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asindc
02-22-2010, 08:14 PM
Since the various discussions of our DH position have sometimes focused on our strength at that position relative to other teams in the division, I think this might be a fun exercise:

For each position listed, choose who you would draft 1st if picking 1st, 2nd if picking 2nd, etc., among the AL Central starting lineups. This is not meant to be a purely analytical or scientific exercise, but if you want to base your decisions on statistical analysis or other quantifiable criteria, have at it. NOTE: Please leave the particular discussions on the DH position in the current threads on that topic.

I would like to see you base your decision on how effective a player will be in the real world, not by fantasy league standards. The player should be evaluated on his overall performance, which means offense, defense, and intangibles. The players are categorized according to the ESPN website depth charts. I do not claim or endorse their work as being accurate. Without further ado...

Ace Starter
1. Greinke
2. Peavy
3. Verlander
4. Baker
5. Westbrook

# 2 Starter
1. Buehrle
2. Porcello
3. Carmona
4. Slowey
5. Meche

# 3 Starter
1. Danks
2. Bonderman
3. Hochevar
4. Pavano
5. Masterson

# 4 Starter
1. Floyd
2. Blackburn
3. Scherzer
4. Davies
5. Huff

# 5 Starter
1. Liriano
2. Bannister
3. Garcia
4. Laffey
5. Robertson

Closer
1. Nathan
2. Soria
3. Jenks
4. Valverde
5. Wood

Remaining Bullpen
1. Detroit
2. Sox
3. Minny
4. KC
5. Cleveland

Catcher
1. Mauer
2. AJ
3. Laird
4. Marson
5. Kendall

First Base
1. Cabrera
2. Morneau
3. Konerko
4. LaPorta
5. Butler

Second Base
1. Beckham
2. Hudson
3. Callaspo
4. Sizemore
5. Valbuena

Third Base
1. Gordon
2. Teahan
3. Peralta
4. Inge
5. Punto

Shortstop
1. Hardy
2. Ramirez
3. Cabrera
4. Betancourt
5. Everett

Left Field
1. Kubel
2. Pierre
3. Damon
4. Podsednik
5. Brantley

Center Field
1. Sizemore
2. Span
3. Rios
4. Jackson
5. Ankiel

Right Field
1. Quentin
2. Cuddyer
3. Choo
4. Ordonez
5. DeJesus

Designated Hitter
1. Jose Guillen
2. Carlos Guillen
3. Jones
4. Thome
5. Hafner

mzh
02-22-2010, 08:19 PM
For the most part I agree, however I would maybe put TCM ahead of Hardy, TCQ ahead of Guillen, and I would probably put the Sox bullpen behind the twins and ahead of the Tiggers. Other than that, spot on.

asindc
02-22-2010, 08:20 PM
For the most part I agree, however I would maybe put TCM ahead of Hardy, TCQ ahead of Guillen, and I would probably put the Sox bullpen behind the twins and ahead of the Tiggers. Other than that, spot on.

Since I am basing this off of ESPN's depth charts, TCQ is considered for RF only while either Guillen is DH only.

doublem23
02-22-2010, 08:26 PM
And people call statistics mental masturbation.

DumpJerry
02-22-2010, 08:29 PM
42 days to OD.

asindc
02-22-2010, 08:31 PM
42 days to OD.

Guilty as charged.

mzh
02-22-2010, 08:35 PM
42 days to OD.
And all player statistical **** can be moved to the Sox Clubhouse :redneck

JohnTucker0814
02-22-2010, 09:32 PM
Since the various discussions of our DH position have sometimes focused on our strength at that position relative to other teams in the division, I think this might be a fun exercise:

For each position listed, choose who you would draft 1st if picking 1st, 2nd if picking 2nd, etc., among the AL Central starting lineups. This is not meant to be a purely analytical or scientific exercise, but if you want to base your decisions on statistical analysis or other quantifiable criteria, have at it. NOTE: Please leave the particular discussions on the DH position in the current threads on that topic.

I would like to see you base your decision on how effective a player will be in the real world, not by fantasy league standards. The player should be evaluated on his overall performance, which means offense, defense, and intangibles. The players are categorized according to the ESPN website depth charts. I do not claim or endorse their work as being accurate. Without further ado...


