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View Full Version : Official 'Two Hits Ain't Gonna Cut It' 4/7 SOX vs. CLE Postgame Thread


soxinem1
04-07-2010, 10:21 PM
Let the ripping begin......

Frater Perdurabo
04-07-2010, 10:21 PM
Walkerball!

KnightSox
04-07-2010, 10:22 PM
Forget this one and get 'em tomorrow.

soltrain21
04-07-2010, 10:22 PM
Tough game. Peavy didn't seem to have a feel for anything and the few hard hit balls were right people.

Thome_Fan
04-07-2010, 10:22 PM
Second game of the season and ****ty weather. Scrap it and try again tomorrow.

Boondock Saint
04-07-2010, 10:22 PM
They swung when Carmona was throwing balls, and staring when he was throwing strikes. No excuse for the offense tonight.

Also, why in the hell did Ozzie put Bobby in? That just makes no sense.

Viva Medias B's
04-07-2010, 10:23 PM
Let's get 'em tomorrow.

BTW, it'll be fun to see how many stupid "Fire Walker!" calls Ranger gets.

Baron
04-07-2010, 10:23 PM
Bobby looked.......bad....

cheezheadsoxfan
04-07-2010, 10:23 PM
One game, bad night, long season. Tho Bobby is worrying me more and more.

twinsuck
04-07-2010, 10:23 PM
Let's take the series tomorrow...

veeter
04-07-2010, 10:24 PM
Just a horrible pace to this one. Forget about it, and take the series tomorrow.

DaveFeelsRight
04-07-2010, 10:24 PM
the season is over already. woe is me.

Woofer
04-07-2010, 10:25 PM
It's hard to win a game on two hits.

october23sp
04-07-2010, 10:25 PM
Peavy, offense, Bobby.

JB98
04-07-2010, 10:26 PM
Tony Pena is terrible. He's still yet to prove to me he can get key outs.

twinsuck
04-07-2010, 10:27 PM
Tony Pena is terrible. He's still yet to prove to me he can get key outs.
He brings the pain.

Dibbs
04-07-2010, 10:27 PM
What can you do? There is going to be a lot of games like this with the offense we have. Try to win the series tomorrow.

I am also thankful we got rid of the big boppers. It's nice to see Ozzieball.

oeo
04-07-2010, 10:27 PM
I mark this one down as tough luck, on both sides of the ball. The Indians piled up on cheap hits against Peavy and the Sox had at least 4 balls that were scolded, but just right at the defenders (2 by Rios and 2 by Beckham). A couple more breaks go our way and it's a W. Can't win them all, go get 'em tomorrow.

Frater Perdurabo
04-07-2010, 10:27 PM
If Ozzie persists in his stubborn "by the book" DH platoon, thereby privileging the left-handed, and inferior, Kotsay over the superior and right-handed Jones, it will:

1. Support the theory that Ozzie's actually didn't have anything personal against Brian Anderson;

2. Support the theory that Ozzie is an idiot and loves bad left-handed hackers.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-07-2010, 10:28 PM
Peavy, offense, Bobby.Peavy wasn't BAD, the other two were. Peavy just didn't set a good pace.

tsoxman
04-07-2010, 10:30 PM
100 pitches in the fifth inning will not work with this bullpen

october23sp
04-07-2010, 10:30 PM
Here's to hoping they wear the actual home uniforms tommorow!:gulp:

Actually, that's what we should be most worried about, who told the Sox that they have to wear black?

VMSNS
04-07-2010, 10:30 PM
Should have jumped on Carmona in the early innings. Offense was terrible, but we also caught a lot of bad breaks (balls hit right at people). Some nice defense by Rios, Teahen, and TCM.

Peavy didn't quite have it tonight, but I don't think he was as bad as some people think. Jenks was lousy with bad control.

Oh, and the home plate umpire was horrible. He was incredibly inconsistent on that outside corner.

Get 'em tomorrow, Gavin.

soxinem1
04-07-2010, 10:30 PM
If Ozzie persists in his stubborn "by the book" DH platoon, thereby privileging the left-handed, and inferior, Kotsay over the superior and right-handed Jones, it will:

1. Support the theory that Ozzie's actually didn't have anything personal against Brian Anderson;

2. Support the theory that Ozzie is an idiot and loves bad left-handed hackers.

No panic mode here, but I think Jones should be DH'ing until he proves he can't do it. The lefty/righty **** is not going to cut it.

soxnut1018
04-07-2010, 10:31 PM
100 pitches in the fifth inning will not work with this bullpen

Or any other for that matter.

oeo
04-07-2010, 10:32 PM
Should have jumped on Carmona in the early innings.

He wasn't throwing strikes in the early innings. Then he just turned it around after the Indians tied it up and looked really good.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-07-2010, 10:32 PM
In the seventh with AJ on first, and a lefty on the hill with nobody out and Teahen up - Ozzie should have either hit for Teahen or sacrificed (or both if you want to bring up Vizquel to bunt). What's the point of having a so called flexible roster if you're not going to use it?

Noneck
04-07-2010, 10:32 PM
Jenks is bad at holding runners and so is most of the pen. Are they getting instruction on this or is the instruction just ignored? This has been going on for awhile, I guess it will never change.

DrCrawdad
04-07-2010, 10:32 PM
* Anemic hitting
* Bad bullpen
* Bad baserunning (yes, that's you AJ)

That's a White Sox loss.

oeo
04-07-2010, 10:33 PM
100 pitches in the fifth inning will not work with this bullpen

40 of them in the fourth in which they hit zero balls hard and ended up with four hits and three runs. That HBP with a 1-2 count, which shouldn't have been since Redmond leaned into it (seriously, if this is a rule, it needs to be called), didn't help either. It was a fluke inning.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-07-2010, 10:33 PM
2. Support the theory that Ozzie is an idiot and loves bad left-handed hackers.

