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View Full Version : "DH TERRORS" - Phil Rogers Strikes Again!


Waysouthsider
12-15-2009, 10:33 PM
Ok, who else read this and said, "what a jackass????"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-16-rogers-bud-selig-dec16,0,4802677.column

My understanding is that the commissioner is primarily concerned with taking a look at scheduling....particularly post-season scheduling as the donkey himself observes. Is that the read others are getting?

Further he states that its probably inappropriate to bring up the issue of the DH at this time and then he promptly does it.....could he be any more irritating...???

:angry::angry::angry::angry:

soltrain21
12-15-2009, 10:35 PM
I wish the DH would go away.

Daver
12-15-2009, 11:02 PM
I wish the DH would go away.

Yeah, watching pitchers bat is great.

What's even better is watching them get hurt while batting or running the bases, nothing says keeping it real like losing the ace of your staff because he twisted an ankle tripping over a base.

What could get better than that?

FielderJones
12-15-2009, 11:09 PM
What could get better than that?

You forgot to mention the solemn chess game that is the double switch, which we are deprived of as AL fans.

I guess anyone who wants to witness that style of baseball has an option 8 miles north of the Cell.

soltrain21
12-15-2009, 11:25 PM
You forgot to mention the solemn chess game that is the double switch, which we are deprived of as AL fans.

I guess anyone who wants to witness that style of baseball has an option 8 miles north of the Cell.

Yes, you are right. I should totally become a Cubs fan because I wouldn't mind if the DH went away.

sullythered
12-15-2009, 11:29 PM
I love the DH. I think the NL should adopt it, as well.

Brian26
12-15-2009, 11:35 PM
I love the DH. I think the NL should adopt it, as well.

:thumbsup:

DH isn't going anywhere as long as there's a Player's Union.

hi im skot
12-15-2009, 11:55 PM
I wish the DH would go away.

Crazy talk.

TDog
12-16-2009, 01:17 AM
Yeah, watching pitchers bat is great.

What's even better is watching them get hurt while batting or running the bases, nothing says keeping it real like losing the ace of your staff because he twisted an ankle tripping over a base.

What could get better than that?

Watching some AL DHs hit in 2009 was no great thrill either with their low batting averages and high strikeout rates.

The difference, I suppose, is that they wouldn't hurt the team that much if they got hurt.

Dibbs
12-16-2009, 01:29 AM
I love the DH. I think the NL should adopt it, as well.

I feel the same way.

DSpivack
12-16-2009, 01:40 AM
I actually like having one league with the DH and one league without. :shrug:

central44
12-16-2009, 02:33 AM
If NL fans don't want the DH, fine, I don't care if they never adopt it. But the arguments that the DH isn't "real" baseball annoy the hell out of me. What exactly defines "real" baseball? The fact that it was played that way a long time ago doesn't mean much. That's like saying "real" basketball should be played without a 3 point line and a shot clock. Those two things have made the game infinitely better, and in my mind, the DH makes baseball infinitely better as well. And i'm sure i'm pretty much preaching to the choir, but if the other 8 guys on the field don't have to pitch, why should the pitcher have to hit? Especially considering the injury potential for pitchers who typically don't work on proper hitting mechanics and can be susceptible to injury?

I've heard arguments saying to abolish the DH and just have 8 guys come to bat. Don't get me wrong, that would be awful and I sincerely hope baseball would never consider anything like that-- I'd prefer to keep the DH for symmetry purposes, obviously. Yet I would still find that preferable to NL ball--I'm more anti-pitchers hitting than pro-DH. Its just pointless and its not fun to watch. And I hate situations where you have a runner on second with 2 outs in the second or third inning, and the pitcher up to bat. In the AL, a well-put together team can benefit from that situation because they can bring that run in if they have a solid #9 hitter. In the NL? Nope. Almost a guaranteed out. I don't think that makes the game more exciting. I think it makes the game a headache.

doublem23
12-16-2009, 08:02 AM
I love the DH. I think the NL should adopt it, as well.

I personally prefer the DH as well, but I'd rather the AL lose the DH instead of keeping the status quo.

Waysouthsider
12-16-2009, 08:08 AM
Yeah, watching pitchers bat is great.

What's even better is watching them get hurt while batting or running the bases, nothing says keeping it real like losing the ace of your staff because he twisted an ankle tripping over a base.

