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Sockinchisox
12-15-2009, 10:53 AM
http://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/6699446791

Sigh...

gr8mexico
12-15-2009, 10:54 AM
What a steal! The Dodgers pick up half his salary

Wait a minute today is not Wednesday. KW flying under the radar again.

Sargeant79
12-15-2009, 10:58 AM
I'll reserve judgment until I hear how much salary the Dodgers are picking up and who we gave up to make it happen. Probably no worse of an option than the Podsednik or Crisp rumors out there though.

spawn
12-15-2009, 10:58 AM
This will stay in WTS until it is reported by a reputable news source...not saying that Twitter isn't reputable. :D:

Sockinchisox
12-15-2009, 10:59 AM
This will stay in WTS until it is reported by a reputable news source...not saying that Twitter isn't reputable. :D:

Tim Brown is Yahoo's head baseball writer.

basilesox
12-15-2009, 11:00 AM
Per Mlbtraderumors.com

soxinem1
12-15-2009, 11:01 AM
Per MLB Trade Rumors.

Bye Pods....

basilesox
12-15-2009, 11:01 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/white-sox-acquire-juan-pierre.html

Cuck the Fubs
12-15-2009, 11:05 AM
I love this move! :bandance:

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 11:06 AM
Curious which pitchers we gave up.

Cangelosi CF
12-15-2009, 11:07 AM
I love this move! :bandance: I'd much rather have Pierre than Pods..and with the Dodgers picking up salary too!

eriqjaffe
12-15-2009, 11:09 AM
Curious which pitchers we gave up.Linebrink counts as a pitching prospect, right?

Marqhead
12-15-2009, 11:09 AM
If true, I like it.

We still need that big bopper in the middle of the order, but the lead off spot is now solidified.

Soxman219
12-15-2009, 11:09 AM
I like the good news!

Law11
12-15-2009, 11:10 AM
Welcome to the South Side Juan.. Thanks again Pods.. Its been a blast.

whitem0nkey
12-15-2009, 11:10 AM
Alex Rios, Andruw Jones and now Juan Pierre, White Sox would have a great outfield if it was 5 years ago.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 11:10 AM
At least the Stirrup Quota is filled.

RowanDye
12-15-2009, 11:10 AM
This will stay in WTS until it is reported by a reputable news source...not saying that Twitter isn't reputable. :D:

OK so while we're still in rumorville, which two pitchers are leaving the farm?

white sox bill
12-15-2009, 11:11 AM
Curious which pitchers we gave up.
It said two minor league pitchers, so hopefully it was Linebrink and someone else.

hawkjt
12-15-2009, 11:11 AM
according to the Score...Sox traded for Pierre from the Dodgers for minor leaguers.

Since Pods was off the table, I like this move for a leadoff guy.

RedHeadPaleHoser
12-15-2009, 11:11 AM
Let's hope the North Side curse has rubbed off by now.

SaltyPretzel
12-15-2009, 11:12 AM
Does TCQ move to right?

Gammons Peter
12-15-2009, 11:13 AM
What a steal! The Dodgers pick up half his salary

Wait a minute today is not Wednesday. KW flying under the radar again.


Steal? They should be paying at least 3/4 of that salary

jej254
12-15-2009, 11:13 AM
I Like it! If the money reports are true, Dodgers picked up half his salary. SO we get him for 2 years for 8 mil?...Theres your new left fielder and leadoff guy...I care less if his arm is average or worse..he fills a need! KW and the Sox have been one of the most active teams this offseason, yet people probably will complain about this trade too...

Soxman219
12-15-2009, 11:14 AM
Just need a situational hitter now. We're so close!

TheOldRoman
12-15-2009, 11:14 AM
Not too bad if we are paying him only $4.5 a year.

It would make much more sense if we shipped Liney their way, especially since we are at or over budget after getting Pierre. Hopefully this report is wrong and we are unloading Linebrink on them. Now, on to finding a DH.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 11:14 AM
I'm going to guess that Ely or Harrell are involved. Maybe both considering the amount of money LA is picking up.

TheOldRoman
12-15-2009, 11:15 AM
Just need a situational hitter now. We're so close!If by situational hitter you mean powerful DH, I agree.

VenturaFan23
12-15-2009, 11:17 AM
Good move Kenny!

spawn
12-15-2009, 11:18 AM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/12/report-white-sox-acquire-juan-pierre.html

hawkjt
12-15-2009, 11:19 AM
Add Matsui or another solid run producer and a bullpen guy and Kenny can probably call it an offseason.

If we get Pierre for 9 million/2 years...then I guess it is a decent deal. Is he better than Pods was this year? Probably about the same, which aint bad,so I feel ok with letting Pods go. Will Pods make 9 million for two years? Probably.

Gammons Peter
12-15-2009, 11:20 AM
B&B should be good for a laugh today. Lots of "he's only good at making outs", "he's an out machine......"

dickallen15
12-15-2009, 11:20 AM
Wow. Jones, Vizquel now Pierre. KW has stacked the offense.

Gammons Peter
12-15-2009, 11:20 AM
Add Matsui or another solid run producer and a bullpen guy and Kenny can probably call it an offseason.

If we get Pierre for 9 million/2 years...then I guess it is a decent deal. Is he better than Pods was this year? Probably about the same, which aint bad,so I feel ok with letting Pods go. Will Pods make 9 million for two years? Probably.

he gone

voodoochile
12-15-2009, 11:21 AM
Add Matsui or another solid run producer and a bullpen guy and Kenny can probably call it an offseason.

If we get Pierre for 9 million/2 years...then I guess it is a decent deal. Is he better than Pods was this year? Probably about the same, which aint bad,so I feel ok with letting Pods go. Will Pods make 9 million for two years? Probably.

I don't think you are going to see another bullpen guy unless you are talking about Jenks.

jej254
12-15-2009, 11:22 AM
Add Matsui or another solid run producer and a bullpen guy and Kenny can probably call it an offseason.

If we get Pierre for 9 million/2 years...then I guess it is a decent deal. Is he better than Pods was this year? Probably about the same, which aint bad,so I feel ok with letting Pods go. Will Pods make 9 million for two years? Probably.

Matsui signed with the Angles. If the Sox still go out and get a DH, I think some logical, maybe not fan approved choices, are Cust, Jacobs, or Glaus.

balke
12-15-2009, 11:22 AM
If by situational hitter you mean powerful DH, I agree.


LF Pierre
2B Beckham
DH Quentin
1B PK
3B Teahan
C Pierzynski
SS Ramirez
CF Rios
RF Jones

Looks either like the most potential in the MLB or a complete bust waiting to happen. Lots of flexibility at least. Quentin and Pierre and Kotsay and Jones can all swap in and out. Pierre and Rios can take turns in CF. Hope for a bunch of bounce back years I guess.

I'm still pretty happy with having Jake Peavy Buehrle Floyd Danks Garcia though.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 11:23 AM
I am pleased that Gordon will not have to leadoff.

dickallen15
12-15-2009, 11:23 AM
Rosenthal has confirmed the deal.

hawkjt
12-15-2009, 11:24 AM
B&B should be good for a laugh today. Lots of "he's only good at making outs", "he's an out machine......"

You think Bernsy could possible hate Pierre more than he hates Pods?

That jerk said that Pods was a joke when he signed with the Sox in May, and he refused to budge or give Pods one ounce of credit for a good season due to his beloved Sabre ratings. Says Pods leading the Sox in average with runners on and two out average with runners on is meaningless. Bull.

B & B hate Pods, but never offer an alternative.

guillen4life13
12-15-2009, 11:24 AM
Heyman has also. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/15/heyman.pierre.whitesox/

Soxfest
12-15-2009, 11:26 AM
Good move price is right and he played very well for Manny...........I like it!

Sargeant79
12-15-2009, 11:30 AM
Per MLBTR, we gave up two PTBNL.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/white-sox-acquire-juan-pierre.html

Jurr
12-15-2009, 11:30 AM
At least the kid can get a friggin' bunt down.

dickallen15
12-15-2009, 11:31 AM
This is a blah move if you ask me, as Pierre's OBP hasn't been very good except for last season, and I wonder how he will do in the AL. They are only paying him $3 million this year and $5 million next, so its not a crazy gamble, but nothing to get excited about.

TheOldRoman
12-15-2009, 11:31 AM
LF Pierre
2B Beckham
DH Quentin
1B PK
3B Teahan
C Pierzynski
SS Ramirez
CF Rios
RF Jones

Looks either like the most potential in the MLB or a complete bust waiting to happen. Lots of flexibility at least. Quentin and Pierre and Kotsay and Jones can all swap in and out. Pierre and Rios can take turns in CF. Hope for a bunch of bounce back years I guess.

I'm still pretty happy with having Jake Peavy Buehrle Floyd Danks Garcia though. Andruw Jones was acquired to be a bench player. Unless he sets the world on fire, he isn't going to be starting.

beasly213
12-15-2009, 11:32 AM
You think Bernsy could possible hate Pierre more than he hates Pods?

That jerk said that Pods was a joke when he signed with the Sox in May, and he refused to budge or give Pods one ounce of credit for a good season due to his beloved Sabre ratings. Says Pods leading the Sox in average with runners on and two out average with runners on is meaningless. Bull.

B & B hate Pods, but never offer an alternative.

Bernsy did hate Pods but it was hard to argue with his points. Pods was horrible in the field and on the basepaths and was responsible for killing many innings.

Bobby Thigpen
12-15-2009, 11:32 AM
B&B are jerk offs. If you take their word for anything, you need some serious help.

I like the move.

balke
12-15-2009, 11:33 AM
Andruw Jones was acquired to be a bench player. Unless he sets the world on fire, he isn't going to be starting.


Then you can replace his name with Kotsay. I don't see the Sox adding a big OFer. They already have 6-7 guys who can play the outfield

Sargeant79
12-15-2009, 11:33 AM
At least the kid can get a friggin' bunt down.

