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DirtySox
04-06-2010, 02:48 PM
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ros&cid=494&stn=true&sid=t494

Players to note/watch:

-Dan Hudson
-Lucas Harrell
-Clevelan Santeliz
-Tyler Flowers
-CJ Retherford
-Dayan Viciedo
-Jordan Danks

TomBradley72
04-06-2010, 03:42 PM
Nice to see some legitimate prospects at AAA....just two-three years ago, we had nearly zero prospects at AAA (or at AA for that matter).

Jeff B
04-07-2010, 01:51 PM
Really strong team for the Knights this year.
FutureSox season preview (http://bit.ly/9y3q9I)

Should be a fun team to follow.

DirtySox
04-08-2010, 07:35 PM
Flowers homers in his first AB of the year. Hopefully it was with a nice short stroke.

DirtySox
04-08-2010, 08:23 PM
Jordan Danks also homers. 2 run shot.

Prove me wrong Mr. Danks.

DirtySox
04-12-2010, 04:57 PM
Hudson makes his first start of the season tonight. 6:15

BadBobbyJenks
04-12-2010, 06:50 PM
Hudson makes his first start of the season tonight. 6:15

I was just about to ask when he was getting a start. Thanks.

sox1970
04-12-2010, 08:50 PM
Hudson gave up a leadoff homer in the first. He retired 14 straight batters after that, single, walk, and then another out. 8 strikeouts thru 5. 80 pitches. 49 strikes.

DirtySox
04-12-2010, 09:21 PM
Hudson's line:

5.2 IP 3 H 1 ER 1 BB 9 K

Gunning to take Peavy's spot when he's demoted.

BadBobbyJenks
04-13-2010, 03:16 AM
Hudson's line:

5.2 IP 3 H 1 ER 1 BB 9 K

Gunning to take Peavy's spot when he's demoted.

Dude is going to be a stud.

SephClone89
04-13-2010, 08:44 AM
Hudson's line:

5.2 IP 3 H 1 ER 1 BB 9 K

Gunning to take Peavy's spot when he's demoted.

:cool:

JermaineDye05
04-13-2010, 01:57 PM
Hudson's line:

5.2 IP 3 H 1 ER 1 BB 9 K

Gunning to take Peavy's spot when he's demoted.

I'm really starting to hope they hang onto him. Once Peavy works off the rust and Freddy leaves eventually, our rotation could be scary good.

DirtySox
04-13-2010, 02:33 PM
I'm really starting to hope they hang onto him. Once Peavy works off the rust and Freddy leaves eventually, our rotation could be scary good.

Agreed. Kid knows how to pitch and has 3 solid offerings. He isn't likely to become an ace, but he throws strikes and has great poise and mound presence. There are no legitimate starting pitching prospects behind him, which is why I think (hope) he stays.

JermaineDye05
04-14-2010, 03:41 PM
Small sample size, but it's nice to see Flowers get off to a good start early offensively.

9 hits and 4 of them have been for extra bases and he has 8 RBI.

After his poor spring he needed this.

TDog
04-16-2010, 06:23 PM
Dude is going to be a stud.

I don't even know if this is a line that should impress me. I saw better than this from Grady Hall in person in AAA a little over 20 years ago, and, having seen it, I could see the numbers didn't tell the whole story.

Umpiring can be wildly inconsistent in AAA. Against some AAA teams, you can get away with only one pitch. I don't know what sort of a strike zone Hudson was dealing with. I don't know why Hudson didn't go a full 6 innings. He didn't even pitch a quality start.

Indeed, Hudson might have great stuff. He might be a great pitcher. But these stats don't tell me much, least of all what he'll do in the majors.

...
04-16-2010, 07:35 PM
I don't even know if this is a line that should impress me. I saw better than this from Grady Hall in person in AAA a little over 20 years ago, and, having seen it, I could see the numbers didn't tell the whole story.

Umpiring can be wildly inconsistent in AAA. Against some AAA teams, you can get away with only one pitch. I don't know what sort of a strike zone Hudson was dealing with. I don't know why Hudson didn't go a full 6 innings. He didn't even pitch a quality start.

Indeed, Hudson might have great stuff. He might be a great pitcher. But these stats don't tell me much, least of all what he'll do in the majors.

I don't even know what to say about this post. What the hell is the point of it?

TDog
04-16-2010, 07:40 PM
I don't even know what to say about this post. What the hell is the point of it?

The point is that you can't assume a pitcher is going to succeed in the major leagues because based on minor league stats, let alone be a stud in your rotation.

...
04-16-2010, 08:05 PM
The point is that you can't assume a pitcher is going to succeed in the major leagues because based on minor league stats, let alone be a stud in your rotation.


http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2008/audio/summerall/summerall-influences/summerall-madden.jpg

"Thanks John."

JohnTucker0814
04-16-2010, 08:39 PM
The point is that you can't assume a pitcher is going to succeed in the major leagues because based on minor league stats, let alone be a stud in your rotation.

Stats aren't the only thing you can look at, but for people that can't watch him in person, stats are the main thing we look at. I don't really care if the umpire sucks, the hitters are ****ty, or whatever... if a pitcher puts up consistent solid above average numbers, then I'm gonna assume he's a pretty above average talent.

TDog
04-16-2010, 09:26 PM
Stats aren't the only thing you can look at, but for people that can't watch him in person, stats are the main thing we look at. I don't really care if the umpire sucks, the hitters are ****ty, or whatever... if a pitcher puts up consistent solid above average numbers, then I'm gonna assume he's a pretty above average talent.

Your assumption is usually wrong, if you expect "pretty above average talent" to equate to major league success.

I pretty much only commented because I disagree with people who think this numbers mean Hudson is a future star. I want to hear what people whose judgment I trust say about a minor league pitcher before I get excited about what he could do for my team.

And I would be concerned if he is only pitching 5.2 innings in a start. There might be an explanation, but that to me stands out more than the strikeouts.

However, I am happy when I see a minor league pitcher in the Sox system who doesn't have terrible numbers. I've seen guys in Class A ball who average 2-point-something strikeouts per inning but have ERAs over 8.

Craig Grebeck
04-16-2010, 09:33 PM
It means they are easing him into the season with an inning limit. Follow baseball.

TDog
04-16-2010, 10:14 PM
It means they are easing him into the season with an inning limit. Follow baseball.

Hudson didn't pitch six innings. I've seen a lot of minor-league baseball. I generally don't see starters who are cruising taken out mid-inning unless they are rehabbing, even in April.

If they have Hudson on a pitch count so strict, even in April, that he has to come out with one out remaining in the sixth inning, he is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starting pitcher. If he wasn't cruising, but actually had run out of gas and was in trouble, he also is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starter.

It is hard for me to get excited about that line unless someone whose judgment I trust was at the game and shared observational reasons to excited. Really, I'm not asking how many people he struck out, which may or may not mean anything. I'm asking someone who was at the game to tell me how he looked and why he came out without finishing the sixth.

...
04-16-2010, 10:31 PM
Hudson didn't pitch six innings. I've seen a lot of minor-league baseball. I generally don't see starters who are cruising taken out mid-inning unless they are rehabbing, even in April.

If they have Hudson on a pitch count so strict, even in April, that he has to come out with one out remaining in the sixth inning, he is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starting pitcher. If he wasn't cruising, but actually had run out of gas and was in trouble, he also is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starter.

It is hard for me to get excited about that line unless someone whose judgment I trust was at the game and shared observational reasons to excited. Really, I'm not asking how many people he struck out, which may or may not mean anything. I'm asking someone who was at the game to tell me how he looked and why he came out without finishing the sixth.


Here's an idea, read a ****ing scouting report. Check out a site like futuresox.com where many of the members actually watch these games. It's not just this "line", Hudson's 2009 was beyond impressive.

TDog
04-17-2010, 02:01 AM
Here's an idea, read a ****ing scouting report. Check out a site like futuresox.com where many of the members actually watch these games. It's not just this "line", Hudson's 2009 was beyond impressive.

I was responding to a comment made about a line assuming that nine strikeouts in less than six innings of a minor league game showed a player was going to be a star.

I responded that I have seen more impressive lines from pitchers who didn't become stars. For that matter, I've seen more impressie seasons than his 2009 from pitchers who have struggled in the majors. And, getting back to the original point, I don't believe 5.2 impressive, not even shutout innings in AAA should get anyone excited about the chance that he will replace Jake Peavy in the rotation anytime soon.