What could get better than that?


Absolutely......

RedHeadPaleHoser
12-16-2009, 08:22 AM
I'd bet $ 100 if Zambrano or Lilly had the Peavy injury because of an AB, Phil Rogers would rent out his hairy back as a walking billboard begging Selig to put the DH in for the Cubs. But, only the Cubs.

I'm still on the fence whether I want to teal that or not.

kobo
12-16-2009, 08:26 AM
:thumbsup:

DH isn't going anywhere as long as there's a Player's Union.
Exactly. The Union will never vote to remove the DH, they'd be losing a job if they did that.

tebman
12-16-2009, 08:33 AM
You forgot to mention the solemn chess game that is the double switch, which we are deprived of as AL fans.

I guess anyone who wants to witness that style of baseball has an option 8 miles north of the Cell.

Years ago Jimmy Piersall was doing a call-in show on WMAQ and was asked about the DH. The caller said it should be dropped because it took the "strategy" out of the game.

Piersall paused and said, "Yeah -- either the pitcher bats or he don't. Some strategy."

:redneck

g0g0
12-16-2009, 09:11 AM
I like the history of having 2 separate styles in the NL and AL, but I don't think pitchers are that fragile and bat-challenged that they can't "step up to the plate" for their team. :tongue:

seventyseven
12-16-2009, 09:21 AM
I wish the DH would go away.

Can it take Phil Rogers with it?

GAsoxfan
12-16-2009, 09:35 AM
I like the history of having 2 separate styles in the NL and AL, but I don't think pitchers are that fragile and bat-challenged that they can't "step up to the plate" for their team. :tongue:

I agree. Even as a Sox fan, I prefer the NL set up. Everyone plays the field and everyone bats. I'm not a big fan of part-time players.

I understand the injury risk, but position players injure themselves running the bases and swinging the bat too. Injuries are part of sports.

russ99
12-16-2009, 09:41 AM
I actually like having one league with the DH and one league without. :shrug:

I do too, as it's really the only thing separating the leagues right now. It's also interesting when AL teams need to play interleague without the DH and who the NL teams use at DH when in AL parks...

No need to change now.

whitem0nkey
12-16-2009, 09:43 AM
both leagues need to be on same page, either both have a DH or both dont have one.

I am more in the DH corner, but there are some valid reasons to be against it.

I find it real funny how Sox fans all must defend the DH and cub fans all must do the same about the pitcher batting.

ewokpelts
12-16-2009, 09:45 AM
wow...just wow......


mind you, the dh is going NO-WHERE. why you ask? the union wont allow 14 jobs to be cut. end of story.

VMSNS
12-16-2009, 09:58 AM
It's okay, if the AL get's rid of the DH, then Mark Buehrle will step up and be our most prolific home-run hitter.

In all seriousness, I can see both sides of the argument. I personally prefer the DH, but part of me just wants to see both sides play the game the same way. Either both leagues DH, or both leagues don't.

mrfourni
12-16-2009, 10:03 AM
Someone said this back in 2004 and I think it still applies today, just change the names:

"I'd rather watch Frank Thomas hit than watch Dusty Baker think."

PaleHoser
12-16-2009, 10:11 AM
I think the DH should be dumped just to watch head hunters like Vicente Padilla step up to the plate and take his medicine instead of one of his teammates.

TDog
12-16-2009, 12:13 PM
I think the DH should be dumped just to watch head hunters like Vicente Padilla step up to the plate and take his medicine instead of one of his teammates.

There is some validity in this line of thinking. Some people believe that pitchers need to hit to keep the game honest, that a pitcher is less likely to throw at a hitter if he has to step up to the plate himself. People talk about Bob Gibson, of course, but if he was dishing it out, he could also take it. He had two five-home run seasons and struck out less frequently than a couple of DHs did last year.

Some baseball people also believe there are some pitchers who would pitch better if they were hitting in the lineup, that knowing how difficult it is to hit might enhance some pitchers' appreciation for their stuff.

The DH isn't going anywhere, though.

pythons007
12-16-2009, 12:48 PM
I don't think its very smart. Pitchers are not hitters, sure some are able to hit, but the majority can't. Peavy, was injured for most of the season for tripping over a bag. Colon was out for a good portion a couple season ago when he was on Boston for swinging like a crazy person at a ball that was well out of the strikezone.

