PDA

View Full Version : Jerry...Jerry...Jerry


Viva Magglio
06-14-2002, 09:50 PM
Jerry Manuel is on the hot seat. I think his job should hinge on this weekend's series.

RedPinStripes
06-14-2002, 09:53 PM
:firejerry

This guy sucks!

Jerry_Manuel
06-14-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Jerry Manuel is on the hot seat. I think his job should hinge on this weekend's series.

Why do you keep thinking that? Manuel isn't going anywhere, no matter how much everyone wants to see it happen.

Viva Magglio
06-14-2002, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Why do you keep thinking that? Manuel isn't going anywhere, no matter how much everyone wants to see it happen.

And, thus, our suckage will continue.

Jerry_Manuel
06-14-2002, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
And, thus, our suckage will continue.

I don't think Manuel is the reason why the team sucks, but, yep your right there.

MattSharp
06-14-2002, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I don't think Manuel is the reason why the team sucks, but, yep your right there.

I think its just that your username will be stupid if he gets fired, that is why you defend him....

Seriously though, I think he is a large portion to blame. Its a lot like DePaul with Pat Kennedy. He had all that talent but he sucked and no one wanted to play for him. Q left, Simmons left, Hunter left. I mean they had the talent but he didn't do things with it. Same applies here. I agree with:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/firejerry.jpg

Jerry_Manuel
06-14-2002, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by MattSharp
I think its just that your username will be stupid if he gets fired, that is why you defend him....

Seriously though, I think he is a large portion to blame. Its a lot like DePaul with Pat Kennedy. He had all that talent but he sucked and no one wanted to play for him. Q left, Simmons left, Hunter left. I mean they had the talent but he didn't do things with it. Same applies here. I agree with:


Nah, I'll change it to if he is. He's made a lot of stupid moves, but for every game he "blows", you can look at games where the players just didn't get the job done.

MattSharp
06-14-2002, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Nah, I'll change it to if he is. He's made a lot of stupid moves, but for every game he "blows", you can look at games where the players just didn't get the job done.

Ok so then if you get a manager who won't "blow" so many games, then we would have that manyy more wins. I agree that the players blow games too, but Jerry has blown many more, and I think he is responsible for a lot more....

Viva Magglio
06-14-2002, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I don't think Manuel is the reason why the team sucks, but, yep your right there.

He is not the sole reason, but he is a major reason. His low key Gandhi-like approach to managing creates an anti-motivational atomsphere that translates into corpseball play like we say today (except Paulie and Maggs).

Viva Magglio
06-14-2002, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by MattSharp
Its a lot like DePaul with Pat Kennedy.

That is a great point. Even though the suckage of DePaul basketball is very delightful to me as a Loyola fan (DePaul = Flubs in basketball shorts), that is a perfect analogy between Jerry and Fat Pat.

Jerry_Manuel
06-14-2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by MattSharp
Ok so then if you get a manager who won't "blow" so many games, then we would have that manyy more wins. I agree that the players blow games too, but Jerry has blown many more, and I think he is responsible for a lot more....

The point I'm trying to make is simply that the Sox aren't a World Series caliber team. No matter who the manager is, they aren't that good.

Viva Magglio
06-14-2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


The point I'm trying to make is simply that the Sox aren't a World Series caliber team. No matter who the manager is, they aren't that good.

I agree with that, but I think we would be a better team if we had a better manger.

Chisox_cali
06-14-2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


The point I'm trying to make is simply that the Sox aren't a World Series caliber team. No matter who the manager is, they aren't that good.

Well hell, with that attitude what keeps you here?

FarWestChicago
06-14-2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!


He is not the sole reason, but he is a major reason. His low key Gandhi-like approach to managing creates an anti-motivational atomsphereI'm not taking sides in the Jerry debate, but exactly how do you know this? Do you have evidence that screaming at players is the only way to motivate them? I'm just curious.

Pukester
06-14-2002, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I'm not taking sides in the Jerry debate, but exactly how do you know this? Do you have evidence that screaming at players is the only way to motivate them? I'm just curious.

Hell yeah I do!!!!

Look at how much success Don Baylor and Bobby Valentine have had doing it!

Screaming and throwing things always make players run hit and catch better !!!

Jerry_Manuel
06-14-2002, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali
Well hell, with that attitude what keeps you here?

Posts like that, Cali. :smile:

Jerry_Manuel
06-14-2002, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
I agree with that, but I think we would be a better team if we had a better manger.