He's still dreaming of Darren Erstad

MarkZ35
04-07-2010, 10:33 PM
They'll be days like this. Get em tommorrow. But honestly how is Kotsay batting 5th? I hope he eventually proves me worng.

guillen4life13
04-07-2010, 10:34 PM
Eh... come back and get 'em tomorrow. Pitching was kind of disappointing today, but hopefully next time out, Peavy gets back on track. Jenks got out of the jam with minimal damage, but that was a really rough inning. Williams+Pena... just not too great.

It looks like Konerko is in a bit of a groove. Rios and Beckham have been having good at bats. Quentin's got the pop up bug.

Lots of players have been showing a good eye, as everyone except Pierzynski and Ramirez walked tonight.

Just hope that this was just a bad game, and they should bounce back tomorrow.

Carmona was effectively wild, but their bullpen was pretty lights out. Cleveland has some damn good defense. Asdrubal Cabrera is one hell of a defensive shortstop.

konerko 14
04-07-2010, 10:39 PM
Konerko is the only one that looked good to day

twinsuck
04-07-2010, 10:41 PM
40 of them in the fourth in which they hit zero balls hard and ended up with four hits and three runs. That HBP with a 1-2 count, which shouldn't have been since Redmond leaned into it (seriously, if this is a rule, it needs to be called), didn't help either. It was a fluke inning.
I don't think he really went into it on purpose. You would be mad if they called that a SOX batter leaned into that pitch in the exact same way. You can't call that.

russ99
04-07-2010, 10:44 PM
What can you do? There is going to be a lot of games like this with the offense we have. Try to win the series tomorrow.

I am also thankful we got rid of the big boppers. It's nice to see Ozzieball.

Doubtful. This weekend it will warm up again and so will the bats. Let's hope they can scratch out some more hits and stay out of the DP tomorrow.

Lip Man 1
04-07-2010, 10:44 PM
Eight hits in the first two games combined is something to note, simply not a very good night.

Thornton and Putz can't pitch every day...someone else is going to have to get the job done too.

Don't understand what Jenks was doing in a game in a non save situation, obviously Ozzie was trying to get him some work.

It would be very disappointing to lose the first series of the year at home to a garbage club. They need to pick it up on Thursday.

Lip

jabrch
04-07-2010, 10:44 PM
Guess we are shooting for 161 - 1 now...

kruzer31
04-07-2010, 10:45 PM
This is one of those games that Thome could be the difference with his power. With Kotsay, you don't even have that chance.

JEFF

Boondock Saint
04-07-2010, 10:45 PM
They'll be days like this. Get em tommorrow. But honestly how is Kotsay batting 5th? I hope he eventually proves me worng.

It's hard to complain about who is batting fifth when there's six other guys that didn't get hits today, either. You can talk about people hitting balls right at guys, but the Indians had a few of those, too.

jabrch
04-07-2010, 10:46 PM
Don't understand what Jenks was doing in a game in a non save situation, obviously Ozzie was trying to get him some work.

Lip

Looks like you DO understand...and we all know Bobby's history in non-save situations. But Guillen wanted to get him some work. Didn't work out.

southsideirish71
04-07-2010, 10:47 PM
They'll be days like this. Get em tommorrow. But honestly how is Kotsay batting 5th? I hope he eventually proves me worng.

Its an odd platoon. Pods had better numbers including OPS against righties last year than Kotsay. I wouldn't dream of hitting Pods in the 5th spot, let alone hit Kotsay there. This platoon looks to be built based only on their primary hand preference over any real statistics or history.

Boondock Saint
04-07-2010, 10:48 PM
Looks like you DO understand...and we all know Bobby's history in non-save situations. But Guillen wanted to get him some work. Didn't work out.

There's better times to get him work than a one run game in the ninth, when you know that your closer struggles in non-save situations, and your offense is struggling.

JB98
04-07-2010, 10:49 PM
Kotsay is probably going to be the whipping boy around here. Nevermind that there are three guys in the lineup who look even worse than Kotsay right now.

Pear-Zin-Ski
04-07-2010, 10:49 PM
Wonder if the weather had anything to do with it. We score six runs on a wonderful 75 degree afternoon and then come up REAL short on a dreary 40 degreeish night.

Take the series tomorrow boys!

Boondock Saint
04-07-2010, 10:50 PM
Wonder if the weather had anything to do with it. We score six runs on a wonderful 75 degree afternoon and then come up REAL short on a dreary 40 degreeish night.

Take the series tomorrow boys!

An inferior offensive team (by almost all accounts) got ten hits in that same weather.

Gavin
04-07-2010, 10:50 PM
The pitching wasn't that bad... it was 5 runs and the Tribe only scored because an unlucky combination of Juan Pierre being just short followed by a bunch of hard hit singles including a HBP that really bailed out Cleveland's worst hitter.

As for the Sox hitting, as much as I want to give them credit for hitting the ball hard but right at the defenders... well, tough luck... hit it where they ain't. I don't really understand AJ's give-up baserunning that led to a DP. The offense at best was unlucky and at worst sloppy.

Frontman
04-07-2010, 10:51 PM
Tough game. Peavy didn't seem to have a feel for anything and the few hard hit balls were right people.

Neither starter looked good tonight. Dust 'em off and get 'em tomorrow.

russ99
04-07-2010, 10:51 PM
This is one of those games that Thome could be the difference with his power. With Kotsay, you don't even have that chance.

JEFF

Paul cranked one his first at bat and it died at the track. The ball wasn't carrying today. Remember that Thome gave us mostly K's and groundouts with those homers last year. Had we had Thome and the same boxscore/pitching lines we'd still have still lost.

SoxGirl4Life
04-07-2010, 10:55 PM
For as chilly as it was out there, I could have used a few more hits to generate some more heat in the crowd.