And he doesn't strike out much either, which I like even more. He may have a noodle for an arm, but at least he can cover some ground in left field. As long as Ozzie keeps him away from CF, I think this is probably the best of all the options we had for the leadoff spot.

Gammons Peter
12-15-2009, 11:33 AM
Dye & Thome or Pierre & Teahan. hmmmmm

LITTLE NELL
12-15-2009, 11:33 AM
Thank God, a leadoff hitter!!! Christmas came a little early.
IMHO he still has some good years left.
.301 lifetime avg with a ton of stolen bases.
When I went to Dodger Stadium last summer I was saying to myself he sure would look good in a Sox uniform.

tm1119
12-15-2009, 11:34 AM
Im not sure that I really care about any of our minor league pitchers except Hudson, so as long as hes not involved I like the deal. 4.5 mil a year is not a bad deal at all, probably right about market value if he were a FA.

jej254
12-15-2009, 11:35 AM
And he is very durable..He played 162 games, 5 straight years (03-07)!!! KW I like it!

Marqhead
12-15-2009, 11:35 AM
Dye & Thome or Pierre & Teahan. hmmmmm


$25 Million or $8 million. hmmmmmmmm

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Looking at the stats last year, he seemed to be almost identical to Pods, only he strikes out a hell of a lot less (27 to Pods' 74, has 337 career strikeouts in 5,533 career ABs).

My verdict?

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm117/mtgrnwdstar913/approve.jpg

TheOldRoman
12-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Dye & Thome or Pierre & Teahan. hmmmmm1) We aren't paying Teahen and Pierre the $22 million we would be paying Dye and Thome
2) It's December 15

LITTLE NELL
12-15-2009, 11:37 AM
Then you can replace his name with Kotsay. I don't see the Sox adding a big OFer. They already have 6-7 guys who can play the outfield
What is wrong with Pierre in left, Rios in center and TCQ in right, with Kotsay and Jones and backups. Actually the only question mark is Jones, he just might be toast as far as his career goes.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 11:37 AM
Acceptable. I'm not super excited about this move, but it's not like there were a ton of alternatives if the organization was absolutely set on acquiring an OF who could lead off. Pods, Pierre, Crisp, take your pick.

Now we just need to trade for Adrian/Prince/Votto and we are set.

TheOldRoman
12-15-2009, 11:38 AM
Then you can replace his name with Kotsay. I don't see the Sox adding a big OFer. They already have 6-7 guys who can play the outfieldKenny knows the Sox need a big bat, and he will exhaust every option to the point of overpaying. With this starting rotation, the team is close. KW will get a bat, and I wouldn't be shocked to see something insane like our top 5 prospects for Adrian Gonzalez.

Jjav829
12-15-2009, 11:38 AM
This is a blah move if you ask me, as Pierre's OBP hasn't been very good except for last season, and I wonder how he will do in the AL. They are only paying him $3 million this year and $5 million next, so its not a crazy gamble, but nothing to get excited about.

Pretty much. His OBP from 05-08 was lousy. 2009 seems like a bit of a fluke. But at least the Dodgers are picking up a good amount of that deal. It's probably better than giving Pods 2 years.

It's also nice to know that we've re-united the Dodgers last two bad contracts again, albeit with Jones for $500k and Pierre for much less than he's owed.

whitem0nkey
12-15-2009, 11:38 AM
At least the kid can get a friggin' bunt down.

BREAKING NEWS: US Cellular- Chicago
Juan Pierre is already at US Cellular rolling his balls down the foul lines.

rowand33
12-15-2009, 11:38 AM
Resign Thome to DH.

Go with a lineup of

LF Pierre
2B Beckham
RF Quentin
1B Paulie
3B Teahan
DH Thome
C Pierzynski
CF Rios
SS Ramirez

Speed at the top and bottom and breaks up the DP combo of Konerko-Thome.

Hope for bounce back years from Quentin and Rios. Win the division.

spawn
12-15-2009, 11:38 AM
Looking at the stats last year, he seemed to be almost identical to Pods, only he strikes out a hell of a lot less (27 to Pods' 74, has 337 career strikeouts in 5,533 career ABs).

My verdict?

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm117/mtgrnwdstar913/approve.jpg
He also knows how to bunt and run the bases. I like the move.

Jurr
12-15-2009, 11:38 AM
Dye & Thome or Pierre & Teahan. hmmmmm

Well, Teahen can strike out and end an inning just as easily as Thome can. He can also run into a fastball and knock it out of the park. However, if a ball is hit into the outfield, Teahen could score from second. Oh, yeah, Teahen can also play a defensive position. Hell, he can play three or four.

I have never been a huge fan of losing Dye.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-15-2009, 11:39 AM
Now we just need to trade for Adrian/Prince/Votto and we are set.

I think you meant to put deeppink there.

If we get a solid middle of the order guy, I'll be happy with this offseason. If we can get an Adrian Gonzalez, then I'll be crying with joy.

pythons007
12-15-2009, 11:39 AM
BREAKING NEWS: US Cellular- Chicago
Juan Pierre is already at US Cellular rolling his balls down the foul lines.

hahaaha! I love it!

34 Inch Stick
12-15-2009, 11:40 AM
1) We aren't paying Teahen and Pierre the $22 million we would be paying Dye and Thome
2) It's December 15

In all fairness, Thome and Dye won't be getting that kind of money for next year either. I have a feeling Dye will get less than Matsui and Thome will be less than Dye. I'd imagine a combined Dye and Thome will be 10 million this year.

doublem23
12-15-2009, 11:40 AM
Im not sure that I really care about any of our minor league pitchers except Hudson, so as long as hes not involved I like the deal. 4.5 mil a year is not a bad deal at all, probably right about market value if he were a FA.

If KW gave up Hudson for Juan Pierre, I'm going to drive my car into the lake.

Jurr
12-15-2009, 11:40 AM
Oh, yeah let's also remember the old adage:

Kenny, one day or another, ALWAYS GETS HIS MAN.

voodoochile
12-15-2009, 11:40 AM
$25 Million or $8 million. hmmmmmmmm

You're not actually expecting GP to say something good about KW and the team are you?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-15-2009, 11:40 AM
BREAKING NEWS: US Cellular- Chicago
Juan Pierre is already at US Cellular rolling his balls down the foul lines.

:?: In this weather? Wouldn't they freeze?

palehosepub
12-15-2009, 11:40 AM
Hudson will NOT be part of this trade it will be B level pitchers give Kenny some credit

Metalthrasher442
12-15-2009, 11:41 AM
I like this move. Pierre is a gamer with his bat. A consist gamer that is. The only things we have left to do is find a DH somewhere somehow. Jones is as the standing DH currently is a terrible idea.

goon
12-15-2009, 11:41 AM
Let's see if this ****er can play in the AL.

It's a good move for a lot of reasons, but it was just about the only viable option for Williams. At least on the surface.

It's tough to rely on Podsednik because of his injury history.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-15-2009, 11:42 AM
If KW gave up Hudson for Juan Pierre, I'm going to drive my car into the lake.

I'd HIGHLY doubt that. Since they were PTBNL, the Sox gave up probably no higher than AA players.

34 Inch Stick
12-15-2009, 11:42 AM
Resign Thome to DH.

Go with a lineup of

LF Pierre
2B Beckham
RF Quentin
1B Paulie
3B Teahan
DH Thome
C Pierzynski
CF Rios
SS Ramirez

Speed at the top and bottom and breaks up the DP combo of Konerko-Thome.

Hope for bounce back years from Quentin and Rios. Win the division.

This would not shock me

PaleHoser
12-15-2009, 11:43 AM
What's the advantage of two PTBNL? Maybe the Dodgers want someone drafted last summer and need to wait until the year has lapsed since their signing?

veeter
12-15-2009, 11:43 AM
If he plays everyday, mark down 200 hits. Very good move because of the salary picked up by L.A. Players given up probably will be based on how he plays. So it's a win, win to me. I really like Scotty, but he's a dope on the bases and is prime for an injury. Gordon must have some pull, the other day he stated he really would prefer NOT to lead off. I like the signing. Andrew Jones is going to be a late inning defensive replacement every single game.

JohnnyInnsbrook
12-15-2009, 11:44 AM
LF Pierre
2B Beckham
DH Quentin
1B PK
3B Teahan
C Pierzynski
SS Ramirez
CF Rios
RF Jones


The only thing that bothers me about that line up is that it seems a little weak in the 3,4,5 holes. A power left hander would round this lineup out nicely.

doublem23
12-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Resign Thome to DH.

Go with a lineup of

LF Pierre
2B Beckham
RF Quentin
1B Paulie
3B Teahan
DH Thome
C Pierzynski
CF Rios
SS Ramirez

Speed at the top and bottom and breaks up the DP combo of Konerko-Thome.

Hope for bounce back years from Quentin and Rios. Win the division.

You know really, if the pitching staff is as good as we think it could be and if Quentin and Rios can produce at an average level for their talent, that team really could win 95+ games this year.

TheOldRoman
12-15-2009, 11:45 AM
In all fairness, Thome and Dye won't be getting that kind of money for next year either. I have a feeling Dye will get less than Matsui and Thome will be less than Dye. I'd imagine a combined Dye and Thome will be 10 million this year.Well, the Sox could have possibly worked out deals with them before the arb deadline (if they wouldn't have trade Thome), but if they would have picked up Dye's option and offer arb to Thome, that is what they would have paid.

Gammons Peter
12-15-2009, 11:45 AM
You're not actually expecting GP to say something good about KW and the team are you?


I have posted plenty of good things about KW and the team. I'm just not a big Pierre fan. I hope I'm wrong about him, I want to see the team do well, I just think we need to replace a few of those dingers.

voodoochile
12-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Resign Thome to DH.

Go with a lineup of

LF Pierre
2B Beckham
RF Quentin
1B Paulie
3B Teahan
DH Thome
C Pierzynski
CF Rios
SS Ramirez

Speed at the top and bottom and breaks up the DP combo of Konerko-Thome.

Hope for bounce back years from Quentin and Rios. Win the division.