Konerko05
04-17-2010, 06:35 AM
Hudson didn't pitch six innings. I've seen a lot of minor-league baseball. I generally don't see starters who are cruising taken out mid-inning unless they are rehabbing, even in April.

If they have Hudson on a pitch count so strict, even in April, that he has to come out with one out remaining in the sixth inning, he is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starting pitcher. If he wasn't cruising, but actually had run out of gas and was in trouble, he also is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starter.

It is hard for me to get excited about that line unless someone whose judgment I trust was at the game and shared observational reasons to excited. Really, I'm not asking how many people he struck out, which may or may not mean anything. I'm asking someone who was at the game to tell me how he looked and why he came out without finishing the sixth.

Weren't you just saying it's stupid to evaluate young picthing based on minor league stats? Yet you're going to make a judgement on if he's ready for the majors based on one start where he dominated, but didn't pitching six innings?

TDog
04-17-2010, 03:21 PM
Weren't you just saying it's stupid to evaluate young picthing based on minor league stats? Yet you're going to make a judgement on if he's ready for the majors based on one start where he dominated, but didn't pitching six innings?

In response to a couple of posters expressing excitement that he could step into the rotation soon, even with the ability to provide more than Peavy, I wrote that the line didn't indicate any such thing. I didn't indicate I believed he did not have potential to be a very good pitcher.

If he were both dominating and major league ready, you would expect him to go more than six innings. I might be wrong, but I would hate to think the White Sox system is developing starting pitchers to only go six innings. At the major league level, Sox starters should be going more than six innings. Minor league starters who are major league ready should be going more than six innings when they aren't facing major league lineups.

But that may be a complaint about pitcher development. I think John Danks would have come up as a better major league pitcher if he had thrown a few complete games in the minors. It relates to stamina and mindset. Jim Parque actually believed his job was to go five innings.

tm1119
04-17-2010, 03:28 PM
Hudson didn't pitch six innings. I've seen a lot of minor-league baseball. I generally don't see starters who are cruising taken out mid-inning unless they are rehabbing, even in April.

If they have Hudson on a pitch count so strict, even in April, that he has to come out with one out remaining in the sixth inning, he is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starting pitcher. If he wasn't cruising, but actually had run out of gas and was in trouble, he also is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starter.

It is hard for me to get excited about that line unless someone whose judgment I trust was at the game and shared observational reasons to excited. Really, I'm not asking how many people he struck out, which may or may not mean anything. I'm asking someone who was at the game to tell me how he looked and why he came out without finishing the sixth.

Stephen Strasburg's 1st minor league start- 5 IP 4 R 1 ER 2 BB 8 K.

Oh no! Strasburg couldnt even make it to the 6th! His prospect status just took a huge hit!

Seriously though, your logic makes no sense. Of course Hudson is on a pitch count. Why wouldnt he be? Its his 1st start of the season and the Sox management is protecting his arm. Plus they may be saving his arm because they know we will need him later in the season(if we can somehow get into contention).
Hudson may never be an ace, but he has a bright future ahead of him as a major league starting pitcher if he stays healthy.

Konerko05
04-17-2010, 05:53 PM
In response to a couple of posters expressing excitement that he could step into the rotation soon, even with the ability to provide more than Peavy, I wrote that the line didn't indicate any such thing. I didn't indicate I believed he did not have potential to be a very good pitcher.

If he were both dominating and major league ready, you would expect him to go more than six innings. I might be wrong, but I would hate to think the White Sox system is developing starting pitchers to only go six innings. At the major league level, Sox starters should be going more than six innings. Minor league starters who are major league ready should be going more than six innings when they aren't facing major league lineups.

But that may be a complaint about pitcher development. I think John Danks would have come up as a better major league pitcher if he had thrown a few complete games in the minors. It relates to stamina and mindset. Jim Parque actually believed his job was to go five innings.

How can you keep writing this many paragraphs on one start, which happened to be his first of the season?

TDog
04-17-2010, 10:57 PM
How can you keep writing this many paragraphs on one start, which happened to be his first of the season?

It seemed necessary to respond to people who misunderstood my posts.

JermaineDye05
04-24-2010, 03:00 AM
Flowers hit his 3rd HR of the year tonight, he drove in 3 as well.

His numbers through 12 games:

.310 3 HR 3 2B 14 RBI 11/6 K/BB

Konerko05
04-24-2010, 06:32 AM
Flowers hit his 3rd HR of the year tonight, he drove in 3 as well.

His numbers through 12 games:

.310 3 HR 3 2B 14 RBI 11/6 K/BB

Trade him. Haha. This guy is going to thit. I'd like to see his K/BB ratio remain strong though. It's one of his best attributes. Well obviously his power as well.

But seriously, look at Viciedo's numbers. Off the top of my head it was like 15 SO/1 BB. What people in scouting were saying he is close the majors? I'm definitely not ready to give up on the guy. He went through a lot last season and wasn't horrible at a young age.

He is just nowhere near the major leagues.

DirtySox
04-24-2010, 10:51 AM
But seriously, look at Viciedo's numbers. Off the top of my head it was like 15 SO/1 BB. What people in scouting were saying he is close the majors? I'm definitely not ready to give up on the guy. He went through a lot last season and wasn't horrible at a young age.

He is just nowhere near the major leagues.

Indeed. He really by no means should be in AAA. He needs to figure out breaking balls, a new position, and some semblance of plate discipline. .218/.234/.309 isn't going to cut it as a 1B. He really should be repeating AA.

BadBobbyJenks
04-26-2010, 12:48 AM
Hudson's last two starts:

5.1 3 ER, 2 BB, 7 hits, 5 k Win
4.1 4 ER, 4 BB, 7 hits, 2 K Loss

DirtySox
04-26-2010, 12:20 PM
Dayan has 2 HR's so far in today's game.

DirtySox
04-27-2010, 07:57 PM
Hudson with another clunker: :(:

1 IP, 8H, 9ER, 1BB, 2K, 2HR

DirtySox
04-30-2010, 03:02 PM
Hudson on this week's Not So Hot Sheet:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2010/269886.html

DirtySox
04-30-2010, 09:40 PM
Flowers goes 4 - 5 HR, K. Currently with a 1.045 OPS.

EMachine10
04-30-2010, 09:45 PM
Flowers goes 4 - 5 HR, K. Currently with a 1.045 OPS.
I'd really like to see another full year of AAA for him, but it might be hard to keep him down for much longer. He can just hit.

DirtySox
05-02-2010, 04:06 PM
Hudson with a nice return to form in today's start:

7.0 IP 4 H 0 ER 2 BB 10 SO

JohnTucker0814
05-02-2010, 06:09 PM
Hudson with a nice return to form in today's start:

7.0 IP 4 H 0 ER 2 BB 10 SO

PHEW! I have him on my dynasty league minor league roster... was hoping he'd dominate this year!!!!

Sam Spade
05-03-2010, 02:39 AM
Hudson on this week's Not So Hot Sheet:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2010/269886.html
Sweet, we made the page.

Jeff B
05-08-2010, 09:35 AM
Dayan Viciedo with a nice run of form, hitting .333/.386/.611 in his last 10 with 3 HR and 1 BB/4 SO. So still not walking, but at least he's stopped striking out.

mzh
05-08-2010, 04:47 PM
Flowers still hitting nicely, .281/4/21/.897.

Konerko05
05-09-2010, 06:33 AM
Flowers still hitting nicely, .281/4/21/.897.

Flowers is hitting, but I'd like to see him continue his close to 1:1 BB:SO ratio he produced in A and AA. He's striking out more than once a game right now. At least he's still drawing his walks though. He should also be able to hit 30 HRs in Charlotte's bandbox.

GAsoxfan
05-10-2010, 01:43 PM
Does Stefan Gartrell have any pro potential? He had a solid 2009 in AA, and is off to a good start at Charlotte this year (although he's in a little slump now), but he's already 26. Is 4th OF his ceiling, or is that even too high?

JermaineDye05
05-10-2010, 02:17 PM
Does Stefan Gartrell have any pro potential? He had a solid 2009 in AA, and is off to a good start at Charlotte this year (although he's in a little slump now), but he's already 26. Is 4th OF his ceiling, or is that even too high?

I'd say he'd probably be a guy that would be used in a classic KW move, one to bring in a KC bullpen arm. This is just my guess, I don't evaluate the prospects as I don't watch them and I'm not a scout.

