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View Full Version : Sports Illustrated rates Kenny 9th best GM


DumpJerry
03-04-2010, 05:40 PM
However, Billy Beane is number 10 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/03/03/gm.rankings/index.html)?:?:

Boondock Saint
03-04-2010, 06:17 PM
Four of the top ten GM's on that list have not made a single deep playoff run with their team. I don't see how you can consider a GM to be successful without having that level of success.

SephClone89
03-04-2010, 06:36 PM
Sox fans think Kenny is "daft" or "clueless"?

*flies "what the ****" flag*

areilly
03-04-2010, 06:37 PM
Sox fans think Kenny is "daft" or "clueless"?

*flies "what the ****" flag*

Some do. You can find many of them on this very message board.

asindc
03-04-2010, 06:39 PM
It seems that KW is fairly ranked, but the author attributes owners' foibles to too many of the GMs on the list, including KW.

Craig Grebeck
03-04-2010, 07:22 PM
I'd probably put Kenny in the 10-15 range, so I think he's fairly placed.

Tragg
03-04-2010, 07:35 PM
Building a good system doesn't mean jack if you can't translate it to the major league ballclub. We're still waiting, Jon Daniels (and Mark Shapiro and many others). He's rating a lot of these guys completely on the come.
I think the guy from Seattle is interesting. He turned a team winning in the 60s to an above average outfit in a season. That's GMing.

Rohan
03-04-2010, 07:38 PM
Sox fans think Kenny is "daft" or "clueless"?

*flies "what the ****" flag*

My thoughts exactly...

Some do. You can find many of them on this very message board.

I bet that less than a handful here would say that...

mzh
03-04-2010, 07:39 PM
Don't wuite get how Florida is at 4 when MLB is considering a rule change because they give away so much young talent being too cheap to pay for it. :scratch:

They've been to the playoffs twice in their whole existence, lucked in to World Series, and have done jack **** in a division that was winnable at least 4 ties since 2003. Third place finishes does not a good GM make.

tm1119
03-04-2010, 08:03 PM
Id say Kenny's ranking is pretty fair. The only question mark for me is #5. People are making Z in Seattle out to be a genius before anybody has had time to see if the moves pan out or not. Way to early to judge him at this point.

And some of the guys in the top 10 are being rewarded for working with what they have. The Marlins are competitive pretty much every year, despite having a pitiful payroll. The GM needs to be commended for that.

soltrain21
03-04-2010, 08:10 PM
Don't wuite get how Florida is at 4 when MLB is considering a rule change because they give away so much young talent being too cheap to pay for it. :scratch:

They've been to the playoffs twice in their whole existence, lucked in to World Series, and have done jack **** in a division that was winnable at least 4 ties since 2003. Third place finishes does not a good GM make.

What does that have to do with the GM? He is forced to trade players and gets good talent back. I'd say that is a damn good GM.

WhiteSox5187
03-04-2010, 08:57 PM
How in God's name is Andy McPhail that high? They said he "built winning clubs in Minnesota and Chicago," granted he did a fine job in Minnesota, but other than 1998 and 2003 (which were really flukes) what winning teams did he have in Chicago??

cards press box
03-04-2010, 09:50 PM
I'd probably put Kenny in the 10-15 range, so I think he's fairly placed.

I disagree. Theo Epstein and Brian Cashman are good GM's but look at their payrolls. If KW had Cashman's budget, the Sox would have air tight lock on the AL Central and possibly the AL as well. The only one ahead of KW on the SI list that probably belongs there is Larry Beinfest. I'm a big fan of Jack Zduriencik but he has only been there about a year. Same is true of Andrew Friedman of Tampa Bay. I like what he has done but he too has had a short tenure. I don't think it is fair to rank either one ahead of KW until they win a World Series.

As for Doug Melvin, Dan O'Dowd and Jon Daniels, I just flat disagree with SI. I don't see how anyone could rate any of those guys ahead of KW.

thedudeabides
03-04-2010, 10:09 PM
Winning doesn't mean a whole lot on this list. Daniels and Melvin ahead of Kenny, are you kidding me?

