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spawn
01-19-2010, 05:33 PM
Pudge rips McGwire (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/fisk-rips-mcgwire-calls-steroids-claim-a-crock.html)

Frontman
01-19-2010, 06:42 PM
Pudge rips McGwire (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/fisk-rips-mcgwire-calls-steroids-claim-a-crock.html)

Way to go Fisk!!!

Can't argue with a single point he made.

Brian26
01-19-2010, 09:39 PM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/fisk-rips-mcgwire-calls-steroids-claim-a-crock.html

Lots of good stuff here. Fisk spent a lot of time in the gym back in the 80s trying to keep his body from breaking down from all of his years behind the plate, so you know it eats him alive that so many guys tried to take shortcuts.

Madvora
01-19-2010, 09:56 PM
That comment about the 39 year old home runs is interesting. I never heard that before.

Bobby Thigpen
01-19-2010, 09:57 PM
I love comments sections of papers.

Some guy in there says- This coming from a guy who played his entire career with a little pinch between his gum and cheek.

Ya. Steroids and chewing are the same thing.:rolleyes:

LongLiveFisk
01-19-2010, 10:01 PM
I love comments sections of papers.

Some guy in there says- This coming from a guy who played his entire career with a little pinch between his gum and cheek.

Ya. Steroids and chewing are the same thing.:rolleyes:

That's why they shouldn't allow comments after these articles. Too many dumbasses.

Brian26
01-19-2010, 10:08 PM
That comment about the 39 year old home runs is interesting. I never heard that before.

That's actually a bit of a misleading comment. Weight training, nutrition, and medicine are all far more advanced now compared to the late 60s/early 70s when Aaron and Mays were finishing their careers, and certainly more than when Ruth was finishing his in the 30s. It shouldn't be unheard of for athletes to produce at a later age now compared to earlier eras.

Notwithstanding that:

Hank Aaron, '73 season, age 39: 40 HRs
Mays, '70 season, Age 39, 28 HRs
Ruth, '34 season, Age 39, 22 HRs

Avg = 30 HRs

Not sure where Fisk is getting his numbers.

RadioheadRocks
01-19-2010, 10:22 PM
I love comments sections of papers.

Some guy in there says- This coming from a guy who played his entire career with a little pinch between his gum and cheek.

Ya. Steroids and chewing are the same thing.:rolleyes:

IIRC although Fisk was an admitted tobacco chewer (and even did ads for Skoal or Copenhagen back in the late 70s) he was a part of SOS ("Stamp Out Smokeless") while he was still playing for the Sox.

eastchicagosoxfan
01-20-2010, 09:03 AM
I'd like to see Frank Thomas's reaction to Pudge's comments? The Big Hurt can be the spokesman for the guys who played clean throughout the steroid era. He could use Fisk's comments as a springboard.

g0g0
01-20-2010, 11:44 AM
All I have to say is "Yup!"

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=4841486&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

SOXPHILE
01-20-2010, 11:56 AM
Preach on Brother Carlton. AMEN.

bigsoxfan420
01-20-2010, 12:16 PM
That was so great. His quote about catching, while all McSteroids did was stand there at first base was awesome (Excuuuuuse me!). Way to put some perspective on the situation. More HOFers need to come out with these type of comments.

gregoriop
01-20-2010, 12:17 PM
I think there was already a thread on this

Boondock Saint
01-20-2010, 12:28 PM
That was so great. His quote about catching, while all McSteroids did was stand there at first base was awesome (Excuuuuuse me!). Way to put some perspective on the situation. More HOFers need to come out with these type of comments.

That was easily the dumbest thing he said in that piece. Playing 1B instead of catching doesn't make your stats any less legitimate. I agree with his comments on steroid use, but that one comment just made him sound bitter.

asindc
01-20-2010, 12:30 PM
That was easily the dumbest thing he said in that piece. Playing 1B instead of catching doesn't make your stats any less legitimate. I agree with his comments on steroid use, but that one comment just made him sound bitter.