DirtySox
05-10-2010, 08:27 PM
Flowers 2-2 with 2 HR's so far tonight.

JermaineDye05
05-10-2010, 08:33 PM
Flowers 2-2 with 2 HR's so far tonight.

Well, it's nice to know that if this season goes further south, Flowers could be a player who'd be fun to watch as he seems to have fixed whatever was wrong with his swing.

DirtySox
05-10-2010, 08:39 PM
Well, it's nice to know that if this season goes further south, Flowers could be a player who'd be fun to watch as he seems to have fixed whatever was wrong with his swing.

He is still striking out plenty, but that's his modus operandi. Hopefully he can trim the K-rate a bit while continuing the good plate discipline.

GAsoxfan
05-10-2010, 09:04 PM
He is still striking out plenty, but that's his modus operandi. Hopefully he can trim the K-rate a bit while continuing the good plate discipline.

He strikes me as Adam Dunn-lite. A lot of strikeouts, but a high OBP and a lot of power.

Craig Grebeck
05-11-2010, 08:39 PM
Lucy starting over Flowers again.

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

EMachine10
05-11-2010, 09:24 PM
Lucy starting over Flowers again.

DOES NOT COMPUTE.
Flowers seems to have had his fair share of off days this year

KMcMahon817
05-12-2010, 03:42 AM
Anybody know what happened to Brandon Hynick, the guy we got from Colorado in the Contreras deal? Is he hurt or something?

BadBobbyJenks
05-12-2010, 05:59 PM
Hudson with a nice return to form in today's start:

7.0 IP 4 H 0 ER 2 BB 10 SO

And another one on the 8th:

6.0 IP 7 H 2 ER 0 BB 6 SO

DirtySox
05-12-2010, 07:51 PM
Tyler with HR # 8 tonight. He's found his power stroke it seems.

EMachine10
05-12-2010, 11:42 PM
Viciedo hit his 7th of the year, as well.

JermaineDye05
05-14-2010, 12:27 AM
Another solid outing for Hudson.

6 IP 3 H 0 R 6 K 1 BB

He threw 88 pitches through those 6 innings.

DirtySox
05-15-2010, 11:37 AM
Flowers has 18 K's in the last 11 games. With 98 AB's through the season he's at a 39% K-Rate, which is rather disheartening. The power showing has been encouraging and he's sitting with a .931 OPS, but he needs to cut the K's a bit and hopefully up the BB rate at the same time.

DirtySox
05-17-2010, 07:24 PM
Viciedo hit HR #9 in his first AB tonight. Now if only he would start talking some walks here and there.

JermaineDye05
05-18-2010, 04:12 AM
Viciedo hit HR #9 in his first AB tonight. Now if only he would start talking some walks here and there.

From what I've seen of Viciedo in ST, pitchers should just throw him breaking balls out of the zone. He has some of the worst discipline I've ever seen. He reminds me of myself.

EDIT: I was surprised when I looked at his stats to see his was hitting a respectable .288. However 4 walks to 32 strikeouts clearly jumps out at you.

DirtySox
05-18-2010, 10:41 AM
From what I've seen of Viciedo in ST, pitchers should just throw him breaking balls out of the zone. He has some of the worst discipline I've ever seen. He reminds me of myself.

EDIT: I was surprised when I looked at his stats to see his was hitting a respectable .288. However 4 walks to 32 strikeouts clearly jumps out at you.

The strikeout rate is actually rather encouraging. It's about 23% which is fine, especially if he keeps hitting for power. It would just be nice if he starting showing more plate discipline as you noticed.

Sockinchisox
05-18-2010, 10:15 PM
Viciedo staying red hot, 3 hits today including two 2B. Average up to .299.

Edit: Just notched his 4th hit, another double.

GAsoxfan
05-19-2010, 12:03 AM
Does anyone know well Viciedo is making the transition to 1B? At 5'11", he seems shorter than ideal for 1B, but that's probably the best spot for him.

DonnieDarko
05-19-2010, 11:35 AM
Looking at Jordan Danks' statline, he seems to be very disappointing so far. Sad, really...

DirtySox
05-19-2010, 11:45 AM
Looking at Jordan Danks' statline, he seems to be very disappointing so far. Sad, really...

It's pretty much what I expected. It's very difficult to find a player with his skillset that will succeed with the amount of times he strikes out.

Supposedly for most of this year Jordan and minor league personnel have been attempting to fix his swing to induce more contact, but it hasn't worked out very well so far.

Craig Grebeck
05-19-2010, 11:53 AM
It's pretty much what I expected. It's very difficult to find a player with his skillset that will succeed with the amount of times he strikes out.

Supposedly for most of this year Jordan and minor league personnel have been attempting to fix his swing to induce more contact, but it hasn't worked out very well so far.
With something like that, I almost want to see him back in AA. But I'm sure he's in Charlotte because he meshes with their staff.

They're certainly doing wonders for Dayan lately.

Edit: and regarding Dayan, one wonders if we'll see a spike in his walk totals if he keeps hitting like a monster. Now that he's not OPS'ing .708 and showing good power for a 21 year-old in AAA, he may see less meatballs.

DirtySox
05-19-2010, 12:06 PM
Edit: and regarding Dayan, one wonders if we'll see a spike in his walk totals if he keeps hitting like a monster. Now that he's not OPS'ing .708 and showing good power for a 21 year-old in AAA, he may see less meatballs.

Exactly my thoughts. I'm not jumping on the Dayan hype train just yet. I'll buy my ticket once he starts taking some walks. From following Charlotte on Gameday, Dayan isn't completely averse to taking pitches. Some AB's he will do his hacking, while others he's a bit more selective. I'm hoping it clicks soon, because that bat has higher expectations with the move to 1B.

Craig Grebeck
05-19-2010, 12:47 PM
Exactly my thoughts. I'm not jumping on the Dayan hype train just yet. I'll buy my ticket once he starts taking some walks. From following Charlotte on Gameday, Dayan isn't completely averse to taking pitches. Some AB's he will do his hacking, while others he's a bit more selective. I'm hoping it clicks soon, because that bat has higher expectations with the move to 1B.
Definitely. I've seen some tape -- I think a lot of it might stem from his ego. He thinks he can hit anything. And maybe he will be a fat Vlad Guerrero. Fine with me.

EMachine10
05-21-2010, 01:37 PM
Dayan came in at number 8 on BA's Hot Sheet this week.

DirtySox
05-21-2010, 02:04 PM
Dayan came in at number 8 on BA's Hot Sheet this week.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2010/2610025.html

EMachine10
05-21-2010, 04:11 PM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2010/2610025.html
Yes, links are good :cool:

JermaineDye05
05-23-2010, 02:42 PM
Hudson starting today. A pretty high ERA over 5 in Charlotte. He just struck out the side in the 2nd with a walk in between.

And he just struck out the side again in the third.

DirtySox
05-23-2010, 03:19 PM
Hudson starting today. A pretty high ERA over 5 in Charlotte. He just struck out the side in the 2nd with a walk in between.

And he just struck out the side again in the third.

He had like 1 or 2 horrific outings which were clear outliers. He mentioned they were making mechanical adjustments in those starts. His K/9 has been pretty solid throughout this season. I have no worries at all with Hudson.

He's also dominating today.

DirtySox
05-23-2010, 04:19 PM
Hudson's final line:

8.0 IP 3 H 0 ER 1 BB 11 SO

JermaineDye05
05-23-2010, 04:59 PM
Hudson's final line:

8.0 IP 3 H 0 ER 1 BB 11 SO

I like that walk total.

Strikeouts aren't bad either :cool:.

You think he knew that Freddy was tanking today?

DirtySox
05-24-2010, 10:52 AM
Hudson on KG's Ten Pack

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10950

So is Brandon Short.

guillensdisciple
05-24-2010, 03:39 PM
Viciedo is doing exceptionally well this year. I wonder how long it will be before we get to see him replace Teahen.

GAsoxfan
05-24-2010, 04:09 PM
Viciedo is doing exceptionally well this year. I wonder how long it will be before we get to see him replace Teahen.

They moved Viciedo to 1B this year. He was even worse than Teahen at 3B.

I've been extremely impressed with Viciedo. He's only 21 and near the top of the league in a lot of categories.

