PDA

View Full Version : Any interest in Damon if price drops?


Pages : [1] 2

ohiosoxfan
01-20-2010, 02:11 PM
I've been seeing several stories on Johnny Damon not finding any takers at his exhorbitant asking price. Even the Yankees and other usual suspects are claiming poverty when Johnny's name comes up. He has even thrown out the retirement word. IF his price goes under $5 million for one year, would you (or would the Sox) be interested in him as a LH DH-even with the Borass connection??

Pablo_Honey
01-20-2010, 02:21 PM
I've been seeing several stories on Johnny Damon not finding any takers at his exhorbitant asking price. Even the Yankees and other usual suspects are claiming poverty when Johnny's name comes up. He has even thrown out the retirement word. IF his price goes under $5 million for one year, would you (or would the Sox) be interested in him as a LH DH-even with the Borass connection??
WE ALREADY GOT ONE!

Joking aside, if he wants only 5 mil, I say sign away. He gives the flexibility at DH position Ozzie (or KW/JR) is really deadset on getting. In reality, I don't see the Sox signing anybody anymore, not unless somebody expensive is traded to make room in payroll. And no, I don't claim to know the financial situation but given how they've been operating, it's pretty clear they don't wanna spend money.

LoveYourSuit
01-20-2010, 02:32 PM
I would even go as high as $7 million for one season of Damon.

A line up starting off with Pierre, Damon, Beckham would be pretty solid and would allow you to hide the lack of massive power in the middle of the order.

dickallen15
01-20-2010, 02:35 PM
Damon is the perfect addition, although there is a big problem trying to sign him even if he gets real cheap. Boras is his agent. He also is Jones' agent. Signing Damon will theoretically cut into Jones' playing time and Boras would be right in the middle of that, and I would guess that is not a spot he wants to be.

asindc
01-20-2010, 02:47 PM
Damon is the perfect addition, although there is a big problem trying to sign him even if he gets real cheap. Boras is his agent. He also is Jones' agent. Signing Damon will theoretically cut into Jones' playing time and Boras would be right in the middle of that, and I would guess that is not a spot he wants to be.

I think your point is valid, but I think it would come down to how the Sox sell it to Damon. Jones (at this point) is probably going to DH about 95% of his playing time, while Damon could be part of a 4-man OF rotation including Rios, Pierre, and TCQ. Kotsay could be used almost exclusively as a backup 1B/DH, with a smattering of starts in the OF. Both Kotsay and Jones project as bench players anyway if the Sox deal for a primary DH in the next few weeks (man, Matsui would have been ideal). I can't imagine that Jones received an offer from anyone else, so Bora$ is not in the strongest bargaining position on this one.

Chez
01-20-2010, 03:15 PM
They were discussing Damon on Homeplate/XM last night and the assumption was that Damon would eventually re-sign with the Yankees at a steep discount. I've been beating the drum for KW to make Damon/Boras an offer for a couple of months -- especially as the price drops. Damon would be a great addition to our line-up. I doubt it will happen. I think Boras would use whatever offer the Sox, or any other team, makes as a way to save face with the Yankees. And I think Damon will wind up going back to New York.

PalehosePlanet
01-20-2010, 03:26 PM
I seriously doubt he'll come down into our range. Granted, I don't know what our range actually is, but I'm thinking we won't spend more than 2-3 million on any additional player. Plus, as others have mentioned, there is the Boras angle.

My original guess was that it would be either Aubrey Huff (thankfully he's no longer an option) or Russell Branyan on a 1/2.5 type of deal. I hope that I'm wrong and that we at least come up to the 4-5 mil range and maybe nab Delgado, or possibly bring back Thome, but I have a bad feeling it will be Branyan.

Carolina Kenny
01-20-2010, 03:28 PM
Yes, and would allow him to grow his hair to belt length.

Zisk77
01-20-2010, 05:37 PM
The problem is if you sign Damon or would have signed anyone of the possible DH that we passed on,...you now the people that are wetting their pants about the rotating DH...what do you do if you succeed in trading for A. Gonzalez? You'd have to waive players and eat their salaries.

I'm not saying that Damon or some of the past misses wouldn't have been good acquisitions but what if plan A is A. Gonzalez?

cards press box
01-20-2010, 05:40 PM
I've been seeing several stories on Johnny Damon not finding any takers at his exhorbitant asking price. Even the Yankees and other usual suspects are claiming poverty when Johnny's name comes up. He has even thrown out the retirement word. IF his price goes under $5 million for one year, would you (or would the Sox) be interested in him as a LH DH-even with the Borass connection??

I think Damon would bring flexibility and balance to the Sox lineup. Consider this lineup:

Pierre LF
Damon DH
Beckham 2B
Quentin RF
Konerko 1B
AJ C
Rios CF
Teahan 3B
A. Ramirez SS

I know some posters disagree but that lineup has plenty of power and punch. It has also has speed not only to steal bases but to go from 1st to 3rd on a single.

If the Damon market totally bottoms out, I can't imagine that the Sox wouldn't express some interest.

doublem23
01-20-2010, 05:41 PM
The problem is if you sign Damon or would have signed anyone of the possible DH that we passed on,...you now the people that are wetting their pants about the rotating DH...what do you do if you succeed in trading for A. Gonzalez? You'd have to waive players and eat their salaries.

I'm not saying that Damon or some of the past misses wouldn't have been good acquisitions but what if plan A is A. Gonzalez?

I'd personally prefer having to find creative ways to get productive players in the lineup, than finding creative ways to hide non-productive players.

JermaineDye05
01-20-2010, 05:56 PM
He's basically Juan Pierre with less speed and more power, I don't see what the point of signing him would be.

Domeshot17
01-20-2010, 06:18 PM
Nope. Would have been a much better lead off addition then Pierre, but we need a middle of the order bat, not a top of the order hitter.

SoxNation05
01-20-2010, 06:24 PM
While I would prefer it to standing pat... An outfield with Pierre and Damon would by far be the weakest throwing outfield in the league.

Also, Boras is his agent and I don't think he wants to leave the Yanks.

Rdy2PlayBall
01-20-2010, 07:04 PM
I think Damon would bring flexibility and balance to the Sox lineup. Consider this lineup:

Pierre LF
Damon DH
Beckham 2B
Quentin RF
Konerko 1B
AJ C
Rios CF
Teahan 3B
A. Ramirez SS

I know some posters disagree but that lineup has plenty of power and punch. It has also has speed not only to steal bases but to go from 1st to 3rd on a single.

If the Damon market totally bottoms out, I can't imagine that the Sox wouldn't express some interest.That line up looks way better than the one coming into last season. :D: But please, never put Beckham into the three spot until he is actually put there.

I also want to say I don't want him at all... even though he would make us better. There are other options.

doublem23
01-20-2010, 07:05 PM
He's basically Juan Pierre with less speed and more power, I don't see what the point of signing him would be.

He's still better than a Kotsay/Jones/Vizquel DH?

Zisk77
01-20-2010, 08:23 PM
I'd personally prefer having to find creative ways to get productive players in the lineup, than finding creative ways to hide non-productive players.


Huh? I don't think You understand what I'm saying. I'm theorizing that the reason KW hasn't signed a FA to DH yet is that he is actively trying to acquire A. Gonzalez. IF he acquired say Damon today and then next week acquired Gonzalez then he'd have to waive some players that are under contract, which would be a waste of money.

So Gonzalez would be at 1b
Pierre LF
Rios CF

Then one of TCQ Damon in RF?
DH is TCQ Konerko or Damon?

A Starter has to go or sit the bench. Plus Some of the bench would have to go...A. Jones? Kotsay?

dickallen15
01-20-2010, 08:48 PM
While I would prefer it to standing pat... An outfield with Pierre and Damon would by far be the weakest throwing outfield in the league.

Also, Boras is his agent and I don't think he wants to leave the Yanks.

For years, the White Sox had a good team with Tim Raines in LF and One Dog in CF. They couldn't throw either.

Jim Shorts
01-20-2010, 10:15 PM
For years, the White Sox had a good team with Tim Raines in LF and One Dog in CF. They couldn't throw either.


Bingo, but suddenly defense is this years teams albatross....

I don't get that. Probably for the same reason BA was such an enigma here

jabrch
01-20-2010, 11:49 PM
And no, I don't claim to know the financial situation but given how they've been operating, it's pretty clear they don't wanna spend money.

The payroll is over 100mm. *** are you talking about?

jabrch
01-20-2010, 11:52 PM
Huh? I don't think You understand what I'm saying. I'm theorizing that the reason KW hasn't signed a FA to DH yet is that he is actively trying to acquire A. Gonzalez.

Then what's he waiting for? :D: Git er done!

Pablo_Honey
01-21-2010, 12:16 AM
The payroll is over 100mm. *** are you talking about?
Exactly. All these talks of rotating DH, supposedly disappointing ticket sales in 2009 and the increased team salary have convinced me unless a guy like A-Gon (very cheap and very productive) is available, Sox aren't spending money for DH spot, especially not guys like Dye, Thome, Damon, etc. I won't be surprised if our DH is Kotsay/Jones platoon or whatever other scrap player they want there. I will be surprised, however, if it's anybody other than that.

russ99
01-21-2010, 12:21 AM
While I would prefer it to standing pat... An outfield with Pierre and Damon would by far be the weakest throwing outfield in the league.

Also, Boras is his agent and I don't think he wants to leave the Yanks.

I'd prefer standing pat to waste our minimal salary room in adding Damon, who we don't need.

And as long as the Yankees have interest, he won't come cheap.

Since the payroll is at $103M, we'd either need to cut payroll to add another $5M+ player, or it would need to be for an impact player after the season starts, which Jerry could be talked into.

My point being, let's see what Jones and Kotsay can do before dismissing them completely out of hand. If you think the Sox are going to add a 30/100 man before Opening Day, keep wishing cause it probably won't happen.

doublem23
01-21-2010, 08:49 AM
The payroll is over 100mm. *** are you talking about?

Yeah, but there's still a HUGE hole on this team that even the most novice baseball fans can see.

That said, it's still January and there are still some enticing names out there. I'm still confident the Sox will bring someone in, otherwise, you can just pack it up and start looking toward 2011.

chunk
01-21-2010, 11:02 AM
Nope. Would have been a much better lead off addition then Pierre, but we need a middle of the order bat, not a top of the order hitter.

Yeah, he would've been great to bring in if the Sox didn't already bring in Pierre. Damon gets on base at a great clip but he doesn't really have the power.

russ99
01-21-2010, 11:44 AM
Yeah, but there's still a HUGE hole on this team that even the most novice baseball fans can see.

That said, it's still January and there are still some enticing names out there. I'm still confident the Sox will bring someone in, otherwise, you can just pack it up and start looking toward 2011.

Even last year at this time when I was in total disagreement of the direction of the club would I consider "packing it in".

There's one hole on the roster, that may be filled if players that are here can play up to their potential. And if not, Kenny always is looking to improve. Look where we were in April last year and what he did to fix things by August...

Personally I think platooning Andruw Jones (power) and Mark Kotsay (average) can fill that need, but I wouldn't be opposed to another option being brought in to compete for the DH/RF spot.

hawkjt
01-21-2010, 12:53 PM
McNeil is convinced the Sox will announce the signing of Thome tomorrow at Soxfest. I suspect that is more likely than a Damon signing.
I was ready for Jimbo to retire last year, but I suppose if he comes for 1 million...maybe.

Domeshot17
01-21-2010, 05:15 PM
Well Crap. I lied. Damons is a great fit for this team.

Just to be clear how terrible our offense is....Damon would lead the team in slugging last year.

asindc
01-21-2010, 05:29 PM
Well Crap. I lied. Damons is a great fit for this team.

Just to be clear how terrible our offense is....Damon would lead the team in slugging last year.

Dome,

I'm assuming you think TCQ, Rios, Beckham, Pauly, and TCM will all have similar numbers this year to last. Not attacking your statement, mind you, just want to understand if that is the case.

Save McCuddy's
01-21-2010, 06:54 PM
Exactly. All these talks of rotating DH, supposedly disappointing ticket sales in 2009 and the increased team salary have convinced me unless a guy like A-Gon (very cheap and very productive) is available, Sox aren't spending money for DH spot, especially not guys like Dye, Thome, Damon, etc. I won't be surprised if our DH is Kotsay/Jones platoon or whatever other scrap player they want there. I will be surprised, however, if it's anybody other than that.


Wonder why we're paying Kotsay $1.5 then. That's likely all that Thome will get if and when he gets signed.

doublem23
01-21-2010, 07:06 PM
Wonder why we're paying Kotsay $1.5 then. That's likely all that Thome will get if and when he gets signed.

Because Kotsay has value to the team other than Thome? Thome might be a big stick we can pencil in the middle of the order, but he cannot play the field at all and is not a reliable pinch hitter. Put it the better way, if we're only paying Thome as much as we're paying Kotsay, then we're getting a deal for Thome's services.

Save McCuddy's
01-21-2010, 07:08 PM
Thanks Doublem -- you properly phrased what I intended to say.

doublem23
01-21-2010, 07:09 PM
Well Crap. I lied. Damons is a great fit for this team.

Just to be clear how terrible our offense is....Damon would lead the team in slugging last year.

That doesn't matter one bit, Damon > Platoon DH. I don't care if he'd have had the 7th best slugging percentage on the team.

****, wasn't it just a year ago everyone was complaining that there was too much HR or nothing, and now Damon isn't a good fit because his OBP is too high but he doesn't hit enough HR?

russ99
01-21-2010, 07:44 PM
That doesn't matter one bit, Damon > Platoon DH. I don't care if he'd have had the 7th best slugging percentage on the team.

****, wasn't it just a year ago everyone was complaining that there was too much HR or nothing, and now Damon isn't a good fit because his OBP is too high but he doesn't hit enough HR?

Damon's not a fit because he doesn't dramatically improve what we already have here, and he wants too much money given the Sox payroll constraints.

Would you prefer Kenny trade away someone like Paul or Danks so we can fit in a 36 year old Johnny Damon at $5M+?

Here's the 162 game averages for the players in question.

Damon: 16hr/76rbi/28sb .288 .355 .439

Kotsay: 12hr/67rbi/10sb .281 .336 .413
Jones: 33hr/99rbi/12sb .257 .338 .488

Kotsay/Jones Avg: 19hr/72rbi/11sb .269 .337 .450
(at 80% of Jones numbers)

We'd need a player under 35 who can produce measurably better than those numbers at under $5M, and unless Kenny makes a crazy deal for A. Gonzalez, it probably won't happen.

tm1119
01-21-2010, 10:56 PM
Damon's not a fit because he doesn't dramatically improve what we already have here, and he wants too much money given the Sox payroll constraints.