In today's game, pitchers are paid a **** ton of money, to pitch every 5th day. So if they get hurt, I want them getting hurt throwing the ball, not tripping over a base, swinging a bat, putting down a bunt, or getting pegged by a pitch (excluding Vincent Padilla, that assclown deserves getting drilled).

Phill Rogers needs to get his head out of his ass. Like someone else wrote, if Zambozo (IIRC pulled a hamstring running out an infield single) or some other pitcher gets hurt would praise to god for the NL to get the DH.

There is noway in hell the players union would ever in a million years get rid of the DH. It just doesn't make sense. Adjustments are made in baseball, there have been different eras: The deadball era, roidmania, the mound being lowered, parks being drastically shortened among others. Ebbitts Field (sp?) the Polo Grounds were like the size of Grant Park. What do all of these changes have in common!?!?! They brought in more offense, they made the game more exciting.

Chicks love the longball, and pitchers give them up they don't hit them!

doublem23
12-16-2009, 12:53 PM
I don't think its very smart. Pitchers are not hitters, sure some are able to hit, but the majority can't. Peavy, was injured for most of the season for tripping over a bag. Colon was out for a good portion a couple season ago when he was on Boston for swinging like a crazy person at a ball that was well out of the strikezone.

Baseball somehow lasted for 70 years without a DH; most of what is referred to now as "The Golden Age" of baseball, so let's tone down the "THERE'S NO WAY PITCHERS COULD EVER BE EXPECTED TO HIT!!!" rhetoric.

I personally just want the leagues to adopt similar rules. One of the big problems with pitchers hitting is that every minor league has a DH, so most pitchers do not hit during their entire professional careers, sometimes for 3-4 years at a time. Either the NL needs to adopt the DH, or the AL and minor leagues need to drop it.

pythons007
12-16-2009, 01:13 PM
Baseball somehow lasted for 70 years without a DH; most of what is referred to now as "The Golden Age" of baseball, so let's tone down the "THERE'S NO WAY PITCHERS COULD EVER BE EXPECTED TO HIT!!!" rhetoric.

All I'm saying is with the salary of some of these guys, why even give them an option to get hurt? I'm sure the numbers are very unlikely they would, but its happens. I would rather them get hurt on the mound than in the batters box.

If you want the symmetry then the NL should adopt the DH!

thomas35forever
12-16-2009, 01:18 PM
Get rid of the DH and you might as well have interleague play throughout the season. I can't think of any other difference between the AL and NL.

TDog
12-16-2009, 01:38 PM
Baseball somehow lasted for 70 years without a DH; most of what is referred to now as "The Golden Age" of baseball, so let's tone down the "THERE'S NO WAY PITCHERS COULD EVER BE EXPECTED TO HIT!!!" rhetoric.

I personally just want the leagues to adopt similar rules. One of the big problems with pitchers hitting is that every minor league has a DH, so most pitchers do not hit during their entire professional careers, sometimes for 3-4 years at a time. Either the NL needs to adopt the DH, or the AL and minor leagues need to drop it.

Bobby Thigpen was an All-American in college, as a designated hitter. When he played in the Alaska summer league while still in college, he didn't pitch at all, playing first base and the outfield. He hit over .320 for the Peninsula Oilers. He had just one plate appearance in the majors, popping out to Mark Grace in a 1993 win over the Cubs. Mark Kotsay was the closer for his Cal State Fullerton NCAA championship team, closing out the game that won the College World Series, but he was also the hitting star of that series. The way the designated hitter rule works in amateur baseball, in scholastic baseball, there are a lot of pitchers who do a lot of hitting and a lot of hitters who do pitching.

It isn't like pitchers inherently can't hit or there would be a rash of injuries if they did. Babe Ruth didn't give up pitching because he developed a sore arm, but Smoky Joe Wood gave up pitching and went to the outfield because of a pitching-hand injury suffered while fielding a ball off the mound, an injury so painful that the pain persisted until his death almost seven decades later.

I am reminded that in John Powers' "The Unoriginal Sinner and the Ice Cream God" a gas station attendant tells a Chicago Catholic school kid that the nuns are handing him a line when they tell him that a few years earlier a kid's eye fell out after he was hit with a snow ball. "Look, kid, if all it took was a snowball to knock the kid's eye out, it was probably going to fall out anyway." If pitchers are going to get hurt swinging the bat or running the bases, maybe you should take special precautions so they don't slip in the shower.

