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balke
12-16-2009, 11:00 AM
Here are some numbers Pierre Rios and Jones have put up in their best years.

Pierre - 221 hits .326 avg. 45 BB 35 K 45 SB
Rios - 24 HR 43 doubles .297 avg. 17 SB
Jones - 51 HR 24 doubles .263 avg. 128 RBI


I just think its interesting. When guys are as young as they are, its not unheard of to see some big rebound years.

russ99
12-16-2009, 11:10 AM
While I don't think we can expect career years from any of these guys, getting simply average years will go a long way for the Sox.

My only concern is that Paul and Carlos really need to step up their power output, and the possibility of either doing so is questionable.

Maybe the 2010 Sox will hit only 120 HRs., but they could potentially hit 200+ doubles.

34 Inch Stick
12-16-2009, 11:14 AM
the lovers, the dreamers and me

Danielgosox38
12-16-2009, 11:17 AM
the lovers, the dreamers and me

Someday we'll find it.. The Rainbow connection.

pythons007
12-16-2009, 11:27 AM
I think with the addtions this year adds to runs that weren't scored in previous years. For instance you don't have PK, Dye, and Thome back to back to back anymore. No more station to station running. We've added 2 guys that can score from second on a single to leftfield. We have added Pierre a guy that has almost 500 stolen bases in his career who can also hit for a triple, a triple!. I think the last player we had on our team that could do that was Ray Durham!

As of right now we are definately down on HR potential, but I think Kenny could go out and get someone. I probably am on my own when I say this, but I believe Andruw Jones could have a bounce back year. The guy is only 32, which by no means is old. It's a given his last couple years have been subpar, but the guy isn't and hasn't been an average hitter or big OBP guy. He should fit well in at the cell. Last year in limited playing time hit 17 homers and throw out his 2008 year (his '08 was like PK's '03 year). His last year with the Braves was still very productive with 24 homers and 94 RBI.

I really think Rios is going to play to his norms next year. I say .270 and a potential 20/20 guy.

Also, our defense has improved leaps and bounds compared to last year. That alone should improve the overall record. Rios and Pierre should be able to catch anything in the air and drastically cutting down extrabase hits. Vizquel tutoring the middle infielders, should greatly help out Ramirez!

Right now I say this team resembles the team in 2005. Before the season started then, I believe a lot of peopled questioned all the moves made by Kenny. Trading away CLee for Podsednik and Vizcanio (sp?). I think everyone said that A.J. would be a clubhouse cancer.

I don't know if I'm being overly optimistic or what, but I really have a good feeling about the way this team is shaping up.

Let the ripping comense!

Madvora
12-16-2009, 11:34 AM
We have added Pierre a guy that has almost 500 stolen bases in his career who can also hit for a triple, a triple!. I think the last player we had on our team that could do that was Ray Durham!

What about Pods or Alexei?

hawkjt
12-16-2009, 11:37 AM
I ,too, am feeling ok with the team as it is shaping up.
I wish the Sox had taken a serious run at Matsui(last year the Angels signed Abreu for one year at 5 million, this year they get matsui for one year at 6.5 million...must be the climate,eh?), but still hopeful we might add one more power bat for DH and are good to go.

We have all seen the reclamation projects succeed(Burks,Loaiza) and fail(colon) but I think Jones has a chance to help out. If he comes thru,they might have just enough firepower to get by with excellent starting pitching....

pythons007
12-16-2009, 11:53 AM
What about Pods or Alexei?

Pierre does it consistantly, well as consistanly as possible for a triple. He's had double digit triples in numerous years. Alexei has 3 in his brief career. I'm not discrediting Pods or Alexei but Pierre has a track record to show for a high number.

NLaloosh
12-16-2009, 11:57 AM
Here are some numbers Pierre Rios and Jones have put up in their best years.

Pierre - 221 hits .326 avg. 45 BB 35 K 45 SB
Rios - 24 HR 43 doubles .297 avg. 17 SB
Jones - 51 HR 24 doubles .263 avg. 128 RBI


I just think its interesting. When guys are as young as they are, its not unheard of to see some big rebound years.

I believe that Rios could have the same season this year.

I believe that Pierre could come close. He could hit .300 and steal 50.