Would you prefer Kenny trade away someone like Paul or Danks so we can fit in a 36 year old Johnny Damon at $5M+?

Here's the 162 game averages for the players in question.

Damon: 16hr/76rbi/28sb .288 .355 .439

Kotsay: 12hr/67rbi/10sb .281 .336 .413
Jones: 33hr/99rbi/12sb .257 .338 .488

Kotsay/Jones Avg: 19hr/72rbi/11sb .269 .337 .450
(at 80% of Jones numbers)

We'd need a player under 35 who can produce measurably better than those numbers at under $5M, and unless Kenny makes a crazy deal for A. Gonzalez, it probably won't happen.


You cant use Jones' numbers in comparison at all because he isnt even 1/2 the player he used to be. He couldnt hit last year in Texas with Jaramillo coaching him. I think we can assume hes pretty much lost nearly everything. And Kotsay hasnt done crap since '05. I like what he brings to this team, but at this point he is nothing more than a pinch hitter/spot starter.

I really cant see how anybody can say that Damon isnt a good fit for this team. He is a good hitter and LH. What more can we really ask for at this point? With that said, its not going to happen, but to say he isnt a good fit for this team is just crazy talk.

doublem23
01-22-2010, 01:14 AM
Damon: 16hr/76rbi/28sb .288 .355 .439

Kotsay: 12hr/67rbi/10sb .281 .336 .413
Jones: 33hr/99rbi/12sb .257 .338 .488

Kotsay/Jones Avg: 19hr/72rbi/11sb .269 .337 .450
(at 80% of Jones numbers)


That is bull****, Jones' has been a wreck the past few years and it will be a minor miracle if he makes it to October without spending some, and perhaps significant, time on the D.L. That would be like suggesting we dig up Babe Ruth's fat ass and trot him out in RF everyday since his 162-game splits over his career are pretty good.

khan
01-22-2010, 01:21 PM
Damon's not a fit because he doesn't dramatically improve what we already have here, and he wants too much money given the Sox payroll constraints.
Agreed.

Would you prefer Kenny trade away someone like Paul or Danks so we can fit in a 36 year old Johnny Damon at $5M+?
No.

Here's the 162 game averages for the players in question.

Damon: 16hr/76rbi/28sb .288 .355 .439
A .439 slg% won't fix what's wrong with this offense. It wasn't the top and the bottom of the order that ****ed this offense last year. It was the injuries and ineptitude of the middle of the order that ****ed this team. In other words, it was an abject lack of POWER that hindered the team's offense.

The rest of the middle of the order guys will HAVE TO do better in 2010 than they did in 2009, REGARDLESS of whether or not KW brings another bat into the team. But, Damon by himself won't fix this. [And no, I don't buy his 2009 results as being duplicable in 2010, given the rest of the team he was on and the launching pad that was yankee stadium.]

doublem23
01-22-2010, 03:47 PM
A .439 slg% won't fix what's wrong with this offense. It wasn't the top and the bottom of the order that ****ed this offense last year. It was the injuries and ineptitude of the middle of the order that ****ed this team. In other words, it was an abject lack of POWER that hindered the team's offense.

The rest of the middle of the order guys will HAVE TO do better in 2010 than they did in 2009, REGARDLESS of whether or not KW brings another bat into the team. But, Damon by himself won't fix this. [And no, I don't buy his 2009 results as being duplicable in 2010, given the rest of the team he was on and the launching pad that was yankee stadium.]

The Sox still hit 184 HR last season, #6 in the A.L., above the league average, and more than the Angels, who won the A.L. West.

The Sox's OBP last season was .329, 10th in the AL. They're going to hit HR at the Cell, that's inevitable. The problem is there's never anyone on base.

It's pretty obvious the Sox aren't going to find a monster bat to plug into the middle of the order. The question isn't whether Mysterious Available Superstar Slugger is a better fit for the Sox than Johnny Damon, it's is Johnny Damon a better fit than some ridiculous rotating DH of washed up Andruw Jones, PH extraordinaire Mark Kotsay, and the bones of Omar Vizquel.

khan
01-22-2010, 04:03 PM
The Sox still hit 184 HR last season, #6 in the A.L., above the league average, and more than the Angels, who won the A.L. West.

The Sox's OBP last season was .329, 10th in the AL. They're going to hit HR at the Cell, that's inevitable. The problem is there's never anyone on base.

OK. However, SLG% is a better correlate of team success than OBP, HR totals, or stolen base totals. It has been so for some time in MLB. The SOX were 11th in team SLG% in the AL last season. Of the top 4 teams in the AL in SLG%, 3 went to the playoffs last year. In fact, ALL 4 teams in the AL had higher SLG% than the SOX.

For THAT matter, all 4 NL playoff teams, despite having the detriment of having pitchers hit, had HIGHER TEAM SLG% than the SOX did in 2009. Let me tell you this another way:

WITH slugger Jim in the lineup last year, the SOX SLG% was a measley .411. The other teams in the playoffs last season?

LAD: .412
STL: .415
COL: .441
PHI: .447 [BTW, this TEAM, pitchers INCLUDED slugged better than Damon has over the course of his career.]

NYY: .478
BOS: .454
LAAAAAAAAAA: .441
MIN: .429

In sum, don't confuse the idea of "power" being HR ONLY. It's more about SLG%. And Damon doesn't have enough of this to help this team.


The question isn't whether Mysterious Available Superstar Slugger is a better fit for the Sox than Johnny Damon, it's is Johnny Damon a better fit than some ridiculous rotating DH of washed up Andruw Jones, PH extraordinaire Mark Kotsay, and the bones of Omar Vizquel.

And that isn't the totality of the equation:

Are the craptacular trio of the [PROBABLY] formerly-roided up Jones + PH extraordinaire Mark Kotsay + the bones of Omar Vizquel AT THEIR PRICE POINT better than

The craptacular trio PLUS the ancient Johnny Damon AT THE USUROUS SALARY that borass will demand OR is this better than

The craptacular trio PLUS whatever DH KW can acquire at that player's salary.

Given that Damon won't solve this team's offensive problems even at a low price, I wouldn't entertain the idea of signing him.

guillen4life13
01-22-2010, 04:49 PM
LF Pierre (.330 OBP, 54 SB)
3B Teahen (.330 OBP, 35 doubles, 14 SB)
2B Beckham (.290/.355 with 45 doubles, 26 HR, 110 RBI, 14 SB)
RF Quentin (.290/.400 with 30 doubles, 39 HR, 120 RBI, 2 SB)
1B Konerko (.280/.360 with 30 doubles, 31 HR, 100 RBI)
CF Rios (.280/.340 with 40 doubles, 17 HR, 80 RBI, 25 SB)
C Pierzynski (.270/.325 with 30 doubles, 14 HR, 70 RBI)
DH Jones/Kotsay (.220/.320 with 30 HR, 80 RBI, 8 SB)
SS Ramirez (.280/.330 with 25 doubles, 20 HR, 70 RBI, 16 SB)

SP Peavy (18-10, 2.95 ERA, 210 IP)
SP Buehrle (17-12, 3.30 ERA, 210 IP)
SP Floyd (16-10, 3.80 ERA, 200 IP)
SP Danks (18-9, 3.00 ERA, 200 IP)
SP Garcia/Hudson/PlayersX (11-10, 4.50 ERA, 165 IP)

I don't think what I've put up there is too out of reach. I think Buehrle will have a rebound year and Peavy's health will bring him back to form. Beckham and Quentin will be in the MVP discussion and Danks will break out to join Peavy as a CYA candidate. I think this team can go far or through the playoffs.

I don't think this team would benefit from a Johnny Damon. Or Jim Thome. I'm happy with the versatility they've got and I think it will be a very exciting year. I wasn't optimistic last off season. This off season, I am.

TheVulture
01-22-2010, 10:36 PM
It seems to me a left handed hitter that is likely to hit .280+ with a .360+ OBP, hit 20 HRs, run the bases well, and still fill in for the OF a bit is exactly the kind of player that the Sox could use. You could bat the guy in pretty much any spot in this lineup and flexibility is apparently the key word this off-season when it comes to the roster so it seems like a fit to me.

wulfy
01-23-2010, 11:07 AM
Per Snarky Joe Cowley's Twitter Feed, when KW was asked about Damon in the Q&A - he responded by asking who his agent was?

Guess that's a no.

SoxNation05
01-25-2010, 12:16 AM
To gullienforlife:

I think it's pretty crazy that you think CQ is going to have a much better year than '08. With those numbers, he is MVP.

While I think Danks is going to be great this year is he really going to be a top 3 Cy Young canidate?

Teahen has no buisness batting 2nd and I really doubt ya boy Ozzie would go L L R R R R L L R.

What is so great about this "versitility" if it includes either jones hitting 220 or Jones on the DL?

soxinem1
01-25-2010, 01:49 PM
For years, the White Sox had a good team with Tim Raines in LF and One Dog in CF. They couldn't throw either.

Not only that, but they nearly went to the World Series with them in the OF and Ellis Burks in RF.

That was the worst thowing OF I ever saw the White Sox put on the field.

And as far as the topic goes, Damon would DH more than play the field if he came here. I doubt he and Pierre would be in the OF together much, if at all.

Lip Man 1
01-25-2010, 02:36 PM
I think this is a pointless discussion (with due respect) because of who his agent is...it's simply not going to happen.

Lip

TheVulture
01-25-2010, 05:40 PM
OK. However, SLG% is a better correlate of team success than OBP, HR totals, or stolen base totals. It has been so for some time in MLB. The SOX were 11th in team SLG% in the AL last season. Of the top 4 teams in the AL in SLG%, 3 went to the playoffs last year. In fact, ALL 4 teams in the AL had higher SLG% than the SOX.

For THAT matter, all 4 NL playoff teams, despite having the detriment of having pitchers hit, had HIGHER TEAM SLG% than the SOX did in 2009. Let me tell you this another way:

WITH slugger Jim in the lineup last year, the SOX SLG% was a measley .411. The other teams in the playoffs last season?

LAD: .412
STL: .415
COL: .441
PHI: .447 [BTW, this TEAM, pitchers INCLUDED slugged better than Damon has over the course of his career.]

NYY: .478
BOS: .454
LAAAAAAAAAA: .441
MIN: .429

In sum, don't confuse the idea of "power" being HR ONLY. It's more about SLG%. And Damon doesn't have enough of this to help this team.




And that isn't the totality of the equation:

Are the craptacular trio of the [PROBABLY] formerly-roided up Jones + PH extraordinaire Mark Kotsay + the bones of Omar Vizquel AT THEIR PRICE POINT better than

The craptacular trio PLUS the ancient Johnny Damon AT THE USUROUS SALARY that borass will demand OR is this better than

The craptacular trio PLUS whatever DH KW can acquire at that player's salary.

Given that Damon won't solve this team's offensive problems even at a low price, I wouldn't entertain the idea of signing him.

You forgot to mention that all the teams that won the World Series last year had Johnny Damon in the lineup. And his .365 OBP and .489 slugging percentage were well above the Sox averages, not to mention the Yanks. And slightly higher than Thome's.

No single player short of Albert Pujols will solve all of a team's offensive problems, so using that logic KW might as well not sign anyone. The Sox don't have thirteen position players better than Damon - therefore adding him to the team would make the team better, you don't need to know what SLG% teams had last year to see that.

#1swisher
01-25-2010, 08:20 PM
Damon talking with the Yankees

http://www.bronxbaseballdaily.com/?p=2146

stevemcstud
01-25-2010, 11:33 PM
I don't know why but I have a strange feeling that we will end up with Damon. I just find it hard to believe that we will stick with the current line up.

Of course I am basing this on pure speculation and optimism and have no facts or even rumors to back this up but here is what leads me to this.

1. If we were truly fine with DH by committee we wouldn't have gotten so deep into talks with Jim. Especially because of how Guillen talks about how much they respect him they would not just be kicking the tires.

2. With Kotsay being able to play 1st we have a backup at all infield positions and would have 3 outfield backups.

3. The market is dwindling for Damon and I imagine would only command 3 more million than Thome would cost us.

4. Speed, 20+ HR, .280 BA - exactly the type of hitter we would need to pull off this rotating DH.

5. Kenny is always under the radar :smile:

What do you think?

Chicago5oooh
01-25-2010, 11:36 PM
"Talks" went deep to avoid the **** storm that would have been soxfest had they announced this (not bringing back Jimmy) Thursday...

Damon's not coming here.

DickAllen72
01-25-2010, 11:37 PM
Boras and money aside, he certainly seems to be a perfect fit for the Sox considering what Ozzie wants and what the Sox need.

CLUBHOUSE KID
01-26-2010, 05:02 PM
Yes I WILL take Johnny

cards press box
01-26-2010, 10:51 PM
The MLB Traderumors site (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/01/yankees-not-having-any-discussions-on-damon.html#disqus_thread) suggests that the A's, Yankees, Tigers, Braves and Giants might all be out on Johnny Damon, causing the Damon market to completely collapse. At this rate, the Sox may be in the running for Damon yet.

Damon's combination of OBP and speed seems to be exactly what Ozzie Guillen wants.

WhiteSox5187
01-26-2010, 11:01 PM
Seeing as how we're not going to have Thome, we might as well get Damon, but if we're going to get him, Kenny is going to wait until his price drops even lower. Damon would be a good fit for the team that Ozzie wants to have.

DickAllen72
01-26-2010, 11:22 PM
Seeing as how we're not going to have Thome, we might as well get Damon, but if we're going to get him, Kenny is going to wait until his price drops even lower. Damon would be a good fit for the team that Ozzie wants to have.
I have a hunch that Damon winds up with the Sox within a week or so.

thedudeabides
01-26-2010, 11:24 PM
I have a hunch that Damon winds up with the Sox within a week or so.

It would solve a lot of problems. I normally wouldn't think it's possible because of his agent, but he is running out of options. I just have to wonder if the Yankees aren't lying in the weeds on this one. If his price tag really does come down to $2-4 million, I think you will get plenty of teams interested.

oeo
01-26-2010, 11:26 PM
Seeing as how we're not going to have Thome, we might as well get Damon, but if we're going to get him, Kenny is going to wait until his price drops even lower. Damon would be a good fit for the team that Ozzie wants to have.

If Damon can put up the numbers he has the last couple seasons, he actually wouldn't be too bad of an option at DH. Let's hope no one wants him. Kenny has tried to acquire him in the past, so I'm sure the Sox are interested if the price is right.

DirtySox
01-26-2010, 11:30 PM
I just have to wonder if the Yankees aren't lying in the weeds on this one.

