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konerko 14
03-30-2010, 07:07 PM
Jayson Nix and Sergio Santos make the final two roster spots. I'm not too sure about what I think of Santos making it :scratch:.

BNLSox
03-30-2010, 07:10 PM
Who did you want instead of Santos?

Hudson needs to be ready for starting work. Wasting away in the pen is not the spot to prepare for that.

konerko 14
03-30-2010, 07:12 PM
I would rather Have De Aza than Santos

oeo
03-30-2010, 07:19 PM
I would rather Have De Aza than Santos

He wouldn't get any playing time. He's in Charlotte if we need him, while we would lose Santos if he didn't make the team.

TomBradley72
03-30-2010, 07:20 PM
Santos is too good to just lose him and get nothing in return...there's no risk of losing De Aza or the other alternatives. We're not that deep in arms that can help put at the major league level...we can't afford to just let one go and get nothing in return.

KMcMahon817
03-30-2010, 09:46 PM
Santos is too good to just lose him and get nothing in return...there's no risk of losing De Aza or the other alternatives. We're not that deep in arms that can help put at the major league level...we can't afford to just let one go and get nothing in return.


Especially with all the work I am sure they have put into him.

They're going to give him a shot, and hopefully he runs away with it.

twinslayer
03-30-2010, 09:51 PM
I don't think there were any problems with the last roster spots to be handed out to Nix and Santos. Nix is a little shaky at times, but fills his role the way he should as a back-up. De Aza would most likely never play, but as other posters have said, he is there if we need him. I am excited to see how Santos performs and I hope it's not all for nought

voodoochile
03-30-2010, 09:57 PM
As expected and the right choices too...

Brian26
03-30-2010, 10:02 PM
Santos is too good to just lose him and get nothing in return...there's no risk of losing De Aza or the other alternatives. We're not that deep in arms that can help put at the major league level...we can't afford to just let one go and get nothing in return.

There's something electric about Santos. It should be fun to see him progress this year.

Nix is valuable because of his versatility.

canOcorn
03-30-2010, 10:04 PM
We've got to keep Santos, but hopefully someone becomes available so we can DFA Nix. Badmit last year and now this? There needs to be improvement in the talent pool if this is who we're keeping or start questioning the people picking the 25 man roster.

Dibbs
03-30-2010, 10:14 PM
Those are clearly the correct choices.

WhiteSox5187
03-30-2010, 10:19 PM
Where's Lillibridge??

BainesHOF
03-30-2010, 11:35 PM
Nix and Linebrink do not belong on a Major League team, much less one that hopes to contend for something.

Nix is a backup infielder who is a butcher in the field, a bad bunter, and someone who ridiculously tries to pull the ball all the time and hits for a low average. The only reason Linebrink is on the team is because of his guaranteed money.

You don't sink or swim with two of the last guys on the roster, but it would be nice if they could actually help you a little bit and not hurt you like these two will.

jabrch
03-30-2010, 11:42 PM
Nix and Linebrink do not belong on a Major League team, much less one that hopes to contend for something.

Boone Logan is in the Yanks pen - they hope to contend.

harwar
03-31-2010, 07:16 AM
Sergio Santos - i'm a fan .. i've actually been pretty worried that they might let Santos go and i'd have to watch him on some other team, so this is great news ..

Sargeant79
03-31-2010, 07:34 AM
I really don't understand the crowd who objects to these roster spot selections...

Nix is literally the last guy on the roster. He can play several positions and has a little pop in his bat. Everyone is well aware that he is not a particularly good player. If he was, he would be in the discussion for a starting job.

What player in the system who can play the infield would have been a better choice? Lillibridge? Pass. Retherford? Not as versatile (yet) and probably not quite ready. Any other suggestions?

We're talking about the 25th man here...every roster in the majors has a guy like this (or if you're the Royals or Pirates, you have about a half-dozen of them). I just don't get the uproar here.

white sox bill
03-31-2010, 07:35 AM
Linebrink IIRC will be paid $5 MIL this yr correct? So Oz and company decide its better to continue to pay his salary, sacrifice ONE spot on the roster(meaning keep him in BP) then it is to send him back to his hometown of Austin TX.....so if the Sox were to replace Liney with a home grown pitcher for next to nothing $ wise, send Linebrink packing w/full pay, and this pitcher whomever it was, actually got some outs and saved some wins for this team, would this not be a preferable situation? I mean if 5MIL is the difference between contending and not contending, that sure doesn't seem like much these days.

I realize the Sox are counting on Linebrink to bounce back. But the fact we have a AAA pitcher at a MLB players price on out team kinda bugs me. Especially when Hudson is wearing a Charlotte uni.

