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1908<2005
12-18-2009, 12:00 PM
Jim Hendry is officially the worst GM in baseball. Won't have to worry about the Scrubs next year.

thomas35forever
12-18-2009, 12:02 PM
Those players cancel each other out. Nothing to evaluate here.

1908<2005
12-18-2009, 12:03 PM
Those players cancel each other out. Nothing to evaluate here.

You can't be serious. Carlos Silva is awful to say the least. Milton may be a hothead but he's a pretty good baseball player. Great trade for the Mariners.

sox1970
12-18-2009, 12:05 PM
Mariners got a steal. Bradley will probably do great in a smaller market, and on a better team.

slavko
12-18-2009, 12:07 PM
Let me be the first of many: Hiyo Silva.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 12:09 PM
I love this board.

Just to keep kicking sand on the Cubs and Hendry now everyone agrees Bradley is going to have a bounce back year.

Shame on Hendry for trading him :rolleyes:

chunk
12-18-2009, 12:09 PM
^^^ I wanted the Sox to get Bradley.


Jack Z is a great GM and is doing an unbelievable job cleaning up after Bavasi.

To get anything of value and cut salary with Silva is ridiculous.

JermaineDye05
12-18-2009, 12:11 PM
DAMN YOU!!

I just got this on twitter :D:

(I'm loving following the baseball experts tweets. Really lets you know about deals before the happen)

SoxSpeed22
12-18-2009, 12:16 PM
That was probably the best anyone could do in that situation. The Mariners get a nice bat, if he doesn't get hurt.

DonnieDarko
12-18-2009, 12:17 PM
Let me be the first of many: Hiyo Silva.

Isn't it supposed to be "hiho"?

^^^ I wanted the Sox to get Bradley.

...for the love of God, why? O_o

JohnnyInnsbrook
12-18-2009, 12:17 PM
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA:D:


"Bradley's under contract for $21MM, Silva for $24MM"

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/cubs-mariners-talking-bradley-trade.html

Please tell me the cubs have to pick up silva's contract.

VeeckAsInWreck
12-18-2009, 12:18 PM
Carlos Silva? He's the only Twins player I've ever been sad to see leave the division. I remember him getting rocked by the Sox quite a bit.

Moves like that make me appreciate the job Kenny Williams does for us.

Zisk77
12-18-2009, 12:19 PM
Silva is owed 25mil Bradley 21 mil. If the Cubs aren't getting $ in return why not just waive Silva? Silva sucks and he is coming off arm surgery to boot (but he is the same as Garland).

chunk
12-18-2009, 12:24 PM
Isn't it supposed to be "hiho"?



...for the love of God, why? O_o

Because even in a down year he managed a .378 OBP and is an excellent hitter. He would've been perfect at DH. And considering the Cubs are actually taking on money to move him, I'm sure we could've sent Linebrink their way.

Sargeant79
12-18-2009, 12:25 PM
Wow...what a terrible trade for the Cubs. Not only are they still on the hook for about the same amount of money, but they don't even get a useful player in return.

Even if Bradley is injured all of next year, this trade is still a win for the Mariners as long as Bradley dosn't act like a complete jackass. They're better off throwing a AAA guy out there every 5th day than they would be trotting Silva out there.

CPditka
12-18-2009, 12:27 PM
This deal is too funny. If the Cubs dont get a prospect or $$ back they just got hosed. Theres bad players, and then theres Carlos $ilva.

seventyseven
12-18-2009, 12:35 PM
This trade is embarrassing, even by Cub standards.

VMSNS
12-18-2009, 12:37 PM
:rolling:

How does Jim Hendry still have a job?

VeeckAsInWreck
12-18-2009, 12:38 PM
This thread is full of schadenfreude. :cool:

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 12:40 PM
I don't get all the Hendry/Cub flaming here.

He got rid of the guy he had to get rid of at any expense possible. He was a cancer according to the World.

So what does it matter who and what he got back when the salaries appear to be a near wash?


I don't get it.

seventyseven
12-18-2009, 12:45 PM
I don't get all the Hendry/Cub flaming here.

He got rid of the guy he had to get rid of at any expense possible. He was a cancer according to the World.

So what does it matter who and what he got back when the salaries appear to be a near wash?


I don't get it.

Because Bradley's not a .220 hitter with limited power. He's actually a solid player. He had value, and Hendry failed to get any return.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 12:47 PM
Because Bradley's not a .220 hitter with limited power. He's actually a solid player. He had value, and Hendry failed to get any return.
He didn't have value. That's why Hendry had to settle for Silva and hope switching leagues and arm surgery does something for him.

chunk
12-18-2009, 12:48 PM
Because Bradley's not a .220 hitter with limited power. He's actually a solid player. He had value, and Hendry failed to get any return.

He did worse than that. He actually took on salary to move him. Bradley is owed 21 million and Silva is owed 24 million. That is a terrible move in every aspect of the game.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 12:50 PM
He didn't have value. That's why Hendry had to settle for Silva and hope switching leagues and arm surgery does something for him.


Exactly.


How does anyone with a brain actually think Bradley had any value after what went down last year and also his extremely mediocre numbers at the dish?

soltrain21
12-18-2009, 12:50 PM
It's being reported that the Cubs will get 9 million in the deal.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 12:51 PM
He did worse than that. He actually took on salary to move him. Bradley is owed 21 million and Silva is owed 24 million. That is a terrible move in every aspect of the game.

He took on $3million for the next two years. Big deal.

They were going to release Bradley had they not traded him, his salary does not count.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 12:52 PM
It's being reported that the Cubs will get 9 million in the deal.


Well there you go.

The Cubs come out $6 million ahead.

chunk
12-18-2009, 12:55 PM
Exactly.


How does anyone with a brain actually think Bradley had any value after what went down last year and also his extremely mediocre numbers at the dish?

Because he was clearly thrown under the bus as a scapegoat for the Cubs' failure as a team?

soltrain21
12-18-2009, 12:55 PM
Well there you go.

The Cubs come out $6 million ahead.

Heyman is now only saying they are sending 6 million.

CHISOXFAN13
12-18-2009, 12:56 PM
Well there you go.

The Cubs come out $6 million ahead.

Makes more sense to me now. I would have thought they'd been better off just flat out releasing Bradley, but getting that chunk of money back is a solid move for both teams.

Silva sucks, but there was no way Bradley was coming back. There isn't a team out there that was going to give the Cubs anything of value.

seventyseven
12-18-2009, 12:59 PM
Bradley's value declined because Hendry and Piniella couldn't shut their mouths to the press about how Bradley had to be traded, even before last season ended.

Even so, they still could have done better than this.

goofymsfan
12-18-2009, 12:59 PM
M's trade Carlos Silva to the Cubs for Milton Bradley. Oh the joy.:rolleyes:

Oops forgot the link (http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091218&content_id=7828862&vkey=news_sea&fext=.jsp&c_id=sea)

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 01:00 PM
Bradley is far more valuable than Silva. How can people not realize this? As if there was any doubt remaining, this proves Hendry is abysmal.

kobo
12-18-2009, 01:00 PM
He didn't have value. That's why Hendry had to settle for Silva and hope switching leagues and arm surgery does something for him.
If the Cubs would have ate some of the contract I bet Hendry could have done better. They weren't going to do that, so they swapped bad contracts. The Cubs put themselves in this position by the way they handled the Bradley situation at the end of the year.

cws05champ
12-18-2009, 01:02 PM
Heyman is now only saying they are sending 6 million.
Really the Cubs are only $2M ahead now. Silva's deal is 11.5/11.5 and a 12M option for 2012 (w/$2M buyout)= $25M. Bradley's deal is 9/12= 21M.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 01:02 PM
Bradley's value declined because Hendry and Piniella couldn't shut their mouths to the press about how Bradley had to be traded, even before last season ended.

Even so, they still could have done better than this.

Yeah, no one knew Milton Bradley was nothing but trouble. C'mon, he's been doing this for 10 years. If Hendry or Piniella are at fault for anything, its not realizing they weren't going to change him. They realized even if he puts up numbers, he's not worth the trouble. He'll eventually be a problem wherever he goes.

VeeckAsInWreck
12-18-2009, 01:03 PM
Maybe Ichiro will be the one to finally get through to Bradley.

I get the feeling Bradley is going to bounce back now that he's going back to the AL West.

Also, he's playing for a contender now. If Bradley has any brains he'll shut up and play.

kobo
12-18-2009, 01:03 PM
They were going to release Bradley had they not traded him, his salary does not count.
I find that hard to believe.

Zisk77
12-18-2009, 01:03 PM
So, now the cubs rid themselves of a clubhouse cancer,and save 6 million, but they acquire a guy who is good in the clubhouse but sucks & is untradeable (except to the cubs :D:).

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 01:07 PM
Bradley is far more valuable than Silva. How can people not realize this? As if there was any doubt remaining, this proves Hendry is abysmal.
So Hendry must have surprised you with his astuteness when he inked Milton last year.

Every move the Cubs make, people here blast. Could you imagine if Hendry would have traded for Pierre and Teahan and signed Vizquel and Jones this offseason? Everyone would be laughing. There would be post after post about his ineptness. Milton Bradley is the classic addition by subtraction. Baseball is played on a field, not on a computer. Numbers aren't everything.

goofymsfan
12-18-2009, 01:11 PM
Maybe Ichiro will be the one to finally get through to Bradley.

I get the feeling Bradley is going to bounce back now that he's going back to the AL West.

Also, he's playing for a contender now. If Bradley has any brains he'll shut up and play.

I can only hope....

Also this could be the left fielder the M's are in need of, plus there is the possibility of Griffey keeping "The board Game" in line as well. 2010 will definitely be an interesting year.

oeo
12-18-2009, 01:11 PM
Exactly.


How does anyone with a brain actually think Bradley had any value after what went down last year and also his extremely mediocre numbers at the dish?

The Cubs and their fans have no one to blame but themselves.

oeo
12-18-2009, 01:12 PM
So Hendry must have surprised you with his astuteness when he inked Milton last year.

Every move the Cubs make, people here blast. Could you imagine if Hendry would have traded for Pierre and Teahan and signed Vizquel and Jones this offseason? Everyone would be laughing. There would be post after post about his ineptness. Milton Bradley is the classic addition by subtraction. Baseball is played on a field, not on a computer. Numbers aren't everything.

Every move the Sox make, you reach the farthest you can to blast. And now you're defending the Cubs? ***?

