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View Full Version : Gordon's Home and Away Splits


OzzieBall2004
01-30-2010, 07:45 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=beckhgo01&year=&t=b

Can anyone explain why Beckham was so bad at home? I know August was his worst month, so maybe he was just horrid at home for those 15 games? I know there aren't any guarantees, but if he can get his home splits more in line with the impressive totals he put up on the road he could easily exceed the production we're all hoping for and expecting from him in 2010.

Sorry...this thread is pretty pointless, but all I'm saying is he could put up MVP caliber numbers and carry this club if he meets his road stats from 2009 over 600 PA's.

Rdy2PlayBall
01-30-2010, 07:49 PM
Probably being a rookie and the huge crowed being in love with him. I'm sure he'll get used to it. The first games did hurt him though... It's probably no big deal IMO.

asindc
01-30-2010, 08:43 PM
I also think Beckham's approach produces more line drive gap hits than we are used to seeing. The new Comiskey's power alleys are smaller than many other parks, so he will probably see fewer doubles and triples at home than on the road.

DumpJerry
01-30-2010, 08:44 PM
Oh.....maybe it was because he started something like 0-13 or something like that and they were all home games?

Gotta love stats.

Waysouthsider
01-30-2010, 09:08 PM
Oh.....maybe it was because he started something like 0-13 or something like that and they were all home games?

Gotta love stats.


Not enough cases to influence the overall analysis. Statistics just describe the data in an objective way rather than a subjective one.

TDog
01-30-2010, 09:29 PM
Not enough cases to influence the overall analysis. Statistics just describe the data in an objective way rather than a subjective one.

You didn't need to see his stats to see that after thriving hitting down in the order, he struggled after moving to the No. 2 spot. He isn't a very good No. 2 hitter. He never even bunted in his life before signing with the White Sox. (Neither did Ramirez, who didn't even play in the Sox farm system before coming up, but Ramirez was a better No. 2 hitter than Beckham.

There were five road parks where Beckham hit less than .200. He was pretty bad in six games at Safeco Field -- worse than he was at U.S. Cellular.

shes
01-31-2010, 12:40 AM
I'm pretty sure I remember him saying that he was extremely nervous playing in front of the home crowd for a while.

Stats bear that out.

Waysouthsider
01-31-2010, 09:59 AM
You didn't need to see his stats to see that after thriving hitting down in the order, he struggled after moving to the No. 2 spot. He isn't a very good No. 2 hitter. He never even bunted in his life before signing with the White Sox. (Neither did Ramirez, who didn't even play in the Sox farm system before coming up, but Ramirez was a better No. 2 hitter than Beckham.

There were five road parks where Beckham hit less than .200. He was pretty bad in six games at Safeco Field -- worse than he was at U.S. Cellular.


I don't disagree with any of this....the two slot is not his best option...

Dibbs
01-31-2010, 10:29 AM
He did start off slow, and if all those games were at home that is one reason. I also heard him say something along the lines of he was trying too hard at home because he wanted to impress the fans.

gobears1987
01-31-2010, 12:01 PM
I blame his choice of music.

oeo
01-31-2010, 01:06 PM
You didn't need to see his stats to see that after thriving hitting down in the order, he struggled after moving to the No. 2 spot. He isn't a very good No. 2 hitter. He never even bunted in his life before signing with the White Sox. (Neither did Ramirez, who didn't even play in the Sox farm system before coming up, but Ramirez was a better No. 2 hitter than Beckham.

There were five road parks where Beckham hit less than .200. He was pretty bad in six games at Safeco Field -- worse than he was at U.S. Cellular.

You don't think this at all was coincidence? It was the end of his first professional season. It doesn't seem very odd that he would tail off a bit.

I don't remember many times that Gordon was actually asked to lay down a bunt. He has the best bat control on the team, which makes him fine as a #2 hitter. He was moved up, IIRC, when Alexei was hurt. Alexei wasn't gone very long, and Beckham was still playing well while batting second. He just tailed off later in the month of August.

BleacherBandit
01-31-2010, 01:42 PM
He did have some of his greatest moments at home, however. The walk-off against the Cubs, his first hit, right?

DumpJerry
01-31-2010, 02:05 PM
He did have some of his greatest moments at home, however. The walk-off against the Cubs, his first hit, right?
No. He hit a single for his first hit June 9th against the Tigers.

RichFitztightly
01-31-2010, 02:34 PM
He did have some of his greatest moments at home, however. The walk-off against the Cubs, his first hit, right?

I know his first RBI was a double against the Brewers that Saturday Fox game at Milwaukee.

TDog
01-31-2010, 02:56 PM
You don't think this at all was coincidence? It was the end of his first professional season. It doesn't seem very odd that he would tail off a bit.

I don't remember many times that Gordon was actually asked to lay down a bunt. He has the best bat control on the team, which makes him fine as a #2 hitter. He was moved up, IIRC, when Alexei was hurt. Alexei wasn't gone very long, and Beckham was still playing well while batting second. He just tailed off later in the month of August.