Something is going to change there, because Ozzie likes to swap off his LH and RH hitters. You've got 3 RH in a row then 3 LH in a row. Maybe Thome bats cleanup with PK moving to 5th or TCM moves up to 7th and everyone else drops down.

RowanDye
12-15-2009, 11:46 AM
Let's hope the North Side curse has rubbed off by now.


It might be kind of sad, but I would take Pierre's '06 season with the Cubs next year. Pierre is less likely to disappoint than Podsednik, although I'm not sure of the cost/benefit.

Pierre will probably steal more bases than Pods and certainly strikeout less.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-15-2009, 11:46 AM
The only thing that bothers me about that line up is that it seems a little weak in the 3,4,5 holes. A power left hander would round this lineup out nicely.

:thome:

"Perhaps I can be of some assistance."

Actually, now that we have Pierre, I wouldn't mind seeing Thome back.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 11:46 AM
If KW gave up Hudson for Juan Pierre, I'm going to drive my car into the lake.

I would drop out of school to champion the fire KW movement.

soxinem1
12-15-2009, 11:47 AM
Thank God, a leadoff hitter!!! Christmas came a little early.
IMHO he still has some good years left.
.301 lifetime avg with a ton of stolen bases.
When I went to Dodger Stadium last summer I was saying to myself he sure would look good in a Sox uniform.

Not a bad move, however:

Pierre is not the world's best baserunner, as he has also accumilated more CS than anyone else in the past decade.

Plus, putting him in LF will make us long for Pods arm, that's how bad his throwing has always been.

His OBP is very low for a career .300 hitter.

But considering the options, and it looks undoubtedly as Crisp and Pods price tags were not to KW's likeing, at least we will not ruin Beckham by making him the default lead-off man.

Actually, now that we have Pierre, I wouldn't mind seeing Thome back.

He can barely run, and is questionable to play every day anymore.

Viva Medias B's
12-15-2009, 11:47 AM
Once again, KW goes to the clearance rack?

jabrch
12-15-2009, 11:47 AM
What's the advantage of two PTBNL? Maybe the Dodgers want someone drafted last summer and need to wait until the year has lapsed since their signing?


Sometimes this is done to allow management time to contact the players traded. With minor leaguers, it isn't always as easy as getting to major leaguers.

rowand33
12-15-2009, 11:48 AM
You know really, if the pitching staff is as good as we think it could be and if Quentin and Rios can produce at an average level for their talent, that team really could win 95+ games this year.

Completely agree.

And with the Twins losing metrodome home field advantage and the Tigers losing Granderson, I think we'd be the favorite for the division.

How many wins takes the Central this year? I'd say high 80s unless something changes.

Marqhead
12-15-2009, 11:48 AM
I have posted plenty of good things about KW and the team. I'm just not a big Pierre fan. I hope I'm wrong about him, I want to see the team do well, I just think we need to replace a few of those dingers.

There's no argument with that here. I think there is still plenty of time to get that big bat. The options are dwindling, but the off season is far from over.

veeter
12-15-2009, 11:48 AM
:thome:

"Perhaps I can be of some assistance."

Actually, now that we have Pierre, I wouldn't mind seeing Thome back.I could actually see this happening.

tick53
12-15-2009, 11:49 AM
Well, I hope this works out. I'm not overly thrilled about the acquisition but he is a good base stealer and a sure enough lead-off man. Let's hope it's for the best.


:hawk

"Let me tell you something Stone Pony. The White
Sox are not afraid to play the young guys."

balke
12-15-2009, 11:50 AM
You know really, if the pitching staff is as good as we think it could be and if Quentin and Rios can produce at an average level for their talent, that team really could win 95+ games this year.

There's too much mystery on this team right now lineup wise. Could be an oustanding lineup. Really its more likely by current trends this lineup looks borderline terrible. So many players on this team have a ton of talent and potential, but have been putting up blah numbers (beckham and A.J. excluded).

Quentin almost has to DH if he's going to deal with Plantar's foot again this year. Kenny already made the statement they don't want a "traditional DH" so I don't see Thome being on the radar. Really if he's going to hit under .250 - do the Sox even want to go that route?

soxfanreggie
12-15-2009, 11:51 AM
Just got the word from ESPN about the deal.

SFR's Happy Dance:

:bandance::bandance::bandance::bandance::bandance:


Someone who can leadoff and be our 3rd starter in the OF.

veeter
12-15-2009, 11:52 AM
I want Kenny to do all my Christmas shopping, the guy would save me tons of dough.

gr8mexico
12-15-2009, 11:53 AM
Come on Kenny try and get Adrian Gonzalez.
Trade Carlos Quentin plus prospects for Adrian Gonzalez.

LF Juan Pierre
2B Gordon Beckham
1B Adrian Gonzalez
DH Paul Konerko
C A.J
RF Andruw Jones
CF Alex Rios
SS Alexei Ramirez
3B Mark Teahen

veeter
12-15-2009, 11:54 AM
There's no argument with that here. I think there is still plenty of time to get that big bat. The options are dwindling, but the off season is far from over.I think the plan was just like off-season 2004. Shore up the defense, kick ass starting pitching, prey for good bullpen work, and just score enough runs. But I agree, they need one more hitter.

GregO23
12-15-2009, 11:54 AM
With us getting Pierre I do not mind losing Matsui. I say we go for Dye now so he and Quentin can rotate DH/RF. 1Yr/4.5M with a like 7M mutual option be enough for Dye? No way can an all star snub fall as fast as he did last year. He is not done.

And there is that young boy named Jimmy

guillen4life13
12-15-2009, 11:54 AM
I still think that DH is going to be by committee, with Kotsay, Jones, Pierre, and Quentin all getting AB's split in that position. Quentin will be the primary RF. Pierre will be the primary LF. Jones is the primary OF replacement, with Kotsay spelling Konerko and getting some time in the OF.

I'm not necessarily against that.

I'm looking for a rebound year from Jones. I believe that he is the key to the team's success.

I don't want to get someone in at DH like Thome who can't field.

Gammons Peter
12-15-2009, 11:55 AM
Come on Kenny try and get Adrian Gonzalez.
Trade Carlos Quentin plus prospects for Adrian Gonzalez.

LF Juan Pierre
2B Gordon Beckham
1B Adrian Gonzalez
DH Paul Konerko
C A.J
RF Andruw Jones
CF Alex Rios
SS Alexei Ramirez
3B Mark Teahen


I'm pretty sure Gonzalez will wind up in Boston

michned
12-15-2009, 11:55 AM
Sometimes this is done to allow management time to contact the players traded. With minor leaguers, it isn't always as easy as getting to major leaguers.

Could also be that the Dodgers have a list of prospects that they'll get to choose two of, and they'll be allowed to evaluate them for a few months of the season before they select them. I think a lot of PTBNL trades are conducted like that, with a team selecting one or two guys from a list of five or ten.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 11:55 AM
Supposedly LA will be given a list of pitchers to choose from. All of them likely to be able to pitch in the bigs in 2010 at some point.

I'd imagine that includes Ely, Harrell, Torres, and Hynick.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=4744955

twsoxfan5
12-15-2009, 11:55 AM
I like this move. I don't love it but I like it. I think this team is actually rounding into shape quite nicely. I tell you what I like this team right now as it is a lot better then I liked last year's sqaud. On paper this team has more speed and more pitching and that usually equals more wins.

NLaloosh
12-15-2009, 11:56 AM
These guys the Sox gave up better not amount to anything.

seventyseven
12-15-2009, 11:56 AM
If Quentin stays healthy, I'm guessing Pierre will spend most of the year at DH.

jej254
12-15-2009, 11:57 AM
If Quentin stays healthy, I'm guessing Pierre will spend most of the year at DH.

Um, Who do u have in right then?

markopat
12-15-2009, 11:57 AM
I love reading these threads when a move like this happens.

I like this move considering the other options that we were staring at. I just love the fact that KW is out there working his ass off to make our team better.

Thoughts: Moving TCQ to DH will make him less susceptible to an injury...What does the OF look like if that happens. Lots of talk about Thome coming back in this thread as well, not sure that's an answer for us. Interesting line-ups being thrown around as well. Will be fun to see what Ozzies starting line up looks like in 2010. Give Ozzie the ingredients, he'll make the soup!

Let's hope that some of these veteran players have great years...I like where we are going.

dickallen15
12-15-2009, 11:58 AM
I still think that DH is going to be by committee, with Kotsay, Jones, Pierre, and Quentin all getting AB's split in that position. Quentin will be the primary RF. Pierre will be the primary LF. Jones is the primary OF replacement, with Kotsay spelling Konerko and getting some time in the OF.

I'm not necessarily against that.

I'm looking for a rebound year from Jones. I believe that he is the key to the team's success.

I don't want to get someone in at DH like Thome who can't field.

Jones has had 3 bad years in a row. If you expect a bounce back year, chances are you will be highly dissappointed. How does everyone think Pierre will adapt to the AL? There was talk a couple years ago that the White Sox brass didn't think his game would translate well if he switched leagues?

rowand33
12-15-2009, 11:59 AM
What about Nady for RF to move TCQ to DH?

...
12-15-2009, 12:00 PM
These guys the Sox gave up better not amount to anything.

Yeah!

Noneck
12-15-2009, 12:00 PM
Supposedly LA will be given a list of pitchers to choose from. All of them likely to be able to pitch in the bigs in 2010 at some point.

I'd imagine that includes Ely, Harrell, Torres, and Hynick.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=4744955

I dont see these guys being able to pitch for the dodgers this year. Unless by some point in 2010, they mean sept callups. I just hope Hudson is not part of the deal.

Viva Medias B's
12-15-2009, 12:00 PM
Steve Stone to be on the Score at about 11:20 to discuss the trade.

Sufferin
12-15-2009, 12:01 PM
If Quentin stays healthy, I'm guessing Pierre will spend most of the year at DH.
Why????:scratch:

seventyseven
12-15-2009, 12:02 PM
Um, Who do u have in right then?

If you started the season today, interchange Jones, Kotsay, or Teahen.

