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bacon
01-25-2010, 08:46 PM
A tough decision, but IMO the right move. Best of luck Jimmy, unless its with the Twins or Tigers.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100125&content_id=7967284&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=4858083

Ill always remember the blast you hit during the blackout game. Wow, ive never seen or heard anything like it.

#1swisher
01-25-2010, 08:48 PM
Jim Thome 2006 - 2009

Thanks for the memories.

Chez
01-25-2010, 08:55 PM
Jim Thome and Jermaine Dye. Two class acts. Sincere thanks and best wishes to them both.

soltrain21
01-25-2010, 09:03 PM
White Sox aren't the last team Jim Thome played for. You guys are being a little...dramatic.

oeo
01-25-2010, 09:03 PM
It feels like the day he was traded all over again. :(:

I wish he could have won a ring here. No one deserves it more.

Waysouthsider
01-25-2010, 09:09 PM
I'm really bummed out about this, but I think its for the best for all. I had hoped he'd get to 600 with us.

Best of luck to him....!

SephClone89
01-25-2010, 09:10 PM
I'll always remember seeing you on TV for the first time at the '98 Home Run Derby and asking my Dad who you were. I thought your pre-swing routine was so cool. You became one of my favourite non-Sox players and after a business trip to Cleveland my Dad brought me back a red t shirt that said "Team Thome #25".

Your Blackout shot will always be one of the best moments in Sox history.

I'll personally always remember seeing you hit your 550th career homer on June 1st, '09 against the As. It was a three run shot in the eighth to win the game in my first Sox winner at the Cell for about six years.

Shoeless
01-25-2010, 09:22 PM
My brother adores Jim Thome. He became a Sox fan in 2007 (he was 9, poor kid). A my brother's first live Sox game, Jimmy hit a home run and my brother was hooked. I'll miss the big guy.

RedHeadPaleHoser
01-25-2010, 09:23 PM
Mr. Incredible will get a standing O if he plays in another's colors at the Cell. Thanks Jim. :gulp:

1917
01-25-2010, 09:29 PM
It was the right move, you gotta think with your head and not your heart. He was a class act while he was here, and will be missed, but I think the team will be fine without him.

beasly213
01-25-2010, 09:46 PM
I'm curious to see where he ends up. I doubt the Twins but if he does no big deal. Joe Crede didn't exactly help the twins win it all when he left the Sox for them. :D:

Domeshot17
01-25-2010, 09:56 PM
Jim, thanks for everything, sorry your career hung on the whim of a manager who decided to make the most offensive position in baseball a defensive one. You were huge for us while you were here, its a shame Buehrle and Contreras let us down in 2006, you might have held that trophy if they hold up. In the end, you know you got screwed here, so hopefully you catch on and hit the living **** out of the ball somewhere. You have always and will always be a better ball player than Andruw Jones and Mark Kotsay combined.

HarryChappas
01-25-2010, 09:59 PM
Bad move! Jimmy will be picked up by the Twins because they are a smarter franchise than the Sox. Good for him. Ozzie will hang himself this year. Jones will not even finish the season on the team and Pierre sat the bench on a National League team. Thome would have been open to a limited roll, but we would rather pick up guys with no personality (Rios) or a jerk (Jones). In two years the team will not have any likeable guys on the team. Beckham and Peavy will be surrounded by quiet, but fast players who stink.

SephClone89
01-25-2010, 10:01 PM
Bad move! Jimmy will be picked up by the Twins because they are a smarter franchise than the Sox. Good for him. Ozzie will hang himself this year. Jones will not even finish the season on the team and Pierre sat the bench on a National League team. Thome would have been open to a limited roll, but we would rather pick up guys with no personality (Rios) or a jerk (Jones). In two years the team will not have any likeable guys on the team. Beckham and Peavy will be surrounded by quiet, but fast players who stink.

Can you tell me next week's winning lotto numbers?

beasly213
01-25-2010, 10:03 PM
Bad move! Jimmy will be picked up by the Twins because they are a smarter franchise than the Sox. Good for him. Ozzie will hang himself this year. Jones will not even finish the season on the team and Pierre sat the bench on a National League team. Thome would have been open to a limited roll, but we would rather pick up guys with no personality (Rios) or a jerk (Jones). In two years the team will not have any likeable guys on the team. Beckham and Peavy will be surrounded by quiet, but fast players who stink.


This is exactly why Thome won't be picked up by the Twins.

soltrain21
01-25-2010, 10:04 PM
Bad move! Jimmy will be picked up by the Twins because they are a smarter franchise than the Sox. Good for him. Ozzie will hang himself this year. Jones will not even finish the season on the team and Pierre sat the bench on a National League team. Thome would have been open to a limited roll, but we would rather pick up guys with no personality (Rios) or a jerk (Jones). In two years the team will not have any likeable guys on the team. Beckham and Peavy will be surrounded by quiet, but fast players who stink.

What's it like to know everything?

Domeshot17
01-25-2010, 10:04 PM
This is exactly why Thome won't be picked up by the Twins.

I don't know, they built their ballpark for lefties to mash in. Picking up Thome to platoon might be a brilliant move by them.

HarryChappas
01-25-2010, 10:05 PM
Can you tell me next week's winning lotto numbers?

50- Missing HR's in our lineup.

Chicago5oooh
01-25-2010, 10:05 PM
Best of luck to you Jim. You'll always be one of my favorite ball players let alone Sox players. I hope you get to 600 somewhere. See ya in Cooperstown big man.