I don't believe it was just a coincidence, which I will explain in the next paragraph. I also don't believe Beckham has the best bat control on the team. Beckham has more potential as a hitter than anyone produced through the White Sox system in many years, but there his demonstrated abilities don't match the mythology you see on this site.

Last season when people here wanted Beckham moved up in the lineup to the No. 2 position after he found success near the bottom of the order, I posted that his batting average would drop, in large part because pitchers would pitch him differently. The reason would be twofold. If he is batting second behind a successful leadoff man (and Podsednik was a successful leadoff man) it would follow that pitchers would pitch him differently. Additionally, teams would focus more on Beckham as an offensive threat, speeding up the adjustments their adjustments to hm. Some people would add that there is additional pressure in the No. 2 spot, but I have no reason to believe that was a factor. I agree that Beckham was bound to fall off late in his rookie year as pitchers adjusted to him, but pitchers adjusted to him sooner because he was moved to the No. 2 spot.

Guillen believes in bunting runners along, of course. I do not. (I believe sacrificing diminishes a team's chances of scoring in most situations.) The coaches Beckham played for before turning pro did not believe he should be bunting to move runners along. A a rookie, Beckham bunted four times and had just one sacrifice. I don't know how many times he was bunting to reach base and how many times he was asked to bunt before the sacrifice was taken off with two strikes. I do knew his only successful sacrifice came before he was moved to the No. 2 spot.

Unfortunately, the White Sox were in the thick of the race when Beckham began hitting second because Ramirez was sidelined with an injury. I am not suggesting that Beckham hitting second prevented the White Sox from making the postseason -- there were more serious problems -- but a weaker No. 2 hitter was one of the problems down the stretch.

If Guillen has Beckham hitting second next year, I hope Beckham does better there.

Pablo_Honey
01-31-2010, 03:46 PM
I agree that Beckham was bound to fall off late in his rookie year as pitchers adjusted to him, but pitchers adjusted to him sooner because he was moved to the No. 2 spot.
The way I see it, pitchers will change their approaches when facing a dangerous hitter regardless of wherever the heck he is batting. Of course, that's just my opinion thus I could be completely be off, but I don't see how moving up the order can have drastic effect on performance. I mean, Gordon was starting to become a force to be reckoned with anyways after that monstrous July. It would have made no sense for pitchers to NOT make adjustments soon. I think his struggle in August just happened to coincide with Beckham moving up the order to 2nd spot. I'm willing to bet he would have done pretty much the same even if he did not move to No. 2. IMO, he just had a really bad luck in August and at home. Or he just crumbled slightly under the added pressure to perform. Afterall, baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical.

oeo
01-31-2010, 03:57 PM
I don't believe it was just a coincidence, which I will explain in the next paragraph. I also don't believe Beckham has the best bat control on the team. Beckham has more potential as a hitter than anyone produced through the White Sox system in many years, but there his demonstrated abilities don't match the mythology you see on this site.

Last season when people here wanted Beckham moved up in the lineup to the No. 2 position after he found success near the bottom of the order, I posted that his batting average would drop, in large part because pitchers would pitch him differently. The reason would be twofold. If he is batting second behind a successful leadoff man (and Podsednik was a successful leadoff man) it would follow that pitchers would pitch him differently. Additionally, teams would focus more on Beckham as an offensive threat, speeding up the adjustments their adjustments to hm. Some people would add that there is additional pressure in the No. 2 spot, but I have no reason to believe that was a factor. I agree that Beckham was bound to fall off late in his rookie year as pitchers adjusted to him, but pitchers adjusted to him sooner because he was moved to the No. 2 spot.

So because your prediction was correct, it means it was not a coincidence? He was perfectly fine for the first couple weeks. I think it had more to do with running out of gas than pitchers adjusting to him.

Also, who has better bat control than him? He can hit it to all parts of the field, with authority

BleacherBandit
01-31-2010, 04:23 PM
No. He hit a single for his first hit June 9th against the Tigers.

I meant the Cubs walk off and his first hit independently.

TDog
01-31-2010, 04:46 PM
So because your prediction was correct, it means it was not a coincidence? He was perfectly fine for the first couple weeks. I think it had more to do with running out of gas than pitchers adjusting to him.

Also, who has better bat control than him? He can hit it to all parts of the field, with authority

It wasn't a prediction. It was an assessment before the fact. I know what I am talking about.

I have no doubt that people expected too much from beckham last year. It looks like people may be expecting too much of Beckham in 2010. He did respond to more pitchers' adjustments than many rookies with strong seasons do, so perhaps he won't experience the typical sophomore fall-off.

He isn't best suited to be a No. 2, hitter, though.

Pablo_Honey
01-31-2010, 06:32 PM
He isn't best suited to be a No. 2, hitter, though.
How so? Not to sound all condescending and stuff but I'd like to hear your reasoning behind that. Gordon can make contact, runs the bases well and has adequate plate discipline. Having him in the bottom half of the lineup is just wasting his talent, and having him in the cleanup is premature at the moment. Right now, based on what we have seen, Gordon just fits the bill as a No. 2 hitter. A good comparison, one I'd love to see happen, would be Derek Jeter - solid all around but not exactly spectacular in any areas.