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View Full Version : Would You Make This Trade for A. Gonzalez?


TomBradley72
01-12-2010, 01:47 PM
Heard a rumor today:

White Sox give up: Viciedo, Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers for Adrian Gonzalez of the Padres. Padres pressing for Hudson to be added to the deal.

pythons007
01-12-2010, 01:56 PM
Heard a rumor today:

White Sox give up: Viciedo, Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers for Adrian Gonzalez of the Padres. Padres pressing for Hudson to be added to the deal.

Who is the source of this rumor?

TheOldRoman
01-12-2010, 01:59 PM
Heard a rumor today:

White Sox give up: Viciedo, Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers for Adrian Gonzalez of the Padres. Padres pressing for Hudson to be added to the deal.No. I would consider it if we included Hudson instead of Flowers. Everything I have heard about Flowers has been impressive. His defense had improved greatly over the last year, and we know the numbers he put of offensively in the minors. AJ will be gone in a few years, and then we will be back to the Karkovice/Alomar/Fabregas/Alomar/Johnson/Alomar/Ben Davis mess. I think the Sox should keep him at all cost unless they think he is fool's gold.

voodoochile
01-12-2010, 02:04 PM
No. I would consider it if we included Hudson instead of Flowers. Everything I have heard about Flowers has been impressive. His defense had improved greatly over the last year, and we know the numbers he put of offensively in the minors. AJ will be gone in a few years, and then we will be back to the Karkovice/Alomar/Fabregas/Alomar/Johnson/Alomar/Ben Davis mess. I think the Sox should keep him at all cost unless they think he is fool's gold.

Why does AJ have to be gone? I'd rather keep Hudson personally. I don't mind losing Viciedo and Danks though.

voodoochile
01-12-2010, 02:05 PM
And to answer the question, yes, they can have most of the Minor League system for Gonzalez, IMO.

asindc
01-12-2010, 02:07 PM
Yes, without Hudson.

pmck003
01-12-2010, 02:09 PM
I'd probably do it even with Hudson. If your gonna deal prospects, eventually one is going to turn into a good/very good player. And I think there's a very good chance of two of those guys being very good. But gonzalez is real cheap the next two years; gives the Sox a real good chance esp. w/ the ability to add another impact player if needed.

Carolina Kenny
01-12-2010, 02:09 PM
And to answer the question, yes, they can have most of the Minor League system for Gonzalez, IMO.

I second that emotion.

Sargeant79
01-12-2010, 02:10 PM
Heard a rumor today:

White Sox give up: Viciedo, Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers for Adrian Gonzalez of the Padres. Padres pressing for Hudson to be added to the deal.

I'd be ok with trading any 3 of those 4 if Adrian Gonzalez was coming back to us.

But is this a "heard a guy on a phone at the airport" kind of thing or did you hear this from somewhere reputable?

FarmerAndy
01-12-2010, 02:13 PM
Source?

And while I doubt there is any truth to this, my answer is hell yeah!!!

I don't care how good Flowers or Hudson are going to be. (Which isn't a certainty anyway.) We made the Peavy move and we have a 3 year window with it, if the Sox don't do everything they can to win a championship in that window, then bringing in Peavy was pointless. Screw the future, Adrian Gonzalez would bring the Sox closer to a championship now. The guy is a proven stud who still has a couple years at reasonable money. (And he's put up those numbers in the pitcher's park of all pitcher's parks.)

But again I say, I doubt there is anything to this rumor.

sox1970
01-12-2010, 02:15 PM
Source?

And while I doubt there is any truth to this, my answer is hell yeah!!!

I don't care how good Flowers or Hudson are going to be. (Which isn't a certainty anyway.) We made the Peavy move and we have a 3 year window with it, if the Sox don't do everything they can to win a championship in that window, then bringing in Peavy was pointless. Screw the future, Adrian Gonzalez would bring the Sox closer to a championship now. The guy is a proven stud who still has a couple years at reasonable money. (And he's put up those numbers in the pitcher's park of all pitcher's parks.)

But again I say, I doubt there is anything to this rumor.

This.

TomBradley72
01-12-2010, 02:17 PM
I'd be ok with trading any 3 of those 4 if Adrian Gonzalez was coming back to us.

But is this a "heard a guy on a phone at the airport" kind of thing or did you hear this from somewhere reputable?

I do believe it's from a reputable source. I've never posted a trade rumor since I joined WSI. It's hot stove time, I figured this would be a more interesting discussion than another BA or Pods thread. Even though most threads eventually turn into BA threads...I think this one should be immune to that dynamic.

JermaineDye05
01-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Yes, I'd do it.

However, I don't see Adrian going anywhere until the trading deadline.

Something tells me he's going to be staying on the West Coast. He'll just be moving over to the Angels.

Once again, what's the source?

DirtySox
01-12-2010, 02:19 PM
Yes, without Hudson.

Agreed. I'd rather keep Hudson than Flowers. Keeping at least one of the two would be quite nice, as both catcher and 5th starter will need to be filled next year.

BadBobbyJenks
01-12-2010, 02:22 PM
Wow I was just having a conversation with a buddy last night about who we would not trade for Adrian Gonzalez. We were not at an airport, but did you overhear us?

I said Hudson was the only guy I would have to really think about. As much as I like Flowers bon voyage.

Jim Shorts
01-12-2010, 02:32 PM
Heard a rumor today:

White Sox give up: Viciedo, Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers for Adrian Gonzalez of the Padres. Padres pressing for Hudson to be added to the deal.

Without even thinking twice, I'd make that deal. I'd make that deal with Hudson replacing Flowers too.

the bottom line is none of the people being mentioned as bait are going to be a keys to winning a WS in the 3 year 'Peavy' window.

Make the damn deal and try to win two trophies this time.

That and with the increased gate, they can go get another bullpen arm at the trade deadline.


Yes. Yes. A thousand times, YES

eastchicagosoxfan
01-12-2010, 02:33 PM
Would Gonzalez be a big defensive upgrade over Teahen? If yes, do the trade. BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if A.J. is still a starting catcher in five years.

PalehosePlanet
01-12-2010, 02:33 PM
No thanks. As good as Gonzalez is, I'd rather keep our prospects, and just sign Adam Dunn next year when he is a free agent.

TB72, where did you hear the rumor?

DirtySox
01-12-2010, 02:37 PM
the bottom line is none of the people being mentioned as bait are going to be a keys to winning a WS in the 3 year 'Peavy' window.

