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View Full Version : Span signs five-year deal


thomas35forever
03-13-2010, 02:06 PM
http://kellythesier.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/03/twins_sign_denard_span_to_five.html

He gets to be a nuisance for us for awhile.

JermaineDye05
03-13-2010, 02:13 PM
He's still not as bad as Nick Punto.

I'm fine when it's a good player that's hurting us, but when it's a guy barely hitting over .200 who dives head first into every base, then I tend to lose it.

goon
03-13-2010, 02:31 PM
That's an inexpensive contract, I thought he would have got more.

mzh
03-13-2010, 03:36 PM
That's an inexpensive contract, I thought he would have got more.
Between him and Mauer possibly taking a discount people seem to like playing in Minnesota :P

Twins_Morneau
03-13-2010, 06:48 PM
Span is a pros pro, very happy for the kid. His hard work has paid off.

That's an inexpensive contract, I thought he would have got more.

Very good pre-emptive strike like with Blackburn.

goon
03-13-2010, 07:13 PM
Very good pre-emptive strike like with Blackburn.

Nick Blackburn? Woof, you can have the guy.

jabrch
03-13-2010, 11:53 PM
This is the reason I feel Arizona jumped the gun on Upton, gave him too much guaranteed money and did it without seeing enough. Span got 1/3 the dough that Upton got. Great deal for the Twins - this is what a team should get when they buy a young guy out that far...

Nice move for Minny.

Pablo_Honey
03-14-2010, 12:27 AM
This is the reason I feel Arizona jumped the gun on Upton, gave him too much guaranteed money and did it without seeing enough. Span got 1/3 the dough that Upton got. Great deal for the Twins - this is what a team should get when they buy a young guy out that far...

Nice move for Minny.
Wait, wait, are you seriously comparing Span to Upton? Span and Upton are two different types of hitters, the former being a table setter and the latter a cleanup hitter. I don't know much about the differences between their speed and defense but Upton has more power than Span which has more value than any other tools. So, it makes sense Upton gets the bigger dough than Span. Besides, not every player is willing to sign at a hometown discount rate. Maybe D-Backs were hoping for a cheaper contract but Upton didn't budge so they decided to take the risk and give him that extension anyways.

Back on topic, I agree that this is a fantastic move by the Twins. I think Span is rather underrated and the only thing he lacks is power. He's the kind of bat the Sox needed at the top of the order, not Pierre's.

tstrike2000
03-15-2010, 11:04 AM
Good signing for the them. The seemingly prototypical Twin type of player, good contact hitter and fundamentally sound.

doublem23
03-15-2010, 11:16 AM
This is the reason I feel Arizona jumped the gun on Upton, gave him too much guaranteed money and did it without seeing enough. Span got 1/3 the dough that Upton got. Great deal for the Twins - this is what a team should get when they buy a young guy out that far...

Nice move for Minny.

That's probably because Denard Span is 1/3 the player that Justin Upton is.

Span is good. Upton is a superstar.

jabrch
03-15-2010, 01:58 PM
That's probably because Denard Span is 1/3 the player that Justin Upton is.

Span is good. Upton is a superstar.


So you don't acknowledge there is any risk in signing Upton to a 51mm contract based on his first ~1000 ABs that resulted in a line of .272/.350/.485?

For the record, in his first 925 ABs, Span has a .305/.390/.422 line with all numbers trending upward.

Nobody is saying Upton isn't good Dubs. I'm questing the wisdom of 50+mm being spent based on 1 great year and 1.5 mediocre ones. I'm questing the Dbacks practice to buy guys out way before they have to at top dollar - and the results that it has already shown to have.

If the Sox come out this spring and pay Beckham out like Arizona paid out Upton, I will question that wisdom as well.

oeo
03-15-2010, 02:11 PM
So you don't acknowledge there is any risk in signing Upton to a 51mm contract based on his first ~1000 ABs that resulted in a line of .272/.350/.485?

For the record, in his first 925 ABs, Span has a .305/.390/.422 line with all numbers trending upward.

Nobody is saying Upton isn't good Dubs. I'm questing the wisdom of 50+mm being spent based on 1 great year and 1.5 mediocre ones. I'm questing the Dbacks practice to buy guys out way before they have to at top dollar - and the results that it has already shown to have.

