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View Full Version : Dawson - Expos or Cubs?


Fenway
01-08-2010, 12:32 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/08/sports/baseball/08expos.html

He must enter as an Expo - Nos Amours

tstrike2000
01-08-2010, 12:38 PM
If he does go in as an Expo, that would be a first, wouldn't it?

Marqhead
01-08-2010, 12:39 PM
If he does go in as an Expo, that would be a first, wouldn't it?

Gary Carter is an Expo I believe.

spawn
01-08-2010, 12:39 PM
If he does go in as an Expo, that would be a first, wouldn't it?
Nope. Gary Carter.

Edit: Marqhead beat me to it.

Fenway
01-08-2010, 12:40 PM
Gary Carter went in as an Expo

beasly213
01-08-2010, 12:47 PM
Hey played 11 years as an Expo. He should be going in as such.

TDog
01-08-2010, 12:48 PM
Gary Carter is an Expo I believe.

I heard that Gary Carter wanted his plaque to display him wearing a Mets cap. (The plaque lists all the the teams he played with, so technically he went in as both as a member of the Expos and a member of the Mets.) Baseball put him in an Expos cap, I believe, because they wanted Montreal represented in the Hall of Fame. Dawson's cap on his plaque may be that peculiar M-thing for the same reason.

tstrike2000
01-08-2010, 12:49 PM
Forgot about Carter going into the HOF! Anyway, I'd like to see him go in as an Expo, if for no other reason than I liked the old Expo logo.

dickallen15
01-08-2010, 12:56 PM
He was the MVP with the Cubs, and the Expos are no more. I don't think either choice is a bad one.

Juice16
01-08-2010, 01:16 PM
Besides 1987, his hall of fame numbers were with the Expos. His Cubs career was good, but not hall of fame.

soxinem1
01-08-2010, 01:19 PM
Gary Carter went in as an Expo

And if Tim Raines ever gets in, it should be as an Expo too.

I do not know why this is even an issue. Sure, he had 1987 with CHC, but his best, most consistent, and best all-around numbers came with MTL.

dickallen15
01-08-2010, 01:23 PM
And if Tim Raines ever gets in, it should be as an Expo too.

I do not know why this is even an issue. Sure, he had 1987 with CHC, but his best, most consistent, and best all-around numbers came with MTL.

In his 6 years with the Cubs, he had a higher BA, OBP and Slugg. Pct. than he did his 11 years with Montreal. I don't know why its that big of deal what hat he "wears" into the HOF but a Cubs hat isn't necessarily a bad choice.

I don't think people would have thought anything of it had Carlton Fisk "worn" a White Sox cap into the HOF even though his numbers were lower with the correct Sox.

I think Dawson is more "famous" for being a Cub, if that really means anything. It seems that kind of thinking was used to determine Fisk's hat.

I agree with you on Raines as although he was a pretty good player with the Sox, his hey day was in Montreal. I don't know if you can really say that about Dawson.

soxinem1
01-08-2010, 01:34 PM
In his 6 years with the Cubs, he had a higher BA, OBP and Slugg. Pct. than he did his 11 years with Montreal. I don't know why its that big of deal what hat he "wears" into the HOF but a Cubs hat isn't necessarily a bad choice.

All true, but I was referring to his all-around game. He stole more bases and played better defense (played a lot of CF with MTL).

Besides, his CHC numbers are pretty trumped up with that one season from 1987.

With him playing his first eleven seasons north of the border, (unlike Fisk where the number of years with each set of Sox was pretty even) versus only six with the cubs, the only way I consider putting him in cubbie blew is if he helped them end their World Series drought.

And as we all know, that did not happen!!:smile:

Thome25
01-08-2010, 02:46 PM
In his 6 years with the Cubs, he had a higher BA, OBP and Slugg. Pct. than he did his 11 years with Montreal. I don't know why its that big of deal what hat he "wears" into the HOF but a Cubs hat isn't necessarily a bad choice.

I don't think people would have thought anything of it had Carlton Fisk "worn" a White Sox cap into the HOF even though his numbers were lower with the correct Sox.

I think Dawson is more "famous" for being a Cub, if that really means anything. It seems that kind of thinking was used to determine Fisk's hat.

I agree with you on Raines as although he was a pretty good player with the Sox, his hey day was in Montreal. I don't know if you can really say that about Dawson.

When Fisk went in, it was when players were still able to choose their own cap on their plaque. Fisk chose the Red Sox himself......he said it was because he was a New England boy and to him it was the right thing to do.

We all know that Fisk chose the Red Sox because he wanted to stick it to Reinsdorf and the White Sox for the way he was treated at the end of his career.

The HOF startted chosing the players' caps for them when teams like Tampa Bay tried to buy HOFers like Wade Boggs' caps on their plaques by putting it in their contracts toward the end of their careers.

mrfourni
01-08-2010, 02:52 PM
On cases like Dawson and Fisk, where there is no clear cut choice, what's the harm in letting them choose between the two? Just don't give Dawson the option of choosing Florida or Boston.

dickallen15
01-08-2010, 03:04 PM
On cases like Dawson and Fisk, where there is no clear cut choice, what's the harm in letting them choose between the two? Just don't give Dawson the option of choosing Florida or Boston.

Or why even have an emblem on the hat. Just leave it blank.

FarmerAndy
01-08-2010, 04:45 PM
He won an MVP, a Silver Slugger, 2 Gold Gloves, and was an All-Star 5 times in his 6 years with the Cubs.

I'd rather see him go in as an Expo, just because it would be nice to see them represented by more than one player. And as someone stated earlier, that logo was awesome. But if he went in as a Cub, it wouldn't be unwarranted. He solidified his HOF credentials when he was in Chicago.

SOXSINCE'70
01-08-2010, 06:01 PM
He became famous with the Expos, he goes in as an Expo.:cool:

TheVulture
01-09-2010, 01:35 AM
I voted Expos, but I'll say this - Dawson was probably about the only guy who still managed to look like a bad-ass in a Cubs uni.

TheVulture
01-09-2010, 01:45 AM
When you think Expos, you think of Dawson, Raines, Carter...he probably wouldn't be the first player you thought of when thinking of the Cubs, though. That's why I would go with Montreal.

Brian26
01-09-2010, 09:05 AM
I do not know why this is even an issue. Sure, he had 1987 with CHC, but his best, most consistent, and best all-around numbers came with MTL.

Me neither. Is this actually being debated in the media? He has to go in as an Expo.

Red Barchetta
01-09-2010, 12:21 PM
Gary Carter went in as an Expo

I'm gonna start another poll - Who had the best late 70s/early 80s "man perm" in baseball?

-Gary Carter
-Mike Schmidt
-Greg Luzinkski

:D:

Red Barchetta
01-09-2010, 12:28 PM
I voted Expos, but I'll say this - Dawson was probably about the only guy who still managed to look like a bad-ass in a Cubs uni.

I remember one Chicago Cubs beat reporter describing Dawson's physique as carved out of marble. There was no way Eric Show (Padres) wanted any of the Hawk after hitting Dawson in the face! :o:

LongLiveFisk
01-09-2010, 12:32 PM
It should be the Expos, but we'll see. I'm sure if he had the choice, he would pick the Cubs since they are the media darlings as opposed to the Expos, who were the black sheep of the league. That's just what I think though.

dickallen15
01-09-2010, 09:17 PM
On cases like Dawson and Fisk, where there is no clear cut choice, what's the harm in letting them choose between the two? Just don't give Dawson the option of choosing Florida or Boston.
Dawson shouldn't get to choose. He signed a contract with the Marlins with a HOF hat clause. The HOF changed their procedures since then. If it was Dawson's choice he would have been contractually obligated to wear a Marlins hat.

soxfanreggie
01-10-2010, 02:53 PM
I say end the damn "controversy" once and for all by having new inductees appear bare-headed on their plaques. Why not? In the free agency era no one sticks to one team anymore, obviously. I suppose you could make exceptions if you get an inductee who spent his entire career with one team, but for the rest, the plaque lists all the teams that person played for (even if it was only for one game) so what's the big deal?

You might be onto something interesting - considering no caps at all. NFL players' busts don't have helmets on them, so there is no argument there.

russ99
01-10-2010, 04:22 PM
Dawson shouldn't get to choose. He signed a contract with the Marlins with a HOF hat clause. The HOF changed their procedures since then. If it was Dawson's choice he would have been contractually obligated to wear a Marlins hat.

Which is why the whole hat decision has been moved to the Hall. At some point the shenanigans about compensation for which hat was shown in the Hall had to stop.

I'd like to see the Expos, for two reasons. 1) that Expos team Andre was on was awesome and 2) It would tweak Bud that a team he helped move would be on a Hall-of-fame cap.

As for the Cubs thing, Andre Dawson was one of the few players to wear the Cubs uniform that I have a lot of respect for, so if he wore that hat I'd have zero problem with it.

WSox597
01-11-2010, 07:56 AM
I voted Expos, but if he wore a Cubs hat at least he belongs in the HOF, unlike some of their other selections.

doublem23
01-11-2010, 07:58 AM
I voted Expos, but if he wore a Cubs hat at least he belongs in the HOF, unlike some of their other selections.

He really doesn't. He sets a new low Hall of Fame OF OBP... by 20 points.

TommyJohn
01-11-2010, 09:26 AM
Now it has been reported that the Cubs have told Dawson that if he enters the hall as a Cub, they will retire his number. This crap just really needs to stop. I know it isn't Dawson's decision, but if he lobbies the Hall to be a Cub for this reason, the Hall might decide to have him go in as an Expo.

Shoeless
01-11-2010, 10:11 AM
Now it has been reported that the Cubs have told Dawson that if he enters the hall as a Cub, they will retire his number. This crap just really needs to stop. I know it isn't Dawson's decision, but if he lobbies the Hall to be a Cub for this reason, the Hall might decide to have him go in as an Expo.

If the Cubs are going to retire his number, they should retire his damn number. Why do we need to have Washington politics in baseball?

ComiskeyBrewer
01-11-2010, 12:32 PM
2) It would tweak Bud that a team he helped move would be on a Hall-of-fame cap.



Gary Carter is already enshrined as an expo, and i seriously doubt it would bug Bud anyways.

Madscout
01-11-2010, 01:32 PM
He was my first favorite player, as my dad is a Cub fan, therefore, until Mr. Frank Thomas came around, I was too.

BTW, I remember a game where, if I have this right, he got his head stuck in the ivy. Maybe I was completely delusional (I was only 4 at the time), but I ran a search and didn't come up with anything. Does anybody remember this?

Red Barchetta
01-11-2010, 07:48 PM
Now it has been reported that the Cubs have told Dawson that if he enters the hall as a Cub, they will retire his number. This crap just really needs to stop. I know it isn't Dawson's decision, but if he lobbies the Hall to be a Cub for this reason, the Hall might decide to have him go in as an Expo.


Typical of the same organization (under Dallas Green) who basically made Dawson and his agent beg to play for the Cubs. Remember when he showed up at spring training with his agent offering the Cubs the opportunity for a blank check contract?! Dawson then went on to win the MVP award, which I believe was the first time in a long time (or ever?!) that an MVP was awarded to a player on a last place team.

Which proves that Dallas Green was correct...The Cubs didn't need Dawson as they could have come in last place that season just as easily without him! :tongue: I don't follow the Cubs, however that season must have been God awful!

Marqhead
01-27-2010, 08:29 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4861968

Expos.

Noir
01-27-2010, 10:41 AM
Viva Les Expos!

dickallen15
01-27-2010, 11:31 AM
LMAO at Dawson being dissappointed he's not wearing a Cubs hat into the HOF. He's the guy who signed a contract to wear a Marlins hat to the HOF, so if MLB never took control of the decision, that is the hat he would have been contractually obligated to wear.

whitem0nkey
01-27-2010, 11:37 AM
this is what Fark.com chose to use. as their headline.

The Baseball Hall of Fame decides it would be less embarrassing for Andre Dawson to go into the Hall of Fame representing a team that no longer exists instead of the Cubs

ewokpelts
01-27-2010, 01:34 PM
Typical of the same organization (under Dallas Green) who basically made Dawson and his agent beg to play for the Cubs. Remember when he showed up at spring training with his agent offering the Cubs the opportunity for a blank check contract?! Dawson then went on to win the MVP award, which I believe was the first time in a long time (or ever?!) that an MVP was awarded to a player on a last place team.

Which proves that Dallas Green was correct...The Cubs didn't need Dawson as they could have come in last place that season just as easily without him! :tongue: I don't follow the Cubs, however that season must have been God awful!ARod is the only other player to win an Mvp on a last place team.

Fenway
01-27-2010, 05:53 PM
This is worthy of bringing out the 'Expos Polka'

ZuTbL2FKJxk


iExQODSnMHM


Nancy told me she considered Fernand Lapierre to be the BEST organist in MLB and she included herself.

Gawd I miss the Expos so much

WhiteSox5187
01-27-2010, 06:33 PM
ARod is the only other player to win an Mvp on a last place team.

Didn't Ernie Banks do it too? Twice?

DumpJerry
01-27-2010, 07:13 PM
Didn't Ernie Banks do it too? Twice?
Nope. The Cubs did not finish in last place the two years Banks won it ('58 and '59).

gobears1987
01-27-2010, 07:20 PM
Besides 1987, his hall of fame numbers were with the Expos. His Cubs career was good, but not hall of fame.

I can't call any of Andre Dawson's numbers "hall of fame numbers."

TDog
01-27-2010, 07:48 PM
I can't call any of Andre Dawson's numbers "hall of fame numbers."

Of course, the Hall of Fame isn't about numbers.

I was guessing that the Hall of Fame would go with the Expos for the plaque if only because the Expos deserve more representation in the Hall of Fame.

This discussion should put to rest the idea that players decide what cap will go on their plaques, anyway.

Craig Grebeck
01-27-2010, 08:53 PM
Dear Andre,

You didn't deserve to make it in the first place. Quit your bellyaching and just accept that you are a lucky, lucky man.

Sincerely,
Earth

hdog1017
01-27-2010, 08:54 PM
I am happy that Dawson will go in as an Expo just so the hat and logo get some more face-time.

asindc
01-27-2010, 08:59 PM
This might have already been covered, but I think the only reason Dawson wanted to go in as a Cub is to take advantage of Cubbie HoF member perks. Perhaps he should impress upon the Nats' FO to get he and Gary Carter involved somehow. Not the same, true, but might be worth a try.

Hitmen77
01-27-2010, 09:49 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4861968

Expos.

He had 11 years with the Expos and 6 years with the Cubs. He should indeed go in as an Expo.

soxinem1
01-28-2010, 10:46 AM
He had 11 years with the Expos and 6 years with the Cubs. He should indeed go in as an Expo.

100% correct.