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View Full Version : Randy Williams countdown clock


mzh
04-08-2010, 11:45 AM
Before you dismiss me as an overreactor calling for someone's head after two games, listen to my line of thought.

First of all (and I've said this for a while), why is Williams even here in the first place? There were much, much better options in free agency that could have been had on a minor league deal (Joe Beimel, Kiko Calero). IMO we have better options in house (Nunez, perhaps Hudson if he wasn't our starter of the future, even guys like Erick Threets who had a strong spring). He was decent, mediocre for a bit more than a month last year, most of which meant pretty much nothing to us at that point. I honestly don't know what KW and Ozzie see in him, IMO it's beyond even Coop's ability to "fix" a 35 year old with a career ERA of 6. Hell, his ERA is barely below 5 in Triple A for crying out loud.

Point is, there's a reason he was out of the majors for 5 years. I don't know how much longer we can use him.

Lip Man 1
04-08-2010, 11:50 AM
Not saying Williams was the 'be all, end all' but to say Nunez and (or) Threets are better options is ludricrous in my opinion.

I don't know if the Sox really have any "good" options from the left side to back up Thornton.

Lip

DirtySox
04-08-2010, 11:53 AM
Because he is perfectly adequate at getting lefties out, and it's when he is overused when he gets hit. If he is used properly, Randy is fine.

Also, Nunez has looked pretty bad in any of his appearances with the big league club, and continued that trend in spring training. He is seemingly being converted into a starter as well. As far as Hudson goes, I'd rather him continue starting for when he will inevitably replace Garcia when he implodes/goes down. Neither of these guys are lefties either.

mzh
04-08-2010, 11:57 AM
Because he is perfectly adequate at getting lefties out, and it's when he is overused is when he gets hit. If he is used properly, Randy is fine.

Why was this thread even made? He didn't give up a single run in spring training, and continued as such last night.
...He gave up the losing run. No matter what he did this spring, he's never really been an effective ML pitcher other than 15 innings last year. There were much better options for almost no money in free agency, I am questioning why we didn't go with these better options.

DirtySox
04-08-2010, 12:00 PM
...He gave up the losing run. No matter what he did this spring, he's never really been an effective ML pitcher other than 15 innings last year. There were much better options for almost no money in free agency, I am questioning why we didn't go with these better options.

My mistake. I had thought it was Pena.

Either way, I'm fine with him as long as used properly. I think the bullpen is a minor thing to worry about when compared to the offense.

spawn
04-08-2010, 12:13 PM
My mistake. I had thought it was Pena.

Either way, I'm fine with him as long as used properly. I think the bullpen is a minor thing to worry about when compared to the offense.
The winning run was charged to Williams, but Pena gave up the hit that drove in the run.

jdm2662
04-08-2010, 12:15 PM
My mistake. I had thought it was Pena.

Either way, I'm fine with him as long as used properly. I think the bullpen is a minor thing to worry about when compared to the offense.

The run was charged to Williams, but Pena gave up the go ahead hit.

mcfish
04-08-2010, 12:22 PM
My mistake. I had thought it was Pena.

Either way, I'm fine with him as long as used properly. I think the bullpen is a minor thing to worry about when compared to the offense.
You're not wrong. Williams had a scoreless inning, then gave up a 1 out single and was yanked to watch Pena allow that run to score.

Williams may or may not be worthy of a spot on team, but he does not deserve scorn because of what he did last night.

Gavin
04-08-2010, 12:22 PM
randy williams is a poor man's neal cotts and neal cotts and matt thornton are on a completely different level. that being said, you need a second left MRP whether it's neal cotts or randy williams and the sox really don't have anyone better right now

doublem23
04-08-2010, 12:47 PM
I thought Williams was fine last night.

Pena? He sucks.

GoGoCrede
04-08-2010, 12:50 PM
I like Randy just fine. He did all right last night. Pena is the one who worries me, aside from Linebrink. Where are the countdown clocks for those two pitchers?

thomas35forever
04-08-2010, 12:51 PM
Besides the fact that I think Williams is fine, he's the only lefty in the 'pen not named Matt Thornton. That alone should be reason enough.

konerko 14
04-08-2010, 12:51 PM
I agree, Pena sucks

NLaloosh
04-08-2010, 12:54 PM
Yesterday was a perfect example of why the Sox need at least two lefties in the pen. In their division it is absolutely necessary.