I'm not against the trade, but Hudson and Flowers are almost assuredly penciled into the 2011 roster if not traded. They are in the Peavy window.

BadBobbyJenks
01-12-2010, 02:38 PM
Would Gonzalez be a big defensive upgrade over Teahen? If yes, do the trade. BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if A.J. is still a starting catcher in five years.

Teahen? He would be playing first and Paulie would be our DH for his last year of his contract.

DaveFeelsRight
01-12-2010, 02:39 PM
Is this an actual rumor or a topic for discussion?

LoveYourSuit
01-12-2010, 02:40 PM
Would Gonzalez be a big defensive upgrade over Teahen? If yes, do the trade. BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if A.J. is still a starting catcher in five years.

Gonazalez does not play 3B.


And yes, I would dump every prospect in our farm right now to get ourselves one of the premier hitters in the game. No question.

Sargeant79
01-12-2010, 02:52 PM
Would Gonzalez be a big defensive upgrade over Teahen? If yes, do the trade. BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if A.J. is still a starting catcher in five years.

Gonzalez won a gold glove last year. And he would be replacing Paulie at 1B, not Teahan.

dickallen15
01-12-2010, 02:53 PM
I'd trade all 4 for Gonzalez a guy who for the next 2 seasons makes Mark Teahan cash, hits 40 homers gets on base at a .400 clip and is a GG first baseman.

WhiffleBall
01-12-2010, 02:53 PM
The only credible rumour that I have heard regarding AG and the White Sox is that a trade begins and ends with Gordon Beckham. Which we all know is not going to happen. Hoyer just started as GM and AG is by far their best player and an incredible fan favorite. He needs players that can make a contribution this year and are under team control for a number of years. He does not want arbitration eligible players nor does he want prospects unless they are off the charts good. This could change during the season but for now AG is staying in San Diego. They do need a catcher so we could very well be in the running before the trade deadline but that is a long time from now.

Sad
01-12-2010, 02:58 PM
Source?

what the hell's the difference?
it's a question of opinion, not breaking news...

psyclonis
01-12-2010, 03:06 PM
This rumor is 2 months old.

While Agon is cheap for the two next years and a type A free agent in '12...

Trading the farm for him and moving PK to DH seems like a lateral move when compared to simply signing Thome/Dye (other?) for DH and promoting Hudson & Flowers in '11.

kittle42
01-12-2010, 03:08 PM
what the hell's the difference?
it's a question of opinion, not breaking news...

Source that it's a question of opinion? :D:

Seriously, I think "Source?" is my least favorite frequent post on WSI.

spawn
01-12-2010, 03:10 PM
This rumor is 2 months old.

While Agon is cheap for the two next years and a type A free agent in '12...

Trading the farm for him and moving PK to DH seems like a lateral move when compared to simply signing Thome/Dye (other?) for DH and promoting Hudson & Flowers in '11.
A lateral move? Really? bringing in a gold glove winning first baseman with power and a good OBP is a lateral move? :scratch:

voodoochile
01-12-2010, 03:11 PM
This rumor is 2 months old.

While Agon is cheap for the two next years and a type A free agent in '12...

Trading the farm for him and moving PK to DH seems like a lateral move when compared to simply signing Thome/Dye (other?) for DH and promoting Hudson & Flowers in '11.

LOL...

I mean seriously...

:rolling:

hawkjt
01-12-2010, 03:12 PM
I do believe it's from a reputable source. I've never posted a trade rumor since I joined WSI. It's hot stove time, I figured this would be a more interesting discussion than another BA or Pods thread. Even though most threads eventually turn into BA threads...I think this one should be immune to that dynamic.

Too steep. I like our guys.

eastchicagosoxfan
01-12-2010, 03:12 PM
Sorry, for some reason I thought Gonzalez was a third sacker.

TheOldRoman
01-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Why does AJ have to be gone? I'd rather keep Hudson personally. I don't mind losing Viciedo and Danks though.Well, his contract only has him on the Sox through 2010, but I did say in "a few years". He might get a one year deal for 2011 if they think Flowers isn't ready, who knows. AJ will be 33 this season. I don't think they are counting on him holding up for another three years afterwards.

Sad
01-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Seriously, I think "Source?" is my least favorite frequent post on WSI.

yeah... that would make 2 of us... :club:

FarmerAndy
01-12-2010, 04:17 PM
what the hell's the difference?
it's a question of opinion, not breaking news...

I'll tell you what the hell's the difference....

The thread didn't start out by saying "Here's a hypothetical question for ya...." It started by saying "I heard a rumor...." Big difference.

FarmerAndy
01-12-2010, 04:19 PM
Source that it's a question of opinion? :D:

Seriously, I think "Source?" is my least favorite frequent post on WSI.

Yeah, it's just awful to ask anybody to add a little credibility to rumors they throw out there. How dare anybody stifle our freedom to just make crap up.

Rocky Soprano
01-12-2010, 04:23 PM
Yeah, it's just awful to ask anybody to add a little credibility to rumors they throw out there. How dare anybody stifle our freedom to just make crap up.

Exactly, he started his post saying he heard a rumor today, why can't we ask where he heard it?

DickAllen72
01-12-2010, 04:24 PM
Heard a rumor today:

White Sox give up: Viciedo, Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers for Adrian Gonzalez of the Padres. Padres pressing for Hudson to be added to the deal.
I'd make that deal in a heartbeat. If they want Hudson instead of Viciedo I'd do that as well.

The rumor I saw on another board yesterday was that The Padres wanted Hudson, Flowers and J Danks for Gonzalez and it was KW that was balking because he thinks very highly of Hudson as a potential front of the rotation starter. I find it hard to believe that if Gonzalez could be had for three prospects KW would hesitate for a second to pull the trigger.

Maybe KW is trying to find a trade that Konerko would approve because possibly Konerko would not be happy being a DH in a contract year. So if the Padres really would trade Gonzalez for Sox prospects, this is what I would like to see the Sox do:

1. Trade the mentioned prospects for Gonzalez.
2. Trade Konerko for prospect(s) to try to rebuild the farm system a little.
3. Use the money saved to sign Johnny Damon to split time at LF/DH with Pierre.
4. Start printing playoff tickets.