Sargeant79
03-31-2010, 07:48 AM
Linebrink IIRC will be paid $5 MIL this yr correct? So Oz and company decide its better to continue to pay his salary, sacrifice ONE spot on the roster(meaning keep him in BP) then it is to send him back to his hometown of Austin TX.....so if the Sox were to replace Liney with a home grown pitcher for next to nothing $ wise, send Linebrink packing w/full pay, and this pitcher whomever it was, actually got some outs and saved some wins for this team, would this not be a preferable situation? I mean if 5MIL is the difference between contending and not contending, that sure doesn't seem like much these days.

I realize the Sox are counting on Linebrink to bounce back. But the fact we have a AAA pitcher at a MLB players price on out team kinda bugs me. Especially when Hudson is wearing a Charlotte uni.

Linebrink's contract goes through 2011. To cut him, you'd need to eat somewhere around $10 million, not just the $5 mil he will make this year.

At this point, I think they want to see what he's going to give them this year, if for no other reason than to see if they can get at least something for their investment since his contract is a sunk cost at this point anyway. All indications are that he will be used strictly in low-pressure situations where he can't do much damage, at least until he proves he can handle more responsibility.

FWIW, I don't mind this approach. I don't think they are counting on Linebrink at all, and Hudson probably should stay stretched out because I'm not sure how much Freddy should be counted on to make a full season's worth of starts.

white sox bill
03-31-2010, 08:10 AM
Linebrink's contract goes through 2011. To cut him, you'd need to eat somewhere around $10 million, not just the $5 mil he will make this year.

At this point, I think they want to see what he's going to give them this year, if for no other reason than to see if they can get at least something for their investment since his contract is a sunk cost at this point anyway. All indications are that he will be used strictly in low-pressure situations where he can't do much damage, at least until he proves he can handle more responsibility.

FWIW, I don't mind this approach. I don't think they are counting on Linebrink at all, and Hudson probably should stay stretched out because I'm not sure how much Freddy should be counted on to make a full season's worth of starts.
Yea I guess someone gotta mop up. I suppose this further cements JR's philosophy of not giving expensive long term deals to pitchers.

asindc
03-31-2010, 08:14 AM
Yea I guess someone gotta mop up. I suppose this further cements JR's philosophy of not giving expensive long term deals to pitchers.

Bingo. KW acknowledged that he was overpaying for Linebrink and Dotel when he signed them, but expressed frustration that the market forced his hand. While we did get a Division championship out of it, Linebrink has been a disaster otherwise, which goes to what you are saying.

white sox bill
03-31-2010, 08:23 AM
There were more than a few times when I was watching the game last yr and Hawk announced Linebrink was walking in from the Bullpen. I hope nobody heard my frantic cry of "No no no no no no no no!!" out loud. It was like a bad nightmare....or even worse, the movie Groundhog Day

russ99
03-31-2010, 09:21 AM
Bingo. KW acknowledged that he was overpaying for Linebrink and Dotel when he signed them, but expressed frustration that the market forced his hand. While we did get a Division championship out of it, Linebrink has been a disaster otherwise, which goes to what you are saying.

Linebrink hasn't been a disaster. He had an awful second half last year - granted, but the first half of both seasons here were quite good.

Now that we have Putz to setup with Thornton, we don't need to rely on him so much for the 7th/8th, so I expect him to bounce back quite nicely.

If you want to gripe about his salary, fine, but be realistic about his performance. He's pitched many good innings for the Sox, but you only remember the 8-10 last year when he got shelled.

I have much more confidence in Linebrink than Pena at this point. Pena is just raw stuff but when Linebrink is throwing well, he gets guys out. The key this year is to have him throw well the first and second half.

Craig Grebeck
03-31-2010, 09:24 AM
Linebrink hasn't been a disaster. He had an awful second half last year - granted, but the first half of both seasons here were quite good.

Now that we have Putz to setup with Thornton, we don't need to rely on him so much for the 7th/8th, so I expect him to bounce back quite nicely.

If you want to gripe about his salary, fine, but be realistic about his performance. He's pitched many good innings for the Sox, but you only remember the 8-10 last year when he got shelled.

I have much more confidence in Linebrink than Pena.
He was good the first half of 2008, terrible in the second half. He was passable (barely) in the first half of 2009, terrible after. Why are you confident, again?

russ99
03-31-2010, 09:26 AM
He was good the first half of 2008, terrible in the second half. He was passable (barely) in the first half of 2009, terrible after. Why are you confident, again?