ChiSox89
12-15-2009, 12:02 PM
i love this deal. can't wait for the season to start. just heard on the radio that pierre will leadoff and play left field and that the dodgers will pick two minor leauge pitchers that are major league ready from a list of pitchers.

CPditka
12-15-2009, 12:02 PM
I wonder who we gave up?

PTBNL? Im assuming its 2 pitchers from our last draft class


Thoughts?




....just dont be Daniel Hudson

seventyseven
12-15-2009, 12:02 PM
Why????:scratch:

Because his defense in LF would make us pine for Pods.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 12:03 PM
I dont see these guys being able to pitch for the dodgers this year. I just hope Hudson is not part of the deal.

There is no way Hudson is part of the deal. The players I listed are the closest to the bigs out of any of the pitchers not named Hudson.

Edit: I only listed starters, as that is what was rumored that the Dodgers had been looking for in exchange for Pierre. If relievers are involved, Link/Nunez/Ommogrosso/Santeliz could be involved as well.

asindc
12-15-2009, 12:04 PM
Is it too early too change the thread title to "confirmed?"

I like this move, especially with the money coming this way and apparently all the elite Sox minor league prospects staying in the fold. Now, I would like to see KW sign Dye to an incentive-laden contract to DH(about 110 games)/RF(about 25 games).

soltrain21
12-15-2009, 12:04 PM
I wonder who we gave up?

PTBNL? Im assuming its 2 pitchers from our last draft class


Thoughts?




....just dont be Daniel Hudson

They aren't giving up Daniel Hudson.

chunk
12-15-2009, 12:04 PM
Because his defense in LF would make us pine for Pods.


Seriously, our defense is going to be abysmal next year. I don't like this move at all.

soltrain21
12-15-2009, 12:05 PM
Is it too early too change the thread title to "confirmed?"

I like this move, especially with the money coming this way and apparently all the elite Sox minor league prospects staying in the fold. Now, I would like to see KW sign Dye to an incentive-laden contract to DH(about 110 games)/RF(about 25 games).


How many "elite" pitchers do we have in the minors? One? Our pitching blows in the minors.

soxinem1
12-15-2009, 12:06 PM
FWIW, the LA Times ran a poll yesterday before this trade was made and 55% of their fans are against trading Pierre.

Looks like Pierre is already in Chicago and will be at a press conference today announcing the trade.

asindc
12-15-2009, 12:06 PM
How many "elite" pitchers do we have in the minors? One? Our pitching blows in the minors.

Elite from a relative standpoint, meaning not "our" top prospects.

Jimmy Piersall
12-15-2009, 12:07 PM
In favor of this.Two years holding down the leadoff spot until either
Danks or Mitchell is ready.To any of you fine fellers who follows the
minors,is the Mitchell kid projected to be ready by then ? because
Jordan Danks will be part of the package going to S.D. for Gonzalez :redneck

dickallen15
12-15-2009, 12:08 PM
Steve Stone to be on the Score at about 11:20 to discuss the trade.
I love Stone, but since he became a White Sox broadcaster he hasn't really questioned many moves and I highly doubt he will question this one. I hope it works out, but the Sox still need a bat. A big one.

JermaineDye05
12-15-2009, 12:08 PM
Kenny always gets his guy...

As long as one of those pitchers isn't Daniel Hudson, I like the move.

guillen4life13
12-15-2009, 12:09 PM
Jones has had 3 bad years in a row. If you expect a bounce back year, chances are you will be highly dissappointed. How does everyone think Pierre will adapt to the AL? There was talk a couple years ago that the White Sox brass didn't think his game would translate well if he switched leagues?

Maybe I should have used pink when I said "looking for," but I do think it's very possible.

1) The last two seasons he has had injury issues. 2007 may have been a down year.
2) He's only 32.
3) If the Sox were to get the 2007 or 2009 version of Andruw Jones, I wouldn't be too unhappy. It's certainly not ideal, but in 2007, he hit 24 HR and 94 RBI over a full season. Last year, in 281 AB, he hit 17 HR and 43 RBI. Extrapolate that over 550 AB, and you're talking about 33 HR, 80 RBI. For the money, you could do a lot worse. He still has some power and by no means is he a dead spot in the lineup. If you put him over a full season, you can reasonably expect 20-30 HR, 80-95 RBI.

I know he "wasn't signed to be a backup," but I'd rather have Pierre DHing and Jones as an everyday OF.

Noneck
12-15-2009, 12:09 PM
The way I look at this, if this deal comes down to 2 minor league Sox pitchers and 1 not being Hudson, its a 8m salary dump by the dodgers.

MisterB
12-15-2009, 12:09 PM
Not a bad move, however:

Pierre is not the world's best baserunner, as he has also accumilated more CS than anyone else in the past decade.


He also has more steal attempts than anyone in the past decade. He's just shy of a 75% success rate, which is plenty acceptable. In fact the Sox now have MLB's top 2 active leaders in stolen bases (Pierre & Vizquel).

soltrain21
12-15-2009, 12:10 PM
I love Stone, but since he became a White Sox broadcaster he hasn't really questioned many moves and I highly doubt he will question this one. I hope it works out, but the Sox still need a bat. A big one.

I agree. I still think we need a corner outfielder just so TCQ and the outfielder in question can switch between DH/RF. I'm not entirely convinced TCQ can play right every day. The foot condition he has never actually goes away.

sox1970
12-15-2009, 12:10 PM
In favor of this.Two years holding down the leadoff spot until either
Danks or Mitchell is ready.To any of you fine fellers who follows the
minors,is the Mitchell kid projected to be ready by then ? because
Jordan Danks will be part of the package going to S.D. for Gonzalez :redneck

Buddy Bell was on with Ranger over the weekend. He basically said Mitchell has some "subtle" adjustments to make. Unless he tears it up, don't expect Mitchell in the majors until the middle of 2011, at the earliest. I think he'll be at High-A in 2010, and then he'll go from there.

thedudeabides
12-15-2009, 12:11 PM
Jones has had 3 bad years in a row. If you expect a bounce back year, chances are you will be highly dissappointed. How does everyone think Pierre will adapt to the AL? There was talk a couple years ago that the White Sox brass didn't think his game would translate well if he switched leagues?

He's a contact hitter, so I don't see his game changing much. You have to hope he gets the benefit of of the league not seeing him, for the first year or first half anyway.

I see him as an upgrade to Pods, in most areas.

The best thing is, we don't have to see Beckham or Rios leading off.

He'll also be a good addition for the Sox supposed problem with soft tossers and no name guys. I think their lineup in general, is more versatile, but it absolutely needs more power.

JermaineDye05
12-15-2009, 12:11 PM
I love Stone, but since he became a White Sox broadcaster he hasn't really questioned many moves and I highly doubt he will question this one. I hope it works out, but the Sox still need a bat. A big one.

He questioned the Peavy one when it happened. Now he didn't say it was bad or anything but he did mention the whole US Cellular/Petco, AL/NL transition when it first happened.

soxinem1
12-15-2009, 12:13 PM
I agree. I still think we need a corner outfielder just so TCQ and the outfielder in question can switch between DH/RF. I'm not entirely convinced TCQ can play right every day. The foot condition he has never actually goes away.

Ask Marty Cordova about it. His career was derailed for the same issue.

Plus, I'm not sure Quentin playing LF or RF is going to help him much. Sounds like even running the bases is going to be an issue.

RowanDye
12-15-2009, 12:13 PM
He also has more steal attempts than anyone in the past decade. He's just shy of a 75% success rate, which is plenty acceptable. In fact the Sox now have MLB's top 2 active leaders in stolen bases (Pierre & Vizquel).

Nice factoid, but I don't think Vizquel will be swiping many bags next year.

Flight #24
12-15-2009, 12:16 PM
This may be over-reading into the wording of the ESPN article, but if it's guys that could reach the bigs in '10, wouldn't that exclude Hudson who actually already "made" the bigs in '09?

Regardless, if it's a couple of B-list gfuys I'm all for it. Like Jones, it's relatively low-risk, high reward. Not a world-beating move, but one that improves the team without costing too much.

gr8mexico
12-15-2009, 12:17 PM
Jones has had 3 bad years in a row. If you expect a bounce back year, chances are you will be highly dissappointed. How does everyone think Pierre will adapt to the AL? There was talk a couple years ago that the White Sox brass didn't think his game would translate well if he switched leagues?
Jermaine Dye had 3 bad years in a row before joining the Sox.
How did that work out?

whitem0nkey
12-15-2009, 12:18 PM
ChuckGarfien (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien)

The Dodgers will reportedly pay more than half of Pierre's remaining salary. #WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox) owe Juan $3 mil in 2010 and $5 mil in 2011.

Corlose 15
12-15-2009, 12:18 PM
Ask Marty Cordova about it. His career was derailed for the same issue.

Plus, I'm not sure Quentin playing LF or RF is going to help him much. Sounds like even running the bases is going to be an issue.

Yep, because Marty Cordova's carrer was derailed by plantar fascia issues Carlos Quentin's is sure to be. :cool:

soxinem1
12-15-2009, 12:20 PM
This may be over-reading into the wording of the ESPN article, but if it's guys that could reach the bigs in '10, wouldn't that exclude Hudson who actually already "made" the bigs in '09?

Regardless, if it's a couple of B-list gfuys I'm all for it. Like Jones, it's relatively low-risk, high reward. Not a world-beating move, but one that improves the team without costing too much.

ESPN and the LA Times says the Whte Sox will pay $3 million in 2010, and $5 million in 2011 of the $18 million Pierre has coming.

That is probably less than Pods or Crisp would have wanted to sign here, plus Pods wants three years.

Despite some reservations of the OF make up, this is a solid move, if Daniel Hudson (who will be our fifth starter by July) is not part of the deal, of course.

thedudeabides
12-15-2009, 12:22 PM
Because his defense in LF would make us pine for Pods.

Wrong. Pierre is actually a good LF. He's not a very good CF, but can handle left pretty well. People make too big of a deal about a poor throwing arm in LF.