But I had fun anyway! Get that first loss out of the way :tongue:

jabrch
04-07-2010, 10:56 PM
Wonder if the weather had anything to do with it. We score six runs on a wonderful 75 degree afternoon and then come up REAL short on a dreary 40 degreeish night.

Take the series tomorrow boys!

Same weather for the Tribe...we just stunk.

MarkZ35
04-07-2010, 11:00 PM
It's hard to complain about who is batting fifth when there's six other guys that didn't get hits today, either. You can talk about people hitting balls right at guys, but the Indians had a few of those, too.
I'm not talking about today or even Monday. In his "prime" he put up the numbers of a typical 7 or 8 hitter in a decent AL lineup. I realize the Sox dont have many options at this point but he's going to be a big hole in the line up if he is forced to bat in the 5 spot.

Boondock Saint
04-07-2010, 11:01 PM
Another thing I noticed: Alexei was 0-for-3 with a strikeout, and he only saw a total of eight pitches. I can't even figure out a word to describe how bad that is.

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-07-2010, 11:02 PM
People say we hit balls right at people and thats why we lost...well yes thats how you lose. I mean fly-outs and ground-outs dont help you.

Taliesinrk
04-07-2010, 11:02 PM
I don't think he really went into it on purpose. You would be mad if they called that a SOX batter leaned into that pitch in the exact same way. You can't call that.

You definitely do not call that if you're the umpire. That said, I'd like you to pass whatever you're smoking if you think he didn't try to lean in on a 1-2 count. AND, if for some reason after watching it again you still feel the play wasn't due to good baseball IQ on Mr. Redmond's part, he took it upon himself to do prove that it wasn't a one-time fluke - he tried the exact same thing in his last AB.

He knew he was overmatched in the 4th and in that situation did everything right. The problem wasn't that he played the way he did, it was that the Sox pitchers (from what I saw - missed the middle part of the game) chose not to respond. A very easy way to prevent Redmond from doing what he did (not once, but TWICE!!), is to make certain that he remembers what it feels like to actually be hit by a pitch - not grazed on the elbow. Most guys will certainly think twice about trying that if you put one square in their ribs... or as some pitchers have chosen in the past, high and tight, so that they may not feel the pain, but highly reconsider the move.

SephClone89
04-07-2010, 11:02 PM
Caller on Rongey's show just suggested we trade Jenks to the Twins for Thome.

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-07-2010, 11:04 PM
I'm not talking about today or even Monday. In his "prime" he put up the numbers of a typical 7 or 8 hitter in a decent AL lineup. I realize the Sox dont have many options at this point but he's going to be a big hole in the line up if he is forced to bat in the 5 spot.

Good point!

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-07-2010, 11:05 PM
Caller on Rongey's show just suggested we trade Jenks to the Twins for Thome.

lol Thornton=closer

SoxGirl4Life
04-07-2010, 11:06 PM
As I sat there tonight, I realized, I really don't look forward to seeing anyone in the lineup past Paulie. There's a long way from 4 to 9.

Noneck
04-07-2010, 11:06 PM
Kotsay not hitting is not really a major issue. If Jones is similar to the Jones of yore , he can hit righties and leftys. Now if Jones is what he was the past couple years, danger ahead.

Boondock Saint
04-07-2010, 11:07 PM
Caller on Rongey's show just suggested we trade Jenks to the Twins for Thome.

*sigh*

Poor Ranger.

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-07-2010, 11:09 PM
*sigh*

Poor Ranger.

Yeah I usually feel bad for him.

Konerko05
04-07-2010, 11:14 PM
Today was just a miserable, frustrating game.

I will say this team can not go all year with Kotsay, Pierre, and Teahen in the lineup at the same time on a regular basis. I could live with two of them in the lineup if one of them was replaced with a big time bat. It would only make sense for that bat to be at DH.

It's going to be hard to watch Pierre ground out weakly to 2B all season.

GoGoCrede
04-07-2010, 11:26 PM
Just got home! SoxGirl4Life and I braved it out there in the elements, but she had the right idea and left early. My stupid ass just cannot leave a game that's not a laugher. Scoreboard said it was 38 degrees, but it felt more like 30. A far cry from Monday, that's for damn sure.

There were some brilliant defensive plays - my jaw dropped open several times. Paulie's on fire. And a foul ball dropped right into a guy's beer cup, splashing it everywhere.

Not much to say about this one. Two hits is not going to cut it; this might have been winnable except for that. I'm sure Peavy will do better next time.

Show 'em how it's done tomorrow, #34.

GoGoCrede
04-07-2010, 11:39 PM
Oh, and from where I was sitting, it really looked like Pierre caught that ball. For those of you tuned in on TV - how close was it? Looked like a b.s. call to me. I hated the umps tonight.

DirtySox
04-07-2010, 11:39 PM
Oh, and from where I was sitting, it really looked like Pierre caught that ball. For those of you tuned in on TV - how close was it? Looked like a b.s. call to me. I hated the umps tonight.

He trapped it.

SephClone89
04-07-2010, 11:40 PM
He trapped it.

Yep. No doubter.

DSpivack
04-07-2010, 11:41 PM
Oh, and from where I was sitting, it really looked like Pierre caught that ball. For those of you tuned in on TV - how close was it? Looked like a b.s. call to me. I hated the umps tonight.

Was right in front of me as I was down the 3B line. It was close, but a trap.

And I try to never leave a game early, never know what will happen.

Slappy
04-07-2010, 11:45 PM
Bah.

Had to be the weather. Right?? :)

Pierre has a good eye, but he needs to make some better contact.

I feel less confident in Alexei's bat every day it seems like.

I thought that Rios should have layed out for that ball that he half way slid/dove for and passed him, although the runner was still held to a single I think.

Let's take the series tomorrow.