So Mozelaik and Bill Smith have done nothing but win and they are 18 and 21. Amaro Jr. Makes the World Series in his first year and is 19, while Zduriencik is 5?

When are people going to let go of the Billy Beane myth? Has anyone outside of LaRussa benefited more from steroids than him?

Craig Grebeck
03-04-2010, 10:36 PM
Winning doesn't mean a whole lot on this list. Daniels and Melvin ahead of Kenny, are you kidding me?

So Mozelaik and Bill Smith have done nothing but win and they are 18 and 21. Amaro Jr. Makes the World Series in his first year and is 19, while Zduriencik is 5?

When are people going to let go of the Billy Beane myth? Has anyone outside of LaRussa benefited more from steroids than him?
What Z has done with the Mariners is pretty remarkable for one. On Beane, he's been rebuilding for some time now. Should things click, it'll be a monster there for years. He's made some mistakes in recent years -- most notably letting Carlos Gonzalez go out of impatience -- but I'd still say he's top 10.

As for Amaro Jr, how much credit do you give to a guy who inherited that team? The writer makes a good point: the Ibanez contract is a giant albatross.

Lip Man 1
03-04-2010, 11:09 PM
Got some information from an agent who looked at that list and laughed, they said Shapiro should be ranked 30th. (and he wasn't joking...)

Lip

jabrch
03-04-2010, 11:24 PM
I don't see Depodesta or Riccardi on that list. Shocking.

Craig Grebeck
03-05-2010, 01:54 AM
I don't see Depodesta or Riccardi on that list. Shocking.
I don't understand this. Depodesta has a great job and is the most accessible front office guy in baseball -- why slam him?

TheOldRoman
03-05-2010, 09:57 AM
I bet that less than a handful here would say that...No, there is a pretty significant faction of people on here who "know more" than KW, and it gets progressively worse among message boards as you go down in collective IQ.

Oblong
03-05-2010, 10:03 AM
I've read a few stories by this writer and he bugs me.

Found this story on my Tiger forum where Dombrowski ranks #13. No real issues with that ranking but he called the Granderson trade "dubious". That's right. He's judging a 3 way deal involving 7 players before a single MLB game has been played.

And his write up on Williams was equally dumb. I think the #9 is about right but it certainly sounded more negative than a #9 should be. Why? Oh I get it. Because he makes moves that guys like Tim Marchman bash, then they turn out to be wrong about it.

Oblong
03-05-2010, 10:05 AM
No, there is a pretty significant faction of people on here who "know more" than KW, and it gets progressively worse among message boards as you go down in collective IQ.

I don't think that's limited or exclusive to the Sox though. Most, if not every, team has a vocal fan base that thinks their GM stinks. Go to a Tiger site and search for the ever so clever "Dumbrowski". It'll crash the server.

asindc
03-05-2010, 10:23 AM
I've read a few stories by this writer and he bugs me.

Found this story on my Tiger forum where Dombrowski ranks #13. No real issues with that ranking but he called the Granderson trade "dubious". That's right. He's judging a 3 way deal involving 7 players before a single MLB game has been played.

And his write up on Williams was equally dumb. I think the #9 is about right but it certainly sounded more negative than a #9 should be. Why? Oh I get it. Because he makes moves that guys like Tim Marchman bash, then they turn out to be wrong about it.

I agree on both counts. It seems that quite a few writers hate having to admit they are wrong about a GM, manager, or player, so they just have to get in a dig even while praising them. On the write-up of Dombrowski (one of Western Michigan University's finest, by the way:smile:), the author mentions the big contracts he has given out, but I attribute those more to Illitch than to Dombrowski.