Pods is one of the worst outfielders in baseball, and his arm really isn't any better than Pierre.

WhiteSox5187
12-15-2009, 12:23 PM
Hmm. Well, he wears stirrups, so at the very least he has that going for him...plus with LA picking up half his salary this shouldn't hurt too much.

Law11
12-15-2009, 12:24 PM
Come on Kenny try and get Adrian Gonzalez.
Trade Carlos Quentin plus prospects for Adrian Gonzalez.


Gonzalez is the face of that team now. Theres no way they are trading him.

Corlose 15
12-15-2009, 12:25 PM
Since this is up on the Sox website, can't this rumor be confirmed now?

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091215&content_id=7811916&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Gammons Peter
12-15-2009, 12:25 PM
ESPN and the LA Times says the Whte Sox will pay $3 million in 2010, and $5 million in 2011 of the $18 million Pierre has coming.

That is probably less than Pods or Crisp would have wanted to sign here, plus Pods wants three years.

Despite some reservations of the OF make up, this is a solid move, if Daniel Hudson (who will be our fifth starter by July) is not part of the deal, of course.

why?... Do you expect Freddy to be bad? hurt? drunk?

doublem23
12-15-2009, 12:26 PM
These guys the Sox gave up better not amount to anything.

Who cares if they do or not? They're all basically blocked since 4/5 of our rotation is under contract until 2011. That's what prospects are for, filling holes in the MLB roster by either getting promoted or being dealt for other players.

Rohan
12-15-2009, 12:29 PM
WOW. Welcome on board Juan Pierre. I'm loving it. And we get to keep Linebrink who can maybe put his stuff back together.

TheOldRoman
12-15-2009, 12:30 PM
Because his defense in LF would make us pine for Pods.No.
Wrong. Pierre is actually a good LF. He's not a very good CF, but can handle left pretty well. People make too big of a deal about a poor throwing arm in LF.

Pods is one of the worst outfielders in baseball, and his arm really isn't any better than Pierre.Yep. He is a good defender with a really bad arm. Pods is a horrible defender with a really bad arm. I am not sure whose arm is worse. We will still see guys rouding third on hits to left, but at least we wont have to see balls bouncing off the LF's head.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 12:32 PM
We give up Ely and Link. I win. (Though still not confirmed.)

http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/6702106304

CPditka
12-15-2009, 12:33 PM
We give up Ely and Link. I win.

http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/6702106304


Ill take it.

Sargeant79
12-15-2009, 12:34 PM
Why does everybody keep saying "As long as Daniel Hudson isn't included in the deal" like it's even a remote possibility? Not even in the strangest parallel universe would he be part of this trade. The Bears will win the Super Bowl this year before Dan Hudson is included in this trade.

Noneck
12-15-2009, 12:35 PM
For Ely and Link. No complaints here. Sox take advantage of a salary dump.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 12:35 PM
If that is indeed the return, no big loss. I liked Ely because he was a nice local boy though. He's also a huge Sox fan.

AZChiSoxFan
12-15-2009, 12:37 PM
I love this move! :bandance:

I agree with you!

tebman
12-15-2009, 12:38 PM
It's been said a dozen times already, but I'm excited about this. A real leadoff guy who's a better outfielder, an already-improved bench and a top-shelf starting rotation. When do pitchers and catchers report?

:gulp:

KRS1
12-15-2009, 12:38 PM
Not sure about our OF defense looks at this point, well, I can probably say that I surely don't feel good about it. I can stomach Juan in LF, but the closest the guy should come to the 400 sign is when he's warming up around the warning track. I still think we should acquire a bopper for RF and DH TCQ.

Noneck
12-15-2009, 12:43 PM
I still think we should acquire a bopper for RF and DH TCQ.

Very difficult getting that bopper that can also play a good RF, which is needed to help the OF defense. At this point I really wouldn't mind just getting a good defensive RFer or CFer and hoping for the best.

dickallen15
12-15-2009, 12:45 PM
Jermaine Dye had 3 bad years in a row before joining the Sox.
How did that work out?

His last year in Oakland was just slightly worse than his first year with the White Sox. He still was able to command a contract with a guarantee 20 times what Jones is guaranteed. Andruw Jones is not very good anymore.

NLaloosh
12-15-2009, 12:45 PM
Not at all excited by this trade. And, we give up two decent pitching prospects?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-15-2009, 12:45 PM
Very difficult getting that bopper that can also play a good RF, which is needed to help the OF defense. At this point I really wouldn't mind just getting a good defensive RFer or CFer and hoping for the best.

How about Jermaine Dye? :duck:

russ99
12-15-2009, 12:46 PM
Not at all excited by this trade. And, we give up two decent pitching prospects?

What's not to like?

If Pierre is healthy, he's a top-10 leadoff man. The Dodgers ate salary and all we gave up are two prospects that got passed on the depth chart last season.

Kenny, you rock.

Gonna miss Pods, but not at what he wants per season...

RustyKuntz
12-15-2009, 12:48 PM
Then you can replace his name with Kotsay. I don't see the Sox adding a big OFer. They already have 6-7 guys who can play the outfield

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan Danks given every opportunity to play the outfield.

VeeckAsInWreck
12-15-2009, 12:48 PM
What's not to like?

If Pierre is healthy, he's a top-10 leadoff man. The Dodgers ate salary and all we gave up are two prospects that got passed on the depth chart last season.

Kenny, you rock.

EXACTLY!!!!!

Pierre was amazing when he played during Manny's suspension.

He's an upgrade over Pods and we gave up little to get him. I don't see what's not to like in this deal.

Rockabilly
12-15-2009, 12:49 PM
another great move by KW.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 12:49 PM
Not at all excited by this trade. And, we give up two decent pitching prospects?

I wouldn't classify them as decent. They are both fringe prospects. Nothing to lose sleep over.

Jollyroger2
12-15-2009, 12:49 PM
What's not to like?

If Pierre is healthy, he's a top-10 leadoff man. The Dodgers ate salary and all we gave up are two prospects that got passed on the depth chart last season.

Kenny, you rock.

Gonna miss Pods, but not at what he wants per season...

Agreed. I like it.

tstrike2000
12-15-2009, 12:50 PM
Come on Kenny try and get Adrian Gonzalez.
Trade Carlos Quentin plus prospects for Adrian Gonzalez.

The speculation has always been, the Padres are willing to part with AGon, but the price could be borderline astronomical.

dickallen15
12-15-2009, 12:52 PM
The speculation has always been, the Padres are willing to part with AGon, but the price could be borderline astronomical.
It should be. Not only is his production worth a ton, he's signed cheaply for 2 more seasons.

soxinem1
12-15-2009, 12:52 PM
We gave up less to get Pierre than to get Pods the first time.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-15-2009, 12:53 PM
It should be. Not only is his production worth a ton, he's signed cheaply for 2 more seasons.

..and he's young, too.

The Padres deserve to get a ton for him.

Noneck
12-15-2009, 12:53 PM
Not at all excited by this trade. And, we give up two decent pitching prospects?

When was the last time any Sox pitching prospects amounted to much? Or are you thinking someone eventually will amount to something and maybe it will be one of these guys?

kittle42
12-15-2009, 12:54 PM
$25 Million or $8 million. hmmmmmmmm

Ah, yes - I forgot the Sox' annual Fiscal Responsibility Championship that goes up in City Hall next to the Cubs' Attendance Championship.

Chicago Baseball!!!

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-15-2009, 12:54 PM
Ah, yes - I forgot the Sox' annual Fiscal Responsibility Championship that goes up in City Hall next to the Cubs' Attendance Championship.

Chicago Baseball!!!

Post of the thread, right here.

NLaloosh
12-15-2009, 12:55 PM
When was the last time any Sox pitching prospects amounted to much? Or are you thinking someone eventually will amount to something and maybe it will be one of these guys?

I don't know. Maybe I'm just not a big Pierre fan. I'll wait and see. Kenny is usually on the mark so I give him the benefit of the doubt.

And, yes, I did like both of those pitchers.

Sargeant79
12-15-2009, 12:55 PM
Not at all excited by this trade. And, we give up two decent pitching prospects?

Link and Ely are not decent pitching prospects. In all likelyhood, they will each max out as the 11th guy of most pitching staffs.

NLaloosh
12-15-2009, 12:56 PM
Link and Ely are not decent pitching prospects. In all likelyhood, they will each max out as the 11th guy of most pitching staffs.

I hope you're right.

Waysouthsider
12-15-2009, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan Danks given every opportunity to play the outfield.


I agree with this.....I think Danks is coming up this year.....great move on Pierre all the way around IMHO

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-15-2009, 12:56 PM
Link and Ely are not decent pitching prospects. In all likelyhood, they will each max out as the 11th guy of most pitching staffs.

Wasn't it just this last season when people were pining for Link to get a shot as the Sox' closer?

Bobby Thigpen
12-15-2009, 12:56 PM
This is a good deal. The team is beginning to assemble some good pieces.

Or it will be a monumental disaster. I'm leaning toward an exciting year.

gobears1987
12-15-2009, 12:56 PM
All we need now is a DH and someone who is dumb enough to take Linebrink off of our hands.

Corlose 15
12-15-2009, 12:57 PM
Ah, yes - I forgot the Sox' annual Fiscal Responsibility Championship that goes up in City Hall next to the Cubs' Attendance Championship.

Chicago Baseball!!!

In many cases fiscal responsibility leads to on field success. Or would you prefer the Sox sign every star they can get their hands on to albatross contracts just so they're big time players in free agency?

Sargeant79
12-15-2009, 12:58 PM
Wasn't it just this last season when people were pining for Link to get a shot as the Sox' closer?

I wasn't one of them.

As someone else pointed out, he was passed on the prospect lists this past year. If I remember correctly, scouting reports said he still needs a significant amount of development before he could be considered as someone who could actually be able to get major leaguers out on a consistent basis.

