PDA

View Full Version : Why firing Manuel would be different than the other teams that fired their managers


Viva Magglio
06-15-2002, 04:03 PM
Firing Jerry Manuel and replacing him with a better field manager could spark this moribound team. There was an article in the Tribune last week, I believe, that showed teams which fired their manager have marginally improved at best. This here would be a different case.

Those other teams are not really going anywhere anyway. We still have a chance to go somewhere because I think we're more talented than several of those other teams combined. Also, for a team like ours to fire the manager and go onto the playoffs is certainly not without precedent.

In 1988, the Red Sox let John McNamara go and replaced him with Joe Morgan. They went on to win the AL East. The following year, the Blue Jays got rid of Jimy Williams replacing him with Cito Gaston. The Blue Jays went to the playoffs that year. Two years later they won the first of their two world champsionships.

We can fire Jerry Manuel. We can debate the motivational issue all we want. But he misses far more than he hits on pitching changes plus he cannot decide what kind of lineup to put out there every day. For instance, he benches Royce Clayton and says it's virtually permanent. Yet, we see Royce out there. Earlier in the year, it was the same with Carlos Lee. I know Aaron Rowand and Jeff Liefer have not been much better at the plate than Lee, Jerry seems totally confused. And that confusion only trickles down to the players translating into more losses.

:firejerry
:firenardi

nixsox
06-15-2002, 04:53 PM
Excellent point, we have the talent we just don't have the right people to make it work. I know it's not Jerry's fault every time they lose, but when they can't get up for a series like this something has to be done. :angry:

PaleHoseGeorge
06-15-2002, 05:00 PM
We don't have the talent. Stop deluding yourself.

Furthermore, count on Reinsdorf to hire another manager on the cheap--especially since he still owes Manuel another 2 years.

And you trust Lenny to pick a manager? Let's get real.

Take your lumps. Our best hope is cleaning out the entire barn. If another strike comes, it might be our best chance yet to rid ourselves of the 21 year-old albatross.

LongDistanceFan
06-15-2002, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
We don't have the talent. Stop deluding yourself.

our best chance yet to rid ourselves of the 21 year-old albatross. i agree......... our farm is not as stock as it was once and some of the pit are not coming thru.......

we really don't have positional talent that can come in and help.

21 yo albatross? who or was it in general?

PaleHoseGeorge
06-15-2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
i agree......... our farm is not as stock as it was once and some of the pit are not coming thru.......

we really don't have positional talent that can come in and help.

21 yo albatross? who or was it in general?

I should have called him "the 21 year-old albatross around our neck."

:reinsy
"Where's the love for signing Albert Belle?"

guillen4life13
06-15-2002, 10:47 PM
larry dierker could be a good fit... or maybe they could trade jerry manuel for felipe alou up in detroit (you can trade managers right?). that would be pretty cool. you guys tell me.

CerberusWG
06-15-2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Firing Jerry Manuel and replacing him with a better field manager could spark this moribound team. There was an article in the Tribune last week, I believe, that showed teams which fired their manager have marginally improved at best. This here would be a different case.

Those other teams are not really going anywhere anyway. We still have a chance to go somewhere because I think we're more talented than several of those other teams combined. Also, for a team like ours to fire the manager and go onto the playoffs is certainly not without precedent.

In 1988, the Red Sox let John McNamara go and replaced him with Joe Morgan. They went on to win the AL East. The following year, the Blue Jays got rid of Jimy Williams replacing him with Cito Gaston. The Blue Jays went to the playoffs that year. Two years later they won the first of their two world champsionships.

We can fire Jerry Manuel. We can debate the motivational issue all we want. But he misses far more than he hits on pitching changes plus he cannot decide what kind of lineup to put out there every day. For instance, he benches Royce Clayton and says it's virtually permanent. Yet, we see Royce out there. Earlier in the year, it was the same with Carlos Lee. I know Aaron Rowand and Jeff Liefer have not been much better at the plate than Lee, Jerry seems totally confused. And that confusion only trickles down to the players translating into more losses.