If the Sox come out this spring and pay Beckham out like Arizona paid out Upton, I will question that wisdom as well.

Upton has been playing in the big leagues since he was 19. He's a only couple per generation type player. Those numbers you listed were major league numbers, when most guys are working their way up the minor leagues.

Upton will be a steal on that contract. He's a rising star. And scary enough, probably the first one that's actually younger than me.

doublem23
03-15-2010, 04:04 PM
So you don't acknowledge there is any risk in signing Upton to a 51mm contract based on his first ~1000 ABs that resulted in a line of .272/.350/.485?

For the record, in his first 925 ABs, Span has a .305/.390/.422 line with all numbers trending upward.

Nobody is saying Upton isn't good Dubs. I'm questing the wisdom of 50+mm being spent based on 1 great year and 1.5 mediocre ones. I'm questing the Dbacks practice to buy guys out way before they have to at top dollar - and the results that it has already shown to have.

If the Sox come out this spring and pay Beckham out like Arizona paid out Upton, I will question that wisdom as well.

Yes, because if we're lucky Beckham will be a fraction of the player Upton is.

Upton is 22-years-old (that is almost 1 full year younger than Beckham, if you're keeping track at home) and is a full-fledged 5-tool superstar. The fact that the D'backs got him for so cheap is a miracle for them.

jabrch
03-15-2010, 05:15 PM
The fact that the D'backs got him for so cheap is a miracle for them.

Are you kidding? They bought him all the way out, +2 at the top of what he'd likely get in arbitration. A miracle? Geez Dubs - exaggerate much? Guaranteeing him 52mm for one pre-arb year, 3 arb years and 2 FA years....that's a miracle? ****ing miracle - you are right. It's a god damn ****ing miracle that the Rangers got Alex Rodriguez signed so god damn ****ing cheaply. Dude....you are way exaggerating.

jabrch
03-15-2010, 05:27 PM
Upton will be a steal on that contract. He's a rising star. And scary enough, probably the first one that's actually younger than me.

What are the top awards for 2nd and 3rd year arbitration that we have seen so far? I don't know.

He could be the greatest player ever.

He could be Chris Young.

But either way, he's guaranteed 51mm when they had plenty of time to do this before he was going to hit FA and they'd need to lock into those type of $ figures.

I can't believe people don't see risk in one of the largest deals ever for a guy with 2 years of service time...

doublem23
03-15-2010, 05:31 PM
Are you kidding? They bought him all the way out, +2 at the top of what he'd likely get in arbitration. A miracle? Geez Dubs - exaggerate much? Guaranteeing him 52mm for one pre-arb year, 3 arb years and 2 FA years....that's a miracle? ****ing miracle - you are right. It's a god damn ****ing miracle that the Rangers got Alex Rodriguez signed so god damn ****ing cheaply. Dude....you are way exaggerating.

:rolling:

Upton's contract:

2010 (22) - $500 K
2011 (23) - $4.25 M
2012 (24) - $6.75 M
2013 (25) - $9.75 M
2014 (26) - $14.25 M
2015 (27) - $14.5 M

That's a great deal for the Diamondbacks. They're getting him under market value for 5 of the 6 years on that deal. You may now go back to pretending like its still 1962.

:rolling:

jabrch
03-15-2010, 05:40 PM
:rolling:

Upton's contract:

2010 (22) - $500 K
2011 (23) - $4.25 M
2012 (24) - $6.75 M
2013 (25) - $9.75 M
2014 (26) - $14.25 M
2015 (27) - $14.5 M

That's a great deal for the Diamondbacks. They're getting him under market value for 5 of the 6 years on that deal. You may now go back to pretending like its still 1962.

:rolling:


Seriously? Dubs - if they didn't lock in the 29mm in the back end (see Longoria or Span) those are the same prices (+/- a little bit) that he'd get in his pre arb year and then his arb years. Those are not any bargains over what he'd otherwise get. We shouldn't be comparing him in his non-FA years to what he'd get as a FA. If that's the issue you have with my point, then it is clearly a lack of understanding or different definitions of value. If they were entitled to having him at discounts, and all they did was lock in those discounts, then it is security, but no (little) value. And the cost of the security was $30mm in the back two years, plus whatever else they locked into, then what's the win?