JGarlandrules20
01-25-2010, 10:07 PM
Thanks for all the excitement, Jim! I'll never forget the opening day home runs and the blackout home run!

I don't know if it was just me, but I always took pride in having one of the best character guys in baseball on our team.

I hope he gets to #600 soon.

GoGoCrede
01-25-2010, 10:07 PM
Bad move! Jimmy will be picked up by the Twins because they are a smarter franchise than the Sox. Good for him. Ozzie will hang himself this year. Jones will not even finish the season on the team and Pierre sat the bench on a National League team. Thome would have been open to a limited roll, but we would rather pick up guys with no personality (Rios) or a jerk (Jones). In two years the team will not have any likeable guys on the team. Beckham and Peavy will be surrounded by quiet, but fast players who stink.

Like a roll of bread? :redneck With butter, I hope.

beasly213
01-25-2010, 10:11 PM
I don't know, they built their ballpark for lefties to mash in. Picking up Thome to platoon might be a brilliant move by them.

Thome needs lots of at bats to keep his long swing timed right. Platoon at bats aren't going to be good for him.

soltrain21
01-25-2010, 10:12 PM
50- Missing HR's in our lineup.

You do realize those at bats that Thome and Dye took last year just don't go "away," right? Other people will take those at-bats. Maybe those two positions won't combine for 50 homeruns, but I'm guessing SOME get hit.

SoxNation05
01-25-2010, 10:16 PM
I wish Andruw Jones never came on this team even more now. Unless this preludes another deal (which it doesn't), we're making a mistake.

HarryChappas
01-25-2010, 10:21 PM
I wish Andruw Jones never came on this team even more now. Unless this preludes another deal (which it doesn't), we're making a mistake.

The only reason we picked him up is because he was cheap and Kenny could look like a genius.

DumpJerry
01-25-2010, 10:28 PM
Bad move! Jimmy will be picked up by the Twins because they are a smarter franchise than the Sox. Good for him. Ozzie will hang himself this year. Jones will not even finish the season on the team and Pierre sat the bench on a National League team. Thome would have been open to a limited roll, but we would rather pick up guys with no personality (Rios) or a jerk (Jones). In two years the team will not have any likeable guys on the team. Beckham and Peavy will be surrounded by quiet, but fast players who stink.
:cleo
You should really leave this work to the pros.

soltrain21
01-25-2010, 10:30 PM
:cleo
You should really leave this work to the pros.

He is also the guy who thought TCQ would never be more than a fourth outfielder and that we should have traded Konerko after we traded for Swisher.

SoxNation05
01-25-2010, 10:33 PM
He is also the guy who thought TCQ would never be more than a fourth outfielder and that we should have traded Konerko after we traded for Swisher.

We should've traded Swisher after we traded for Swisher. :)

HarryChappas
01-25-2010, 10:34 PM
He is also the guy who thought TCQ would never be more than a fourth outfielder and that we should have traded Konerko after we traded for Swisher.

So far TCQ has been exactly who the Dbacks thought he was and that is an injury waiting to happen.

Chicago5oooh
01-25-2010, 10:40 PM
Thome needs lots of at bats to keep his long swing timed right. Platoon at bats aren't going to be good for him.


source, link, citation?

chisoxfanatic
01-25-2010, 10:40 PM
Thanks especially for Game 163, big guy!!!

Rdy2PlayBall
01-25-2010, 10:50 PM
Best personality on the team. I hope he comes back as a hitting coach, bench coach, or something where he has an impact on the players. Good guy. Hope you get 600 for a team that will appreciate it. :D:

Domeshot17
01-25-2010, 10:52 PM
Thome needs lots of at bats to keep his long swing timed right. Platoon at bats aren't going to be good for him.

Come on, we are talking about playing 4-6 games a week versus righties plus late inning pinch hits, he probably nets 400 at bats and appears in 130 games.

Rdy2PlayBall
01-25-2010, 10:52 PM
Come on, we are talking about playing 4-6 games a week versus righties plus late inning pinch hits, he probably nets 400 at bats and appears in 130 games.Ozzie said once or twice a week I think.

soxinem1
01-25-2010, 10:58 PM
Ozzie said once or twice a week I think.

Every time Vizquel or Kotsay DH's and do not drive in a key run this board will light up like a pinball machine, especially if Thome has even a decent year for whoever signs him.

Domeshot17
01-25-2010, 11:01 PM
Ozzie said once or twice a week I think.

We're talking about him on Minnesota. Gardenhire is smart enough to know how to get the most out of (Edit Thome). He is by far the best manager in baseball. If Anyone can make a Thome Platoon work, its Gardy.

SOXfnNlansing
01-25-2010, 11:31 PM
We all loved Jimmy on the White Sox. I have to give praise to Ozzie for having the balls to convince Mr Reinsdorf and Kenny to buy into his DH program (for better or worse). I'm sure that the Sox brass wanted to bring back Jim, but were convinced otherwise.

It kind of reminds me of Ozzie's interview back after the '03 season. Kenny gave Ozzie a 'courtesy look' out of respect for his years in the organization. Kenny was convinced what Ozzie was selling and the rest is history!

Rikirk
01-26-2010, 12:08 AM
I would have liked to see Thome back. His clubhouse presence alone would have been beneficial. I dunno...him being somewhere else could bite us on the backside possibly.