I believe that Jones will never come close to that but I still think that he could hit pretty well and provide good defense anywhere in the OF. I think as things stand right now that he could get about 350 at bats and hit over 20 dingers with a decent OBP. I think that too many people are underestimating him and will be surprised.

soxinem1
12-16-2009, 12:23 PM
As of right now we are definately down on HR potential, but I think Kenny could go out and get someone. I probably am on my own when I say this, but I believe Andruw Jones could have a bounce back year. The guy is only 32, which by no means is old.

You are definitely not alone in that belief. I believe you are right, as do many of the experts on MLB Network.

One thing I do believe is that Jones will be here for one year max. If he sucks, he's gone.

If the 2010 White Sox suck and he plays well, he's gone via trade.

If the team does well and Jones does not, he's gone.

If the team does well and Jones does well, his value will jump and we will not be able to re-sign him.

Waysouthsider
12-16-2009, 02:12 PM
My prediction:

There will be a definite positive correlation between the size of Jones' waistline and his suck potential......weight loss = higher BA x better defense x more power!!!!

He slims down and gets in his previous shape and we'll be living large....as the younger folks say....

Pear-Zin-Ski
12-16-2009, 03:14 PM
While I don't think we can expect career years from any of these guys, getting simply average years will go a long way for the Sox.

My only concern is that Paul and Carlos really need to step up their power output, and the possibility of either doing so is questionable.

Maybe the 2010 Sox will hit only 120 HRs., but they could potentially hit 200+ doubles.

If they do that with men on base I'll be overjoyed.

Pear-Zin-Ski
12-16-2009, 03:15 PM
Facepalm.

I can't find that key on my keyboard - am I doing something wrong?

shes
12-16-2009, 04:11 PM
The only way Jones has any kind of decent year is if he works out like a madman and gets into the best shape of his life entering the season. I don't know if he cares enough to do that.

Pierre and Rios will probably be solid. Then again, they could continue trending downward and things may get awfully nasty on WSI...

october23sp
12-16-2009, 04:14 PM
I have a feeling all of these guys will have alright years, especially Pierre and Rios. Which means the Sox will have a great year.

Crestani
12-16-2009, 04:52 PM
Here are some numbers Pierre Rios and Jones have put up in their best years.

Pierre - 221 hits .326 avg. 45 BB 35 K 45 SB
Rios - 24 HR 43 doubles .297 avg. 17 SB
Jones - 51 HR 24 doubles .263 avg. 128 RBI


I just think its interesting. When guys are as young as they are, its not unheard of to see some big rebound years.

Pierre Maybe .290 to .300 and 40 SB
Rios should be able to duplicate those numbers in the Cell.
Jones..UM..Not unless they quit testing for PEDS!

Craig Grebeck
12-16-2009, 04:54 PM
Pierre Maybe .290 to .300 and 40 SB
Rios should be able to duplicate those numbers in the Cell.
Jones..UM..Not unless they quit testing for PEDS!
Sometimes guys just fall off a cliff. I wouldn't put it on PEDs -- that's quite the stigma.

BadBobbyJenks
12-16-2009, 07:47 PM
The guy's major league career started at what 19 at the Majors? He could just be finished.

bacon
12-16-2009, 08:32 PM
Sometimes guys just fall off a cliff. I wouldn't put it on PEDs -- that's quite the stigma.

Must have been some cliff....

Redus Redux
12-16-2009, 08:36 PM
Sometimes guys just fall off a cliff. I wouldn't put it on PEDs -- that's quite the stigma.

That is just absolutely adorable!




I will say that it's cool that a few monster years from guys who have done it before.......and we'd be near-Yankees level. You cant say that about '09..the possibility for that wasnt even there 1 iota.

Corlose 15
12-16-2009, 08:49 PM
Must have been some cliff....


When were those taken, when he was 19? You're body goes through a lot of changes from just 19-24. That's not the most compelling argument I've seen for PED use.

Rdy2PlayBall
12-16-2009, 09:19 PM
The Rios stats can happen very easily. His career year isn't much different than his usual years.

Pierre could also easily bat .300 and have 35+ SBs.

Those two guys aren't really dreams, but what we should be somewhat expecting....Jones is a dream though.... :tongue:

bacon
12-16-2009, 09:37 PM
When were those taken, when he was 19? You're body goes through a lot of changes from just 19-24. That's not the most compelling argument I've seen for PED use.

i didn't know there was an argument. he went from a soaking wet 165 to a fat 240. yeah, your probably right...i'm sure that happened from eating cheeseburgers and sitting on the couch. personally i could care less as long as he plays somewhat decent.