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 01:12 PM
Jim Hendry is officially the worst GM in baseball. Won't have to worry about the Scrubs next year.

The Cubs could not possibly bring back Bradley, what did you want him to do? That would be a great first couple days, "Milton, what did you think about Derrick Lee and company throwing you under the bus as the season wound down last year?" "Milton, everyone thought the number one priority for the Cubs was getting rid of you, yet here you are, thoughts?"

Chrisaway
12-18-2009, 01:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_i3mReIifM

oeo
12-18-2009, 01:16 PM
The Cubs could not possibly bring back Bradley, what did you want him to do? That would be a great first couple days, "Milton, what did you think about Derrick Lee and company throwing you under the bus as the season winded down last year?" "Milton, everyone thought the number one priority for the Cubs was getting rid of you, yet here you are, thoughts?"

Carlos Silva is a $12 million AAA player. Sorry, regardless of how the Cubs diminished Bradley's trade value, it's a terrible trade. I'm sure they could have gotten something better if they were willing to eat some money. If this was Kenny Williams making this trade, you'd be bitching.

UofCSoxFan
12-18-2009, 01:16 PM
The M's are my pick to win the AL West next year. Yes some say their record was a bit of a mirage but I think they made out like bandits in the Halladay deal, I liked the Figgins signing, and if you put Bradley in the AL West, where he can DH a lot and also be out of the media spotlight, I think he will have a huge bounce back year.

Bradley didn't live up to his contract last year and certainly was an ass but he wasn't that bad a player --still above average. Carlos Silva flat out sucks. The funny thing is is the Cubs had to get $ as part of the deal as Silva is actually owed more than Bradley.

chunk
12-18-2009, 01:17 PM
So Hendry must have surprised you with his astuteness when he inked Milton last year.

Every move the Cubs make, people here blast. Could you imagine if Hendry would have traded for Pierre and Teahan and signed Vizquel and Jones this offseason? Everyone would be laughing. There would be post after post about his ineptness. Milton Bradley is the classic addition by subtraction. Baseball is played on a field, not on a computer. Numbers aren't everything.

Considering plenty of people are unhappy we made those moves, why would it be different if the Cubs did it?

johnnyg83
12-18-2009, 01:22 PM
Typo in the hedline ... MARINERS ... unless they're French maybe.

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 01:23 PM
Carlos Silva is a $12 million AAA player. Sorry, regardless of how the Cubs diminished Bradley's trade value, it's a terrible trade. I'm sure they could have gotten something better if they were willing to eat some money. If this was Kenny Williams making this trade, you'd be bitching.

I would not want Carlos Silva back, but what could you want back? They were not going to dump him for free some where, when everyone in baseball knew the Cubs had to deal him.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 01:26 PM
Every move the Sox make, you reach the farthest you can to blast. And now you're defending the Cubs? ***?
Really? Every move? I think you need to read again, I've given plenty of praise to KW for some of his moves. Hendry made a grave error trading for Bradley, but getting rid of him isn't exactly stupid.

Its funny, Hendry was the worst GM in baseball for signing Milton Bradley, and he's the worst GM in baseball for getting rid of Milton Bradley. I'm pretty sure that shows that no matter what he does, he's the worst GM in baseball even if he's built a team that makes the playoffs a decent percentage of the time.

kobo
12-18-2009, 01:27 PM
I would not want Carlos Silva back, but what could you want back? They were not going to dump him for free some where, when everyone in baseball knew the Cubs had to deal him.
Yes, but even though Bradley is an *******, his potential to bounce back next year is greater than Silva's potential. Heck, Bradley is the better player overall, so the Cubs just traded for a less talented but more expensive player just to save face for fans dumb enough to blame all of 2009 on Bradley.

DSpivack
12-18-2009, 01:28 PM
Yes, but even though Bradley is an *******, his potential to bounce back next year is greater than Silva's potential. Heck, Bradley is the better player overall, so the Cubs just traded for a less talented but more expensive player just to save face for fans dumb enough to blame all of 2009 on Bradley.

Comment on MLBTR said it best, that while Bradley is a tool, like any tool he can be used to some effect. Silva has no utility.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 01:30 PM
Wow...what a terrible trade for the Cubs. Not only are they still on the hook for about the same amount of money, but they don't even get a useful player in return.

Even if Bradley is injured all of next year, this trade is still a win for the Mariners as long as Bradley dosn't act like a complete jackass. They're better off throwing a AAA guy out there every 5th day than they would be trotting Silva out there.

What is there to suggest Bradley won't act like a total jackass?

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 01:30 PM
Yes, but even though Bradley is an *******, his potential to bounce back next year is greater than Silva's potential. Heck, Bradley is the better player overall, so the Cubs just traded for a less talented but more expensive player just to save face for fans dumb enough to blame all of 2009 on Bradley.

It has nothing to do with the fan base. The clubhouse could not return Milton Bradley next year. Why is this a bash the Cubs fanbase issue? This was a pure addition by subtraction move, not based on talent, but clubhouse atmosphere. I am not a huge chemistry guy, but he was detrimental to the Cubs.

oeo
12-18-2009, 01:30 PM
I would not want Carlos Silva back, but what could you want back? They were not going to dump him for free some where, when everyone in baseball knew the Cubs had to deal him.

They wouldn't have to pay his entire contract, but even if they did have to, they would be getting a pretty good player. What they're doing right now is throwing $12 million into the toilet.

doublem23
12-18-2009, 01:36 PM
Text from my Cub fan brother on this trade: "Carlos Silva? I think I need to call in sick to work."

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 01:39 PM
The Cubs are also receiving $9 million so they net a $5 million savings over just releasing Bradley.

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 01:42 PM
What exactly was the hang up with the Rays on the Burrell trade? How much were the Rays willing to take on? Anyone know?

WhiffleBall
12-18-2009, 01:43 PM
Cubs get Carlos Silva and his $25 million two year contract plus $9 million cash from the Mariners. Mariners get Bradley and his full $21 million two year contract.

Silva with his 8.6 ERA seems next to useless. Maybe the Cubs are hoping for a bump in performance due to switching to the NL. The Mariners are paying $30 million for two years of Bradley but are losing an almost useless player and $25 million in salary. Good (not great) deal for the Mariners.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 01:43 PM
What exactly was the hang up with the Rays on the Burrell trade? How much were the Rays willing to take on? Anyone know?
Apparently not $5 million.

Waysouthsider
12-18-2009, 01:44 PM
Also, he's playing for a contender now. If Bradley has any brains he'll shut up and play.


I think its his impulse control that's the problem...he's bright, he just appears to be immature and unable to exercise any self-control....

doublem23
12-18-2009, 01:48 PM
The Cubs are also receiving $9 million so they net a $5 million savings over just releasing Bradley.

Except now they're stuck with Carlos Silva.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 01:51 PM
Except now they're stuck with Carlos Silva.


No they are not. They are not stuck with him. They could release him the same way they would release Bradley and still be ahead $5 million.

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 01:52 PM
M's trade Carlos Silva to the Cubs for Milton Bradley. Oh the joy.:rolleyes:

Oops forgot the link (http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091218&content_id=7828862&vkey=news_sea&fext=.jsp&c_id=sea)

Seattle is a good market for Bradley, I really like what Mariners are doing this offseason. Cliff Lee was robbery.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 01:53 PM
Yes, but even though Bradley is an *******, his potential to bounce back next year is greater than Silva's potential. Heck, Bradley is the better player overall, so the Cubs just traded for a less talented but more expensive player just to save face for fans dumb enough to blame all of 2009 on Bradley.


What part of Bradley not being able to step foot into the Cub clubhouse again don't you guys understand?


The damage was that extreme here with the media, management, players, and fans throwing the guy under the bus.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 01:55 PM
Also, at some point, Silva was at least a mediocre pitcher. Maybe this impingement they supposedly corrected makes him serviceable. I'm sure Hendry would rather not have Silva. But Silva and $5 million is a lot more desirable to him than the misery that is Milton Bradley.

Waysouthsider
12-18-2009, 01:57 PM
Cliff Lee was robbery.

Isn't that the truth...I've heard the Phillies front office explanations for this, but I can't find a good reason for them to have done that deal.....must be awfully depressing in Filthydelphia right now...


The Mariners are really pulling out all of the stops...maybe Bradley will at least be as productive as he was for Texas.

doublem23
12-18-2009, 01:57 PM
What part of Bradley not being able to step foot into the Cub clubhouse again don't you guys understand?


The damage was that extreme here with the media, management, players, and fans throwing the guy under the bus.

Everybody understands that Bradley had to be traded this off-season, but that just means the whole thing is a waste. Even if now they can come out Five whole million dollars ahead after this Bradley/Silva deal, that still means they just wasted $25 million on the whole Milton Bradley experiment. Genius!!!

doublem23
12-18-2009, 01:59 PM
Also, at some point, Silva was at least a mediocre pitcher. Maybe this impingement they supposedly corrected makes him serviceable. I'm sure Hendry would rather not have Silva. But Silva and $5 million is a lot more desirable to him than the misery that is Milton Bradley.

Bradley was, at some point, an All-Star.

kobo
12-18-2009, 01:59 PM
What part of Bradley not being able to step foot into the Cub clubhouse again don't you guys understand?


The damage was that extreme here with the media, management, players, and fans throwing the guy under the bus.
And whose fault is that? Hendry had to know what he was getting into when they signed him in the first place. To not know is foolish. I know the guy has a bad rep and all, but for all the crap he has pulled he has performed. Something was different this season, and that comes down to the manager and other veterans for allowing this whole thing with Milton to get out of control. You'd think Piniella would have enough in him to treat the guy like a man, instead he calls Bradley a piece of ****. When the manager says something like that what does that tell the other players? I'm not saying the guy is a saint or trying to defend him, but it's foolish to place all the blame on Bradley and none on Piniella and Hendry.

oeo
12-18-2009, 02:02 PM
Really? Every move? I think you need to read again, I've given plenty of praise to KW for some of his moves.

Point is, you love to bitch about the Sox moves. Apparently laughing at the Cubs for making a terrible move is a big no-no.

Hendry made a grave error trading for Bradley, but getting rid of him isn't exactly stupid.

Trading him isn't stupid, it needed to happen. That's not the argument. The argument is who they got for him. They would be better off paying Bradley's contract and actually getting a player in return that can contribute. Silva, once again, belongs in AAA, regardless of what his big time contract says.

