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View Full Version : He's a douche...and a steroid user...but would you take Sheffield?


jabrch
01-31-2010, 04:41 PM
...at the league minimum...in part of the platoon? I know we don't have a roster spot - but forget that for a moment.

Craig Grebeck
01-31-2010, 04:45 PM
.294/.375/.459 line against lefties last year, so probably.

TDog
01-31-2010, 04:49 PM
Fortunately, it's not up to you (or us).

The point is moot.

DumpJerry
01-31-2010, 04:58 PM
No.

Craig Grebeck
01-31-2010, 05:08 PM
Fortunately, it's not up to you (or us).

The point is moot.
****ing hell, this attitude pisses me off.

Yes, I think jabrch is aware that it's not up to him. Idle speculation, while pointless, can be entertaining, especially in the time of the year we reside in now.

october23sp
01-31-2010, 05:16 PM
Fortunately, it's not up to you (or us).

The point is moot.

Why did you join WSI if you aren't willing to have discussions like this?

Tragg
01-31-2010, 05:27 PM
right now, aye.
This is is an Ozzie strength: He doesn't put up with "douche" behavior. If he would join this team, it's highly likely he won't act like a jerk.
Ozzie's personality is a plus re tricky vets like Sheffield.

LITTLE NELL
01-31-2010, 05:34 PM
No way.

MarySwiss
01-31-2010, 05:36 PM
Nope.

getonbckthr
01-31-2010, 05:39 PM
Not a chance in hell.

GoGoCrede
01-31-2010, 05:40 PM
What's behind door #2?

Jpgr91
01-31-2010, 05:45 PM
What's behind door #2?

Mark Kotsay as the DH.

Domeshot17
01-31-2010, 05:58 PM
Mark Kotsay as the DH is a joke, a total joke, BUT, I could see Sheff and Ozzie coming to blows by may. Also, I really don't want our 2nd world series title to be compromised by a steroid user. Just get us a real, pound the ball, can move decently on the bases DH who can handle some field duty and I will be happy.

Rohan
01-31-2010, 06:14 PM
I'd consider it... I'd have a really tough time cheering for him. The only thing I like about his character is that he's called Scott Boras out for what he is. But even then, i'm not sure what background the two had. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/02/21/2008-02-21_exyankee_gary_sheffield_calls_super_agen.html

jamokes
01-31-2010, 06:26 PM
There has to be something better than Shef out there.

ernie14
01-31-2010, 06:44 PM
Why do you want a douche and a steroid user?

You're like those idiot Cub fans who want Sosa back.

Cub fans love Sosa. Come on, we don't need a douche and a steroid user.

Craig Grebeck
01-31-2010, 07:43 PM
Why do you want a douche and a steroid user?

You're like those idiot Cub fans who want Sosa back.

Cub fans love Sosa. Come on, we don't need a douche and a steroid user.
Well, if you're against PED you may have a hard time rooting for AJ's replacement.

DumpJerry
01-31-2010, 07:44 PM
Well, if you're against PED you may have a hard time rooting for AJ's replacement.
:scratch: and who would that be?

Craig Grebeck
01-31-2010, 07:46 PM
:scratch: and who would that be?
Tyler Flowers. He was busted for PED while in the Braves' organization.

For the record, I've got no problem signing former PED users -- so long as their performance wasn't dependent upon the PED.

Daver
01-31-2010, 07:48 PM
Well, if you're against PED you may have a hard time rooting for AJ's replacement.

I really doubt he will wear the tools at the MLB level.

Craig Grebeck
01-31-2010, 08:07 PM
I really doubt he will wear the tools at the MLB level.
Well, that was the scouting consensus up to 2009. The tide's shifting in that regard, so we'll see.

soxinem1
01-31-2010, 08:18 PM
Sure, I would be for signing Sheffield.....

When this happens:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/113830985_09f377146d.jpg

russ99
01-31-2010, 08:39 PM
I'd say no, and not due to PED or potential problems in the clubhouse.

I just think he's done. I also can't believe that some that dismiss Andruw as a non-factor would support Sheffield.

I'm all for the rotating DH to start the season, whoever that may end up as after Spring Training.

Kenny can get vastly better players in-season to fix any deficiencies than he can get at the bargain basement now.

Craig Grebeck
01-31-2010, 08:42 PM
I'd say no, and not due to PED or potential problems in the clubhouse.

I just think he's done. I also can't believe that some that dismiss Andruw as a non-factor would support Sheffield.

I'm all for the rotating DH to start the season, whoever that may end up as after Spring Training.

Kenny can get vastly better players in-season to fix any deficiencies than he can get at the bargain basement now.
Can you do me a favor Russ, please? Just look at what Sheffield did with the bat last season and look at what Jones did with the bat last season. So, who is done and who isn't? And no platitudes, please -- numbers and such, analysis, etc.