The designated hitter isn't there to protect pitchers. It is there because in the early 1970s, pitchers were dominating the American League and owners wanted to put more offense into the game. There were National League owners that voted to adopt the DH, but not the required three-fourths majority. The NL had plenty of offense at the time.

I don't see anything wrong with the leagues playing with different sets of rules. By doing so, they remain distinctive leagues.

asindc
12-16-2009, 03:54 PM
There is some validity in this line of thinking. Some people believe that pitchers need to hit to keep the game honest, that a pitcher is less likely to throw at a hitter if he has to step up to the plate himself. People talk about Bob Gibson, of course, but if he was dishing it out, he could also take it. He had two five-home run seasons and struck out less frequently than a couple of DHs did last year.

Some baseball people also believe there are some pitchers who would pitch better if they were hitting in the lineup, that knowing how difficult it is to hit might enhance some pitchers' appreciation for their stuff.

The DH isn't going anywhere, though.

When Todd Stottlemyre went from Toronto to St. Louis, he made the All-Star team. During an interview after his selection, he said he batting in the NL made him realize how difficult it is to hit good pitching, so he began to pitch with more confidence.

TornLabrum
12-16-2009, 09:36 PM
The thing lost in all of this sound and fury (probably signifying nothing) is that EVERY league in professional baseball, and most amateur leagues use the DH. The NL is the oddball here.

russ99
12-16-2009, 11:24 PM
The thing lost in all of this sound and fury (probably signifying nothing) is that EVERY league in professional baseball, and most amateur leagues use the DH. The NL is the oddball here.

Yeah, but they only have the DH in the minor leagues to get more prospects more at-bats. They're not trying to add offense or keep the pitcher from batting.

The NL with the DH just wouldn't be the NL anymore. And I'd be very upset if the Sox had to change from 9 hitters to 8 in a few years.

Besides, making the DH rule consistent would open things up for all kinds of realignment, and that's a bad idea all around.

Makes the most sense to leave it as is... 30 years ago the DH was a fad, but it's become tradition for the AL.

Daver
12-16-2009, 11:29 PM
Yeah, but they only have the DH in the minor leagues to get more prospects more at-bats. They're not trying to add offense or keep the pitcher from batting.


You're wrong.

They use the DH in the independent leagues too, it is to protect the pitcher more than anything else, pitching is hard to replace.

TDog
12-17-2009, 01:00 AM
The thing lost in all of this sound and fury (probably signifying nothing) is that EVERY league in professional baseball, and most amateur leagues use the DH. The NL is the oddball here.

But according to the NCAA designated hitter rule, a player can be the DH and pitch at the same time. Actually, you see it a lot if you watch a lot of college baseball (but maybe that depends on which teams you watch). If the pitcher is removed from the game, he can remain as the designated hitter. If he is replaced by a pinch-hitter or pinch-runner, he can remain in the game to pitch.

I agree with Daver, though, that at the professional level the DH serves to protect pitchers, as unnecessary as that might be. Most National League teams don't see the need. The Giants even used Tim Lincecum, the cornerstone of the franchise, as a pinch runner in extra innings last summer.

rwcescato
12-17-2009, 01:49 AM
You forgot to mention the solemn chess game that is the double switch, which we are deprived of as AL fans.

I guess anyone who wants to witness that style of baseball has an option 8 miles north of the Cell.

You are right about that.

SOXSINCE'70
12-20-2009, 05:03 PM
Yeah, watching pitchers bat is great.

What's even better is watching them get hurt while batting or running the bases, nothing says keeping it real like losing the ace of your staff because he twisted an ankle tripping over a base.

What could get better than that?

You took the words right out of my mouth!!

It's time for the asses of the N.L. to accept one fact; the DH is here to stay. Accept it and make the playing field equal.

Andy T Clown
12-20-2009, 05:54 PM
:clap:Yeah, watching pitchers bat is great.

What's even better is watching them get hurt while batting or running the bases, nothing says keeping it real like losing the ace of your staff because he twisted an ankle tripping over a base.

What could get better than that?

Shoeless
12-20-2009, 11:00 PM
You took the words right out of my mouth!!