Its funny, Hendry was the worst GM in baseball for signing Milton Bradley, and he's the worst GM in baseball for getting rid of Milton Bradley. I'm pretty sure that shows that no matter what he does, he's the worst GM in baseball even if he's built a team that makes the playoffs a decent percentage of the time.

When was he the worst GM for signing Bradley? Their fans treated the guy like crap, then the media got all over him.

doublem23
12-18-2009, 02:03 PM
Isn't that the truth...I've heard the Phillies front office explanations for this, but I can't find a good reason for them to have done that deal.....must be awfully depressing in Filthydelphia right now...

:?:

They got a better pitcher and then signed him to a contract extension that's overall value is less than 1/2 the deals CC Sabathia and Johan Santana's contracts.

That was a great move for the Phillies.

DSpivack
12-18-2009, 02:03 PM
Isn't that the truth...I've heard the Phillies front office explanations for this, but I can't find a good reason for them to have done that deal.....must be awfully depressing in Filthydelphia right now...

The Mariners are really pulling out all of the stops...maybe Bradley will at least be as productive as he was for Texas.

I don't blame the Phillies if they were convinced that they would not be able to re-sign Lee. It's a huge risk for Seattle if he only pitches there for one season.

OmarLittle
12-18-2009, 02:04 PM
milton bradley was not the problem for them last year.

they should have kept him.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 02:04 PM
Everybody understands that Bradley had to be traded this off-season, but that just means the whole thing is a waste. Even if now they can come out Five whole million dollars ahead after this Bradley/Silva deal, that still means they just wasted $25 million on the whole Milton Bradley experiment. Genius!!!


Oh, I agree. The whole experiment was an epic failure but they had to get something done and get him moved.


It's the same way our Swisher experiment failed to the extreme. We traded our prospects (assets) for him and then had to ship him back out and basically got nothing for him.


**** happens like this.


I think the fact that this dark cloud is finaly gone for the Cubs, that is good news for them.

oeo
12-18-2009, 02:05 PM
What part of Bradley not being able to step foot into the Cub clubhouse again don't you guys understand?


The damage was that extreme here with the media, management, players, and fans throwing the guy under the bus.

What part of Carlos Silva not being able to pitch don't you understand? The issue is not trading Bradley, the issue is trading Bradley for a $12 million warm body. It's a waste. You're screwed by his contract, okay, pay it and trade for something worthwhile. Maybe a couple of prospects, maybe someone that can help you in 2010. Carlos Silva is AWFUL.

1908<2005
12-18-2009, 02:06 PM
milton bradley was not the problem for them last year.

they should have kept him.

I actually think he was a big part of the problem.

And the 9 mil they sent to the Cubs makes this deal much more bearable.

Hendry still blows.

oeo
12-18-2009, 02:07 PM
I think the fact that this dark cloud is finaly gone for the Cubs, that is good news for them.

Yeah, but here comes the rain of all the balls flying out of Wrigley.

chunk
12-18-2009, 02:07 PM
Point is, you love to bitch about the Sox moves. Apparently laughing at the Cubs for making a terrible move is a big no-no.



Trading him isn't stupid, it needed to happen. That's not the argument. The argument is who they got for him. They would be better off paying Bradley's contract and actually getting a player in return that can contribute. Silva, once again, belongs in AAA, regardless of what his big time contract says.



When was he the worst GM for signing Bradley? Their fans treated the guy like crap, then the media got all over him.

Hendry signing Bradley was a bad move because he's best suited at DH. He's a good player but shouldn't be in the NL. The reason trading him was a bad move was because they ended up with someone worse.

Had Hendry done a better job of controlling the rhetoric around Bradley it would've been easier to trade him. But moves like suspending him at the end of the seasoning resulted in him forcing his own hand.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 02:08 PM
What part of Carlos Silva not being able to pitch don't you understand? The issue is not trading Bradley, the issue is trading Bradley for a $12 million warm body. It's a waste. You're screwed by his contract, okay, pay it and trade for something worthwhile. Maybe a couple of prospects, maybe someone that can help you in 2010. Carlos Silva is AWFUL.


Carlos Silva has nothing to do with the whole equation.

Milton Bradley was GOING TO BE FLAT OUT RELEASED!

There was ZERO trade market for him, or a market that would at least allow the Cubs to acheive a minimal financial benefit.

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 02:09 PM
What part of Carlos Silva not being able to pitch don't you understand? The issue is not trading Bradley, the issue is trading Bradley for a $12 million warm body. It's a waste. You're screwed by his contract, okay, pay it and trade for something worthwhile. Maybe a couple of prospects, maybe someone that can help you in 2010. Carlos Silva is AWFUL.

You are acting like Hendry did not explore all options before settling on this.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 02:09 PM
Point is, you love to bitch about the Sox moves. Apparently laughing at the Cubs for making a terrible move is a big no-no.



Trading him isn't stupid, it needed to happen. That's not the argument. The argument is who they got for him. They would be better off paying Bradley's contract and actually getting a player in return that can contribute. Silva, once again, belongs in AAA, regardless of what his big time contract says.



When was he the worst GM for signing Bradley? Their fans treated the guy like crap, then the media got all over him.

Bradley has a history. As for not getting anything, wrong again. He is saving $5 million. He probably will sign Marlon Byrd.

MARTINMVP
12-18-2009, 02:09 PM
You know what's even funnier?

I think Cub fans are so embarrassed that their little message board website wannabe has no postings of the Bradley trade yet.

Seriously, their attempt at a WSI like site for the Cubs is pathetic.

1908<2005
12-18-2009, 02:13 PM
You know what's even funnier?

I think Cub fans are so embarrassed that their little message board website wannabe has no postings of the Bradley trade yet.

Seriously, their attempt at a WSI like site for the Cubs is pathetic.

What website?

doublem23
12-18-2009, 02:13 PM
I think the fact that this dark cloud is finaly gone for the Cubs, that is good news for them.

Perhaps, but it will depend on who they get to replace Bradley, which may get tricky since the Cubs are still eating quite a bit of his salary, now via giant waste of space Carlos Silva.

They've got a lot of problems on the North Side right now.. Soriano is getting older and, quite frankly, looks over the hill; Fukudome had a nice bounce-back year but at 33 it's hard to imagine how much longer he'll be able to play at a quality level, same with Derek Lee (34) and Aramis Ramirez (32), their pitching staff is aging horribly, and they're best reliever can't find the strike zone to save his life.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 02:14 PM
Bradley was, at some point, an All-Star.
So were a lot of people you wouldn't want any part of.

oeo
12-18-2009, 02:14 PM
You are acting like Hendry did not explore all options before settling on this.

Well, it wouldn't surprise me. This is the same guy that pays over market for free agents every year.

FWIW, I didn't know they were also getting $9 million in the trade. Makes it a little better, but paying Silva $7.5 million the next two years is still pretty bad.

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 02:14 PM
They've got a lot of problems on the North Side right now.. Soriano is getting older and, quite frankly, looks over the hill; Fukudome had a nice bounce-back year but at 33 it's hard to imagine how much longer he'll be able to play at a quality level, same with Derek Lee (34) and Aramis Ramirez (32), their pitching staff is aging horribly, and they're best reliever can't find the strike zone to save his life.

If they miss the playoffs again, dont you have to entertain the idea of blowing it all up?

chunk
12-18-2009, 02:17 PM
^^^ Absolutely, but they're saddled with so many bad contracts it won't be easy.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/cooperstown-confidential-dick-allen/

Obviously Bradley isn't on the same level of Allen, but their stories are quite similar. It's a good read even if you disagree with the comparison. What Allen went through is much much worse than Bradley though and I don't want to diminish that.

oeo
12-18-2009, 02:19 PM
If they miss the playoffs again, dont you have to entertain the idea of blowing it all up?

How are they going to do that? The team's a mess. They went for it all, had a chance in 2008, but blew it. Now the Cubs will go back to usual suckiness.

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 02:23 PM
How are they going to do that? The team's a mess. They went for it all, had a chance in 2008, but blew it. Now the Cubs will go back to usual suckiness.

How are they going to do that? I dont know by moving everyone they can? How the hell does anyone start rebuilding?

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 02:23 PM
I'm sorry, someone please tell me why they had to trade him. Please.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 02:23 PM
How are they going to do that? The team's a mess. They went for it all, had a chance in 2008, but blew it. Now the Cubs will go back to usual suckiness.


Let's remember. The NL and NL Central is a complete pile of suckfest. I would not be shocked if the Cubs win a division title here and there with this massive washed up pay-roll.


MLB is all about luck, and the Cubs can get lucky that some of these veterans have solid seasons again. Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly is still the best combo in the NL Central.

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 02:24 PM
I'm sorry, someone please tell me why they had to trade him. Please.

I'm sorry, but this is not quantifiable on a sheet of paper.

chunk
12-18-2009, 02:25 PM
I'm sorry, someone please tell me why they had to trade him. Please.

Because the team failed last year and someone had to be sacrificed.

doublem23
12-18-2009, 02:26 PM
If they miss the playoffs again, dont you have to entertain the idea of blowing it all up?

I honestly almost think they'd be prudent to go ahead and do it now. If you can honestly look at that roster and tell me you think they can compete in the National League, that is fine, I respect that opinion, but I really don't any more. It's clear this team's window of opportunity was 2007-2008, and you can still definitely get some solid pieces for guys like Lee, Ramirez, and maybe even Zambrano.

oeo
12-18-2009, 02:31 PM
How are they going to do that? I dont know by moving everyone they can? How the hell does anyone start rebuilding?

I guess I'll have to spell it out slow. Who are they going to move and how are they going to get anything worthwhile in order to "rebuild"? Maybe Aramis Ramirez? He's the only thing on their current roster who they could get a significant return for.

DirtySox
12-18-2009, 02:34 PM
Can we talk about how stupid the Grabow signing was too?

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 02:35 PM
I'm sorry, but this is not quantifiable on a sheet of paper.
Oh for ****'s sake. Get that garbage out of here. Let's have a legitimate discussion without that ridiculous bull****. Why did they have to trade him? Because the media scapegoated him? Because the fans scapegoated him? The guy got a bad rap.

Jack Z. for executive of the year, already. What could be better than dealing arguably the worst pitching contract in baseball for a useful outfielder?

