first place. Vizquel has a bunch of Gold Gloves at SS, too. So let's play Alexei at third and Vizquel at SS when Vizquel plays.
I think the point he's making is that Rios hasn't won a GG, so 10 X 0 = 0. He's won 10 more than Rios, yes. But not 10 times more.

Slappy
04-08-2010, 03:39 PM
Well, IMO there is no winner or loser...it's all opinion. But if you think Aaron Rowand is a better CFer than Rios, then we will deffinitely not agree on a Rios/Jones comparision.

Indeed it's all opinion. I'm glad you're seeing the light after going on a profanity laced tirade only a few posts ago. :D:

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 03:40 PM
I think the point he's making is that Rios hasn't won a GG, so 10 X 0 = 0. He's won 10 more than Rios, yes. But not 10 times more.

Well, yes I know that - but 10 or infinite it doesn't matter. Jones is not the best CF on this team, and he should only be in CF when Rios has a day off.

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:40 PM
Indeed it's all opinion. I'm glad you're seeing the light after going on a profanity laced tirade only a few posts ago. :D:
You haven't seen me go on a profanity laced tirade. Trust me.

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:41 PM
Well, yes I know that - but 10 or infinite it doesn't matter. Jones is not the best CF on this team, and he should only be in CF when Rios has a day off.
Hey, I agree 100%.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 03:42 PM
Straw man, ftw?

Every disagreement here will fall into one of those categories. And what's the difference? We'd be moving our everyday player at that position for a now inferior player at the position they were once really great at.

Slappy
04-08-2010, 03:43 PM
You haven't seen me go on a profanity laced tirade. Trust me.

My heart and I thank you for that. :D:

gregoriop
04-08-2010, 03:43 PM
I'm willing to give Ozzie the benefit of the doubt, considering I've never managed a major league ballclub, let alone see Andruw play CF lately. This thread is great.

Slappy
04-08-2010, 03:44 PM
Every disagreement here will fall into one of those categories.

I'm not sure which logical fallacy that is, but I'm sure it is one!

jabrch
04-08-2010, 03:46 PM
Serious question - Sol? Spawn? I haven't really seen enough of either to formulate an opinion this year.

Why are people convinced that Rios (this year) is a better defensive CF than Jones? I honestly haven't seen him play CF yet this year, so I have no data to formulate an opinion. You can't tell much on TV as you only see a part of what he does - you don't see positioning or jump or speed in many cases.

I'm curious as to why people are 100% convinced that Rios is better than Jones - given that we all seem to agree that Jones appears to be in the best shape he has looked in a few years. I'm not in any position to have an opinion either way - having not seen Jones play at all.

Taliesinrk
04-08-2010, 03:47 PM
Well, yes I know that - but 10 or infinite it doesn't matter. Jones is not the best CF on this team, and he should only be in CF when Rios has a day off.

It may not matter to you, but I think math skill deficiencies are something holding our young people back. Seriously, I just felt like the thread was a bit on the serious side, and it was the first thing that came to mind to try to lighten it up a bit (although when he first wrote it, I actually looked to see if Rios had previously won a GG).

asindc
04-08-2010, 03:47 PM
Rowand has a higher RIWR (run into wall ratio), but that's about it.

:rolling:

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:47 PM
I'm willing to give Ozzie the benefit of the doubt, considering I've never managed a major league ballclub, let alone see Andruw play CF lately. This thread is great.
I gave Ozzie the benefit of the doubt when he kept running Rob Macoviak out to CF.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he ran Datin Erstad out to CF.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he ran Dewayne Wise out to CF.

I usually try to give him the benefit of the doubt most of the time. It's just the frustration coming out of me right now. I see this playing over and over and over. Maybe Jones will excel in CF and prove all of us naysayers wrong. I really, truly want that. But if he struggles, I just envision Ozzie continuing to send him out htere because he is a former GG winner. he's been pretty stuborn in that respect.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 03:49 PM
Serious question - I haven't really seen enough of either to formulate an opinion this year.