TomBradley72
01-12-2010, 04:25 PM
Yeah, it's just awful to ask anybody to add a little credibility to rumors they throw out there. How dare anybody stifle our freedom to just make crap up.

Look, I'm not going to share how I heard this, but I know it's credible that this is something being explored, if you enjoy debating/discussing various trade scenarios in early January, have at it.

If you need a notarized document stating the source of the rumor...I can't provide it.

oeo
01-12-2010, 04:28 PM
Not right now. I think we'd be selling extremely low on Viciedo and Danks. If you wait until midseason, I think at least Viciedo's stock would rise quite a bit.

DickAllen72
01-12-2010, 04:28 PM
Look, I'm not going to share how I heard this, but I know it's credible that this is something being explored, if you enjoy debating/discussing various trade scenarios in early January, have at it.

If you need a notarized document stating the source of the rumor...I can't provide it.
As far as I can remember you've always been a quality poster so I take you at your word that you heard this from a credible source.

russ99
01-12-2010, 04:30 PM
Nope. I'd keep Hudson and trade Flowers, as Flowers projects as a 1B/DH over catcher, and we have 2 good catching prospects 2-3 years away.

So if the rare chance that a deal is possible, I'd go for the certainty of Gonzalez at his salary, over Flowers' potential at pretty much the same position.

Besides, Hudson is gonna be a stud.

Nellie_Fox
01-12-2010, 04:31 PM
As far as I can remember you've always been a quality poster so I take you at your word that you heard this from a credible source.Oh, you 72s always stick together.

TomBradley72
01-12-2010, 04:32 PM
As far as I can remember you've always been a quality poster so I take you at your word that you heard this from a credible source.

Since we're both from '72 White Sox...I appreciate that!

DickAllen72
01-12-2010, 04:32 PM
oh, you 72s always stick together.
:d:

soxinem1
01-12-2010, 04:32 PM
I'm not sure SD would want Viciedo's salary, the way things are there right now.

TomBradley72
01-12-2010, 04:33 PM
Oh, you 72s always stick together.

If Melton had just stayed healthy!

oeo
01-12-2010, 04:33 PM
Nope. I'd keep Hudson and trade Flowers, as Flowers projects as a 1B/DH over catcher

Not anymore.

So if the rare chance that a deal is possible, I'd go for the certainty of Gonzalez at his salary, over Flowers' potential at the same potential position.

Gonzalez is only under contract through next year. Yeah, it's cheap, but we'd be losing TWO young power hitters who will be cheap for more than two years.

Pablo_Honey
01-12-2010, 04:37 PM
If I were Kenny, I would do this trade in a heartbeat. Come on, let's be realistic. A-Gon is simply the best first baseman in the game beside this monster named Pujols. Let's break down the package: a "third" baseman with potential weight issues and questionable bat potential; a speedy outfielder with glove with no power, no arm and lots of strikeouts; and a catcher with decent bat whose ability behind the plate has been questioned many times. If the Padres' GM made this trade, fans should be calling for his head. Any sort of package to acquire A-Gon would HAVE TO START with Hudson and Flowers but even then it won't be enough.

Gammons Peter
01-12-2010, 04:41 PM
Why would the Padres do this? I'm sure they can get much better prospects elsewhere (Boston)

BNLSox
01-12-2010, 04:42 PM
According to MLBTraderumors.com, the Padres were the only other team interested in Castro's services.

SPECULATION: Perhaps the deal now includes Castro and retains Flowers for DH/backup catcher.

sox1970
01-12-2010, 04:45 PM
According to MLBTraderumors.com, the Padres were the only other team interested in Castro's services.

SPECULATION: Perhaps the deal now includes Castro and retains Flowers for DH/backup catcher.

Good lord.

oeo
01-12-2010, 04:46 PM
If I were Kenny, I would do this trade in a heartbeat. Come on, let's be realistic. A-Gon is simply the best first baseman in the game beside this monster named Pujols. Let's break down the package: a "third" baseman with potential weight issues and questionable bat potential; a speedy outfielder with glove with no power, no arm and lots of strikeouts; and a catcher with decent bat whose ability behind the plate has been questioned many times. If the Padres' GM made this trade, fans should be calling for his head. Any sort of package to acquire A-Gon would HAVE TO START with Hudson and Flowers but even then it won't be enough.

You're underrating our prospects. Viciedo will only be 21 when the season starts, and could be in AAA. Danks does not have a weak arm, and he's a very good defender. You don't need power to be an everyday centerfielder. Flowers is not the defensive hack everyone made him out to be.

Look, right now, this deal looks so obviously in favor of the Padres. However, we have a couple of guys in there that have spent exactly one full year in the minor leagues. Their value is bound to go up as the season moves along, especially Viciedo who is very young. All we ever want to do is sell low on guys around here. When their stocks go up and they're actually worth something, no one wants them touched, however.

DickAllen72
01-12-2010, 04:47 PM
According to MLBTraderumors.com, the Padres were the only other team interested in Castro's services.

SPECULATION: Perhaps the deal now includes Castro and retains Flowers for DH/backup catcher.
You mean the deal for Gonzalez? If anything then it means Flowers is in the deal and Castro is the Sox backup catcher.

voodoochile
01-12-2010, 04:48 PM
Good lord.

LOL...

Oh man some of these suggestions are hilarious, I agree. Yeah, the Padres told the Sox to sign Castro for $1M so they could then trade Gonzalez for him instead of just signing Castro for $1.5M and keeping Gonzalez...

oeo
01-12-2010, 04:49 PM
Looks like some of you need a lesson in sarcasm. That post was so obviously bleeding with teal, it's not even funny.

voodoochile
01-12-2010, 04:50 PM
You're underrating our prospects. Viciedo will only be 21 when the season starts, and could be in AAA. Danks does not have a weak arm, and he's a very good defender. You don't need power to be an everyday centerfielder. Flowers is not the defensive hack everyone made him out to be.

Look, right now, this deal looks so obviously in favor of the Padres. However, we have a couple of guys in there that have spent exactly one full year in the minor leagues. Their value is bound to go up as the season moves along, especially Viciedo who is very young. All we ever want to do is sell low on guys around here. When their stocks go up and they're actually worth something, no one wants them touched, however.

If acquiring Gonzalez is selling low then please Kenny sell low...

DickAllen72
01-12-2010, 04:51 PM
If acquiring Gonzalez is selling low then please Kenny sell low...
Amen to that!

oeo
01-12-2010, 04:53 PM
If acquiring Gonzalez is selling low then please Kenny sell low...