DumpJerry
01-31-2010, 08:51 PM
Can you do me a favor Russ, please? Just look at what Sheffield did with the bat last season and look at what Jones did with the bat last season. So, who is done and who isn't? And no platitudes, please -- numbers and such, analysis, etc.
And Russ, be sure to leave out what a total loser personality Sheff has and how he refuses to accept responsibility for any of his actions. If you do that, it would mess up Craig's paradigm.

thomas35forever
01-31-2010, 08:52 PM
I'll trade him for what's behind the curtain.

Craig Grebeck
01-31-2010, 08:52 PM
And Russ, be sure to leave out what a total loser personality Sheff has and how he refuses to accept responsibility for any of his actions. If you do that, it would mess up Craig's paradigm.
Come on, DJ. Russ said that Sheff was done. He drew a comparison to Andruw and said he couldn't believe people would dismiss Andruw but support Sheffield.

I know, Sheff is a douchebag. Duh. So is AJ. So are a lot of MLB players. So is Ozzie. Who cares?

DumpJerry
01-31-2010, 08:54 PM
Come on, DJ. Russ said that Sheff was done. He drew a comparison to Andruw and said he couldn't believe people would dismiss Andruw but support Sheffield.

I know, Sheff is a douchebag. Duh. So is AJ. So are a lot of MLB players. So is Ozzie. Who cares?
Sheff is done because nobody wants to deal with him. I'm glad we have someone here at WSI who is so intimately familiar with "a lot of" MLB players. I am humbled.

Craig Grebeck
01-31-2010, 08:56 PM
Sheff is done because nobody wants to deal with him. I'm glad we have someone here at WSI who is so intimately familiar with "a lot of" MLB players. I am humbled.
Dump, next time you jump into an argument, you should probably understand what's being argued. Russ wasn't saying that, and I'm not disputing that some teams out there are resisting Sheff because he's a giant douche. Russ was somehow insinuating that Jones showed more last season than Sheff, or at least there's reason for optimism, and I want to know why he would say that.

And I'm not saying I'm familiar with a lot of MLB players. I just think that a lot of people are dolts, and a similar, if not higher proportion of MLB players are similarly doltish. Is that really shocking?

tm1119
01-31-2010, 09:05 PM
Hes actually been a bit more productive than I thought after just checking his stats, but I think there are better options than him still available.

Blalock
Branyan
Garko
Brain Giles (? maybe)
G. Anderson
and even Dye are all = or better options at this point in my opinion.

soxinem1
01-31-2010, 09:07 PM
Dump, next time you jump into an argument, you should probably understand what's being argued. Russ wasn't saying that, and I'm not disputing that some teams out there are resisting Sheff because he's a giant douche. Russ was somehow insinuating that Jones showed more last season than Sheff, or at least there's reason for optimism, and I want to know why he would say that.

And I'm not saying I'm familiar with a lot of MLB players. I just think that a lot of people are dolts, and a similar, if not higher proportion of MLB players are similarly doltish. Is that really shocking?

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/hawk.jpg

'Heeeeeeeeeeere we go!!!!!'

soxinem1
01-31-2010, 09:14 PM
Hes actually been a bit more productive than I thought after just checking his stats, but I think there are better options than him still available.

Blalock
Branyan
Garko
Brain Giles (? maybe)
G. Anderson
and even Dye are all = or better options at this point in my opinion.

Is he the cheap LH 'power' hitter we are seeking??

spawn
01-31-2010, 09:16 PM
He's a ****ing doucebag that should not be allowed anywhere on a White Sox roster. Pass.

Brian26
01-31-2010, 09:26 PM
Fortunately, it's not up to you (or us).

The point is moot.

Hell, might as well shut this place down then. No point in being here.

Forget the fact that half the fun of popular sports is the arm-chair, Monday morning, everyone's-a-GM/manager/expert attitude that perpetuates fandom and makes sports fun to watch.

TornLabrum
01-31-2010, 10:34 PM
In your description of Sheffield, you forgot to mention "clubhouse cancer."

jabrch
01-31-2010, 10:47 PM
I rooted for Albert Belle. I could find a way to root for Sheff. I believe that the only Sox player I never rooted for was Jose Paniagua - because he never gave me anything to root for.

jabrch
01-31-2010, 10:51 PM
In your description of Sheffield, you forgot to mention "clubhouse cancer."

What has he done to clubhouses?

Craig Grebeck
01-31-2010, 11:03 PM
I'm also curious to know what he's done to clubhouses. It's been almost 20 years since he pulled that **** in Milwaukee.

goon
02-01-2010, 12:02 AM
I know, Sheff is a douchebag. Duh. So is AJ.

Not even in the same category. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

WhiteSox5187
02-01-2010, 12:38 AM
I'm also curious to know what he's done to clubhouses. It's been almost 20 years since he pulled that **** in Milwaukee.