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 02:39 PM
I honestly almost think they'd be prudent to go ahead and do it now. If you can honestly look at that roster and tell me you think they can compete in the National League, that is fine, I respect that opinion, but I really don't any more. It's clear this team's window of opportunity was 2007-2008, and you can still definitely get some solid pieces for guys like Lee, Ramirez, and maybe even Zambrano.
The team won 85 games with Zambrano out for a while, Ramirez out for a while, Gregg as a closer, Soriano playing on one leg, Milton Bradley reeking havoc. They add a CF and supposedly the talk is they will sign either Byrd, Ankiel or Pods, none ideal, move Fukdome to RF, their OF defense will be horrid, but their offense should be nice, and a division that is weak especially if STL doesn't bring back Holliday. They have some problems I hope the Sox never have, but they have a decent shot. Plus they have the hotshot SS in AA. It looks like a team that could still be pretty good, or the wheels may fall off.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 02:40 PM
Oh for ****'s sake. Get that garbage out of here. Let's have a legitimate discussion without that ridiculous bull****. Why did they have to trade him? Because the media scapegoated him? Because the fans scapegoated him? The guy got a bad rap.

Jack Z. for executive of the year, already. What could be better than dealing arguably the worst pitching contract in baseball for a useful outfielder?

Did you read what his teammates said about him? The guy is an ass.

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 02:41 PM
Did you read what his teammates said about him? The guy is an ass.
No. Link me. I assume, since it's so irrefutable that he's a malcontent, that you can find me some evidence in a snap. Go.

Also, just because the Cubs decided he had to go did not mean they had to trade him. They were determined to -- they were not forced.

Goodman6
12-18-2009, 02:44 PM
Perhaps, but it will depend on who they get to replace Bradley, which may get tricky since the Cubs are still eating quite a bit of his salary, now via giant waste of space Carlos Silva.

They've got a lot of problems on the North Side right now.. Soriano is getting older and, quite frankly, looks over the hill; Fukudome had a nice bounce-back year but at 33 it's hard to imagine how much longer he'll be able to play at a quality level, same with Derek Lee (34) and Aramis Ramirez (32), their pitching staff is aging horribly, and they're best reliever can't find the strike zone to save his life.

Really? In 2008, Fukudome hit .257, 10 HR, 58 RBI, 12 SB, 4 CS. In 2009, he hit .259, 11 HR, 54 RBI, 6 SB, 10 CS. Where is this bounce-back you speak of? Please educate me. What am I missing? The fact is he is a $12M per year player with a career BA of .258 and possesses marginal power is not that good of a base runner.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 02:45 PM
No. Link me. I assume, since it's so irrefutable that he's a malcontent, that you can find me some evidence in a snap. Go.

Also, just because the Cubs decided he had to go did not mean they had to trade him. They were determined to -- they were not forced.

Here's one
javascript:void(0)

I can't link it, just google cubs comment on Milton Bradley. You will find plenty.

jabrch
12-18-2009, 02:46 PM
Their fault for signing a known D-Bag in the first place. This was where they paid the piper for their sillyness last offseason.

They gave him 3 yrs guaranteed, backloaded it, when the rumor is that nobody else really wanted him. They wanted a middle of the order bat - which he isn't. They wanted a guy to play everyday - which he has a history of not doing. They wanted a guy who fit in with their fans/club, which guys who aren't "cuddly" don't tend to do well. Hendry talked about what he needed, and then got something different. Kinda funny...

He may very well do well in Seattle, but he was never going to succeed with the Cubs, and everyone knew that except Hendry. Even a large portion of their fans didn't like that signing. Just dumb. Bradley is a grade A douche and a guy who can't succeed as an everyday position player. At best, he could be an OK DH in the right environment (one where nobody talks to him and all they want him to do is hit)

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 02:47 PM
Really? In 2008, Fukudome hit .257, 10 HR, 58 RBI, 12 SB, 4 CS. In 2009, he hit .259, 11 HR, 54 RBI, 6 SB, 10 CS. Where is this bounce-back you speak of? Please educate me. What am I missing? The fact is he is a $12M per year player with a career BA of .258 and possesses marginal power is not that good of a base runner.
.259/.375/.421 is more impressive than .257/.359/.379.

Here's one
javascript:void(0)
I think you made an error. Or hope so, at least.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 02:48 PM
No. Link me. I assume, since it's so irrefutable that he's a malcontent, that you can find me some evidence in a snap. Go.

Also, just because the Cubs decided he had to go did not mean they had to trade him. They were determined to -- they were not forced.

He was a cancer. Baseball isn't just what is on the back of your baseball card. He has been a problem everywhere he has gone or Hendry would have been able to move him a lot easier.

doublem23
12-18-2009, 02:48 PM
Really? In 2008, Fukudome hit .257, 10 HR, 58 RBI, 12 SB, 4 CS. In 2009, he hit .259, 11 HR, 54 RBI, 6 SB, 10 CS. Where is this bounce-back you speak of? Please educate me. What am I missing? The fact is he is a $12M per year player with a career BA of .258 and possesses marginal power is not that good of a base runner.

WOW YOUR ARGUMENT REALLY WORKS WHEN YOU ONLY, CONVENIENTLY CITE STATISTICS THAT BACK YOUR POINT!!!

2008 SLG = .379, 2007 OBP = .359
2009 SLG = .421, 2008 OBP = .375

Look, I'm not saying Fukudome was a great player or that he's worth that stupid deal he's got, but 2008 Fukudome was a total trainwreck. 2009 Fukudome was, at worst, average. That's something, right?

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 02:49 PM
Here's one
javascript:void(0)

I can't link it, just google cubs comment on Milton Bradley. You will find plenty.
Not finding anything from players, still. Did Hendry suspend him and condemn his comments about their idiot fans? Yes. Probably because he wanted to save his job and look like he's doing something -- just like when a manager bunts with a struggling offense. At least they're active!

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 02:49 PM
Because the team failed last year and someone had to be sacrificed.


This is so typical of WSI and everyone being two-faced.

Everything from Bradley being a scapegoat, victim, having value, being good, etc has been mentioned here on this thread.


Meanwhile when it was suggested that perhaps the Sox go after him in an effort to dump Linebrink everyone thought the complete opposite of what is being said today.

So which is it?

Don't let the Cub hate stand in the way of reality here.

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 02:49 PM
He was a cancer. Baseball isn't just what is on the back of your baseball card. He has been a problem everywhere he has gone or Hendry would have been able to move him a lot easier.
Again, he never had to move him. Bradley doesn't like the media. Big deal. None of you like the media either.

kobo
12-18-2009, 02:49 PM
Carlos Silva has nothing to do with the whole equation.

Milton Bradley was GOING TO BE FLAT OUT RELEASED!

There was ZERO trade market for him, or a market that would at least allow the Cubs to acheive a minimal financial benefit.
If Bradley was going to be flat out released, as you claim, then why not bite the bullet and pay half of his salary and acquire prospects in a deal? All reports say the Cubs were not willing to pay any significant amount of his contract to move him, so I fail to understand how they would just release him eating all of that money and not get anything in return.

doublem23
12-18-2009, 02:51 PM
This is so typical of WSI and everyone being two-faced.

Everything from Bradley being a scapegoat, victim, having value, being good, etc has been mentioned here on this thread.


Meanwhile when it was suggested that perhaps the Sox go after him in an effort to dump Linebrink everyone thought the complete opposite of what is being said today.

So which is it?

Don't let the Cub hate stand in the way of reality here.

You know, there are 13,000 registered posters on this site, so IT IS POSSIBLE that those who posted in the speculative Bradley/Linebrink thread AREN'T THE SAME PEOPLE who are posting in this thread.

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 02:52 PM
You know, there are 13,000 registered posters on this site, so IT IS POSSIBLE that those who posted in the speculative Bradley/Linebrink thread AREN'T THE SAME PEOPLE who are posting in this thread.
Can't be. C'mon Dubs! You're so two-faced!

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 02:54 PM
If Bradley was going to be flat out released, as you claim, then why not bite the bullet and pay half of his salary and acquire prospects in a deal? All reports say the Cubs were not willing to pay any significant amount of his contract to move him, so I fail to understand how they would just release him eating all of that money and not get anything in return.

What reporsts state that and offer like this was proposed to them? Who and when? Every offer they received was for bad contracts. I heard of no one willing to give up any prospects for him or paying half his salary.

jabrch
12-18-2009, 02:55 PM
Hey Goof - will the media and the fans let Bradley just hide in a corner and hit? Or will they expect him to be a part of some greater fabric than just being a hitter?

oeo
12-18-2009, 02:56 PM
The team won 85 games with Zambrano out for a while, Ramirez out for a while, Gregg as a closer, Soriano playing on one leg, Milton Bradley reeking havoc. They add a CF and supposedly the talk is they will sign either Byrd, Ankiel or Pods, none ideal, move Fukdome to RF, their OF defense will be horrid, but their offense should be nice, and a division that is weak especially if STL doesn't bring back Holliday. They have some problems I hope the Sox never have, but they have a decent shot. Plus they have the hotshot SS in AA. It looks like a team that could still be pretty good, or the wheels may fall off.

I hope you have the same confidence about the Sox offense. The Cubs offense was just as weak, if not weaker than the Sox offense and it had similar injury problems.

Also, never trust in Cubs position prospects.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 02:57 PM
Not finding anything from players, still. Did Hendry suspend him and condemn his comments about their idiot fans? Yes. Probably because he wanted to save his job and look like he's doing something -- just like when a manager bunts with a struggling offense. At least they're active!
There were plenty of players that said he isolated himself and was the one to blame for his problems. I just read where he's willing to take 50% of the blame now, just his MO for his new town. He's just a misunderstood guy trying to make life better for his son than it was when he was growing up. For crying out loud, he makes $10 million a year, money shouldn't be a problem, why doesn't he set an example for his son if that what its really all about and act like a man?

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 02:57 PM
You know, there are 13,000 registered posters on this site, so IT IS POSSIBLE that those who posted in the speculative Bradley/Linebrink thread AREN'T THE SAME PEOPLE who are posting in this thread.


Could be.

But the tone of this thread based on that one is a complete 180 about the feelings towards the guy.

One would think the Cubs just traded away Jim Thome in his prime as one of the nicest guys in the game for Silva.

chunk
12-18-2009, 02:59 PM
Did you read what his teammates said about him? The guy is an ass.

There's a very long history of SOBs being successful in baseball. What does his attitude have to do with the fact that he's a good baseball player and they made a mistake trading him for Carlos Silva? Zambrano is a headcase and he wasn't run out town. Frank Thomas is well known for being surly. AJ is reviled. Bradley was a scapegoat, simple as that.