Why are people convinced that Rios (this year) is a better defensive CF than Jones? I honestly haven't seen him play CF yet this year, so I have no data to formulate an opinion. You can't tell much on TV as you only see a part of what he does - you don't see positioning or jump or speed in many cases.

I'm curious as to why people are 100% convinced that Rios is better than Jones - given that we all seem to agree that Jones appears to be in the best shape he has looked in a few years. I'm not in any position to have an opinion either way - having not seen Jones play at all.

My biggest problem with it is that there is NO REASON to be moving around Rios. He is an everyday player. He should play everyday at the same position.

Tell him he is your CF and let him play. None of this bull**** moving around guys.

jabrch
04-08-2010, 03:51 PM
My biggest problem with it is that there is NO REASON to be moving around Rios. He is an everyday player. He should play everyday at the same position.

Tell him he is your CF and let him play. None of this bull**** moving around guys.

So for you it isn't about who's the better defender, it's about keeping Rios where he is and not moving him around? I understand - makes sense. Not sure if I think it matters much - but I understand.

mbwhitesox
04-08-2010, 03:53 PM
I gave Ozzie the benefit of the doubt when he kept running Rob Macoviak out to CF.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he ran Datin Erstad out to CF.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he ran Dewayne Wise out to CF.

I usually try to give him the benefit of the doubt most of the time. It's just the frustration coming out of me right now. I see this playing over and over and over. Maybe Jones will excel in CF and prove all of us naysayers wrong. I really, truly want that. But if he struggles, I just envision Ozzie continuing to send him out htere because he is a former GG winner. he's been pretty stuborn in that respect.

Come on, Jones is a much better CF than all three of those guys you mentioned. I really don't understand what all the commotion is about. There's no reason to think Jones is significantly worse than Rios in center. If you look at these guys over their entire career, Jones is the better CF.
Now will that remain true this year? That remains to be seen. Jones at least deserves a shot out there first.

BainesHOF
04-08-2010, 03:53 PM
This lineup is ridiculous. Assuming Jones is our best defensive center fielder, Quentin should be in left and Rios in right.

voodoochile
04-08-2010, 03:54 PM
Jones in CF and Rios in LF might be as much about putting Jones in a comfort zone as anything given it's his first start and CF is the position he has played the most in his career and in ST and that he's never played a game in USCF as an OF (I don't think).

Rios is the veteran team member, so moving him on some levels makes more sense.

But, it's just a theory. I don't have anything to back it up other than conjecture...

mantis1212
04-08-2010, 03:54 PM
My biggest problem with it is that there is NO REASON to be moving around Rios. He is an everyday player. He should play everyday at the same position.

Tell him he is your CF and let him play. None of this bull**** moving around guys.


I agree- I think what's frustrating the most is the fact that we've seen a merry-go-round of sub-par centerfielders over the past 5 years, and now that we have one (making top dollar by the way) he's not playing CF today.

voodoochile
04-08-2010, 03:55 PM
This lineup is ridiculous. Assuming Jones is our best defensive center fielder, Quentin should be in left and Rios in right.

I don't think you want to move Quentin around that much given his past foot problems and wanting him to find a comfort zone that will hopefully translate to better offensive results.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 03:55 PM
So for you it isn't about who's the better defender, it's about keeping Rios where he is and not moving him around? I understand - makes sense. Not sure if I think it matters much - but I understand.

Mostly, yes; but I also think Rios is a very good center fielder. It's not like we are suffering out there with him at all, so why change it?

jabrch
04-08-2010, 03:56 PM
I agree- I think what's frustrating the most is the fact that we've seen a merry-go-round of sub-par centerfielders over the past 5 years, and now that we have one (making top dollar by the way) he's not playing CF today.