Remaining Bullpen
1. Sox
2. Minny
3. Detroit
4. KC
5. Cleveland

First Base
1. Cabrera
2. Morneau
3. Butler
4. Konerko
5. LaPorta

Third Base
1. Peralta
2. Inge
3. Gordon
4. Teahen
5. Punto/Harris

Shortstop
1. Ramirez
2. Cabrera
3. Hardy
4. Everett
5. Betancort

Left Field
1. Pierre
2. Damon
3. D. Young
4. Podsednik
5. Brantley

Center Field
1. Sizemore
2. Span
3. Rios
4. Jackson
5. Ankiel

Right Field
1. Choo
2. Quentin
3. Cuddyer
4. Ordonez
5. DeJesus

Designated Hitter
1. Kubel
2. Jose Guillen
3. Jones
4. Carlos Guillen
5. Hafner

Those are the changes I'd make to your projections. Kubel is the DH in Minny and Delmon Young in LF. Thome is a role player with limited playing time. Look at Choo's numbers and you'll be moving him ahead of Cuddyer and Quentin as well. JMO

asindc
02-22-2010, 09:40 PM
Those are the changes I'd make to your projections. Kubel is the DH in Minny and Delmon Young in LF. Thome is a role player with limited playing time. Look at Choo's numbers and you'll be moving him ahead of Cuddyer and Quentin as well. JMO

I know, but as my post says, I'm using ESPN's depth charts. It is possible Minny will start Kubel in LF (I'm actually hoping they do).

RichH55
02-23-2010, 10:41 PM
I'd also have Butler as # 3 overall for his position

Domeshot17
02-24-2010, 02:56 AM
This game is great for those of us who don't sleep.


Ace Starter
1. Greinke
2a. Verlander
2b. Peavy
4. Baker
5. Westbrook

**Note** I like Peavy a ton, But it came down to age and the fact we know Verlander can be fantastic in the AL, Peavy is a wild card.

# 2 Starter
1. Porcello
2. Buehrle
3. Slowey
4. Carmona
5. Meche

Very close, but 1 if I am making a team, Give me the young kid who projects to be a perennial all star coming off a solid rookie year making 400K over the steady number 2 making 14 mil. I love Burls, one of my all time favorites, but I have said since draft day I have had a hunch Porcello may go down as one of the 15 best in my lifetime, I stand by it. Burls is probably the right pick for this year upcoming, but if I am building a team, I just go with the hunch I have.

# 3 Starter
1. Danks
2. Bonderman
3. Hochevar
4. Pavano
5. Masterson

Pretty Easy

# 4 Starter
1. Floyd
2. Scherzer
3. Blackburn
4. Davies
5. Huff

VERY CLOSE HERE. Scherzer will be the choice next year. Kid has wicked stuff and pitching in that big ballpark, hes just the next Gavin Floyd

# 5 Starter
1. Liriano
2. Bannister
3. Garcia
4. Laffey
5. Robertson

They all suck, but Liriano has shown brilliance before. I may take Hudson over them all.

Closer
1. Jenks
2. Soria
3. Nathan
4. Valverde
5. Wood

May be crazy, I just have this feeling the newly focused Bobby Jenks is going to be the best closer in the AL this year. If he is that good as a fat out of shape drunk, how good can he be as a dedicated sober focused closer

Remaining Bullpen
1. Sox
2. Minny
3. Detroit
4. KC
5. Cleveland

Sox and Minny are a toss up. It all comes down to which JJ Putz do we get and which Pat Nesheck do they get

Catcher
1. Mauer
2. AJ
3. Laird
4. Marson
5. Kendall

This isn't even close.

First Base
1. Morneau
2. Cabrera
3. Konerko
4. LaPorta
5. Butler

Morneau is a winner, a leader, intense, great glove. Cabrera is a slugger

Second Base
1. Beckham
2. Hudson
3. Callaspo
4. Sizemore
5. Valbuena

Not even close. Beckham is a budding star.