I would have to think this is the case. Keeping my fingers crossed though.

thedudeabides
01-26-2010, 11:30 PM
If Damon can put up the numbers he has the last couple seasons, he actually wouldn't be too bad of an option at DH. Let's hope no one wants him. Kenny has tried to acquire him in the past, so I'm sure the Sox are interested if the price is right.

He would be a real good option, at this point. I wouldn't quite expect the same power numbers. His OPS was .120 higher in Yankee stadium, than on the road. His game played well to their new park. That being said, he would be a nice upgrade to this offense.

dwalteroo
01-27-2010, 12:05 AM
Rooting for Johnny Damon would feel really, really weird.

tm1119
01-27-2010, 12:24 AM
It would solve a lot of problems. I normally wouldn't think it's possible because of his agent, but he is running out of options. I just have to wonder if the Yankees aren't lying in the weeds on this one. If his price tag really does come down to $2-4 million, I think you will get plenty of teams interested.


No chance whatsoever. Tejada just got 6mil and Vlad got 5mil, Damon most likely wont get his 10 mil but he will get at least 6 or 7 mil. This is the reason I dont see us signing him. I really just dont see how Kenny could possibly be hiding that much money up his sleeve unless we trade someone else 1st.

canOcorn
01-27-2010, 01:09 AM
Seeing as how we're not going to have Thome, we might as well get Damon, but if we're going to get him, Kenny is going to wait until his price drops even lower. Damon would be a good fit for the team that Ozzie wants to have.

Cannot spend a dollar when you only have $.50., or some ****.

thedudeabides
01-27-2010, 10:39 AM
Could be pandering, but Cashman says the Yankees are out on Damon. They say they don't have any more money and need a RH bat.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4861828)

soxinem1
01-27-2010, 11:07 AM
Boras and money aside, he certainly seems to be a perfect fit for the Sox considering what Ozzie wants and what the Sox need.

More curious is the fact that the White Sox have not been linked to a single Damon rumor, which is the way KW likes it to be.

If he is even talking to NYY when they keep claiming they only have a couple million to spend, I'm sure Uncle Jerry could make room for another $2-3 million to sign this guy, as I'm sure Thome would have cost somewhere around what he signed for with MIN.

Damon would change the make up of this team very much. He can bat lead-off (sometimes) or second (primarily), which will enable them to balance the batting order out more.

You have the OBP and some pop and RBI's, so why not?

They may not get 200+ HR out of this lineup even with Damon, but they might not with Thome, Dye, or Branyan as a primary DH anyway. But if each of them do what they are capable of, they should at least come close:

PK: 26-35 HR
Rios: 20-25 HR
Ramirez: 18-24 HR
Teahen: 15-20 HR
Bacon: 15-25 HR
TCQ: 35-40 HR
AJ: 12-16 HR
Damon: 18-24 HR
Jones: (big wild card, but 17-30 is possible)
Pierre: 1-2 HR
The rest of the bench: 20-25 HR

On average, that should give us HR fans either very close or even over 200 HR as a team.

Plus, Ozzie gets his speed. Conceivably, he could get 45-50 SB from Pierre, 15-25 SB from Damon, 25-35 SB from Rios, 12-15 SB from Teahen, 15-20 SB from Ramirez, 10-12 SB from Bacon, 10-12 SB each from Vizquel and Nix, and another 20 SB from the rest of the team. As a team they should swipe from 140-160 SB's.

I think KW should make an offer and play a little hardball with Boras, and give him a best and final of $4-5 million and a couple million more if he is traded (should the team falls out of contention).

khan
01-27-2010, 12:33 PM
More curious is the fact that the White Sox have not been linked to a single Damon rumor, which is the way KW likes it to be.

If he is even talking to NYY when they keep claiming they only have a couple million to spend, I'm sure Uncle Jerry could make room for another $2-3 million to sign this guy, as I'm sure Thome would have cost somewhere around what he signed for with MIN.
This is probably the most cogent argument I've seen with respect to the SOX picking up Damon. I salute you.

Damon would change the make up of this team very much. He can bat lead-off (sometimes) or second (primarily), which will enable them to balance the batting order out more.
No, there would still be a huge hole in the middle of the lineup, just as there was last season. The SOX would again begin a season with an incomplete team.

But the good side is that if the SOX do acquire Damon, they would then have 8 guys capable of playing in the OF. I mean, doesn't EVERY team have such redundancy in the roster? [Nothing quite like the DH's defensive abilities to help the team, right?]

They may not get 200+ HR out of this lineup even with Damon, but they might not with Thome, Dye, or Branyan as a primary DH anyway.
It's not "just" about HR, though HR are great. When the 2009 White SOX slugged to the tune of a middling .411, that pretty much sealed their doom. [Look at the slg% of the playoff teams in 2009: Even the NL teams in the playoffs, DESPITE HAVING TO HIT THEIR PITCHER, slugged better than the weak-sauce White Sox lineup.]

But if each of them do what they are capable of, they should at least come close:

PK: 26-35 HR
Rios: 20-25 HR
Ramirez: 18-24 HR
Teahen: 15-20 HR
Bacon: 15-25 HR
TCQ: 35-40 HR
AJ: 12-16 HR
Damon: 18-24 HR
Jones: (big wild card, but 17-30 is possible)
Pierre: 1-2 HR
The rest of the bench: 20-25 HR
Konerko hasn't hit >30 HR since 2007, and he's not getting any younger.
Rios has hit > 20 HR, exactly ONCE in his career, also in 2007. Since he's gotten his big cash, it's slowed down his bat tremendously.
Quentin is a china doll, whether we like it or not. I'd love it if he could do what you posted here, but I kinda doubt it.
I think what you've posted for Ramirez and Beckham are a bit optimistic.
I'd tend to look for Damon to be on the lower end of that range, given his recent history with the Yankees, and that he's getting older.
I don't think that Jones will be on the roster by the ASB, and even if he is, he's done exactly jack and **** since MLB started testing for PEDs.

I think KW should make an offer and play a little hardball with Boras, and give him a best and final of $4-5 million and a couple million more if he is traded (should the team falls out of contention).
For "$4-$5M, plus a few more million if the SOX fall out of contention" [READ: $6 to $7 Million total], the SOX could have gotten an actual DH.

Matsui signed for $6.5M. If the SOX didn't want to or couldn't sign HIM, why would the SOX magically come up with the $6 to $7M NOW to sign a player whose agent KW hates? [I'm just curious.]

thedudeabides
01-27-2010, 01:04 PM
More curious is the fact that the White Sox have not been linked to a single Damon rumor, which is the way KW likes it to be.



Actually, I was told the Sox were in contact with Borass earlier in the offseason to gage his price. They found out he was too expensive and moved on to Pierre.

They may be interested again since the price has come down. It is unclear though how much it has come down.

dickallen15
01-27-2010, 01:06 PM
This is probably the most cogent argument I've seen with respect to the SOX picking up Damon. I salute you.


No, there would still be a huge hole in the middle of the lineup, just as there was last season. The SOX would again begin a season with an incomplete team.

But the good side is that if the SOX do acquire Damon, they would then have 8 guys capable of playing in the OF. I mean, doesn't EVERY team have such redundancy in the roster? [Nothing quite like the DH's defensive abilities to help the team, right?]


It's not "just" about HR, though HR are great. When the 2009 White SOX slugged to the tune of a middling .411, that pretty much sealed their doom. [Look at the slg% of the playoff teams in 2009: Even the NL teams in the playoffs, DESPITE HAVING TO HIT THEIR PITCHER, slugged better than the weak-sauce White Sox lineup.]


Konerko hasn't hit >30 HR since 2007, and he's not getting any younger.
Rios has hit > 20 HR, exactly ONCE in his career, also in 2007. Since he's gotten his big cash, it's slowed down his bat tremendously.
Quentin is a china doll, whether we like it or not. I'd love it if he could do what you posted here, but I kinda doubt it.
I think what you've posted for Ramirez and Beckham are a bit optimistic.
I'd tend to look for Damon to be on the lower end of that range, given his recent history with the Yankees, and that he's getting older.
I don't think that Jones will be on the roster by the ASB, and even if he is, he's done exactly jack and **** since MLB started testing for PEDs.


For "$4-$5M, plus a few more million if the SOX fall out of contention" [READ: $6 to $7 Million total], the SOX could have gotten an actual DH.

Matsui signed for $6.5M. If the SOX didn't want to or couldn't sign HIM, why would the SOX magically come up with the $6 to $7M NOW to sign a player whose agent KW hates? [I'm just curious.]

Damon is better than Matsui. They are the same age, but Damon can still run. KW inquired about Damon earlier in the offseason but his price then was through the roof. I don't know if acquiring Pierre makes any pursuit of Damon moot, but at least at some time since the end of the 2009 season, KW was interested.

soxinem1
01-27-2010, 01:31 PM
This is probably the most cogent argument I've seen with respect to the SOX picking up Damon. I salute you.


No, there would still be a huge hole in the middle of the lineup, just as there was last season. The SOX would again begin a season with an incomplete team.

But the good side is that if the SOX do acquire Damon, they would then have 8 guys capable of playing in the OF. I mean, doesn't EVERY team have such redundancy in the roster? [Nothing quite like the DH's defensive abilities to help the team, right?]


It's not "just" about HR, though HR are great. When the 2009 White SOX slugged to the tune of a middling .411, that pretty much sealed their doom. [Look at the slg% of the playoff teams in 2009: Even the NL teams in the playoffs, DESPITE HAVING TO HIT THEIR PITCHER, slugged better than the weak-sauce White Sox lineup.]


Konerko hasn't hit >30 HR since 2007, and he's not getting any younger.
Rios has hit > 20 HR, exactly ONCE in his career, also in 2007. Since he's gotten his big cash, it's slowed down his bat tremendously.
Quentin is a china doll, whether we like it or not. I'd love it if he could do what you posted here, but I kinda doubt it.
I think what you've posted for Ramirez and Beckham are a bit optimistic.
I'd tend to look for Damon to be on the lower end of that range, given his recent history with the Yankees, and that he's getting older.
I don't think that Jones will be on the roster by the ASB, and even if he is, he's done exactly jack and **** since MLB started testing for PEDs.


For "$4-$5M, plus a few more million if the SOX fall out of contention" [READ: $6 to $7 Million total], the SOX could have gotten an actual DH.

Matsui signed for $6.5M. If the SOX didn't want to or couldn't sign HIM, why would the SOX magically come up with the $6 to $7M NOW to sign a player whose agent KW hates? [I'm just curious.]

True, even with Damon the line up is not great, but it is still solid.

You are treading a thin line on PK. He missed a lot of time in 2008 and had 31 HR's in 07 and 28 HR's in 09, both in horse**** lineups. He can get to 30+ again, he's not that old!

Every team has an injury risk, and TCQ is no exception. In fact, every team except PHI and NYY is an injury away from the line up getting weaker, and even those teams have them. But he still had power numbers in line with his 2008 season, in relation to at-bats, while he played on one leg. If by chance he plays 2010 on two legs, look out.

I do not think I was being too optimistic with either Ramirez or Bacon. Ramirez has hit 20 HR already and Bacon has the line drive swing that can get him around that number as well.

I do agree with you about Rios to an extent, but like the others, I was basing my guesstimates on their talent.

But the SLG % has to increase. More HR's are nice, but this team needs to hit more 2B than it has in some time, as they have been near the bottom in this category since the dimensions of The Cell were changed.

khan
01-27-2010, 01:50 PM
True, even with Damon the line up is not great, but it is still solid.

You are treading a thin line on PK. He missed a lot of time in 2008 and had 31 HR's in 07 and 28 HR's in 09, both in horse**** lineups. He can get to 30+ again, he's not that old!
He's 34. Since the advent of player testing for PEDs, name ONE hitter who improved at the age of 34. ONE. Particularly in a lineup where the DH will be the ****ty Mark Kotsay, or the probable former 'roider Andruw Jones.

Every team has an injury risk, and TCQ is no exception. In fact, every team except PHI and NYY is an injury away from the line up getting weaker, and even those teams have them.
They have depth in quality in terms of their top producers. The Sox have what, MAYBE 2 players that have a prayer of approximating a .850 OPS? [One who is a china doll, the other who is soon-to-be 34?]

But he still had power numbers in line with his 2008 season, in relation to at-bats, while he played on one leg. If by chance he plays 2010 on two legs, look out.
Sure. "If" makes for a great plan, doesn't it?
"If" we could clone Babe Ruth, and sign him to the SOX, that would be great!
"If" we could somehow de-age Paul Konerko by ~5 or 6 years, he'd slug above .500!
"If" KW could spend as much money as the Yankees, we wouldn't have this discussion...

But the SLG % has to increase.
And there are two ways to improve a team's slg%:

1. Pass out the 'roids, like Tony LaRussa's A's, or Joe Torre's Yankees.
2. Actually sign, trade for, or develop players whose attribute lend themselves to a high slg%.

Johnny Damon, ESPECIALLY @ $6 to $7Million, is not one such player.

psyclonis
01-27-2010, 03:38 PM
I love how Kahn has such disdain for Damon considering hes constantly been solid offensively since '02...

Considering that Matsui signed for $6.5M/1, $7M/1 would be a steal for Damon.

oeo
01-27-2010, 03:53 PM
It's not "just" about HR, though HR are great. When the 2009 White SOX slugged to the tune of a middling .411, that pretty much sealed their doom. [Look at the slg% of the playoff teams in 2009: Even the NL teams in the playoffs, DESPITE HAVING TO HIT THEIR PITCHER, slugged better than the weak-sauce White Sox lineup.]

Well, this team should hit quite a few doubles.

Konerko hasn't hit >30 HR since 2007, and he's not getting any younger.
Rios has hit > 20 HR, exactly ONCE in his career, also in 2007. Since he's gotten his big cash, it's slowed down his bat tremendously.
Quentin is a china doll, whether we like it or not. I'd love it if he could do what you posted here, but I kinda doubt it.
I think what you've posted for Ramirez and Beckham are a bit optimistic.
I'd tend to look for Damon to be on the lower end of that range, given his recent history with the Yankees, and that he's getting older.
I don't think that Jones will be on the roster by the ASB, and even if he is, he's done exactly jack and **** since MLB started testing for PEDs.

Rios also hasn't played in the Cell for an entire year. He hit 17 last year in a bad year.
Quentin will be fine
Beckham hit 14 and didn't even play the first two months of the year. Plus he could easily put up 50 doubles. Alexei has the capability to hit 20+ homeruns. He hit 18 just two years ago in his rookie year.

Power should not be what you're worried about, it's easy to come by in the Cell. You should be worried about actually getting enough guys on base to score.

khan
01-27-2010, 04:16 PM
I love how Kahn has such disdain for Damon considering hes constantly been solid offensively since '02...