Anyway..I wish Thome well and thank him for his efforts. I for one will miss him.

hawkjt
01-26-2010, 12:13 AM
Big Jim will be missed. But I am not going to forget how frustrated I was at times with our low average hitting in the meat of the lineup the second half...now, if the Sox do not have high average replacements in those Dye and Thome spots, I will rue this day ,maybe.

Actually, I rue this day anyway. Big Jim was a class act, and was on base a lot. He was the guy they pitched around, even last year, and without him we have a big hole and maybe nobody that they will even have to pitch around next year.

Good luck to Jimbo...and here is praying that the Sox made the right call.

Milw
01-26-2010, 12:19 AM
Bad move! Jimmy will be picked up by the Twins because they are a smarter franchise than the Sox. Good for him. Ozzie will hang himself this year. Jones will not even finish the season on the team and Pierre sat the bench on a National League team. Thome would have been open to a limited roll, but we would rather pick up guys with no personality (Rios) or a jerk (Jones). In two years the team will not have any likeable guys on the team. Beckham and Peavy will be surrounded by quiet, but fast players who stink.
This is the kind of post someone inevitably digs up in September and we all have a good chuckle about how every one of these predictions is off the mark by a mile... :rolleyes:

Milw
01-26-2010, 12:25 AM
With all this hand-wringing about how "dumb" it is to have a rotating DH spot, I can't help but be reminded about the pre-2005 reaction to trading C. Lee for Pods. Most people around here lamented that Ozzie (and Kenny, although it was ultimately Ozzie's request) was out of his mind for wanting to swap a power hitting LF for a light-hitting speedster.

This DH thing may or may not work out, and I wish Jim Thome nothing but the best... but come on people, Ozzie's earned the benefit of the doubt in constructing his lineup the way he wants it. If he fails, he deserves to fail on his terms.

jabrch
01-26-2010, 12:39 AM
With all this hand-wringing about how "dumb" it is to have a rotating DH spot, I can't help but be reminded about the pre-2005 reaction to trading C. Lee for Pods. Most people around here lamented that Ozzie (and Kenny, although it was ultimately Ozzie's request) was out of his mind for wanting to swap a power hitting LF for a light-hitting speedster.

This DH thing may or may not work out, and I wish Jim Thome nothing but the best... but come on people, Ozzie's earned the benefit of the doubt in constructing his lineup the way he wants it. If he fails, he deserves to fail on his terms.

This happens every spring. It is no surprise. Many at WSI know more than OG and KW. That's no surprise.

tsoxman
01-26-2010, 03:03 AM
50- Missing HR's in our lineup.

You're dreaming. Maybe in 2000.

TheVulture
01-26-2010, 03:54 AM
You're dreaming. Maybe in 2000.

He's got to be including Dye in that number. Still, the same thing was said heading into the 2005 season with Lee and Ordonez gone.

LITTLE NELL
01-26-2010, 05:32 AM
Bottom line on all this is that Thome cannot play 1st base and is stictly a DH which hurts when playing NL teams on the road. I think he sat for 9 straight games at one point and that hurts. I like the idea of a revolving DH were guys can sort of get a day of rest while being the DH and do not sit for long periods of time. This is why signing Kotsay was so important, he can spell Paulie at 1st and all the OF guys while they DH.
Thome is a class act and I hope he catches on somewhere but its time to move on.

DumpJerry
01-26-2010, 07:28 AM
This happens every spring. It is no surprise. Many at WSI know more than OG and KW. That's no surprise.
:welcome:

ode to veeck
01-26-2010, 07:33 AM
A class act all the way. Would be nice if the big guy could finish his career in Cleveland as is his desire, but the reality is he's got to take a job he can get.

chisoxfanatic
01-26-2010, 07:57 AM
A class act all the way. Would be nice if the big guy could finish his career in Cleveland as is his desire, but the reality is he's got to take a job he can get.

If he wants to do that, then the more power to him; but, I don't think the fans of Cleveland deserve that considering how they've treated him when he has returned to the Jake.

1917
01-26-2010, 09:19 AM
50- Missing HR's in our lineup.

So what? What did those 50 hrs get us last year? I'll take a DH who can drive in runs with a single with runners in scoring position over a DH who is swinging for the fences and getting K'd

asindc
01-26-2010, 09:36 AM
Best wishes to Jim Thome, except if you happen to be playing against the Sox.

asindc
01-26-2010, 09:38 AM
Bad move! Jimmy will be picked up by the Twins because they are a smarter franchise than the Sox. Good for him. Ozzie will hang himself this year. Jones will not even finish the season on the team and Pierre sat the bench on a National League team. Thome would have been open to a limited roll, but we would rather pick up guys with no personality (Rios) or a jerk (Jones). In two years the team will not have any likeable guys on the team. Beckham and Peavy will be surrounded by quiet, but fast players who stink.

I really did not want to hijack this thread, but seriously? I realize you are upset and I'm not about to tell you that you should not be, but really, let's maintain some perspective!

SI1020
01-26-2010, 09:53 AM
I wish Andruw Jones never came on this team even more now. Unless this preludes another deal (which it doesn't), we're making a mistake. I'm not too thrilled about Rios or Vizquel either. Vizquel as a DH makes one wonder what our esteemed manager is thinking. Regarding Thome, of course I wish him the best. I don't blame management for deciding his time was up with the Sox, but I don't think the team as constructed is close to playoff worthy.