Do you not believe Andruw Jones can play CF? I'm curious.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 03:56 PM
I don't think you want to move Quentin around that much given his past foot problems and wanting him to find a comfort zone that will hopefully translate to better offensive results.

But don't we want the exact same thing from Rios - possibly moreso?

Lillian
04-08-2010, 03:56 PM
Ozzie must be reading my posts. Here is what I wrote on Soxtalk yesterday:

"If Jones can produce as the clean up hitter, or number 5, then A. J. should bat 6th in order to mix up the lefty, righty hitters.
Then I love Rios as the 7th hitter. It provides an opportunity to have an exceptionally good bottom third of the lineup.
Rios, with his a legitimate stolen base threat, can function like a lead off hitter for the bottom third of the order. Yet, he can also drive in guys who get on base in the middle of the order.
Then Teahen can bat 8th, and Alexei 9th. Ramirez has the ability to drive in the big run, with decent power, but also gives you another guy with decent speed, who functions like another lead off hitter. All three of those guys are at the age when they should be coming into their primes.

While the Sox offense may not feature the most intimidating middle of the order, its total depth and versatility is very good. The bottom of their order could be as potent as just about anyone's."

Obviously, therefore I love this lineup, although I agree that I would have had Rios in Center or Right, with Quentin in Left. I'm fine with Jones in CF.
With the shape he's in, he is arguably the best centerfielder on this team.

Slappy
04-08-2010, 03:58 PM
Ozzie must be reading my posts. Here is what I wrote on Soxtalk yesterday:

"If Jones can produce as the clean up hitter, or number 5, then A. J. should bat 6th in order to mix up the lefty, righty hitters.
Then I love Rios as the 7th hitter. It provides an opportunity to have an exceptionally good bottom third of the lineup.
Rios, with his a legitimate stolen base threat, can function like a lead off hitter for the bottom third of the order. Yet, he can also drive in guys who get on base in the middle of the order.
Then Teahen can bat 8th, and Alexei 9th. Ramirez has the ability to drive in the big run, with decent power, but also gives you another guy with decent speed, who functions like another lead off hitter. All three of those guys are at the age when they should be coming into their primes.

While the Sox offense may not feature the most intimidating middle of the order, its total depth and versatility is very good. The bottom of their order could be as potent as just about anyone's."

Obviously, therefore I love this lineup, although I agree that I would have had Rios in Center or Right, with Quentin in Left. I'm fine with Jones in CF.
With the shape he's in, he is arguably the best centerfielder on this team.

Yeah, I like that idea.

jabrch
04-08-2010, 03:58 PM
Mostly, yes; but I also think Rios is a very good center fielder. It's not like we are suffering out there with him at all, so why change it?


I don't know - I don't have much an explanation. My best guess is that Guillen thinks Jones is a better CF than Rios? But that's purely a guess - I have no idea.

Rios has 7142 innings played in the OF in his career. How many were in CF? 1137.

Andruw has 15,592 IP in the OF - 14732 in CF.

It is possible that Jones is a better CF...I don't know.

spawn
04-08-2010, 03:59 PM
Come on, Jones is a much better CF than all three of those guys you mentioned. I really don't understand what all the commotion is about. There's no reason to think Jones is significantly worse than Rios in center. If you look at these guys over their entire career, Jones is the better CF.
Now will that remain true this year? That remains to be seen. Jones at least deserves a shot out there first.
I'm not trying to compare playing ability. Ozzie has a pattern of continuing to play guys that may not be the best at that position...CF in particular. Over their entire careers, Jones has been the better CFer. But is he the better CFer this year? From what I've seen of Jones during ST and Riso in ST and the beginning of the season so far, Rios appears to me to be the better CFer. That said, I could be wrong. I hope I am. And as soultrain has pointed out, we've been without a legitimate CFer for 4 years. We finally have one, and Ozzie wants to move him around so Jones can get playing time? I just don't get it. :shrug:

voodoochile
04-08-2010, 04:00 PM
But don't we want the exact same thing from Rios - possibly moreso?