Considering that Matsui signed for $6.5M/1, $7M/1 would be a steal for Damon.
1. I don't have disdain for Damon. I have doubts that Damon would provide what this team needs.
2. Again, if the SOX didn't want to or couldn't spend $6.5M on Matsui, do you really believe that they'll spend $7M on Damon?

Craig Grebeck
01-27-2010, 04:17 PM
Well, this team should hit quite a few doubles.



Rios also hasn't played in the Cell for an entire year. He hit 17 last year in a bad year.
Quentin will be fine
Beckham hit 14 and didn't even play the first two months of the year. Plus he could easily put up 50 doubles. Alexei has the capability to hit 20+ homeruns. He hit 18 just two years ago in his rookie year.

Power should not be what you're worried about, it's easy to come by in the Cell. You should be worried about actually getting enough guys on base to score.
Doubles are suppressed at the cell.

khan
01-27-2010, 04:22 PM
Well, this team should hit quite a few doubles.
At least, one would help.

Rios also hasn't played in the Cell for an entire year. He hit 17 last year in a bad year.
I'd simply like to see Rios reverse the multi-year downward trend in his offensive abilities. Hit higher than the Mendoza Line. Finish with an OPS that is in line with his contract. Until he does it, I think its reasonable to doubt him.
Quentin will be fine.
I'd like to see it. I'd like to see him have 2 or more healthy and productive seasons back-to-back.
Beckham hit 14 and didn't even play the first two months of the year. Plus he could easily put up 50 doubles.
Yes he can. Or he could go through some growing pains in his 2nd year in the bigs. After all, it's happened to players as good as Beckham, no?
Alexei has the capability to hit 20+ homeruns. He hit 18 just two years ago in his rookie year.
Agreed.

Power should not be what you're worried about, it's easy to come by in the Cell. You should be worried about actually getting enough guys on base to score.
If memory serves, the SOX were better at OBP relative to the rest of the AL than they were at slugging last season. When the SOX can't even slug as well as the NL playoff teams, AND the Twins are already much-better than the SOX at slugging, I tend to prioritize slg% as a need. But yes, more OBP would be nice, too.

oeo
01-27-2010, 04:28 PM
Doubles are suppressed at the cell.

This is true, however they aren't in most other parks. Especially the rest of the Central, which has some pretty big alleys. Of course, we still don't know how the Twins new park will play.

And it also depends on the hitter. For example, I don't think Beckham's doubles will drop unless he's hitting it so hard that it goes out of the park.

If memory serves, the SOX were better at OBP relative to the rest of the AL than they were at slugging last season. When the SOX can't even slug as well as the NL playoff teams, AND the Twins are already much-better than the SOX at slugging, I tend to prioritize slg% as a need. But yes, more OBP would be nice, too.

The Twins also have a suspect pitching staff.

khan
01-27-2010, 04:33 PM
Damon is better than Matsui. They are the same age, but Damon can still run. KW inquired about Damon earlier in the offseason but his price then was through the roof. I don't know if acquiring Pierre makes any pursuit of Damon moot, but at least at some time since the end of the 2009 season, KW was interested.

I don't think that Damon is much better than Matsui. In 2009:

Damon: .282/.365/.489/.854, 24 HR, 12 SB
Matsui: .274/.367/.509/.867, 28 HR, 0SB

Given that this team is in more dire need of OBP and slg%, I'd rather have Matsui, assuming that he's healthy. This team already has plenty of players that can steal double-digit bases, [Pierre, Ramirez, Beckham, Rios] but maybe has only 2 hitters that can approximate a .850 OPS or a .500 slg% [Konerko and Quentin].

At the same time, I don't take it as a given that Damon can steal double digit bases any more. He'll be 37 this year.

khan
01-27-2010, 04:37 PM
The Twins also have a suspect pitching staff.
Sure. And the Twins [with their suspect pitching staff] slugged their way to the playoffs, while the SOX watched on TV.

All 4 of the top scoring teams in the AL made the playoffs last season. None of the top pitching teams in the AL [as measured by ERA] made the playoffs last season.

oeo
01-27-2010, 04:40 PM
I don't think that Damon is much better than Matsui. In 2009:

Damon: .282/.365/.489/.854, 24 HR, 12 SB
Matsui: .274/.367/.509/.867, 28 HR, 0SB

Given that this team is in more dire need of OBP and slg%, I'd rather have Matsui, assuming that he's healthy. This team already has plenty of players that can steal double-digit bases, [Pierre, Ramirez, Beckham, Rios] but maybe has only 2 hitters that can approximate a .850 OPS or a .500 slg% [Konerko and Quentin].

At the same time, I don't take it as a given that Damon can steal double digit bases any more. He'll be 37 this year.

Matsui is gone. Why are you still talking about him?

I don't think it was the Sox not wanting him, it was Matsui not wanting to come here. All signs pointed to the Sox having serious interest there. What are you going to do? The guy didn't want to come here.

ohiosoxfan
01-27-2010, 04:45 PM
Winn signs with Yankees. . . that knocks them out as a possible Damon suitor. Time to jump in and sign him for $5 mil or less. Rumors are that Boras is trying to drum up interest in Detroit & Cincinnati; two clubs with very little to spend.

DirtySox
01-27-2010, 04:49 PM
Rays are interested despite Pat Burrell.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/rays_have_interest_in_damon_mQewrEn09SwWK3hjeNXUoK

khan
01-27-2010, 05:01 PM
Matsui is gone. Why are you still talking about him?
Well, the short version:

A page or so ago, Soxinem1 suggested that KW make an offer of, "$4-$5M, plus a few more million if the SOX fall out of contention" [READ: $6 to $7 Million total] for Damon.

I responded that if KW had $6 to $7M to spend in the first place, why not go get an actual DH like Matsui?

DickAllen15 then posited that Damon > Matsui.

I replied to his post, which you quoted, saying that Matsui is younger and roughly of the same level of ability as Damon.

Therefore, if Matsui got $6.5M, Damon would likely get ~$6M to $7M/yr, which KW probably doesn't have to spend.

We all caught up?

I don't think it was the Sox not wanting him, it was Matsui not wanting to come here. All signs pointed to the Sox having serious interest there. What are you going to do? The guy didn't want to come here.
I also think that the SOX wanted him. I also think that KW didn't have the $6.5M to sign him, either.

Now, IF Damon is available for what Thome got in Minnesota, I'm all for signing him. But I doubt that he will sign that cheaply.

WhiteSox5187
01-27-2010, 06:18 PM
Well, this team should hit quite a few doubles.



Rios also hasn't played in the Cell for an entire year. He hit 17 last year in a bad year.
Quentin will be fine
Beckham hit 14 and didn't even play the first two months of the year. Plus he could easily put up 50 doubles. Alexei has the capability to hit 20+ homeruns. He hit 18 just two years ago in his rookie year.

Power should not be what you're worried about, it's easy to come by in the Cell. You should be worried about actually getting enough guys on base to score.

I don't know what you can count on from Quentin, it's not that he doesn't have the talent, it's just that I have strong doubts as to whether or not he can stay healthy for a full season. The Sox seem to be relying on some awfully risky guys, Quentin and Konerko are health suspects, Rios is a giant question mark and Beckham is in his second season in the bigs and as someone mentioned earlier could be subject to some growing pains.

Ozzie wants a versatile lineup and Damon is a guy with a bit of pop and a bit of speed, he'd be a good fit on this team, but I have no clue what the hell his price will be. If Vlad got six million, one would assume Damon would get just as much and I really doubt the Sox have six million to spend. But, I don't know.

#1swisher
01-27-2010, 06:29 PM
I don't know what you can count on from Quentin, it's not that he doesn't have the talent, it's just that I have strong doubts as to whether or not he can stay healthy for a full season. The Sox seem to be relying on some awfully risky guys, Quentin and Konerko are health suspects, Rios is a giant question mark and Beckham is in his second season in the bigs and as someone mentioned earlier could be subject to some growing pains.

Ozzie wants a versatile lineup and Damon is a guy with a bit of pop and a bit of speed, he'd be a good fit on this team, but I have no clue what the hell his price will be. If Vlad got six million, one would assume Damon would get just as much and I really doubt the Sox have six million to spend. But, I don't know.

Read this regarding Quentin.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2008140,sox-carlos-quentin-smile-012310.article

WhiteSox5187
01-27-2010, 06:37 PM
Read this regarding Quentin.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2008140,sox-carlos-quentin-smile-012310.article

I'd be unnerved if the Sox were saying "Oh, there's no chance he stays healthy all year."

russ99
01-27-2010, 06:56 PM
With the Yankees out of the picture to bid against, I see the Sox signing Damon as a possibility now. Two questions:

1) He'd need to come here cheap, let's say $2.5-3.5M, since we're at $104M and pretty much tapped out. It's doubtful Jerry would OK more for a part-time player.

2) Would Boras not want him here? He directly could jeopardize the chance of Andruw meeting incentives, and thus take money out of Boras' pocket.

I have to admit it would be pretty cool seeing Damon in full "Jesus hair" in a Sox uniform.

DirtySox
01-27-2010, 06:58 PM
With the Yankees out of the picture to bid against, I see the Sox signing Damon as a possibility now. Two questions:

1) He'd need to come here cheap, let's say $2.5-3.5M, since we're at $104M and pretty much tapped out. It's doubtful Jerry would OK more for a part-time player.

2) Would Boras not want him here? He directly could jeopardize the chance of Andruw meeting incentives, and thus take money out of Boras' pocket.

I have to admit it would be pretty cool seeing Damon in full "Jesus hair" in a Sox uniform.

Damon is seeking 7 million partially deferred in that article about the Rays interest.

Noneck
01-27-2010, 07:19 PM
I doubt the Sox would ever pay a part time player what Damon is asking for.

If for some reason Damon would sign with Sox , that will mean he will play full time.

russ99
01-27-2010, 08:45 PM
I doubt the Sox would ever pay a part time player what Damon is asking for.

If for some reason Damon would sign with Sox , that will mean he will play full time.

"Where's he gonna play?"

:hawk

Maybe in RF with Quentin at DH?

Damon isn't a above-average CF anymore, and Pierre can only play LF.

Craig Grebeck
01-27-2010, 08:49 PM
I sincerely hope people aren't being serious when they ask where Johnny Damon might fit in on a team that currently boasts a DH of Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones? That can't possibly be what I'm reading.

asindc
01-27-2010, 08:53 PM
"Where's he gonna play?"

:hawk

Maybe in RF with Quentin at DH?

Damon isn't a above-average CF anymore, and Pierre can only play LF.

Damon can DH 60-70% of the time and play OF the rest. Pierre, Rios, and TCQ will all need days off and can be given DH at bats as well. For Damon's production, you move others down on the depth chart. Not a problem from what I can see.

Marqhead
01-27-2010, 09:01 PM
I sincerely hope people aren't being serious when they ask where Johnny Damon might fit in on a team that currently boasts a DH of Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones? That can't possibly be what I'm reading.

No kidding. If they sign Damon he's in the lineup everyday and he and Quentin probably split DH duties. I'd definitely take him on this team.

Noneck
01-27-2010, 09:17 PM
Damon can DH 60-70% of the time and play OF the rest. Pierre, Rios, and TCQ will all need days off and can be given DH at bats as well. For Damon's production, you move others down on the depth chart. Not a problem from what I can see.

Those were my thoughts also, with Kotsay and Jones getting a lot less time. I know this is just a pipe dream though.

getonbckthr
01-27-2010, 09:28 PM
At mlbtraderumors they are speculating the Rays may be interested in 7 million with it partially deffered. If thats an option the Sox should jump in immediately. Doesn't Reinsdorf prefer defered?

ohiosoxfan
01-27-2010, 09:40 PM
I say no way does Tampa Bay come up with 7 million. . this is a team that is threatening to trade Crawford and Upton because they are starting to make money.

getonbckthr
01-27-2010, 10:05 PM
I say no way does Tampa Bay come up with 7 million. . this is a team that is threatening to trade Crawford and Upton because they are starting to make money.
They wouldn't pay him the full 7 this season. Some would be deferred.

Frater Perdurabo
01-27-2010, 11:02 PM
I say no way does Tampa Bay come up with 7 million. . this is a team that is threatening to trade Crawford and Upton because they are starting to make money.

Here's a wild thought...

How about sending a package of prospects to the Rays for Crawford (.816 OPS and 60 steals in 2010), put him in RF, and have Quentin DH? That would improve the defense and the lineup:

Pierre, Beckham, Crawford, TCQ, Paulie, AJ, Rios, Teahen, Alexei

Craig Grebeck
01-27-2010, 11:33 PM
Here's a wild thought...

How about sending a package of prospects to the Rays for Crawford (.816 OPS and 60 steals in 2010), put him in RF, and have Quentin DH? That would improve the defense and the lineup:

Pierre, Beckham, Crawford, TCQ, Paulie, AJ, Rios, Teahen, Alexei
Would rather just sign Damon and put him at DH.

A. Cavatica
01-27-2010, 11:42 PM
Here's a wild thought...

How about sending a package of prospects to the Rays for Crawford (.816 OPS and 60 steals in 2010), put him in RF, and have Quentin DH? That would improve the defense and the lineup:

Pierre, Beckham, Crawford, TCQ, Paulie, AJ, Rios, Teahen, Alexei

What package of prospects? :scratch: We're fresh out.

LoveYourSuit
01-27-2010, 11:46 PM
Would rather just sign Damon and put him at DH.


I agree. Damon brings a bit more pop and that's what we need.

And you don't lose anymore prospects.

Tragg
01-28-2010, 12:07 AM
Bring on Damon. He's a fine hitter and a cool player.

We don't have the prospects to trade - they are in extreme short supply so ours to us are a lot more valuable than other teams' prospects are to them.

SoxNation05
01-28-2010, 12:30 AM
Here's a wild thought...

How about sending a package of prospects to the Rays for Crawford (.816 OPS and 60 steals in 2010), put him in RF, and have Quentin DH? That would improve the defense and the lineup:

Pierre, Beckham, Crawford, TCQ, Paulie, AJ, Rios, Teahen, Alexei

Where would we be trading Konerko?

Thatguyoverthere
01-28-2010, 12:48 AM
I sincerely hope people aren't being serious when they ask where Johnny Damon might fit in on a team that currently boasts a DH of Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones? That can't possibly be what I'm reading.:rolling: I was wondering the same thing.

FGarcia34
01-28-2010, 01:43 AM
Yea, I'm not overly enthused with our DH platoon of Jones/Kotsay/Vizquel combined with giving a day off to PK or Quentin. The reality of it is that our bench is going to be getting more at bats and more playing time than we've seen before. Those classic "Scrub Squad Sunday's" are Oz's specialty so we will see plenty of these guys as is.

