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HomeFish
03-07-2010, 11:35 AM
I don't follow the NL much, but I've been wondering: why have the Reds been so bad over the last decade?

Is it low payroll? Bad General Manager? Bad luck? Or are they the NL's equivalent of the Blue Jays, stuck in a division with two perpetual powerhouses?

Marqhead
03-07-2010, 11:40 AM
The Reds are on the up and up. Lots of young talent both in the field and on the mound. They are going to be the sleeper pick of a lot of people this year, I'd love to see them compete for a playoff spot.

DirtySox
03-07-2010, 12:04 PM
Love the Reds. Always have and always will. I don't see them winning the division this year, but they could contend. I expect a big things in 2011. That have some decent young talent on the farm, and the rotation could be mighty nice next year and beyond. Chapman, Cueto, Volquez, Leake, and Bailey could be real solid. With Arroyo and Harang off the books next year, they could have some money to play with.

The Alonso over Beckham pick is still a real head-scratcher. Alonso isn't likely to have much success at a position other than 1st, and Votto doesn't want to move. There has been speculation that he might be traded for another similarly touted prospect at some point.

HomeFish
03-07-2010, 01:00 PM
Yeah, what ever happened to Bronson Arroyo? My late grandfather was a huge Charles Bronson fan so I was kind of rooting for Arroyo to be successful.

PalehosePlanet
03-07-2010, 02:20 PM
I don't follow the NL much, but I've been wondering: why have the Reds been so bad over the last decade?

Is it low payroll? Bad General Manager? Bad luck? Or are they the NL's equivalent of the Blue Jays, stuck in a division with two perpetual powerhouses?

It's been a combination of the things you describe --- except the "tough division" argument.

The biggest problem this past decade has generally been that the Reds have had some horrible starting pitching.

Shoeless_Jeff
03-07-2010, 02:22 PM
Indeed. The Reds are headed in the right direction and are my pick to finish second in the division the year.

All those years they had that clown Jim Bowden as GM really set them back.

doublem23
03-07-2010, 02:44 PM
Deadspin's real high on them:
http://deadspin.com/5486157/cincinnati-reds-the-looming-tower?skyline=true&s=i

g0g0
03-07-2010, 03:32 PM
2 words - Marge Schott.

SOXSINCE'70
03-07-2010, 04:21 PM
If Dusty Baker would learn how to manage a pitching staff they might have a shot someday.Someone should remind him that it's ok to use the bullpen occasionally.

Lip Man 1
03-07-2010, 04:32 PM
Homefish...this has been the Reds in a nutshell.

During the winter before the opening of the new Great American Ballpark, Carl Linder, the CEO of the Reds was doing interviews with the Cincinnati newspapers. He came right out and told them (and in a strange way you have to give him credit for telling the truth...) that he ordered then G.M. Jim Bowden to cut the payroll.

When the reporters asked him why he said (paraphrasing) 'because we're going to draw so many fans this year that our revenue sharing money is going to go down...'

As with most awful franchises the problem is small minded ownership with small minded thinking.

Lip

PKalltheway
03-07-2010, 05:53 PM
Incompetent ownership, who decides that signing Eric Milton to a big contract is a good idea.

Bad luck. Remember, they won 96 games and missed the playoffs in 1999, then went out and traded for Ken Griffey, Jr., who was the best player in baseball at the time. They signed him to a huge deal, and unfortunately, injuries started to take their toll on Griffey. Plus, the size of the contract really weighed down the club for a while, too.

Awful, awful, awful, awful, awful pitching. Just take a look at some of their rotations over the last ten years. They're just downright pathetic. Although they've had some good offensive clubs over the last decade, it's hard to win games when your pitchers are giving up 6-7 runs a night. Then, when their pitching started to improve, the offense tanked.