Nellie_Fox
04-07-2010, 11:50 PM
Kotsay is probably going to be the whipping boy around here. There is someone who is the designated whipping boy nearly every year around here. He's probably the one.

oeo
04-07-2010, 11:58 PM
I don't think he really went into it on purpose. You would be mad if they called that a SOX batter leaned into that pitch in the exact same way. You can't call that.

If it's a rule, you call it, otherwise, scrap it. Crede had it called on him a few years ago and that is seriously the only time I've ever seen it called. The batters already have an advantage wearing all that armor and they also don't have to even attempt to get out of the way and sometimes even lean into the pitch? It's bull****.

And what gives you the idea he didn't do it on purpose? He was down in the count 1-2, had an opportunity to get out of the way and instead lowered his elbow into the pitch. He absolutely put the elbow down on purpose, guys do it all the time. It's the "smart play" because the umpires choose not to enforce the rule.

oeo
04-08-2010, 12:07 AM
Kotsay is probably going to be the whipping boy around here. Nevermind that there are three guys in the lineup who look even worse than Kotsay right now.

Probably? I'm pretty sure he already is.

And only three? Pierre, Quentin, AJ, Teahen, and Alexei all look worse, IMO. I know Quentin had the double on Monday, but he looked like **** tonight. Maybe he just wasn't comfortable with Carmona, though.

On the bright side, Beckham, Paulie, and Rios look great, even though Beckham and Rios don't have much to show for it yet. At least this isn't a situation like a few years ago when we weren't getting anything from anybody.

KMcMahon817
04-08-2010, 12:21 AM
Kotsay is probably going to be the whipping boy around here. Nevermind that there are three guys in the lineup who look even worse than Kotsay right now.

If by that you mean Alexei, you are correct. Dear God he has looked awful in the first two games. I know, I know, he starts off slow, but jeez.

BadBobbyJenks
04-08-2010, 12:35 AM
Well I was too drunk to be too upset by the outcome, but it was really an eye opener to look up at the scoreboard and see two hits in the 9th.

Kotsay getting one more potential at bat than Rios, AJ, Alexei, whoever is just dumb. No other way to put it.

pudge
04-08-2010, 12:35 AM
As I sat there tonight, I realized, I really don't look forward to seeing anyone in the lineup past Paulie. There's a long way from 4 to 9.

That is exactly what I have felt after two games. Man, it gets ugly FAST after Paulie.

Eight freakin' hits in the first two games. Yeah, yeah it's only two games, that's the WSI forums mantra, but I am just so tired of watching an offense that has zero .300 hitters. Not saying we won't have one this year, probably Beckham, but the fact remains watching a lineup that stinks or only hits homers year after year after year after.... argh...

LoveYourSuit
04-08-2010, 12:36 AM
Yeah I usually feel bad for him.



Why?

Is he not getting paid to host a talk show?

I would kill for that job.

WhiteSox5187
04-08-2010, 12:50 AM
Bah.

Had to be the weather. Right?? :)

Pierre has a good eye, but he needs to make some better contact.

I feel less confident in Alexei's bat every day it seems like.

I thought that Rios should have layed out for that ball that he half way slid/dove for and passed him, although the runner was still held to a single I think.

Let's take the series tomorrow.

Alexei ALWAYS looks lost in April and early May. I don't know why that is, it might be the weather or whatever, but I don't think I'll worry until he starts looking confused until late May.

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 01:12 AM
I don't blame Ozzie for trying to get Bobby some work in. Bobby is still working on that calf and it showed. He was working from the wind-up, which is very rare for a relief pitcher. Even with the bases empty most relievers work exclusively from the stretch. I'd imagine throwing from the wind-up had to make his mechanics difficult. Bobby will be fine once he's 100%. He's the healthiest and most fit that we've ever see, and we should expect a great year from him.

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 01:15 AM
There is someone who is the designated whipping boy nearly every year around here. He's probably the one.

This board is improving. I remember when some geniuses around here made Paulie their whipping boy.

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 01:18 AM
If by that you mean Alexei, you are correct. Dear God he has looked awful in the first two games. I know, I know, he starts off slow, but jeez.

Alexei will probably suck for a while bat around .200 for the month of April. He'll probably be bad the first few weeks of May. He'll turn it on at some point and go on a few monster streaks this summer. When the season ends October 3rd, he'll end up with an average of about .280 give or take 5 or a 10 points. Don't ask me why he does it this way, but in the end I'll take those averaged results when he has those monster months in the summer.

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 01:20 AM
Why?

Is he not getting paid to host a talk show?

I would kill for that job.

You try to answer those phone calls and keep calm without calling the morons who call in morons. I do feel sorry for Ranger. He pretty much is like the guy on the other end of the line of the suicide phones they have on the Golden Gate Bridge. You get psychos calling you who are on the ledge and he has to talk them off.

The guy saying trade Jenks to Minny for Thome made me cry with laughter. let's see the Twins are missing two things, a solid rotation and a closer so let's give them a closer. :rolleyes: That will really help us win the division.

Craig Grebeck
04-08-2010, 01:31 AM
100 pitches in the fifth inning will not work with this bullpen
Won't work with many. Pitchers are often in the bullpen because they aren't good enough to start. Ours is fine, and will be fine if Peavy does his job.

kittle42
04-08-2010, 01:43 AM
There is nothing worse than baseball fans who call into postgame shows the first few weeks of a season. Christ, don't you ****ers watch the same sport year in and year out? You can't figure out one ****ing thing about trends, the 162-game pace, etc. in a ****ing lifetime of watching THE SAME GODDAMN SPORT?

Go **** yourselves.

BainesHOF
04-08-2010, 02:15 AM
Ozzie managed poorly in my opinion. I don't think you bring in Pena with one out in the seventh of a tied game. Tuesday was an off day. Putz, Thornton and Jenks were rested and ready.

Teahen should have sacrificed. He's the No. 8 hitter in a suspect lineup. Bunt!