Wow, I feel like banging my head against the wall...this makes no sense. We're selling low on our prospects in order to get Gonzalez. Acquiring Gonzalez is not 'selling low' because that would be 'buying' Gonzalez.

All I'm saying is, by midseason that package looks a lot better than it does now and we definitely would not have to add Hudson to it and may be able to replace Danks or Flowers with another player. Trading Viciedo makes little to no sense right now. To me, he's the wild card. The Sox seem committed to moving him across the infield, so the defensive questions go out the door, and his bat showed improvement at the end of the year. Buddy Bell thinks he could be ready some time in 2010.

kittle42
01-12-2010, 04:58 PM
Look, I'm not going to share how I heard this, but I know it's credible that this is something being explored, if you enjoy debating/discussing various trade scenarios in early January, have at it.

If you need a notarized document stating the source of the rumor...I can't provide it.

Good point - it's possible that if you revealed the source of this rumor, you might be violating some sort of TSA guidelines that have recently been imposed on overhearing GM's cell phone conversations. Better to stay off the grid.

voodoochile
01-12-2010, 04:59 PM
Wow, I feel like banging my head against the wall...this makes no sense. We're selling low on our prospects in order to get Gonzalez. Acquiring Gonzalez is not 'selling low' because that would be 'buying' Gonzalez.

All I'm saying is, by midseason that package looks a lot better than it does now and we definitely would not have to add Hudson to it and may be able to replace Danks or Flowers with another player. Trading Viciedo makes little to no sense right now.

And the point is that if they can add Gonzalez at any time for that package, they should do it. Are the Padres going to throw in something else mid-season that is going to improve the deal on their end? No. Now, then, tomorrow, next Xmas if that deal lands Gonzalez, you do it and don't worry about that other crap.

Zisk77
01-12-2010, 05:01 PM
I'm too lazy to quote everybody but here's my 2 cents:

I would trade a package of anyone in the minors excluding Hudson to get Gonzalez if I coiuld.

I might even include Hudson, but I would try like Hell to exlude Hudson from the trade.

IMO keeping prospects and getting Dunn is not a better solution than giving prospects and getting Gonzalez. Gonzalez is a superior player to Dunn both offensively and especially defensively.

I don't worry about losing Gonzalez as a free agent. When his contract runs out you just give him the money you have been paying Konerko and add a couple of millinion to it. Other slaries will be coming of the books...pierre's maybe A.J's etc.

Gonzalez is the perfect fit.

young...check
cheap...check
lefty power...check
Gold glove Defense....check
good all around hitter including ability to draw walks ...check

A healthy TCQ and Gonzalez in the middle of the order...WOW!

oeo
01-12-2010, 05:02 PM
And the point is that if they can add Gonzalez at any time for that package, they should do it.

They can't do it right now. The OP said the Padres want the Sox to add Hudson. You wait till midseason and you can probably drop any Hudson discussion, and possibly change Flowers to a different player. The Padres would then be able to plug Viciedo right in at first base. At 21 years old, by the time he reaches Gonzalez's age, he very well may be putting up those type of offensive numbers.

kittle42
01-12-2010, 05:14 PM
I'm too lazy to quote everybody but here's my 2 cents:

I would trade a package of anyone in the minors excluding Hudson to get Gonzalez if I coiuld.

I might even include Hudson, but I would try like Hell to exlude Hudson from the trade.

IMO keeping prospects and getting Dunn is not a better solution than giving prospects and getting Gonzalez. Gonzalez is a superior player to Dunn both offensively and especially defensively.

I don't worry about losing Gonzalez as a free agent. When his contract runs out you just give him the money you have been paying Konerko and add a couple of millinion to it. Other slaries will be coming of the books...pierre's maybe A.J's etc.

Gonzalez is the perfect fit.

young...check
cheap...check
lefty power...check
Gold glove Defense....check
good all around hitter including ability to draw walks ...check

A healthy TCQ and Gonzalez in the middle of the order...WOW!

Me likey, even including Hudson.

Pablo_Honey
01-12-2010, 05:20 PM
They can't do it right now. The OP said the Padres want the Sox to add Hudson. You wait till midseason and you can probably drop any Hudson discussion, and possibly change Flowers to a different player. The Padres would then be able to plug Viciedo right in at first base.
Fine, that's a valid point, but what happens if Viciedo and Danks completely tank AAA? Then we have a problem since Padres will use that against us to try to pry Hudson from us anyway. Also, the values of Flowers and Hudson are at their highest peak right now. There is no guarantee it will go up or even stay the same. If that's all Padres want, it sucks to lose Hudson but it's a necessary sacrifice for the great good of the team.

At 21 years old, by the time he reaches Gonzalez's age, he very well may be putting up those type of offensive numbers.
If that happens, why trade for A-Gon in the first place? If we decide to hold on to the prospects and that happens, great, we got ourselves a legit cleanup hitter. However, Viciedo is very raw and A-Gon is a much safer bet than Viciedo panning out to his level.

Craig Grebeck
01-12-2010, 05:24 PM
They can't do it right now. The OP said the Padres want the Sox to add Hudson. You wait till midseason and you can probably drop any Hudson discussion, and possibly change Flowers to a different player. The Padres would then be able to plug Viciedo right in at first base. At 21 years old, by the time he reaches Gonzalez's age, he very well may be putting up those type of offensive numbers.
Teal? Please let there be teal...

getonbckthr
01-12-2010, 05:30 PM
So the rumored proposed deal is: Viceido, Flowers, Danks and Hudson for Gonzalez. Lets break this down. With the make up of our current roster when Danks realistically make an impact? 2012 when Pierre's deal is up? At that point Mitchell will be ready therefor no loss with Danks. Viciedo, we can't assume he will develop into a player equliavent to Gonzalez. At worst thats a wash. So in my eyes we would be giving up Flowers and Hudson for Gonzalez. Ya do it and do it now before San Diego changes thier mind.

oeo
01-12-2010, 05:42 PM
Fine, that's a valid point, but what happens if Viciedo and Danks completely tank AAA? Then we have a problem since Padres will use that against us to try to pry Hudson from us anyway. Also, the values of Flowers and Hudson are at their highest peak right now. There is no guarantee it will go up or even stay the same. If that's all Padres want, it sucks to lose Hudson but it's a necessary sacrifice for the great good of the team.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Hudson being dealt means we have no insurance for Freddy, and that's going to end up hurting the staff. We will be extremely lucky if Freddy not only stays healthy all year, but is also effective.