EMachine10
05-24-2010, 08:36 PM
Viciedo is doing exceptionally well this year. I wonder how long it will be before we get to see him replace Teahen.
I really can not see him in a White Sox uniform this year. He needs this full year at AAA to work on plate discipline and consistency.

DirtySox
05-24-2010, 09:03 PM
I really can not see him in a White Sox uniform this year. He needs this full year at AAA to work on plate discipline and consistency.

Seconded. Walks please.

Tragg
05-25-2010, 01:32 AM
They moved Viciedo to 1B this year. He was even worse than Teahen at 3B.

I've been extremely impressed with Viciedo. He's only 21 and near the top of the league in a lot of categories.
Doesn't his contract with the Sox expire soon?

NLaloosh
05-25-2010, 06:50 AM
Viciedo is signed for 3 more years.

Does anyone believe that he's improvement increases the likelyhood that Paulie is dealt at the trade deadline?

EMachine10
05-25-2010, 09:51 AM
Viciedo is signed for 3 more years.

Does anyone believe that he's improvement increases the likelyhood that Paulie is dealt at the trade deadline?
Nope.

Tragg
05-25-2010, 11:38 AM
Viciedo is signed for 3 more years.

Does anyone believe that he's improvement increases the likelyhood that Paulie is dealt at the trade deadline?
Thanks.
I thought that we had signed him for 3 years, 2 years ago.
I don't think it increases the chances....after all, we still have Kotsay to play first.

DirtySox
05-25-2010, 11:41 AM
Thanks.
I thought that we had signed him for 3 years, 2 years ago.
I don't think it increases the chances....after all, we still have Kotsay to play first.

I'm unfamiliar with all the specifics, but we have Viciedo under team control exactly as if we drafted him. There aren't any timing issues that would cause us to fast track him, save for impatience.

Tragg
05-25-2010, 11:45 AM
I'm unfamiliar with all the specifics, but we have Viciedo under team control exactly as if we drafted him. There aren't any timing issues that would cause us to fast track him, save for impatience.

Good. Give him time; he's improving, so give him another year down there at least.

A. Cavatica
05-25-2010, 09:30 PM
Viciedo is signed for 3 more years.

Does anyone believe that he's improvement increases the likelyhood that Paulie is dealt at the trade deadline?

Paulie's contract and no-trade clause will dictate whether he will be dealt.

NLaloosh
05-25-2010, 10:00 PM
Paulie's contract and no-trade clause will dictate whether he will be dealt.

I really don't think that either of these would be a problem right now. I'd bet that teams like Seattle and San Francisco are drooling over Konerko right now and I can't imagine why Paulie would want to stay through a fire sale - not that I think that's what Kenny will do but if he did.

PalehosePlanet
05-29-2010, 01:00 AM
Daniel Hudson continuing his recent dominance. He took over the K/9 lead over Aroldis Chapman in the IL. He's #3 on this week's BA hot sheet.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2010/2610061.html

Sockinchisox
05-31-2010, 02:28 PM
Viciedo not in Charlotte's lineup today.

Probably giving him a day off, but with Teahen getting hurt yesterday and Viciedo playing 3B lately you can't help but wonder.

DirtySox
05-31-2010, 02:40 PM
Viciedo not in Charlotte's lineup today.

Probably giving him a day off, but with Teahen getting hurt yesterday and Viciedo playing 3B lately you can't help but wonder.

Meanwhile, Flowers K-rate is at 40% and he's down to .204/.313/.429

There has always been a hole in his swing, but it seems like just now it's being fully exploited. Hopefully he can bounce back.

JermaineDye05
05-31-2010, 03:11 PM
Viciedo not in Charlotte's lineup today.

Probably giving him a day off, but with Teahen getting hurt yesterday and Viciedo playing 3B lately you can't help but wonder.

I really hope not. It feels like they're rushing him on account of the $10 million he's owed.

If he swings like he did in ST, he's gonna have a rough go in the bigs.

Baron
05-31-2010, 03:18 PM
I really hope not. It feels like they're rushing him on account of the $10 million he's owed.

If he swings like he did in ST, he's gonna have a rough go in the bigs.

Makes sense Jermaine I mean Mark was going to have his X ray today....so this could mean he is on the DL

DirtySox
05-31-2010, 03:19 PM
I would assume he is just getting the day off. Dayan is probably more of a butcher at 3B than Teahen as well. There is a reason he's playing 1B the majority of the time.

DirtySox
05-31-2010, 05:15 PM
According to a poster from another site who is familiar with Charlotte personnel, Lillibridge has been removed from the AAA roster for some reason.

He suspects to replace Teahen who might be on his way to the DL.

JermaineDye05
05-31-2010, 05:19 PM
According to a poster from another site who is familiar with Charlotte personnel, Lillibridge has been removed from the AAA roster for some reason.

He suspects to replace Teahen who might be on his way to the DL.

Makes sense. I'm guessing Vizquel/Nix are your starting 3B.

DirtySox
05-31-2010, 05:56 PM
Speaking of Flowers and his batting woes:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100531&content_id=10653000&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Basically says the adjustments they have wanted him to make with his swing aren't working at all and he's likely to go back to what was working for him in the past.

JermaineDye05
05-31-2010, 06:27 PM
Speaking of Flowers and his batting woes:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100531&content_id=10653000&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Basically says the adjustments they have wanted him to make with his swing aren't working at all and he's likely to go back to what was working for him in the past.

More ammo for the Walk haters. If he was in fact the one that made the adjustments in his swing.

GAsoxfan
05-31-2010, 07:03 PM
Speaking of Flowers and his batting woes:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100531&content_id=10653000&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Basically says the adjustments they have wanted him to make with his swing aren't working at all and he's likely to go back to what was working for him in the past.

Hopefully that's the issue and Flowers can get back to mashing the ball. I know he strikes out a lot, but I don't have a big problem with that if you're still getting on base at a 40% clip.

DirtySox
05-31-2010, 07:51 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/789517113/IMG_0615_normal.JPG (http://twitter.com/BSLillibridge) BSLillibridge (http://twitter.com/BSLillibridge)
Getting to Chi could not be hardr flight cancll, switch to another flight delay 2 hours back to Charlotte. So can't fly out til tomorrow. 4 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/BSLillibridge/status/15139993659) via Echofon (http://www.echofon.com/)

California Sox
06-01-2010, 12:50 AM
Here's the sick thing: I would have called up Morel.

Whoever is in that spot will be hitting eighth or ninth and will be judged mostly for their glove. No one they could play is better defensively at third than Morel. And while he might not be 100% ready with the bat, he has a simple repeatable swing. I bet he'd hit at least .250 albeit without much power. Gotta be better than running what's left of Vizquel out there.

guillensdisciple
06-01-2010, 03:34 AM
Viciedo is becoming a home run machine.

BadBobbyJenks
06-01-2010, 04:47 AM
I forgot Littlebridge was still with us, no need for him up here.

EMachine10
06-02-2010, 09:43 PM
Morel hitless in his debut. Then again, Charlotte only managed 2 hits. Flowers with one.

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 09:56 PM
Viciedo hasn't played in 3 games. One wonders if he is injured as well.

For the record, the first three picks of the 2009 draft are now injured and will be/are missing significant time. Mitchell, Phegley, and Thompson. Holmberg better be careful.

GAsoxfan
06-04-2010, 10:32 AM
Viciedo hasn't played in 3 games. One wonders if he is injured as well.

For the record, the first three picks of the 2009 draft are now injured and will be/are missing significant time. Mitchell, Phegley, and Thompson. Holmberg better be careful.

Viciedo was back in the line-up last night - 2 for 3 with an RBI.

At what point does Viciedo pass some guys on the prospect list? He's at least two years younger than all the other Sox top prospects (Flowers, Danks, Morel), and he's the only one playing well at AAA (Morel did well in AA). I know he doesn't have as much "positional value" as the others, but the kid can hit.

Craig Grebeck
06-04-2010, 06:16 PM
Viciedo was back in the line-up last night - 2 for 3 with an RBI.

At what point does Viciedo pass some guys on the prospect list? He's at least two years younger than all the other Sox top prospects (Flowers, Danks, Morel), and he's the only one playing well at AAA (Morel did well in AA). I know he doesn't have as much "positional value" as the others, but the kid can hit.
He's gotta finish strong. He played like dog**** to finish his stint in AA.

Plus he's a first baseman if he plays the field at all, and that will deteriorate his value even further. In a good system, he's not a consideration for best prospect. Unfortunately, this is an awful system.