Kotsay is not a No. 5 hitter. Rios and possibly Jones are the only real options there.

I was at the game. Peavy had an animated discussion with Ozzie in the dugout after Ozzie told him he was done after the fifth. He threw 106 pitches so I think that was the obvious move at this point in the season. I couldn't tell if the exchange was contentious or heated, but it was animated, particularly on Peavy's part. Of course, he's a fierce competitor who was yelling at himself on the mound quite a bit during the game so the discussion might have just been Peavy being his usual fired-up self. Maybe something was up, though. Perhaps Peavy was aggravated with the home plate umpire.

DonnieDarko
04-08-2010, 02:23 AM
Ozzie managed poorly in my opinion. I don't think you bring in Pena with one out in the seventh of a tied game. Tuesday was an off day. Putz, Thornton and Jenks were rested and ready.

Teahen should have sacrificed. He's the No. 8 hitter in a suspect lineup. Bunt!

Kotsay is not a No. 5 hitter. Rios and possibly Jones are the only real options there.

I was at the game. Peavy had an animated discussion with Ozzie in the dugout after Ozzie told him he was done after the fifth. He threw 106 pitches so I think that was the obvious move at this point in the season. I couldn't tell if the exchange was contentious or heated, but it was animated, particularly on Peavy's part. Of course, he's a fierce competitor who was yelling at himself on the mound quite a bit during the game so the discussion might have just been Peavy being his usual fired-up self. Maybe something was up, though. Perhaps Peavy was aggravated with the home plate umpire.

I would be too, if I were in Peavy's shoes. Man, the balls and strikes calling was off tonight, to say the least.

It's Dankerific
04-08-2010, 02:40 AM
At least games in April count less than games in September.

masloan
04-08-2010, 04:24 AM
Tony Pena is terrible. He's still yet to prove to me he can get key outs.

While I am not a huge Tony Pena fan, I did not think the pitch he gave up the hit on was that bad.

doublem23
04-08-2010, 05:40 AM
Every team's going to have some ****ty games over the course of the season. Just sucks that it had to be Jake's regular season debut. Thankfully we only have to dwell on this one for the day. Let's get that series win tomorrow!

SBSoxFan
04-08-2010, 05:58 AM
Every team's going to have some ****ty games over the course of the season. Just sucks that it had to be Jake's regular season debut. Thankfully we only have to dwell on this one for the day. Let's get that series win tomorrow!

It was a ****ty game, and, yet, the Sox had a chance to win it. I agree with most everything everyone else has said. I thought the strike zone was biased towards Cleveland on both offense and defense. I missed the fateful top of the 4th. The Sox may have only 8 hits in the first 2 games, but they have been getting on base a lot. A hit from any of the 8, 9, or 1 guys would help though!

Frontman
04-08-2010, 06:15 AM
Why?

Is he not getting paid to host a talk show?

I would kill for that job.

Just because he gets paid to host a talk show doesn't mean you can't feel for the guy when having to talk to the baseball moronic. Jenks for Thome indeed. MORON CALLER!!!!!

Sox pitching didn't get it done. And the batters didn't take advantage of Carmona when he was struggling.

Domeshot17
04-08-2010, 07:30 AM
Was at the game, it was disappointing. Kotsay is going to be this years Mackowiak. A Guy who has EXTREME VALUE as a bench player and pinch hitter who will just have that value shredded and ruined by playing far too much. Carlos looks really bad right now, I didn't see because of work but heard parts on the radio, last night he looked like he was trying to hit everything 650 feet.

From the Field view, what in the hell was Teahen doing with the bases loaded. Ball hit that hard, you get the out at home, or you turn 2. You DON'T run at the runner. He also was really really late covering 3rd on the 9th inning steal. AJ with a dumb base running move by running into that DP. Just hit the deck, make them come get you or throw it to turn it.

Was freezing watching it, tough night to pitch. Santos looked DISGUSTING warming up, kid could be good. Also, Linebrink was playing with a few different change ups and looked solid in his pen session.

fun moment, Don Lucy couldn't stop smiling when he was in the bullpen. Just looked thrilled to be there.

asindc
04-08-2010, 07:51 AM
Frustrating game to watch, mainly because Carmona could have been had, even though he figured out his slider after the 3rd inning. Peavy just did not find the feel last night. Made two very bad pitches (hitting Redmond, missing on Sizemore), but also did not dominate any one batter.

Let's get today's game and move on to the Twinkees.

guillen4life13
04-08-2010, 08:25 AM
Every team's going to have some ****ty games over the course of the season. Just sucks that it had to be Jake's regular season debut. Thankfully we only have to dwell on this one for the day. Let's get that series win tomorrow!

I gotta say, this is the most refreshing thing I've seen you post in a long, long time. At least from my perspective, but we've clashed heads quite a bit. :gulp:

bigdommer
04-08-2010, 08:31 AM
From the Field view, what in the hell was Teahen doing with the bases loaded. Ball hit that hard, you get the out at home, or you turn 2. You DON'T run at the runner. He also was really really late covering 3rd on the 9th inning steal.

Real time, I agreed with you on both points. However, after seeing replays of both, neither were Teahan's fault. Choo got a huge walking lead and jump and AJ would not have thrown it if Teahan was sitting on the bag with a brick wall blocking the slide.

The ground ball was a tough one. Tie game, maybe you take a shot and throw home. However, the ball was not hit very hard and all of his momentum was to his left, and slightly away from home plate. He would have had to stop his momentum, do 180 degree turn, reach back to get some mustard on the throw, plus add in the fact that Choo is an excellent baserunner with good speed. I think his chances of throwing Choo out are less than 5%.

beasly213
04-08-2010, 08:45 AM
Was at the game, it was disappointing. Kotsay is going to be this years Mackowiak. A Guy who has EXTREME VALUE as a bench player and pinch hitter who will just have that value shredded and ruined by playing far too much. Carlos looks really bad right now, I didn't see because of work but heard parts on the radio, last night he looked like he was trying to hit everything 650 feet.