I think he's been fairly despised just about everywhere he's gone. I know that not many people on the Marlins liked him and there few people who liked him on the Yankees.

GoGoCrede
02-01-2010, 12:44 AM
I think he's been fairly despised just about everywhere he's gone. I know that not many people on the Marlins liked him and there few people who liked him on the Yankees.

LOL, I remember in 2008 when he was on the Tigers and started a brawl with the Indians. I don't remember clearly, but I don't think too many of his teammates came to his defense. At any rate, it was fun seeing two teams go at each other in garbage time.

white sox bill
02-01-2010, 06:38 AM
I agree w/another poster, the point is moote. But my moote point is no thanks to Sheff.

Now back to life

g0g0
02-01-2010, 07:38 AM
Don't want a doper on a Sox team, no matter how good. A big emphatic NO.

guillensdisciple
02-01-2010, 08:46 AM
Not a chance, his production has not been the greatest in the past years on top of his douchy character.

russ99
02-01-2010, 08:47 AM
Can you do me a favor Russ, please? Just look at what Sheffield did with the bat last season and look at what Jones did with the bat last season. So, who is done and who isn't? And no platitudes, please -- numbers and such, analysis, etc.

Main reason - Sheffield is 40, Jones 33. And if you look at the numbers, then Sheffield had a year like Jones did last year in 2008, and bounced back to better numbers in 2009.

That's what I can't understand. I guess everyone's allowed to have a bounceback year but Jones for some reason.

Sam Spade
02-01-2010, 09:04 AM
Main reason - Sheffield is 40, Jones 33. And if you look at the numbers, then Sheffield had a year like Jones did last year in 2008, and bounced back to better numbers in 2009.

That's what I can't understand. I guess everyone's allowed to have a bounceback year but Jones for some reason.

Its because jones hasn't been good since 2006. It wouldn't just be a bonce back after a bad year.

jabrch
02-01-2010, 09:38 AM
Why do you want a douche and a steroid user?

You're like those idiot Cub fans who want Sosa back.

Cub fans love Sosa. Come on, we don't need a douche and a steroid user.


This is a fine post. You are a fine poster. Kudos to you sir.

TDog
02-01-2010, 11:04 AM
Why did you join WSI if you aren't willing to have discussions like this?

Sheffield isn't going to sign with the White Sox. The White Sox aren't going to sign Sheffield. Discuss it all you want. Be upset because you think the management is too cheap or whatever, but it isn't going to happen in this universe.

Sheffield is a man who intentionally misplayed balls in the outfield so that the Brewers would trade him. That isn't so different from throwing games for money. I wouldn't want Sheffield on my team. Fortunately, my team is run by people who agree with me on this point.

jabrch
02-01-2010, 11:29 AM
Sheffield isn't going to sign with the White Sox. The White Sox aren't going to sign Sheffield. Discuss it all you want. Be upset because you think the management is too cheap or whatever, but it isn't going to happen in this universe.

I don't think anyone was talking about cheap or not in this thread.

Sheffield is a man who intentionally misplayed balls in the outfield so that the Brewers would trade him. That isn't so different from throwing games for money. I wouldn't want Sheffield on my team. Fortunately, my team is run by people who agree with me on this point.

In the 22 years since this happened, he has been a career .300/.400/.500+ guy. Nobody has accused him of doing the same during that time period. I'm pretty sure I was clear in calling him a douche. But his ability to hit has never been in question. Even at his age, and without cream/clear/whatever, last year he was productive, in particular against LHP. I'm not saying we should go after him, or that he is likely to be significantly better than Andruw Jones - I can't see into the future. Just a name I hadn't seen thrown out here who might be a good fit for what we need.

Personally, I'd rather see us bring back JD or go after Damon. But if Sheff was signed, I'd find a way to treat him as well as I treated Albert Belle.

Craig Grebeck
02-01-2010, 12:00 PM
Main reason - Sheffield is 40, Jones 33. And if you look at the numbers, then Sheffield had a year like Jones did last year in 2008, and bounced back to better numbers in 2009.

That's what I can't understand. I guess everyone's allowed to have a bounceback year but Jones for some reason.
Jones has sucked for some time, as has been stated numerous times the last few weeks.

khan
02-01-2010, 12:48 PM
Main reason - Sheffield is 40, Jones 33.
Are you SURE Jones is 33? Or is he a "caribbean" 33 years old?

That's what I can't understand. I guess everyone's allowed to have a bounceback year but Jones for some reason.
Because Jones hasn't "bounced back" from the inclusion of a proper PED testing program.

Sheffield, for better or for worse, has been able to produce at a relatively high level since 2006.

soxinem1
02-01-2010, 01:22 PM
Sheffield, for better or for worse, has been able to produce at a relatively high level since 2006.