:firejerry
:firenardi

Get over it, Jerry won't be fired this year, or any time soon.

oldcomiskey
06-15-2002, 11:02 PM
the more I think about it the more I realize this a club that needs help---we are certainly better than the Cubs-----but are we really better than Minnesota or seattle or NY or Arizona---that answer is a big fat no-----Jerry Manuel or no Jerry Manuel----this team even it goes to the payoffs does not advance past the first round----I dont want that--i wont be happy until they win it all--and this team aint it

RedPinStripes
06-15-2002, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
We don't have the talent. Stop deluding yourself.

Furthermore, count on Reinsdorf to hire another manager on the cheap--especially since he still owes Manuel another 2 years.

And you trust Lenny to pick a manager? Let's get real.

Take your lumps. Our best hope is cleaning out the entire barn. If another strike comes, it might be our best chance yet to rid ourselves of the 21 year-old albatross.

That's pretty accurate there. I've stopped lying to myself about this team getting to the series while JR owns the team. :angry:

Tragg
06-15-2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
larry dierker could be a good fit... or maybe they could trade jerry manuel for felipe alou up in detroit (you can trade managers right?). that would be pretty cool. you guys tell me.

I've watched and listened to the Astros all my life - Dierker doesn't have a lot upstairs, although he was sabotaged by Craig Biggio, who thinks he's the manager. He's doing a number on Jimmy Williams this year as well.

Alou has the hype and media behind him, but all he did was lose.

I don't know who the manager should be. I'm just a critic!!

baggio202
06-16-2002, 12:41 AM
well ive been on the fire manuel bandwagon since the carlos lee picked off 3rd game..but if we fire him we have to trust kenny williams to pick his sucessor..gee..i can hardly wait...can you imagine the no backbone ass kisser he would hire??

neal
06-16-2002, 12:57 AM
Christ, would you lay off the guy? There isn't much he can do when he doesn't have the talent. Granted, he has made some stupid moves, but that would account for probably about 1 or 2 more wins total this year. You complain about Carlos Lee getting picked off at third... how in the world was that Manuel's fault? The two losses today against the Cubs, how was that Manuel's fault? Unless you want to argue that our two best pitchers Garland and Buerhle shouldn't have gotten the start, there is no argument. When the players simply aren't getting the job done, there isn't a whole lot a manager can do. Jerry has tried switching the lineup up a bit to get something going, but nothing seems to be working. Besides 2 or 3 players on the team, no one is getting it done. Leave the guy alone! Everytime I come onto these boards, I see yet another 'Why Manuel should be fired' or 'I predict this series makes it or breaks it for Jerry' thread. Lay off!

Nellie_Fox
06-16-2002, 03:31 AM
Manuel can only play the hand that's dealt him. Neither of his two best pitchers can get the job done against a weak team like the Cubs. Starting Clayton is hardly the difference in runs we saw.

Once I saw that the Sox were behind by four after the sixth, I knew it was over. They just pack their bags and go away if they're behind after the sixth. Do you want Manuel to go on some Billy Martin-like explosion, shattering the clubhouse urinals with a baseball bat? These guys are multi-millionaire professionals. That crap doesn't work anymore, because the players know that they can just wait out a maniac manager. He can no longer send them to the minors like they used to. They know that they'll be there after he's gone.

harwar
06-16-2002, 10:31 AM
I guess reinsdorfs' great PR move(first team with african GM & manager) isn't going so well.That angle was in all the papers after K.W. was hired.Everyone was laughing at Evans when he took over the dodgers.They aren't laughing now.He has built a good team while the White Sox are a TOTAL F#CKING MESS!When jerry manuel gets out-managed by don baylor,i say its time for a change.I'd love to see K.W. & J.M. BOTH go.Lets just start over again.

duke of dorwood
06-16-2002, 10:44 AM
Well, I for one has been guilty of over-rating the talent on this team. Talent aside, the fundemental errors, both mental and physical we make and inability to come from behind calls for leadership change. I know KW and JM wont be removed, but that doesn't mean I cant feel it's best for the team .

LongDistanceFan
06-16-2002, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


I should have called him "the 21 year-old albatross around our neck."

:reinsy
"Where's the love for signing Albert Belle?" i feel like an idiot........ i FINALLY figured it out......... jeeze.... dah

btw, someone mention that maybe we have overrated our talent and i am adding over rating the minors.......... am i wrong?