He's been talked about a bunch on this board, but I doubt he's even a top 10 prospect anymore. Neither of these guys will be missed.

soltrain21
12-15-2009, 12:59 PM
Ah, yes - I forgot the Sox' annual Fiscal Responsibility Championship that goes up in City Hall next to the Cubs' Attendance Championship.

Chicago Baseball!!!

So you feel Dye and Thome's production last year was equal to 25 million? I sure don't.

JB98
12-15-2009, 01:02 PM
I wasn't one of them.

As someone else pointed out, he was passed on the prospect lists this past year. If I remember correctly, scouting reports said he still needs a significant amount of development before he could be considered as someone who could actually be able to get major leaguers out on a consistent basis.

He's been talked about a bunch on this board, but I doubt he's even a top 10 prospect anymore. Neither of these guys will be missed.

Yeah, Link sucks. Look at his numbers at Charlotte last year -- awful. I can't believe some looked at him as a possible replacement for Jenks. He isn't even a big-league pitcher, let alone a big-league closer.

As for Pierre, I'm not sold on the move. At least the Dodgers are eating most of the money, and KW gave up next to nothing to get him. We'll see.

guillensdisciple
12-15-2009, 01:02 PM
How is this not a good pick up? This guy is an absolute steal and if given a full seasons play can post great numbers.

Keep on moving Kenny, I really like where you are going with this team.

asindc
12-15-2009, 01:04 PM
In many cases fiscal responsibility leads to on field success. Or would you prefer the Sox sign every star they can get their hands on to albatross contracts just so they're big time players in free agency?

Or in other words, have KW do what Hendry does on the other side of town? No thank you.

dwalteroo
12-15-2009, 01:06 PM
I like this move a lot.

Dodger fan reactions: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=436323

soxinem1
12-15-2009, 01:10 PM
Ah, yes - I forgot the Sox' annual Fiscal Responsibility Championship that goes up in City Hall next to the Cubs' Attendance Championship.

Chicago Baseball!!!

I prefer to call it the 'Get The Most Value For Your (Trading Partner's) Dollar Award'.

Marqhead
12-15-2009, 01:12 PM
Ah, yes - I forgot the Sox' annual Fiscal Responsibility Championship that goes up in City Hall next to the Cubs' Attendance Championship.

Chicago Baseball!!!

Whether it's true or not the Sox always act like they don't have enough money to spend. As long as this is the organizational philosophy going forward, I'd rather they save money where they can so they can spend it in other areas. Unfortunately it's just something we as fans have to deal with.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-15-2009, 01:15 PM
Getting Pierre to leadoff is about the best one could hope for at this point, since the Sox don't have a lot of money to spend. They gave up nothing in terms of prospects and have bought two years' time to get someone like Jordan Danks to develop or find a replacement for Pierre by 2011.

GoGoCrede
12-15-2009, 01:16 PM
I like this deal. Although not as much as I like the WSI threads after a deal like this is made. The wailing, the moaning, the bickering. :smile:

tstrike2000
12-15-2009, 01:17 PM
As for Pierre, I'm not sold on the move. At least the Dodgers are eating most of the money, and KW gave up next to nothing to get him. We'll see.

Agreed. One good stint with LA last year doesn't make up for all the time following '03 when he's been pretty unremarkable. If he stays unremarkable, no surprise, but of course we hope he adds a lot of contributions.

guillensdisciple
12-15-2009, 01:17 PM
Whether it's true or not the Sox always act like they don't have enough money to spend. As long as this is the organizational philosophy going forward, I'd rather they save money where they can so they can spend it in other areas. Unfortunately it's just something we as fans have to deal with.


Isn't our payroll well over a 100 millions right now?

Kenny is being financially smart, but a lot of that we have a budget stuff could just be a facade. We have made a lot of smart moves, but I think the White Sox prefer to build and pay from within.


Damn, I can not wait to see how this staring rotation pans out. Also, with a reliable lead- off guy who also is good at defense, the White Sox have just filled up two very problematic holes.

With a .350 obp, and 50 or so steals I expect this year to see a spike in Gordon's, Quentin's, and Paulies numbers.

dwalteroo
12-15-2009, 01:18 PM
Whether it's true or not the Sox always act like they don't have enough money to spend. As long as this is the organizational philosophy going forward, I'd rather they save money where they can so they can spend it in other areas. Unfortunately it's just something we as fans have to deal with.

I think this just makes good business sense. It's like buying a car - you don't show up driving a Mercedes if you want to low-ball the dealership. It puts other teams on notice that we "can't" spend, and sets expectations lower. I hear you though as a fan - it does get frustrating to hear because from that perspective it seems like management isn't going to go all out. I just don't think it's true.

Noneck
12-15-2009, 01:18 PM
Although not as much as I like the WSI threads after a deal like this is made. The wailing, the moaning, the bickering. :smile:

No really much of that on this one.

thedudeabides
12-15-2009, 01:18 PM
Link and Ely are not decent pitching prospects. In all likelyhood, they will each max out as the 11th guy of most pitching staffs.

Agreed. They are nothing to miss. It's the Sox cleaning out the system of their old philosophy of safe pitchers with low end stuff. Ely is a righty who throws a mid 80's fastball, with a changup as his best pitch, and no breaking pitch to speak of. Link has regressed. No big deal.

Of course, Phil Rogers thinks the Sox got ripped off because they gave up Ely. :tongue:

That guy loses more credibility every time he writes an article. And he is in charge of our talent evaluation for Baseball America. Money well spent by BA.

Rogers (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/12/ely-would-be-a-high-price-for-pierre.html)

guillensdisciple
12-15-2009, 01:19 PM
Agreed. One good stint with LA last year doesn't make up for all the time following '03 when he's been pretty unremarkable. If he stays unremarkable, no surprise, but of course we hope he adds a lot of contributions.


Here, just look at his numbers:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6550

his only mistake was going to the Cubs.

GoGoCrede
12-15-2009, 01:19 PM
No really much of that on this one.

I know. I've been let down thus far (Actually it's rather refreshing).

thomas35forever
12-15-2009, 01:21 PM
Yes! No more worrying about the leadoff spot! And I've got a good feeling he'll be better than Pods.:cool::bandance:

Marqhead
12-15-2009, 01:23 PM
Isn't our payroll well over a 100 millions right now?

Kenny is being financially smart, but a lot of that we have a budget stuff could just be a facade. We have made a lot of smart moves, but I think the White Sox prefer to build and pay from within.



I have little problem with where the payroll is at right now, and people seem to forget that we took on huge contracts last year (Peavy and Rios!) just because they weren't free agents.

I think this just makes good business sense. It's like buying a car - you don't show up driving a Mercedes if you want to low-ball the dealership. It puts other teams on notice that we "can't" spend, and sets expectations lower. I hear you though as a fan - it does get frustrating to hear because from that perspective it seems like management isn't going to go all out. I just don't think it's true.

There are a lot of people much more frustrated than myself with this perception of the White Sox -- I don't think it's true either. They have been in the top half of teams in term of payrolls, and KW continues to bring in big names via trades. I like this move and I have a lot of faith in KW when it comes to things like this. I understand why many don't, but I'm not one of them.

NardiWasHere
12-15-2009, 01:28 PM
I don't understand...

Why are people calling a team with a 100 million dollar payroll cheap a season after they acquired two huge contracts around the trade deadline?

Why are people concerned about minor league depth when for the next few years most positions on the team will be filled? 3/5 infield positions are locked up for the time being (Alexei, Beckham, Teahen) and 2/3 outfielders who aren't going anywhere (CQ and Rios). Meanwhile, 4/5 of the starting staff is locked in for a two year window with the potential to be special.

That leaves Konerko, AJ, and Pierre as the only three regulars who are either ending their contract soon or old. AJ and Pierre have guys behind them in the minor leagues and I'm not worried about replacing Konerko.

I like this move. KW filled a hole without giving anything up and got $ back. One more bat and this team should be set.

g0g0
12-15-2009, 01:33 PM
Hellz ya! Sox need another .300 hitter. A good year for Pods is basically what Juan averages. Add that to the money saved and it's a great move by Kenny!

dickallen15
12-15-2009, 01:37 PM
I don't understand...

Why are people calling a team with a 100 million dollar payroll cheap a season after they acquired two huge contracts around the trade deadline?

Why are people concerned about minor league depth when for the next few years most positions on the team will be filled? 3/5 infield positions are locked up for the time being (Alexei, Beckham, Teahen) and 2/3 outfielders who aren't going anywhere (CQ and Rios). Meanwhile, 4/5 of the starting staff is locked in for a two year window with the potential to be special.

That leaves Konerko, AJ, and Pierre as the only three regulars who are either ending their contract soon or old. AJ and Pierre have guys behind them in the minor leagues and I'm not worried about replacing Konerko.

I like this move. KW filled a hole without giving anything up and got $ back. One more bat and this team should be set.

The problem with the White Sox current roster is they are counting on a whole lot of guys to be better than they have been in a while. Pierre had a nice year in LA but has a pretty low OBP the 3 or 4 years before that. Changing leagues and a year older, its definitely not a lock he can duplicate his numbers of last year. Rios has had 2 off years in a row and is owed $60 million. Quentin has been injured each of the past 3 years, they may not all be linked in anyway, but there is a pattern of injury. Teahan has been bad and his UZR rating which many on this board take seriously, has him ranked in the bottom 5 of defensive 3B last season. Offensively, he has been a strikeout machine low OBP not very many homers guy. Andruw Jones last 3 seasons he's hitting barely .200. Omar Vizquel is 43 years old. Now, one or two or three of these guys might be able to turn back the clock, but all of them doing it is beyond a longshot. This team still needs offense. Pierre will probably be better than Pods in 2010, but probably won't match Pods' 2009 numbers. People forget Dye hit over .300 with an OPS over .900 the first half of 2009. Thome was pretty productive and even with Pods doing what he did, the offense was extremely short. I know they will have a couple more months of Beckham. I know Rios is better than he played when the Sox got him, but how much is a question. But there will be a ton of question marks. As sick as some were of White Sox homers, they still need to add a few.

spawn
12-15-2009, 01:38 PM
I don't understand...

