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View Full Version : Sammy's hug bugged Cubs


kittle42
01-13-2010, 11:31 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=4820552

I'm surprised Trachsel was bothered by anything that delayed the game, given the speed with which he pitched.

dickallen15
01-13-2010, 11:34 AM
I'm surprised a guy as mediocre as Trachsel who was paid over $41 million in his career, wishes he didn't play during this era either.

cws05champ
01-13-2010, 12:32 PM
I'm surprised a guy as mediocre as Trachsel who was paid over $41 million in his career, wishes he didn't play during this era either.
It doesn't matter if he was a mediocre pitcher or not. He is right. If I was a pitcher and someone on the other team hits a HR off me, then my OF went and congratulated him and hugged him, I would be pissed too. It's called being a team...but Sammy clearly didn't care what his teammates thought.

gregoriop
01-13-2010, 12:38 PM
It doesn't matter if he was a mediocre pitcher or not. He is right. If I was a pitcher and someone on the other team hits a HR off me, then my OF went and congratulated him and hugged him, I would be pissed too. It's called being a team...but Sammy clearly didn't care what his teammates thought.


I don't think it's as cut and dry as you say it to be. At the time, it was one of the biggest moments in baseball history.

dickallen15
01-13-2010, 12:41 PM
How come no one mentions Grace shaking his hand as he rounded first? I don't like Sammy either, but this is just sour grapes. If Trachsel hasn't said anything about his disgust until over 11 years after the fact, he should just keep quiet.

gregoriop
01-13-2010, 12:43 PM
You know what, I don't remember anyone on the other team hugging Hank Aaron in the footage of him rounding the bases after 715. It may have happened, but I don't remember it. Either way, I don't it's a huge deal.

thedudeabides
01-13-2010, 12:43 PM
It doesn't matter if he was a mediocre pitcher or not. He is right. If I was a pitcher and someone on the other team hits a HR off me, then my OF went and congratulated him and hugged him, I would be pissed too. It's called being a team...but Sammy clearly didn't care what his teammates thought.

I agree, I would have been pissed too. Sammy never cared about the team and ran all over that clubhouse. What's interesting is this might be the first teammate to publicly calling out Sammy for cheating. I may be wrong, but I don't remember anyone else doing it.

dickallen15
01-13-2010, 12:44 PM
I don't think it's as cut and dry as you say it to be. At the time, it was one of the biggest moments in baseball history.
And Sammy was in a race with him to see who could do it first. I have no problem with that, even if it was a phony as it was. And if it was phony like Trachsel suggests, then who really cares?

dickallen15
01-13-2010, 12:47 PM
If the problem was a hold up in the game because Sammy came marching in from the OF, that is BS too. The game was going to be held up regardless.

thedudeabides
01-13-2010, 12:49 PM
How come no one mentions Grace shaking his hand as he rounded first? I don't like Sammy either, but this is just sour grapes. If Trachsel hasn't said anything about his disgust until over 11 years after the fact, he should just keep quiet.

I think the difference is he ran out from right field. It sort of shows the pitcher up. The guy is competing and it brings attention to his failure. More than that I think it just boiled over from all of the other clubhouse crap Sammy initiated.

Maybe, not a big deal, but I would have been annoyed by it. Don't know if I would have held a grudge for 11 years though. There is definitely some other angst going on there.

dickallen15
01-13-2010, 12:53 PM
I think the difference is he ran out from right field. It sort of shows the pitcher up. The guy is competing and it brings attention to his failure. More than that I think it just boiled over from all of the other clubhouse crap Sammy initiated.

Maybe, not a big deal, but I would have been annoyed by it. Don't know if I would have held a grudge for 11 years though. There is definitely some other angst going on there.

I don't see the difference. They both were congratulating a guy for doing something no one had ever done, and Sosa was tied in with him, now more ways than one. So if he went over and hugged him while the game was going to be held up, who cares? The Cubs had no chance at the division and wound up in the playoffs anyway, so I don't see Trachsel's beef.

