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NLaloosh
12-05-2009, 08:55 AM
If Kenny made no other moves than adding Pods wouldn't this team be fine - meaning playoff caliber?

I know that the Sox want to improve their defense but if they don't sign a regular DH then they can rotate and keep Pods or Quentin as the DH much of the time.

The OF/DH spots can be filled very well defensively with Rios, Kotsay, Jones, Quentin and Pods.

The infield backups are Omar and Nix. I still think they should keep Nix because he is the only speed off the bench and they should have a second infield backup.

The pitching staff is excellent as is with Hudson taking over Dotel's role.

dickallen15
12-05-2009, 09:07 AM
I wouldn't call them playoff-calibur, although given the demise of Cleveland, and the apparent direction Detroit is taking, its not out of the realm of possibility they could edge MN assuming everything goes right, but if Pods returns to the Pods that was expected offensively, this team would be below average IMO, and considering his defense and a potential Quentin move to RF, the OF defense isn't exactly upgraded from the end of 2009 and that's not going to help the pitching. Teahan at 3rd with Beckham learning 2B, I don't think makes a better defensive IF. The bullpen is still a problem. The DH would be downgraded from Thome. They may contend right around .500 because they get to play some real lousy teams a lot, but they wouldn't generate much excitement.

When you acquire Mark Teahan and say your defense has been solidified...................

I think there will be several more moves before the games count. Maybe even a shocker or two.

voodoochile
12-05-2009, 10:15 AM
It would all come down to whether TCQ, Rios, Beckham and Teahen. They neeed those guys to produce but without adding one more guaranteed big bat, those guys simply have to step up and Q in particular cannot miss half the season with injuries.

As it is they are important, but if the Sox somehow managed to land Gonzalez (for example) it would take the pressure off the offense.

russ99
12-05-2009, 10:52 AM
No, we need someone to lead off (like Pods), and a DH/RF preferably a lefty. Otherwise Kotsay/Jones/Vizquel is our DH, which would only be OK if Andruw returns to form, a big risk.

I still wonder if Kenny will bring in someone like Beltre to play 3B and lead off and move Teahen to RF.

Also, another RH arm in the bulllpen who won't flame out in late innings.

Domeshot17
12-05-2009, 11:43 AM
No. The only way its a playoff team is if 85 wins gets you there.

Pods is the right add for several reasons. By all accounts minus 1 guy, the clubhouse likes him. Probably will eventually meet the Sox in the middle on a 2 year deal. If his new training program keeps him healthy, he could be a solid lead off man. Certainly is better than Jordan Danks at this stage.

However, There is a massive need for a power LH bat in the DH position. Without you, you are literally banking everything that all of these go right in order to win:

Quentin MUST return to his MVP form. Anything less than 280 35 homers 100 Rbis doesn't do it
Rios MUST bounce back to be a 295 20 homer 40 double 90 rbi 80 run guy
Konerko MUST not decline anymore, and stay 270 25 85
Beckham CANNOT have a sophomore slump and must hit 40 doubles 20 rbis 840 + OPS
Alexei can't have a year like last year, he has to return to the 20 homer guy we saw his rookie season.

All big IFs.

PalehosePlanet
12-05-2009, 11:48 AM
I think this off-season will play out a lot like last year. Right now the FA's are asking for ridicilous money (e.g. Beltre 10 mil per, JD wants 3/36, etc...) but with few teams willing to spend, their asking prices will come down dramatically in 4-6 weeks.

Unlike last year, this time Kenny has to pounce on somebody when he is still available at way below market price. There is no doubt in my mind that there will be another Abreu or Hudson type deal out there again this winter.

Noneck
12-05-2009, 11:53 AM
What I do know is with Figgins signing this early, Pods worth has just gone up. If he was too expensive before, he is now for sure out of Sox money range.

And looking at what is on their roster, there is no one that can lead off in 2010. Going into a season without a lead off man is a disaster in the making.

And Coco's worth has just increased also, I think it was a snooze you lose situation.

gr8mexico
12-05-2009, 11:56 AM
If the Sox just add Podsednik to the roster then you can forget about the Sox making the playoffs. The Sox should do what ever it takes to get
Adrian Gonzalez. Even if it means trading away Alexei Ramirez for Adrian.

1.Coco Crisp CF (FA)
2.Gordon Beckham SS
3.Adrian Gonzalez 1B
4.Carlos Quentin LF
5.Paul Konerko DH
6.A.J C
7.Alex Rios RF
8.Mark Teahen 3B
9.Felipe Lopez 2B (FA)

Signing Coco Crisp and Felipe Lopez would improve the teams defense big time.

Gammons Peter
12-05-2009, 12:04 PM
No. The only way its a playoff team is if 85 wins gets you there.