Yes, but Rios is also more veteran than Quentin and doesn't have foot injury issues. He's also known for his defense. He should be able to make this transition and not have to think about it much if at all.

And again, it's Jones first start, putting him in a comfort zone might be part of the driving philosophy behind this switch.

I really don't see this as being nearly the huge issue so many are making it out to be, but it seems to be the year where everything is being questioned no matter how innocuous.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 04:02 PM
Yes, but Rios is also more veteran than Quentin and doesn't have foot injury issues. He's also known for his defense. He should be able to make this transition and not have to think about it much if at all.

And again, it's Jones first start, putting him in a comfort zone might be part of the driving philosophy behind this switch.

I really don't see this as being nearly the huge issue so many are making it out to be, but it seems to be the year where everything is being questioned no matter how innocuous.

Well if they are worried so much about Quentin's foot then they should have him playing DH everyday.

voodoochile
04-08-2010, 04:04 PM
Well if they are worried so much about Quentin's foot then they should have him playing DH everyday.

No they aren't but why risk it?

This is getting silly... I'm out...

mantis1212
04-08-2010, 04:05 PM
Do you not believe Andruw Jones can play CF? I'm curious.

I do believe Jones can play CF- possibly just as good as Rios. I just think our everyday CF should be just that- playing everyday. He should find a comfort zone and be in charge of that outfield like a CF is supposed to be.

I think moving him around undermines that idea.

spawn
04-08-2010, 04:06 PM
Yes, but Rios is also more veteran than Quentin and doesn't have foot injury issues. He's also known for his defense. He should be able to make this transition and not have to think about it much if at all.
But Jones is more veteran than Rios. Why isn't he being asked to make the transition, especially seeing as he's the one trying to resurrect his career?

I really don't see this as being nearly the huge issue so many are making it out to be, but it seems to be the year where everything is being questioned no matter how innocuous.
I think a lot of it has to do with Ozzie's history of playing players out of position, and then stubbornly sticking to it. And yes, I know...Jones is a natural CFer, and a very good one. I just don't think he's the best one on this team. But, that along with the rotating DH and what many consider to be an anemic offense, people are being a little more open with their criticism of Ozzie. Who knows? It could be much ado about nothing.

TheOldRoman
04-08-2010, 04:08 PM
Rowand has a higher RIWR (run into wall ratio), but that's about it.Incidentally, that is the only defensive metric with any basis in reality.

kufram
04-08-2010, 04:09 PM
I'm just happy that the worst center fielder we have is a 10 gold glover and in the best shape we could hope for at the moment. Considering the complaints about the position since Rowand left I'm satisfied that the position is finally covered. Rios wasn't so popular only a few months ago.

The outfield/DH/bench is a platoon of players with multi-faceted talents. It's the best off we've been for a while. This is a process. I don't drink Kool-aid... I just enjoy being a White Sox fan... when it causes too much pain in my life I just have it out of proportion.

mantis1212
04-08-2010, 04:12 PM
I really don't see this as being nearly the huge issue so many are making it out to be, but it seems to be the year where everything is being questioned no matter how innocuous.

I agree with this also- I don't like moving Rios to LF but they both start hitting the snot out out of the ball none of this matters...

BadBobbyJenks
04-08-2010, 04:17 PM
Kotsay is out, baby steps people.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 04:17 PM
I agree with this also- I don't like moving Rios to LF but they both start hitting the snot out out of the ball none of this matters...

This isn't fantasy baseball. Defense does matter.

Slappy
04-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Kotsay is out, baby steps people.

:gulp:

It didn't take me long to not be singing the praises of him. He has not looked too good at the plate!

SoxSpeed22
04-08-2010, 04:18 PM
This should make for an interesting game/postgame thread. Time to start this whole rotating DH thing.

mantis1212
04-08-2010, 04:21 PM
This isn't fantasy baseball. Defense does matter.