This is so typical of WSI and everyone being two-faced.

Everything from Bradley being a scapegoat, victim, having value, being good, etc has been mentioned here on this thread.


Meanwhile when it was suggested that perhaps the Sox go after him in an effort to dump Linebrink everyone thought the complete opposite of what is being said today.

So which is it?

Don't let the Cub hate stand in the way of reality here.

Actually you can go back and look in my post history, I wanted the Sox to acquire Bradley. I've been consistent on that.

Goodman6
12-18-2009, 03:00 PM
WOW YOUR ARGUMENT REALLY WORKS WHEN YOU ONLY, CONVENIENTLY CITE STATISTICS THAT BACK YOUR POINT!!!

2008 SLG = .379, 2007 OBP = .359
2009 SLG = .421, 2008 OBP = .375

Look, I'm not saying Fukudome was a great player or that he's worth that stupid deal he's got, but 2008 Fukudome was a total trainwreck. 2009 Fukudome was, at worst, average. That's something, right?

OK, thank you. Your point and comments are well taken. Have a Very Happy and Safe Holiday Season. Let's hope our Sox get to face Carlos Silva twice in the 6-games we play against the Cubs next season.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 03:03 PM
Actually you can go back and look in my post history, I wanted the Sox to acquire Bradley. I've been consistent on that.


Me too, I wanted the Sox to get him just for the sake of dumping Linebrink.

But I also don't blame the Cubs for having to take the action they took today because they had no choice. They basically crapped on their own bed with this one by de-valuating the guy's value by everyone just jumping on him and pounding him to the ground.

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 03:04 PM
There were plenty of players that said he isolated himself and was the one to blame for his problems. I just read where he's willing to take 50% of the blame now, just his MO for his new town. He's just a misunderstood guy trying to make life better for his son than it was when he was growing up. For crying out loud, he makes $10 million a year, money shouldn't be a problem, why doesn't he set an example for his son if that what its really all about and act like a man?
Plenty? Name names then.

OK, thank you. Your point and comments are well taken. Have a Very Happy and Safe Holiday Season. Let's hope our Sox get to face Carlos Silva twice in the 6-games we play against the Cubs next season.
This is extremely cordial for WSI standards. Nice to see.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 03:04 PM
There's a very long history of SOBs being successful in baseball. What does his attitude have to do with the fact that he's a good baseball player and they made a mistake trading him for Carlos Silva? Zambrano is a headcase and he wasn't run out town. Frank Thomas is well known for being surly. AJ is reviled. Bradley was a scapegoat, simple as that.



Actually you can go back and look in my post history, I wanted the Sox to acquire Bradley. I've been consistent on that.


This will be Bradley's 8th team. The longest he ever lasted with one is 216 games. He's a bigger problem than you think.

kobo
12-18-2009, 03:05 PM
What reporsts state that and offer like this was proposed to them? Who and when? Every offer they received was for bad contracts. I heard of no one willing to give up any prospects for him or paying half his salary.
We have no idea what offers the Cubs received or worked on for Bradley. There are reports from Tampa that they were trying to work a deal with them that included Burrell, but that Tampa wanted the Cubs to pick up some of Bradley's contract and they refused. Same with Texas. So again, if they wanted to trade the guy but yet were not willing to pay off any of his contract to do so, then why would they just flat out release him and get nothing in return?

My point is that Hendry could have possibly done a different deal and possibly could have gotten prospects from someone if he had been willing to eat some of the contract. It appears he was not willing to do so, and this is the deal he made.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 03:05 PM
Plenty? Name names then.


This is extremely cordial for WSI standards. Nice to see.

Dempster, DLee, Ramirez, Reed Johnson.. those are 4 I found when you ordered me to find something.

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 03:16 PM
Dempster, DLee, Ramirez, Reed Johnson.. those are 4 I found when you ordered me to find something.
Sticking to my guns. He did not have to go.

Goodman6
12-18-2009, 03:22 PM
Plenty? Name names then.


This is extremely cordial for WSI standards. Nice to see.

Thanks for the compliment. We are all good Sox fans so there is no need to get nasty with each other. I enjoy reading all the posts on WSI. Although I don't agree with all of them, I will always respect the opinion of a Sox fan. Doublem 23's response was good. I wasn't trying to start an argument as I was just looking for clarification on his comment about Fukudome. He provided that.

MARTINMVP
12-18-2009, 04:23 PM
Seattle is eating this all up. The MyNorthwest.com website, home to the Bonneville-owned Seattle stations, including KIRO-AM (ESPN Radio 710), has coverage and comments about the trade.

http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=422&sid=259223

They pretty much think this is a steal on their part...

cws05champ
12-18-2009, 04:27 PM
Sticking to my guns. He did not have to go.

You just can't measure how much of a douche bag the guy is in sabermetric terms. It was clear from the Manager on down that they were saying Milton would not be back, could not be back.

Sargeant79
12-18-2009, 04:56 PM
Seattle is eating this all up. The MyNorthwest.com website, home to the Bonneville-owned Seattle stations, including KIRO-AM (ESPN Radio 710), has coverage and comments about the trade.

http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=422&sid=259223

They pretty much think this is a steal on their part...

It is.

goofymsfan
12-18-2009, 04:56 PM
Hey Goof - will the media and the fans let Bradley just hide in a corner and hit? Or will they expect him to be a part of some greater fabric than just being a hitter?


Good question. Last year the team was like a family. They all were on the same page and it showed the the field. They all got along and the entire team had fun last year. I'm not a fan of Bradley to say the least but if he can come in and meld with the team fine, if not, at least we got rid of Silva and maybe Bradley will be shipped some where else. The fans here will get on players, but it usually takes a while for that to happen and they are fairly forgiving once a player does something good for the team.

NLaloosh
12-18-2009, 05:01 PM
If Bradley was going to be flat out released, as you claim, then why not bite the bullet and pay half of his salary and acquire prospects in a deal? All reports say the Cubs were not willing to pay any significant amount of his contract to move him, so I fail to understand how they would just release him eating all of that money and not get anything in return.

It's not that bad of a deal for the cubs. Silva might be somewaht useful in the NL. If he's not they can just release him and they would end paying $ 5-6 million less than they would have paid Bradley.

So, they save the money that they will need to add a CFer.

Pablo_Honey
12-18-2009, 05:05 PM
You just can't measure how much of a douche bag the guy is in sabermetric terms. It was clear from the Manager on down that they were saying Milton would not be back, could not be back.
That's why they should have kept him. It's like this: "We don't want this Bradley dude because he whines, bitches and moans about everything. How is this idiot getting paid 10 mil per year? We don't want him here so he should get out of here. Oh, by the way, any takers?" So pretty much, Cubs dug their own grave with Bradley.

I mean, Bradley is insane but he can definitely hit and he's a pretty decent fielder. His only downside, albeit a major one, is his health. When healthy, he will give the Mariners a good offensive production. Carlos Silva can't pitch for **** and this is indeed a steal for the Mariners. Even just a pure salary dumping would have been better than a Carlos Silva for the Cubs. Linebrink for Bradley made sense since Linebrink has potential to be decent. Carlos Silva is done. There is no way Cubs are getting any good production out of him, and he will hurt the team more than he will help.

thomas35forever
12-18-2009, 06:42 PM
You can't be serious. Carlos Silva is awful to say the least. Milton may be a hothead but he's a pretty good baseball player. Great trade for the Mariners.
They're bad for different reasons, which you listed. How any Cubs fan can be happy just because Bradley is gone is beyond me.

JB98
12-18-2009, 06:55 PM
I think the Mariners got the better of the deal. Bradley is an ass, but I think he can still play baseball. Silva, OTOH, can't play anymore.

Frater Perdurabo
12-18-2009, 07:06 PM
Just like KW lost both Swisher trades, Hendry lost both Bradley transactions.

But the net cost to KW on both Swisher losses was less than the net cost to Hendry on both Bradley losses.

jabrch
12-18-2009, 07:06 PM
if he can come in and meld with the team fine,


He's never done that - even when he played well. At his best, he's a loner - off in the corner, doing his own thing, DHing, and not talking to fans/media... If Seattle can offer him that - then good for you. He's never get that in Chicago.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 07:16 PM
Just like KW lost both Swisher trades, Hendry lost both Bradley transactions.

But the net cost to KW on both Swisher losses was less than the net cost to Hendry on both Bradley losses.


As of now, yes.

But if Silva can give the Cubs anything remotely serviceable as a #5 starter, I give the edge to Hendry.

The whole Swisher thing was an epic disaster for our club, plain and simple. Not that those prospects we gave up have amounted to anything great, but no one knew that at the time and they could have been chips KW could have used for other deals in the summer of 2008.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 07:17 PM
Sticking to my guns. He did not have to go.

When they signed him you said it was a dumb move. Now they get rid of him and its a dumb move. I'm not understanding this.

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 07:23 PM
When they signed him you said it was a dumb move. Now they get rid of him and its a dumb move. I'm not understanding this.
I'm guessing I said it was dumb because he can't stay healthy. If not, link me.

Is it dumb to trash a guy's reputation and then deal him for a terrible, awful, useless ballplayer when you could just utilize Bradley better? Yes.

Frater Perdurabo
12-18-2009, 07:24 PM
When they signed him you said it was a dumb move. Now they get rid of him and its a dumb move. I'm not understanding this.

Again, it's possible to lose two times on a player. Again, KW lost when he acquired Swisher, and he lost when he dumped Swisher. Thankfully he got payroll relief, and none of the prospects he traded to Oakland have come back to haunt the Sox.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 07:28 PM
I'm guessing I said it was dumb because he can't stay healthy. If not, link me.

Is it dumb to trash a guy's reputation and then deal him for a terrible, awful, useless ballplayer when you could just utilize Bradley better? Yes.

Milton trashed his reputation long ago. The Cubs were cutting their losses and saved a little money to sign Byrd, Ankiel or Pods.

If he can't stay healthy, why would 2010 and 2011 be any different? Not only does he have health issues, he's a malcontent.

I agree with you it was dumb to sign him in the first place, but generally when you make a mistake, cutting your losses is the way to go.