EMachine10
06-06-2010, 09:43 AM
Flowers hit his 9th HR of the year last night. Hopefully he can find his old swing quickly.

EMachine10
06-06-2010, 06:22 PM
Flowers with his 10th HR today. That's two games in a row. Perhaps he will turn it around.

Viciedo with 3 errors at 1B today. Missed catch, fielding, throw.

sox1970
06-06-2010, 06:25 PM
Flowers with his 10th HR today. That's two games in a row. Perhaps he will turn it around.

Viciedo with 3 errors at 1B today. Missed catch, fielding, throw.

I hope I'm wrong, but I fear Viciedo, Flowers, and Danks are all garbage.

EMachine10
06-06-2010, 06:29 PM
I hope I'm wrong, but I fear Viciedo, Flowers, and Danks are all garbage.
Viciedo may not bring you much in the realm of fielding, but he may turn out to be an offensive asset - we'll see. Worst case - he becomes a DH if his offense is MLB caliber.

DirtySox
06-08-2010, 08:23 PM
Hudson is ready for the inevitable call-up when a starter is traded.

Cruising right now with 9 K's through 5.0 IP.

EMachine10
06-08-2010, 08:41 PM
Hudson is ready for the inevitable call-up when a starter is traded.

Cruising right now with 9 K's through 5.0 IP.
10 through 6 now.

AAA hasn't been kind to Morel thus far.

sox1970
06-08-2010, 09:15 PM
7 shutout innings for Hudson. 0 walks/10 k's, against a pretty good Yankees AAA team.

khan
06-09-2010, 01:27 PM
10 through 6 now.

AAA hasn't been kind to Morel thus far.

Quick, so should the organization make the reactionary move to send him down, since he hasn't been "raking" since arriving in Charlotte?

After all, he was moved up, apparently due to him "raking" in the 10 games leading up to his promotion, right?


I guess I don't get what the rush was with Morel. Exactly what was wrong with him spending even HALF a season in AA? What is/was wrong with him spending a protracted period of time with a coaching staff, who know him and can better advise him than a new group in Charlotte? I mean, is Brent Morel going to ride to the rescue of Ozzie's roster this season?

My guess is NO, so again: Why the rush with this kid?

EMachine10
06-09-2010, 08:56 PM
Flowers with his 11th HR tonight.

Sockinchisox
06-09-2010, 11:39 PM
Flowers starting to pick it up a bit, 3-4 tonight with his 11th big fly. AVG back up to .228.

Viciedo went 0-2 but had a shocking 2 BB.

DirtySox
06-12-2010, 11:33 PM
Flowers hit his 12th HR tonight. Also had a single and a walk. He's now homered in 5 of his last 6 games.

He's been on fire ever since he supposedly ditched the Walker adjustments.

DonnieDarko
06-13-2010, 01:52 AM
He's been on fire ever since he supposedly ditched the Walker adjustments.

Say what? What are these "Walker Adjustments", and what is Walker doing helping someone in AAA when he should be helping the major league club? More details, please.

DirtySox
06-13-2010, 01:54 AM
Speaking of Flowers and his batting woes:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100531&content_id=10653000&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Basically says the adjustments they have wanted him to make with his swing aren't working at all and he's likely to go back to what was working for him in the past.

.

JermaineDye05
06-14-2010, 01:57 PM
Flowers hit his 12th HR tonight. Also had a single and a walk. He's now homered in 5 of his last 6 games.

He's been on fire ever since he supposedly ditched the Walker adjustments.

Granted it's only a minor leaguer but that doesn't bode well for Mr. Walker.

GAsoxfan
06-14-2010, 02:42 PM
Granted it's only a minor leaguer but that doesn't bode well for Mr. Walker.


The last four years haven't boded well for Walker, yet he's still coaching. Unfortunately, I think at long as Ozzie's the manager, Walker will be the hitting coach.

DirtySox
06-14-2010, 08:00 PM
Morel is playing SS tonight for some reason.

DirtySox
06-14-2010, 08:52 PM
Flowers with another HR in tonight's game. Number 13 on the season.

Dayan has also homered and doubled.

Meanwhile Jordan Danks continues to suck with 3 K's.

EMachine10
06-14-2010, 09:01 PM
I think by now, we can all assume that Flowers just needs to ignore Walker and hit the way he knows how to hit.

Dayan's power is showing nicely. Could end up being an asset when that plate patience is brought up to average.

GAsoxfan
06-14-2010, 09:57 PM
Dayan's power is showing nicely. Could end up being an asset when that plate patience is brought up to average.


I'm excited about him. I know he still has some holes in his game, but he's only 21 years old. He could stay in AAA two more years and still get to the majors at a younger age than Flowers and Danks. As long as he's willing to work on his craft, he could be very good.

GAsoxfan
06-14-2010, 10:00 PM
Morel is playing SS tonight for some reason.

Viciedo is at 3rd. Hmmm.,,,

DirtySox
06-15-2010, 01:11 AM
Viciedo is at 3rd. Hmmm.,,,

That isn't too out of the ordinary for Dayan. He's played 3rd numerous times this year, and it was his initial position.

Morel hasn't ever played SS while in the White Sox system. It might just be an attempt to keep him in the lineup. Who knows though. Something to keep an eye on at least.

EMachine10
06-15-2010, 09:00 PM
Viciedo hits his 13th bomb, Danks his 3rd.

Morel back at 3rd. No need to get worked up.

BlackandWhiteSox
06-15-2010, 11:22 PM
If my numbers are correct...

Carlos Torres in 13 starts - 3.22 ERA with 73 K in 78.1 innings.

Dan Hudson(minus the 9 ER over 1 inning start) - 2.82 ERA with 84 K in 70.1 innings.

I like it, along with Viciedo showing an obvious improvement in strength(12 HR over 504 AB in AA last season, 13 HR over 233 AB in AAA this season). I wouldn't mind him coming up as a DH, but he must improve at hitting with runners on because he's awful at that right now.

Jeff B
06-16-2010, 01:26 AM
If my numbers are correct...

Carlos Torres in 13 starts - 3.22 ERA with 73 K in 78.1 innings.

Dan Hudson(minus the 9 ER over 1 inning start) - 2.82 ERA with 84 K in 70.1 innings.

I like it, along with Viciedo showing an obvious improvement in strength(12 HR over 504 AB in AA last season, 13 HR over 233 AB in AAA this season). I wouldn't mind him coming up as a DH, but he must improve at hitting with runners on because he's awful at that right now.
You consider it a skill? And you think the sample size for Dayan with runners on (90AB), is large enough to form an opinion on?

BlackandWhiteSox
06-16-2010, 09:29 AM
I like it, along with Viciedo showing an obvious improvement in strength(12 HR over 504 AB in AA last season, 13 HR over 233 AB in AAA this season). I wouldn't mind him coming up as a DH, but he must improve at hitting with runners on because he's awful at that right now.

You consider it a skill?

Yes, I think situational hitting requires different approaches at the plate.

And you think the sample size for Dayan with runners on (90AB), is large enough to form an opinion on?It's large enough to determine if he's struggling in that area or not this year, wouldn't you agree? More specifically I meant with RISP where he's hitting .183, wouldn't you agree that he's struggled so far this year in that area especially for a middle of the lineup hitter? My mistake if my OP wasn't precise enough in what I was trying to say.

guillensdisciple
06-16-2010, 03:50 PM
If my numbers are correct...

Carlos Torres in 13 starts - 3.22 ERA with 73 K in 78.1 innings.

Dan Hudson(minus the 9 ER over 1 inning start) - 2.82 ERA with 84 K in 70.1 innings.

I like it, along with Viciedo showing an obvious improvement in strength(12 HR over 504 AB in AA last season, 13 HR over 233 AB in AAA this season). I wouldn't mind him coming up as a DH, but he must improve at hitting with runners on because he's awful at that right now.


Excited about Viciedo and think the Sox should consider moving him up to the bigs if the Dh situation continues to suffer. Also, he could give Paulie a breather or two whenever he needs it. I like where he is going, and Viciedo seems to be our most talented bat in our system. Good thing we have him under contract for a while.

As for our pitching, we don't really have many spots open unless we trade one away and I would let Hudson make his way to the roster then .