During the off season I was hoping for an upgrade over Williams. However, I do think that he's probably adequate.

I'd rather have another stud lefty in the pen but there are other priorities on this team now - and they are on the other side of the ball.

The pitching will give this team a chance to win almost every day. If the opposing starter walks 6 and strikes out 1 but you can only manage two hits the whole game then you've got different problems.

doublem23
04-08-2010, 12:56 PM
I like Randy just fine. He did all right last night. Pena is the one who worries me, aside from Linebrink. Where are the countdown clocks for those two pitchers?

Not until October, 2011 for Linebrink. :whiner:

spawn
04-08-2010, 12:56 PM
Yesterday was a perfect example of why the Sox need at least two lefties in the pen. In their division it is absolutely necessary.

Um...there are two lefties in the pen...unless Matt Thornton all of a sudden decided to become a righty.

Saracen
04-08-2010, 12:59 PM
Williams didn't do fine last night. Every hitter scalded the ball off him. Because most turned into outs doesn't mean every ball wasn't absolutely blistered.

hi im skot
04-08-2010, 12:59 PM
RAAAAAAAANDY!

Honestly, I want to hate the dude, but as others have said, he wasn't exactly the bad guy last night.

DonnieDarko
04-08-2010, 12:59 PM
i like randy just fine. He did all right last night. Pena is the one who worries me, aside from linebrink. Where are the countdown clocks for those two pitchers?

+1

eriqjaffe
04-08-2010, 01:15 PM
I agree, Pena sucksI still don't understand why the Sox kept Pena and non-tendered Carrasco.

Brian26
04-08-2010, 01:19 PM
Look at Pena's numbers from the last 2.5 months of the 2009 season. He actually pitched pretty well. He had a sub-3.00 ERA.

DirtySox
04-08-2010, 01:20 PM
I still don't understand why the Sox kept Pena and non-tendered Carrasco.

Because Pena is a late inning guy with an electric arm (though with some questionable results) and DJ is mop-up/long guy/journeyman? The value of the two are extremely different. We also traded a a top 5 prospect from the system for him. Aside from that, Pena is far from terrible.

KyWhiSoxFan
04-08-2010, 01:37 PM
Before you dismiss me as an overreactor calling for someone's head after two games, listen to my line of thought.

First of all (and I've said this for a while), why is Williams even here in the first place? There were much, much better options in free agency that could have been had on a minor league deal (Joe Beimel, Kiko Calero). IMO we have better options in house (Nunez, perhaps Hudson if he wasn't our starter of the future, even guys like Erick Threets who had a strong spring). He was decent, mediocre for a bit more than a month last year, most of which meant pretty much nothing to us at that point. I honestly don't know what KW and Ozzie see in him, IMO it's beyond even Coop's ability to "fix" a 35 year old with a career ERA of 6. Hell, his ERA is barely below 5 in Triple A for crying out loud.

Point is, there's a reason he was out of the majors for 5 years. I don't know how much longer we can use him.

Let's see ... Williams was in there longer than he should have been (there was no reason to run him out there for another inning and Ozzie earlier in the spring wondered aloud if Williams would be able to pitch more than one inning), but still pitched well, but is responsible for the loss because Pena does not do his job and allows an inherited runner to come around from first to score (like Pena always does; I would rather have seen Santos out there to see what he could do.) Yeah, but it's all Williams' fault.

If you're just going to throw someone under the bus after just one outing, why not say that Peavy blew a 3-run lead and should be sent to the minors because he is to blame? And I guess we can also ignore the fact that the Sox only got 2 hits all night.

In the final analysis, Williams gave up a single to 5 batters faced. He pitched okay and his velocity was good. Let's see how he does for a month or so before we jump to conclusions.

PalehosePlanet
04-08-2010, 01:46 PM
Williams didn't do fine last night. Every hitter scalded the ball off him. Because most turned into outs doesn't mean every ball wasn't absolutely blistered.

That's exactly right; line drives all over the place off of Randy. Then Pena gives up a bloop hit off the end of the bat and he's the bad guy? That's just ridiculous.

tsoxman
04-08-2010, 02:57 PM
That's exactly right; line drives all over the place off of Randy. Then Pena gives up a bloop hit off the end of the bat and he's the bad guy? That's just ridiculous.