Unfortunately Damon just isn't the right fit...He's not a very good fielder, he can't steal bases anymore, and he really isn't even that powerful. He's certainly better than we have, but I'd like to take our chances with the bench and maybe see the Viciedo get his shots in spring training as well. If things with the DH don't workout as planned, I have no doubt that Kenny will pull the trigger on a guy for the middle of the order. It's not like this team can't hit home runs...We can pretty much count on this;

AJ - 13
Beckham - 20
Paulie - 25
Ramirez - 20
Teahen - 18
Rios - 20
Quentin - 25
Pierre - 0
Jones/Kotsay - 20

Thats 161 homers from our main contributors alone. It doesnt even include guys like Castro and Nix that can bring in another 20 combined. And who knows what or if Viciedo can bring anything to the party. This just simply has to be a wait and see approach with our DH situation. But, I've got a feeling that unless Quentin or Rios really tear it up, we will be looking for a hitter come July 31st.

ohiosoxfan
01-28-2010, 09:07 AM
How can you predict Damon's stolen base total and say that he can't steal bases anymore- he was 12 for 12 last year on a team that historically doesn't run much. In 2008, he had 28 (out of 37).

russ99
01-28-2010, 03:28 PM
I agree. Damon brings a bit more pop and that's what we need.

And you don't lose anymore prospects.

Wow. Some people are delusional.

I can't fathom any point where I'd take a 36 year old Johnny Damon over a dynamic player in his prime like Crawford.

This sudden homer-crush is warping people's sense of reality. The Sox have plenty of good prospects, but most are below class AAA.

sunofgold
01-28-2010, 03:57 PM
Think that AJ and Damon are still good friends. They played together in high school. Asking price should be around $5M/year, $6M (max).

Sign this dude! And make him grow out this hair and beard and get that cool caveman look back. Damon would bring out more fans to the ballpark.

And Damon has rings. Remember how bringing El Duque and his rings helped our team.

asindc
01-28-2010, 04:02 PM
Think that AJ and Damon are still good friends. They played together in high school. Asking price should be around $5M/year, $6M (max).

Sign this dude! And make him grow out this hair and beard and get that cool caveman look back. Damon would bring out more fans to the ballpark.

And Damon has rings. Remember how bringing El Duque and his rings helped our team.

I remember how El Duque and his rings beat Damon and his ring!

thedudeabides
01-28-2010, 04:19 PM
Think that AJ and Damon are still good friends. They played together in high school. Asking price should be around $5M/year, $6M (max).

Sign this dude! And make him grow out this hair and beard and get that cool caveman look back. Damon would bring out more fans to the ballpark.

And Damon has rings. Remember how bringing El Duque and his rings helped our team.

The latest is that the Yankees offered Damon $6 million, with $3 million deferred. He turned that down and that is where he wanted to play. It sounds like he wants more than $6 mil. I think highest bidder gets him.

We'll see if there is anything to the TB interest. It would seem odd for them to add another $7 million to the DH spot, when they have $9 million committed to Burrell.

I think the only way the Sox get interested, is if there is nobody to bid against. The more I think about this, the less likely I think it is to happen.

GoSox2K3
01-28-2010, 04:25 PM
Wow. Some people are delusional.

I can't fathom any point where I'd take a 36 year old Johnny Damon over a dynamic player in his prime like Crawford.

This sudden homer-crush is warping people's sense of reality. The Sox have plenty of good prospects, but most are below class AAA.

Ironic that someone who actually thinks the Sox have a chance to get Crawford is calling other people delusional.

We've heard the same tired old Crawford-to-the-Sox pipe dream on WSI for something like 4 years now. If Tampa Bay does put Crawford on the market, I don't know why the Sox with their thin farm system would be able to outbid other interested teams to get him.

asindc
01-28-2010, 04:26 PM
The latest is that the Yankees offered Damon $6 million, with $3 million deferred. He turned that down and that is where he wanted to play. It sounds like he wants more than $6 mil. I think highest bidder gets him.

We'll see if there is anything to the TB interest. It would seem odd for them to add another $7 million to the DH spot, when they have $9 million committed to Burrell.

I think the only way the Sox get interested, is if there is nobody to bid against. The more I think about this, the less likely I think it is to happen.

While I don't think it will happen for the Sox, I cannot take the Tampa rumor seriously until I hear something that indicates they are close to making a deal.

Sam Spade
01-28-2010, 04:35 PM
In my opinion, every major league farm system has enough to get crawford. Its more a question of every team being able to give up enough to get crawford. Are the sox willing? Who knows.

Craig Grebeck
01-28-2010, 04:38 PM
Wow. Some people are delusional.

I can't fathom any point where I'd take a 36 year old Johnny Damon over a dynamic player in his prime like Crawford.

This sudden homer-crush is warping people's sense of reality. The Sox have plenty of good prospects, but most are below class AAA.
1. I don't think it's delusional to want Damon on a cheap, one-year agreement. The guy is a damn good hitter and would slot in our lineup nicely. He's also better than Crawford as a hitter, which is what a DH does, mostly. You know, in the AL.

2. Just sign Crawford when he's a free agent. Damon would provide a nice bridge.

3. Name five "good prospects" in this system.

Sam Spade
01-28-2010, 04:46 PM
1. I don't think it's delusional to want Damon on a cheap, one-year agreement. The guy is a damn good hitter and would slot in our lineup nicely. He's also better than Crawford as a hitter, which is what a DH does, mostly. You know, in the AL.

2. Just sign Crawford when he's a free agent. Damon would provide a nice bridge.

3. Name five "good prospects" in this system.

#2 doesn't always work out. If it did we might have miguel cabrera.

Craig Grebeck
01-28-2010, 04:48 PM
#2 doesn't always work out. If it did we might have miguel cabrera.
Miguel Cabrera is a really, really great hitter. I like Crawford, but, meh. I don't know. His production isn't really all that great for a corner outfielder.

cards press box
01-28-2010, 07:12 PM
Anyone ever heard of the most recent ballplayer to defect from Cuba, Leslie Anderson? Here is a link (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/01/leslie-anderson-defects-from-cuba.html) to MLB traderumors. He apparently plays all three outfield positions and 1B and hits lefty.

I know nothing about Anderson and have no idea if he is ready for the majors. If he is, I wonder if the Sox have any interest in him.

asindc
01-28-2010, 07:15 PM
Anyone ever heard of the most recent ballplayer to defect from Cuba, Leslie Anderson? Here is a link (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/01/leslie-anderson-defects-from-cuba.html) to MLB traderumors. He apparently plays all three outfield positions and 1B and hits lefty.

I know nothing about Anderson and have no idea if he is ready for the majors. If he is, I wonder if the Sox have any interest in him.

I wonder how many guys Alexei knows in Cuba who are ready to come to the U.S. to play, and how much influence he is able/willing to exert to get them to consider the Sox.

asindc
01-28-2010, 07:22 PM
MLB Network is reporting that the Yanks are looking for one more OF. Names mentioned were Marcus Thames, Rocco Baldelli, and Jonny Gomes. Could there be something about Damon they know that other teams don't?

mzh
01-28-2010, 07:54 PM
MLB Network is reporting that the Yanks are looking for one more OF. Names mentioned where Marcus Thames, Rocco Baldelli, and Jonny Gomes. Could there be something about Damon they know that other teams don't?

Perhaps its the unfathomable thought that even the Yankees have some budget restrictions.

sunofgold
01-28-2010, 09:14 PM
http://bases.nbcsports.com/2010/01/source-the-braves-dont-want-damon-may-start-the-season-with-heyward-on-the-big-club.html.php

Braves think that he might get $4M-$5 from the A's. Braves don't want him defensively. We can DH him.

Do the White Sox have $4-$5M for Damon?

asindc
01-28-2010, 09:49 PM
http://bases.nbcsports.com/2010/01/source-the-braves-dont-want-damon-may-start-the-season-with-heyward-on-the-big-club.html.php

Braves think that he might get $4M-$5 from the A's. Braves don't want him defensively. We can DH him.

Do the White Sox have $4-$5M for Damon?

Two interesting things from that blurb:

1) The Braves do not think Damon's arm will play in Turner Field; and

2) the Braves think the A's might sign him even though they are not all that high on him.

Damon's stock has dropped considerably. If 2 years/$4 million per will get it done, I say get it done, Kenny!

#1swisher
01-28-2010, 10:55 PM
More Drama

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/boras_says_yankees_dumped_damon_1Y7MWfaSvEHqMi0QBE dGhM

asindc
01-28-2010, 11:13 PM
Boras actually thought that Damon would still get $13 million a year at this stage in his career? He definitely overplayed his hand on this one, several times with more than one club, it seems. At this rate, he will be lucky to get more than $5 million a year for 2 years.

rdwj
01-28-2010, 11:16 PM
He's...

Damon - fighter of the night man!
Champion of the sun
You're a master of karate and friendship for everyone!



....sorry - too many Always Sunny episodes on DVD tonight.

PalehosePlanet
01-29-2010, 01:26 AM
Boras actually thought that Damon would still get $13 million a year at this stage in his career? He definitely overplayed his hand on this one, several times with more than one club, it seems. At this rate, he will be lucky to get more than $5 million a year for 2 years.

Yeah, he's this year's Bobby Abreu. I say he signs for 1/5-6 and I highly doubt it will be with us.

Rdy2PlayBall
01-29-2010, 02:14 AM
Yeah, he's this year's Bobby Abreu. I say he signs for 1/5-6 and I highly doubt it will be with us.Speaking of that guy... Why the heck didn't we trade Dye last year and sign Abreu to a multi-year deal! Man that was something KW should have really tried to do.

oeo
01-29-2010, 04:18 AM
Speaking of that guy... Why the heck didn't we trade Dye last year and sign Abreu to a multi-year deal! Man that was something KW should have really tried to do.

He did try to, but couldn't find a taker. Dye was in rumors for Edwin Jackson and Homer Bailey to name a couple.

Lillian
01-29-2010, 06:09 AM
I can see how Damon fits. With the current roster, the lineup probably looks something like this vs lefties:

LF Pierre
2B Beckham
CF Rios
DH Quentin
RF Jones (I know, he's a big ? but at least he's an offensive threat)
1B Konerko
3B Teahen
C A. J.
SS Ramirez

Damon could be the DH vs right handers. His split stats were very good vs righties last year: .288 Avg. .380 OBP .509 SLG
He probably wouldn't be that good in our lineup and our park. He had more than twice as many homers at home as he did on the road, probably because of that short porch, and wind tunnel, in the new Yankee Stadium. Nevertheless he was still an effective hitter on the road.

I think you give Jones the chance to prove himself vs lefties, and if he can play his way into the lineup on an every day basis, you figure out where to fit him in. When he was good he hit both righties and lefties very well.
That would give this team some pretty good depth to cover injuries and question marks like Quentin and Jones.
Quentin would play Right when Damon was the D.H.
Versus lefties I like Jones in Right and Quentin at DH.

It would certainly be worth $4 or 5 million a year, for a year or two, if he could be had for that. And of course Damon still runs pretty well.
Between Jones and Damon, the Sox could feel confident in their offense on any given day.

doublem23
01-29-2010, 07:25 AM
Damon would be in the lineup everyday. Where are people getting this idea that Andruw Jones will be a serviceable, everyday player for the entire year? There's a reason he signed a deal worth $500 K... It's because the Sox are taking a flyer on him and hoping, maybe he'll refind a stroke he lost when baseball started testing for certain "enhancers."

I cannot stress this any more than I've already done, but ANDRUW JONES SUCKS AT BASEBALL. People are plugging him into the lineup like he's going to hit .250 and 30 HR at a steady clip all year. It absolutely boggles my mind.

If Johnny Damon signs somewhere else for around $5 million and 1-year, it will be a pretty clear indication that the Sox really don't give a **** about this year, and are obviously waiting until 2011 when a few more big salaries come off the books.

DumpJerry
01-29-2010, 07:29 AM
Damon would be in the lineup everyday. Where are people getting this idea that Andruw Jones will be a serviceable, everyday player for the entire year? There's a reason he signed a deal worth $500 K... It's because the Sox are taking a flyer on him and hoping, maybe he'll refind a stroke he lost when baseball started testing for certain "enhancers."

I cannot stress this any more than I've already done, but ANDRUW JONES SUCKS AT BASEBALL. People are plugging him into the lineup like he's going to hit .250 and 30 HR at a steady clip all year. It absolutely boggles my mind.

If Johnny Damon signs somewhere else for around $5 million and 1-year, it will be a pretty clear indication that the Sox really don't give a **** about this year, and are obviously waiting until 2011 when a few more big salaries come off the books.
Agreed. If the Sox sign Damon, Jones can cash his $500,000 check and buy a sweet-ass HD home theater-style TV so he can watch Baseball this summer.

asindc
01-29-2010, 07:44 AM
Damon would be in the lineup everyday. Where are people getting this idea that Andruw Jones will be a serviceable, everyday player for the entire year? There's a reason he signed a deal worth $500 K... It's because the Sox are taking a flyer on him and hoping, maybe he'll refind a stroke he lost when baseball started testing for certain "enhancers."

I cannot stress this any more than I've already done, but ANDRUW JONES SUCKS AT BASEBALL. People are plugging him into the lineup like he's going to hit .250 and 30 HR at a steady clip all year. It absolutely boggles my mind.

If Johnny Damon signs somewhere else for around $5 million and 1-year, it will be a pretty clear indication that the Sox really don't give a **** about this year, and are obviously waiting until 2011 when a few more big salaries come off the books.

1) While I agree that Jones should only see sporadic duty if we sign Damon, Lillian did say bat Jones only against lefties. I don't think that implies that we should expect him to hit 30 HR.

2) Or it might be an indication that he preferred to play somewhere else, a la Matsui.

dickallen15
01-29-2010, 08:22 AM
1) While I agree that Jones should only see sporadic duty if we sign Damon, Lillian did say bat Jones only against lefties. I don't think that implies that we should expect him to hit 30 HR.

2) Or it might be an indication that he preferred to play somewhere else, a la Matsui.

The White Sox interest in Matsui was overblown. They never even offered him a contract. Of course if they offered him the same as the Angels, he might have taken the Angels offer, but we don't know. #2 is not quite accurate.

If Damon signs for $4-5 million with a team other than the White Sox, its an indication the White Sox didn't want him.

Lillian
01-29-2010, 08:24 AM
Do you really think that Damon's production vs. Lefties is good enough to provide the left handed bat for which we have all been clamoring? His split stats over the years show almost no power vs. lefties, and not a very impressive on base %.

I think you would have to at least give Jones a shot at the lefties. If he couldn't produce then you could give those at bats to Damon. However, he certainly would not be hitting anywhere in the middle of the lineup, which is where this team needs help. Who is going to protect Quentin?