I think his point is that he had to play through all kinds of pain as a catcher, yet did not succumb to PEDs to give him an edge.

beasly213
01-20-2010, 12:33 PM
That was easily the dumbest thing he said in that piece. Playing 1B instead of catching doesn't make your stats any less legitimate. I agree with his comments on steroid use, but that one comment just made him sound bitter.


No that was the best thing said in the article. Fisks point was McGuire claimed he needed to take Roids to stay on the field. Fisk who played a much tougher position never took them to stay on the field.

It had nothing to do with hitting numbers.

downstairs
01-20-2010, 01:57 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=4841486

Great article. Fisk was never one to hold back punches. Good to see he's still outspoken.

(If this should be in Talking Baseball, my apologies)

tick53
01-20-2010, 02:53 PM
:bandance: Tell 'em Pudgie!

doublem23
01-20-2010, 03:31 PM
So he knew throughout his careers about guys using PEDs, but he waited until 15 years into retirement, after several of them already outed themselves, to lay the smack on them.

What a guy

Noneck
01-20-2010, 03:44 PM
So he knew throughout his careers about guys using PEDs, but he waited until 15 years into retirement, after several of them already outed themselves, to lay the smack on them.

What a guy


And has nothing to say about the blosox peds guys Ortiz and Ramirez, the bash boys for their championships.

khan
01-20-2010, 03:52 PM
So he knew throughout his careers about guys using PEDs, but he waited until 15 years into retirement, after several of them already outed themselves, to lay the smack on them.

What a guy

Sure.

And if there was someone at your workplace that you KNEW was cooking the books, or cheating on his/her timesheet, or falsifying documentation, or taking some other shortcut to get ahead but you DIDN'T have "the goods" on that person, you'd blow the whistle on them? Give me a break.

In actuality, without actual verifiable evidence, any whistleblower would be shouted down by the guilty party, and made to look petty by management and by customers as well.

If anyone has the moral authority to speak on this, it would be a Hall of Famer who [apparently] did it cleanly like pudge. That he's speaking out now is to his credit.

bigsoxfan420
01-20-2010, 04:07 PM
I think his point is that he had to play through all kinds of pain as a catcher, yet did not succumb to PEDs to give him an edge.


That's what I was thinking and why I thought it was so funny.:redneck

Waysouthsider
01-20-2010, 06:49 PM
I'm glad Pudge ...and others...are calling Mark McJuicer out....He is an evil, cheating dog....his total lack of humility and outright dishonesty is just sickening....what a jackass.

SteveFakeBlood
01-20-2010, 08:09 PM
I think a really interesting part of his statement was when he said that steroids give you more "physical and mental acuity". Which steroids don't particularly, but amphetamines do...

I just finished reading Ball Four and from as early as the '60s (maybe earlier) through up until a few years ago, ballplayers were regularly using "pep pills" (i.e. amphetamines, usually legal drugs over-the-counter or prescription, baseball nixed them relatively quietly a few years ago). While they didn't make players stronger and their results were more unpredictable, they certainly did help a lot of players stay more mentally and physically "acute" during games. Personally, I think this isn't cheating and akin to using supplements from a health food store- but I can definitely understand the argument that years of using "pep pills" is a form of cheating that while not as severe as steroids might still be considering cheating. I wonder if Fisk was also making a subtle dig at amphetamine use in his statement. Maybe I'm reading too much into it...

Maybe some old-timers have a better perspective on this...

~Steve

Frontman
01-20-2010, 08:28 PM
Sure.

And if there was someone at your workplace that you KNEW was cooking the books, or cheating on his/her timesheet, or falsifying documentation, or taking some other shortcut to get ahead but you DIDN'T have "the goods" on that person, you'd blow the whistle on them? Give me a break.

In actuality, without actual verifiable evidence, any whistleblower would be shouted down by the guilty party, and made to look petty by management and by customers as well.

If anyone has the moral authority to speak on this, it would be a Hall of Famer who [apparently] did it cleanly like pudge. That he's speaking out now is to his credit.