True, but there's only so much a manager can do. Sooner or later, it's up to the players to perform.

fogie
06-14-2002, 10:59 PM
I think Jerry needs to toughen up on some players, and maybe him self included.

Chisox_cali
06-14-2002, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Posts like that, Cali. :smile:

HA HA. Good Times :D:

Also no one would have sigs

Jerry_Manuel
06-14-2002, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali
Also no one would have sigs

That's not true, Spiff makes them.

Anyway, just for the record, my thoughts on Manuel have nothing in common with my user name. Just wanted to point that out.

Viva Magglio
06-14-2002, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I'm not taking sides in the Jerry debate, but exactly how do you know this? Do you have evidence that screaming at players is the only way to motivate them? I'm just curious.

I'm not saying he has to be Bob Knight (even though there are certain players' necks we'd like to see Jerry go for). But I do think he should bitch out the team when it's called for. Supposedly, he's never yelled at the team behind closed doors. Lou Holtz might be too high-strung, but I think he greatly balances this. He knows which buttons to push and when.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-14-2002, 11:52 PM
Personally, I don't see any useful reason for having a baseball manager who yells and screams at his players. This isn't football, and it's not college hoops either.

A baseball team plays 162 games; a football team just 16. It's not physically possible for a ballplayer to be "up" for so many games. In fact, I have my doubts a football player can be up for even 16 games--and they do all sorts of yelling and shouting.

The best teams in the history of baseball still lost nearly a quarter of their games. Imagine the emotional weight of playing so many games you were "up" for, only to lose. There is no way you could keep that pace for six months straight. I doubt you could keep it up for more than 2 weeks.

A manager who yells and screams simply burns out the players. Sooner or later, they start laughing about him behind his back. Either that, or they just plain quit. A guy like Billy Martin was great for squeezing the most from his team the first 1-2 years, but quickly wore out his welcome.

Terry Bevington was an intense guy, and look where he led us. The '96 Sox simply crashed and burned. That was one of the worst seasons I've ever experienced as a Sox Fan.

duke of dorwood
06-15-2002, 12:08 AM
This managers story is written with all the baserunning errors, inability to move runners, losing close games, and uninspired play. The bad moves are only a small part of it. If the talent is there, like a lot of us think it is, the manager is the difference.

MarkEdward
06-15-2002, 01:14 AM
It will take a lot of losing seasons before Sox management even considers firing Manuel. It took Davy Lopes two losing seasons before he was fired. It took Gene Lamont 4 losing seasons before he was fired by the Pirates. Terry Francona was kept on for 4 losing seasons before the Phillies let him go. Garner stayed in Detroit for two losing years before being fired. Manuel will probably keep his job until the Sox fall into the basement of the AL Central.

GASHWOUND
06-15-2002, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Personally, I don't see any useful reason for having a baseball manager who yells and screams at his players. This isn't football, and it's not college hoops either.

A baseball team plays 162 games; a football team just 16. It's not physically possible for a ballplayer to be "up" for so many games. In fact, I have my doubts a football player can be up for even 16 games--and they do all sorts of yelling and shouting.

The best teams in the history of baseball still lost nearly a quarter of their games. Imagine the emotional weight of playing so many games you were "up" for, only to lose. There is no way you could keep that pace for six months straight. I doubt you could keep it up for more than 2 weeks.

A manager who yells and screams simply burns out the players. Sooner or later, they start laughing about him behind his back. Either that, or they just plain quit. A guy like Billy Martin was great for squeezing the most from his team the first 1-2 years, but quickly wore out his welcome.

Terry Bevington was an intense guy, and look where he led us. The '96 Sox simply crashed and burned. That was one of the worst seasons I've ever experienced as a Sox Fan.

I agree, a manager who screams and yells is extremely overrated and would probably cause more friction than good. You don't have to go crazy to have your team to be motivated..Joe Torre looks like he's sleeping during the game and his teams wins cause of the players..Is Alou gonna come in here and make this team a winner? Does he yell and scream??I don't think so...You want a Larry Bowa type manager who throws a temper tantrum every time there's a strike called on one of his hitters? And there's eve friction between Rolen and Bowa..like I said it would cause more friction than good..
The only reason reason people want a fiery manager is cause they look at a guy like Pinella and see how successful he is. If people remember he's had alot of sucky seasons with the Mariners, even with having Griffey and Randy Johnson. It's all about the players, he got some good players in here and what a surprise, there winning..