'Sheffield, you can't be serious??'

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_q4ggTMQcLgY/SmkBsdomy-I/AAAAAAAADv4/Lwl_3E4oqb0/s320/airplane.jpg

'I am serious.... And don't call me Sheffield!'

khan
02-01-2010, 02:34 PM
'Sheffield, you can't be serious??'
I'm speaking more towards how each player has performed since 2006.

Compared to Jones, Sheffield's numbers look a LOT better after 2006. Jones' numbers, OTOH, have fallen off a cliff since they started testing. Put two and two together.

I'm not suggesting that I would be in favor of the SOX signing Sheffield. But I think its likely that both players did use PEDs, and out of the two, Jones is the player that has performed at a lower level.

voodoochile
02-01-2010, 02:44 PM
I'm speaking more towards how each player has performed since 2006.

Compared to Jones, Sheffield's numbers look a LOT better after 2006. Jones' numbers, OTOH, have fallen off a cliff since they started testing. Put two and two together.

I'm not suggesting that I would be in favor of the SOX signing Sheffield. But I think its likely that both players did use PEDs, and out of the two, Jones is the player that has performed at a lower level.

Sheffield switched to HGH?

khan
02-01-2010, 03:21 PM
Sheffield switched to HGH?

Well played, sir.

However, as HGH is [currently] undetectable by known means, I naturally assume that most MLB players are already on HGH. For THAT matter, I assume that ALL former PED cheats are on HGH.

Therefore:

Since both Jones and Sheffield are probably on HGH now, when looking at their numbers since 2006, we can [probably] isolate their relative performances from current PED use.

soxinem1
02-01-2010, 04:13 PM
In the 22 years since this happened, he has been a career .300/.400/.500+ guy. Nobody has accused him of doing the same during that time period.

Are you kidding?? Have you watched anything concerning Sheffield in the past decade alone??

How about the issues he had with LAD (they didn't respect him), ATL (They do not want to pay me what I'm worth, IIRC), NYY (Torre is/was a racist), and DET (Leyland promised me I would be playing more in the field).

Even though the Tigers have made some bad moves, as all team have, if they were willing to bite $14 million for a guy about to hit 500 HR's and pay him to GO AWAY, that should tell you something about how well this guy blends in with his teams.

He's made nearly $170 million just in salary and still thinks everyone owes him the world.

**** him he's a prick!

Craig Grebeck
02-01-2010, 04:15 PM
Are you kidding?? Have you watched anything concerning Sheffield in the past decade alone??

How about the issues he had with LAD (they didn't respect him), ATL (They do not want to pay me what I'm worth, IIRC), NYY (Torre is/was a racist), and DET (Leyland promised me I would be playing more in the field).

Even though the Tigers have made some bad moves, as all team have, if they were willing to bite $14 million for a guy about to hit 500 HR's and pay him to GO AWAY, that should tell you something about how well this guy blends in with his teams.

He's made nearly $170 million just in salary and still thinks everyone owes him the world.

**** him he's a prick!
Eh, I'd take him. There were reports that AJ kneed a trainer in the groin, and I don't have a problem rooting for him -- and I see that as way worse than anything listed here.

spawn
02-01-2010, 04:20 PM
Are you kidding?? Have you watched anything concerning Sheffield in the past decade alone??

How about the issues he had with LAD (they didn't respect him), ATL (They do not want to pay me what I'm worth, IIRC), NYY (Torre is/was a racist), and DET (Leyland promised me I would be playing more in the field).

Even though the Tigers have made some bad moves, as all team have, if they were willing to bite $14 million for a guy about to hit 500 HR's and pay him to GO AWAY, that should tell you something about how well this guy blends in with his teams.

He's made nearly $170 million just in salary and still thinks everyone owes him the world.

**** him he's a prick!

Eh, I'd take him. There were reports that AJ kneed a trainer in the groin, and I don't have a problem rooting for him -- and I see that as way worse than anything listed here.
You keep bringing up AJ, but what in his time with the White Sox has given you the impression he's the clubhous cancer and malcontent that Gary Sheffield is? The best you can come up with is reports that AJ kneed a trainer in the groin? Really? That's some seriously weak **** right there.

Craig Grebeck
02-01-2010, 04:22 PM
You keep bringing up AJ, but what in his time with the White Sox has given you the impression he's the clubhous cancer and malcontent that Gary Sheffield is? The best you can come up with is reports that AJ kneed a trainer in the groin? Really? That's some seriously weak **** right there.
Whining like a baby when there's any talk of a more active backup, calling into the Score, etc. I don't know, he seems like a ****. I don't really have a problem rooting for him on the field, though. Lots of people are idiots, lots of players are idiots, etc. What Sheffield's done isn't much, in my opinion.