Didn't say it didn't matter- the defense will be there for both these guys whether they're in left or center.

jabrch
04-08-2010, 04:21 PM
This isn't fantasy baseball. Defense does matter.


But you aren't necesarily sacrificing... Rios has ~1000 innings of CF under his belt. Jones has about 14,000. Are you SURE that Rios is better? Are you sure that this isn't actually the right configuration?

At the end of the day, this isn't BA vs Wise. These are two guys who both show skill as defensive CFs. I'm not sure it is possible to conclude which is better and that this is a good or bad move with what we know. Like most of these discussions - this one feels like a difference of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction....and I can't tell if it is on the right or wrong side - and I wouldn't even know how to start to approach a reasonable assessment without any data - either quantitative statistics (which I believe suck eggs for measuring defense) or even a reasonable set of observations to use to compare/contrast.


:tomatoaward

doublem23
04-08-2010, 04:25 PM
But you aren't necesarily sacrificing... Rios has ~1000 innings of CF under his belt. Jones has about 14,000. Are you SURE that Rios is better? Are you sure that this isn't actually the right configuration?

That number is mostly due to the fact that for most of his career in Toronto the Blue Jays had a guy named Vernon Wells. This argument is really, really stupid. Mark Kotsay has played 1,002 innings in CF in his career, MAYBE HE SHOULD BE THE CENTER FIELDER.

Jones might be as good as Rios in CF, but there's no way he's a significant enough upgrade that its worth bouncing your everyday players around for.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 04:26 PM
But you aren't necesarily sacrificing... Rios has ~1000 innings of CF under his belt. Jones has about 14,000. Are you SURE that Rios is better? Are you sure that this isn't actually the right configuration?

At the end of the day, this isn't BA vs Wise. These are two guys who both show skill as defensive CFs. I'm not sure it is possible to conclude which is better and that this is a good or bad move with what we know.

Okay, fine. Let's say Jones is better in CF than Rios. Jones isn't playing everyday. So Rios is going to be bouncing back and forth from position to position. The same thing he did last year when he had a complete crapshow of a year.

Just leave Rios in center.

oeo
04-08-2010, 04:30 PM
Okay, fine. Let's say Jones is better in CF than Rios. Jones isn't playing everyday. So Rios is going to be bouncing back and forth from position to position. The same thing he did last year when he had a complete crapshow of a year.

Just leave Rios in center.

I think the 'bouncing around' stuff is way overrated. These are professional players, it shouldn't bother them going from one outfield position to another. It might bother a younger guy who has a lot going through his mind, but Rios has been here and has played multiple outfield positions, I think he will be okay. Plus, he wasn't bad last year because of where he was playing on defense.

veeter
04-08-2010, 04:32 PM
Rios should play CF everyday he is in the lineup. Stuuupid.Totally agree. But this might be one of those things Ozzie does to keep guys happy. Andrew might be a baby, and Rios may not care where he plays. Who knows. I still like the line-up.

getonbckthr
04-08-2010, 04:33 PM
Andruw Jones takes full control of his spot in the line-up today.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 04:33 PM
Andruw Jones takes full control of his spot in the line-up today.

Let's hope so.

jabrch
04-08-2010, 04:34 PM
That number is mostly due to the fact that for most of his career in Toronto the Blue Jays had a guy named Vernon Wells. This argument is really, really stupid. Mark Kotsay has played 1,002 innings in CF in his career, MAYBE HE SHOULD BE THE CENTER FIELDER.

Jones might be as good as Rios in CF, but there's no way he's a significant enough upgrade that its worth bouncing your everyday players around for.

Sorry Dubs - either you are just being a dick, or you completely missed my point.