BlackandWhiteSox
06-16-2010, 05:24 PM
Excited about Viciedo and think the Sox should consider moving him up to the bigs if the Dh situation continues to suffer. Also, he could give Paulie a breather or two whenever he needs it. I like where he is going, and Viciedo seems to be our most talented bat in our system. Good thing we have him under contract for a while.

As for our pitching, we don't really have many spots open unless we trade one away and I would let Hudson make his way to the roster then .

Yep, agreed on everything you said. Viciedo's still only 21 years old as well, who knows he might be far from fulfilling his potential. I wasn't all that excited about him after last season, but like I said I'm happy with the improvement in strength and hopefully the move to 1B pans out in the future.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting that we should bring them(Hudson/Torres) up, just posting what I would consider a better indicator of their success in Charlotte. It's great to have quality options if we trade away some of our starting pitching.

SoxSpeed22
06-16-2010, 05:25 PM
I am pleased with the improvements that Viciedo made, but I'd rather not hear anything about Viciedo in the majors until next September, for call ups. Even though he will always be a guy who strikes out a lot, I would like for him to see more pitches at AAA and learn how to make adjustments on the fly against that competition, before seeing the majors.

Jeff B
06-16-2010, 07:45 PM
I am pleased with the improvements that Viciedo made, but I'd rather not hear anything about Viciedo in the majors until next September, for call ups. Even though he will always be a guy who strikes out a lot, I would like for him to see more pitches at AAA and learn how to make adjustments on the fly against that competition, before seeing the majors.
I don't agree with that. He only struck out in of his 16.7 % of his PA's last year and although that number is higher this year, it was largely down to his bad April. I think he could be a sub 18% K% guy in the Majors with his elite bat speed which would equate to ~100 SO per year. That's pretty good, especially if he's hitting for a >=.200 ISO.

DirtySox
06-17-2010, 07:11 PM
Morel at SS again tonight.

EMachine10
06-17-2010, 08:29 PM
Danks has hit his 4th HR of the year tonight.

EMachine10
06-17-2010, 09:50 PM
Viciedo has hit his 14th HR tonight.

EMachine10
06-17-2010, 10:08 PM
As referenced in the Clubhouse, Viciedo has been called up.

BlackandWhiteSox
06-18-2010, 09:42 PM
Great outing by Matt Zaleski for Charlotte - 7 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 8 K. 3.21 ERA on the season in 81.1 IP, not bad at all.

Jordan Danks goes 4 for 4, Morel 3 for 4. Flowers 0 for 11 in his last 3 games.

EMachine10
06-20-2010, 03:17 PM
Hudson wasn't quite as sharp today - Hurled 102 pitches over 5 innings, surrendering two runs and 4 walks; he struck out six.

BlackandWhiteSox
06-20-2010, 07:48 PM
The Dan Hudson watch(minus the 9 ER, 1 IP start) - 2.87 ERA with 90 K in 75.1 IP.

BlackandWhiteSox
06-21-2010, 09:09 PM
Carlos Torres in 14 starts – 2.95 ERA with 80 K in 85.1 IP


Flowers 2 for 4 with a double and a grand slam in the Top of the 8th, Danks 1 for 3, Morel 0 for 4.

Baron
06-22-2010, 12:08 AM
Carlos Torres in 14 starts 2.95 ERA with 80 K in 85.1 IP


Flowers 2 for 4 with a double and a grand slam in the Top of the 8th, Danks 1 for 3, Morel 0 for 4.

Danks in his last 10 games is hitting a .342.Looks like he is finally starting to hit

Jeff B
06-22-2010, 12:51 AM
Danks in his last 10 games is hitting a .342.Looks like he is finally starting to hit
Still has a 30% K% over that period so I wouldn't get too excited. He's no longer walking now either.

Konerko05
06-22-2010, 03:41 AM
Still has a 30% K% over that period so I wouldn't get too excited. He's no longer walking now either.

Why the hell is Jordan Danks in AAA anyways?

DirtySox
06-22-2010, 10:19 PM
Somehow Tyler Flowers hit an inside the park HR tonight. Given his size and stature, that isn't the easiest feat.

BlackandWhiteSox
06-25-2010, 09:30 PM
Hudson(minus the 9 ER, 1 IP start) - 2.88 ERA with 95 K in 81.1 IP

PalehosePlanet
06-26-2010, 12:27 AM
Carlos Torres in 14 starts 2.95 ERA with 80 K in 85.1 IP


Flowers 2 for 4 with a double and a grand slam in the Top of the 8th, Danks 1 for 3, Morel 0 for 4.

Carlos would make a perfect long-man for The Sox right now. We could release Randy Williams, who is worthless, and move Pena back to his natural set-up role instead of forcing him to be a long reliever.

Pena has actually pitched quite well if you take away his numbers in the 7-1, 8-0, 9-3 types of games he's pitched in. He's been solid in tight games.

DonnieDarko
06-26-2010, 02:48 AM
Hudson(minus the 9 ER, 1 IP start) - 2.88 ERA with 95 K in 81.1 IP

This guy is screaming to be promoted up to the bigs. At the very least he's going to get a damned good shot next season and is likely to replace Garcia then.

Though if Sales pans out (somehow)...well, let's cross that bridge when we get to it. ^_^

BlackandWhiteSox
06-27-2010, 12:44 AM
Torres in 15 starts - 2.92 ERA with 85 K in 92.1 IP

BlackandWhiteSox
06-29-2010, 10:08 PM
Morel - 9 for 19(.474) on his current 5-game hitting streak, 2 solo HR tonight. Hopefully he's starting to get it.

EMachine10
06-29-2010, 10:10 PM
Morel - 9 for 19(.474) on his current 5-game hitting streak, 2 solo HR tonight. Hopefully he's starting to get it.
Beat me to it by 2 minutes...

He appears to be finding his groove.

veeter
06-30-2010, 02:39 PM
Hudson just notched his 11th win. ERA is down to 3.57.

BlackandWhiteSox
06-30-2010, 07:23 PM
Hudson just notched his 11th win. ERA is down to 3.57.

Following up on your comment, Hudson(minus the 9 ER, 1 IP start) - 2.68 ERA with 100 K in 87.1 IP. Awesome.

Morel - 10 for 22(.455) on his current 6-game hitting streak.

veeter
06-30-2010, 10:46 PM
Following up on your comment, Hudson(minus the 9 ER, 1 IP start) - 2.68 ERA with 100 K in 87.1 IP. Awesome.

Morel - 10 for 22(.455) on his current 6-game hitting streak.Please Kenny, don't trade Hudson.

Hitmen77
07-01-2010, 09:51 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0701-white-sox-bits--20100630,0,7795150.story

Hudson, Torres, and Flowers are named to the International League All-Star team.

Flowers? I thought he was having a bad season at the plate in Charlotte.

GAsoxfan
07-01-2010, 09:57 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0701-white-sox-bits--20100630,0,7795150.story

Hudson, Torres, and Flowers are named to the International League All-Star team.

Flowers? I thought he was having a bad season at the plate in Charlotte.

He has a brutal May, but April and June have been solid.

With Santana in Cleveland, maybe there aren't many catching prospects in the IL.

BlackandWhiteSox
07-04-2010, 09:50 PM
Edit: I stand corrected. Morel - 14 for 37(.378) on his current 10-game hitting streak.

Tragg
07-05-2010, 11:31 AM
I certainly would consider bringing up Torres for long relief.
Hudson, I can get keeping in AAA, if their organizational philosophy is not to use potential starters in ML bullpens first.

With the lack of pitching depth in this organization, shouldn't trade either barring a major premium offered.

BlackandWhiteSox
07-06-2010, 02:21 AM
Hudson(minus the 9 ER, 1 IP start) - 2.63 ERA with 106 K in 92.1 IP.

Morel's hitting streak ends at 10 games.

EMachine10
07-08-2010, 09:40 PM
Morel with 2 doubles tonight.

jcw218
07-08-2010, 11:52 PM
Hudson will not be going to the All star futures game slated for Sunday in Anaheim. He has been removed from the US roster for that game. Likely to start the series finale against the Royals.

[/URL][URL="http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100708&content_id=12070110&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws"]Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100708&content_id=12070110&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

tm1119
07-12-2010, 12:49 AM
Torres is being used in relief for Charlotte? Is this a sign of things to come for him?