Brian26
12-18-2009, 07:28 PM
I'm not surprised that this thread has more posts than the "Sox Acquire JJ Putz" thread, which is over a week old now.

dickallen15
12-18-2009, 07:30 PM
Again, it's possible to lose two times on a player. Again, KW lost when he acquired Swisher, and he lost when he dumped Swisher. Thankfully he got payroll relief, and none of the prospects he traded to Oakland have come back to haunt the Sox.

He had payroll relief, so maybe Viciedo isn't a White Sox. Maybe Rios (although that would be a good thing) isn't a White Sox, maybe Peavy isn't a White Sox. At least one, maybe more wouldn't be here.

Ultimately, the Cubs lose $25 million in the deal and no players. Kind of like the Sox lost $20 million with Linebrink and no players.

BadBobbyJenks
12-18-2009, 07:31 PM
I guess I'll have to spell it out slow. Who are they going to move and how are they going to get anything worthwhile in order to "rebuild"? Maybe Aramis Ramirez? He's the only thing on their current roster who they could get a significant return for.

I guess I will have to spell it out even slower, yes you trade Aramis, Lee, Zambrano, you think they have zero value? Are you mental?

Brian26
12-18-2009, 07:36 PM
I guess I'll have to spell it out slow. Who are they going to move and how are they going to get anything worthwhile in order to "rebuild"? Maybe Aramis Ramirez? He's the only thing on their current roster who they could get a significant return for.

I guess I will have to spell it out even slower, yes you trade Aramis, Lee, Zambrano, you think they have zero value? Are you mental?

Ease up a bit, boys.

DrCrawdad
12-18-2009, 07:54 PM
So Hendry must have surprised you with his astuteness when he inked Milton last year.

Every move the Cubs make, people here blast. Could you imagine if Hendry would have traded for Pierre and Teahan and signed Vizquel and Jones this offseason? Everyone would be laughing. There would be post after post about his ineptness. Milton Bradley is the classic addition by subtraction. Baseball is played on a field, not on a computer. Numbers aren't everything.

Does Dick actually read the comments here? Dick's point is ridiculous. Sure some (rightly) criticized the Bradley acquisition but there were many posting even-handed appraisals of the deal and quite a few very positive about the Bradley signing. (Don't believe me, review it for yourself here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=108672&highlight=bradley).)

And further countering Dick's comments, last year if one dared to suggest the Cubbies had holes and potential holes they were attacked on this Sox board. The '09 Cubbies were a "solid team" with a lock on the NL Central and probably headed for the World Series, that's what many here were saying, apparently drunk on Cubbie KoolAid. So let's drop the crap about how WSI Sox fans simply blast every move of the Cubbies. It's a misguided generalization, no actually it's just wrong.

Every move the Sox make, you reach the farthest you can to blast. And now you're defending the Cubs? ***?

It happens here quite often. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=110510&highlight=bradley)

Jerko
12-18-2009, 08:04 PM
FWIW, Harden is gone, Lilly is hurt, the cubs can kinda USE Silva.

oeo
12-18-2009, 08:32 PM
I guess I will have to spell it out even slower, yes you trade Aramis, Lee, Zambrano, you think they have zero value? Are you mental?

Good lord, I didn't say they didn't have any value. Lee's contract is up at the end of the year, and Zambrano has an albatross of a contract. He's getting paid like a Cy Young and he hasn't pitched like a Cy Young for about 5 years. Unless they plan on paying a significant portion of that contract, they're not getting anything great.

soxinem1
12-18-2009, 08:34 PM
FWIW, Harden is gone, Lilly is hurt, the cubs can kinda USE Silva.

For what, batting practice??

thomas35forever
12-18-2009, 08:59 PM
I'm not surprised that this thread has more posts than the "Sox Acquire JJ Putz" thread, which is over a week old now.
It wouldn't be that way without the argument going on right now.

doublem23
12-18-2009, 09:17 PM
As of now, yes.

But if Silva can give the Cubs anything remotely serviceable as a #5 starter, I give the edge to Hendry.

The whole Swisher thing was an epic disaster for our club, plain and simple. Not that those prospects we gave up have amounted to anything great, but no one knew that at the time and they could have been chips KW could have used for other deals in the summer of 2008.

Wait, I need to address this post. So earlier in this thread, you blast off on people who are being "two-faced," but you're willing to cut Hendry some slack on this trade, based on Silva's performance, but are then unwilling to cut KW some slack for trading away a boatload of prospects who have amounted to absolutely nothing since the Swisher trade?

And then Swisher was "an epic disaster?" The Sox made the play-offs in Swisher's one and only season here, and again for the umpteenth million time, the only reason Swisher was moved after the 2008 season is because TCQ played him out of a position. Now, if you want to talk "epic disaster," perhaps we need to investigate Milton Bradley's tenure with the Cubs, who regressed 14 wins and lost almost a full RPG from 2008 to 2009 (falling from #1 in the NL to #9). I'm obviously not blaming all of the Cubs' offensive woes on Bradley, but if the 2008 White Sox were a disaster, you'd need a new word to describe the 2009 Cubs.

doublem23
12-18-2009, 09:18 PM
FWIW, Harden is gone, Lilly is hurt, the cubs can kinda USE Silva.

The other 29 teams could use Silva, too... for BP. Oh, snap!

doublem23
12-18-2009, 09:28 PM
Carlos Silva has nothing to do with the whole equation.

Milton Bradley was GOING TO BE FLAT OUT RELEASED!

There was ZERO trade market for him, or a market that would at least allow the Cubs to acheive a minimal financial benefit.

Ken Rosenthal at Fox Sports says he wasn't: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/121409-Latest-MLB-buzz

Tragg
12-18-2009, 10:12 PM
and again for the umpteenth million time, the only reason Swisher was moved after the 2008 season is because TCQ played him out of a position.

That's not why he was moved.
It had nothing to do with Quentin.
Heck, we got him to play CF not LF; and even in NY he played RF not LF.
His lowball 2008 numbers were far superior to anything DeWayne Wise could dream of (including Wise's 2008 performance), so he clearly could have helped in 2009.
Swisher was better than any of our bench outfielders as well, and can play a back-up 1B.

It wasn't an epic failure no; but he involved 2 bad trades, especially the 2nd when he was needlessly and hastily traded for utility level talent, at best.

doublem23
12-18-2009, 10:15 PM
That's not why he was moved.
It had nothing to do with Quentin.
Heck, we got him to play CF not LF; and even in NY he played RF not LF.
His lowball 2008 numbers were far superior to anything DeWayne Wise could dream of over a full season, so he clearly could have helped in 2009.
Swisher was better than any of our bench outfielders as well, and can play a back-up 1B.

It wasn't an epic failure no; but he involved 2 bad trades, especially the 2nd when he was needlessly and hastily traded for utility level talent, at best.

You don't pay a guy $5 million to sit on your bench.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 11:12 PM
Wait, I need to address this post. So earlier in this thread, you blast off on people who are being "two-faced," but you're willing to cut Hendry some slack on this trade, based on Silva's performance, but are then unwilling to cut KW some slack for trading away a boatload of prospects who have amounted to absolutely nothing since the Swisher trade?

And then Swisher was "an epic disaster?" The Sox made the play-offs in Swisher's one and only season here, and again for the umpteenth million time, the only reason Swisher was moved after the 2008 season is because TCQ played him out of a position. Now, if you want to talk "epic disaster," perhaps we need to investigate Milton Bradley's tenure with the Cubs, who regressed 14 wins and lost almost a full RPG from 2008 to 2009 (falling from #1 in the NL to #9). I'm obviously not blaming all of the Cubs' offensive woes on Bradley, but if the 2008 White Sox were a disaster, you'd need a new word to describe the 2009 Cubs.



What the hell are you talking about :scratch:

The two Swisher deals are a thing of the past already, and crap was the result. And just because Swisher was a witness on the bench to a 2008 medicore division title doesn't mean that he should be praised for being there.

Hendry's fiasco is only half way done and it's been crap too. If Silva amounts to anything serviceable as a #5 starter and helps the Cubs get somewhere this season then I believe Hendry should get the same credit as KW instead of 10 pages of bashing he has received so far.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 11:19 PM
Ken Rosenthal at Fox Sports says he wasn't: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/121409-Latest-MLB-buzz


Ken Rosenthal should stick to his coverage of the East Coast because he knows nothing.


How in the world was Bradley ever going to play for the Cubs again after what went down?


That's plain dumb by Ken.

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 11:21 PM
Ken Rosenthal should stick to his coverage of the East Coast because he knows nothing.


How in the world was Bradley ever going to play for the Cubs again after what went down?


That's plain dumb by Ken.
Again, tell me what went down. The Cubs could have spared him easily, but Hendry single-handedly wrecked the man's trade value. Suicide.

voodoochile
12-18-2009, 11:30 PM
Again, tell me what went down. The Cubs could have spared him easily, but Hendry single-handedly wrecked the man's trade value. Suicide.

I won't speak to the in house stuff, because I am not privy to the information.

However, there were plenty of public blowups and gaffs last year by Bradley. He even took some shots at the fans in the newspapers.

Whether he could have played with his teammates, it's highly doubtful the fans would have looked favorably on Bradley returning to the team next year.

Now we can argue about whether trading away a player because of fan loathing is appropriate or not, but if you're the GM of the club and looking at the potential for the season starting off with booing and negative fan reaction and how that might in turn cause Bradley to lash out again and become an even bigger distraction and start the whole season off on a wrong foot, you might say, "it's time to dump Bradley for whatever I can get."

No, I don't have links to those public incidents, but they were widely publicized, I am sure you can Google them in a heartbeat. Ignoring that impact on the team is probably a bad idea especially since it was already a distraction once...

doublem23
12-18-2009, 11:35 PM
What the hell are you talking about :scratch:

The two Swisher deals are a thing of the past already, and crap was the result. And just because Swisher was a witness on the bench to a 2008 medicore division title doesn't mean that he should be praised for being there.

Only Cabrera, Dye, and Thome had more PA's for the 2008 Sox than Swisher.

Hendry's fiasco is only half way done and it's been crap too. If Silva amounts to anything serviceable as a #5 starter and helps the Cubs get somewhere this season then I believe Hendry should get the same credit as KW instead of 10 pages of bashing he has received so far.