I'm talking about one being a more experienced CF. Why are you mentioning Kotsay in this? You are the only person suggesting it - he's neither experienced, nor proven as a CF, while Jones is. Kotsay's innings, (which you are the only one discussing) would be relevant only if someone actually felt he was the answer to play CF. Personally, I think he's the fourth best CF on the team - and I don't expect to see him there unless something odd happens. (Dye had to play SS once)

Thanks for pointing out who played CF in Toronto. You are (of course) absolutely right. A guy named Vernon Wells played there. Funny, a guy named Andruw Jones is starting there today.

Rios/Jones...Jones/Rios...There is no right/wrong here. It is completely opinion.

Kotsay? Really Dubs? I don't get you sometimes. That's a real reach even by your standards of Jones-hate.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-08-2010, 04:36 PM
ozzie is so cute

jabrch
04-08-2010, 04:36 PM
Okay, fine. Let's say Jones is better in CF than Rios. Jones isn't playing everyday. So Rios is going to be bouncing back and forth from position to position. The same thing he did last year when he had a complete crapshow of a year.

Just leave Rios in center.


I'm not sure if there is any causation or correlation between the two. Lots of things may have contributed to his bad year, right?

I just don't see the difference. Wish I did - just don't. We are going to see lots of guys in lots of positions this year.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 04:41 PM
I'm not sure if there is any causation or correlation between the two. Lots of things may have contributed to his bad year, right?

I just don't see the difference. Wish I did - just don't. We are going to see lots of guys in lots of positions this year.

And I just don't agree with doing that. The only "position" changes we should see changing is your regular position to DH to bench.

The Dude
04-08-2010, 04:44 PM
There is zero reason for Jones to be in CF. We have a CF, his name is Alex Rios.

Another reason why Ozzie is a fool at making a lineup. Reminds me of Rob Mac:rolleyes:

oeo
04-08-2010, 04:45 PM
Reminds me of Rob Mac:rolleyes:

Yep, so similar. :rolleyes:

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 04:48 PM
Another reason why Ozzie is a fool at making a lineup. Reminds me of Rob Mac:rolleyes:

Except Andruw Jones is a Major League CF who has experience at the position and can still play it. Mack was a freaking infielder.

jabrch
04-08-2010, 04:55 PM
Yep, so similar. :rolleyes:

Except Andruw Jones is a Major League CF who has experience at the position and can still play it. Mack was a freaking infielder.


Other than that - exactly the same... :cool:

voodoochile
04-08-2010, 04:56 PM
Another reason why Ozzie is a fool at making a lineup. Reminds me of Rob Mac:rolleyes:

Was this supposed to be in teal?

Andruw Jones = Rob Mackowiak in CF?

Is all rational thought on this topic gone?

That's just the most ridiculous over the top comment I've read in a long time...

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 04:58 PM
That's just the most ridiculous over the top comment I've read in a long time...

I know

Mackowiak = infielder who played CF for us
Jones = center-fielder who is playing... CF for us tonight

I don't think having 2 CFs playing the OF tonight will be any sort of defensive liability for this team.

voodoochile
04-08-2010, 04:59 PM
I know

Mackowiak = infielder who played CF for us
Jones = center-fielder who is playing... CF for us tonight

10 time Gold Glove winning CF...

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 05:00 PM
10 time Gold Glove winning CF...

Yep, who is only 32. Why does everyone act like he's Griffey's age or something? I swear I hear people talk about him like he's 40. Jones is in amazing shape so I don't think range will be an issue with him.

Noneck
04-08-2010, 05:00 PM
Who is a better cfer now, Rios or Jones? We really don't know yet, considering Jones was one of the best.

Who is a better rfer, Rios or Quentin? Rios

Who has played more left field over the past 2 seasons, Rios or Quentin? Quentin

Who played more rf in the past 2 years Rios or Quentin? Rios

Who should be more comfortable in left, Rios or Quentin? Quentin

Who will probably be on the Sox longer Rios or Quentin? Rios


This move tonight makes no sense, Ill sit back and let the company men support it.

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 05:03 PM
Who is a better cfer now, Rios or Jones? We really don't know yet, considering Jones was one of the best.