From the Field view, what in the hell was Teahen doing with the bases loaded. Ball hit that hard, you get the out at home, or you turn 2. You DON'T run at the runner. He also was really really late covering 3rd on the 9th inning steal. AJ with a dumb base running move by running into that DP. Just hit the deck, make them come get you or throw it to turn it.

Was freezing watching it, tough night to pitch. Santos looked DISGUSTING warming up, kid could be good. Also, Linebrink was playing with a few different change ups and looked solid in his pen session.

fun moment, Don Lucy couldn't stop smiling when he was in the bullpen. Just looked thrilled to be there.


I don't recall a time where Carlos was not trying to hit it 600 feet. He'll be fine. He had a nice double on opening day.
The whole team looked bad at the plate last night. No excuses just a bad game.

Jerko
04-08-2010, 08:46 AM
This was a Jerko "triumvirate of terror" game.

1. give up runs directly after we score.
2. winning run scored when a lefty started it off with a hit against a lefty and a righty got the game winning hit against a righty, AKA, the dreaded LRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLR 7th inning shuffle.
3. Jenks pitching in non-save situations. The night would have really been capped off if the Sox would have scored a run in the 9th (and yes I realize Ozzie wanted to get him work).

**** game, but you're gonna get those every now and then.

Jim Shorts
04-08-2010, 08:52 AM
Ozzie managed poorly in my opinion. I don't think you bring in Pena with one out in the seventh of a tied game. Tuesday was an off day. Putz, Thornton and Jenks were rested and ready.

Teahen should have sacrificed. He's the No. 8 hitter in a suspect lineup. Bunt!

Kotsay is not a No. 5 hitter. Rios and possibly Jones are the only real options there.

I was at the game. Peavy had an animated discussion with Ozzie in the dugout after Ozzie told him he was done after the fifth. He threw 106 pitches so I think that was the obvious move at this point in the season. I couldn't tell if the exchange was contentious or heated, but it was animated, particularly on Peavy's part. Of course, he's a fierce competitor who was yelling at himself on the mound quite a bit during the game so the discussion might have just been Peavy being his usual fired-up self. Maybe something was up, though. Perhaps Peavy was aggravated with the home plate umpire.


Peavy wanted to throw another inning and Ozzie told him sure, during your next start. Competitor simply didn't want to come out of the game and the manager making a decision that is best for the season.

It was a non-issue. Let's not create one, we seem to have enough of those

DickAllen72
04-08-2010, 09:05 AM
There is someone who is the designated whipping boy nearly every year around here. He's probably the one.
The sad part is, it's usually not the "whipping boy's" fault, it's the position he's forced into.

Rob Mackowiak was a great bench guy to have on a team, a decent bat with some pop, who played a passable LF, RF and could play a little 3B, 2B and even 1B in a pinch. he was a horrible defensive CFer. So where does Ozzie play him a significant portion of his time with the Sox?

Dewayne Wise was a AAAA talent with a great attitude who was OK to have as a 25th man on a major league roster while one of your regular 25 men was on the DL. So Ozzie makes him the opening day starter and leadoff man.

This year it's Kotsay. I like Kotsay. He's a great guy to have on the bench. He's a pretty good LH pinch hitter, can back up 1B pretty well and can still be used to back up LF and RF and even probably CF in a pinch. So what does Ozzie do? Starts him at DH batting fifth in the order.

In all three cases above, the frustration is caused by the way Ozzie misused the players and the booing and "whipping" of them is misdirected. When D Wise was booed early last season, I believe most fans who were booing were booing Ozzie's decision rather than Wise himself.

If Kotsay is continues to be misused, he will unfortunately suffer the same fate, which is a shame.

GoSox2K3
04-08-2010, 09:19 AM
A few more games like this and it'll be time to start trotting out the typical Sox fan excuse: It's too cold out for our hitters (but not for the opposing hitters). Once the weather warms up, our bats will come around.

Was at the game, it was disappointing. Kotsay is going to be this years Mackowiak. A Guy who has EXTREME VALUE as a bench player and pinch hitter who will just have that value shredded and ruined by playing far too much.

Haven't you heard? We don't need a full-time player for DH. DHs are out of style. We're playing National League ball now!

DickAllen72
04-08-2010, 09:24 AM
A few more games like this and it'll be time to start trotting out the typical Sox fan excuse: It's too cold out for our hitters (but not for the opposing hitters). Once the weather warms up, our bats will come around.



Haven't you heard? We don't need a full-time player for DH. DHs are out of style. We're playing National League ball now!
Even in the National League, a lineup that features Juan Pierre leading off along with Mark Kotsay batting fifth is not going to be a strong lineup.

mcfish
04-08-2010, 09:25 AM
Eh... come back and get 'em tomorrow. Pitching was kind of disappointing today, but hopefully next time out, Peavy gets back on track. Jenks got out of the jam with minimal damage, but that was a really rough inning. Williams+Pena... just not too great.
Don't lump Williams in with Pena. Williams pitched just fine and left with a man on first base. Pena let all the damage happen.

TheOldRoman
04-08-2010, 09:27 AM
Wonder if the weather had anything to do with it. We score six runs on a wonderful 75 degree afternoon and then come up REAL short on a dreary 40 degreeish night.Well, I am not going to start bashing Walker this early in the season, but this is one of the many excuses he has used over the past 7 years.

It's going to be hard to watch Pierre ground out weakly to 2B all season.I know. And it's also going to suck watching him hit .290 -.300. I mean, he should he at least double that.