If that happens, why trade for A-Gon in the first place? If we decide to hold on to the prospects and that happens, great, we got ourselves a legit cleanup hitter. However, Viciedo is very raw and A-Gon is a much safer bet than Viciedo panning out to his level.

Because Gonzalez will put up those numbers right now, which is what we need. Viciedo wouldn't be doing it for at least a couple more years.

I don't like the idea of trading both Flowers and Viciedo. If all you care about is 2010, fine and dandy, go for it. I mean, I'd love to get Gonzalez, he's absolutely what we need. But that goes against everything Kenny has been trying to build the last couple years. We lose two power hitting prospects with ETA's of 2011 for one which we could lose after 2011. IMO, they're just too close to the big leagues to make it worth it. If they were farther away or Gonzalez was signed for longer, I would be 100% for trading both of them and even including Hudson.

Try like hell to get only one of the two included, preferably Viciedo because Flowers can catch. Right now, that's not going to happen, but if Viciedo projects like the Sox think he will this year, then I think it's very possible.

NLaloosh
01-12-2010, 05:43 PM
Heard a rumor today:

White Sox give up: Viciedo, Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers for Adrian Gonzalez of the Padres. Padres pressing for Hudson to be added to the deal.

Yes. With Hudson, no.

I'd be willing to include another pitcher but not Hudson. And, I'd ask for a 72 hour window to sign AGon to an extension.

SoxNation05
01-12-2010, 05:45 PM
I love how the OP posts in the thread again without responding to where this rumor has come from?

I hope everyone knows this is not an actual rumor but just a deal that could make sense. The Sox need LH power and the Pad's are in a rebuilding period and Gonzalez is their best trading chip.

It is ridiculous to think we can pick up a player of Gonzalez's caliber (40 HRs,.400 OBP, GG defense and a cheap contract) without including our best prospect (Hudson). You still send them Danks, Viciedo, Flowers AND Hudson.

Not only are they prospects but they all have significant flaws (aside from Hudson):
Danks-no power and lots of K's
Viciedo-Lazy and no position
Flowers-Skeptical defense

JermaineDye05
01-12-2010, 05:55 PM
I love how the OP posts in the thread again without responding to where this rumor has come from?

I hope everyone knows this is not an actual rumor but just a deal that could make sense. The Sox need LH power and the Pad's are in a rebuilding period and Gonzalez is their best trading chip.

It is ridiculous to think we can pick up a player of Gonzalez's caliber (40 HRs,.400 OBP, GG defense and a cheap contract) without including our best prospect (Hudson). You still send them Danks, Viciedo, Flowers AND Hudson.

Not only are they prospects but they all have significant flaws (aside from Hudson):
Danks-no power and lots of K's
Viciedo-Lazy and no position
Flowers-Skeptical defense

I don't see why San Diego would want him, not because of possible "laz[iness]" but because he seems like he'll be a DH which doesn't fit too well in the NL methinks. I thought I read somewhere that Dayan would be getting time at 1st base this year so maybe that's the plan.

I've heard, not seen, that Tyler's defense has much improved. I think I read somewhere that he was actually rated the best, or one of the best, defensive catchers in the minors this past year.

Craig Grebeck
01-12-2010, 06:03 PM
I don't see why San Diego would want him, not because of possible "laz[iness]" but because he seems like he'll be a DH which doesn't fit too well in the NL methinks. I thought I read somewhere that Dayan would be getting time at 1st base this year so maybe that's the plan.

I've heard, not seen, that Tyler's defense has much improved. I think I read somewhere that he was actually rated the best, or one of the best, defensive catchers in the minors this past year.
Best in the Southern League.

I will state right now that Dayan Viciedo will never hit like Adrian Gonzalez. I will take OEO to three White Sox games if he ever does.

SoxNation05
01-12-2010, 06:09 PM
They can't do it right now. The OP said the Padres want the Sox to add Hudson. You wait till midseason and you can probably drop any Hudson discussion, and possibly change Flowers to a different player. The Padres would then be able to plug Viciedo right in at first base. At 21 years old, by the time he reaches Gonzalez's age, he very well may be putting up those type of offensive numbers.

If Viciedo puts up Kendry Morales numbers I'll buy you his jersey, but Gonzalez numbers? Crazy talk.

Pablo_Honey
01-12-2010, 06:09 PM
I don't see why San Diego would want him, not because of possible "laz[iness]" but because he seems like he'll be a DH which doesn't fit too well in the NL methinks. I thought I read somewhere that Dayan would be getting time at 1st base this year so maybe that's the plan.
Yeah, Viciedo is a bad fit for the Padres since they already have Kyle Blanks who can play 1B/LF/RF, and a bad-body corner outifelder in Jaff Decker as well as some decent third basemen prospects. Padres would be stupid to include Viciedo as a main piece.
I've heard, not seen, that Tyler's defense has much improved. I think I read somewhere that he was actually rated the best, or one of the best, defensive catchers in the minors this past year.
What you are thinking of is the award for the best defensive catcher in the league he was playing. The selection was made by managers and Gold Glove selections clearly show managers know what they are doing. I'm sure Tyler improved many parts of his defensive game but I won't be completely sold until the majority of scouts and talent evaluators come out and say he is a plus defensive catcher. We already have enough people whining about how AJ can't throw anybody out and how he is a bad defensive catcher. It may just get worse with Flowers as our starting catcher.

oeo
01-12-2010, 06:13 PM
Best in the Southern League.

I will state right now that Dayan Viciedo will never hit like Adrian Gonzalez. I will take OEO to three White Sox games if he ever does.

All expenses paid? :redneck

I don't think he will ever have that type of OBP, but he will hit.

oeo
01-12-2010, 06:18 PM
If Viciedo puts up Kendry Morales numbers I'll buy you his jersey, but Gonzalez numbers? Crazy talk.

:lol: You act like Gonzalez has been a Hall of Fame type player for 5 years. He had his first great year last year, at the age of 27. Kendry Morales did the same at age 26.