Who is a better rfer, Rios or Quentin? Rios

Who has played more left field over the past 2 seasons, Rios or Quentin? Quentin

Who should be more comfortable in left, Rios or Quentin? Quentin

Who will probably be on the Sox longer Rios or Quentin? Rios


This move tonight makes no sense, Ill sit back and let the company men support it.

Why put Quentin in left? You generally want the OF with the 2nd best range on your team in left. That would NOT be TCQ. Usually your outfielder with the least range plays right. TCQ belongs in RF if he's not DH'ing. Sure he played left the last few years, but that's because we had Dye. If we didn't have Dye, he would've spent the last 2 seasons in right.

longshot7
04-08-2010, 05:05 PM
Andruw Jones can still play CF. He showed that in AZ, despite the fact that AZ is typically horrible for OF during ST. I see no problem with either Jones or Rios playing in CF.

Some people are acting as if Ozzie is throwing Rob Mackowiak back out there.

I certainly am not going to equate Andruw with Rob freakin' MAckowiak for chrissakes.....

But I saw Andruw play CF in Arizona (in person) and he CANNOT cover the ground that Alex can. He just can't anymore. Maybe he CAN'T play Left? Regardless, I will wait and see and hope I'm wrong, but this seems boneheaded to me.

Noneck
04-08-2010, 05:07 PM
Why put Quentin in left? You generally want the OF with the 2nd best range on your team in left. That would NOT be TCQ. Usually your outfielder with the least range plays right. TCQ belongs in RF if he's not DH'ing. Sure he played left the last few years, but that's because we had Dye. If we didn't have Dye, he would've spent the last 2 seasons in right.

You cant compare Quentin and Rios defensively in RF. Rios is head and shoulders above Quentin.

I also am curious when the last time
Rios did play LF.

Danielgosox38
04-08-2010, 05:09 PM
The reason people are concerned about this, is because Ozzie did the same thing with Rios last year, by putting Pods in CF sometimes over Rios. Ozzie is known to make boneheaded decisions like this. Not to mention Wise in CF LOL.

getonbckthr
04-08-2010, 05:13 PM
Here's the facts people. Andruw jones is the best outfielder this team has, yes better than Rios. The past few years has been rough becuase after his big payday he got lazy and out of shape. Realizing this could be his last chance he is back in shape with hopes of revitalizing his career.

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 05:15 PM
You cant compare Quentin and Rios defensively in RF. Rios is head and shoulders above Quentin.



He is also better in LF than Quentin. Between the two, it's more important to have the better outfielder in left. that's why Rios will play there and Quentin will be in right.

DirtySox
04-08-2010, 05:16 PM
Here's the facts people. Andruw jones is the best outfielder this team has, yes better than Rios. The past few years has been rough becuase after his big payday he got lazy and out of shape. Realizing this could be his last chance he is back in shape with hopes of revitalizing his career.

Thanks for the facts. I wasn't sure.

Noneck
04-08-2010, 05:17 PM
it's more important to have the better outfielder in left.

That is not true.

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 05:20 PM
That is not true.

Range becomes more important in left than it is in right.

BadBobbyJenks
04-08-2010, 05:21 PM
Range becomes more important in left than it is in right.

Is that why we had Carlos Lee and Pods in left. The worst outfielder is always in left.

getonbckthr
04-08-2010, 05:25 PM
He is also better in LF than Quentin. Between the two, it's more important to have the better outfielder in left. that's why Rios will play there and Quentin will be in right.
In what baseball world? Is that why Carlos Lee, Ryan Braun, Juan Pierre, Scott Podsednik, Alfonso Soriano, Manny Ramirez, Josh Willingham and Johnny Damon are all Left Fielders?

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 05:26 PM
He is also better in LF than Quentin. Between the two, it's more important to have the better outfielder in left. that's why Rios will play there and Quentin will be in right.