The Sox have some good talent, but JM yelling at Durham, Frank, Foulke or whoever ain't gonna do diddly squat..If these players don't know what has to be done to win or can't motivate themselves than the problem isn't with the manager its with the players.
These are professionals, not college kids and a manager yelling at them ain't gonna do crap but cause friction.
And how do we know he hasn't yelled at the players in the closed door meetings the Sox have had, or if JM has called certain players into his office for some words of wisdom, of course we don't know if he has or hasn't, but lets give him the benefit of the doubt that he might of..It's done nothing..

ANY manager who comes in if or when JM is fired will get ridiculed in a matter of time by the fans..It may not be right away, but after awhile we'll be calling for the head of any other manager we may get in he future.
If JM would to switch places with Bob Brennley last year he would've won the World Series, and Brennely would've sucked he in Chicago. Same thing for Torre and JM, switch places and JM would be a genius and we'd be calling for the head of Torre with such excuses as he isn't fiery enough.
I do agree JM isn't Casey Stengal(duh), but I believe any manger should only get about 30% of the blame, with the pitching coach getting a portion of it to, but the majority of the blame should always go to the players, they can make a manager look like a genius, but can also make the manager look like a moron..we tend to always look at the moves that make the manager look bad than look at the moves that make him look good, its just natural for us cause we haven't won anything in like forever..Understandable.

But I do agree there should be a change in the managerial position, maybe it would spark the club..who knows, but I doubt the Sox would do it in the middle of the year, if will be done in the off season if the Sox miss the playoffs this year, along with Nardi.
A whole new approach wouldn't hurt.

oldcomiskey
06-15-2002, 12:47 PM
and who are you going to replace him with--lets see---Tony Muser is available and can stay that way----Buck Showalter--nah!!!!Lets see Billy Martin--oh sorry--Hes dead-----Al Lopez--no--hes dead too

DonkeyKongerko
06-15-2002, 03:52 PM
the point is sometimes you just have to fire a manager to shake things up. it works for a short time for almost all teams i think. the tigers and royals both went on short little rolls early in the careers of their new managers. the toronto blue jays have heated up for no apparent reason as well. a change in clubhouse mood, pep talks with a different style, and maybe just seein a different guy in the dugout could change the course of this team, and i think it's one of those things that needs to be done.

Viva Magglio
06-15-2002, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
and who are you going to replace him with--lets see---Tony Muser is available and can stay that way----Buck Showalter--nah!!!!Lets see Billy Martin--oh sorry--Hes dead-----Al Lopez--no--hes dead too

Actually, I think Al Lopez is still alive. But he's old. Very old.

nixsox
06-15-2002, 04:37 PM
Fire everybody, Manuel, Contreras, Ward, Pettis, Johnson and KW. Keep Nossek and let him manage. As far as the coaching staff is concerned, who cares anybody is better then them. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

oldcomiskey
06-15-2002, 04:41 PM
I suppose its Manuels fault that Frank struck out in the 9th---and Leifer grounded into that DP--I suppose its his fault our offense sucks to the High Heavens

Viva Magglio
06-15-2002, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
I suppose its Manuels fault that Frank struck out in the 9th---and Leifer grounded into that DP--I suppose its his fault our offense sucks to the High Heavens

No, it's not his fault. But he's no help either. Get rid of him.

nixsox
06-15-2002, 04:48 PM
He can at least try and motivate this team. I'm sick of this team not having any heart. Today was brutal. :angry:

Spiff
06-15-2002, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by MattSharp


I think its just that your username will be stupid if he gets fired, that is why you defend him....

That is the single most retarded thing ever said on this board.

Dadawg_77
06-15-2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by DonkeyKongerko
the point is sometimes you just have to fire a manager to shake things up. it works for a short time for almost all teams i think. the tigers and royals both went on short little rolls early in the careers of their new managers. the toronto blue jays have heated up for no apparent reason as well. a change in clubhouse mood, pep talks with a different style, and maybe just seein a different guy in the dugout could change the course of this team, and i think it's one of those things that needs to be done.

That why you fire a guy half in the season, to shake things up. It might be the spark this team needs.

Viva Magglio
06-15-2002, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Spiff


That is the single most retarded thing ever said on this board.

Well, you don't see anyone with a Terry_Bevington handle. He does have a point.