Viciedo is still very young in respect to Gonzalez. I said he very well may be able to put those numbers up seven years from now. Why is that crazy? Because he had subpar year at the age of 20, months after defecting from Cuba? Gonzalez was merely pretty good until he exploded in 2009. There's an example of a young player growing. Viciedo can't grow, too? Especially since he will probably be in the big leagues 4 or 5 years by the time he reaches 27?

Viciedo is going to hit, and he's going to hit for power. Maybe he won't walk over 100 times a year, but people probably said the same about Gonzalez.

JermaineDye05
01-12-2010, 06:22 PM
Yeah, Viciedo is a bad fit for the Padres since they already have Kyle Blanks who can play 1B/LF/RF, and a bad-body corner outifelder in Jaff Decker as well as some decent third basemen prospects. Padres would be stupid to include Viciedo as a main piece.

What you are thinking of is the award for the best defensive catcher in the league he was playing. The selection was made by managers and Gold Glove selections clearly show managers know what they are doing. I'm sure Tyler improved many parts of his defensive game but I won't be completely sold until the majority of scouts and talent evaluators come out and say he is a plus defensive catcher. We already have enough people whining about how AJ can't throw anybody out and how he is a bad defensive catcher. It may just get worse with Flowers as our starting catcher.

This can't be further from the truth. AJ is a fantastic defender. His problem has purely been throwing out base runners, like you stated previously. I've never heard anyone complain about AJ's defensive abilities as a catcher.

Craig Grebeck
01-12-2010, 06:23 PM
All expenses paid? :redneck

I don't think he will ever have that type of OBP, but he will hit.
If he ever does I'm sure I'll be out of graduate school -- so yes.

OEO, I appreciate the enthusiasm. I don't want to write off Dayan, and I'm not, there's just more bad than good at this point. But I don't weigh the bag much, I just want to see more improvement and progression. I'm confident he'll be a starter by 2012.

Daver
01-12-2010, 06:39 PM
This can't be further from the truth. AJ is a fantastic defender. His problem has purely been throwing out base runners, like you stated previously. I've never heard anyone complain about AJ's defensive abilities as a catcher.

You,and no one else, holds this opinion.

No one complains because he makes up for being a below average catcher by being an above average baseball player.

TomBradley72
01-12-2010, 06:57 PM
I love how the OP posts in the thread again without responding to where this rumor has come from?



I don't think revealing my source is appropriate...he would be pretty pissed off if I did on a message board. In another post, someone referenced a very similar rumor on a different website. I thought it would be an interesting discussion on an early January day.

I never said a deal is iminent, etc...I simply stated that this is what I'm hearing is being discussed and asked what everyone thought. If I start a thread in "What's the Score" am I obligated to declare my source? I'll have to review the WSI guidelines.

Am I the only one restless for pitchers & catchers to report and tired of endless threads about BA, Pods and Jimbo's?

Tragg
01-12-2010, 07:02 PM
For only 2 years of Gonzales?
No.
Essentially we'd be giving them our 4 best prospects, all of whom are AA plus - i.e. reasonably close.
Too much.
This is a ton more than we gave for Peavy.

JermaineDye05
01-12-2010, 07:15 PM
You,and no one else, holds this opinion.

No one complains because he makes up for being a below average catcher by being an above average baseball player.

With exception to 1 season, AJ has put up a FP of .995+ since joining the White Sox. As far as wild pitches and passed balls are concerned, we have to remember who he's been catching: Contreras, Garcia, Vazquez, Floyd, MacDougal, etc. AJ's been pretty good when it comes to handling balls behind and in front of the plate is just what my argument is I guess.

Craig Grebeck
01-12-2010, 07:17 PM
With exception to 1 season, AJ has put up a FP of .995+ since joining the White Sox. As far as wild pitches and passed balls are concerned, we have to remember who he's been catching: Contreras, Garcia, Vazquez, Floyd, MacDougal, etc. AJ's been pretty good when it comes to handling balls behind and in front of the plate is just what my argument is I guess.
Fielding percentage? Really?

JermaineDye05
01-12-2010, 07:20 PM
Fielding percentage? Really?

I know :redface::redface::redface:

I'm sorry I'm not well versed in statistics so that's all I have to bring to the table aside from what I see with my very eyes. And what I see is simply a catcher who has trouble throwing runners out but makes up for it by handling a pitching staff fairly well and not letting too many balls get passed him.

Rohan
01-12-2010, 07:28 PM
I do believe it's from a reputable source. I've never posted a trade rumor since I joined WSI. It's hot stove time, I figured this would be a more interesting discussion than another BA or Pods thread. Even though most threads eventually turn into BA threads...I think this one should be immune to that dynamic.

That hasn't happened in a long time...

I would do this trade... But I'd still like to hold on to Hudson. I don't see Garcia staying healthy the whole season, and I'd like to have Hudson as a back up.

Zisk77
01-12-2010, 07:51 PM
You,and no one else, holds this opinion.

No one complains because he makes up for being a below average catcher by being an above average baseball player.

Well I wouldn't go fantastic, but A. J. is an above average defnder. He has an average arm. Not bad...not good. If the pitchers hold the runners on he will throw a good percentage out. In fact, A. J. started throwing guys out after Jose was traded. Danks and Floyd have gotten better at holding runners on. they still need to improve though.

SoxNation05
01-12-2010, 10:11 PM
:lol: You act like Gonzalez has been a Hall of Fame type player for 5 years. He had his first great year last year, at the age of 27. Kendry Morales did the same at age 26.

Viciedo is still very young in respect to Gonzalez. I said he very well may be able to put those numbers up seven years from now. Why is that crazy? Because he had subpar year at the age of 20, months after defecting from Cuba? Gonzalez was merely pretty good until he exploded in 2009. There's an example of a young player growing. Viciedo can't grow, too? Especially since he will probably be in the big leagues 4 or 5 years by the time he reaches 27?

Viciedo is going to hit, and he's going to hit for power. Maybe he won't walk over 100 times a year, but people probably said the same about Gonzalez.
The reason I said that is because Viciedo will NEVER have .400 OBP. If you're going to contradict your own posts, I can't control that.

A. Cavatica
01-12-2010, 10:12 PM
For only 2 years of Gonzales?
No.
Essentially we'd be giving them our 4 best prospects, all of whom are AA plus - i.e. reasonably close.
Too much.
This is a ton more than we gave for Peavy.

Gonzalez has a cheap contract; Peavy has an expensive one. These days, that matters at least as much as talent in a trade.