SI1020
03-05-2010, 10:47 AM
No, there is a pretty significant faction of people on here who "know more" than KW, and it gets progressively worse among message boards as you go down in collective IQ. There's also a pretty significant faction who will brook absolutely no opposition whatsoever to anything KW or Ozzie do or say. That being said, I think ranking KW in the bottom half of the top ten is fair.

mzh
03-05-2010, 11:38 AM
I don't understand this. Depodesta has a great job and is the most accessible front office guy in baseball -- why slam him?
His team pretty much failed. That's why. After DePodesta's awful 2005, Coletti pretty much rebuilt that team.

Domeshot17
03-05-2010, 12:21 PM
I don't know if I agree with all the guys in front of him, but I would expect Kenny to be right where he is. Wins some trades, loses some trades, had to pretty much remove himself from the draft and all things minor leagues (not including trading). Strikes gold with some of these retread players, strikes out with some but when he does strike gold, its big (AJ, Dye, Contreras).

The writer has summed up our philosophy since 2007 pretty well, run out a team that is good not great and hope for the best. Some years we win, some years we don't.

Kenny is in the top 10 of all MLB GMs. I don't see how that is bad or a slight, in anyway.

Craig Grebeck
03-05-2010, 01:00 PM
His team pretty much failed. That's why. After DePodesta's awful 2005, Coletti pretty much rebuilt that team.
With DePodesta's ****ing awesome farm system.

mzh
03-05-2010, 01:41 PM
With DePodesta's ****ing awesome farm system.
Since February 16, 2004, when he was named GM:
-Released Joakim Soria
-Left Shane Victorino unprotected in the Rule V, was taken by the Phils
-Signed Jeff Kent to a decent but not great deal that paid him $9MM the last year of his career.
-Signed Derek Lowe to a pretty good deal

None of their stars today were drafted or acquired by DePodesta.
Matt Kemp was drafted in 2003.
Andre Ethier was drafted in 2003
Chad Billingsley was drafted in 2003
Russell Martin was drafted in 2002
Clayton Kershaw was drafted in 2006
Jonathan Broxton was drafted in 2002.

So this is mostly Dan Evans ****ing awesome farm system
Yes, THAT Dan Evans

HomeFish
03-05-2010, 02:03 PM
A lot of Sox fans thought Kenny was dumb before 2005. Remember when he misspelled a guy's name and traded for the wrong prospect?

iamkoza
03-05-2010, 02:05 PM
How in God's name is Andy McPhail that high? They said he "built winning clubs in Minnesota and Chicago," granted he did a fine job in Minnesota, but other than 1998 and 2003 (which were really flukes) what winning teams did he have in Chicago??

McFAIL as good ole Murph would say (and probably still says on his daily radio show to his cats).... I was shocked to see him and Hendry rated so highly. Hendry has signed some horrific deals recently (Zambrano, Soriano, Bradley to name a few).

SI1020
03-05-2010, 02:20 PM
A lot of Sox fans thought Kenny was dumb before 2005. Remember when he misspelled a guy's name and traded for the wrong prospect? Wasn't that Berry/Barry?

Craig Grebeck
03-05-2010, 02:43 PM
Since February 16, 2004, when he was named GM:
-Released Joakim Soria
-Left Shane Victorino unprotected in the Rule V, was taken by the Phils
-Signed Jeff Kent to a decent but not great deal that paid him $9MM the last year of his career.
-Signed Derek Lowe to a pretty good deal

None of their stars today were drafted or acquired by DePodesta.
Matt Kemp was drafted in 2003.
Andre Ethier was drafted in 2003
Chad Billingsley was drafted in 2003
Russell Martin was drafted in 2002
Clayton Kershaw was drafted in 2006
Jonathan Broxton was drafted in 2002.

So this is mostly Dan Evans ****ing awesome farm system
Yes, THAT Dan Evans
Colletti sucks. I don't have time to go bit by bit, but here's a decent article on DePo.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-best-out-of-work-gm-in-baseball/

Paul is a great guy. Honestly, I wish Hahn kept a blog like Paul does. It's a great resource.

Boondock Saint
03-05-2010, 02:57 PM
McFAIL as good ole Murph would say (and probably still says on his daily radio show to his cats).... I was shocked to see him and Hendry rated so highly. Hendry has signed some horrific deals recently (Zambrano, Soriano, Bradley to name a few).