Dadawg_77
06-15-2002, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
I suppose its Manuels fault that Frank struck out in the 9th---and Leifer grounded into that DP--I suppose its his fault our offense sucks to the High Heavens

No its the ump that call a ball 3 inches of the plate a strike.

Paulwny
06-15-2002, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
I suppose its Manuels fault that Frank struck out in the 9th---and Leifer grounded into that DP--I suppose its his fault our offense sucks to the High Heavens

When a team is expected to do well and doesn't, no matter the reason, the manager gets the blame.
Last year almost everyone agreed that, because of Frank's injury and injuries to the pitching staff, last year wasn't a time to evaluate JM.
He picked the starting 9 out of ST, if they perform he gets the credit, if they don't he gets the blame.

oldcomiskey
06-15-2002, 04:59 PM
alright---suppose we do fire him-----who replaces him? Ive alreadys asked this once----Agreed that this team needs a fire lit--or maybe the offense aint that good in the 1st place--I mean what have we got--2 rising stars in Maggs and Walnuts----an aging DH who was hurt almost all last season--a second baseman who can be either great or awful --a SS who I love in Valentin but lets be honest--had a career year in 2000.....a third baseman whose better off in a utility role---an aging catcher--and a leftfielder that cant hit AND cant field--a pitching staff that minus Burly and garland would totaly suck and a bullpen that cant hold a lead--all Manuels fault--yeah lets fire him

Spiff
06-15-2002, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!


Well, you don't see anyone with a Terry_Bevington handle. He does have a point.

Haha no he doesn't. It's easy to change your name anyway. He wouldn't defend the manager for the sake of his screen name.

This isn't the first time MS has insulted Jer either, I don't know what his problem is but he comes off as a real a**hole.

Garrison
06-15-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I'm not taking sides in the Jerry debate, but exactly how do you know this? Do you have evidence that screaming at players is the only way to motivate them? I'm just curious.

I don't have any evidence that screaming etc. at players will work. However, I do have evidence that impersonating Ghandi while clapping your hands and daily tinkering with the lineup and defense with certainly not work. It hasn't yet anyways. JM isn't the only problem that this team has, but I believe that he's the biggest problem that we have. Now I dunno if he's 51% of the problem or 99% of the problem, but he's the biggest part of our failures. IMO.

LongDistanceFan
06-15-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
alright---suppose we do fire him-----who replaces him? Ive alreadys asked this once----Agreed that this team needs a fire lit--or maybe the offense aint that good in the 1st place--I mean what have we got--2 rising stars in Maggs and Walnuts----an aging DH who was hurt almost all last season--a second baseman who can be either great or awful --a SS who I love in Valentin but lets be honest--had a career year in 2000.....a third baseman whose better off in a utility role---an aging catcher--and a leftfielder that cant hit AND cant field--a pitching staff that minus Burly and garland would totaly suck and a bullpen that cant hold a lead--all Manuels fault--yeah lets fire him lets fire or trade those that really are the prob.

nardi> bring or promote one of the other pit coaches in the minor or look around
ward> bring in a better hitting coach
trade> clee, and durham
release> clayton, since no other team wants his services.
deal with the mess of the pen
after kw is done with all that, then he should resign, b/c he caused most of this mess.

i am still a backer of JM and i haven't seen how this is all his prob.

Viva Magglio
06-15-2002, 07:26 PM
Jerry Manuel's record against the Cubs: 11-12 (.478)

We are 13-13 overall with Terry Bevington (NO! Please don't rehire him!) going 2-1 against them in 1997.

You know, having a bad record against the archrival can get coaches fired. Just ask John Cooper.

EyeLoveOrdonez30
06-15-2002, 11:52 PM
I am sorry but I must say that if Manuel infact is fired (which, by the way, won't happen) I will miss the "We don't play long ball with anybody" commercials, haha.

Ok anyway, I think Manuel is responsible for SOME of the losses, but as of now the players need to start getting off their asses and start playing like a team. :)

jklm
06-16-2002, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by EyeLoveOrdonez30
I am sorry but I must say that if Manuel infact is fired (which, by the way, won't happen) I will miss the "We don't play long ball with anybody" commercials, haha.

Ok anyway, I think Manuel is responsible for SOME of the losses, but as of now the players need to start getting off their asses and start playing like a team. :)

You mean the "We can give up long balls to anyone (especially Sosa)" and "Come ready to lose" commercials?? :)

Seriously, JM has lost his magic keeping the team together. I don't know why since this was his strength in the past.