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View Full Version : The DH Rotation - an estimate...


voodoochile
02-20-2010, 11:43 PM
Here's my thinking on the breakdown of the DH platoon this coming season if there are no significant additions to the roster and no lost PT due to injury. I didn't include Catcher because Ozzie has proven unwilling to use the backup catcher as a DH.

I rounded to 160 games for simplicity sake I don't see the other two games being significant statistically. It's an approximation...

TCQ 50 DH 110 OF
PK 30 DH 130 1B
Beckham 10 DH 150 2B
TCM 10 DH 150 SS
Teahen 10 DH 150 3B
Nix 10 DH 10 2B
Pierre 10 DH 150 OF
Rios 10 DH 150 OF
Jones 20 DH 60 OF
Kotsay 10 OF 30 1B
Vizquel 10 3B 10 SS


If Jones gets hot they can start giving him or TCQ more DH AB and just give the other guys more days in the field and traditional days off. Beckham and TCM could probably start 158 games in the field and not struggle. They are young and atheltic. The same goes for Rios.

The key to this is that Ozzie wants to keep all of his starters in the lineup for as many games as he can and not burn them out. The DH slot is practically a day off compared to playing the field.

Again, whether it works, I don't know, but this is what I think Ozzie is shooting for this season.

Baron
02-20-2010, 11:46 PM
If Jones gets hot....thats a really big if

Dibbs
02-20-2010, 11:49 PM
It doesn't matter who the DH happens to be on a given night. The fact is Jones or Kotsay or some other bench player will be playing every day, although they shouldn't be.

voodoochile
02-21-2010, 12:01 AM
It doesn't matter who the DH happens to be on a given night. The fact is Jones or Kotsay or some other bench player will be playing every day, although they shouldn't be.

Those guys are going to see PT under Ozzie anyway. He likes to keep people fresh.

The idea is not to have to bench TCQ and PK 20 times apiece this year and lose their bats and force them to play extra innings in the field and get worn down in the process.

That's why he wants a rotation and not a regular 150 game DH.

Hitmen77
02-21-2010, 12:48 AM
Those guys are going to see PT under Ozzie anyway. He likes to keep people fresh.

The idea is not to have to bench TCQ and PK 20 times apiece this year and lose their bats and force them to play extra innings in the field and get worn down in the process.

That's why he wants a rotation and not a regular 150 game DH.

If TCQ plays 160 games this year (even with his share at DH), I'll be thrilled. A healthy Quentin will mean good things for the Sox. I'm hopeful that he'll have a great year, but I'm not ready to pencil him in for 160 games even if he gets his share of DH time.

As far as the DH rotation that Ozzie wants. I think it's great and will help keep much of our lineup more fresh.....assuming that we have a legitimate batter in that "rotated" DH spot. Barring any mid-season trades, the success of this is up to Jones.

voodoochile
02-21-2010, 12:57 AM
If TCQ plays 160 games this year (even with his share at DH), I'll be thrilled. A healthy Quentin will mean good things for the Sox. I'm hopeful that he'll have a great year, but I'm not ready to pencil him in for 160 games even if he gets his share of DH time.

As far as the DH rotation that Ozzie wants. I think it's great and will help keep much of our lineup more fresh.....assuming that we have a legitimate batter in that "rotated" DH spot. Barring any mid-season trades, the success of this is up to Jones.

That's a different issue. My point is, that's the goal. Injuries are going to happen. With players like TCQ the more rest you give them the more likely they are to make it through the entire season. With 50 or more starts at DH, if he stays healthy, TCQ should be able to play close to 160 games.

And yeah, the success or failure will ultimately be judged on how much production they get from that 9th bat (be that Jones or Kotsay or Nix). Heck, if Jones doesn't make it, perhaps they can get 30-40 starts from Nix at DH against LH pitchers.

Sargeant79
02-21-2010, 11:37 AM
It doesn't matter who the DH happens to be on a given night. The fact is Jones or Kotsay or some other bench player will be playing every day, although they shouldn't be.