PennStater98r
12-17-2009, 10:28 AM
One other thing to consider is that no one is mentioning the potential of Teahen. If the guy lives up to his potential, we could have a 20 HR guy flirting with .300 - that would be a huge boost as well.

BadBobbyJenks
12-17-2009, 04:20 PM
i didn't know there was an argument. he went from a soaking wet 165 to a fat 240. yeah, your probably right...i'm sure that happened from eating cheeseburgers and sitting on the couch. personally i could care less as long as he plays somewhat decent.

So how much do you care about it?

Craig Grebeck
12-18-2009, 05:36 AM
That is just absolutely adorable!

What?
So how much do you care about it?
Enough to speculate about it, apparently. Are big people always big or something?

parlaycard
12-18-2009, 06:56 AM
Jones - 51 HR 24 doubles .263 avg. 128 RBI




I dont think Jones will make the opening day roster.

If he was going to have a bounce back year, it would have been last year.

He knew he was going to be a free agent this season and he was still way out of shape.

He isnt very motivated.

I dont think just because he is wearing a White Sox uniform, all of a sudden hes going to see the light.

A. Cavatica
12-18-2009, 07:50 AM
Here are some numbers Pierre Rios and Jones have put up in their best years.

Pierre - 221 hits .326 avg. 45 BB 35 K 45 SB
Rios - 24 HR 43 doubles .297 avg. 17 SB
Jones - 51 HR 24 doubles .263 avg. 128 RBI


I just think its interesting. When guys are as young as they are, its not unheard of to see some big rebound years.

This theory would have us signing the Big Hurt to DH.

balke
12-18-2009, 09:59 AM
Jones - 51 HR 24 doubles .263 avg. 128 RBI




I dont think Jones will make the opening day roster.

If he was going to have a bounce back year, it would have been last year.

He knew he was going to be a free agent this season and he was still way out of shape.

He isnt very motivated.

I dont think just because he is wearing a White Sox uniform, all of a sudden hes going to see the light.

I think if he played everyday he could hit .240-.250 with over 30 Hrs which is really what Thome was doing last year.

KMcMahon817
12-18-2009, 11:23 AM
Jones - 51 HR 24 doubles .263 avg. 128 RBI




I dont think Jones will make the opening day roster.

If he was going to have a bounce back year, it would have been last year.

He knew he was going to be a free agent this season and he was still way out of shape.

He isnt very motivated.

I dont think just because he is wearing a White Sox uniform, all of a sudden hes going to see the light.

He did hit 17 home runs in limited playing time, granted without the batting average. I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibility that he drops 20 bills. With that said, I am not counting on it.

chunk
12-18-2009, 12:16 PM
He did hit 17 home runs in limited playing time, granted without the batting average. I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibility that he drops 20 bills. With that said, I am not counting on it.

Yeah, don't forget he completely fell of a cliff in the second half too. He probably doesn't have much left.

sullythered
12-18-2009, 12:54 PM
That is just absolutely adorable!




I will say that it's cool that a few monster years from guys who have done it before.......and we'd be near-Yankees level. You cant say that about '09..the possibility for that wasnt even there 1 iota.

Really? If Carlos Quentin, Jermaine Dye, Paul Konerko, and Jim Thome all matched their best years in '09, we wouldn't have been absolutely awesome? That's crazy.

bacon
12-18-2009, 02:48 PM
So how much do you care about it?


all im saying is that must have been some cliff.....

BadBobbyJenks
12-19-2009, 11:26 AM
all im saying is that must have been some cliff.....

Actually I was just being a smart ass because the I could care less expression doesn't make sense yet you hear it more often than could not care less.

infohawk
12-19-2009, 12:35 PM
I think that KW definitely upgraded the starting pitching and the defense. I know we keep discussing what this team looks like offensively, but we shouldn't overlook what has been done to enhance the run prevention. Having Rios and Pierre in the outfield (two centerfielders) will keep some balls from dropping in. Adding Teahan at third is a defensive upgrade over Beckham, and sliding Beckham over to second should make him a better defender. We've got Vizquel, still an excellent defender, coming off the bench. Our starting staff is great, and the bullpen could shape up to be fairly dominant. As we know from 2005, this stuff matters!!!