DirtySox
07-14-2010, 12:19 PM
Jeremy Reed takes the place of injured De Aza in Charlotte.

mzh
07-14-2010, 12:25 PM
Jeremy Reed takes the place of injured De Aza in Charlotte.
Are you serious? If he ends up in the show as a September call up I would laugh. :tongue:

khan
07-14-2010, 12:27 PM
I was hoping that Danks would get his MUCH-deserved demotion back to AA. His offensive numbers suck a horse's ass.

DirtySox
07-14-2010, 12:28 PM
I was hoping that Danks would get his MUCH-deserved demotion back to AA. His offensive numbers suck a horse's ass.

I have no hope. I wouldn't mind him being a cheap 4th outfielder and defensive replacement at some point, but you know how Ozzie likes to overuse marginal players.

khan
07-14-2010, 12:32 PM
I have no hope. I wouldn't mind him being a cheap 4th outfielder and defensive replacement at some point, but you know how Ozzie likes to overuse marginal players.

I see Jordan Danks as an example of a guy who was rushed up. His numbers really weren't that impressive last season, and although his defense is MLB-ready, his bat clearly wasn't even AAA-ready.

Now, the organization lacks the guts to admit a mistake, and send the kid back to AA, where perhaps he can re-find his hitting stroke.

I hated the idea of promoting him last season, since his bat has been a question mark. I hate the idea even more now.

GAsoxfan
07-14-2010, 01:11 PM
Danks has had a very up-and-down year in Charlotte. He had a great April, and then an absolutely brutal May. He improved in June and his July numbers are close to his April numbers. His game definitely has holes, and he'll probably always be a high strikeout guy, but I don't think promoting him to Charlotte was a terrible idea.

eriqjaffe
07-14-2010, 01:52 PM
Are you serious? If he ends up in the show as a September call up I would laugh. :tongue:He's been signed per MLBTR.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/white-sox-sign-jeremy-reed.html

DirtySox
08-19-2010, 12:29 PM
For those unaware, Morel has been playing SS to accommodate the awful glove of Dayan Viciedo at 3rd.

KG on Morel at SS:

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1084526477/kgotto2_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/Kevin_Goldstein) Kevin_Goldstein (http://twitter.com/Kevin_Goldstein)
Makes the plays he gets to, but limited range. RT @SouthSidelarry (http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry): @Kevin_Goldstein (http://twitter.com/Kevin_Goldstein) heard anything from scouts about morel's defense at SS?

tm1119
08-19-2010, 06:55 PM
For those unaware, Morel has been playing SS to accommodate the awful glove of Dayan Viciedo at 3rd.

KG on Morel at SS:

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1084526477/kgotto2_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/Kevin_Goldstein) Kevin_Goldstein (http://twitter.com/Kevin_Goldstein)
Makes the plays he gets to, but limited range. RT @SouthSidelarry (http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry): @Kevin_Goldstein (http://twitter.com/Kevin_Goldstein) heard anything from scouts about morel's defense at SS?

I wonder if he is capable of playing 2b? Theres a little less range needed at 2b when compared to SS and his bat projects rather well there. His slg% even in the minors just doesnt project well to a MLB 3b, but would be more than adequate as a 2b. Could become a much more valuable trade chip for us that way than if he stays at 3B.

Daver
08-19-2010, 06:58 PM
I wonder if he is capable of playing 2b? Theres a little less range needed at 2b when compared to SS and his bat projects rather well there. His slg% even in the minors just doesnt project well to a MLB 3b, but would be more than adequate as a 2b. Could become a much more valuable trade chip for us that way than if he stays at 3B.

Judging a player defensively by how he hits has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen, I have to wonder if it even works for fantasy baseball.

Marqhead
08-19-2010, 07:05 PM
Judging a player defensively by how he hits has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen, I have to wonder if it even works for fantasy baseball.

Defense doesn't matter in fantasy baseball, but slotting players by position is a popular strategy. For instance there is a scarcity of good bats at 2B compared to the OF or 1B so you will often see 2B drafted much higher for similar production.

I don't know if you actually wanted an explanation, but you got one.

Jeff B
08-19-2010, 09:37 PM
Judging a player defensively by how he hits has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen, I have to wonder if it even works for fantasy baseball.
He wasn't judging Morel's defense based on his offensive numbers. Saying that a player projects better at a certain position is more about matching their offensive potential up to a position on the field. A player who doesn't walk or hit for power plays better in a middle infield position, as opposed to a power position like 3B or 1B.

Ideally you'd like to maximize the offensive ability of a team, and sticking a player like Brent Morel at 3B is unlikely to do that.

SoxSpeed22
08-19-2010, 09:47 PM
Remember how "experts" were bashing the Sox for having Pods in left field, where left fielders are expected to hit for power?
I think Morel at third will work as long as Beckham (not a power hitting position) and Ramirez are productive.

Daver
08-19-2010, 10:12 PM
He wasn't judging Morel's defense based on his offensive numbers. Saying that a player projects better at a certain position is more about matching their offensive potential up to a position on the field. A player who doesn't walk or hit for power plays better in a middle infield position, as opposed to a power position like 3B or 1B.

Ideally you'd like to maximize the offensive ability of a team, and sticking a player like Brent Morel at 3B is unlikely to do that.

I ain't buying a bit of that.

A player defends his position on his ability to play his position, what he does at the plate means nothing in this perspective. The rest is fantasy baseball think that has no basis in fact or reality.

Jeff B
08-19-2010, 10:20 PM
Remember how "experts" were bashing the Sox for having Pods in left field, where left fielders are expected to hit for power?
I think Morel at third will work as long as Beckham (not a power hitting position) and Ramirez are productive.
I'm not following your logic. Scott Podsednik sucked.

Daver
08-19-2010, 10:31 PM
I'm not following your logic. Scott Podsednik sucked.


Based on what?

tm1119
08-19-2010, 10:31 PM
I ain't buying a bit of that.

A player defends his position on his ability to play his position, what he does at the plate means nothing in this perspective. The rest is fantasy baseball think that has no basis in fact or reality.

You can continue to live in whatever world you want, but here in reality there is definitely a direct correlation between the position a player plays and his production at the plate. There are of course exceptions, such as if a player brings exceptional speed or defense to the position, but Morel brings neither. Morel will be lucky if ever sees consistent playing in the big leagues if he stays at 3B.

Daver
08-19-2010, 10:34 PM
You can continue to live in whatever world you want, but here in reality there is definitely a direct correlation between the position a player plays and his production at the plate. There are of course exceptions, such as if a player brings exceptional speed or defense to the position, but Morel brings neither. Morel will be lucky if ever sees consistent playing in the big leagues if he stays at 3B.

That reality only exists in fantasy baseball.

Jeff B
08-19-2010, 10:38 PM
I ain't buying a bit of that.

A player defends his position on his ability to play his position, what he does at the plate means nothing in this perspective. The rest is fantasy baseball think that has no basis in fact or reality.
It's all about opportunity costs. Try this http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/12/15/694471/war-for-position-player-sp#10783020

tm1119
08-19-2010, 10:40 PM
That reality only exists in fantasy baseball.

Yet again you state your opinion as if its fact. Show me an example of a player that had a successful career at 3B that didnt bring exceptional power, speed, or defense to the table.

tm1119
08-19-2010, 10:41 PM
It's all about opportunity costs. Try this http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/12/15/694471/war-for-position-player-sp#10783020

Wrong argument to the wrong guy. Daver is too ignorant to even consider a stat like WAR.

Jeff B
08-19-2010, 10:45 PM
Wrong argument to the wrong guy. Daver is too ignorant to even consider a stat like WAR.
Gotcha. Thanks for the heads up.

SoxSpeed22
08-19-2010, 11:12 PM
My point was in 2005, the Sox got bashed for trading home runs for speed in left field. 3rd base is widely regarded as a power position, but since the Sox can get home runs out of Alexei and Beckham (niether one playing positions that are expected to hit home runs) to make up for less power at 3rd base.

tm1119
08-19-2010, 11:39 PM
My point was in 2005, the Sox got bashed for trading home runs for speed in left field. 3rd base is widely regarded as a power position, but since the Sox can get home runs out of Alexei and Beckham (niether one playing positions that are expected to hit home runs) to make up for less power at 3rd base.