Why are people calling a team with a 100 million dollar payroll cheap a season after they acquired two huge contracts around the trade deadline?

Why are people concerned about minor league depth when for the next few years most positions on the team will be filled? 3/5 infield positions are locked up for the time being (Alexei, Beckham, Teahen) and 2/3 outfielders who aren't going anywhere (CQ and Rios). Meanwhile, 4/5 of the starting staff is locked in for a two year window with the potential to be special.

That leaves Konerko, AJ, and Pierre as the only three regulars who are either ending their contract soon or old. AJ and Pierre have guys behind them in the minor leagues and I'm not worried about replacing Konerko.

I like this move. KW filled a hole without giving anything up and got $ back. One more bat and this team should be set.
Stop making sense. It's beneath you.

chaotic8512
12-15-2009, 01:38 PM
Love the move. Here's hoping Pierre can put together a 50-60 steal season and a .350+ OBP.

One piece away from having a solid offense. I'm on board with Thome or Delgado, though I would really love to see us pick up Nick Johnson somehow only if the medical staff deems him healthy. I think everyone's in agreement that it has to be a lefty power bat, and those three are seemingly the best options out there by a wide margin.

VeeckAsInWreck
12-15-2009, 01:39 PM
I like this move. KW filled a hole without giving anything up and got $ back. One more bat and this team should be set.

Hellz ya! Sox need another .300 hitter. A good year for Pods is basically what Juan averages. Add that to the money saved and it's a great move by Kenny!

Agreed.

We have a leadoff hitter who Ozzie won a ring with in Florida, who is costing us around the same if not less than Scotty Pods was.

With the money saved, KW can go get us a power stick.

VeeckAsInWreck
12-15-2009, 01:40 PM
Love the move. One piece away from having a solid offense. I'm on board with Thome or Delgado, though I would really love to see us pick up Nick Johnson somehow only if the medical staff deems him healthy. I think everyone's in agreement that it has to be a lefty power bat, and those three are seemingly the best options out there by a wide margin.

Nick Johnson really isn't a power bat. I wouldn't be too upset if we got Adam Dunn or someone of his ilk.

chaotic8512
12-15-2009, 01:42 PM
Nick Johnson really isn't a power bat. I wouldn't be too upset if we got Adam Dunn or someone of his ilk.

Yeah, I guess not. But I'm much in favor of the .400+ career OBP through 2500+ ABs. That'd more than make up for his having less power.

WhiteSox5187
12-15-2009, 01:44 PM
I like the element of speed that Pierre brings and he's a nice contact hitter, but are we getting the Pierre who put up an OBP of .350 or more or the Juan Pierre with an OBP of around .330? His SB% is about the same as Pods, I think he's a year younger though and his more consistently healthy. Either way he's not too expensive at the very least.

LoveYourSuit
12-15-2009, 01:44 PM
Solid move by KW. Just get me a thumper in the middle of the order and I think we are all set.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 01:46 PM
Nick Johnson really isn't a power bat. I wouldn't be too upset if we got Adam Dunn or someone of his ilk.

I had forgotten all about Dunn. I would love him as a DH. I wonder what it would take to acquire him, as he only has 1 year left on his contract. The Nationals desperately need more young talent to fill out the farm.

cws05champ
12-15-2009, 01:47 PM
What about Nady for RF to move TCQ to DH?
I think what everyone fails to recognize is that it is a transition to full time DH from playing the field everyday. Some guys struggle going to DH and I think Carlos would be one of those guys. Carlos beats himself up (literally, and mentally) when he doesn't hit well, and if he doesn't go out in the field he will just sit there in the clubhouse stewing over it until his next AB.

IMO I want Carlos nowhere near DH on a regular basis. If he does it once a week that is different. He is 28 yrs old...not 35.

TheOldRoman
12-15-2009, 01:48 PM
I don't understand...

Why are people calling a team with a 100 million dollar payroll cheap a season after they acquired two huge contracts around the trade deadline?

Why are people concerned about minor league depth when for the next few years most positions on the team will be filled? 3/5 infield positions are locked up for the time being (Alexei, Beckham, Teahen) and 2/3 outfielders who aren't going anywhere (CQ and Rios). Meanwhile, 4/5 of the starting staff is locked in for a two year window with the potential to be special.

That leaves Konerko, AJ, and Pierre as the only three regulars who are either ending their contract soon or old. AJ and Pierre have guys behind them in the minor leagues and I'm not worried about replacing Konerko.

I like this move. KW filled a hole without giving anything up and got $ back. One more bat and this team should be set.It has been said that the Sox could trade scraps for Pujols and some fans would be pissed. It goes deeper than that. There is a sizeable group of fans who know more than the GM and owner (in their own mind). They always point back to their offseason/preseason posts to show just how smart they were in predicting moves that turned out poorly, but never acknowledge they were wrong about moves that were successful. People still throw out Erstad in arguements here, but I don't think we saw people who whined about KW "picking up another failed prospect" admit they were wrong about Quentin. Oh, wait! He was injured last year, so maybe they can still be right about him!

The Sox are cheap to them no matter how much they spend. The Sox' $90 million payroll last year was spun as "slashing the payroll by more than every other team but the Padres". The Sox never spend money, but when they do spend money, it was a horrible waste. But at least we have an endless suply of delightfully smarmy "can't spend a dollar when you have 50 cent" quips.

voodoochile
12-15-2009, 01:53 PM
I prefer to call it the 'Get The Most Value For Your (Trading Partner's) Dollar Award'.

yes, because KW's traded away so many players who have absolutely gone on to stellar careers in the majors. All those sure fire can't miss All-Stars simply counting the years until the HOF calls to let them know of their induction...

thomas35forever
12-15-2009, 01:55 PM
I had forgotten all about Dunn. I would love him as a DH. I wonder what it would take to acquire him, as he only has 1 year left on his contract. The Nationals desperately need more young talent to fill out the farm.
I was a little surprised he signed with the Nationals to begin with. That franchise is going nowhere fast. With the Sox, he'd at least have a chance to be on a winner. Plus, if he's got an expiring contract, I wouldn't be opposed to acquiring him. If Kenny did it, that could be huge.

Marqhead
12-15-2009, 01:56 PM
yes, because KW's traded away so many players who have absolutely gone on to stellar careers in the majors. All those sure fire can't miss All-Stars simply counting the years until the HOF calls to let them know of their induction...

Unless I read wrong I thought his post was in praise of KW's moves. :scratch:

voodoochile
12-15-2009, 01:57 PM
Unless I read wrong I thought his post was in praise of KW's moves. :scratch:

Sounded like he was saying KW consciously makes sure his trading partners get the most value he can give them. Maybe I am reading it wrong...

WhiteSox5187
12-15-2009, 01:59 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, but am I the only one who is worried about Pierre's OBP? His career OBP is .348 which is good, but it's not like he consistently puts up an OBP of .350, or at least not of late.

VeeckAsInWreck
12-15-2009, 02:01 PM
I was a little surprised he signed with the Nationals to begin with. That franchise is going nowhere fast. With the Sox, he'd at least have a chance to be on a winner. Plus, if he's got an expiring contract, I wouldn't be opposed to acquiring him. If Kenny did it, that could be huge.

Make it happen Kenny.....

Dunn is a monster at the plate and if we had Pierre, Beckham and maybe Rios in front of him, he could be huge. I'm just sayin'

Marqhead
12-15-2009, 02:02 PM
Sounded like he was saying KW consciously makes sure his trading partners get the most value he can give them. Maybe I am reading it wrong...

I read it the other way, as in we are getting the most for our trading partner's dollar.

Either way, the obsession with prospects is overblown.

Sargeant79
12-15-2009, 02:03 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, but am I the only one who is worried about Pierre's OBP? His career OBP is .348 which is good, but it's not like he consistently puts up an OBP of .350, or at least not of late.

He may very well not put up an OBP much higher than .335 or so this year. A couple things to consider though...

1) Good chance Podsednik (or even Crisp) would have put up the exact same OBP. Possibly lower even.

2) Pierre very rarely strikes out. He doesn't walk much either, hence the low OBP relative to his batting average. But he gets tons of hits and puts the ball in play, meaning that a lot of his outs are at least productive in terms of moving runners over and bunting.

EDIT: 1,000th post. Woo-hoo!

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 02:05 PM
Make it happen Kenny.....

Dunn is a monster at the plate and if we had Pierre, Beckham and maybe Rios in front of him, he could be huge. I'm just sayin'

It seems like a perfect fit, except I'm sure there would be salary issues with Dunn being owed around 12 million this year.

oeo
12-15-2009, 02:05 PM
Not a bad move considering we didn't really give up much, and we only have to pay $8 million of Pierre's remaining salary. I guess we'll see how he works in the leadoff spot...then again we haven't had a good leadoff hitter in awhile, don't know why I always expect different.

I hope they still plan on getting a right fielder and move Quentin to DH. Our defense will be pretty solid if that happens.

soxinem1
12-15-2009, 02:07 PM
Sounded like he was saying KW consciously makes sure his trading partners get the most value he can give them. Maybe I am reading it wrong...

I wrote it in response to Kittle's jibes about money.

While I will always believe Reinsdorf is the cheapest big-market owner in MLB, KW's ability to get $$$$ out of trading partners is unmatched.

WhiteSox5187
12-15-2009, 02:08 PM
He may very well not put up an OBP much higher than .335 or so this year. A couple things to consider though...

1) Good chance Podsednik (or even Crisp) would have put up the exact same OBP. Possibly lower even.

2) Pierre very rarely strikes out. He doesn't walk much either, hence the low OBP relative to his batting average. But he gets tons of hits and puts the ball in play, meaning that a lot of his outs are at least productive in terms of moving runners over and bunting.

EDIT: 1,000th post. Woo-hoo!