They swung when Carmona was throwing balls, and staring when he was throwing strikes. No excuse for the offense tonight.That has been the case over the last several years when they get owned by a horrible pitcher. Swing at balls in the dirt and watch strike three over the plate. Can't judge too much or extrapolate patterns from one game, so hopefully the team improves its offensive approach this season. Peavy was off today. If Cleveland wasn't horrible they would have gotten more then 3 off of him. Meh.

mcfish
04-08-2010, 09:29 AM
Kotsay is probably going to be the whipping boy around here. Nevermind that there are three guys in the lineup who look even worse than Kotsay right now.
are any of them supposedly one of our best 5 hitters by virtue of their position in the batting order? are any of them playing a position that is purely offensive in nature and therefore without any defensive justification for their presence?

BringHomeDaBacon
04-08-2010, 09:34 AM
Kotsay is probably going to be the whipping boy around here. Nevermind that there are three guys in the lineup who look even worse than Kotsay right now.

The difference between Kotsay and the three other guys in the lineup is that Kostsay has 18 HRs in his last 1426 MLB ABs with an OBP below .330 and SLG below .400. The guy is TERRIBLE and Ozzie is a moron for batting him fifth and installing him as a DH that can't hit or run. He's barely rosterable and we have him hitting fifth.

mcfish
04-08-2010, 09:38 AM
From the Field view, what in the hell was Teahen doing with the bases loaded. Ball hit that hard, you get the out at home, or you turn 2. You DON'T run at the runner.Also was at the game, and I had this exact thought. In fact, I was pretty pissed about it.

canOcorn
04-08-2010, 09:40 AM
The sad part is, it's usually not the "whipping boy's" fault, it's the position he's forced into.

Rob Mackowiak was a great bench guy to have on a team, a decent bat with some pop, who played a passable LF, RF and could play a little 3B, 2B and even 1B in a pinch. he was a horrible defensive CFer. So where does Ozzie play him a significant portion of his time with the Sox?

Dewayne Wise was a AAAA talent with a great attitude who was OK to have as a 25th man on a major league roster while one of your regular 25 men was on the DL. So Ozzie makes him the opening day starter and leadoff man.

This year it's Kotsay. I like Kotsay. He's a great guy to have on the bench. He's a pretty good LH pinch hitter, can back up 1B pretty well and can still be used to back up LF and RF and even probably CF in a pinch. So what does Ozzie do? Starts him at DH batting fifth in the order.

In all three cases above, the frustration is caused by the way Ozzie misused the players and the booing and "whipping" of them is misdirected. When D Wise was booed early last season, I believe most fans who were booing were booing Ozzie's decision rather than Wise himself.

If Kotsay is continues to be misused, he will unfortunately suffer the same fate, which is a shame.

QFT.

It's Ozzie's over/misused pet that sadly becomes the whipping boy when the whipping boy should be Ozzie himself.

Dibbs
04-08-2010, 09:45 AM
The difference between Kotsay and the three other guys in the lineup is that Kostsay has 18 HRs in his last 1426 MLB ABs with an OBP below .330 and SLG below .400. The guy is TERRIBLE and Ozzie is a moron for batting him fifth and installing him as a DH that can't hit or run. He's barely rosterable and we have him hitting fifth.

I am glad to see more people coming around. There is no need to "wait and see" what happens before making a decision. I know baseball well enough to know Kotsay should not be in the 5th spot. Hopefully Ozzie can be one of those people very, very soon.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 10:00 AM
Also was at the game, and I had this exact thought. In fact, I was pretty pissed about it.

I watched it on TV, and they totally could have went home with it. It looked like they would have had the out at home pretty easily, actually.

LoveYourSuit
04-08-2010, 10:05 AM
Just because he gets paid to host a talk show doesn't mean you can't feel for the guy when having to talk to the baseball moronic. Jenks for Thome indeed. MORON CALLER!!!!!

Sox pitching didn't get it done. And the batters didn't take advantage of Carmona when he was struggling.


It's baseball. It's a game.

I can name you 100 other lines of work where you and everyone should really feel for that person performing their duties.

DumpJerry
04-08-2010, 10:13 AM
Caller on Rongey's show just suggested we trade Jenks to the Twins for Thome.
Idiot caller.


















Can't trade a free agent signing until June. Everyone knows that.:rolleyes:

doublem23
04-08-2010, 10:17 AM
Idiot caller.
Can't trade a free agent signing until June. Everyone knows that.:rolleyes:

I guess we'll have to settle for Jenks for Mauer or Morneau then. :D:

SCCWS
04-08-2010, 10:41 AM
Well I was too drunk to be too upset by the outcome, but it was really an eye opener to look up at the scoreboard and see two hits in the 9th.

Kotsay getting one more potential at bat than Rios, AJ, Alexei, whoever is just dumb. No other way to put it.

Kotsay in the 2 games has hit better than AJ and Alexei.

DumpJerry
04-08-2010, 10:43 AM
I guess we'll have to settle for Jenks for Mauer or Morneau then. :D:
Sigh.....beggars can't be choosy.:(:

khan
04-08-2010, 11:30 AM
The sad part is, it's usually not the "whipping boy's" fault, it's the position he's forced into.

Rob Mackowiak

Dewayne Wise

This year it's Kotsay.

If Kotsay is continues to be misused, he will unfortunately suffer the same fate, which is a shame.
I can agree to all of this. What's more, if memory serves, Kotsay is far WORSE v. LHP than he is v. RHP. I also recall Jones being better v. LHP than he is v. RHP. Granted, the L-L and R-R percentages don't always work out. But almost ANYTHING would have been better than Kotsay grounding into YET ANOTHER double play, as he's done on OD and last night.

If Ozzie wants a more "versatile" lineup, then why doesn't he use it? If Andruw Jones is such a golden god, where was he in the 7th inning vs. Cleveland's LH reliever? At a minimum, it might have forced Cleveland to use another reliever.