That's the double standard, though, people still bring up the Swisher deal and rail on KW but all they ever talk about are "the prospects" we gave up, but the guys we dealt have all proven to be absolutely worthless. People complain like we gave up this gold mine of talent when in fact Sweeney, Gio, and DLS are all crap baseball players. In the same light, I can tell you right now that Carlos Silva is one of the worst players in the MLB and that's all the Cubs could get in return for their $30 million man. If you're going to trash one GM for his deal without ever pointing out how crappy the prospects he dealt turned out to be, then you're not allowed to give Hendry the benefit of the doubt and see what happens with Silva (especially what if Bradley finds his stroke in Seattle).

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 11:43 PM
Only Cabrera, Dye, and Thome had more PA's for the 2008 Sox than Swisher.



That's the double standard, though, people still bring up the Swisher deal and rail on KW but all they ever talk about are "the prospects" we gave up, but the guys we dealt have all proven to be absolutely worthless. People complain like we gave up this gold mine of talent when in fact Sweeney, Gio, and DLS are all crap baseball players. In the same light, I can tell you right now that Carlos Silva is one of the worst players in the MLB and that's all the Cubs could get in return for their $30 million man. If you're going to trash one GM for his deal without ever pointing out how crappy the prospects he dealt turned out to be, then you're not allowed to give Hendry the benefit of the doubt and see what happens with Silva (especially what if Bradley finds his stroke in Seattle).


Actually you are wrong on that.

Just the other day someone opened up a new thread about "Kenny knows what he's doing" or something like that praising Kenny for giving up junk prospects in all his trades.

A good amount of folks have indeed let up on Kenny for the Swisher deals because they have seen that the 3 guys given up have amounted to nothing.

LoveYourSuit
12-18-2009, 11:47 PM
Again, tell me what went down. The Cubs could have spared him easily, but Hendry single-handedly wrecked the man's trade value. Suicide.


Hendry?

Don't stop there. Lou, the players, the fans, the media. They all turned on him one right after the other. They made a mess out of the situation.

So how was he suppose to come back to team? (As some claim).

or

How was Hendry suppose get a King's Ransom instead of a scrub like Silva (as some are suggesting).


They all made a mess out of the situation and Hendry still was able get some $$$ in return for him.

slavko
12-19-2009, 12:02 AM
Hendry?

Don't stop there. Lou, the players, the fans, the media. They all turned on him one right after the other. They made a mess out of the situation.

So how was he suppose to come back to team? (As some claim).



Hard, but not impossible. You need to change the guy's image in the eyes of the fans. A friendly sportswriter or two to plant some stories sympathetic to the guy. Should be easy to buy those, journalistic integrity being what it is. Maybe a whole newspaper! A tragedy in the guys family, past or present, to put a tear in people's eyes. Visit a sick kid in the hospital but be sure to bring a photographer along.

Have the player report to Spring Training with a big smile on his face and keep it plastered there. Didn't a thief once say that when you're stealing a car, smile, and no one will think you're stealing a car? Be polite to reporters and remember you're dealing with the most gullible fans in the world. Should work 8 out of 10 times.

chunk
12-19-2009, 12:10 AM
Only Cabrera, Dye, and Thome had more PA's for the 2008 Sox than Swisher.



That's the double standard, though, people still bring up the Swisher deal and rail on KW but all they ever talk about are "the prospects" we gave up, but the guys we dealt have all proven to be absolutely worthless. People complain like we gave up this gold mine of talent when in fact Sweeney, Gio, and DLS are all crap baseball players. In the same light, I can tell you right now that Carlos Silva is one of the worst players in the MLB and that's all the Cubs could get in return for their $30 million man. If you're going to trash one GM for his deal without ever pointing out how crappy the prospects he dealt turned out to be, then you're not allowed to give Hendry the benefit of the doubt and see what happens with Silva (especially what if Bradley finds his stroke in Seattle).


It would really be nice to have Sweeney back right now. Great defense and an average bat, plus he's still young.


And the Cubs would be better off just releasing Silva. he's awful.

LoveYourSuit
12-19-2009, 12:15 AM
Hard, but not impossible. You need to change the guy's image in the eyes of the fans. A friendly sportswriter or two to plant some stories sympathetic to the guy. Should be easy to buy those, journalistic integrity being what it is. Maybe a whole newspaper! A tragedy in the guys family, past or present, to put a tear in people's eyes. Visit a sick kid in the hospital but be sure to bring a photographer along.

Have the player report to Spring Training with a big smile on his face and keep it plastered there. Didn't a thief once say that when you're stealing a car, smile, and no one will think you're stealing a car? Be polite to reporters and remember you're dealing with the most gullible fans in the world. Should work 8 out of 10 times.


You can't be serious, are you?


And if this staged nonesense works just to get Bradley back into the clubhouse door, what do you do about Bradley's short fuse? You know he will blow up at some point. Or how about the 40,000 idiots who will rip the guy the minute he Ks 3 times in one game?


This bridge was badly burned by both sides. I don't understand how many of you guys here and Ken Rosenthal just can't figure this out.

doublem23
12-19-2009, 12:15 AM
And the Cubs would be better off just releasing Silva. he's awful.

I agree, they should be relieved they saved $5 million over Bradley and cut their losses.

chunk
12-19-2009, 12:19 AM
You can't be serious, are you?


And if this staged nonesense works just to get Bradley back into the clubhouse door, what do you do about Bradley's short fuse? You know he will blow up at some point. Or how about the 40,000 idiots who will rip the guy the minute he Ks 3 times in one game?


This bridge was badly burned by both sides. I don't understand how many of you guys here and Ken Rosenthal just can't figure this out.

The well was poisoned from the get go. All of the articles about him when he signed was about how crazy he is. Maybe the Cubs could have used their own newspaper to move the rhetoric in a more positive direction. Maybe Hendry could have stood up for him, or said it was a behind closed doors issue and not be so public about.

LoveYourSuit
12-19-2009, 12:20 AM
It would really be nice to have Sweeney back right now. Great defense and an average bat, plus he's still young.


And the Cubs would be better off just releasing Silva. he's awful.


You know that when Loaiza showed up as a non roster invite in 2003 I laughed at the idea and gave the guy ZERO chance to make the roster?


I see no reason why the Cubs should not kick those tires (and Silva has a big one) just for the hell of it. You are paying the guy, might as well give it a shot.

chunk
12-19-2009, 12:27 AM
You know that when Loaiza showed up as a non roster invite in 2003 I laughed at the idea and gave the guy ZERO chance to make the roster?


I see no reason why the Cubs should not kick those tires (and Silva has a big one) just for the hell of it. You are paying the guy, might as well give it a shot.

Of course they're going to give him a shot to try to save face, but remember, Silva had the best defense behind him last year. The Cubs are a major step down.

gr8mexico
12-19-2009, 12:44 AM
What a huge mistake by the Cubs.They are going to have the worst 5th starter in the league. Plus they still need an OF and a 2B and I'm sure they will have to over pay to get that OF now that most are gone. Ill bet they will over pay to get either Scott Podsednik or Johnny Damon.

jabrch
12-19-2009, 12:55 AM
It would really be nice to have Sweeney back right now. Great defense and an average bat, plus he's still young.

A corner OF with no power who doesn't lead off? Not sure how nice it would be to have him. He's got 4th OF written all over him. He's not terrible - he's just not so great that I miss him.

veeter
12-19-2009, 10:15 AM
As much of a mess as the cubs remain, I'm still pissed Seattle let Hendry off the hook, to an extent. They could have waited until the last second to do this deal. The longer they would've waited, the less money they would have had to give back. I'm still shocked they gave any. Right now the cubs win 80 games at best.

Brian26
12-19-2009, 10:20 AM
As much of a mess as the cubs remain, I'm still pissed Seattle let Hendry off the hook, to an extent. They could have waited until the last second to do this deal. The longer they would've waited, the less money they would have had to give back. I'm still shocked they gave any. Right now the cubs win 80 games at best.

I was suprised they gave up so much money. I heard this morning the figure is $9 million.

cards press box
12-19-2009, 10:35 AM
What a huge mistake by the Cubs.They are going to have the worst 5th starter in the league. Plus they still need an OF and a 2B and I'm sure they will have to over pay to get that OF now that most are gone. Ill bet they will over pay to get either Scott Podsednik or Johnny Damon.

With the Yankees apparently closing the door on re-signing Damon, I've been thinking of what teams might overpay him. To paraphrase Casablanca, Jim Hendry and the Cubs certainly would be one of the usual suspects to do just that. Watching how the Bradley trade, however, makes me think that the new owners have placed financial restraints on Hendry. Hendry, it seems, could not deal Bradley and agree to pay any of Bradley's remaining salary. In the last two years with Seattle, Silva has gone 5-18 with a 6.81 ERA. 5-18! And, yet, that was the best the Cubs could do if they weren't going to eat any of Bradley's salary.

Given how cost conscious the Cubs have become, even if the market for Damon drops, I don't think the Cubs will make a pitch for him. In any event, Damon is not a good defensive fit for the Cubs. Any outfield with Soriano in LF and Damon in CF would be bad. Damon's best position is DH or LF. Of course, the same is probably true for Pods, too.

Here are some predictions: (i) the Cubs sign Marlon Byrd to play CF and (ii) the Giants sign Pods to play LF and lead off. I don't know where Damon signs but his best fit might be as the White Sox DH and occasional LF (on days when Pierre plays CF and either Rios or Quentin DH). If the Yankees and Red Sox are not in the bidding on Damon, then his market might be reduced to the White Sox, Oakland, Detroit and K.C. Of that group, the Sox have the best team and might make Damon the best offer. It will be interesting to see how this plays out this January.

voodoochile
12-19-2009, 10:42 AM
With the Yankees apparently closing the door on re-signing Damon, I've been thinking of what teams might overpay him. To paraphrase Casablanca, Jim Hendry and the Cubs certainly would be one of the usual suspects to do just that. Watching how the Bradley trade, however, makes me think that the new owners have placed financial restraints on Hendry. Hendry, it seems, could not deal Bradley and agree to pay any of Bradley's remaining salary. In the last two years with Seattle, Silva has gone 5-18 with a 6.81 ERA. 5-18! And, yet, that was the best the Cubs could do if they weren't going to eat any of Bradley's salary.

Given how cost conscious the Cubs have become, even if the market for Damon drops, I don't think the Cubs will make a pitch for him. In any event, Damon is not a good defensive fit for the Cubs. Any outfield with Soriano in LF and Damon in CF would be bad. Damon's best position is DH or LF. Of course, the same is probably true for Pods, too.