The talent level in our system drops off precipitously after these guys. Dealing all of them for Gonzalez would make this team a legit World Series contender in 2010 and 2011, but it would be awfully risky.

SoxNation05
01-12-2010, 10:17 PM
I don't think revealing my source is appropriate...he would be pretty pissed off if I did on a message board. In another post, someone referenced a very similar rumor on a different website. I thought it would be an interesting discussion on an early January day.

I never said a deal is iminent, etc...I simply stated that this is what I'm hearing is being discussed and asked what everyone thought. If I start a thread in "What's the Score" am I obligated to declare my source? I'll have to review the WSI guidelines.

Am I the only one restless for pitchers & catchers to report and tired of endless threads about BA, Pods and Jimbo's?
Yeah, I guess you're right. Should I come out with my Hanley Ramirez to the Sox trade thread? I mean, I have a reliable source.

Pablo_Honey
01-12-2010, 10:24 PM
:lol: You act like Gonzalez has been a Hall of Fame type player for 5 years. He had his first great year last year, at the age of 27. Kendry Morales did the same at age 26.
Except Gonzalez has been putting up solid numbers for 4 seasons in one of the worst lineups in the league in one of the most pitcher-friendly parks whilst this was the first full time season for Morales playing in a better environment than A-Gon. For the sake of the argument, let's just say comparing the two is simply not plausible at the moment.

Viciedo is still very young in respect to Gonzalez. I said he very well may be able to put those numbers up seven years from now. Why is that crazy? Because he had subpar year at the age of 20, months after defecting from Cuba?
It's because Viciedo is a prospect and nobody knows for certain if he will reach his ceiling or not. When you can trade a guy with an uncertain future for a guy with a certain future, you make that trade 99 times out of 100. There have been a lot of can't-miss prospects that never pan out. With A-Gon, we can make a push for championship runs and it's worth it even if we only have him for 1 or 2 years.

Gonzalez was merely pretty good until he exploded in 2009.
Of course, because hitting 36 homeruns is not even close to being great, right? Yeah, who cares if a guy has been improving his walk totals and homerun totals whilst maintaining a batting average over .270 since his debut? Take A-Gon out of Petco and put him in Coors, then he would have won MVP at some point in his career already. His numbers look "merely pretty good" because of the harsh environment he was playing in. He has been great throughout his career, it's just that his ridiculous walk totals last year make that season stand out way too much.

gr8mexico
01-12-2010, 10:32 PM
For only 2 years of Gonzales?
No.
Essentially we'd be giving them our 4 best prospects, all of whom are AA plus - i.e. reasonably close.
Too much.
This is a ton more than we gave for Peavy.
That would be a steal. Because if you cant sign Gonzalez then you offer him arbitration and you would get 2 picks for him easily and Gonzalez contract is a steal right now.

Tragg
01-12-2010, 11:54 PM
That would be a steal. Because if you cant sign Gonzalez then you offer him arbitration and you would get 2 picks for him easily and Gonzalez contract is a steal right now.
I don't see it....we're giving a lot of talent for 2 years. As for draft choices, the Redsox got 2 draft choices for holding Billy Wagner for a month (in return for very little)....that's a good move for draft choices: 2 medicore prospects for a 1RD and a supp D

voodoochile
01-13-2010, 12:15 AM
I don't see it....we're giving a lot of talent for 2 years. As for draft choices, the Redsox got 2 draft choices for holding Billy Wagner for a month (in return for very little)....that's a good move for draft choices: 2 medicore prospects for a 1RD and a supp D

You are presupposing the Sox cannot sign him to an extension and that they would ONLY get his services for two years.

Sad
01-13-2010, 10:00 AM
I don't think revealing my source is appropriate...he would be pretty pissed off if I did on a message board. In another post, someone referenced a very similar rumor on a different website. I thought it would be an interesting discussion on an early January day.

I never said a deal is iminent, etc...I simply stated that this is what I'm hearing is being discussed and asked what everyone thought. If I start a thread in "What's the Score" am I obligated to declare my source? I'll have to review the WSI guidelines.

it's not worth the worry...

Jim Shorts
01-13-2010, 12:26 PM
You,and no one else, holds this opinion.

No one complains because he makes up for being a below average catcher by being an above average baseball player.

Agree to disagree.

Johnny Bench, he's not. A.J. is however a good defensive catcher.

Not sure which AJ you've been watching for the last four years

oeo
01-13-2010, 03:31 PM
You are presupposing the Sox cannot sign him to an extension and that they would ONLY get his services for two years.

You better make damn sure you sign him to an extension.

Red Barchetta
01-13-2010, 07:58 PM
So in all this, what happens with Paulie? Do we have a 3-headed DH monster (Konerko/Jones/Kotsay) as a result?

oeo
01-13-2010, 08:12 PM
So in all this, what happens with Paulie? Do we have a 3-headed DH monster (Konerko/Jones/Kotsay) as a result?

Konerko becomes the DH and backup 1B. We can say bye to Jones, he's now completely useless.

DirtySox
01-13-2010, 08:13 PM
You better make damn sure you sign him to an extension.

One would expect him to explore free agency and be scooped up Boston or New York for a kajillion dollars.

FarmerAndy
01-14-2010, 08:29 AM
It's because Viciedo is a prospect and nobody knows for certain if he will reach his ceiling or not. When you can trade a guy with an uncertain future for a guy with a certain future, you make that trade 99 times out of 100. There have been a lot of can't-miss prospects that never pan out. With A-Gon, we can make a push for championship runs and it's worth it even if we only have him for 1 or 2 years.



Amen.

Flowers, Hudson, Viciedo...... it is not written in stone that these guys will pan out. In fact, can't-miss prospects don't pan out more often than they do pan-out. Baseball is weird like that.

You don't always want to sell the farm for a stud. But right now the Sox are facing a window of 2 or 3 years where they need to strike when the iron is hot. I said it before, if the Sox don't get bold and do anything possible to win in 2010 / 2011 (even at the expense of the future), then the Peavy move was pointless.

tstrike2000
01-14-2010, 11:48 AM
:tomatoaward

TheVulture
01-14-2010, 04:03 PM
You'd have to be mad not to make that trade.

Red Barchetta
01-14-2010, 07:44 PM
Konerko becomes the DH and backup 1B. We can say bye to Jones, he's now completely useless.

It looks good on paper, however there are egos involved. I don't see Konerko limiting himself to DH (yet) at this point in his career. He picked it pretty good at 1B last season. They won't move Jones because they just signed him and I doubt any other team would pay for the price the SOX negotiated. Kotsay is a great team guy and leader (Per Ozzie), however I see him of the three getting squeezed.

If this deal goes down, I see Paulie waiving his trade clause to move to the west coast.

russ99
01-14-2010, 08:09 PM
It looks good on paper, however there are egos involved. I don't see Konerko limiting himself to DH (yet) at this point in his career. He picked it pretty good at 1B last season. They won't move Jones because they just signed him and I doubt any other team would pay for the price the SOX negotiated. Kotsay is a great team guy and leader (Per Ozzie), however I see him of the three getting squeezed.


Paul's gotta see the writing on the wall, with Dye and Thome gone, he's the next plodding slugger on the way out of town.

I'd even go as far as saying if he didn't have the NTC he may already have been traded.

If the Sox acquire a player like Gonzalez, he'd certainly be moved to at least the part-time DH.

I hold out some hope that Paul has one more good season for us, before likely leaving as a FA next offseason.

Red Barchetta
01-14-2010, 09:02 PM
Paul's gotta see the writing on the wall, with Dye and Thome gone, he's the next plodding slugger on the way out of town.

I'd even go as far as saying if he didn't have the NTC he may already have been traded.

If the Sox acquire a player like Gonzalez, he'd certainly be moved to at least the part-time DH.

I hold out some hope that Paul has one more good season for us, before likely leaving as a FA next offseason.

That's why I think if this deal goes through, Paulie will be part of it. It's San Diego, he likes California, he's got a ring and only one year left on his contract. He could then move back to the AL in 2011 and move into DH if necessary. The SOX would undoubtedly have to pony of some $$$ as part of the deal as I think San Diego would need at least a stop gap at 1B if they lose Gonzales.

I know this is all wishful thinking, however I've heard from more than one source that even Peavy is trying to help bring Gonzales here.

Frater Perdurabo
01-14-2010, 10:01 PM
I'd even go as far as saying if he didn't have the NTC he may already have been traded.

Technically PK doesn't have a NTC in his contract, but rather has "10-5 rights" that are included in the CBA. Players who have played 10+ years, including 5+ with their current team, cannot be traded without their approval.

Harry Chappas
01-19-2010, 11:04 AM
FWIW - I heard the same rumor involving the same players. My source, who wishes to remain nameless (he's an infrequent poster here), is friends with someone that works under Kenny.

From what I was told, the deal would require Viciedo, Flowers, Danks, AND Hudson.

Personally, I'd make the deal in a New York minute.

We shall see, but I have no doubt that this is legitimate. Whether or not KW would pull the trigger - I guess we'll see.

JermaineDye05
01-19-2010, 12:03 PM
As much as I enjoy these rumors...

if where you posters say the sources are coming from is in fact true, I'd prefer they kept silent and the White Sox plugged the leak. I'd hate for a deal like this to fall through because information got leaked out.

Granted, I don't know if revealing these sorts of rumors even have an effect on whether the deal goes down or not. Better safe than sorry though.

TheOldRoman
01-19-2010, 12:10 PM
As much as I enjoy these rumors...

if where you posters say the sources are coming from is in fact true, I'd prefer they kept silent and the White Sox plugged the leak. I'd hate for a deal like this to fall through because information got leaked out.

Granted, I don't know if revealing these sorts of rumors even have an effect on whether the deal goes down or not. Better safe than sorry though.Well, this particular rumor hasn't been picked up by the press yet. If it was, you would see Joe Cowley whining and stomping his feet about being scooped, claiming that WSI has no legitamacy and calling all of us virgins living in our parents' basements.

cws05champ
01-19-2010, 12:47 PM
FWIW - I heard the same rumor involving the same players. My source, who wishes to remain nameless (he's an infrequent poster here), is friends with someone that works under Kenny.

From what I was told, the deal would require Viciedo, Flowers, Danks, AND Hudson.

Personally, I'd make the deal in a New York minute.

We shall see, but I have no doubt that this is legitimate. Whether or not KW would pull the trigger - I guess we'll see.

Man, I love AG but that is a ton to give up. I wouldn't mind giving up the hitters, but giving up Hudson would concern me. This would leave our already thin system with absolutely nothing...especially at the upper levels. We would be set for a two year run and I guess you can't ask for more than that. Also our payroll longterm would be an issue...with John Danks, TCQ and others going into their lucrative arb and FA years.

FarmerAndy
01-19-2010, 04:42 PM
Man, I love AG but that is a ton to give up. I wouldn't mind giving up the hitters, but giving up Hudson would concern me. This would leave our already thin system with absolutely nothing...especially at the upper levels. We would be set for a two year run and I guess you can't ask for more than that. Also our payroll longterm would be an issue...with John Danks, TCQ and others going into their lucrative arb and FA years.

None of those guys have proven that they will be solid at the Major League level. What they have is "potential." And the value in that potential, if you are in "win now" mode, is that it can bring back some serious Major League talent when you deal them to a team in rebuilding mode.

It's easy to over-value prospects in the organization that you root for. But for every Gordon Beckham there are 20 Joe Borchards. And when you have the window that we have have right now, then no prospect is worth holding on to if you can land a talent like Adrian Gonzales.

And I'll say it again......... If the team has the oppportunity to make a move like this and is unwilling to do it, then the Peavy move was pointless.

getonbckthr
01-19-2010, 04:55 PM
People need to realize prospects, unless they are of the Lincecum, Beckham, Pujols etc etc mold, are there for trades. Part of the advantage of drafting well is having ammo to get players from other teams.

Lip Man 1
01-19-2010, 08:14 PM
For what it's worth I passed it along to a media friend and asked if they had heard anything or what they thought of it. This is their reply:

"I'd like to know where the money is coming from in this deal?

If they deal Flowers, then they'd better hope they'd get AJ at a discount in ensuing years.

Was told last month they don't want to move any more pitching prospects until after the draft (June) because of the SD and LA trades that moved six pitchers. Moving Viciedo makes sense because of the way his contract is structured, but the Padres already have a few lumbering types in a park that requires speed.

I can't see this happening, but Kenny has laid low for too long."

------------------------------
I also agree with Farmer Andy and Geton. The minor leagues are there to make the major league team better...if that means trading prospects to do so, than you do it.

Lip