Hendry is pretty fairly rated, IMO. He signed some pretty awful contracts, but he's made some pretty incredible trades, too.

Hitmen77
03-05-2010, 05:16 PM
Hendry is pretty fairly rated, IMO. He signed some pretty awful contracts, but he's made some pretty incredible trades, too.

Hendry has the benefit of the Cubs deep pockets and high payroll to make him look good. That being said, perhaps #16 is fair enough for him. I'm not suggesting that he's terrible. But he wouldn't look as good if he was limited to even a Sox-level payroll.

mzh
03-05-2010, 08:20 PM
Colletti sucks. I don't have time to go bit by bit, but here's a decent article on DePo.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-best-out-of-work-gm-in-baseball/

Paul is a great guy. Honestly, I wish Hahn kept a blog like Paul does. It's a great resource.
Not saying Coletti is great, but how good have the Pads done with Towers and DePo? He may be the best non-GM in baseaball, but then there is probably a reason he is a non-GM.

Craig Grebeck
03-05-2010, 08:32 PM
Not saying Coletti is great, but how good have the Pads done with Towers and DePo? He may be the best non-GM in baseaball, but then there is probably a reason he is a non-GM.
I think a lot of that could be attributed to his personality. I think he could get a job, but it'll take a while. With the Dodgers on the way down, and the Giants mired in their typical offensive uncertainty, I would bet on the Padres to rise in the near future.

mzh
03-05-2010, 08:48 PM
I think a lot of that could be attributed to his personality. I think he could get a job, but it'll take a while. With the Dodgers on the way down, and the Giants mired in their typical offensive uncertainty, I would bet on the Padres to rise in the near future.
They are poised to deal the best player they've had since Paul Molitor, recently dealt their best pitcher ever, have no pitching now, and other that A-Gon have nearly 0 offense. The Dodgers and Giants just don't magically cancel eachother out. I think the D-Backs have a better chance of being good in the near future.

Craig Grebeck
03-05-2010, 09:11 PM
They are poised to deal the best player they've had since Paul Molitor, recently dealt their best pitcher ever, have no pitching now, and other that A-Gon have nearly 0 offense. The Dodgers and Giants just don't magically cancel eachother out. I think the D-Backs have a better chance of being good in the near future.
Well, I like Hoyer's pedigree, and I think A-Gon will command an awful lot of talent.

You know who we're forgetting? The ****ing Rockies. They'll be the best.

mzh
03-05-2010, 09:18 PM
Well, I like Hoyer's pedigree, and I think A-Gon will command an awful lot of talent.

You know who we're forgetting? The ****ing Rockies. They'll be the best.
Dodgers will still be up there for a long while if they get some more starting pitching. Kemp, Ethier et al. should be more than adequate on offense.

TheVulture
03-06-2010, 06:03 PM
I don't know if I agree with all the guys in front of him, but I would expect Kenny to be right where he is. Wins some trades, loses some trades, had to pretty much remove himself from the draft and all things minor leagues (not including trading). Strikes gold with some of these retread players, strikes out with some but when he does strike gold, its big (AJ, Dye, Contreras).



KW wins a heck of a lot more trades than he loses. And he often wins BIG. The only trade I can think of he's really lost recently might be the Swisher to Yankees trade, but I don't mind he lost that one in order to get rid of the bum any way.

The problem with Williams is that he always seems to leave an aspect of the roster unaddressed.

Lip Man 1
03-06-2010, 06:14 PM
Vulture:

I'm assuming that's because he doesn't have as much to work with budget-wise and there are needs on the club. You have to pick and choose sometimes.

Lip

gbacci
03-08-2010, 02:44 PM
Vulture:

I'm assuming that's because he doesn't have as much to work with budget-wise and there are needs on the club. You have to pick and choose sometimes.

Lip

Good point Lip - if you consider what he did in '05 with what was a fairly limited payroll, he should be ranked a bit higher. This list seems focused solely on the offseason of '10.