Pods falls under 1 of the exceptions that I stated of having exceptional speed to make up for his lack of power.
Alexei doenst have exceptional power for a SS. He probably has slightly above average power for the position, and Beckham needs to prove that he can hit the ball period before we say has has above average power.
Regardless of what position Morel plays he just doesnt bring a whole lot to the table. He hasnt hit for power or gotten on base at a high rate. And I havent seen any scouting reports stating that he plays D exceptionally either. The fact that he plays 3b, a position regarded as a premium offensive position, is not going to help his path to the majors. However, if he can learn to play a position like 2B where weak bats are expected it would help his career a lot. Its common sense really.

DirtySox
08-19-2010, 11:48 PM
And I havent seen any scouting reports stating that he plays D exceptionally either.

What? He is well regarded for his defense at 3B.

sox1970
08-19-2010, 11:54 PM
Since being sent down, Viciedo is 4-27 with 10 K's. And guess what? No walks.

DirtySox
08-20-2010, 12:07 AM
Since being sent down, Viciedo is 4-27 with 10 K's. And guess what? No walks.

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1084526477/kgotto2_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/Kevin_Goldstein) Kevin_Goldstein (http://twitter.com/Kevin_Goldstein)
Including majors and minors, #WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox) 3B Dayan Viciedo hasn't drawn a walk since June 9th.

GAsoxfan
08-20-2010, 09:50 AM
Wild finish in Charlotte last night. Knights were down by one, with two outs in the bottom of the 9th, guys on 1st and 2nd. The batter struck out for out #3, but the ball got away from the catcher and he made it to first.

The pitcher proceeds to walk the next two batters, which scores two runs for the Knights. Game over.

Randar68
08-20-2010, 10:56 AM
The fact that he plays 3b, a position regarded as a premium offensive position, is not going to help his path to the majors. However, if he can learn to play a position like 2B where weak bats are expected it would help his career a lot. Its common sense really.

Chone Figgins at 3rd? Placido Polanco? Both good but not GREAT defensively and with no real power threat.

This is moot though. The point you are making is one of "how to build a team". It's like the thought that your SS was a low power speed guy at the top of your order. That was true for most of the history of baseball up to the steroid era and Alex Rodriguez really broke that mold and shattered it. You might be able to give Cal Ripkin some credit too. That was how the majority of CF'ers were viewed as well.

But if you have a big middle fo the order at 2B, SS, CF, C, etc you can still use a guy that hits for high average without much pop. You simply cannot judge the value of a player (as a hitter) based solely on what defensive position he's going to play. You can say he doesn't fit on team X, Y or Z, but that doesn't mean he is a positionless waste of a player. Guys like that find the right fit and thrive, even if it is starting out as a utility player.

tm1119
08-20-2010, 04:15 PM
Chone Figgins at 3rd? Placido Polanco? Both good but not GREAT defensively and with no real power threat.

This is moot though. The point you are making is one of "how to build a team". It's like the thought that your SS was a low power speed guy at the top of your order. That was true for most of the history of baseball up to the steroid era and Alex Rodriguez really broke that mold and shattered it. You might be able to give Cal Ripkin some credit too. That was how the majority of CF'ers were viewed as well.

But if you have a big middle fo the order at 2B, SS, CF, C, etc you can still use a guy that hits for high average without much pop. You simply cannot judge the value of a player (as a hitter) based solely on what defensive position he's going to play. You can say he doesn't fit on team X, Y or Z, but that doesn't mean he is a positionless waste of a player. Guys like that find the right fit and thrive, even if it is starting out as a utility player.

-Polanco is a 2b. Hes played there the majority of his career. Hes only playing 3b for the Phillies because he filled a hole for the them. Hes actually a perfect example of a guy who came up as a 3b, but was moved to 2b because of his weak bat.
-I already noted that game changing speed is an exception of a guy being able to stick at 3b with limited power. Plus, Figgins isnt a natural 3b either, hes played almost everywhere in his career.
- And of course there are always going to be exceptions of a guy being able to play a position his bat doesnt equate to. Certain teams have the luxury of having a potent lineup and getting away with playing a guy where he doenst belong(ex:philllies with polanco or yankees with gardner). We certainly arent 1 of those teams though. We have a weak lineup as it is, theres no way we could get away with playing a weak bat like Morel at 3B.

Lyle Mouton
08-20-2010, 04:51 PM
-Polanco is a 2b. Hes played there the majority of his career. Hes only playing 3b for the Phillies because he filled a hole for the them. Hes actually a perfect example of a guy who came up as a 3b, but was moved to 2b because of his weak bat.
-I already noted that game changing speed is an exception of a guy being able to stick at 3b with limited power. Plus, Figgins isnt a natural 3b either, hes played almost everywhere in his career.
- And of course there are always going to be exceptions of a guy being able to play a position his bat doesnt equate to. Certain teams have the luxury of having a potent lineup and getting away with playing a guy where he doenst belong(ex:philllies with polanco or yankees with gardner). We certainly arent 1 of those teams though. We have a weak lineup as it is, theres no way we could get away with playing a weak bat like Morel at 3B.
I don't disagree with the broad scope of your argument, but of course we can "get away" with Morel at 3B. He has a tremendous glove -- better than Vizquel's there, most likely -- and has the potential for a passable bat. Why wouldn't we "get away" with that?

Daver
08-20-2010, 05:18 PM
It's all about opportunity costs. Try this http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/12/15/694471/war-for-position-player-sp#10783020

You're kidding, right?

DirtySox
08-20-2010, 05:23 PM
It's all about opportunity costs. Try this http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/12/15/694471/war-for-position-player-sp#10783020

As said earlier, barking up the wrong tree. Don't even bother with Daver.

KempersRS
08-26-2010, 09:01 AM
Morel's last 10:

.436/.450/.846

3 doubles, 2 triples, 3 homers. Really hitting the cover off the ball and now hitting .324 for the year with Charlotte after hitting .326 at Birmingham.

One thing that concerns me is that he only has 1 walk in that span as well. I think I am extra sensitive about because of Dayan, but does anyone know about much about Morel's plate discipline?

Regardless, encouraging to see another bat coming along for the infield.

Craig Grebeck
08-26-2010, 09:16 AM
Morel's last 10:

.436/.450/.846

3 doubles, 2 triples, 3 homers. Really hitting the cover off the ball and now hitting .324 for the year with Charlotte after hitting .326 at Birmingham.

One thing that concerns me is that he only has 1 walk in that span as well. I think I am extra sensitive about because of Dayan, but does anyone know about much about Morel's plate discipline?

Regardless, encouraging to see another bat coming along for the infield.
I don't think Brent will ever have spectacular plate discipline, but he's got much better discipline than Dayan. Dayan is talented enough to hit pitches that are outside of the zone (far outside), but he doesn't always make the best contact since he's always swinging at that ****. Brent seems much, much more selective, despite his low walk totals.

I'm also less concerned about his plate discipline (in general) because he projects as a very, very good defensive third baseman.

KempersRS
08-26-2010, 09:36 AM
I don't think Brent will ever have spectacular plate discipline, but he's got much better discipline than Dayan. Dayan is talented enough to hit pitches that are outside of the zone (far outside), but he doesn't always make the best contact since he's always swinging at that ****. Brent seems much, much more selective, despite his low walk totals.

I'm also less concerned about his plate discipline (in general) because he projects as a very, very good defensive third baseman.

Thanks for the insight. I guess it would seem feasible that they are going to give him the opportunity to start at third next year at the big league level. Creates a little bit of an issue if they wanted to bring Vizquel back. Have to assume Jones will be gone, and then really who knows how PK/Kotsay/Quentin shakes out.

Since it seems like they will actually be in better shape on the infield, I assume Teahen gets moved to the outfield. I think some people will cringe with Teahen being an every day right fielder, but I can't imagine they move him or use him as a super sub after the extension they gave him.

I suppose they could continue the rotating DH madness too. I honestly don't mind Teahen at the plate though.

Craig Grebeck
08-26-2010, 09:40 AM
Thanks for the insight. I guess it would seem feasible that they are going to give him the opportunity to start at third next year at the big league level. Creates a little bit of an issue if they wanted to bring Vizquel back. Have to assume Jones will be gone, and then really who knows how PK/Kotsay/Quentin shakes out.

Since it seems like they will actually be in better shape on the infield, I assume Teahen gets moved to the outfield. I think some people will cringe with Teahen being an every day right fielder, but I can't imagine they move him or use him as a super sub after the extension they gave him.

I suppose they could continue the rotating DH madness too. I honestly don't mind Teahen at the plate though.
I am actually okay with a rotating DH if it means one more good bat comes our way.