Isn't that basically what has happened with Ozzie teams since he's been the manager? Whether it's at DH or some other spot, Ozzie rests the regulars all the time. At least this was, he spreads it out more.

sox1970
02-21-2010, 11:59 AM
I don't think we'll see Beckham, Rios, or Teahen doing much dh-ing. Probably none. If they're out of the lineup, it's for a day off.

I think Konerko may DH 25 games, Quentin 35, Kotsay 35, and Jones the rest, or until they make a trade. Most of this will depend on how much playing time Jones earns.

Putting Vizquel at DH was just crazy talk. If it happens more than once, I'd be surprised.

jamokes
02-21-2010, 12:54 PM
Let's hope Rios and Jones have decent years to where Ozzie can have flexiblity at DH.

guillen4life13
02-21-2010, 01:47 PM
This would be great in an ideal situation, but Ozzie likes to rest his guys a bit more than that.

During his tenure as manager, only once has a player played in 160+games (Cabrera in '08). Ozzie tends to max his players out at 155 or so. Part of this DH rotation, I think, is to give a little more rest and flexibility than just that.

voodoochile
02-21-2010, 01:50 PM
This would be great in an ideal situation, but Ozzie likes to rest his guys a bit more than that.

During his tenure as manager, only once has a player played in 160+games (Cabrera in '08). Ozzie tends to max his players out at 155 or so. Part of this DH rotation, I think, is to give a little more rest and flexibility than just that.

Yeah, I agree, but think that's why he wants a rotating DH to allow him to play his main guys more.

GoSox2K3
02-21-2010, 03:11 PM
That's a different issue. My point is, that's the goal. Injuries are going to happen. With players like TCQ the more rest you give them the more likely they are to make it through the entire season. With 50 or more starts at DH, if he stays healthy, TCQ should be able to play close to 160 games.

And yeah, the success or failure will ultimately be judged on how much production they get from that 9th bat (be that Jones or Kotsay or Nix). Heck, if Jones doesn't make it, perhaps they can get 30-40 starts from Nix at DH against LH pitchers.

:o: I don't care how much koolaid anyone is drinking; if Jayson Nix is going to be our DH for 40 games, it's going to be a long, frustrating season.

Get ready to do a lot of this into our beer--->:whiner:

The problem is that KW and OG have left a huge gaping hole in the heart of our lineup. I don't buy the retort some people have here that, if one player matters that much, then we're not that good to begin with. We'll shoot, with that logic, we may as well only fill out 8/9s of our lineup with passable players every year since one player isn't going to make a difference.

The way I see it, this whole "use our bench for DH" plan will only work out if Jones suddenly plays like it's 2005 or if the Sox can hang on long enough to land a slugger mid-season. The latter is really taking a chance that we'll be able to pull of such a trade if needed. People here talk like the Sox will snap their fingers in June and acquire A. Gonzalez.

voodoochile
02-21-2010, 03:26 PM
:o: I don't care how much koolaid anyone is drinking; if Jayson Nix is going to be our DH for 40 games, it's going to be a long, frustrating season.

Get ready to do a lot of this into our beer--->:whiner:

The problem is that KW and OG have left a huge gaping hole in the heart of our lineup. I don't buy the retort some people have here that, if one player matters that much, then we're not that good to begin with. We'll shoot, with that logic, we may as well only fill out 8/9s of our lineup with passable players every year since one player isn't going to make a difference.

The way I see it, this whole "use our bench for DH" plan will only work out if Jones suddenly plays like it's 2005 or if the Sox can hang on long enough to land a slugger mid-season. The latter is really taking a chance that we'll be able to pull of such a trade if needed. People here talk like the Sox will snap their fingers in June and acquire A. Gonzalez.

Depends if Nix can duplicate his .496 slg against LHP last year in 120+ AB.

Also, the bolded underlined part is as far from "logic" as I can imagine. To say that since one bat doesn't matter, all 9 bats don't matter is such a huge leap it's not worth discussing, and again, it's this over the top rhetoric that makes it hard to take the doom and gloom folks seriously.

guillen4life13
02-21-2010, 03:44 PM
:o: I don't care how much koolaid anyone is drinking; if Jayson Nix is going to be our DH for 40 games, it's going to be a long, frustrating season.