Jones and Damon are really two separate topics. Jones has the potential to give this team a badly needed power bat. Damon provides a good OBP and more speed.

asindc
01-29-2010, 08:56 AM
The White Sox interest in Matsui was overblown. They never even offered him a contract. Of course if they offered him the same as the Angels, he might have taken the Angels offer, but we don't know. #2 is not quite accurate.

If Damon signs for $4-5 million with a team other than the White Sox, its an indication the White Sox didn't want him.

We know that the Sox did not want Thome, since they said so publicly. But we would not know if the Sox did not offer the same (or slightly more) to Damon and he simply chose another team unless either the Sox or Damon say so, or a reporter does his job and finds out some other way. Dye chose the Sox over Texas. Fukodome chose the Cubs over the Sox. Peavy chose SD over the Sox at first, then chose the Sox over SD. These things happen, and unless they are revealed by either the parties involved or through sound reporting, we can only speculate.

We don't know why the Sox did not offer Matsui a contract. I think you are assuming that the Sox never contacted him. I am assuming that they did and he preferred playing on the West Coast and wanted to go to a team that would give him a lot of starts in the OF. You might be right, but we don't know either way since nothing has been said publicly about it. I suspect that if Damon signs elsewhere, it will be a similar situation. While you could be right in that the Sox did not pursue Matsui and might not be interested in Damon, it can only be an assumption unless it is made known publicly like with the Thome situation.

russ99
01-29-2010, 09:07 AM
If Damon signs for $4-5 million with a team other than the White Sox, its an indication the White Sox didn't want him.

No, it's an indication that the Sox are at their budget and won't go that far above it for a player that doesn't drastically improve the ballclub, which Kenny and Jerry are quoted on as the criteria for spending more.

Interesting how Damon's pricetag keeps sliding down here. He's asking for $7M, and conceding that some can be deferred but not interested in going lower. I seriously doubt Boras would entertain offers for $4-5M.

Jones is a risk, but the assumption that he can't help at all is ridiculous. At worst he's our power-bat pinch hitter and if he's in shape can be a backup LF/RF.

Also, you don't sign a guy like that if you have zero interest in seeing what he can do or throw him away at the first opportunity when someone else comes along.

If Andruw shows in spring that he can't cut it, I'll be the first to be OK with releasing him, but now isn't that time, and past years and what he did with LA in limited time says he's worth a look.

asindc
01-29-2010, 09:16 AM
No, it's an indication that the Sox are at their budget and won't go that far above it for a player that doesn't drastically improve the ballclub, which Kenny and Jerry are quoted on as the criteria for spending more.

Interesting how Damon's pricetag keeps sliding down here. He's asking for $7M, and conceding that some can be deferred but not interested in going lower. I seriously doubt Boras would entertain offers for $4-5M.

Jones is a risk, but the assumption that he can't help at all is ridiculous. At worst he's our power-bat pinch hitter and if he's in shape can be a backup LF/RF.

Also, you don't sign a guy like that if you have zero interest in seeing what he can do or throw him away at the first opportunity when someone else comes along.

If Andruw shows in spring that he can't cut it, I'll be the first to be OK with releasing him, but now isn't that time, and past years and what he did with LA in limited time says he's worth a look.

You might be right, but the Braves and Yanks have already told him no on $7 million, and Boras seems to be having a difficult time getting multiple teams involved in a bidding war. Oakland is not the kind of team that allows itself to get played like that, and the Sox certainly are not. Maybe Boras can get Detroit to bid against itself again, just like he did with Ordonez.

doublem23
01-29-2010, 09:20 AM
Jones is a risk, but the assumption that he can't help at all is ridiculous. At worst he's our power-bat pinch hitter and if he's in shape can be a backup LF/RF.

So what, does that mean Kotsay is the everyday DH in the unlikely event that Andruw Jones really does suck?

Why don't we just avoid this whole problem by signing Damon on the cheap, and then if Jones really does find his old stroke, we have the much more pleasant problem of trying to find ABs for all the good players we have instead of our current state, which is trying to figure out a way hide all the crap bats we've assembled.

asindc
01-29-2010, 09:23 AM
So what, does that mean Kotsay is the everyday DH in the unlikely event that Andruw Jones really does suck?

Why don't we just avoid this whole problem by signing Damon on the cheap, and then if Jones really does find his old stroke, we have the much more pleasant problem of trying to find ABs for all the good players we have instead of our current state, which is trying to figure out a way hide all the crap bats we've assembled.


If that is possible (meaning, if JR allows KW to spend the money and Damon wants to come here), then I cannot imagine that the Sox will not do it.

PalehosePlanet
01-29-2010, 11:00 AM
So what, does that mean Kotsay is the everyday DH in the unlikely event that Andruw Jones really does suck?


The problem with Kotsay DH'ing, as we've mentioned before, is that it absolutely kills his true value which is as a left handed pinch hitter and a versatile 1B/OF off the bench. That's what he was signed to do; by starting him at DH you absolutely minimize his value to the team.

The problem is you can't DH Vizquel instead vs. lefties and keep Kotsay's versatility on the bench for later game situations because Kotsay is the better hitter.

Jeez....just sign a hitter KW!!

doublem23
01-29-2010, 12:04 PM
The problem with Kotsay DH'ing, as we've mentioned before, is that it absolutely kills his true value which is as a left handed pinch hitter and a versatile 1B/OF off the bench. That's what he was signed to do; by starting him at DH you absolutely minimize his value to the team.

The problem is you can't DH Vizquel instead vs. lefties and keep Kotsay's versatility on the bench for later game situations because Kotsay is the better hitter.

Jeez....just sign a hitter KW!!

That's what I was getting at, if the inexplicable happens and Andruw Jones can't be counted in 2010, our DH stock is absolutely barren, Kotsay's value to the club is the fact that he's a superstar pinch hitter, plus I don't know if he can play everyday and be effective. If we have to rely on Omar Vizquel to DH, well then we may as well just let Peavy hit the days he pitches and just DH him the other 4 games.

Chez
01-29-2010, 12:20 PM
That's what I was getting at, if the inexplicable happens and Andruw Jones can't be counted in 2010, our DH stock is absolutely barren, Kotsay's value to the club is the fact that he's a superstar pinch hitter, plus I don't know if he can play everyday and be effective. If we have to rely on Omar Vizquel to DH, well then we may as well just let Peavy hit the days he pitches and just DH him the other 4 games.

True -- but except on days when Castro or Nix start (not many), which righties would Kotsay be pinch hitting for anyway?

Corlose 15
01-29-2010, 12:42 PM
The more I look at it, the more it seems that Damon will get some mediocre team to overpay for him, Cincinatti maybe?, and get traded to the Yankees at midseason. It seems both he and the Yankees are ok with that.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/01/29/heyman.damon/index.html?eref=sihp

dickallen15
01-29-2010, 12:51 PM
The more I look at it, the more it seems that Damon will get some mediocre team to overpay for him, Cincinatti maybe?, and get traded to the Yankees at midseason. It seems both he and the Yankees are ok with that.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/01/29/heyman.damon/index.html?eref=sihp

He isn't going to get a team like Cincinatti to overpay for him that's for sure. The other thing I like about Damon's shrinking price tag is he will also sell a few tickets. The best deal he got from the Yankees is $6 million with half of it being deferred. $5 million and you probably are the high bidder.

Corlose 15
01-29-2010, 01:12 PM
He isn't going to get a team like Cincinatti to overpay for him that's for sure. The other thing I like about Damon's shrinking price tag is he will also sell a few tickets. The best deal he got from the Yankees is $6 million with half of it being deferred. $5 million and you probably are the high bidder.

I just feel that some team like Detroit, Cincinatti, Oakland will be able to pay more than the Sox, provided the Sox are even interested.

It may take a while for Boras and Damon's egos to accept a $5M deal.

mzh
01-29-2010, 01:15 PM
I just feel that some team like Detroit, Cincinatti, Oakland will be able to pay more than the Sox, provided the Sox are even interested.

It may take a while for Boras and Damon's egos to accept a $5M deal.

OOTH, I get the feeling that Damon will also want to play for a serious contender, something that Cincinatti and Oakland can't exactly provide.

sunofgold
01-29-2010, 02:15 PM
Any particular reason why he wouldn't want to play here? I cannot really think of one. He is friends with AJ.

He has played before Boston and New York Yankees (two of the toughest places to please the fan). Has handled the pressure there with no problems.

Wouldn't he prefer to play on a larger market team like the White Sox than say the A's? I think that he would be well liked by our fans. I am reading some thought by Yankees fans and they are upset that the Yankees signed other guys over Damon.

Corlose 15
01-29-2010, 02:25 PM
Any particular reason why he wouldn't want to play here? I cannot really think of one. He is friends with AJ.

He has played before Boston and New York Yankees (two of the toughest places to please the fan). Has handled the pressure there with no problems.

Wouldn't he prefer to play on a larger market team like the White Sox than say the A's? I think that he would be well liked by our fans. I am reading some thought by Yankees fans and they are upset that the Yankees signed other guys over Damon.

I think he believes he's worth more than what is being offered and based on that article is fine with going to a mediocre team now for more money and being traded, preferably to the Yankees, at mid-season.

I think the White Sox provide a good fit for him and he would round out the lineup nicely. If I'm KW and I'm interested I say "Here's our offer, (be it 5M or whatever) we give you the best chance to win out of all the remaining teams here, take it or leave it."

sunofgold
01-29-2010, 03:59 PM
They would have signed him if they wanted him. Would have to give up prospect(s) in a trade.

And now that the two sides are bickering, I have a hard time believing that the Yanks would trade for him mid-season. There will be other players available during the midseason if they feel the need to make a trade.

And the team that signs Damon would have to agree to make the trade. That isn't a guarantee.

kittle42
01-29-2010, 04:38 PM
He's...

Damon - fighter of the night man!
Champion of the sun
You're a master of karate and friendship for everyone!



....sorry - too many Always Sunny episodes on DVD tonight.

Don't say stage freeze. Just do it.

Hitmen77
02-01-2010, 11:52 AM
http://www.freep.com/article/20100201/SPORTS18/100201024/1048/SPORTS/Johnny-Damon-to-Tigers-makes-too-much-sense



He could end up with Detroit too.

Dick Allen
02-01-2010, 01:12 PM
KW needs to make this happen. You can't build an NL-type team to play in the AL. DH is too damn important.

DirtySox
02-10-2010, 12:32 PM
http://twitter.com/ajcbraves/statuses/8909908699

Braves interest increasing.

tm1119
02-10-2010, 06:02 PM
The report is that the Braves are offering 1 year 2million with another 2 million deferred. http://twitter.com/TylerKepner/statuses/8920815879

Seriously, if we arent willing to match this then I question the willingness to win. Ok, maybe thats a bit of overreacting, but not much. 3mil this season and 3 mil deferred to next season when we have salaries freed up would be ideal. Please make this happen.

CPditka
02-10-2010, 06:04 PM
...I think this is the part of the thread title that says "if his price drops"...well its droppped.


Gotta pick him up for 4-6 mil over 2 yrs. (1 year contract)

kittle42
02-10-2010, 07:18 PM
I guess this is me being a broken record - but I will be shocked if the Sox shell out another dime this offseason.

Rdy2PlayBall
02-10-2010, 07:21 PM
I guess this is me being a broken record - but I will be shocked if the Sox shell out another dime this offseason.3-5m is nothing for the type of boost he could bring to the Sox. KW would probably get some money out of his own pocket to pay for it. They better get him if the price is as low as some of his offers.

Scottiehaswheels
02-10-2010, 07:36 PM
The Wednesday window is closing.... only 5.5 more hours for White Sox Wednesday. DO IT KW! :D:

russ99
02-10-2010, 07:51 PM
The report is that the Braves are offering 1 year 2million with another 2 million deferred. http://twitter.com/TylerKepner/statuses/8920815879

Seriously, if we arent willing to match this then I question the willingness to win. Ok, maybe thats a bit of overreacting, but not much. 3mil this season and 3 mil deferred to next season when we have salaries freed up would be ideal. Please make this happen.

Not willingness to win, willingness to overpay for a fading player.

If Kenny wouldn't accept those terms to bring back Pods, Dye or Thome, then why would he do so for Damon?

If he's a bust, would you like the Sox to be on the hook for an extra $3M next year when it could be used for a better, younger player? If Jones is cut, we're only out 500k this year.

Craig Grebeck
02-10-2010, 07:52 PM
Not willingness to win, willingness to overpay for a fading player.

If Kenny wouldn't accept those terms to bring back Pods, Dye or Thome, then why would he do so for Damon?

If he's a bust, would you like the Sox to be on the hook for an extra $3M next year when it could be used for a better, younger player? If Jones is cut, we're only out 500k, this year.
When Mark Kotsay has a guaranteed $1.5 million dollar contract, scoffing at $2 million up front for Johnny Damon is all kinds of insane.

russ99
02-10-2010, 07:54 PM
When Mark Kotsay has a guaranteed $1.5 million dollar contract, scoffing at $2 million up front for Johnny Damon is all kinds of insane.

No, the post was $3M this year, $3M deferred to next year, a total of $6M.

And you can't deny that Kotsay has value as a bench player. Or would you rather have someone like Josh Fields fill in at LF/RF and 1B?

asindc
02-10-2010, 07:54 PM
The report is that the Braves are offering 1 year 2million with another 2 million deferred. http://twitter.com/TylerKepner/statuses/8920815879

Seriously, if we arent willing to match this then I question the willingness to win. Ok, maybe thats a bit of overreacting, but not much. 3mil this season and 3 mil deferred to next season when we have salaries freed up would be ideal. Please make this happen.

I just want to point this out: If Damon accepts Atlanta's offer, it cannot, repeat CANNOT, be assumed that the Sox did not try to match or better it. Sometimes, a player chooses another team for reasons other than money. With that said, let's carry on...

Craig Grebeck
02-10-2010, 07:58 PM
No, the post was $3M this year, $3M deferred to next year, a total of $6M.

And you can't deny that Kotsay has value as a bench player. Or would you rather have someone like Josh Fields fill in at LF/RF and 1B?
Yes, Kotsay has value as a bench player. Hence, he should make something like $600k. When Damon is crawling around on the market looking for a home in February at such a reduced cost while Kotsay was snatched up in November, someone did something wrong.

asindc
02-10-2010, 08:01 PM
Yes, Kotsay has value as a bench player. Hence, he should make something like $600k. When Damon is crawling around on the market looking for a home in February at such a reduced cost while Kotsay was snatched up in November, someone did something wrong.

:borass:

Did someone call my name?