Harry Chappas
01-26-2010, 10:56 AM
Bad move! Jimmy will be picked up by the Twins because they are a smarter franchise than the Sox. Good for him. Ozzie will hang himself this year. Jones will not even finish the season on the team and Pierre sat the bench on a National League team. Thome would have been open to a limited roll, but we would rather pick up guys with no personality (Rios) or a jerk (Jones). In two years the team will not have any likeable guys on the team. Beckham and Peavy will be surrounded by quiet, but fast players who stink.

Lest anyone think I authored the above crap...I did not!

Can I petition WSI for you to change your name?

doublem23
01-26-2010, 10:59 AM
This happens every spring. It is no surprise. Many at WSI know more than OG and KW. That's no surprise.

We're at least smart enough to know you get a DH in the American League.

asindc
01-26-2010, 11:03 AM
Lest anyone think I authored the above crap...I did not!

Can I petition WSI for you to change your name?

With that being the case, I offer my apology to you.

kittle42
01-26-2010, 11:11 AM
We're at least smart enough to know you get a DH in the American League.

C'mon, double - we all know the true reason for the institution of the DH is to get your top 3 bench guys more playing time. There's no reason any day can't be a Sunday afternoon lineup!

Tragg
01-26-2010, 11:15 AM
Don't want Thome?
Fine
But this business of Nix and Kotsay DHing is just clown-managing. But Guillen has inflicted this team with bad hitters for each of the last 3 years (Erstad, Owens, Wise) so I guess we go through it again. But this time, it's at DH, precisely where the lumberers should hit.
Note that the Sox were saved by injury from a year of Jerry Owens and, we made the playoffs; the other 2 years, we were below .500.
Hopefully Andrew Jones has some sort of resurrection. Because Nix and Kotsay? Yikes!

SOX41
01-26-2010, 11:22 AM
There has been a great deal of reaction to this "issue" surrounding Ozzie including Vizquel (and the others) in "the DH rotation". Really what I take from all of this is that Ozzie wants the flexibility to DH Konerko or Quentin (or anyone else for that matter) to keep guys fresh and in the line up and utilize the veteran bench he has and not be hamstrung by having a set DH.

Theories:

Konerko and Quentin may not want to hear that they may DH becuase they want to be out there, so Ozzie doesnt publically describe it that way.

Maybe Thome didnt like the thought that he would have a limited role due to the above and maybe he wants to move on as well.

Ultimately what is said publically is said for an intended result internally and from a managing fan expectation perspective. They are trying to address the all or nothing offense that has killed this team over the past few years. This is a team that scored 1 or less like 25% of the time last year.

Ozzie has convinced Kenny (even if Kenny wavers a bit). He really is only going to convince the majority of the fans after they see the result.

End of the day, people understand the need for change but when push comes to shove are afraid to actually change.

tick53
01-26-2010, 11:36 AM
Goodbye for now Jim. I don't think the White Sox have seen the last of you yet.

beasly213
01-26-2010, 11:58 AM
I have a feeling that if Thome wasn't such a great guy and was the exact same player barely anyone would want him back on the team.

thedudeabides
01-26-2010, 12:27 PM
Good luck to you Jim. Loved the time you were here. Hope you can stay healthy enough to get to 600.

I too think it was time to move on. The Sox and their trainig staff are pretty good at knowing when a player is no longer worth the investment.

And for those looking for another 'good guy' on the Sox. I think you will all end up loving Mark Teahen the person. A very classy guy.

Lundind1
01-26-2010, 12:28 PM
We may still pick him up at a later date. This may not be over, esp if Vizquel sucks, like I think he is going to. Just a feeling that I have.

asindc
01-26-2010, 12:49 PM
Good luck to you Jim. Loved the time you were here. Hope you can stay healthy enough to get to 600.

I too think it was time to move on. The Sox and their trainig staff are pretty good at knowing when a player is no longer worth the investment.

And for those looking for another 'good guy' on the Sox. I think you will all end up loving Mark Teahen the person. A very classy guy.

I think this was a major factor in the decision, though it rarely came up in discussion the past few days.

Foulke You
01-26-2010, 03:48 PM
With all this hand-wringing about how "dumb" it is to have a rotating DH spot, I can't help but be reminded about the pre-2005 reaction to trading C. Lee for Pods. Most people around here lamented that Ozzie (and Kenny, although it was ultimately Ozzie's request) was out of his mind for wanting to swap a power hitting LF for a light-hitting speedster.

This DH thing may or may not work out, and I wish Jim Thome nothing but the best... but come on people, Ozzie's earned the benefit of the doubt in constructing his lineup the way he wants it. If he fails, he deserves to fail on his terms.
I'm not against Ozzie's DH rotation as long as it only includes offensive players like Andruw Jones, Mark Kotsay, Carlos Quentin, and Paul Konerko. Oz's master rotation plan seems to break down when he talks of using backup infielders like Jayson Nix and the ancient Omar Vizquel in that spot. I just fail to see the logic of downgrading your lineup that much to get backup middle infielders some ABs at the DH spot.

I'm hoping Thome signs with Tampa. I have this horrible nightmare of Thome facing Scott Linebrink in a tie ballgame against the Twins or Tigers.:tongue:

Soxfan 78
01-26-2010, 04:10 PM
Good luck to you Jim. Loved the time you were here. Hope you can stay healthy enough to get to 600.

I too think it was time to move on. The Sox and their trainig staff are pretty good at knowing when a player is no longer worth the investment.