BTW, McGwire's HR in the 4th made the game 2-1 Cubs. Trachsel gave up 5 runs in the sixth and the Cubs lost 6-3.

eriqjaffe
01-13-2010, 12:57 PM
Don't know if I would have held a grudge for 11 years though.Trachsel always did work slow...

dickallen15
01-13-2010, 01:03 PM
Trachsel always did work slow...
That's pretty good.

thedudeabides
01-13-2010, 01:08 PM
Trachsel always did work slow...

That's good stuff.

I don't see the difference. They both were congratulating a guy for doing something no one had ever done, and Sosa was tied in with him, now more ways than one. So if he went over and hugged him while the game was going to be held up, who cares? The Cubs had no chance at the division and wound up in the playoffs anyway, so I don't see Trachsel's beef.

BTW, McGwire's HR in the 4th made the game 2-1 Cubs. Trachsel gave up 5 runs in the sixth and the Cubs lost 6-3.

I get you. I'm just saying, knowing how I was when competing I would have been pissed. But, if it's carried on this long, it had more to with just that gesture.

spawn
01-13-2010, 01:19 PM
I think the difference is he ran out from right field. It sort of shows the pitcher up. The guy is competing and it brings attention to his failure. More than that I think it just boiled over from all of the other clubhouse crap Sammy initiated.
I remember at the time that he didn't want to be the pitcher to give up #62, so I can understand him being upset about Sammy going out of his way to run in from right field to congratulate McGwire. And obviously he wasn't the only one that was upset about it.

Smokey Burg
01-13-2010, 01:35 PM
With as phony as all that turned out to be, Traschel comes out now that it bothered him? Big deal. Shut up and enjoy your retirement.

soxinem1
01-13-2010, 02:31 PM
It doesn't matter if he was a mediocre pitcher or not. He is right. If I was a pitcher and someone on the other team hits a HR off me, then my OF went and congratulated him and hugged him, I would be pissed too. It's called being a team...but Sammy clearly didn't care what his teammates thought.

I see your point, but I also remember Eric Show sitting on the mound like a reform school kid, all balled up, when Pete Rose broke Ty Cobb's record for hits. Show acted like an ass, barely acknowledging Rose's feat.

In this case, though, since both teams had cheaters on them, they deserved each other.

thomas35forever
01-13-2010, 02:58 PM
I'm not going to get worked over something that happened more than a decade ago, especially since that moment is tainted now anyway.

TommyJohn
01-13-2010, 03:14 PM
You know what, I don't remember anyone on the other team hugging Hank Aaron in the footage of him rounding the bases after 715. It may have happened, but I don't remember it. Either way, I don't it's a huge deal.
No one hugged him, but Steve Garvey shook hands with Aaron as he rounded first base.

downstairs
01-13-2010, 04:08 PM
Good. I agree. A pat on the back from an infielder as someone crosses the basepaths- fine. But no, the opposing player is still the opposing player.

gr8mexico
01-13-2010, 04:19 PM
You know what, I don't remember anyone on the other team hugging Hank Aaron in the footage of him rounding the bases after 715. It may have happened, but I don't remember it. Either way, I don't it's a huge deal.
I think Steve Trachsel is just full of crap. Hank Aaron got a high five from the second baseman when he was rounding the bases.
Mark McGwire got high fives and Hugs while he was rounding the bases from the other Cubs players.
Steve Trachsel Who you crapping!!!!

Here is a link to McGwires home run.
This is the only video I could find.
Warning: Explicit language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMqTnYrgiKs

Frontman
01-13-2010, 06:35 PM
How come no one mentions Grace shaking his hand as he rounded first? I don't like Sammy either, but this is just sour grapes. If Trachsel hasn't said anything about his disgust until over 11 years after the fact, he should just keep quiet.

Trachsel sounds petty with this. Considering when Jeter surpassed Lou Gerhig with the most hits as a Yankee; the other team showed appreciation as well. I can appreciate that Trachsel is forever linked to this moment; which now turns out to be tainted. But be the bigger person and let it go.

So, if a rookie gets his first hit; in Trachsel's mind, why pause to make sure the kid gets the ball then?

Why acknowledge any career milestone in his book?