Well...if he's leading off though he won't really need to put the ball in play so much, would he? The OBP factor here is the only thing that worries me, but he has shown that he can put up an OBP of .350 or more before, plus in '08 OC had an OBP of .334 and he worked out well for us. And Pierre steals a lot more bases...though at 33 I think his days of stealing 50+ bases are over. But if he can steal 30-40 he would be very effective.

voodoochile
12-15-2009, 02:11 PM
I wrote it in response to Kittle's jibes about money.

While I will always believe Reinsdorf is the cheapest big-market owner in MLB, KW's ability to get $$$$ out of trading partners is unmatched.

Okay. I disgaree with your statement about JR too. He's been spending consistently for several years now.

Hitmen77
12-15-2009, 02:30 PM
We give up Ely and Link. I win. (Though still not confirmed.)

http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/6702106304

By the way, we got Link from San Diego in exchange for Mackowiak.

Sargeant79
12-15-2009, 02:32 PM
Well...if he's leading off though he won't really need to put the ball in play so much, would he? The OBP factor here is the only thing that worries me, but he has shown that he can put up an OBP of .350 or more before, plus in '08 OC had an OBP of .334 and he worked out well for us. And Pierre steals a lot more bases...though at 33 I think his days of stealing 50+ bases are over. But if he can steal 30-40 he would be very effective.

That entirely depends on how well the bottom part of our batting order is able to get on base.

soxfanatlanta
12-15-2009, 02:33 PM
I feel much better about the leadoff hitter now!

cws05champ
12-15-2009, 02:34 PM
When the Sox where those baggy throw back uniforms, Juan Pierre will look like the wicked witch of the West after she melted. You'll just be able to see his uni and that's it.

doublem23
12-15-2009, 02:34 PM
Not at all excited by this trade. And, we give up two decent pitching prospects?

Ely and Link are decent prospects?

doublem23
12-15-2009, 02:35 PM
Ah, yes - I forgot the Sox' annual Fiscal Responsibility Championship that goes up in City Hall next to the Cubs' Attendance Championship.

Chicago Baseball!!!

The same "fiscally responsible" Sox who committed tens of millions of dollars to Jake Peavy and Alex Rios during the season?

KMcMahon817
12-15-2009, 02:38 PM
Dye & Thome or Pierre & Teahan. hmmmmm

How about Dye, Podsednik, Thome or Pierre, Thome, Teahen


I'll go with the latter.

russ99
12-15-2009, 02:38 PM
Isn't our payroll well over a 100 millions right now?

Kenny is being financially smart, but a lot of that we have a budget stuff could just be a facade. We have made a lot of smart moves, but I think the White Sox prefer to build and pay from within.

Damn, I can not wait to see how this staring rotation pans out. Also, with a reliable lead- off guy who also is good at defense, the White Sox have just filled up two very problematic holes.

With a .350 obp, and 50 or so steals I expect this year to see a spike in Gordon's, Quentin's, and Paulies numbers.

Yup, we're in the neighborhood of $105M right now, but I think Kenny's going to try and lock in the arb guys (Danks and Quentin) to long-term deals with lower first years to make up the difference, which is what he did with Teahen.

The difference between this year and previous years as far as crying poor is that Kenny identified needs and is actively going out and trying to fill those needs with experienced major leaguers.

I still think this year's activity and Jerry's willingness to bend the budget (if we're in fact over budget, which we really don't know) is primarily due to the failure of last year's prospect-driven approach.

wulfy
12-15-2009, 02:41 PM
Dunn stikes out a ton, but walks a ton too.

Get it done, Kenny!

Rohan
12-15-2009, 02:42 PM
Bah... Can't you wait till after my finals to wheel and deal, Kenny? Either I miss out on study time or I miss out on all of the fun off season action.

I guess I'll have to choose studying. No more WSI until at least later tonight.

GAsoxfan
12-15-2009, 02:45 PM
I had forgotten all about Dunn. I would love him as a DH. I wonder what it would take to acquire him, as he only has 1 year left on his contract. The Nationals desperately need more young talent to fill out the farm.

Probably quite a bit since he'll be a Type A free agent. Personally, I'd rather sign someone like Delgado or Johnson and then possibly go after Dunn next off-season with Konerko's money.

VeeckAsInWreck
12-15-2009, 02:46 PM
Dunn stikes out a ton, but walks a ton too.

He's that presence we need in the middle of the lineup. We need a masher who can scare the hell out of a pitcher.

DirtySox
12-15-2009, 02:46 PM
SoxNet says that Kenny might be close to another deal.

Take it with a huge grain of salt of course.

With the leadoff spot filled, Kenny has turned his attention to the middle of the order and we are told he's close on another deal.

https://twitter.com/SoxNet/status/6702852749

Waysouthsider
12-15-2009, 02:46 PM
Just saw Jackass Phil Rogers' whine about losing Ely......the BP projections I've looked at show Ely as 80% likely to be a scrub....

.......lest anyone think Phil has any clue at all about what he's talking about.....:scratch:

JohnTucker0814
12-15-2009, 02:46 PM
So right now our 25 man roster looks like this:

C - Pierzynski
1B - Konerko
2B - Beckham
3B - Teahen
SS - Ramirez
LF - Pierre
CF - Rios
RF - Quentin
2b/3b/ss - Nix
1b/of - Kotsay
of - Jones
2b/3b/ss - Vizquel

Long - Hudson
Mop-up - Torrez/Williams ???
Short - Linebrink
Short - Pena
Set-up - Putz
Set-up - Thornton
Closer - Jenks
1 - Peavy
2 - Buerhle
3 - Floyd
4 - Danks
5 - Garcia


Looks like we have room for 1 more player. Also, looks like Nix could be on the outside looking in because we need a backup at C. Hopefully that is a power bat to be used in the DH/OF/1B positions!!!!

Wish list:
(unrealistic)
1. A. Gonzalez
2. P. Fielder
3. A. Dunn

(realistic)
1. A. Beltre (play 3B, Teahen to RF/DH w/ Quentin) improves defense ten fold...
2. D. Uggla (defense at 2B is bad, so he would be more likely a full time DH0
3. T. Flowers (take the risk of using your back-up C at DH. If A.J. gets injured you sacrifice the DH for that ONE game, small price to pay IMO)

DaveFeelsRight
12-15-2009, 02:54 PM
on paper, our team is a hell of alot better than most in the division. let's see if we can actually execute. i like the signing if he puts up the numbers he did when manny got suspended.

doublem23
12-15-2009, 02:57 PM
Just saw Jackass Phil Rogers' whine about losing Ely......the BP projections I've looked at show Ely as 80% likely to be a scrub....

.......lest anyone think Phil has any clue at all about what he's talking about.....:scratch:

The Sox lost this deal because they gave up 2 players to get 1, so that's a -1 score using his system.

fram40
12-15-2009, 02:59 PM
Well...if he's leading off though he won't really need to put the ball in play so much, would he? The OBP factor here is the only thing that worries me, but he has shown that he can put up an OBP of .350 or more before, plus in '08 OC had an OBP of .334 and he worked out well for us. And Pierre steals a lot more bases...though at 33 I think his days of stealing 50+ bases are over. But if he can steal 30-40 he would be very effective.

many posters are mentioning OPBs of .350 vs .330. If Pierre gets 650 ABs, the difference is only 13 more times on base. Over a six month season, that is one more time on base every two weeks. Is that really a big deal?

The more I read and ponder this trade, the more I like this trade, and the more I like the Sox chances in 2010;

rowand33
12-15-2009, 03:04 PM
on paper, our team is a hell of alot better than most in the division. let's see if we can actually execute. i like the signing if he puts up the numbers he did when manny got suspended.


It's unreasonable to expect an OPS of over .900 from Juan Pierre (which is how well he was playing when Manny was suspended).

If Juan has a .750 OPS over the course of the season and steals 30-40 bags, I will be happy with his play. I will probably be happy if he has a .700 OPS as long as .340-.350 of that is OBP.

Looking at his numbers, I think his 2007 season is a decent benchmark for what our expectation of him should be. Hopefully, he will be a little better than that.

TDog
12-15-2009, 03:06 PM
Well...if he's leading off though he won't really need to put the ball in play so much, would he? The OBP factor here is the only thing that worries me, but he has shown that he can put up an OBP of .350 or more before, plus in '08 OC had an OBP of .334 and he worked out well for us. And Pierre steals a lot more bases...though at 33 I think his days of stealing 50+ bases are over. But if he can steal 30-40 he would be very effective.

I haven't read the entire thread, so excuse me if my points have been made.

As the leadoff hitter in the lineup, Pierre wouldn't be leading off every inning in which he comes up to bat, of course. While statistics tell you where you have been and not necessarily where you are going, last year Pierre was the inning leadoff hitter in less than 30 percent of his plate appearances. (Maybe things will be different with the White Sox. Scott Podsednik led off innings in nearly 40 percent of his plate appearances in 2009) While Pierre had an overall on-base percentage of .365, as the first hitter up in an inning, he reached base at a .400 clip. He struck out at a slightly higher rate -- 6.4 percent of the time leading off innings and 6.35 percent overall.

I'm not excited about the fact that Pierre led the NL in sacrifice bunts a couple of seasons ago. Guillen is too fond of the sacrifice, and sacrificing in most situations diminishes a team's chance of scoring. On the other hand, if Guillen is going to insist on bunting, at least he has another hitter who can bunt.

It wasn't that long ago that Pierre was supposed to put the Cubs over the top. Maybe the way he was treated in Chicage the first time around (when he didn't even play that badly) will inspire him to better things the second time around.

slavko
12-15-2009, 03:16 PM
How about Jermaine Dye? :duck:

Can't forget that second half last year. Try someone else.

yes, because KW's traded away so many players who have absolutely gone on to stellar careers in the majors. All those sure fire can't miss All-Stars simply counting the years until the HOF calls to let them know of their induction...

Sweeney was about the best, IMO, and that's not a huge deal.

It seems like a perfect fit, except I'm sure there would be salary issues with Dunn being owed around 12 million this year.

And that's why it won't happen. But he is a perfect fit you could get for prospects.

Why are none of you jokers who were giggling over Putz's name not doing the same over Pierre's?