And for those looking for another 'good guy' on the Sox. I think you will all end up loving Mark Teahen the person. A very classy guy.

I met Mark Teahen at Soxfest and must say he seemed to be a really nice guy.:smile:

Tragg
01-26-2010, 06:07 PM
What's the thinking - by not having a legit DH, Ozzie can carry an extra utility infielder?

Mercy!

canOcorn
01-26-2010, 06:13 PM
What's the thinking - by not having a legit DH, Ozzie can carry an extra utility infielder?

Mercy!

Well, we do need someone to put out in the infield during the numerous 11-0 beatings we'll be taking and we cannot disrespect Vizquel by having it be him. :rolleyes:

russ99
01-26-2010, 06:16 PM
Well, we do need someone to put out in the infield during the numerous 11-0 beatings we'll be taking and we cannot disrespect Vizquel by having it be him. :rolleyes:

Which pitchers will be on the hill for those 11-0 beatings? :rolleyes:

canOcorn
01-26-2010, 06:24 PM
Which pitchers will be on the hill for those 11-0 beatings? :rolleyes:

Ask Ozzie. He's the one who made the comment.

SOXSINCE'70
01-26-2010, 06:28 PM
I wish the Sox could have won a World series with Thome.

I'll never forget the solo shot off Nick Blackburn in game 163 2 years ago.

esbrechtel
01-26-2010, 06:31 PM
Which pitchers will be on the hill for those 11-0 beatings? :rolleyes:


http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Chicago+White+Sox+Photo+Day+J7Qi_gzMeivl.jpg

esbrechtel
01-26-2010, 06:33 PM
Good Luck Jimmy....I will miss seeing you in a White Sox uniform

I was lucky enough to go to the 500 homerun game against the Angels my favorite experiences in US Cellular Field (Didn't get to attend the WS :whiner:)

hula
01-26-2010, 06:58 PM
I would have loved to see Thome with the White Sox again! Worst of all "Hot Stove" on MLB says he signed a 1 year deal with (of all clubs!) the Twinkies!! Please say it ain't so!!

First Pods to KC, now Big Jim to Minnesota! **** a duck!

Rikirk
01-26-2010, 08:39 PM
Ok...

Thome has signed a 1 year deal with the Twins...

I dare someone to tell me that this wont be a bit of a problem.

whitem0nkey
01-26-2010, 08:54 PM
Ok...

Thome has signed a 1 year deal with the Twins...

I dare someone to tell me that this wont be a bit of a problem.

yep, first Joe Crede and now Thome. were doomed.



DOOMED!!

Rikirk
01-26-2010, 09:01 PM
Fate likes to laugh at us at times...

Watch...I got a feeling something screwy will happen because of this.

Ranger
01-26-2010, 09:04 PM
Jim, thanks for everything, sorry your career hung on the whim of a manager who decided to make the most offensive position in baseball a defensive one. You were huge for us while you were here, its a shame Buehrle and Contreras let us down in 2006, you might have held that trophy if they hold up. In the end, you know you got screwed here, so hopefully you catch on and hit the living **** out of the ball somewhere. You have always and will always be a better ball player than Andruw Jones and Mark Kotsay combined.

Except it's not usually the best hitter on most teams. Can you name any teams last year where the most productive player offensively was the DH?

I mean, you're right if you consider the DH is only an offensive player. SO I guess he is the most offensive considering he doesn't play any defense,

I don't know, they built their ballpark for lefties to mash in. Picking up Thome to platoon might be a brilliant move by them.

Come on, we are talking about playing 4-6 games a week versus righties plus late inning pinch hits, he probably nets 400 at bats and appears in 130 games.


We're talking about him on Minnesota. Gardenhire is smart enough to know how to get the most out of (Edit Thome). He is by far the best manager in baseball. If Anyone can make a Thome Platoon work, its Gardy.

I like Gardenhire, but I think some people here overrate his "brilliance". Gardenhire is good, but he's also a beneficiary of a really well-run organization that continues to supply him with capable players.

If Thome can work in a platoon, he can work in a platoon regardless of the manager. Gardenhire isn't going to figure out anything with a 40 year old to make him hit better coming off the bench.

And, beasley is right on this one. Thome needs to play as often as possible to stay productive. That swing of his is all about timing and he really isn't the kind of player that makes adjustments from at-bat to at-bat. In order for Thome to hit, he needs to be locked in. And for him, that means playing just about every day.

I'm truly curious to see how he's going to work out up there over the full season.

HBaines03
01-26-2010, 09:05 PM
I'll be the 1st to say that I will miss Jim Thome.....I have an autographed baseball from him on my desk at work, but we need to look at everything here. We need to quit thinking with our hearts and think with our heads at times. Jim Thome is a homerun hitter and that is it. He doesn't offer anything from the defensive side, he doesn't hit for average, he has no speed, he can't bunt, and he hits to the right side of the field only. I know some of you will argue that he has high OBP which we need but I think as of late Jim was as much of a detriment at times as he was a help. I was so frustrated watching the guy not score from 2nd on a base hit in the 8th inning to tie or take the lead. I can't stand watching him end the inning grounding out to 2nd with runners on 1st and 2nd and nobody anywhere near SS or 3B and he had plenty of K's in big at bats situations. I'm not dogging the guy, I'm just saying you need to look at the entire package and I think there a more negatives than positives. I think there is more to offer from other players even if they don't have Jim's power.

canOcorn
01-26-2010, 11:11 PM
Except it's not usually the best hitter on most teams. Can you name any teams last year where the most productive player offensively was the DH?