It's time for the asses of the N.L. to accept one fact; the DH is here to stay. Accept it and make the playing field equal.

Or don't, and the AL will just own like it has done continually since the incession of interleague play.

doublem23
12-20-2009, 11:19 PM
Or don't, and the AL will just own like it has done continually since the incession of interleague play.

The AL's dominance in interleague play is only a recent trend, through the first six years of interleague play the leagues had split the yearly best record and in overall play, the NL held a 30-game margin.

Of course, over the past 6 years, the AL has posted a better record every single year and has won 170 more games than the NL.

Shoeless
12-20-2009, 11:25 PM
The AL's dominance in interleague play is only a recent trend, through the first six years of interleague play the leagues had split the yearly best record and in overall play, the NL held a 30-game margin.

Of course, over the past 6 years, the AL has posted a better record every single year and has won 170 more games than the NL.

Maybe I have interleague play dominance confused with all-star game dominance.

khan
12-21-2009, 10:11 AM
I HATE watching pitchers try to hit. The overwhelming majority of them can't do it. It's an utter waste of time and money to watch them try.

The only exception to this is whenever a scrubs' pitcher gets to hit or run the bases, as in the case of mark prior v. atlanta a few years back. Then, it becomes a joy to watch.

Dub25
01-14-2010, 11:44 PM
I love when people say the DH is not real baseball. Well, neither is the 5 man rotation, a setup man, a closer, and whatever else I can't think of at the moment. Baseball has become a speciality game, might as well keep the DH.

DumpJerry
01-14-2010, 11:51 PM
I HATE watching pitchers try to hit. The overwhelming majority of them can't do it. It's an utter waste of time and money to watch them try.

The only exception to this is whenever a scrubs' pitcher gets to hit or run the bases, as in the case of mark prior v. atlanta a few years back. Then, it becomes a joy to watch.
Waste of money? I have never been charged extra when the pitcher comes up.:tongue:

cards press box
01-15-2010, 12:18 AM
I think the DH should be dumped just to watch head hunters like Vicente Padilla step up to the plate and take his medicine instead of one of his teammates.

If pitchers have to bat, they have to take that into account if they want to start throwing beanballs. That is, in my view, the best argument against the DH.

Contrary to what many NL fans believe, the best argument for the DH is that it adds strategy to a ballgame. Without the DH, the situation dictates whether a team will remove the pitcher for a pinch hitter. With the DH, a manager has to judge whether a pitcher needs to be removed for ineffectiveness.

What's more, having a DH allows a manager to use his bench for more than pinch hitting for the pitcher (i.e., pinch runners, defensive substitutions and pinch hitting for position players). If managers don't use their bench more than they do, it's not because of the DH; it's because of 12 man pitching staffs. On a side note, if all teams continue this trend of 12 man staffs, teams should consider adding a 26th man to the roster to improve the quality of the game.

One more note: employing a "double switch" is not the height of strategy that some announcers would have fans believe. It's just switching two spots in the batting order -- big deal.

Want an example of a manager who excelled in strategic thinking? How about Earl Weaver. When the DH came into the AL, it didn't decrease the strategies available to Weaver. It increased them.

Dub25
01-15-2010, 12:24 AM
If pitchers have to bat, they have to take that into account if they want to start throwing beanballs. That is, in my view, the best argument against the DH.



I agree with this but the game is not the same. Before the DH beanballs were part of the game. Now if a pitcher hits someone by trying to establish the inside part of the plate, there is a good chance the ump will freakout and warn both benches.

TomBradley72
01-15-2010, 11:54 AM
I'm not a fan of the DH....I like the dynamic pitcher's hitting brings to the game...forces a team to have a deeper bench, use the bench more...need to have a deeper bullpen due to pulling starter for PH. I just think it's a more interesting game than what one more slugger/DH brings to the mix.

russ99
01-15-2010, 12:21 PM
You forgot to mention the solemn chess game that is the double switch, which we are deprived of as AL fans.

I guess anyone who wants to witness that style of baseball has an option 8 miles north of the Cell.

Personally, I love the NL style of baseball, and it had its place for 75 years in both leagues.

But I also like the difference with the DH. Why change it now?

NLaloosh
01-15-2010, 12:29 PM
Truthfully, I don't care much either way. I just think that it's utterly stupid to have the leagues playing by different rules