Of course he's cheap before FA Dubs....is that what your point is? That they are paying him less in years 3-6 than it would cost to sign him today as a FA? Cuz if that's what you are proposing, then I agree with you 100%. But why was there a need to guarantee 60mm to get that?

Pablo_Honey
03-15-2010, 07:58 PM
Seriously? Dubs - if they didn't lock in the 29mm in the back end (see Longoria or Span) those are the same prices (+/- a little bit) that he'd get in his pre arb year and then his arb years.
Let's see how his contract looks in his arbitration years:

$4.25 mil - will have been $4-10 mil depending on his 2010 numbers
$6.75 mil - will have been $7-13 mil, relative to what he got before
$9.75 mil - will have been at least $10 mil

Of course, this is assuming Upton keeps up his production but given his talent level, I just don't see how he can regress at all barring injuries. He is making slightly less to a lot less money than he normally would have. That's a bargain however you slice it. I just don't see why you think this is a bad contract. I just don't see it, man.

Oh, this may be a bad comparison but Jenks got $5.6 mil in his first arb year and $7.5 in his second arb year. Jenks is not even the half of a player Upton is and he got paid more than Upton will get paid in his first two arb years, mainly because we went year-by-year with him. (Not that we shouldn't have)

Also, don't bring up Longoria's contract to a regular contract extension debate. Rays gave him that contract long before he even finished his first season in the Major and it was just crazy for Longo to sign that contract. There is a reason why no one else has a contract like his.

Those are not any bargains over what he'd otherwise get. We shouldn't be comparing him in his non-FA years to what he'd get as a FA. If that's the issue you have with my point, then it is clearly a lack of understanding or different definitions of value. If they were entitled to having him at discounts, and all they did was lock in those discounts, then it is security, but no (little) value. And the cost of the security was $30mm in the back two years, plus whatever else they locked into, then what's the win?
Explain how having a financial security over a superstar-in-the-making has no value to a middle market team. Anytime you can lock up a franchise star at lower than market value, you do it 99 times out of 100 especially if you can't afford to have an inflated payroll like the Yankees. So what if he's getting paid $29 mil in the first two of his FREE AGENCY years? The kid would have gotten that much money, if not more, anyway. Sure, he may tank and make that contract look bad later but that's the risk anybody should be willing to take.

The kid is young now and he will be young when he hits FA. His potential is limitless and he has already shown a glimpse of what he can do potentially. Imagine if he became the player everyone expects him to be. He will be looking for an A-Rod contract and that's just bad news for the D-Backs. With this contract, D-Backs is saving quite a bit of money AND they get to keep Upton for 6 years without feeling obliged to trade him because they can't afford his price tag. That's a win, a big win.

munchman33
03-15-2010, 08:18 PM
Seriously? Dubs - if they didn't lock in the 29mm in the back end (see Longoria or Span) those are the same prices (+/- a little bit) that he'd get in his pre arb year and then his arb years. Those are not any bargains over what he'd otherwise get. We shouldn't be comparing him in his non-FA years to what he'd get as a FA. If that's the issue you have with my point, then it is clearly a lack of understanding or different definitions of value. If they were entitled to having him at discounts, and all they did was lock in those discounts, then it is security, but no (little) value. And the cost of the security was $30mm in the back two years, plus whatever else they locked into, then what's the win?

Of course he's cheap before FA Dubs....is that what your point is? That they are paying him less in years 3-6 than it would cost to sign him today as a FA? Cuz if that's what you are proposing, then I agree with you 100%. But why was there a need to guarantee 60mm to get that?

Upton has crazy potential. It's not out of the realm of possibility he could see arbitration numbers towards the end of that deal way higher than what he agreed too. The risk works both ways. I'd give him that deal in a hearbeat. Heck, I'd give him 20% more.

doublem23
03-15-2010, 08:27 PM
Upton has crazy potential. It's not out of the realm of possibility he could see arbitration numbers towards the end of that deal way higher than what he agreed too. The risk works both ways. I'd give him that deal in a hearbeat. Heck, I'd give him 20% more.

Yeah, it's a very reasonable deal for the D-backs. There's risk any time you sign a guy to a long term deal, but they've got Upton through his 1st 2 FA years for under $60 M, it's not at all difficult imaging him commanding $80+ M in those years via arbitration and on the free market.