In the 9th, when Kotsay miraculously drew a walk, why didn't Ozzie pull the 34 year old guy with a history of back problems for a pinch runner? I don't know if Nix or Jones or Vizquel are any better, but I'd probably take my chances with the relatively-healthy 27 year old Nix in that situation.

Now, if/when Jones gets his chance and IF he hits like crap, the tired, stupid excuse will be that "he hasn't swung a bat in a week, so he's a bit rusty." This is beyond stupid, IMO. Ozzie had a chance to pull Kotsay v. the LHP to get Jones an AB on OD, and he had a chance last night, too.


In sum, this lineup was built this way because Ozzie wanted the "flexibility" to make more in-game managerial decisions. And whether or not they would have worked out is immaterial. He's GOT TO use the resources he has in the roster, or this will be a repeat of the misuse of Mackowiac/Erstad/Wise etc...

Frankfan4life
04-08-2010, 11:32 AM
Ugly weather, uglier game.

khan
04-08-2010, 11:33 AM
Kotsay in the 2 games has hit better than AJ and Alexei.

I agree that he has. But Kotsay also grounded into double plays vs. LHP in both games. Granted, on OD, it didn't matter. But last night, in the 7th inning, it DID matter that the DH/5th hitter in the lineup failed to deliver the goods.

Ozzie got his way. He got his "versatile lineup" that affords him all the "flexibility" he's craved. I don't know if Andruw Jones would have done any better, but why aren't we seeing it?

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-08-2010, 01:19 PM
Why?

Is he not getting paid to host a talk show?

I would kill for that job.

So I can't feel bad for the fire dept. because they get paid? okay

doublem23
04-08-2010, 01:21 PM
So I can't feel bad for the fire dept. because they get paid? okay

Comparing firefighters to a guy who does the Sox radio shows? Come on.

I don't doubt Chris's job is challenging, but is there anyone here who wouldn't trade places with him in a split second? You couldn't get me to be a fire fighter for any amount of money.

soltrain21
04-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Comparing firefighters to a guy who does the Sox radio shows? Come on.

I don't doubt Chris's job is challenging, but is there anyone here who wouldn't trade places with him in a split second? You couldn't get me to be a fire fighter for any amount of money.

What if I gave you enough money to develop your own Iron Man suit? THEN WHAT?

doublem23
04-08-2010, 01:36 PM
What if I gave you enough money to develop your own Iron Man suit? THEN WHAT?

I would definitely use it for evil.

TDog
04-08-2010, 01:46 PM
I agree that he has. But Kotsay also grounded into double plays vs. LHP in both games. Granted, on OD, it didn't matter. But last night, in the 7th inning, it DID matter that the DH/5th hitter in the lineup failed to deliver the goods.

Ozzie got his way. He got his "versatile lineup" that affords him all the "flexibility" he's craved. I don't know if Andruw Jones would have done any better, but why aren't we seeing it?

When did Kotsay ground into a double play in the second game? I don't believe he hit the ball on the ground in the second game. I don't believe he faced a southpaw in the second game. Kotsay didn't even hit in the seventh inning Wednesday night.

The reality is that one hit should have been enough for the Sox to win Wednesday night. One hit game the Sox a 3-0 lead with Peavy on the mound. Peavy couldn't hold the lead. He couldn't pitch enough innings, requiring Williams and Pena to pitch with the score tied.

BainesHOF
04-08-2010, 03:58 PM
Peavy wanted to throw another inning and Ozzie told him sure, during your next start. Competitor simply didn't want to come out of the game and the manager making a decision that is best for the season.

It was a non-issue. Let's not create one, we seem to have enough of those

I was simply reporting what I saw.

BainesHOF
04-08-2010, 04:29 PM
So everyone was OK with Ozzie bringing in Pena in the seventh inning of a tied game with Putz, Thornton and Jenks well-rested in the bullpen?

(Shakes his head.)

TDog
04-08-2010, 04:55 PM
So everyone was OK with Ozzie bringing in Pena in the seventh inning of a tied game with Putz, Thornton and Jenks well-rested in the bullpen?

(Shakes his head.)

At the time I thought the decision was the correct one because I would be concerned about burning the bullpen in a tie game. If Peavy had gone six, if he had held the lead, Guillen wouldn't have had to go to Williams and Pena.

gobears1987
04-08-2010, 04:56 PM
So everyone was OK with Ozzie bringing in Pena in the seventh inning of a tied game with Putz, Thornton and Jenks well-rested in the bullpen?

(Shakes his head.)
When the team had 2 hits in 9 innings, that's not really the issue that stood out.

Danielgosox38
04-08-2010, 05:13 PM
In a 162 game season, there are going to be games like this. Nothing to do, but forget about it, and go win tonight.

khan
04-08-2010, 07:55 PM
When did Kotsay ground into a double play in the second game? I don't believe he hit the ball on the ground in the second game. I don't believe he faced a southpaw in the second game. Kotsay didn't even hit in the seventh inning Wednesday night.
According to my memory of last night, he did. Also, according to Yahoo Sports, Kotsay did [yet again] make the immortal Aaron Laffey make him [and Ozzie] look stupid. In the 7th inning, RIGHT AFTER THE SOX FELL BEHIND:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=300407104&page=plays


The reality is that one hit should have been enough for the Sox to win Wednesday night. One hit game the Sox a 3-0 lead with Peavy on the mound. Peavy couldn't hold the lead. He couldn't pitch enough innings, requiring Williams and Pena to pitch with the score tied.

If this is what we're hoping for the offense to provide on a regular basis, then this will be a long season.

I'm not concerned about Peavey. He should be fine. But, I maintain my concerns about the offense, and Ozzie's decisionmaking process. Yeah, yeah, I know the old, tired bull**** about "it's only the second game, blah, blah, blah..." But Ozzie has this stupid history of misusing resources in his lineup when the evidence is overwhelming that he should. [See Ozzie's insistence on hitting Thome v. lefties in 2009, among many other examples of this.]