And line drives from left handed hitters to boot...He was not at all impressive in my view.

For a moment, forget who was on the mound starting for the Sox last night...if yesterday's game showed anything it was that the offense must come to the rescue in those 5 innnings or less outings that we get from our starter pitchers. We do not have the type of bullpen that will shut opponents down completely, though 4 innings and two runs was not a bad effort.

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 03:00 PM
I really don't see a problem with Williams. He looked good last night.

tstrike2000
04-08-2010, 03:04 PM
...He gave up the losing run. No matter what he did this spring, he's never really been an effective ML pitcher other than 15 innings last year. There were much better options for almost no money in free agency, I am questioning why we didn't go with these better options.

Only time will tell. A bullpen can go from decent to bad in a hurry, may take a while, or not really at all. If Williams can settle into the lefty specialist type of roll, I can see where he can be effective.

mcfish
04-08-2010, 03:55 PM
For a moment, forget who was on the mound starting for the Sox last night...if yesterday's game showed anything it was that the offense must come to the rescue in those 5 innnings or less outings that we get from our starter pitchers. We do not have the type of bullpen that will shut opponents down completely, though 4 innings and two runs was not a bad effort.Last night's game didn't show that at all. Last night's game showcased an offense that couldn't get a hit and a starter that was having a rough time from the first pitch on and couldn't hold a 3-0 lead. After all that, the bullpen gave up 2 runs.

It was a team effort, and it took every player working together to lose that one.

oeo
04-08-2010, 03:58 PM
What we need is our more than 5 innings from the SP. Any bullpen will get exposed when you have to overwork it. Somebody was going to have to pitch two yesterday because I wonder how often they're going to put Putz out there on back-to-back nights this early in the year. What are we going to do, throw all the innings on Thornton? He's good, but he's not Superman, we can't wear him out.

mcfish
04-09-2010, 12:00 AM
What we need is our more than 5 innings from the SP. Any bullpen will get exposed when you have to overwork it. Somebody was going to have to pitch two yesterday because I wonder how often they're going to put Putz out there on back-to-back nights this early in the year. What are we going to do, throw all the innings on Thornton? He's good, but he's not Superman, we can't wear him out.We shouldn't overreact about the starters inability to eat innings until they've all had a chance to start. I'm sure Peavy will be pitching plenty innings per outing soon enough - last night just wasn't his night.

Tragg
04-09-2010, 12:53 AM
Is Williams not adequate as a situational lefty?

TDog
04-09-2010, 01:11 AM
Is Williams not adequate as a situational lefty?

Of course he is. And tonight he wasn't the lefty who blew the lead.

doublem23
04-09-2010, 07:28 AM
When do we get to start the Mark Teahen Countdown Clock?

Only two more years after this one!!!

pudge
04-09-2010, 02:02 PM
When do we get to start the Mark Teahen Countdown Clock?

Only two more years after this one!!!

Sweet lord, I have to watch Mark Teahen for 483 more games? Shoot me now.

sullythered
04-09-2010, 02:48 PM
Sweet lord, I have to watch Mark Teahen for 483 more games? Shoot me now.

Yikes. Teahen is officially "the guy who is going to frustrate the hell out of me this year."

TheOldRoman
04-09-2010, 03:22 PM
Yikes. Teahen is officially "the guy who is going to frustrate the hell out of me this year."Eh, I think Teahen is going to be hitting in the 5 spot by the end of the year. By that I mean he will be hitting well in the 5 spot. He has a lot of talent, but he needed a change of scenery. I can't believe how quickly people have jumped all over him. Yes, he is lost now. However, even at his worst in KC he wasn't this bad. He is in a slump. Let's give him more than three days before we run him out of town.

Jim Shorts
04-09-2010, 04:41 PM
Eh, I think Teahen is going to be hitting in the 5 spot by the end of the year. By that I mean he will be hitting well in the 5 spot. He has a lot of talent, but he needed a change of scenery. I can't believe how quickly people have jumped all over him. Yes, he is lost now. However, even at his worst in KC he wasn't this bad. He is in a slump. Let's give him more than three days before we run him out of town.


I know a few Royals fans that disagree with this ... he's been killing rallys in KC for years **

**except when Buehrle was pitching

mzh
04-12-2010, 09:29 PM
Tired of RW yet?