Adam Lind.

PalehosePlanet
01-26-2010, 11:23 PM
Don't want Thome?
Fine
But this business of Nix and Kotsay DHing is just clown-managing. But Guillen has inflicted this team with bad hitters for each of the last 3 years (Erstad, Owens, Wise) so I guess we go through it again. But this time, it's at DH, precisely where the lumberers should hit.
Note that the Sox were saved by injury from a year of Jerry Owens and, we made the playoffs; the other 2 years, we were below .500.
Hopefully Andrew Jones has some sort of resurrection. Because Nix and Kotsay? Yikes!

Agreed and agreed.

Now I know people will leap all over me when I say this, but at this point I hope Tyler Flowers mashes the **** out of the ball in ST and grabs the DH position right out of the gate.

I think that Tyler, even while taking a few lumps while gaining some experience, would be better than what we have now.

jabrch
01-26-2010, 11:30 PM
We're at least smart enough to know you get a DH in the American League.

And that with a 100mm payroll, you can only do so many things...at some point, you pick your spots. Is it ideal if it ends up that we stick with what is currently under contract? No - it is not. But 4 players take up half this team's payroll. (Peavy, Buehrle, Konerko and Rios)

Nobody is happy about this situation, but it isn't the end of the world, and it very well may be good enough to win. And, by the way, Opening Day is still well off in the future.

jabrch
01-26-2010, 11:33 PM
http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Chicago+White+Sox+Photo+Day+J7Qi_gzMeivl.jpg


So is he going to be starting, or coming in a 0-0 game and being allowed to give up 11 runs? Or neither?

Ranger
01-26-2010, 11:35 PM
Adam Lind.


That's 6% of the league and there's nobody else. Therefore, as I said, "most" DH's are not the most productive hitters on their teams.

Ranger
01-26-2010, 11:36 PM
Agreed and agreed.

Now I know people will leap all over me when I say this, but at this point I hope Tyler Flowers mashes the **** out of the ball in ST and grabs the DH position right out of the gate.

I think that Tyler, even while taking a few lumps while gaining some experience, would be better than what we have now.


Flowers needs to catch every day. That's not happening here.

PalehosePlanet
01-26-2010, 11:41 PM
Flowers needs to catch every day. That's not happening here.

What if he's raking at a 1.000 OPS clip in AAA and we're really struggling to score runs on say.....May 1st?

canOcorn
01-26-2010, 11:50 PM
Can you name any teams last year where the most productive player offensively was the DH?



That's 6% of the league and there's nobody else. Therefore, as I said, "most" DH's are not the most productive hitters on their teams.

Actually, you only wanted one and I gave it to you. The problem isn't that our DH won't be the most productive at his position, but it will probably* be one of, if not the least productive.

*I understand that a complete rebound from Jones and Kotsay isn't impossible, but that's not a reasonable assumption by the GM or Ozzie.

happydude
01-27-2010, 12:28 AM
I'll be the 1st to say that I will miss Jim Thome.....I have an autographed baseball from him on my desk at work, but we need to look at everything here. We need to quit thinking with our hearts and think with our heads at times. Jim Thome is a homerun hitter and that is it. He doesn't offer anything from the defensive side, he doesn't hit for average, he has no speed, he can't bunt, and he hits to the right side of the field only. I know some of you will argue that he has high OBP which we need but I think as of late Jim was as much of a detriment at times as he was a help. I was so frustrated watching the guy not score from 2nd on a base hit in the 8th inning to tie or take the lead. I can't stand watching him end the inning grounding out to 2nd with runners on 1st and 2nd and nobody anywhere near SS or 3B and he had plenty of K's in big at bats situations. I'm not dogging the guy, I'm just saying you need to look at the entire package and I think there a more negatives than positives. I think there is more to offer from other players even if they don't have Jim's power.

But he's such a great guy....and the other guys like him. :rolleyes:

Palehose Pete
01-27-2010, 10:58 AM
I wish the best of luck to Jim. Two memories stand out for me: His solo homer in the 163 game against the Twins and shaking the man's hand at the Sports Clips on 75th Street in Downers Grove soon after he hit his 500th homer. I was getting a hair cut and he sat in the chair next to mine to get his cut. I couldn't believe it. Still can't.

salty99
01-27-2010, 11:14 AM
I wish the best of luck to Jim. Two memories stand out for me: His solo homer in the 163 game against the Twins and shaking the man's hand at the Sports Clips on 75th Street in Downers Grove soon after he hit his 500th homer. I was getting a hair cut and he sat in the chair next to mine to get his cut. I couldn't believe it. Still can't.

Yup that is where he went, I have a friend who lives in Downers Grove who's seen him there before.

Ranger
01-27-2010, 11:47 AM
What if he's raking at a 1.000 OPS clip in AAA and we're really struggling to score runs on say.....May 1st?

Doubt it. Unless they determine he can't be a catcher anymore. But since it is so difficult to find good offensive catchers, it's probably in their best interests to make sure he gets as much work there as possible. That's how he's most valuable to them.

There are certain prospects that they probably don't care all that much if they get called up and sent back and shifted from position to position...but when it's one of your best prospects, you don't jack around with his development. Especially when he plays a position like catcher and needs to improve there.

Actually, you only wanted one and I gave it to you. The problem isn't that our DH won't be the most productive at his position, but it will probably* be one of, if not the least productive.