DumpJerry
02-01-2010, 04:22 PM
You keep bringing up AJ, but what in his time with the White Sox has given you the impression he's the clubhous cancer and malcontent that Gary Sheffield is? The best you can come up with is reports that AJ kneed a trainer in the groin? Really? That's some seriously weak **** right there.
...not to mention the fact that the story has been denied by AJ and the trainer and witnesses cannot be located.

Craig Grebeck
02-01-2010, 04:23 PM
...not to mention the fact that the story has been denied by AJ and the trainer and witnesses cannot be located.
Wait, so you're telling me AJ denied kneeing a defenseless man in the groin? Get out of town!

Edit: I'm not saying it happened, but come on.

DumpJerry
02-01-2010, 04:24 PM
Whining like a baby when there's any talk of a more active backup, calling into the Score, etc. I don't know, he seems like a ****. I don't really have a problem rooting for him on the field, though. Lots of people are idiots, lots of players are idiots, etc. What Sheffield's done isn't much, in my opinion.
Ok, I mentioned it earlier in this thread, I'll do it again. Sheff refuses to accept responsibility for his actions. He blames others when things don't work out his way. He has even gone as far to play the race card when other Aftrican-American players on his team feel that they are given a fair break from management.

DumpJerry
02-01-2010, 04:26 PM
Wait, so you're telling me AJ denied kneeing a defenseless man in the groin? Get out of town!

Edit: I'm not saying it happened, but come on.
The trainer allegedly involved denies it happened.:rolleyes:

Were you there when it happened? Did you witness it?

spawn
02-01-2010, 04:26 PM
Whining like a baby when there's any talk of a more active backup, calling into the Score, etc. I don't know, he seems like a ****. I don't really have a problem rooting for him on the field, though. Lots of people are idiots, lots of players are idiots, etc. What Sheffield's done isn't much, in my opinion.
So in other words, you just don't like him, so he's just as bad as Sheffield. Then to back up your dislike, you post a story that has been denied by both parties involved. That's a hell of a convincing argument you've got there.

Craig Grebeck
02-01-2010, 04:26 PM
Ok, I mentioned it earlier in this thread, I'll do it again. Sheff refuses to accept responsibility for his actions. He blames others when things don't work out his way. He has even gone as far to play the race card when other Aftrican-American players on his team feel that they are given a fair break from management.
Yeah, I know. I've read about Sheff for years now, he's pretty abrasive. Between the lines, he can still do it though. And a team as short on offensive talent as ours shouldn't be troubled by much at this point, save some Elijah Dukes-esque behavior.

voodoochile
02-01-2010, 04:28 PM
Well played, sir.

However, as HGH is [currently] undetectable by known means, I naturally assume that most MLB players are already on HGH. For THAT matter, I assume that ALL former PED cheats are on HGH.

Therefore:

Since both Jones and Sheffield are probably on HGH now, when looking at their numbers since 2006, we can [probably] isolate their relative performances from current PED use.

Hold on, Jones was never mentioned or at least hasn't been named has he? Maybe he's one of the rare clean ones? Not that it matters from a production standpoint. If he can't produce he won't help the team win. He had a productive first half last year then fell off the planet second half, but someone said he was struggling with a hammy injury. If that's the case, the issue becomes can he stay healthy?

I'm not big on the idea of signing Sheffield, but I won't boo him if KW decides to do it. I prefer a clean game, but I suppose I'll have to settle for as clean as they can make it.

Oh and there is a test for HGH, but it has to pretty much be administered daily or within hours after the competition, so the players would have to be tested almost daily and that ain't never gonna happen...

soxinem1
02-01-2010, 04:49 PM
Wait, so you're telling me AJ denied kneeing a defenseless man in the groin? Get out of town!

Edit: I'm not saying it happened, but come on.

Even if it did happen, this PALES in comparison to the **** Sheffield has pulled. He is Milton Bradley's mentor!!!

And to even compare AJ to him is insulting.

AJ is the guy teams love to hate, but would love to have him on their teams.

Sheffield is the guy teams hate to have on their teams, and pay him $14 million to take a hike.

Big, big difference.

white sox bill
02-01-2010, 04:49 PM
Well played, sir.

However, as HGH is [currently] undetectable by known means, I naturally assume that most MLB players are already on HGH. For THAT matter, I assume that ALL former PED cheats are on HGH.

Therefore:

Since both Jones and Sheffield are probably on HGH now, when looking at their numbers since 2006, we can [probably] isolate their relative performances from current PED use.
Except everyone who takes GH for muscle enhancement is likely taking anabolics too. Steroids by themselves work good. Steroids w/GH work much better however GH alone is pretty worthless for muscle building

jabrch
02-01-2010, 04:55 PM
Even if it did happen, this PALES in comparison to the **** Sheffield has pulled. He is Milton Bradley's mentor!!!