Get ready to do a lot of this into our beer--->:whiner:

The problem is that KW and OG have left a huge gaping hole in the heart of our lineup. I don't buy the retort some people have here that, if one player matters that much, then we're not that good to begin with. We'll shoot, with that logic, we may as well only fill out 8/9s of our lineup with passable players every year since one player isn't going to make a difference.

The way I see it, this whole "use our bench for DH" plan will only work out if Jones suddenly plays like it's 2005 or if the Sox can hang on long enough to land a slugger mid-season. The latter is really taking a chance that we'll be able to pull of such a trade if needed. People here talk like the Sox will snap their fingers in June and acquire A. Gonzalez.

They're probably not going to snap their fingers and get someone like Adrian Gonzalez. But they might snap their fingers and get someone like Luke Scott, Bobby Abreu, Adam Dunn, Brad Hawpe, Lance Berkman, Adam LaRoche, or Carlos Pena, depending on how division races are playing out.

russ99
02-21-2010, 10:11 PM
Depends if Nix can duplicate his .496 slg against LHP last year in 120+ AB.


Do we need to assume that Nix makes the team?

He's out of options, but do the Sox need two IF's on the bench considering Vizquel can play any IF position?

I'd think Viciedo could have a chance at a roster spot and could get a part of the DH mixture if he has a very good spring.

Craig Grebeck
02-21-2010, 10:13 PM
Do we need to assume that Nix makes the team?

He's out of options, but do the Sox need two IF's on the bench considering Vizquel can play any IF position?

I'd think Viciedo could have a chance at a roster spot and could get a part of the DH mixture if he has a very good spring.
Gah. The guy had two good months in AA. He's not making the team.

mzh
02-21-2010, 10:17 PM
Gah. The guy had two good months in AA. He's not making the team.
You know who else had 2 good months in AA before joining the team? Our starting second baseman.

Craig Grebeck
02-21-2010, 10:20 PM
You know who else had 2 good months in AA before joining the team? Our starting second baseman.
This is seriously the worst argument I've seen here in some time. Do I really need to run down the list of differences between Gordon and Dayan?

mzh
02-21-2010, 10:22 PM
This is seriously the worst argument I've seen here in some time. Do I really need to run down the list of differences between Gordon and Dayan?
This is seriously the most annoyingly literal post post I've seen here in some time. Of course I'm nto comparing Beckham to Daya, but I'm saying it's been done. Christ, is it that difficult not to take everything everyone says here 100% literally?

Craig Grebeck
02-21-2010, 10:45 PM
This is seriously the most annoyingly literal post post I've seen here in some time. Of course I'm nto comparing Beckham to Daya, but I'm saying it's been done. Christ, is it that difficult not to take everything everyone says here 100% literally?
I guess I mostly post things I believe, and don't just throw **** around without some sort of logic behind it.

Of course I know Gordon had two immensely good months of AA baseball. Did Dayan? Yes. Surrounded by some awful ones.

Edit: excuse me for panning the idea that a guy who hit for league average in AA is ready to fill the hole at DH.

voodoochile
02-21-2010, 11:20 PM
Do we need to assume that Nix makes the team?

He's out of options, but do the Sox need two IF's on the bench considering Vizquel can play any IF position?

I'd think Viciedo could have a chance at a roster spot and could get a part of the DH mixture if he has a very good spring.

I don't know why we would he assume he wouldn't.

Even with him there's still room for 12 pitchers.

I'd prefer Viciedo spent some time in AAA and proved he belonged before getting called up. If he doesn't make the team until September as part of the expansion or even 2011 it won't be a huge issue for me. Now if he earns a shot and then comes up and starts lighting things up, I'm fine with that too...:tongue:

GoSox2K3
02-21-2010, 11:54 PM
Also, the bolded underlined part is as far from "logic" as I can imagine. To say that since one bat doesn't matter, all 9 bats don't matter is such a huge leap it's not worth discussing, and again, it's this over the top rhetoric that makes it hard to take the doom and gloom folks seriously.