*I understand that a complete rebound from Jones and Kotsay isn't impossible, but that's not a reasonable assumption by the GM or Ozzie.

I think you understood my point. Domeshot was wrong about what he said regarding DH's. They are usually not the most productive hitters on their teams. And they're getting less so as time goes on.

Daver
01-27-2010, 12:03 PM
There are certain prospects that they probably don't care all that much if they get called up and sent back and shifted from position to position...but when it's one of your best prospects, you don't jack around with his development.


Then explain what they are doing with Beckham.

Chez
01-27-2010, 12:46 PM
Then explain what they are doing with Beckham.

And what they did with B. McCarthy in 2006. I also hope Flowers gets a shot at DH.

jabrch
01-27-2010, 01:21 PM
What if he's raking at a 1.000 OPS clip in AAA and we're really struggling to score runs on say.....May 1st?


Shop AJ?

PhillipsBubba
01-27-2010, 01:50 PM
I hope he hits .176...he's a Twin now:angry:

Ranger
01-27-2010, 03:33 PM
Then explain what they are doing with Beckham.

Um, he's ready to be up here so he's up here. And he's not getting jerked around. He played one position last year all year. During this offseason, he's making the transition to the position that he'll play for the rest of his career.

You're trying to say they're screwing around with him, but they're not. They've been very careful with Beckham. They didn't move him from third to second back to third then to short and then to second in one season . He played one position, and now he's playing the position he'll never leave. Case closed. They also didn't call him up and send him back down then call him up again.

dickallen15
01-27-2010, 03:37 PM
Um, he's ready to be up here so he's up here. And he's not getting jerked around. He played one position last year all year. During this offseason, he's making the transition to the position that he'll play for the rest of his career.

You're trying to say they're screwing around with him, but they're not. They've been very careful with Beckham. They didn't move him from third to second back to third then to short and then to second in one season . He played one position, and now he's playing the position he'll never leave. Case closed. They also didn't call him up and send him back down then call him up again.

Wasn't he a SS then 2B in the minors last year, then they move him to 3B, now to second base. I don't see why having Flowers DH would be jacking him around, and what Beckham has gone through not jacking him around.

Edit.
Beckham played 31 games as SS, 2 at 3B and 4 at 2B in Birmingham in 2009. He played 1 game at SS and 6 at 3B in Charlotte.

Ranger
01-27-2010, 03:45 PM
And what they did with B. McCarthy in 2006. I also hope Flowers gets a shot at DH.


First, Brandon McCarthy is not the same as Gordon Beckham. McCarthy was never that good of a prospect and, if you recall, he fell out of favor with the club in the middle of that season. It's obvious they didn't like him as much as they had at one time. He's not Gordon Beckham and never was.

Now, if you're referring to his being called up and sent down, it's a little different for pitchers who have days off in between starts. They don't have to play everyday, whereas a position player does if he's going to get in the necessary work. Which is why they don't want to call up a position player who will just ride the bench. Especially when that player needs to get in some work behind the plate, as in the Flowers situation.

Just look at how they handled Hudson...they called him up when they needed an emergency starter, but he still got in the same workload he would've gotten in the minors. Teams often do that with their top pitching prospects. They're a little easier to maneuver.

thedudeabides
01-27-2010, 03:47 PM
Wasn't he a SS then 2B in the minors last year, then they move him to 3B, now to second base. I don't see why having Flowers DH would be jacking him around, and what Beckham has gone through not jacking him around.

Edit.
Beckham played 31 games as SS, 2 at 3B and 4 at 2B in Birmingham in 2009. He played 1 game at SS and 6 at 3B in Charlotte.

Beckham was much further along both offensively and defensively. Beckham really is a special case. Tyler has made major strides behind the plate, but absolutely needs more seasoning. The only way to get that is to catch. It's a different position than the rest on the diamond.

You do not want to retard his development behind the plate. If he can stay there, he could be a huge asset to this organization.

From most reports, his swing still needs some work. The big leagues is not the place to get that done. The organization thinks Viciedo's bat is closer than Flower's right now.

Ranger
01-27-2010, 03:52 PM
Wasn't he a SS then 2B in the minors last year, then they move him to 3B, now to second base. I don't see why having Flowers DH would be jacking him around, and what Beckham has gone through not jacking him around.

Edit.
Beckham played 31 games as SS, 2 at 3B and 4 at 2B in Birmingham in 2009. He played 1 game at SS and 6 at 3B in Charlotte.

He primarily played short in the minors, until it was clear they needed to do something about third (up here). And while it seemed likely he would not end up at third, they figured (rightfully so) that he's good enough to play a couple of different positions on the infield. He wasn't hurt in any way by doing what they did. He's also capable of handling it.

With Flowers, on the other hand, they are in a position where they first have to figure out if they think he can be a major league catcher before they make any sort of move with him. Kind of like they let Viciedo work out at third until it became obvious he needed to move somewhere else. A good catcher is harder to find than a good-hitting corner infielder and a good-hitting third baseman is harder to find than a good-hitting first baseman.

Flowers, and the Sox, would not be served best by having him come here to be a DH. They have to first find out if he can be a catcher before they move him around. It's too important of a position on the field. You guys should be able to see that.

Chez
01-27-2010, 03:53 PM
First, Brandon McCarthy is not the same as Gordon Beckham. McCarthy was never that good of a prospect and, if you recall, he fell out of favor with the club in the middle of that season. It's obvious they didn't like him as much as they had at one time. He's not Gordon Beckham and never was.