Can you specifically tell me what you are referring to - and start after he left the Brewers please. I honestly don't know what specific events you are talking about.

khan
02-01-2010, 05:22 PM
Hold on, Jones was never mentioned or at least hasn't been named has he? Maybe he's one of the rare clean ones?
Sure. Do you really believe this? That he "magically" started to lose all ability to play baseball in 2006? [When he was all of 29 years old, or roughly when the rest of the non-PED users peak in their abilities, BTW.]


I'm not big on the idea of signing Sheffield, but I won't boo him if KW decides to do it. I prefer a clean game, but I suppose I'll have to settle for as clean as they can make it.
Agreed.

Oh and there is a test for HGH, but it has to pretty much be administered daily or within hours after the competition, so the players would have to be tested almost daily and that ain't never gonna happen...
So do you think that would be a deterrent to the former PED cheats?

No? OK, so that is highly suggestive that everyone that CAN use it probably IS using it, due to an utter lack of deterrence.

khan
02-01-2010, 05:24 PM
Except everyone who takes GH for muscle enhancement is likely taking anabolics too. Steroids by themselves work good. Steroids w/GH work much better however GH alone is pretty worthless for muscle building
So in other words:

You're suggesting that since there is no effective test for HGH, players are probably using it, together with steroids that have yet to be detected?

TDog
02-01-2010, 05:43 PM
...
In the 22 years since this happened, he has been a career .300/.400/.500+ guy. Nobody has accused him of doing the same during that time period. I'm pretty sure I was clear in calling him a douche. But his ability to hit has never been in question. Even at his age, and without cream/clear/whatever, last year he was productive, in particular against LHP. I'm not saying we should go after him, or that he is likely to be significantly better than Andruw Jones - I can't see into the future. Just a name I hadn't seen thrown out here who might be a good fit for what we need. ...

His statistics are irrelevant. No one should sign him. Sheffield has character issues that transcend acting like a jerk, or even a cheater. They even transcend his lack of desire to win.

Speaking of Albert Belle, Gary Sheffield was to blame (or thank, if you prefer) for Belle becoming a free agent before his contract was up with the White Sox. Belle had a clause in his contract that gave him free agency if he didn't remain among the three highest-paid players in baseball. The clause kicked in because Sheffield, after implying that he wanted the Marlins to trade him, demanded something like $7 million to waive his no-trade clause and accept the deal the Marlins worked out with the Dodgers. The deal pushed Belle out of the top three highest-paid players. Belle, as it turned out wanted to continue playing for the White Sox, but the White Sox weren't interested in his continued services.

Fortunately, the Sheffield point, as it pertains to the White Sox, is moot because the White Sox wouldn't consider signing him and he wouldn't continue signing for the White Sox.

soxinem1
02-01-2010, 10:18 PM
Can you specifically tell me what you are referring to - and start after he left the Brewers please. I honestly don't know what specific events you are talking about.

Check my earlier post in this thread, and others. That should give you a good history.:smile:

Domeshot17
02-01-2010, 10:22 PM
I could be wrong but isn't Andruw Jones basically on the Sosa side of steroids (before the last year), 9000 rumors hes in the mitchell report, no confirmation as of yet?

jabrch
02-01-2010, 10:26 PM
Check my earlier post in this thread, and others. That should give you a good history.:smile:

are you talking about this? "How about the issues he had with LAD (they didn't respect him), ATL (They do not want to pay me what I'm worth, IIRC), NYY (Torre is/was a racist), and DET (Leyland promised me I would be playing more in the field)."

Sorry - that doesn't cut it for me. Nothing there leads me to the conclusion that he is that terrible. I'm looking for anything specific...

Craig Grebeck
02-01-2010, 10:29 PM
are you talking about this? "How about the issues he had with LAD (they didn't respect him), ATL (They do not want to pay me what I'm worth, IIRC), NYY (Torre is/was a racist), and DET (Leyland promised me I would be playing more in the field)."

Sorry - that doesn't cut it for me. Nothing there leads me to the conclusion that he is that terrible. I'm looking for anything specific...
I'm with jabrch, which feels weird to say. Do you feel dirty, jabs? If so, I'm sorry.

Craig Grebeck
02-01-2010, 10:33 PM
Dial back the personal stuff, Craig.
That's not personal. Jabrch and I never see eye to eye, and I'm just saying it's peculiar.

Jabrch and I rarely get to exchange kind pleasantries. It feels nice, honestly.

DumpJerry
02-01-2010, 10:35 PM
That's not personal. Jabrch and I never see eye to eye, and I'm just saying it's peculiar.

Jabrch and I rarely get to exchange kind pleasantries. It feels nice, honestly.
Actually, after reading your post again, I realize I misread it and deleted my post..........

khan
02-02-2010, 11:07 AM
I could be wrong but isn't Andruw Jones basically on the Sosa side of steroids (before the last year), 9000 rumors hes in the mitchell report, no confirmation as of yet?
This is true.

What I can't fathom is how a player of his [former] level of perfomance would suddenly become craptacular at 29 or 30 years of age. That is, short of a devastating injury, or a gross understatement of his age at the beginning of his career.

In either case, him performing at the level he's been at, POST-PED testing, is both uncanny and unfortunate for our SOX.

Zisk77
02-02-2010, 12:45 PM
This is true.

What I can't fathom is how a player of his [former] level of perfomance would suddenly become craptacular at 29 or 30 years of age. That is, short of a devastating injury, or a gross understatement of his age at the beginning of his career.

In either case, him performing at the level he's been at, POST-PED testing, is both uncanny and unfortunate for our SOX.

A little encounter I had with Andruw Jones in ATL. might lend some insight. I was at a night club in ATL having a good time one saturday, summer night. It was about 3:30 a.m and i went to a somewhat remote bar in the club to get another drink before last call and who do I see? Yep, Andruw Jones drink in hand ready to get another. Problem was The braves were playing a Sunday day game at noon. I went to that game and Andruw had a hr, a triple, a bunch of RBI's and made a great catch in CF.

Now, was that night and aberration or the norm? If the latter then I could see how his skills eroded so quickly. We do know he got fat. I also heard he was a regular at the Gold club where that scandal occured with Pat Ewing and other NBA players with strippers/prostitutes.

khan
02-02-2010, 12:57 PM
A little encounter I had with Andruw Jones in ATL. might lend some insight. I was at a night club in ATL having a good time one saturday, summer night. It was about 3:30 a.m and i went to a somewhat remote bar in the club to get another drink before last call and who do I see? Yep, Andruw Jones drink in hand ready to get another. Problem was The braves were playing a Sunday day game at noon. I went to that game and Andruw had a hr, a triple, a bunch of RBI's and made a great catch in CF.

Now, was that night and aberration or the norm? If the latter then I could see how his skills eroded so quickly. We do know he got fat. I also heard he was a regular at the Gold club where that scandal occured with Pat Ewing and other NBA players with strippers/prostitutes.

OK, that MIGHT explain a slump or two. It MIGHT even explain him having a "down year."

But, IMO, that doesn't explain the fall off a cliff and subsequent permanent residency in crappsville since 2006 in terms of his performance. It doesn't explain a drop in OPS from .894 to .724 to .505, then a minor uptick to .782 in a limited role last season. [These OPS numbers make me feel even worse about the stupid DH platoon, BTW.]

A party lifestyle might have led to a "down year," but surely even the most lax of players might have been woken up after one such season. I mean, the guy hasn't even batted >.250 in the past 3 seasons. This, at an age [30 through 32] when most hitters perform at their peak.

russ99
02-02-2010, 06:33 PM
OK, that MIGHT explain a slump or two. It MIGHT even explain him having a "down year."

But, IMO, that doesn't explain the fall off a cliff and subsequent permanent residency in crappsville since 2006 in terms of his performance. It doesn't explain a drop in OPS from .894 to .724 to .505, then a minor uptick to .782 in a limited role last season. [These OPS numbers make me feel even worse about the stupid DH platoon, BTW.]

A party lifestyle might have led to a "down year," but surely even the most lax of players might have been woken up after one such season. I mean, the guy hasn't even batted >.250 in the past 3 seasons. This, at an age [30 through 32] when most hitters perform at their peak.

It's pretty simple. the guy let himself go physically, which not only increases the chances of injury, but lengthens recovery time.

If he comes to camp in shape, I'm pretty confident he'll have a decent season in a "fresh start" situation with none of the pressures that come with a large salary. Granted, we're not talking Andruw Jones of 2005, but more in line of what he did last time he got regular at-bats in 2007 with a slightly higher average.

If he comes to camp out of shape, I'd give him 60-40 chances of being released.

Zisk77
02-02-2010, 07:11 PM
OK, that MIGHT explain a slump or two. It MIGHT even explain him having a "down year."

But, IMO, that doesn't explain the fall off a cliff and subsequent permanent residency in crappsville since 2006 in terms of his performance. It doesn't explain a drop in OPS from .894 to .724 to .505, then a minor uptick to .782 in a limited role last season. [These OPS numbers make me feel even worse about the stupid DH platoon, BTW.]

A party lifestyle might have led to a "down year," but surely even the most lax of players might have been woken up after one such season. I mean, the guy hasn't even batted >.250 in the past 3 seasons. This, at an age [30 through 32] when most hitters perform at their peak.


Agreed.

I didn't mean to imply his possible party life style was the sole reason for his preciptious drop, but a contributing factor.

I'm sure age, PED dependency, etc also factored in.

Now he says he's in great shape. What scares me is that Chicago food is way better than Atlanta food. Try finding a good cchinese restaurant in GA.:tongue:

khan
02-03-2010, 09:39 AM
It's pretty simple. the guy let himself go physically, which not only increases the chances of injury, but lengthens recovery time.

If he comes to camp in shape, I'm pretty confident he'll have a decent season in a "fresh start" situation with none of the pressures that come with a large salary. Granted, we're not talking Andruw Jones of 2005, but more in line of what he did last time he got regular at-bats in 2007 with a slightly higher average.

If he comes to camp out of shape, I'd give him 60-40 chances of being released.
Again, I might be inclined to believe this if this were a one year sort of occurrence. I might even be inclined to believe this if the SOX were the first team to take a flier on this guy. I might even buy the "pressure" angle, if he were a younger guy, who is new to MLB, to public life, and to big money.

But his ****tifying performance is a FOUR YEAR TREND. And the SOX aren't the first team to try to "fix him." And he's been in the bigs since 1996.

Usually, the simplest explanation is more likely to be true, instead of a contorted line of reasoning. It's much more likely that he'd been a PED cheat [EDIT] or older than his stated age than he was "under pressure" after 10 seasons in the league and/or "out of shape" for four years. Hell, even a drunk like Miguel Cabrera can still hit, and the only thing he's lifted since he made it to the bigs are beer or hard liquor.

soxinem1
02-03-2010, 11:10 AM
are you talking about this? "How about the issues he had with LAD (they didn't respect him), ATL (They do not want to pay me what I'm worth, IIRC), NYY (Torre is/was a racist), and DET (Leyland promised me I would be playing more in the field)."

Sorry - that doesn't cut it for me. Nothing there leads me to the conclusion that he is that terrible. I'm looking for anything specific...

I cannot understand why some of you guys want to add players based on what they did in the PAST, and overlook the drama they have caused over the course of their careers.

He's ripped three well-respected managers in the press, and as Dump pointed out, alway has an excuse for why he is such a tool. He's always the victim, misunderstood, etc. What BS.

Sheffield has burned his bridges in almost every town he has played in, except maybe for SD.

Do we really need the problem of an over-the-hill PED guy who's act runs thin in no time on virtually every team he has played on? Give me a break.

I wish CLE or someone would sign him already so the small possibility of him coming here can be squashed.

swisherfan
02-03-2010, 11:41 AM
agree TDog,

We have enough base-clogging guys on this team.....while I would like to see a full time DH, Sheffield isn't the answer.....I hope I am wrong but Jones may not make the 25 man roster......pay him the 500K and cut him, I just think this guy has seen his better days.....strikes out way too much, and his defense has slipped a lot, he isn't a gold glove anymore,

Zisk77
02-03-2010, 11:51 AM
I cannot understand why some of you guys want to add players based on what they did in the PAST, and overlook the drama they have caused over the course of their careers.

He's ripped three well-respected managers in the press, and as Dump pointed out, alway has an excuse for why he is such a tool. He's always the victim, misunderstood, etc. What BS.

Sheffield has burned his bridges in almost every town he has played in, except maybe for SD.

Do we really need the problem of an over-the-hill PED guy who's act runs thin in no time on virtually every team he has played on? Give me a break.

I wish CLE or someone would sign him already so the small possibility of him coming here can be squashed.


Baseball accountants can't find a stat for being a clubhouse cancer, so the debate continues.:scratch:

soxinem1
02-03-2010, 01:09 PM
A little encounter I had with Andruw Jones in ATL. might lend some insight. I was at a night club in ATL having a good time one saturday, summer night. It was about 3:30 a.m and i went to a somewhat remote bar in the club to get another drink before last call and who do I see? Yep, Andruw Jones drink in hand ready to get another. Problem was The braves were playing a Sunday day game at noon. I went to that game and Andruw had a hr, a triple, a bunch of RBI's and made a great catch in CF.

Now, was that night and aberration or the norm? If the latter then I could see how his skills eroded so quickly. We do know he got fat. I also heard he was a regular at the Gold club where that scandal occured with Pat Ewing and other NBA players with strippers/prostitutes.

No, he went out that night with the pitchers from the opposing team and got them wasted!!!!:D:

PalehosePlanet
02-03-2010, 01:35 PM
agree TDog,

We have enough base-clogging guys on this team.....while I would like to see a full time DH, Sheffield isn't the answer.....I hope I am wrong but Jones may not make the 25 man roster......pay him the 500K and cut him, I just think this guy has seen his better days.....strikes out way too much, and his defense has slipped a lot, he isn't a gold glove anymore,

We do? Is it still 2008?

Craig Grebeck
02-03-2010, 04:35 PM
I think saying we have "base-cloggers" on a team that may challenge for the worst OBP in baseball is a stretch.