If Trachsel had thrown a pefect game on the road; should the fans not acknowledge it?

dickallen15
01-13-2010, 06:53 PM
I think Steve Trachsel is just full of crap. Hank Aaron got a high five from the second baseman when he was rounding the bases.
Mark McGwire got high fives and Hugs while he was rounding the bases from the other Cubs players.
Steve Trachsel Who you crapping!!!!

Here is a link to McGwires home run.
This is the only video I could find.
Warning: Explicit language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMqTnYrgiKs

So Sammy wasn't even the first Cub who hugged him. Or the second. In fact, every Cub McGwire past offered him congrats.

TommyJohn
01-13-2010, 07:23 PM
Trachsel sounds petty with this. Considering when Jeter surpassed Lou Gerhig with the most hits as a Yankee; the other team showed appreciation as well. I can appreciate that Trachsel is forever linked to this moment; which now turns out to be tainted. But be the bigger person and let it go.

So, if a rookie gets his first hit; in Trachsel's mind, why pause to make sure the kid gets the ball then?

Why acknowledge any career milestone in his book?

If Trachsel had thrown a pefect game on the road; should the fans not acknowledge it?
Trachsel is a jerk. I remember his quote after giving up no. 62: "I'm glad that a fan didn't catch it (a Cardinal employee caught it) so he could charge a ridiculous amount for it." I say, why not? HE charged his employers ridiculous amounts to give them up.

DrCrawdad
01-13-2010, 08:49 PM
I think what this story makes clear just how much other players hated The Sammy Sosa Show, even many of his own teammates could barely contain their disdain for him. Running in from RF and jumping up and down, inserting himself into the festivities highlights just how much of a self-serving jackass Sosa was, even in the terms of selfish MLB players Sosa stood-out.

I can't wait for the day when Sosa's story gets told. At some point Sosa's mules will talk.

Nellie_Fox
01-14-2010, 12:11 AM
There is a pretty big difference between congratulating a guy as he rounds the bases and running in from the outfield to join in a big celebration behind home plate.

Jpgr91
01-14-2010, 01:19 AM
The 1998 Season and Home Run chase was a defining moment in baseball history. Most media outlets covered the chase, and they covered the chase very positively.That season brought so much interest back into the game that left with the strike. For a lot of people, the moment between Sosa and Mcgwire encapsulated the chase and the season. Regardless of what we think of the characters involved, that was a huge time for baseball. I have no problem that they hugged and that video / picture was distrusted all over the place giving good vibes to the casual baseball fans all over the world.

dickallen15
01-14-2010, 06:37 AM
There is a pretty big difference between congratulating a guy as he rounds the bases and running in from the outfield to join in a big celebration behind home plate.

Maybe if the game wasn't being held up anyway for a celebration. Those two were the story of 1998 that season. Did they save baseball? I don't buy that for a second, but it was something that captured a lot of attention. If Trachsel was upset Sosa ran in and hugged him during that celebration, he should have been pissed each of his infielders congratuted him as the game was being played and his 3B and C each gave him a hug during play.

TheCommander
01-14-2010, 08:50 AM
How come no one mentions Grace shaking his hand as he rounded first? I don't like Sammy either, but this is just sour grapes. If Trachsel hasn't said anything about his disgust until over 11 years after the fact, he should just keep quiet.

It isn't like he held a press conference to bitch about this or brought up the subject himself-he was a guest on a radio show. If you listen to the interview, they were specifically asking him about Sosa and McGwire's celebration. Asked and answered. :shrug:

spawn
01-14-2010, 08:54 AM
It isn't like he held a press conference to bitch about this or brought up the subject himself-he was a guest on a radio show. If you listen to the interview, they were specifically asking him about Sosa and McGwire's celebration. Asked and answered. :shrug:
Agreed. I don't understand why Traschel is getting slammed for this.

dickallen15
01-14-2010, 08:55 AM
It isn't like he held a press conference to bitch about this or brought up the subject himself-he was a guest on a radio show. If you listen to the interview, they were specifically asking him about Sosa and McGwire's celebration. Asked and answered. :shrug:

Did he at all mention the other players offering congrats and hugs, and the Maris family at the game holding it up while everyone celebrated? As was stated before, he obviously didn't like Sosa, which is understandable, but if he had a problem with Sammy that night, there should be a long line of teammates he had a problem with.

gr8mexico
01-14-2010, 09:11 AM
Agreed. I don't understand why Traschel is getting slammed for this.
I dont understand why Sammy is getting slammed for this either.
I agree Sosa was an ahole but there is no reason why Traschel should be bashing him because he came in to give McGwire a hug.
Everybody was doing it and Sosa being a big part of the Home Run race had to come in to congratulate him.
What did you expect Sosa to do. Stay in RF and look like a big baby
because he lost the race.

spawn
01-14-2010, 09:11 AM
Did he at all mention the other players offering congrats and hugs, and the Maris family at the game holding it up while everyone celebrated? As was stated before, he obviously didn't like Sosa, which is understandable, but if he had a problem with Sammy that night, there should be a long line of teammates he had a problem with.
As has been mentioned, Sosa is the only Cubs player that went out of his way to congratulate McGwire. The other outfielders stayed at their positions. But Sammy felt a need to share the spotlight with McGwire.

spawn
01-14-2010, 09:13 AM
I dont understand why Sammy is getting slammed for this either.
I agree Sosa was an ahole but there is no reason why Traschel should be bashing him because he came in to give McGwire a hug.
Everybody was doing it and Sosa being a big part of the Home Run race had to come in to congratulate him.
What did you expect Sosa to do. Stay in RF and look like a big baby
because he lost the race.
No. Sammy could've stayed at his position, and no one would've thought he was a baby for doing so.

dickallen15
01-14-2010, 09:14 AM
As has been mentioned, Sosa is the only Cubs player that went out of his way to congratulate McGwire. The other outfielders stayed at their positions. But Sammy felt a need to share the spotlight with McGwire.
But he was sharing the spotlight with him all season. If he didn't congratulate him as was stated a post or 2 above, he would have been accused of being a big baby. The game was being held up anyway. Sosa has a lot of faults, but that night he did nothing wrong. In fact, if there was video of the celebration after he rounded the bases, I'm sure you will find more than Sammy from the Cubs offering their congratulations. Trachsel is a baby. How does anyone know for sure he wasn't on steroids? I maintain pitchers used as much if not more than position players. I wonder who distracted him enough to go 8-18 in 1999.

spawn
01-14-2010, 09:24 AM
But he was sharing the spotlight with him all season. If he didn't congratulate him as was stated a post or 2 above, he would have been accused of being a big baby. The game was being held up anyway. Sosa has a lot of faults, but that night he did nothing wrong. In fact, if there was video of the celebration after he rounded the bases, I'm sure you will find more than Sammy from the Cubs offering their congratulations. Trachsel is a baby. How does anyone know for sure he wasn't on steroids? I maintain pitchers used as much if not more than position players. I wonder who distracted him enough to go 8-18 in 1999.
I don't think he would've been viewed a baby had he stayd out in right field and applauded. And so what if he shared the stage with McGwire all season? The other players congratulated him as he was rounding the bases. And again, Traschel was asked his opinion of it. It's not like he had an ax to grind and just blurted this out just to get in a dig. And if what he said was true, he wasn't the only one on that team to have taken issue with it. Seems to me the players had other issues with Sham-Me, and this was just another incident in a long list of them.

RedHeadPaleHoser
01-14-2010, 09:30 AM
I think what this story makes clear just how much other players hated The Sammy Sosa Show, even many of his own teammates could barely contain their disdain for him. Running in from RF and jumping up and down, inserting himself into the festivities highlights just how much of a self-serving jackass Sosa was, even in the terms of selfish MLB players Sosa stood-out.

I can't wait for the day when Sosa's story gets told. At some point Sosa's mules will talk.

Or is this their way of distancing themselves from the BS a decade later? Part of this irks me insofar as the "honesty" they're sharing now....but when they were part of the PR gravy train, they didn't say anything.