Slappy
02-10-2010, 08:01 PM
The report is that the Braves are offering 1 year 2million with another 2 million deferred. http://twitter.com/TylerKepner/statuses/8920815879

Seriously, if we arent willing to match this then I question the willingness to win. Ok, maybe thats a bit of overreacting, but not much. 3mil this season and 3 mil deferred to next season when we have salaries freed up would be ideal. Please make this happen.

Couldn't agree more.

It seems kind of unbelievable to me now that KW couldn't anticipate there would be better deals (than Kotsay and Jones) for the money to make around this time of year.

I think everyone understands the nice spark that Kotsay provided the team and the hugely low risk/high reward signing that Jones was. However, if Damon is thinking of signing a deal like that and KW doesn't pursue, you're clearly putting loyalty ahead of winning, which is just not right.

Trying not to get my hopes up, but what happens to Kotsay and Jones if we do sign Damon?

asindc
02-10-2010, 08:02 PM
Couldn't agree more.

It seems kind of unbelievable to me now that KW couldn't anticipate there would be better deals (than Kotsay and Jones) for the money to make around this time of year.

I think everyone understands the nice spark that Kotsay provided the team and the hugely low risk/high reward signing that Jones was. However, if Damon is thinking of signing a deal like that and KW doesn't pursue, you're clearly putting loyalty ahead of winning, which is just not right.

Trying not to get my hopes up, but what happens to Kotsay and Jones if we do sign Damon?

To the bench!

tm1119
02-10-2010, 08:06 PM
Not willingness to win, willingness to overpay for a fading player.

If Kenny wouldn't accept those terms to bring back Pods, Dye or Thome, then why would he do so for Damon?

If he's a bust, would you like the Sox to be on the hook for an extra $3M next year when it could be used for a better, younger player? If Jones is cut, we're only out 500k this year.

So how exactly is Damon fading? His power have been a little skewed from Yankee stadium, but he still hit .282 with a .365 OBP. Hes still a very good player.

Slappy
02-10-2010, 08:10 PM
To the bench!

Fine with me.

Get it done, Kenny!

DirtySox
02-10-2010, 08:11 PM
Supposedly, even with the deferred money, the Braves offer totaled less than 4 million.

http://twitter.com/mlbbowman/statuses/8927220790

DonnieDarko
02-10-2010, 08:16 PM
Supposedly, even with the deferred money, the Braves offer totaled less than 4 million.

http://twitter.com/mlbbowman/statuses/8927220790

:angry:

We'd better be saving money to get Adam Dunn or something. This is just ****ing ridiculous.

Frater Perdurabo
02-10-2010, 08:20 PM
I guess this is me being a broken record - but I will be shocked if the Sox shell out another dime this offseason.

How can they spend a dime if they only have a nickel. :tongue:

DirtySox
02-10-2010, 08:21 PM
I don't think the Sox are interested. If they are, they must still be sitting back and waiting. If their was significant discussion, we would have heard about it by now, especially with the way Boras operates.

Hope I'm wrong though.

Noneck
02-10-2010, 10:27 PM
I dont know if Damon wants to play here but if its about under 4m, it is a sad situation.

stevemcstud
02-10-2010, 10:57 PM
I don't think the Sox are interested. If they are, they must still be sitting back and waiting. If their was significant discussion, we would have heard about it by now, especially with the way Boras operates.

Hope I'm wrong though.

Just like we heard about it at the deadline with Peavy, the Teahen trade, the Juan Pierre trade, the Putz Signing, etc.

Now that I think about it the only singing/trade we heard about before the deal was all but done in the last year was the Rios waiver claim.

My point being hearing nothing is the norm.

DirtySox
02-10-2010, 11:01 PM
Just like we heard about it at the deadline with Peavy, the Teahen trade, the Juan Pierre trade, the Putz Signing, etc.

Now that I think about it the only singing/trade we heard about before the deal was all but done in the last year was the Rios waiver claim.

My point being hearing nothing is the norm.

Perhaps. My point was that dealing with Boras is a completely different animal. Discretion isn't the norm with him. Information is frequently leaked by himself and his connections in order to drum up more interest and spark competition amongst bidders.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed though. Dark horse and all.

johnnyg83
02-10-2010, 11:02 PM
Just like we heard about it at the deadline with Peavy, the Teahen trade, the Juan Pierre trade, the Putz Signing, etc.

Now that I think about it the only singing/trade we heard about before the deal was all but done in the last year was the Rios waiver claim.

My point being hearing nothing is the norm.

I remember the three Ps (putz, Peavy, Pierre) being speculated and rumored about pretty hard if not near the execution date than at least in the general conversation for a while.

stevemcstud
02-10-2010, 11:32 PM
Peavy was out of nowhere....twice. Speculation about Pierre has been around for 2 seasons now but nobody knew we were actively pursuing him and close to a deal until that morning it broke. Putz speculation was "the White Sox are looking to replace Dotel and X,Y, and Z could be a match.

doublem23
02-10-2010, 11:53 PM
Trying not to get my hopes up, but what happens to Kotsay and Jones if we do sign Damon?

Kotsay can stay on the bench, as he's always been known as a solid PH. I would personally like to launch Andruw Jones into low Earth orbit, but I'd settle for just releasing him outright. Its way less of a waste of money than if we actually let him play.

johnnyg83
02-11-2010, 12:38 AM
Peavy was out of nowhere....twice. Speculation about Pierre has been around for 2 seasons now but nobody knew we were actively pursuing him and close to a deal until that morning it broke. Putz speculation was "the White Sox are looking to replace Dotel and X,Y, and Z could be a match.

So maybe "out of nowhere" is too strong a choice of words, except for the first Peavy trade. Because they were all on the radar to some degree.

A. Cavatica
02-11-2010, 12:49 AM
launch Andruw Jones into low Earth orbit

All that space junk eventually has to reenter the atmosphere. How about a solar orbit instead?

oeo
02-11-2010, 01:29 AM
So maybe "out of nowhere" is too strong a choice of words, except for the first Peavy trade. Because they were all on the radar to some degree.

The second Peavy trade was still out of nowhere. Most people assumed that was a one time deal and would probably never come up again. The Sox ripped them off the first time and I thought no way they could get away with it again. Not only that, Peavy was the one who rejected the trade, so who actually thought he would rethink it?

johnnyg83
02-11-2010, 01:59 AM
The second Peavy trade was still out of nowhere. Most people assumed that was a one time deal and would probably never come up again. The Sox ripped them off the first time and I thought no way they could get away with it again. Not only that, Peavy was the one who rejected the trade, so who actually thought he would rethink it?

Then we're defining "out of nowhere" differently. To my mind, you can't almost trade for someone one day and 10 weeks later be shocked when it happens. Semantics?

An out of nowhere trade would have been for Pujols or Santana.

Lillian
02-11-2010, 09:02 AM
The fact that they considered Thome, but decided he just didn't fit suggests that Kenny is not finished putting this team together.
Now Damon is out there at a very affordable cost. If K. W. does not make an effort to acquire him, that would suggest that he has something bigger and better on his mind. Therefore, I take all of this as very encouraging.

Look at it this way. If he were to spend $3 million a year for 2 years on Damon, he would be finished with the offense, not because he would have spent the last dollar available from ownership, but because there would be no place left to play any potential candidates. He still has room on the roster to squeeze in a solid left handed bat. If Thome and Damon don't fit the bill, then I think that he is after someone better.

Jones now stands as the likely D.H. and he is not a left handed hitter. Therefore he does not represent a solution to the problem of not having a left handed power hitter. I simply can't believe that Kenny will accept the current lineup, after having assembled almost all of the other pieces needed to seriously contend.

psyclonis
02-11-2010, 10:00 AM
It's amazing that there are absolutely no rumors involving the Sox. Is Teahen really worth $4M/yr to Kenny but Damon isn't worth $6M?

Even if he wants a two year deal, what exactly would be the downside to $12M/2? (no options/buyouts etc) Hes had at least 530PA a year since '98 with a consistent .350 OBP & .790 OPS.

He'd easily become our 2nd/3rd best hitter...

Simply put, I see KW signing Damon by the 21st.

34 Inch Stick
02-11-2010, 10:38 AM
Why give him 6 million when the Braves are reportedly offering less than an incentive laden 4 million?

Hitmen77
02-11-2010, 10:38 AM
Trying not to get my hopes up, but what happens to Kotsay and Jones if we do sign Damon?

Kotsay isn't an every day player and, based on his last 3 seasons, Jones isn't either. Also, we all know that Quentin has had trouble playing a full season without injury. In other words, I think there would be plenty of at bats to go around even if we did sign Damon.

If Jones surprises us and suddenly returns to his 2005-06 form, then great - that'll be a terrific problem to have. If we somehow have more good position players than we have spots in the lineup, people can always be traded.

Hitmen77
02-11-2010, 10:47 AM
Supposedly, even with the deferred money, the Braves offer totaled less than 4 million.

http://twitter.com/mlbbowman/statuses/8927220790

Given Damon's defensive liability, I'm surprised he's worth much to the Braves. You'd think he'd be worth much more to an AL team than can put many of his at bats in the DH spot.

I don't think the Sox are interested. If they are, they must still be sitting back and waiting. If their was significant discussion, we would have heard about it by now, especially with the way Boras operates.

Hope I'm wrong though.

I think the Sox have been burned and angered by Boras's tactics in the past and don't want to be used by him simply to inflate a player's price. So I wouldn't expect to hear KW or JR express any interest in signing Damon.

That being said, I hope they wouldn't pass on being able to get Johnny Damon for something slightly higher than $4 million. I'll be disappointed if they did. But the trick is to not get sucked into Boras's attempt to trump up a bidding war for him while not letting someone like a division rival (Tigers) be able to add a good bat to their lineup at a bargain price.

Lip Man 1
02-11-2010, 11:00 AM
I'd like to see Damon with the Sox, but my gut feeling is that this is wishful-thinking.

Lip

thedudeabides
02-11-2010, 11:03 AM
Given Damon's defensive liability, I'm surprised he's worth much to the Braves. You'd think he'd be worth much more to an AL team than can put many of his at bats in the DH spot.



I think the Sox have been burned and angered by Boras's tactics in the past and don't want to be used by him simply to inflate a player's price. So I wouldn't expect to hear KW or JR express any interest in signing Damon.

That being said, I hope they wouldn't pass on being able to get Johnny Damon for something slightly higher than $4 million. I'll be disappointed if they did. But the trick is to not get sucked into Boras's attempt to trump up a bidding war for him while not letting someone like a division rival (Tigers) be able to add a good bat to their lineup at a bargain price.

The Braves interest surprises me, as well. They acquired McClouth last year, Melky Cabrera this year to platoon with Matt Diaz, and plan on letting Heyward earn the spot in spring training.

I guess they see a good hitter at a fair price. They could use the offense.

I'm convinced the Sox are completely out in the Damon derby. It sounds like at least three clubs are legitimately interested. The Sox are not going to compete and play Boras' games. The only way they were going to sign him is if they were the only one interested.

I'm usually not Debbie Downer, but I would stop getting your hopes up for the Sox acquiring him. They just don't operate that way when it comes to Boras.

Craig Grebeck
02-11-2010, 11:08 AM
The Braves interest surprises me, as well. They acquired McClouth last year, Melky Cabrera this year to platoon with Matt Diaz, and plan on letting Heyward earn the spot in spring training.

I guess they see a good hitter at a fair price. They could use the offense.

I'm convinced the Sox are completely out in the Damon derby. It sounds like at least three clubs are legitimately interested. The Sox are not going to compete and play Boras' games. The only way they were going to sign him is if they were the only one interested.

I'm usually not Debbie Downer, but I would stop getting your hopes up for the Sox acquiring him. They just don't operate that way when it comes to Boras.
For the most part, I think Frank Wren is not a good GM. But I'm heartened by the fact that they are looking to have some depth and, come July, should Heyward be ready, they can unload Damon for a quality relief arm. It's a really good strategy on his part.

asindc
02-11-2010, 01:34 PM
For the most part, I think Frank Wren is not a good GM. But I'm heartened by the fact that they are looking to have some depth and, come July, should Heyward be ready, they can unload Damon for a quality relief arm. It's a really good strategy on his part.

I would agree with this except for the fact that Damon is a bigger defensive liability in the NL than AL. Spending $4 million+ on a guy like that when you don't need him does not seem like a good decision, IMO.

Craig Grebeck
02-11-2010, 01:39 PM
I would agree with this except for the fact that Damon is a bigger defensive liability in the NL than AL. Spending $4 million+ on a guy like that when you don't need him does not seem like a good decision, IMO.
Yeah, I can reason with that. For me it hinges upon whether or not Boras makes him include a clause that forbids arbitration/draft pick compensation.

Jim Shorts
02-11-2010, 02:06 PM
According to Heyman, ATL has about 6 MM to spend on Damon. That or Heyman has a Boras mole as a source.

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman

Craig Grebeck
02-11-2010, 02:13 PM
According to Heyman, ATL has about 6 MM to spend on Damon. That or Heyman has a Boras mole as a source.

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman
There are times when which it seems like Heyman is Boras. This is one of them.

DirtySox
02-11-2010, 02:31 PM
There are times when which it seems like Heyman is Boras. This is one of them.

Absolutely.


Supposedly the Tigers have topped the Braves offer.

http://twitter.com/KenDavidoff/status/8973721561

DirtySox
02-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Damon is likely to make a decision this week. Tigers have offered the most money, but the White Sox have expressed interest.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4905884

SephClone89
02-11-2010, 03:18 PM
Damon is likely to make a decision this week. Tigers have offered the most money, but the White Sox have expressed interest.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4905884

Interesting. We'll see. I just hope he doesn't go to the Tigers.

DirtySox
02-11-2010, 03:23 PM
Interesting. We'll see. I just hope he doesn't go to the Tigers.

Agreed, but that seems to be the likely destination according to the Stark piece.

mzh
02-11-2010, 03:34 PM
Speaking of the Braves already-crowded outfield, whatever happened to Jordan Schaefer? I know he got sent down after they got McClouth, but is he really in their doghouse now? Just another name for Damon to join among outfield possibilities I guess.

thedudeabides
02-11-2010, 03:41 PM
Agreed, but that seems to be the likely destination according to the Stark piece.

If Stark is even remotely right, and they are going to give Damon $7 million, than he will be a Tiger, and the Tigers outbid everyone by a lot. They do have a deep history with Boras, so I would be surprised if it went any other way.

Craig Grebeck
02-11-2010, 03:42 PM
Speaking of the Braves already-crowded outfield, whatever happened to Jordan Schaefer? I know he got sent down after they got McClouth, but is he really in their doghouse now? Just another name for Damon to join among outfield possibilities I guess.
He got busted for steroids right? Or HGH? Some PED, that's all I know. Tough luck they've had on that front. Flowers was busted when he was a Brave.