I'm not especially confident, but I'm not ready to jettison him and eat his salary either. As the 4th/5th reliever, we could do worse.

Craig Grebeck
03-31-2010, 09:31 AM
I'm not especially confident, but I'm not ready to jettison him and eat his salary either. As the 4th/5th reliever, we could do worse.
Yes, we could. I just fail to see why you think more of him than Pena at this point. Linebrink's not going to get any better at this stage.

Carolina Kenny
03-31-2010, 09:36 AM
Yes, we could. I just fail to see why you think more of him than Pena at this point. Linebrink's not going to get any better at this stage.

Relief pitching is just a total crapshoot. All you can do is collect a blend of good arms, some with experience, some with no experience, some RH and some LH, and roll the dice. That's what Kenny has done.

Hell, look at the success AAArdsma had last year. Who would have predicted that?

BainesHOF
03-31-2010, 09:37 AM
Yes, we can do better than both.

It's not hard to find a utility infielder who can field and bunt. It's also not hard to find a pitcher who isn't so bad that people think he must be injured.

Sargeant79
03-31-2010, 09:49 AM
Yes, we can do better than both.

It's not hard to find a utility infielder who can field and bunt. It's also not hard to find a pitcher who isn't so bad that people think he must be injured.

We already have a utility infielder who can field and bunt: his name is Omar Vizquel. Nix is nothing more than an extra one who can also play the outfield and maybe pinch hit in garbage time. I guess the Sox could go outside the organization to fill that spot, but why? What is out there that is a better option for the 25th guy on the roster? Again, I really fail to see what everyone is so up in arms about.

And which pitcher are you talking about? If it's Linebrink, see my post above.

thedudeabides
03-31-2010, 09:58 AM
Linebrink hasn't been a disaster. He had an awful second half last year - granted, but the first half of both seasons here were quite good.

Now that we have Putz to setup with Thornton, we don't need to rely on him so much for the 7th/8th, so I expect him to bounce back quite nicely.

If you want to gripe about his salary, fine, but be realistic about his performance. He's pitched many good innings for the Sox, but you only remember the 8-10 last year when he got shelled.

I have much more confidence in Linebrink than Pena at this point. Pena is just raw stuff but when Linebrink is throwing well, he gets guys out. The key this year is to have him throw well the first and second half.

I think he has been a disaster. The length of the contract is worse than the total dollar amount. And when he has pitched poorly is when we needed him most. The second half of the season is when guys start wearing down or having dead arm periods. When the Sox have needed him most, he has been dreadful.

This was Kenny's overreaction after the bullpen disaster in 2007. Everyone to a fault thought the length of the deal was bad. He overpaid in years to Linebrink and dollars for Dotel. Altough, I didn't have a problem with the Dotel deal. Paying more money for short term is a safer approach for bullpen contracts.

Hopefully, he can have a good first half and the Sox can try and move him. It may be unlikely, but there are about 20 teams looking for another bullpen arm, so maybe one will be dumb enough to bite and take on some of his salary. He may not hurt the team much being the sixth guy out of the pen, but they sure could use the $9-10 million salary relief right about now. He's going to be the Jaime Navarro of relief pitchers for the Sox. By that I mean he will be the reason you won't see a long free agent deal given to a relief pitcher again.

thedudeabides
03-31-2010, 10:07 AM
We already have a utility infielder who can field and bunt: his name is Omar Vizquel. Nix is nothing more than an extra one who can also play the outfield and maybe pinch hit in garbage time. I guess the Sox could go outside the organization to fill that spot, but why? What is out there that is a better option for the 25th guy on the roster? Again, I really fail to see what everyone is so up in arms about.

And which pitcher are you talking about? If it's Linebrink, see my post above.

I don't really see the reason to be too upset about Nix. If he doesn't have to play SS or 3b, he can be a valuable tool off the bench as a 25th man.

Keep in mind, last years opening day roster included the following players:

Wilson Betemit
Brent Lillibridge
Brian Anderson
Dewayne Wise
Josh Fields
Bartolo Colon
Jose Contreras
Mike MacDougal
Corky Miller

Jeckle
03-31-2010, 10:08 AM
I didn't get to see many ST games. Was Santos fastball really as advertised?

Sargeant79
03-31-2010, 10:09 AM
I don't really see the reason to be too upset about Nix. If he doesn't have to play SS or 3b, he can be a valuable tool off the bench as a 25th man.

Keep in mind, last years opening day roster included the following players:

Wilson Betemit
Brent Lillibridge
Brian Anderson
Dewayne Wise
Josh Fields
Bartolo Colon
Jose Contreras
Mike MacDougal
Corky Miller

(shudder)

Laying it all out like that really makes me feel even better about this year's team compared with last year's. That's 9 Jayson Nix-quality players (10 if you actually include Jayson-Nix) instead of just one.

TomBradley72
03-31-2010, 11:36 AM
Nix is HORRIBLE.

.206 hitter with 81 strike outs in 311 MLB abs...I'd like to see a 25th man who can give us more on defense, and is more of a contact hitter.

Corlose 15
03-31-2010, 12:12 PM
Nix struggled last year at SS and even 3B but he is supposed to have a very good defensive reputation. The Sox threw some things at him last year that he hadn't done before. I wouldn't be surprised if he shored things up this year defensively.

Lip Man 1
03-31-2010, 12:16 PM
Well he's already had six spring training errors (according to the Sox spring stat page...)

Lip

sullythered
03-31-2010, 12:20 PM
Nix is the 25th man. The backup to the backup infielder. Big ****ing deal.

LoveYourSuit
03-31-2010, 12:22 PM
There's something electric about Santos. It should be fun to see him progress this year.

Nix is valuable because of his versatility.


Versatility to do what?

voodoochile
03-31-2010, 12:28 PM
Versatility to do what?

Pinch hit for Teahen when the other team brings in a Loogy late in the game...

WhiteSox5187
03-31-2010, 12:28 PM
Versatility to do what?

The backup infielder on this team is Vizquel, a guy who is pretty good defensively and is adequate with the bat. As has been mentioned, Nix is a backup to the backup who can play a few innings at most defensive positions and provides a nice bit of pop off the bench.

NLaloosh
03-31-2010, 12:32 PM
And, he can steal a base - something in short supply on this team.

russ99
03-31-2010, 07:09 PM
I think he has been a disaster. The length of the contract is worse than the total dollar amount. And when he has pitched poorly is when we needed him most. The second half of the season is when guys start wearing down or having dead arm periods. When the Sox have needed him most, he has been dreadful.

This was Kenny's overreaction after the bullpen disaster in 2007. Everyone to a fault thought the length of the deal was bad. He overpaid in years to Linebrink and dollars for Dotel. Altough, I didn't have a problem with the Dotel deal. Paying more money for short term is a safer approach for bullpen contracts.

Hopefully, he can have a good first half and the Sox can try and move him. It may be unlikely, but there are about 20 teams looking for another bullpen arm, so maybe one will be dumb enough to bite and take on some of his salary. He may not hurt the team much being the sixth guy out of the pen, but they sure could use the $9-10 million salary relief right about now. He's going to be the Jaime Navarro of relief pitchers for the Sox. By that I mean he will be the reason you won't see a long free agent deal given to a relief pitcher again.

Great, so based on his contract he's not supposed to break down later in the season or have a dead arm period, but other guys are allowed to?

Get real. You have a problem with the contract, not with the pitcher.

Did you have a problem with Linebrink when he pitched 8 innings with 8Ks and a 1.13 ERA in April, or 11 innings with 12Ks and a 2.38 ERA in June? This is last year not in 2008. Yeah, just like Jaime Navarro...

Up until August 9th, (when he had a 2.61 ERA) he had 3 bad outings, vs. the Cubs in June, the Blue Jays in May and Baltimore in July.

If Linebrink were being paid the same as Pena would you still have a problem with him? Bobby Jenks was injured and had some bad months last year too, and Thornton had a 5.08 ERA in June - are you also ready to waive them?

thedudeabides
03-31-2010, 07:40 PM
Great, so based on his contract he's not supposed to break down later in the season or have a dead arm period, but other guys are allowed to?

Get real. You have a problem with the contract, not with the pitcher.

Did you have a problem with Linebrink when he pitched 8 innings with 8Ks and a 1.13 ERA in April, or 11 innings with 12Ks and a 2.38 ERA in June? This is last year not in 2008. Yeah, just like Jaime Navarro...

Up until August 9th, (when he had a 2.61 ERA) he had 3 bad outings, vs. the Cubs in June, the Blue Jays in May and Baltimore in July.

If Linebrink were being paid the same as Pena would you still have a problem with him? Bobby Jenks was injured and had some bad months last year too, and Thornton had a 5.08 ERA in June - are you also ready to waive them?

He's been pretty much unusable the second half of both years in his contract. That's a huge problem. If he performed like Jenks, Thornton, or Dotel I would have no problem with him. And yes his contract is the problem. If he were only making $1 million he would probably be cut. Unfortunately, he is owed $10 million over the next two years. For a guy you wouldn't even trust the 7th inningo to, that's a problem.