Dan Bernstein, is that you?!?!?!

Seriously though, Bernsie made a very valid point of it all on WSCR today; and I agree with it. It's easy to point the finger at those speaking out and say, "Why didn't you say something then??!?!?!" After complaining for years saying, "Why doesn't anyone say something, even after the fact!?!?!?!"

It's easy to say someone should of said something if they were clean. But we weren't a part of it. We don't know how many players WANTED to speak out, but were afraid to get railroaded or put a target on their back.

Jim Shorts
01-20-2010, 10:02 PM
Dan Bernstein, is that you?!?!?!

Seriously though, Bernsie made a very valid point of it all on WSCR today; and I agree with it. It's easy to point the finger at those speaking out and say, "Why didn't you say something then??!?!?!" After complaining for years saying, "Why doesn't anyone say something, even after the fact!?!?!?!"

It's easy to say someone should of said something if they were clean. But we weren't a part of it. We don't know how many players WANTED to speak out, but were afraid to get railroaded or put a target on their back.


Lemme guess...Boers went down on Bernsie in total agreement?

Frontman
01-20-2010, 10:04 PM
Lemme guess...Boers went down on Bernsie in total agreement?

No, actually Boers didn't fully agree with him on it. He felt there was a significant difference when you whistleblow on a crime that hurts others versus some jacked up 'roider destroying his own nuts. (And that's cleaning it up quite a bit from the way Boers said it.)

TheBigHurtST
01-21-2010, 01:53 AM
I'd like to see Frank Thomas's reaction to Pudge's comments? The Big Hurt can be the spokesman for the guys who played clean throughout the steroid era. He could use Fisk's comments as a springboard.

A commenter in that thread insinuated Frank as a steroid user, or a "cheater." He mentioned Frank, McGwire, Canseco and Palmeiro all together. Notice the one thing (well, there's really a LOT of things) Frank doesn't have in common with all these guys?

Frontman
01-21-2010, 09:12 AM
A commenter in that thread insinuated Frank as a steroid user, or a "cheater." He mentioned Frank, McGwire, Canseco and Palmeiro all together. Notice the one thing (well, there's really a LOT of things) Frank doesn't have in common with all these guys?

Hair?

Oblong
01-21-2010, 09:24 AM
I the idea to use these numbers from Joe Posnanski's recent column on this.

Piazza, Bench, and Berra averaged 11 HR at age 37.

Fisk hit 37 at age 37. A difference of 26.

Mays, Aaron, and Ruth didn't average 18 at age 39, they averaged 30. Bonds didn't hit 73 at age 39, he hit 45. A difference of 15.

26 > 15.

I love Pudge and am not suggesting he did anything, I don't think he did, but for fairness I think it's important to point those number out. He has a very valid point but he just has to make it a different way. He had an abnormally high HR total compared to 3 top peers at an advanced age too.

khan
01-21-2010, 12:57 PM
Dan Bernstein, is that you?!?!?!
No. Why, did they say something similar to my post on the radio?

It's easy to say someone should of said something if they were clean. But we weren't a part of it. We don't know how many players WANTED to speak out, but were afraid to get railroaded or put a target on their back.
Agreed. That's why I responded to the other poster who wrote "what a guy." NO ONE would be willing to blow the whistle on a co-worker at their work, WITHOUT the evidence to back themselves up. So it was a little silly to suggest that a ballplayer would do the same.

Frontman
01-21-2010, 03:16 PM
No. Why, did they say something similar to my post on the radio?


Agreed. That's why I responded to the other poster who wrote "what a guy." NO ONE would be willing to blow the whistle on a co-worker at their work, WITHOUT the evidence to back themselves up. So it was a little silly to suggest that a ballplayer would do the same.

Just about an hour before you posted it. Its a very valid argument.


Example: I know people who cheat on their time sheets at work; but to have solid proof to whistleblow it?

Hard to do. I risk putting my own job on the line; let alone my respect and word if the powers that be don't believe me.