Are you getting this info from the CRAZY STORE? You want the better outfielder in right. You want him preventing 1st to 3rd situations.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-08-2010, 05:54 PM
Wow, Rios getting real comfortable in CF and Ozzie does this ****. I've been a fan of his, but I don't like the love he's giving the a no longer proven outfielder. He should be LF or RF and that's it. DH Quentin... idk, just not this. I don't like it at all. I know Jones can be a great fielder... but I trust Rios and I wan't him to get comfortable out there.

I guess he's giving him a chance to prove himself, but I think our everyday players who are good at baseball should get the position they deserve. Oh well, I'm sure Ozzie knows more than me, and the downgrade or upgrade in defense, whatever it may be, wont be that noticeable.
I'm so mad for other reasons outside of the Sox so I might just be overreacting.

getonbckthr
04-08-2010, 05:56 PM
Wow, Rios getting real comfortable in CF and Ozzie does this ****. I've been a fan of his, but I don't like the love he's giving the a no longer proven outfielder. He should be LF or RF and that's it. DH Quentin... idk, just not this. I don't like it at all.

I guess he's giving him a chance to prove himself, but I think our everyday players who are good at baseball should get the position they deserve.
What exactly has Rios done to "deserve" CF over Jones? Because he makes 12 million more dollars?

Rdy2PlayBall
04-08-2010, 06:00 PM
What exactly has Rios done to "deserve" CF over Jones? Because he makes 12 million more dollars?NO. I was more into getting Rios comfortable. He has a much higher chance at being a good player than Jones at this point, and the last thing I want if for Rios to be thinking about what field he's going to play rather than concentrating on offense. Moving someone around is never a good thing. Rios also has made some good plays, so I don't think he's earned a position change.

I also overreacted to all this, but oh well, I still think Jones should just get used to DHing.

Craig Grebeck
04-08-2010, 06:05 PM
I mean, are you sure the moon isn't made of cheese? I'm not saying you have no right to believe it -- but are you sure?

Yes, I am sure this is a poor defensive alignment. ****ing hell, Jabs.

Corlose 15
04-08-2010, 06:18 PM
I mean, are you sure the moon isn't made of cheese? I'm not saying you have no right to believe it -- but are you sure?

Yes, I am sure this is a poor defensive alignment. ****ing hell, Jabs.

Are the moon rocks made of cheese?

Lillian
04-08-2010, 06:20 PM
He is also better in LF than Quentin. Between the two, it's more important to have the better outfielder in left. that's why Rios will play there and Quentin will be in right.

As others have pointed out, it is important to have the better fielder and especially the better arm, in right field. Moreover the Indians have a lot of good left handed hitters, which increases the probability of chances for the right fielder.

SI1020
04-08-2010, 06:32 PM
No kidding- I generally trust Ozzie's judgement in the controversial moves like Kotsay, etc but Rios belongs in CF.

He needs to get to a level of comfort in CF where he's fully in charge of the outfield (unlike when Dye was there), but now he's getting moved around for Jones- I don't like it. I agree. Part of Rios' problem last year I think is that he knew some outfield teammates were not happy the Sox acquired him. It made him press even harder.

GoGoCrede
04-08-2010, 06:42 PM
They just showed the ballpark on the pre-game show and it looks damn near empty. If the weather's anything like it was last night, people are wise to stay away.

Mohoney
04-08-2010, 06:46 PM
Did Andruw Jones play any LF in Spring Training? If Jones reads the ball much better in CF than he does in LF, then letting him play CF is fine. Rios can play all 3 OF positions, but can Jones do the same?

I probably would have had Quentin DH though, putting Pierre in LF and Rios in RF.

SI1020
04-08-2010, 07:01 PM
Is that why we had Carlos Lee and Pods in left. The worst outfielder is always in left. True.

Brian26
04-08-2010, 07:05 PM
Official 4/8 Gamethread is here:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2460486#post2460486

There are a few too many posts here to merge this into the Gamethread.