Here are some predictions: (i) the Cubs sign Marlon Byrd to play CF and (ii) the Giants sign Pods to play LF and lead off. I don't know where Damon signs but his best fit might be as the White Sox DH and occasional LF (on days when Pierre plays CF and either Rios or Quentin DH). If the Yankees and Red Sox are not in the bidding on Damon, then his market might be reduced to the White Sox, Oakland, Detroit and K.C. Of that group, the Sox have the best team and might make Damon the best offer. It will be interesting to see how this plays out this January.

Pierre
Damon
Beckham
Quentin
PK
Teahen
Ramirez
AJ
Rios

I could live with that...

doublem23
12-19-2009, 10:46 AM
I was suprised they gave up so much money. I heard this morning the figure is $9 million.

I think that speaks to how much (A) Seattle wanted to get rid of Carlos Silva and (B) how much they think the change of scenery will help Milton. A year before 2009's meltdown with the Cubs, he was one of the best hitters in the American League; if he can come back even a bit, they pretty much robbed the Cubs.

Frater Perdurabo
12-19-2009, 10:48 AM
Pierre
Damon
Beckham
Quentin
PK
Teahen
Ramirez
AJ
Rios


Quentin, Pierre and Damon all rotate at the DH spot?

cards press box
12-19-2009, 10:48 AM
Pierre
Damon
Beckham
Quentin
PK
Teahen
Ramirez
AJ
Rios

I could live with that...

Yeah, that's a strong and balanced lineup. For one thing, that lineup would give the Sox five righty hitters and four lefties. But the balance goes deeper than that: that lineup has speed, power and would get on base. The more I think about it, the more I hope that the Sox become the logical destination for Damon.

voodoochile
12-19-2009, 10:58 AM
Quentin, Pierre and Damon all rotate at the DH spot?

Yeah I think so. I don't think it's going to happen anyway. I think KW is pretty much done spending and I'd still prefer a bigger bat than Damon as the DH, but I suspect we are hoping to catch lightning in a bottle with Jones for the most part.

DrCrawdad
12-19-2009, 01:37 PM
I think that speaks to how much (A) Seattle wanted to get rid of Carlos Silva and (B) how much they think the change of scenery will help Milton. A year before 2009's meltdown with the Cubs, he was one of the best hitters in the American League; if he can come back even a bit, they pretty much robbed the Cubs.

When the Cubbies signed Bradley I sent this to a Cubbie fan:

Bradley is now on his 7th team in his 10th season and just finishing what might amount to a “career year.”

Bradley is a very good offensive player, but coming off a (potential) “career year” where he batted behind Josh Hamilton in a very park that is very “hitter friendly.” Bear in mind too that last year, Bradley played 97 games at DH, 19 in RF and 1 in LF. Bradley turns 31 this April and had major knee surgery after the 2007 season.

This signing has red flags all over the place and could very well backfire for the Cubs. And that outfield defense could simply be terrible.


His response?
Hamilton got to bat in front of Bradley. What is this “batted behind” stuff about? ... In fact, Hamilton had his incredible year in part due to having Bradley batting behind him.

oeo
12-19-2009, 02:00 PM
When the Cubbies signed Bradley I sent this to a Cubbie fan:


His response?

Well, he was right (at least with the first part). How does batting behind someone increase their offensive output? If Hamilton was batting behind Bradley you would have a point, as Hamilton would be protecting him.

DrCrawdad
12-19-2009, 02:57 PM
Well, he was right (at least with the first part). How does batting behind someone increase their offensive output? If Hamilton was batting behind Bradley you would have a point, as Hamilton would be protecting him.

http://s345.photobucket.com/albums/p384/stormyman_2008/fp_graphics/c/whatever/whatever-5.jpg

:)

I like this comment of mine bestest...

This signing has red flags all over the place and could very well backfire for the Cubs. And that outfield defense could simply be terrible. - January 2009, DrCrawdad

ChiTownTrojan
12-19-2009, 04:32 PM
I agree, they should be relieved they saved $5 million over Bradley and cut their losses.

No reason not to at least invite Silva to camp and see if he's healed up over the past 9 months or so and has regained some effectiveness. if he proves that he's still the same guy as 2008, cut him then.

slavko
12-20-2009, 11:10 AM
Just thinking here....2005 was the year Silva's Twins teammate Juan Rincon was busted for steroids and his stats have been dismal ever since. Likewise Silva's stats have been on the decline since 2005. Ya don't think........

chunk
12-20-2009, 02:53 PM
Has it been mentioned that Silva also has a reputation for being an SOB? So even from a clubhouse standpoint it's not much of a change.

Even still, Bradley's numbers indicate that he's a huge bounceback candidate. He still managed a .378 OBP, despite apparently being the cause of the Cubs' failure. The Ms have made such shrewd moves this offseason. What a turn around from the Bavasi years.

DrCrawdad
12-20-2009, 03:30 PM
Has it been mentioned that Silva also has a reputation for being an SOB? So even from a clubhouse standpoint it's not much of a change.

Even still, Bradley's numbers indicate that he's a huge bounceback candidate. He still managed a .378 OBP, despite apparently being the cause of the Cubs' failure. The M's have made such shrewd moves this offseason. What a turn around from the Bavasi years.


You've got it all wrong. The mouthpiece for the Cubbies, Ryan Dumpster, says that Silva is "really good guy." Contrary to what you've said Dumpster says that a lot of guys speak highly of Silva & Dumpster went to say the trade is great for the Cubbies.

Damn you Sox fans! You must speak reverentially about The Great Chicago Cubbies, winners of the 2009 NL Central.

Smokey Burg
12-21-2009, 01:05 PM
When the cubs picked him up he was supposed to be the LH slugger and a good (not just serviceable OF) that would put them into the playoffs. According to Lou, one of the big problem for the cubs in the 2007 and 08 playoffs was no LH slugger. Never mind reality. When MB proved that he wasn't capable in the field or at the plate, he sulked and turned into a cancer. No way he was coming back for 2010. Hendry really got snookered into making the deal for him. I don't know if Hendry just had the wool pulled over his eyes or maybe he really is an idiot. But even then so what?

This is the cubs. They could basically grab 10 -15 guys playing beer-ball in Lincoln Park, put them in cubbie blue and they will still sell out every Friday, Saturday, Sunday and night game. No matter how crappy that team is fans (lemmings, sheep-ple, tourists, Iowans) will still pack that park and gleefully empty their wallets to corporate cubdom. This has been going on since the mid 80's and if I have spotted this trend then I am pretty sure that cubs management has also. They may not be able to pick out decent ball players, or even turn average players into good players, but they sure know how to sell baseball in the good ol' sunshine at historic and venerable Wrigley Field.

NLaloosh
12-22-2009, 04:31 AM
Yeah, that's a strong and balanced lineup. For one thing, that lineup would give the Sox five righty hitters and four lefties. But the balance goes deeper than that: that lineup has speed, power and would get on base. The more I think about it, the more I hope that the Sox become the logical destination for Damon.

Has anyone heard of Scott Boras?

I still don't get all of these suggestions for the Sox to go after Boras clients - especially expensive ones. I don't get it? Boras prices these guys too high for the big spenders but you think the Sox will overpay for these guys? Where have you people been the last 10 years?

And don't bring up Andruw Jones. None of these other guys are trying to come back from the dead and will sign for 1/2 a mil.

The Sox will sign Johnny Damon right after I become a flubs fan.

cards press box
12-22-2009, 09:13 AM
Has anyone heard of Scott Boras?

I still don't get all of these suggestions for the Sox to go after Boras clients - especially expensive ones. I don't get it? Boras prices these guys too high for the big spenders but you think the Sox will overpay for these guys? Where have you people been the last 10 years?

No, I don't think that the Sox will overpay for Johnny Damon. I just asked what happens to the Damon market if the Yankees and Red Sox drop out, as appears likely. At this point, I don't think that any team will overpay for Damon. That doesn't mean that he'll end up with the Sox. But does anyone expect Damon to retire if his agent can't get someone to pay him what the Yankees did several years ago.

soxinem1
12-23-2009, 01:56 PM
No, I don't think that the Sox will overpay for Johnny Damon. I just asked what happens to the Damon market if the Yankees and Red Sox drop out, as appears likely. At this point, I don't think that any team will overpay for Damon. That doesn't mean that he'll end up with the Sox. But does anyone expect Damon to retire if his agent can't get someone to pay him what the Yankees did several years ago.

The $13 million is a pipedream, but if he takes a one or two year deal for up to $8 million per, he'll have plenty of suitors, us included.

doublem23
12-23-2009, 11:05 PM
The $13 million is a pipedream, but if he takes a one or two year deal for up to $8 million per, he'll have plenty of suitors, us included.

I hope so. I'm not sold on Damon, but I'm absolutely opposed to any DH platoon that includes Omar Vizquel, Andruw Jones, and Mark Kotsay.

Zisk77
12-24-2009, 12:34 AM
I hope so. I'm not sold on Damon, but I'm absolutely opposed to any DH platoon that includes Omar Vizquel, Andruw Jones, and Mark Kotsay.

Makes more sense to have a RF platoon with Kotsay/Jones and make TCQ a DH.

whitem0nkey
12-24-2009, 09:02 AM
Milton Bradley takes out full page ad in Chicago Tribune inviting Cubs fans to go **** themselves.


http://www.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/Bradley_letter_master.jpg

doublem23
12-24-2009, 09:04 AM
Makes more sense to have a RF platoon with Kotsay/Jones and make TCQ a DH.

It really doesn't matter where you put them, if a Kotsay/Jones tandem is in the everyday lineup somehow then let's just start talking about 2011.

ChiSoxGirl
12-24-2009, 10:49 AM
Milton Bradley takes out full page ad in Chicago Tribune inviting Cubs fans to go **** themselves.


http://www.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/Bradley_letter_master.jpg

:o: Where'd you find that?

spawn
12-24-2009, 11:07 AM
:o: Where'd you find that?
http://www.tauntr.com/content/bradley-takes-out-full-page-ad-telling-cubs-fans-rot-hell

It's purely satire. No way the Trib would run that ad.

soxinem1
12-24-2009, 11:48 AM
Milton Bradley takes out full page ad in Chicago Tribune inviting Cubs fans to go **** themselves.


http://www.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/Bradley_letter_master.jpg

Spoken like a true 'winner'. Even if it is satire, I could see him writing this.

He'll probably send the same letter to SEA fans on September 30, 2010.

He could adapt this into a song, by his own band called 'Bad Boy Milton and the It's All About Me Singers'.