If you disagreed with it that much, open your piehole when it happens....otherwise, shut up.

gr8mexico
01-14-2010, 09:34 AM
Or is this their way of distancing themselves from the BS a decade later? Part of this irks me insofar as the "honesty" they're sharing now....but when they were part of the PR gravy train, they didn't say anything.

If you disagreed with it that much, open your piehole when it happens....otherwise, shut up.
http://www.smileyhut.com/excited/clap2.gif

SaltyPretzel
01-14-2010, 10:21 AM
Didn't they shoot off fireworks in San Diego after one of Sosa's home runs that year?

Nellie_Fox
01-14-2010, 10:27 AM
Maybe if the game wasn't being held up anyway for a celebration. Those two were the story of 1998 that season. Did they save baseball? I don't buy that for a second, but it was something that captured a lot of attention. If Trachsel was upset Sosa ran in and hugged him during that celebration, he should have been pissed each of his infielders congratuted him as the game was being played and his 3B and C each gave him a hug during play.You missed my point. There's a difference between congratulating a guy as he goes by you on the infield and running in to celebrate his having hit a home run against your team. Congratulations is an acknowledgment of an accomplishment. Celebration is being happy about it. Plus, there is no question Sammy wanted to be in the picture.

dickallen15
01-14-2010, 10:41 AM
You missed my point. There's a difference between congratulating a guy as he goes by you on the infield and running in to celebrate his having hit a home run against your team. Congratulations is an acknowledgment of an accomplishment. Celebration is being happy about it. Plus, there is no question Sammy wanted to be in the picture.

What's the difference between Sammy hugging him and the thirdbaseman and catcher hugging him? I'm sure Sammy wanted to be in the picture, but I'm pretty sure if it was Sammy that had gotten there first against the Cardinals, McGwire would have gone over and acknowledge the accomplishment while the crowd and others celebrated, and no one would have ever said a boo. Of course, it took over 11 years for something to ever come out about this.

Nellie_Fox
01-14-2010, 10:47 AM
What's the difference between Sammy hugging him and the thirdbaseman and catcher hugging him?Because they were right there. It's a congratulations. They didn't have to come joyously running in to join the celebration. If you can't see that difference, then I don't know what to say.

spawn
01-14-2010, 10:49 AM
What's the difference between Sammy hugging him and the thirdbaseman and catcher hugging him? I'm sure Sammy wanted to be in the picture, but I'm pretty sure if it was Sammy that had gotten there first against the Cardinals, McGwire would have gone over and acknowledge the accomplishment while the crowd and others celebrated, and no one would have ever said a boo. Of course, it took over 11 years for something to ever come out about this.
Well, McGwire played first base, so he really wouldn't have had to go anywhere. Sammy would've had to come to him first.

dickallen15
01-14-2010, 10:58 AM
Because they were right there. It's a congratulations. They didn't have to come joyously running in to join the celebration. If you can't see that difference, then I don't know what to say.
Sammy was in RF. He did the right thing. If its OK for the others it should be OK for him and sprinting in takes less time. They game was being held up regardless. How come no one held this against Sammy until now? I'm as big of Sammy hater that there is, he did nothing wrong here. Again if Trachsel was so bothered by it, he should have addressed the issue at the beginning of September, 1998, and why did the 3b and C have to give McGwire hugs to go along with the high fives and handshakes? They brought a podium out after he hit it and there was a presentation with a couple of speakers. Its not as if Sosa held up the game.

soxinem1
01-14-2010, 03:46 PM
I never understood the issue of sportsmanship in this parallel:

In Little League, it was normal to shake hands and be a 'good sport' when dealing with your opponents.

In the pros, only token acknowledgement is acceptable when an opponent does something noteworthy.

Personally, I didn't care about the Scammy/MacRoid hug. But for players to jump all over the guy (who was actually right behind him in the race at the time) for breaking the most (then, anyway) exciting record in MLB at a time baseball needed it.

To make an issue of this now is a bit silly.

DrCrawdad
01-14-2010, 06:56 PM
Because they were right there. It's a congratulations. They didn't have to come joyously running in to join the celebration. If you can't see that difference, then I don't know what to say.

Exactly.