Third Base
1. Gordon
2. Peralta
3. Inge
4. Teahen
5. Punto

Unimpressed by Teahen. Gordon has so much upside, its a week position, but Id take Inge's glove at a defensive position over Teahen. Plus itd be fun to hear Hawk talk about golfing with Inge and his legendary 350 yard drives

Shortstop
1. Hardy
2. Ramirez
3. Cabrera
4. Betancourt
5. Everett

This is going to be a steal for Minny. Hardy was an all star calibur player in Milwaukee. He is going to be great I think. Ramirez, if he can hit when its cold out, could be just as good.

Left Field
1. Kubel
2. Damon
3. Pierre
4. Podsednik
5. Brantley

Kubel busted out. Damons so steady and you know, he always wins. Pierre and Pods are just interchangable parts.

Center Field
1. Sizemore
2. Ankiel
3. Span
4. Rios
5. Jackson

This isn't even close for number 1, but give me Ankiels D and ARM in CF. I am not confident at all in Rios, his attitude, his work ethic, and his want to be a part of the this team.

Right Field
1. Cuddyer
2a Magglo
2b. Quentin
4. Choo
5. DeJesus

Cuddyer had a great year last year. Magglio is a lock to hit over .300 even if hes losing power. I figure with the team I have the power is there, give me the safe plays. I love Carlos, great player, but he is a career .250 hitter who has never had 1 500 AB season. I want the safe play here

Designated Hitter
1. Jose Guillen
2. Carlos Guillen
3. Thome
4. Hafner
5. Jones

The guillen's suck less than the other 3. Thome full time you know what you get. Hafner is like Jones, Physical Shape and Steroid Rumors.

asindc
02-24-2010, 03:58 PM
This game is great for those of us who don't sleep.


Ace Starter
1. Greinke
2a. Verlander
2b. Peavy
4. Baker
5. Westbrook

**Note** I like Peavy a ton, But it came down to age and the fact we know Verlander can be fantastic in the AL, Peavy is a wild card.

# 2 Starter
1. Porcello
2. Buehrle
3. Slowey
4. Carmona
5. Meche

Very close, but 1 if I am making a team, Give me the young kid who projects to be a perennial all star coming off a solid rookie year making 400K over the steady number 2 making 14 mil. I love Burls, one of my all time favorites, but I have said since draft day I have had a hunch Porcello may go down as one of the 15 best in my lifetime, I stand by it. Burls is probably the right pick for this year upcoming, but if I am building a team, I just go with the hunch I have.

# 3 Starter
1. Danks
2. Bonderman
3. Hochevar
4. Pavano
5. Masterson

Pretty Easy

# 4 Starter
1. Floyd
2. Scherzer
3. Blackburn
4. Davies
5. Huff

VERY CLOSE HERE. Scherzer will be the choice next year. Kid has wicked stuff and pitching in that big ballpark, hes just the next Gavin Floyd

# 5 Starter
1. Liriano
2. Bannister
3. Garcia
4. Laffey
5. Robertson

They all suck, but Liriano has shown brilliance before. I may take Hudson over them all.

Closer
1. Jenks
2. Soria
3. Nathan
4. Valverde
5. Wood

May be crazy, I just have this feeling the newly focused Bobby Jenks is going to be the best closer in the AL this year. If he is that good as a fat out of shape drunk, how good can he be as a dedicated sober focused closer

Remaining Bullpen
1. Sox
2. Minny
3. Detroit
4. KC
5. Cleveland

Sox and Minny are a toss up. It all comes down to which JJ Putz do we get and which Pat Nesheck do they get

Catcher
1. Mauer
2. AJ
3. Laird
4. Marson
5. Kendall

This isn't even close.

First Base
1. Morneau
2. Cabrera
3. Konerko
4. LaPorta
5. Butler

Morneau is a winner, a leader, intense, great glove. Cabrera is a slugger

Second Base
1. Beckham
2. Hudson
3. Callaspo
4. Sizemore
5. Valbuena

Not even close. Beckham is a budding star.