What I want to know is why the outcome of the game is being put into the hands of Williams and Linebrink when we have much more qualified pitchers available that Ozzie stubbornly refuses to use.

DumpJerry
04-12-2010, 09:37 PM
Tired of RW yet?

What I want to know is why the outcome of the game is being put into the hands of Williams and Linebrink when we have much more qualified pitchers available that Ozzie stubbornly refuses to use.
So far this year, Linebrink is fine.

JohnTucker0814
04-13-2010, 12:18 AM
With all these extra innings games, do you think Ozzie will think about bring up a long guy out of the pen and send Williams down? We need that guy that can go 3-5 innings during these situations... maybe Torres??? Why have a lefty in the pen if he really isn't going to get a guy out?

JB98
04-13-2010, 12:30 AM
Ozzie just needs to understand that you're better off with a quality right-handed reliever on the mound than with a less-than-mediocre left-handed reliever.

Even if there is a left-handed hitter at the plate.

I liked Ozzie so much more his first three years here, when he would manage by gut instinct. Now, he makes a lot of "by the book" moves with the lefty-righty stuff.

mcfish
04-13-2010, 12:42 AM
Ozzie just needs to understand that you're better off with a quality right-handed reliever on the mound than with a less-than-mediocre left-handed reliever.

Even if there is a left-handed hitter at the plate.

I liked Ozzie so much more his first three years here, when he would manage by gut instinct. Now, he makes a lot of "by the book" moves with the lefty-righty stuff.
Agreed, however Ozzie's been here seven years. He's not going to suddenly start understanding and change the way he manages the bullpen. Sadly.

Saracen
04-15-2010, 08:18 PM
Randy Williams needs to go, immediately. He's been nothing short of completely brutal in every appearance.

voodoochile
04-15-2010, 08:25 PM
He's not a long reliever, he's a loogy nothing more nothing less.

GoGoCrede
04-15-2010, 08:33 PM
Whatever happened to Wes Whisler?

JB98
04-15-2010, 08:40 PM
Whatever happened to Wes Whisler?

Still in AAA.

soltrain21
04-15-2010, 08:42 PM
Whatever happened to Wes Whisler?

He became my friend on Facebook.

Boondock Saint
04-15-2010, 08:56 PM
He's not a long reliever, he's a loogy nothing more nothing less.

Except for the fact that he's barely even getting lefties out.

soltrain21
04-15-2010, 08:59 PM
Except for the fact that he's barely even getting lefties out.

How does one barely get someone out?

bunty_doghunter
04-15-2010, 09:06 PM
Whatever happened to Wes Whisler?
And what happened to Whisler's mother?

GoGoCrede
04-15-2010, 09:07 PM
And what happened to Whisler's mother?

:scratch:

Boondock Saint
04-15-2010, 09:14 PM
How does one barely get someone out?

He's barely able to get lefties out. And even then, he isn't doing it consistently.

Tragg
04-15-2010, 09:53 PM
I thought he was a situational lefty.
Guillen's using him as a long reliever. Surely we have better options in AAA. So if he isn't going to be used as a situatioal lefty, why is he on the roster other than he's a veteran?

SI1020
04-15-2010, 09:54 PM
:scratch: Maybe he meant his mother.

http://www.mr-whistlers-art.info/art/paintings/portraits/mother.shtml

Rdy2PlayBall
04-15-2010, 10:00 PM
I like him. I'm not letting a bases loaded walk make me think hes terrible. He's actually been pitching pretty good. He's new to the MLB... he'll get used to pressure filled situations sooner or later. I hope he pans out... it a much cheaper option then trying to get another arm.

Boondock Saint
04-15-2010, 10:04 PM
I like him. I'm not letting a bases loaded walk make me think hes terrible. He's actually been pitching pretty good. He's new to the MLB... he'll get used to pressure filled situations sooner or later. I hope he pans out... it a much cheaper option then trying to get another arm.

I'd say that six years isn't new to MLB.

mzh
04-15-2010, 10:04 PM
I like him. I'm not letting a bases loaded walk make me think hes terrible. He's actually been pitching pretty good. He's new to the MLB... he'll get used to pressure filled situations sooner or later. I hope he pans out... it a much cheaper option then trying to get another arm.
No, he is not new to the MLB.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willira01.shtml

First came up in 2004, was in the minors for 3 years after 05 (had a 4.48 ERA in AAA), finally got his shot with the Sox last year. He seems to be making the most of it, what with all these clutch outs.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-15-2010, 10:08 PM
I'd say that six years isn't new to MLB.6 years? More like 3... and in them he pitched 4.2, 26.1 and 17.2 innings.... Nice try. He's hardly had any experience up here in pressure filled situations.