DirtySox
02-11-2010, 03:49 PM
Offered 2 years 14 million by the Tigers. Ilitch approved. Seems this will be a done deal soon.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Detroit-Tigers-Johnny-Damon-021110

LoveYourSuit
02-11-2010, 03:55 PM
Offered 2 years 14 million by the Tigers. Illitch approved. Seems this will be a done deal soon.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Detroit-Tigers-Johnny-Damon-021110


Well, it looks like the Tigers can become relevant again in this division. I mean, the bar was not high to begin with.

The Sox have left the window wide open for both the Twins and Tigers to join the race for this division.

DirtySox
02-11-2010, 03:58 PM
Well, it looks like the Tigers can become relevant again in this division. I mean, the bar was not high to begin with.

The Sox have left the window wide open for both the Twins and Tigers to join the race for this division.

Indeed. If the back end of the Tigers rotation is even close to average, I can see all three teams competing.

Hitmen77
02-11-2010, 04:00 PM
Offered 2 years 14 million by the Tigers. Illitch approved. Seems this will be a done deal soon.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Detroit-Tigers-Johnny-Damon-021110

If this report is true, then I guess we can stick a fork in any idea that he might come to the White Sox.

Ah, good old Detroit. Thank goodness they are always there to pay what Boras wants.:angry:

I guess we'll just have to hope that Andruw Jones magically returns to his 2005-2006 form.

dickallen15
02-11-2010, 04:06 PM
If this report is true, then I guess we can stick a fork in any idea that he might come to the White Sox.

Ah, good old Detroit. Thank goodness they are always there to pay what Boras wants.:angry:

I guess we'll just have to hope that Andruw Jones magically returns to his 2005-2006 form.

If Boras settled for $500k guaranteed very quickly into the FA period, you would have to think he doesn't think its likely, or at the very least he wasn't going to remotely sell it.

Boras really needs to do something for Illich. If this report is true, he has saved him yet again.

Sockinchisox
02-11-2010, 04:06 PM
Tigers AND White Sox in serious discussions with Johnny Damon.

It's down to those 2 teams.

COME ON KENNY!

http://twitter.com/JimBowdenXMFOX/status/8977380156

DirtySox
02-11-2010, 04:07 PM
Tigers AND White Sox in serious discussions with Johnny Damon.

COME ON KENNY!

http://twitter.com/JimBowdenXMFOX/status/8977380156

Wow.

TheOldRoman
02-11-2010, 04:07 PM
I don't believe the 2 years/$14 mil deal for a second. I think Borass planted it to get teams to up their deals. Only 2 or 3 teams are interested, the best deal he got recently was 1/$6 mil with half deferred, and the the Tigers are going to offer that contract?! Detroit has shown before that they are that dumb, and although they are used to being played like a fiddle by Borass, I don't believe it. We shall see.

Huisj
02-11-2010, 04:08 PM
Tigers AND White Sox in serious discussions with Johnny Damon.

It's down to those 2 teams.

COME ON KENNY!

http://twitter.com/JimBowdenXMFOX/status/8977380156

That seems very odd. Pierre, Quentin, Rios, Jones, Kotsay, Damon. Good lucks figuring out who plays, Ozzie.

GoGoCrede
02-11-2010, 04:09 PM
Tigers AND White Sox in serious discussions with Johnny Damon.

It's down to those 2 teams.

COME ON KENNY!

http://twitter.com/JimBowdenXMFOX/status/8977380156

Yesss, nothing like trade rumors to pep up a slow day! Go KW, get your guy!

DirtySox
02-11-2010, 04:09 PM
That seems very odd. Pierre, Quentin, Rios, Jones, Kotsay, Damon. Good lucks figuring out who plays, Ozzie.

I think the decision would be fairly obvious. But then again, I'm not Ozzie.

oeo
02-11-2010, 04:11 PM
Tigers AND White Sox in serious discussions with Johnny Damon.

It's down to those 2 teams.

COME ON KENNY!

http://twitter.com/JimBowdenXMFOX/status/8977380156

It's Boras, which means COME ON RICK (HAHN)!

Baron
02-11-2010, 04:11 PM
Come on kenny!!!! Get it done!!!!!

thedudeabides
02-11-2010, 04:12 PM
At the very least, it looks like Kenny is driving up the price. It would be nice to finally see us using Boras against one of our rivals.

SephClone89
02-11-2010, 04:12 PM
Hope Johnny will see that if he joins us, we'll be more competitive than the Tigers would be if he joined them.

DirtySox
02-11-2010, 04:12 PM
If the 7/1 or 14/2 offers were real, I don't see how the Sox could be in that deep.

GoSox2K3
02-11-2010, 04:13 PM
That seems very odd. Pierre, Quentin, Rios, Jones, Kotsay, Damon. Good lucks figuring out who plays, Ozzie.

Yeah, good luck Ozzie if the Sox get an extra solid bat for your lineup.:?:

LoveYourSuit
02-11-2010, 04:13 PM
It's amazing how dificult it is for us to make a bid for a $6 million quality FA player.

oeo
02-11-2010, 04:14 PM
That seems very odd. Pierre, Quentin, Rios, Jones, Kotsay, Damon. Good lucks figuring out who plays, Ozzie.

Signing Damon means Andruw Jones will be outright released. Unless someone gets hurt in Spring Training, which would mean he gets released when they come back. At least I hope they pick Jones and not Nix.

oeo
02-11-2010, 04:19 PM
If the 7/1 or 14/2 offers were real, I don't see how the Sox could be in that deep.

Backloading the money to the second year and deferring more to a third year? I don't think it's all about the money, it's about the money RIGHT NOW. They'll have more payroll space freed next year.

GoGoCrede
02-11-2010, 04:21 PM
From Twitter:


The odds Boras is using the White Sox as leverage in regard to Damon/Detroit are very high.

http://twitter.com/ChiSoxExaminer/status/8978191084

edit - I don't know how official this is...I think it's akin to that Bulls trade rumor last week. Never mind!

LoveYourSuit
02-11-2010, 04:23 PM
Believe it or not, Damon actually will sell some tickets out there. So this might make sense for the Sox.

soltrain21
02-11-2010, 04:25 PM
From Twitter:


The odds Boras is using the White Sox as leverage in regard to Damon/Detroit are very high.

http://twitter.com/ChiSoxExaminer/status/8978191084

edit - I don't know how official this is...I think it's akin to that Bulls trade rumor last week. Never mind!


Who is that guy?

dickallen15
02-11-2010, 04:25 PM
Signing Damon means Andruw Jones will be outright released. Unless someone gets hurt in Spring Training, which would mean he gets released when they come back. At least I hope they pick Jones and not Nix.
I doubt it. Boras may be sleazy but Jones is his client as well.

GoGoCrede
02-11-2010, 04:26 PM
Who is that guy?

I think he's a baseball beat writer for the Examiner. I don't think it's anything official. I've just been watching twitter like a hawk. Sorry. :redface:

DirtySox
02-11-2010, 04:27 PM
From Twitter:


The odds Boras is using the White Sox as leverage in regard to Damon/Detroit are very high.

http://twitter.com/ChiSoxExaminer/status/8978191084

Even if he is some nobody, this is quite likely. Boras is good at what he does.

oeo
02-11-2010, 04:28 PM
I doubt it. Boras may be sleazy but Jones is his client as well.

Ha, then why did he throw Damon to the side to make sure he got the most out of Holliday? Besides, Boras doesn't need to know what the Sox are going to do with Jones at this point.

soltrain21
02-11-2010, 04:28 PM
I think he's a baseball beat writer for the Examiner. I don't think it's anything official. I've just been watching twitter like a hawk. Sorry. :redface:

It seems like he would have no more inside info than you or me. I mean sure it's possible - but I don't think he has some sort of "in" in which we should believe him.

VMSNS
02-11-2010, 04:29 PM
Under the radar, baby!

C'mon, Kenny. Let's get it done. :bandance:

LoveYourSuit
02-11-2010, 04:30 PM
Another Twitter post:
http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/8977540011

GoGoCrede
02-11-2010, 04:31 PM
It seems like he would have no more inside info than you or me. I mean sure it's possible - but I don't think he has some sort of "in" in which we should believe him.

Yeah, I know. Oops. Next time I post something I'll make sure it's from Merkin or something. I hope I didn't dash anyone's hopes or anything.

http://twitter.com/JimBowdenXMFOX - this is the one I'm keeping an eye on, he broke the news that we were still in talks along with the Tigers.

soltrain21
02-11-2010, 04:32 PM
yeah, i know. Oops. Next time i post something i'll make sure it's from merkin or something. I hope i didn't dash anyone's hopes or anything.

http://twitter.com/jimbowdenxmfox - this is the one i'm keeping an eye on, he broke the news that we were still in talks along with the tigers.

you are dead to me.

Sargeant79
02-11-2010, 04:32 PM
Another Twitter post:
http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/8977540011

Twitter is blocked at work...little help?

DirtySox
02-11-2010, 04:33 PM
This makes me cringe. Really? Where would he fit in? Ugh.

Johny Damon? Don't see him fitting in our lineup. I hope these are just rumors on the internet.

http://twitter.com/oguillenjr/status/8978312448

LoveYourSuit
02-11-2010, 04:33 PM
As far as a move to "block" another team from the division, this one (Damon) makes a hell of a lot more sense than blocking anyone in getting Alex Rios.

GoGoCrede
02-11-2010, 04:34 PM
This makes me cringe. Really? Where would he fit in? Ugh.



http://twitter.com/oguillenjr/status/8978312448

LOL. I'm glad we got Ozzie Jr's thoughts on the matter. I was worried. :redneck

As for the link that LoveYourSuit posted, all it said was:

Nothing like an intra-division bidding war to keep the Hot Stove going into mid-Feb. #Damon (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Damon) #Tigers (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Tigers) #WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox) #MLB (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23MLB)

LoveYourSuit
02-11-2010, 04:34 PM
This makes me cringe. Really? Where would he fit in? Ugh.



http://twitter.com/oguillenjr/status/8978312448


Well, it's official. The entire Guillen family is eating stupid pills for breakfast.
:rolleyes:

dickallen15
02-11-2010, 04:35 PM
Ha, then why did he throw Damon to the side to make sure he got the most out of Holliday? Besides, Boras doesn't need to know what the Sox are going to do with Jones at this point.

You said they would immediately release him. Jones is right handed and was signed to be a back up. Damon wouldn't cost him that role, only perhaps a more significant one. There is no way the White Sox sign Damon and release Jones unless he stinks up spring training.

SoxGirl4Life
02-11-2010, 04:36 PM
Here we go. We're bidding against the Tigers? I don't know what to think... :?:

According to ESPN.com, we only have 4mm/per to offer.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/report-white-sox-express-interest-in-damon.html

LoveYourSuit
02-11-2010, 04:37 PM
Had the Sox decided on this a few weeks ago and perhaps made a 1 yr $7 million offer guranteed, would it have come down to a bidding war like this?


Knowing Boras, maybe. But I'd be pissed if they could have avoided this and gotten their guy much earlier.

TheOldRoman
02-11-2010, 04:37 PM
This makes me cringe. Really? Where would he fit in? Ugh.



http://twitter.com/oguillenjr/status/8978312448 Meh. His opinion is no more valid than yours or mine. He could be a mouthpiece for Ozzie, but I don't know. I don't think he is as obsessed with the Sox as us, to the point where Ozzie is calling him every few hours to update him on who the Sox are looking at. Who knows if he even heard of it from Ozzie. As for Damon not fitting in, that is ridiculous.

soltrain21
02-11-2010, 04:38 PM
Here we go. We're bidding against the Tigers? I don't know what to think... :?:

Why wouldn't we be? Tigers surely have started a ton of money over the last couple years. Poorly, but they are spending it.

DSpivack
02-11-2010, 04:38 PM
So, if Boras were trying to use one team as leverage for another, and he tells team A that team B has offered such a contract, does team A's GM then call up team B's GM to confirm that? Or is it more of a poker game?

oeo
02-11-2010, 04:38 PM
You said they would immediately release him. Jones is right handed and was signed to be a back up. Damon wouldn't cost him that role, only perhaps a more significant one. There is no way the White Sox sign Damon and release Jones unless he stinks up spring training.

I said they would release him unless someone got injured in Spring Training. Signing Damon renders Jones useless on this team. Hell, he's pretty useless right now.

And again, it's really none of Boras' business in terms of Damon signing and what the Sox are going to do with another one of his clients. I honestly don't think he cares much about Jones if he can get more money out of Damon. THAT is how he operates. Boras is about Boras, not his clients.

SephClone89
02-11-2010, 04:38 PM
B&B: "what the hell would the White Sox do with Johnny Damon?"

:rolleyes:

Sargeant79
02-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Had the Sox decided on this a few weeks ago and perhaps made a 1 yr $7 million offer guranteed, would it have come down to a bidding war like this?



Of course it would have.

LoveYourSuit
02-11-2010, 04:40 PM
B&B: "what the hell would the White Sox do with Johnny Damon?"

:rolleyes:

He's a quality bat, I don't understand what people here are missing.

If we are not going to stack the middle of the order with traditional thumpers, then let's stack the top with quality hitters.

That's the point.

veeter
02-11-2010, 04:40 PM
We owe the Tigers for the Miguel Cabrera thing.

LoveYourSuit
02-11-2010, 04:41 PM
Dammit, I have all my calls going to voice mail.

I can't get any work done.

GoGoCrede
02-11-2010, 04:41 PM
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
#tigers (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23tigers), #white (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23white) sox have emerged as leading bidders for damon. fox says detroit may offer $14 million, 2 years

Cripes, I think this was already said on this thread. I need to back away from twitter, methinks.

hawkjt
02-11-2010, 04:41 PM
B&B: "what the hell would the White Sox do with Johnny Damon?"

:rolleyes:


That was Bernstein,who hates everything cept for Cutler...then Boers discussed it with him about having Damon at DH and they agreed it would be an upgrade and probably worth 3 wins....

Their normal reaction to anything is...''its bad''.:redface:

dickallen15
02-11-2010, 04:42 PM
I said they would release him unless someone got injured in Spring Training. Signing Damon renders Jones useless on this team. Hell, he's pretty useless right now.

And again, it's really none of Boras' business in terms of Damon signing and what the Sox are going to do with another one of his clients. I honestly don't think he cares much about Jones if he can get more money out of Damon. THAT is how he operates. Boras is about Boras, not his clients.

He's RH power off the bench. I agree he's pretty useless with Damon and without, but he's better on the roster with Damon, which means his playing time will be cut back significantly. Who knows, maybe signing Damon means another move or 2.

At least if the Sox don't sign Damon, we will know what kind of money they have to play with.