Third Base
1. Gordon
2. Peralta
3. Inge
4. Teahen
5. Punto

Unimpressed by Teahen. Gordon has so much upside, its a week position, but Id take Inge's glove at a defensive position over Teahen. Plus itd be fun to hear Hawk talk about golfing with Inge and his legendary 350 yard drives

Shortstop
1. Hardy
2. Ramirez
3. Cabrera
4. Betancourt
5. Everett

This is going to be a steal for Minny. Hardy was an all star calibur player in Milwaukee. He is going to be great I think. Ramirez, if he can hit when its cold out, could be just as good.

Left Field
1. Kubel
2. Damon
3. Pierre
4. Podsednik
5. Brantley

Kubel busted out. Damons so steady and you know, he always wins. Pierre and Pods are just interchangable parts.

Center Field
1. Sizemore
2. Ankiel
3. Span
4. Rios
5. Jackson

This isn't even close for number 1, but give me Ankiels D and ARM in CF. I am not confident at all in Rios, his attitude, his work ethic, and his want to be a part of the this team.

Right Field
1. Cuddyer
2a Magglo
2b. Quentin
4. Choo
5. DeJesus

Cuddyer had a great year last year. Magglio is a lock to hit over .300 even if hes losing power. I figure with the team I have the power is there, give me the safe plays. I love Carlos, great player, but he is a career .250 hitter who has never had 1 500 AB season. I want the safe play here

Designated Hitter
1. Jose Guillen
2. Carlos Guillen
3. Thome
4. Hafner
5. Jones

The guillen's suck less than the other 3. Thome full time you know what you get. Hafner is like Jones, Physical Shape and Steroid Rumors.

I really can't argue with most of the changes here.

1) I was torn between Peavy and Verlander for # 2. Your arguments for Verlander are quite valid and I have no problem with him going ahead of Peavy.

2) I need to see another season from Porcello before putting him ahead of Buehrle, but again, no strong argument here.

3) Scherzer is interesting to me. There are other folks like you who are very high on him. Makes me wonder why Ariz. traded him for Jackson. To the extent that Peavy has to prove his AL mettle, so it is I think with Scherzer. Not that Blackburn is that special, mind you.

4) I also have high hopes for Jenks with him recently getting in better shape. For now, though, I gotta put him third. I do think Soria could have a monster year and Nathan is starting to show signs of decline.

5) The Miguel Cabrera thing is interesting. He was one of the top five hitters in the AL last year while often drinking himself into a stupor. If he is off the sauce for real, we could see a Pujols-type year out of him. I also think Morneau is slowly breaking down from being rode like a mule the past two seasons.

6) Rios is an enigma, that's for sure.

7) If TCQ is healthy, I think he is the 4th-best hitter in the AL Central behind the big 3. I do understand why you put in 2b, though, based on your criteria.

Dub25
02-26-2010, 12:12 AM
Not bad but that Cabrera kid from Cleveland could be the best.

tm1119
02-26-2010, 04:42 PM
You're bias shows on some of our players. Cant say that I blame you, but some changes should be made if we are trying to keep it fair.

1. Pierre is not better than Damon. They will most likely hit for similar avg. and obp, but Damon has considerably more power. Pierre is slightly better in the field, but hes not great either so Damon still gets the nod.
2. Jones has to be last at the DH spot just based of the past 2 seasons numbers. Anything else is just pure bias that Jones will improve with the Sox.
3. Teahen should be behind both Peralta and Inge if you are going by the numbers. Both have been better recently and Teahen sucks in the field so there is no real argument there. And Gordon has the most potential out of any of them so he should be in the top 3 as well.
4. RF is debatable. Quentin probably has the potential to have the best season, but both Choo and Cuddyer are better bets at having at least a good season. Could go to any 3 of them really.

Everything else looks on point to me though.

asindc
02-26-2010, 05:32 PM
You're bias shows on some of our players. Cant say that I blame you, but some changes should be made if we are trying to keep it fair.

1. Pierre is not better than Damon. They will most likely hit for similar avg. and obp, but Damon has considerably more power. Pierre is slightly better in the field, but hes not great either so Damon still gets the nod.
2. Jones has to be last at the DH spot just based of the past 2 seasons numbers. Anything else is just pure bias that Jones will improve with the Sox.
3. Teahen should be behind both Peralta and Inge if you are going by the numbers. Both have been better recently and Teahen sucks in the field so there is no real argument there. And Gordon has the most potential out of any of them so he should be in the top 3 as well.
4. RF is debatable. Quentin probably has the potential to have the best season, but both Choo and Cuddyer are better bets at having at least a good season. Could go to any 3 of them really.

Everything else looks on point to me though.

You are most likely right about my bias, but as I compiled my list based on my 2010 projections for each player, I'll explain these choices. :

1. I'm looking at each player's contribution in total. With that in mind, I think Pierre is a significantly better defender. I also think Damon's numbers will suffer in Detroit, as he hit most of his HRs to RF last year.

2. I looked at Jones' production last year before his hamstring started bothering him combined with him reporting to ST in excellent shape as the basis for putting him third. Thome and Hafner are in rapid decline.

3. I don't think Teahan sucks in the field. I spend time on the motownsports.com site and believe me, Tigers fans don't share your optimistic view of Inge. Of course, I already have Gordon listed first among 3B.

4. Since I am basing this on 2010 projections, I don't project another injury-filled season for Quentin. When healthy, he is no doubt the best among the RFs IMO. Cuddyer's potential best is 85% of TCQ's potential best.

tm1119
02-26-2010, 07:58 PM
You are most likely right about my bias, but as I compiled my list based on my 2010 projections for each player, I'll explain these choices. :

1. I'm looking at each player's contribution in total. With that in mind, I think Pierre is a significantly better defender. I also think Damon's numbers will suffer in Detroit, as he hit most of his HRs to RF last year.

2. I looked at Jones' production last year before his hamstring started bothering him combined with him reporting to ST in excellent shape as the basis for putting him third. Thome and Hafner are in rapid decline.

3. I don't think Teahan sucks in the field. I spend time on the motownsports.com site and believe me, Tigers fans don't share your optimistic view of Inge. Of course, I already have Gordon listed first among 3B.

4. Since I am basing this on 2010 projections, I don't project another injury-filled season for Quentin. When healthy, he is no doubt the best among the RFs IMO. Cuddyer's potential best is 85% of TCQ's potential best.

1. Its hard to use a players stadium against them when ranking them head to head in my opinion. Damon is still going to be the better player regardless though. His power #'s will outweigh Pierre's speed, because Pierre has a notoriously low SB%. As I said, Pierre is still very average in the field himself. If Pierre was very good in LF I could see your point, but thats not the case.

2. I dont buy the whole being in shape = better hitter. He has been flat out bad at the plate the past few years. I dont think being 10 lbs lighter is somehow gonna make him see the ball and hit it better. And the reason he has been out of shape could very well be because he stopped using something. Just saying....

3. If Teahen doesnt suck in the field then hes bad. And which projections are you using? Just curious.

4. Point taken there. Like I said, didnt necessarily disagree with Quentin being 1 anyway.

asindc
02-26-2010, 08:52 PM
1. Its hard to use a players stadium against them when ranking them head to head in my opinion. Damon is still going to be the better player regardless though. His power #'s will outweigh Pierre's speed, because Pierre has a notoriously low SB%. As I said, Pierre is still very average in the field himself. If Pierre was very good in LF I could see your point, but thats not the case.

2. I dont buy the whole being in shape = better hitter. He has been flat out bad at the plate the past few years. I dont think being 10 lbs lighter is somehow gonna make him see the ball and hit it better. And the reason he has been out of shape could very well be because he stopped using something. Just saying....

3. If Teahen doesnt suck in the field then hes bad. And which projections are you using? Just curious.

4. Point taken there. Like I said, didnt necessarily disagree with Quentin being 1 anyway.

1. Of course, that is exactly what OPS+ is designed to do. Having Damon over Pierre is definitely more than plausible, I agree, but it is not as much as I think Pierre is that good defensively as much as I think Damon is that much more subpar.

2. His first half of last season was far from "flat out bad," it was actually good. For the record, he has lost 22 lbs. As far as PED usage, this has been noted by several different posters in other threads, but MLB started testing in 2003 and Jones had monster seasons in 2004 and 2005. He got lazy and fat, plain and simple, and he has said as much.

3. I'm not using any projections. Just comparing his play to others from what I have seen the past few years and using age, injury history, ballpark, etc, to project 2010 performance.