"New" was probably a weird choice of words... more like lack of experience in the MLB.

Boondock Saint
04-15-2010, 10:17 PM
6 years? More like 3... and in them he pitched 4.2, 26.1 and 17.2 innings.... Nice try. He's hardly had any experience up here in pressure filled situations.

"New" was probably a weird choice of words... more like lack of experience in the MLB.

He has a "lack of experience in MLB" because he's "a god-awful pitcher", and he "can't keep runs from scoring". He's a relief pitcher with a career ERA of 5.82. Cause and effect.

voodoochile
04-15-2010, 10:19 PM
How does one barely get someone out?

Well see you get them out, but just barely.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-15-2010, 10:23 PM
He has a "lack of experience in MLB" because he's "a god-awful pitcher", and he "can't keep runs from scoring". He's a relief pitcher with a career ERA of 5.82. Cause and effect.Hey, so far his ERA is the 2.00s.... so I like him. He's not great, but he hasn't really given me a reason to hate him. I hope he pans out, that's all I said.

Maybe Coop actually fixed him, you never know. :shrug:
Also, if liking Williams for his few innings of work this season makes it okay, then I should also say I hate Peavy this year... Which would be dumb. I'm a mixed bag of feelings... just mostly positive ones, so I like the guy.

Boondock Saint
04-15-2010, 10:29 PM
Hey, so far his ERA is the 2.00s.... so I like him. He's not great, but he hasn't really given me a reason to hate him. I hope he pans out, that's all I said.

Maybe Coop actually fixed him, you never know. :shrug:
Also, if liking Williams for his few innings of work this season makes it okay, then I should also say I hate Peavy this year... Which would be dumb. I'm a mixed bag of feelings... just mostly positive ones, so I like the guy.

You can be a bad pitcher with a good ERA. Just look at Scott Linebrink's numbers from the last few years.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-15-2010, 10:36 PM
You can be a bad pitcher with a good ERA. Just look at Scott Linebrink's numbers from the last few years.I know what you mean... but Linebrink was a bad example... He hasn't really had a good ERA at all. Maybe passable for a 5th stater, but bad for a bullpen guy for sure. 4.66ERA coming out of the bullpen is barf worthy. We'll see what happens, I just hope he throws well. That's better for us than making a countdown on when he's gone.

mzh
04-16-2010, 10:22 AM
I know what you mean... but Linebrink was a bad example... He hasn't really had a good ERA at all. Maybe passable for a 5th stater, but bad for a bullpen guy for sure. 4.66ERA coming out of the bullpen is barf worthy. We'll see what happens, I just hope he throws well. That's better for us than making a countdown on when he's gone.
Then why do you like Williams so much?:scratch: The man has a 5.60 career ERA, even in Triple A it's 4.48, and 312 innings is no small sample size.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-16-2010, 09:59 PM
Then why do you like Williams so much?:scratch: The man has a 5.60 career ERA, even in Triple A it's 4.48, and 312 innings is no small sample size.I never said I like him "so much" or anything like that. I have no idea why you are even saying this. I pretty much have been saying I like what hes doing so far and hope it pans out. I have NO IDEA why that is such a big deal. I lack the ability to just hate players when they aren't really doing that bad.

I think it's funny so many people want to rush to get this guy out.... so the Sox can just rush Hudson's progress in the minors. It's all a conspiracy.

soxlady8
04-18-2010, 03:27 PM
He had a pretty good outing today with his appearance --
His ERA is 2.08 --
that is pretty darn good if you ask me --
Hopefully he and the rest of the pen can continue to be fabulous , just waiting for the starting pitching to catch up and also the bats !

sox1970
04-18-2010, 03:36 PM
He had a pretty good outing today with his appearance --
His ERA is 2.08 --
that is pretty darn good if you ask me --
Hopefully he and the rest of the pen can continue to be fabulous , just waiting for the starting pitching to catch up and also the bats !

ERAs for relievers can be misleading especially when they inherit runners that score. But yes, nice outing today in a relatively low pressure situation.