That's what it has been like for the Reds for the last ten years. Hard to believe that they've made the playoffs only twice in the last 30 years (albeit with a World Championship thrown in for good measure). Heck, the only time I remember the team contending deep into the season during the last 10 years was 2006. Even though it was by default, contention is contention, especially in a city that has been waiting 15 years for playoff baseball.

Viva Medias B's
03-07-2010, 09:31 PM
2 words - Marge Schott.

She may have played a role, but weren't the Reds at least competitive during much of her reign in spite of her flaws? They did win a World Series on her watch. This is not a defense of Marge, and I wholeheartedly supported her ouster as Reds majority owner over things we need not discuss in this thread. For every good thing she did for the Reds, she did two bad things for them.

As for this year's Reds squad, could Dusty impede their success?

doublem23
03-07-2010, 09:38 PM
2 words - Marge Schott.

She owned the Reds from 1984-1999, during that time, the Reds had a winning record (1300-1225), won a World Series, and the NL Central title in 1995.

Since then, they are over 100 games under .500 (751-869), have only posted 1 winning record and finished higher than 3rd once (both 2000).

HomeFish
03-07-2010, 10:27 PM
As for this year's Reds squad, could Dusty impede their success?

As a Chicagoan, I'm inclined to not "trusty" in Dusty.

Are any current Reds players greeted with cheers of "pattycake, pattycake, Baker's man?"

g0g0
03-08-2010, 08:31 AM
She may have played a role, but weren't the Reds at least competitive during much of her reign in spite of her flaws? They did win a World Series on her watch. This is not a defense of Marge, and I wholeheartedly supported her ouster as Reds majority owner over things we need not discuss in this thread. For every good thing she did for the Reds, she did two bad things for them.

As for this year's Reds squad, could Dusty impede their success?

She owned the Reds from 1984-1999, during that time, the Reds had a winning record (1300-1225), won a World Series, and the NL Central title in 1995.

Since then, they are over 100 games under .500 (751-869), have only posted 1 winning record and finished higher than 3rd once (both 2000).

Marge did do some good things as all owners do. But she didn't spend the money to take them to the next level. They had the potential to stay extremely competitive for a long time. Just because she ended her reign in '99 doesn't mean her decisions didn't affect the organization after that. (Though having Griffey Jr. as a bust didn't help either!)

34 Inch Stick
03-08-2010, 02:15 PM
Marge did do some good things )

Just like Hitler.

soxfanatlanta
03-08-2010, 02:16 PM
Just like Hitler.

Did you really have to go there?

PatK
03-08-2010, 02:46 PM
Bad pitching in a small park= disaster

russ99
03-08-2010, 07:39 PM
It's been a combination of the things you describe --- except the "tough division" argument.

The biggest problem this past decade has generally been that the Reds have had some horrible starting pitching.

I think the new ballpark has a big effect on the less-that-expected results from the starting pitching staff the last few years. That place is launching pad in the summer.

The Reds big mistake was trying to field a speed team as if they were still playing at Riverfront.

Also, with the previous ownership, the payroll was an issue, but that's not as big a problem anymore, not that they'll be confused with the Cubs or Dodgers anytime soon.

doublem23
03-08-2010, 08:39 PM
Did you really have to go there?

If you're talking about Marge Schott, it's only a matter of time before Hitler's name comes up.

g0g0
03-09-2010, 07:44 AM
if you're talking about marge schott, it's only a matter of time before hitler's name comes up.

lol! :tongue:

DumpJerry
03-09-2010, 08:08 AM
Phil Rogers has a man-crush on Aroldis Chapman (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-spt-0309-rogers-on-baseball--20100308,0,2512132.column).

g0g0
03-09-2010, 10:06 AM
Phil Rogers has a man-crush on Aroldis Chapman (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-spt-0309-rogers-on-baseball--20100308,0,2512132.column).

Hitting 100mph on fastballs will do that to them hehe.

34 Inch Stick
03-09-2010, 10:38 AM
Did you really have to go there?

Do you understand that she said this in an interview?