:scratch: But it's the supporters of the Kotsay/Jones DH plan who are using this logic. I see it being brought up time and again here on WSI - if the Sox are supposedly so dependent on a legitimate major league bat at DH for success in 2010, then we're not very good even with a good DH. It's said many times through the Damon threads.

You've got it backwards - it's this over the top rhetoric that makes it hard to take the "bench players as DH plan is perfectly fine" folks seriously.

Mohoney
02-22-2010, 12:11 AM
Do we need to assume that Nix makes the team?

He's out of options, but do the Sox need two IF's on the bench considering Vizquel can play any IF position?

If I had my way, Nix would start at 3B against LHP. An .822 OPS against LHP is nothing to sneeze at, even with the strikeouts. Vizquel should mostly play the middle IF positions anyway.

jabrch
02-22-2010, 12:58 AM
:scratch: But it's the supporters of the Kotsay/Jones DH plan who are using this logic.

Who exactly are "supporters" of this plan?

I see people saying that it isn't the end of the world - but I see nobody cheering for it...

I don't believe anybody was opposed to acquiring Damon - but if we couldn't get him at a price that made sense, or within budget, then we couldn't. So let's use that cash on the next best player who comes along - maybe that will be a better deal for this guy at the end... After all, for as good a player as Damon is, at Comerica he could easily be more like 2007 Damon .270/.350/.400 than 2009 Damon in New Yankee Stadium .282/.365/.489. If that's the case, that is what we may well end up getting from our current DHs, what we could have gotten if we wanted Thome or what we could get from Dye, all for less money than Damon.

Again - back to point, who are the supporters of this plan? I don't see it.

voodoochile
02-22-2010, 01:13 AM
Who exactly are "supporters" of this plan?

I see people saying that it isn't the end of the world - but I see nobody cheering for it...

I don't believe anybody was opposed to acquiring Damon - but if we couldn't get him at a price that made sense, or within budget, then we couldn't. So let's use that cash on the next best player who comes along - maybe that will be a better deal for this guy at the end... After all, for as good a player as Damon is, at Comerica he could easily be more like 2007 Damon .270/.350/.400 than 2009 Damon in New Yankee Stadium .282/.365/.489. If that's the case, that is what we may well end up getting from our current DHs, what we could have gotten if we wanted Thome or what we could get from Dye, all for less money than Damon.

Again - back to point, who are the supporters of this plan? I don't see it.

Exactly. I'm not jumping up and down over the current plan, but I don't think it's going to be nearly the problem some people are making it out to be.

HebrewHammer
02-22-2010, 06:57 AM
You know who else had 2 good months in AA before joining the team? Our starting second baseman.

http://billdunlap.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/facepalm.jpg

asindc
02-22-2010, 09:17 AM
Who exactly are "supporters" of this plan?

I see people saying that it isn't the end of the world - but I see nobody cheering for it...

I don't believe anybody was opposed to acquiring Damon - but if we couldn't get him at a price that made sense, or within budget, then we couldn't. So let's use that cash on the next best player who comes along - maybe that will be a better deal for this guy at the end... After all, for as good a player as Damon is, at Comerica he could easily be more like 2007 Damon .270/.350/.400 than 2009 Damon in New Yankee Stadium .282/.365/.489. If that's the case, that is what we may well end up getting from our current DHs, what we could have gotten if we wanted Thome or what we could get from Dye, all for less money than Damon.

Again - back to point, who are the supporters of this plan? I don't see it.

Exactly. I'm not jumping up and down over the current plan, but I don't think it's going to be nearly the problem some people are making it out to be.

You guys beat me to it.

GoGoCrede
02-22-2010, 02:14 PM
Never fear, everyone. Teahen has total faith in our offense! :smile::cool:

scottmerkin (http://twitter.com/scottmerkin)
Teahen on the White Sox attack: "Iím not sure itís saying a ton, but itís the best offense Iíve been a part of at the big league level."

/end thread