Now, if you're referring to his being called up and sent down, it's a little different for pitchers who have days off in between starts. They don't have to play everyday, whereas a position player does if he's going to get in the necessary work. Which is why they don't want to call up a position player who will just ride the bench. Especially when that player needs to get in some work behind the plate, as in the Flowers situation.

Just look at how they handled Hudson...they called him up when they needed an emergency starter, but he still got in the same workload he would've gotten in the minors. Teams often do that with their top pitching prospects. They're a little easier to maneuver.

What?! Brandon McCarthy was the Sox top pitching prospect. Much more highly regarded than Flowers is or ever will be (as a prospect). They brought McCarthy up from the minors and sent him down repeatedly in 2005 whenever El Duque needed a DL break. Then, after the Sox acquired Vazquez, they sent McCarthy to the bullpen for the entire 2006 season (even though he had never before pitched out of the bullpen). My point was that the Sox have not always treated their top prospects like delicate pieces of glass. If Flowers can truly mash, give him a shot at DH this year.

Ranger
01-27-2010, 03:59 PM
What?! Brandon McCarthy was the Sox top pitching prospect. Much more highly regarded than Flowers is or ever will be (as a prospect). They brought McCarthy up from the minors and sent him down repeatedly in 2005 whenever El Duque needed a DL break. Then, after the Sox acquired Vazquez, they sent McCarthy to the bullpen for the entire 2006 season (even though he had never before pitched out of the bullpen). My point was that the Sox have not always treated their top prospects like delicate pieces of glass. If Flowers can truly mash, give him a shot at DH this year.

Everything I said just completely escaped you.

Pitchers are often handled differently than position players (like I just said) because they are flexible as to when they can start. They can still start every 5 days whether they make a start here or one in Charlotte. It's called spot-starting.

They also (like I just said) lost some of their favor for McCarthy during that season because of some off-field stuff and they felt it was reflected in his on-field performance.

Treating a position player is much, much different. Please tell me you can see that.

SI1020
01-27-2010, 04:05 PM
The organization thinks Viciedo's bat is closer than Flower's right now. Really? That is a scary thought.

Chez
01-27-2010, 04:13 PM
Everything I said just completely escaped you.

Pitchers are often handled differently than position players (like I just said) because they are flexible as to when they can start. They can still start every 5 days whether they make a start here or one in Charlotte. It's called spot-starting.

They also (like I just said) lost some of their favor for McCarthy during that season because of some off-field stuff and they felt it was reflected in his on-field performance.

Treating a position player is much, much different. Please tell me you can
see that.

Ranger, it didn't. I was responding to your claim that "Brandon McCarthy was never that good of a prospect" and, as such, the way the Sox handled him can't be compared to the Flowers situation. I think you are mistaken. McCarthy was a more highly rated prospect than Flowers is. That said, I understand the difference between handling pitchers and position players -- I even know what "spot starting" means. My point is that given our current alternatives (Kotsay, Jones, Nix, Vizquel), if (and it's a big "if") Flowers can help the 2010 team get to the playoffs as a DH, then I'm for it. Missing the playoffs for the sake of developing Flowers as a catcher doesn't seem worth it.

Ranger
01-27-2010, 04:26 PM
Ranger, it didn't. I was responding to your claim that "Brandon McCarthy was never that good of a prospect" and, as such, the way the Sox handled him can't be compared to the Flowers situation. I think you are mistaken. McCarthy was a more highly rated prospect than Flowers is. That said, I understand the difference between handling pitchers and position players -- I even know what "spot starting" means. My point is that given our current alternatives (Kotsay, Jones, Nix, Vizquel), if (and it's a big "if") Flowers can help the 2010 team get to the playoffs as a DH, then I'm for it. Missing the playoffs for the sake of developing Flowers as a catcher doesn't seem worth it.


Then I should've been more specific: McCarthy was never as good of a prospect as Beckham was. It should of read like that, sorry if it was unclear.

Daver
01-27-2010, 04:42 PM
Then I should've been more specific: McCarthy was never as good of a prospect as Beckham was. It should of read like that, sorry if it was unclear.

Trying to compare position players to pitchers as far as value goes is an entire crapshoot, there are plenty of people that feel pitching prospects have almost no value because such a minuscule percentage of them actually pan out.

And Ranger, Beckham was brought up to play third for one reason, and one reason only, because Josh Fields was struggling offensively, he was never sent down because they had no one to replace him, and he was not struggling offensively.

Craig Grebeck
01-27-2010, 04:44 PM
Really? That is a scary thought.
Yeah, I doubt that's true.

thedudeabides
01-27-2010, 04:55 PM
Yeah, I doubt that's true.

There are some in the organization that think his bat in the second half was near ready last year. Once he got aclimated to the country, he really turned a corner. They don't see any fatal flaws in his swing, where as Flowers has a couple that need to be corrected. They are correctable, but he needs a little time to work on them.

Flowers plate discipline and pitch recognition are definitely more advanced, and that is what Dayan needs to focus on.

From the reports neither is ready right now.

Thome_Fan
01-27-2010, 05:03 PM
:whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner:
I'll miss ya, big guy! My tag just became vintage.

WhiteSox5187
01-27-2010, 05:32 PM
Then explain what they are doing with Beckham.

The same thing the Cubs did with Ryne Sandberg? :shrug: