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View Full Version : Pierre trade finalized


salty99
12-18-2009, 01:50 PM
We send Link and Ely.

tstrike2000
12-18-2009, 01:52 PM
Juan says he's excited to be here and playing around Ozzie again. Hope it turns out to be a win-win for everyone.

soltrain21
12-18-2009, 01:57 PM
Here's to hoping Pierre is a table setter for the next two years.

cws05champ
12-18-2009, 02:03 PM
We send Link and Ely.

That takes the 40 man back down to 39 with Link on the move....Adam Dunn, come on down!!

VeeckAsInWreck
12-18-2009, 02:08 PM
That takes the 40 man back down to 39 with Link on the move....Adam Dunn, come on down!!

I'd go from teal to deep pink on that one.

sox1970
12-18-2009, 02:17 PM
That takes the 40 man back down to 39 with Link on the move....Adam Dunn, come on down!!

Actually they're back to 40. We claimed Freddy Dolsi from Detroit.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 02:46 PM
Actually they're back to 40. We claimed Freddy Dolsi from Detroit.
I read his wiki page. His first major league pitch was hit over the CF fence by Manny Ramirez. His numbers aren't very bad, but he hardly strikes out anyone.

Zisk77
12-18-2009, 02:50 PM
Actually they're back to 40. We claimed Freddy Dolsi from Detroit.


That may be a good claim, he has a nice arm.

I am getting so sick of the name Adam Dunn. We are not getting him. Why would we give up good prospects and take on his salary when we could have signed a better hitter like Matsui for half the price and zero prospects?

doublem23
12-18-2009, 02:52 PM
That may be a good claim, he has a nice arm.

I am getting so sick of the name Adam Dunn. We are not getting him. Why would we give up good prospects and take on his salary when we could have signed a better hitter like Matsui for half the price and zero prospects?

Hideki Matsui is better than Adam Dunn? That's, at best, debatable.

Zisk77
12-18-2009, 03:01 PM
Hideki Matsui is better than Adam Dunn? That's, at best, debatable.


i don't think there is any debate. Dunn hits more homers but Matsui has plenty of power, but hits for a better average, doesn't strike out, and hits well in the clutch. Matsui is a better more rounded hitter. Dunn is a slugger.

doublem23
12-18-2009, 03:07 PM
i don't think there is any debate. Dunn hits more homers but Matsui has plenty of power, but hits for a better average, doesn't strike out, and hits well in the clutch. Matsui is a better more rounded hitter. Dunn is a slugger.

Except Dunn gets on base more often than Matsui and hits for better all-around power. Oh, and he's six years younger.

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 03:12 PM
i don't think there is any debate. Dunn hits more homers but Matsui has plenty of power, but hits for a better average, doesn't strike out, and hits well in the clutch. Matsui is a better more rounded hitter. Dunn is a slugger.
2004: 46 HR, 102 RBI, .388 OBP, .956 OPS
2005: 40 HR, 101 RBI, .387 OBP, .927 OPS
2006: 40 HR, 92 RBI, .365 OBP, .855 OPS
2007: 40 HR, 106 RBI, .386 OBP, .940 OPS
2008: 40 HR, 100 RBI, .386 OBP, .898 OPS
2009: 38 HR, 105 RBI, .398 OBP, .928 OPS

I think there is plenty of room for debate. Also factor in the injury risk.

Zisk77
12-18-2009, 06:22 PM
Except Dunn gets on base more often than Matsui and hits for better all-around power. Oh, and he's six years younger.
getting on base while important has nothing to do with who is a better hitter neither does age. Those are valid reasons why someone might want dunn over matsui or why he might be a batter acquisition.

I said Matsui is an all around better HITTER. I also said Dunn hits more hrs. but that Matsui hits a lot himself.

Its Debatable who would be better fit for the team. It may be Dunn. However, I do not think its debatable that Matsui is a better hitter. He hits for power, average, and run production. He doesn't strike out alot. he's a proven clutch hitter. Dunn hits the ball real far and sometimes guys are on base when he does.

MISoxfan
12-18-2009, 07:19 PM
Getting on base has nothing to do with who the better hitter is? Really??

VeeckAsInWreck
12-18-2009, 07:22 PM
I read his wiki page. His first major league pitch was hit over the CF fence by Manny Ramirez. His numbers aren't very bad, but he hardly strikes out anyone.

Some pitching coach on the Sox will work with him.

Brian26
12-18-2009, 08:26 PM
getting on base while important has nothing to do with who is a better hitter neither does age. Those are valid reasons why someone might want dunn over matsui or why he might be a batter acquisition.

I said Matsui is an all around better HITTER. I also said Dunn hits more hrs. but that Matsui hits a lot himself.

Its Debatable who would be better fit for the team. It may be Dunn. However, I do not think its debatable that Matsui is a better hitter. He hits for power, average, and run production. He doesn't strike out alot. he's a proven clutch hitter. Dunn hits the ball real far and sometimes guys are on base when he does.

Please, folks, think before you post.

Yes, sometimes guys are on base for Matsui too.

Who's this Debatable guy. Can he DH?

doublem23
12-18-2009, 09:53 PM
getting on base while important has nothing to do with who is a better hitter neither does age. Those are valid reasons why someone might want dunn over matsui or why he might be a batter acquisition.

:twocents: The whole point of hitting is to get on base.

NardiWasHere
12-18-2009, 10:01 PM
Welcome to the real family papi

:ozzie

cards press box
12-19-2009, 11:15 AM
Here's to hoping Pierre is a table setter for the next two years.

Or maybe more than two if he stays healthy and effective.

veeter
12-19-2009, 11:19 AM
Or maybe more than two if he stays healthy and effective.Let's hope he has a Jermaine Dye, Jose Valentin or Scotty Podsednik type White Sox renaissance. It could happen.

DSpivack
12-19-2009, 11:35 AM
Let's hope he has a Jermaine Dye, Jose Valentin or Scotty Podsednik type White Sox renaissance. It could happen.

It's not like he was bad in LA, he just didn't get every day playing time because of their crowded outfield.

Zisk77
12-19-2009, 02:20 PM
:twocents: The whole point of hitting is to get on base.

No duh...But my point was who is a better hitter. Is Dunn or Matsui a better hitter. Not who is more valuable, who is a better baseball player, who is better at getting on base, who is a fancier dresser. Everything else is just changing the argument. i gave my reasons why I believe Matsui is the better HITTER.

Zisk77
12-19-2009, 02:23 PM
Please, folks, think before you post.

Yes, sometimes guys are on base for Matsui too.

Who's this Debatable guy. Can he DH?

yes I was being quite factetious when I was saying this. However Dunn does three things at a high rate K, Hr, Walk. He drives in Most of his runs by hitting hrs with guys on base (which is a nice thing).

Matsui also drives in runs with hits that aren't hr,s, sac flies and situational hitting in addition to his home runs.

Debatable is a 5 tool player and 2 time MVP.

MISoxfan
12-19-2009, 02:25 PM
Getting on base is part of hitting, it isn't changing the argument at all. I'd rather have 9 Dunn's hitting on my team instead of 9 Matsui's.

JermaineDye05
12-19-2009, 02:35 PM
Are the Sox planning any press conference to introduce Juan?

Zisk77
12-19-2009, 02:53 PM
Getting on base is part of hitting, it isn't changing the argument at all. I'd rather have 9 Dunn's hitting on my team instead of 9 Matsui's.

if you can't see how taking a a walk is a separate skill than hitting a baseball then I guess their is no point in arguing. Matsui is better at hitting a baseball than Dunn. Dunn is better at getting on base I rather have 9 matsui's but both the 9 Dunn's and the 9 Matsui's would both suck.

MISoxfan
12-19-2009, 03:34 PM
Do you also consider getting a good read, taking a good route, and having good range separate from fielding?

CLUBHOUSE KID
12-19-2009, 03:38 PM
if you can't see how taking a a walk is a separate skill than hitting a baseball then I guess their is no point in arguing. Matsui is better at hitting a baseball than Dunn. Dunn is better at getting on base I rather have 9 matsui's but both the 9 Dunn's and the 9 Matsui's would both suck.

I actually get what you are saying. I don't get how other don't.

CLUBHOUSE KID
12-19-2009, 03:39 PM
Getting on base but when he says better hitter he is not saying hitting meaning HR'S RBI OBP he is saying when he puts the ball in play he does more or better things.

MISoxfan
12-19-2009, 03:44 PM
I can easily understand that hitting the baseball is separate than walking. However hitting is synonymous with batting.

tm1119
12-19-2009, 04:39 PM
yes I was being quite factetious when I was saying this. However Dunn does three things at a high rate K, Hr, Walk. He drives in Most of his runs by hitting hrs with guys on base (which is a nice thing).

Matsui also drives in runs with hits that aren't hr,s, sac flies and situational hitting in addition to his home runs.

Debatable is a 5 tool player and 2 time MVP.

Sorry, but if you actually took the time to look up the stats you would realize that you are completely wrong.

Matsui has only played close to a full season twice in the past 4 seasons so ill only be using the stats from those 2 years (07, 09)

Matsui in 07- 28 doubles, 4 triples, 99 singles, 73 walks, 633 PA
Matsui in 09- 21 doubles, 1 triple, 67 singles, 63 walks, 526PA

Dunn in 07- 27 doubles, 2 triples, 69 singles, 101 walks, 632 PA
Dunn in 08- 23 doubles, 0 triples, 59 singles, 122 walks, 651 PA (down year)
Dunn in 09- 29 doubles, 0 triples, 79 singles, 116 walks, 668 PA

So pretty much Dunn hits for just as many doubles, more home runs, and gets a ton more walks. Dunn is also a workhorse while Matsui is an injury waiting to happen. Seems like a no brainer to me of who I'd rather have.

ChiTownTrojan
12-19-2009, 05:25 PM
I can't believe there are people out there who are arguing for Matsui over Dunn. Dunn is a better hitter, batter, player, or whatever you want to call it. He would play in a lot more games. He would be much more valuable on the White Sox. And he would also be much more expensive, which is why there is no point to this argument.

ChiTownTrojan
12-19-2009, 05:29 PM
if you can't see how taking a a walk is a separate skill than hitting a baseball then I guess their is no point in arguing. Matsui is better at hitting a baseball than Dunn. Dunn is better at getting on base I rather have 9 matsui's but both the 9 Dunn's and the 9 Matsui's would both suck.

I'll go out on a limb and say a lineup of 9 Adam Dunns would score the most runs in baseball. When you've got somebody as good as him at every spot in the lineup, you don't need anyone to fill traditional roles (like leadoff hitter, #2 hitter, bottom-of-the-order guy, etc.) They might have trouble fielding a few of those positions, though...

RockJock07
12-19-2009, 05:45 PM
Sorry, but if you actually took the time to look up the stats you would realize that you are completely wrong.

Matsui has only played close to a full season twice in the past 4 seasons so ill only be using the stats from those 2 years (07, 09)

Matsui in 07- 28 doubles, 4 triples, 99 singles, 73 walks, 633 PA
Matsui in 09- 21 doubles, 1 triple, 67 singles, 63 walks, 526PA

Dunn in 07- 27 doubles, 2 triples, 69 singles, 101 walks, 632 PA
Dunn in 08- 23 doubles, 0 triples, 59 singles, 122 walks, 651 PA (down year)
Dunn in 09- 29 doubles, 0 triples, 79 singles, 116 walks, 668 PA

So pretty much Dunn hits for just as many doubles, more home runs, and gets a ton more walks. Dunn is also a workhorse while Matsui is an injury waiting to happen. Seems like a no brainer to me of who I'd rather have.

Dunn is simply a better player, the numbers speak for themselves. Dunn's plate discipline is something that Matsui can only dream of.

UofCSoxFan
12-19-2009, 05:50 PM
The only reason anyone would ever argue Matsui over Dunn is that they are clinging to their little league coach saying how bad strike outs are. Yes, a fly ball our ground ball out has a chance to be productive and a strike out does not, but strike outs are perfectly accetable when you slug for the power that Dunn has. Plus, the fact that he walks a ton cannot be dismissed. Yes, if two players had the same on base percentage but different averages, I would clearly take the one that has the higher average, since hits can advance runners multiple bases where walks cannot, but anyone that says getting on base isn't the mark of a good hitter needs to take a deep breath and think about that statement.

chisox616
12-19-2009, 06:22 PM
Why are people even arguing over Matsui? He's already signed. The Nats have also expressed they are not looking to trade Dunn, but that will obviously change around the trade deadline.

Anyways, this is a thread about Juan Pierre...how did this argument even break out? :scratch:

I can't wait to see Juan on the Sox. He has this hilarious aura about him, even his name--Juan Pierre. It's crazy thinking we possibly have a great table starter on this team without taking a risk on Pods. Plenty of steals, and even if his OBP isn't that high, when he gets on he will be a pest. My favorite move of the offseason so far (although there hasn't been a lot of competition).

So, are the Sox going to hold a press conference announcing him? Someone asked this earlier and I haven't seen it answered yet.

Brian26
12-19-2009, 09:42 PM
The only reason anyone would ever argue Matsui over Dunn is that they are clinging to their little league coach saying how bad strike outs are. Yes, a fly ball our ground ball out has a chance to be productive and a strike out does not, but strike outs are perfectly accetable when you slug for the power that Dunn has. Plus, the fact that he walks a ton cannot be dismissed. Yes, if two players had the same on base percentage but different averages, I would clearly take the one that has the higher average, since hits can advance runners multiple bases where walks cannot, but anyone that says getting on base isn't the mark of a good hitter needs to take a deep breath and think about that statement.

Dunn fits in with the currently constructed lineup much better than he would have two or three years ago.

CLUBHOUSE KID
12-19-2009, 09:58 PM
Anyways, this is a thread about Juan Pierre...how did this argument even break out? :scratch:

Because someone said something in teal and then someone said put it in pink and then...

John Barrett
12-19-2009, 10:45 PM
I'll go out on a limb and say a lineup of 9 Adam Dunns would score the most runs in baseball. When you've got somebody as good as him at every spot in the lineup, you don't need anyone to fill traditional roles (like leadoff hitter, #2 hitter, bottom-of-the-order guy, etc.) They might have trouble fielding a few of those positions, though...

would that be 9 mini dunns or regular Dunns? They could
NEVER beat 9 mini Ditkas!