Pods is the right add for several reasons. By all accounts minus 1 guy, the clubhouse likes him. Probably will eventually meet the Sox in the middle on a 2 year deal. If his new training program keeps him healthy, he could be a solid lead off man. Certainly is better than Jordan Danks at this stage.

However, There is a massive need for a power LH bat in the DH position. Without you, you are literally banking everything that all of these go right in order to win:

Quentin MUST return to his MVP form. Anything less than 280 35 homers 100 Rbis doesn't do it
Rios MUST bounce back to be a 295 20 homer 40 double 90 rbi 80 run guy
Konerko MUST not decline anymore, and stay 270 25 85
Beckham CANNOT have a sophomore slump and must hit 40 doubles 20 rbis 840 + OPS
Alexei can't have a year like last year, he has to return to the 20 homer guy we saw his rookie season.

All big IFs.

Who ??

NLaloosh
12-05-2009, 12:38 PM
Some good points have been made by some people.

Some things I feel pretty confident about are:

1. The Sox aren't getting Adrian Gonzalez because he won't be traded. I don't think the Padres really want to move him after trading Peavy. I think they'll wait till next off season unless they are blown away.

2. The Sox definitely want a prototypical leadoff man. That means Pods, Crisp, Upton, Cameron or someone will be acquired. Most likely this guy will be an outfielder but because of Teahen's versatility he could be a 2B or 3B.

3. There's no reason to think that Konerko, Rios, Ramirez, Quentin, Beckham and Teahen won't produce as they should. There's very little risk here.

4. If Kenny decides to keep Jenks, there's not a lot left to do with this team and not a lot of money left to do it anyway.

5. I do agree that there will be some good bargains out there by February 1st if Kenny is patient enough to wait.

6. I do believe that with this pitching staff as now constructed and the addition of Pods, this team could win 90 games. What teams have a better rotation than Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle and Garcia? Isn't that what wins? They won 79 last year with Contreras and Colon in the rotation. I definitely think this team is 11 wins better now.

Domeshot17
12-05-2009, 12:44 PM
Some good points are made here.

Some things I feel pretty confident about are:

1. The Sox aren't getting Adrian Gonzalez because he won't be traded. I don't think the Padres really want to move him after trading Peavy. I think they'll wait till next off season unless they are blown away.

2. The Sox definitely want a prototypical leadoff man. That means Pods, Crisp, Upton, Cameron or someone will be acquired. Most likely this guy will be an outfielder but because of Teahen's versatility he could be a 2B or 3B.

3. There's no reason to think that Konerko, Rios, Ramirez, Quentin, Beckham and Teahen won't produce as they should. There's very little risk here.

4. If Kenny decides to keep Jenks, there's not a lot left to do with this team and not a lot of money left to do it anyway.

5. I do agree that there will be some good bargains out there by February 1st if Kenny is patient enough to wait.

6. I do believe that with this pitching staff as now constructed and the addition of Pods, this team could win 90 games. What teams have a better rotation than Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle and Garcia? Isn't that what wins? They won 79 last year with Contreras and Colon in the rotation. I definitely think this team is 11 wins better now.

Was this meant as a joke- Konerko has been declining and isn't great anymore. Quentin has been as inconsistent as it gets, Rios was TERRIBLE last year, Beckham impressed, Ramirez was pretty down and Teahen is literally all projections at this point. Its as Risky as it gets.

NLaloosh
12-05-2009, 01:01 PM
Was this meant as a joke- Konerko has been declining and isn't great anymore. Quentin has been as inconsistent as it gets, Rios was TERRIBLE last year, Beckham impressed, Ramirez was pretty down and Teahen is literally all projections at this point. Its as Risky as it gets.

I think you're way off. Tha's about the most negative take one could come up with.

Konerko was the Sox most consistent hitter and he had a very solid season. No reason to think that he won't again.

Quentin will be healthy. The guy can hit. Will he have an MVP type season? No, I'm not counting on that but he should easily hit .260 + with 30+ home runs.

Rios will be fine. The guy had his first down season after what 5 good ones? He'll be fine.

The Sox have Beckham for an entire season. How many wins will that add alone? Beckham hasn't failed anywhere he's been. He'll be just as good if not better.

Ramirez season was very similar to his first so I don't know what you're talking about and he is definitely primed to have his best year at age 28 with two years in the bigs and the USA behind him, not changing positions and Omar Vizquel as a mentor and Beckham as his DP partner.

Teahen is going to surprise a lot of people on here with his defense at 3rd. He is a very solid third basemen and his offense will only get better playing for the White Sox and on a winner. Once again, a player at the right age poised to break out.

I said that there is very little risk here - not none because there is always some. But, the only player here with an injury risk is Quentin and the year before last he was the best player in the league so I'm ok with that.

The Sox will be good. Adding Jake Peavy alone should add a minimum of 6 wins. If they have Pods and Beckham on opening day instead of Wise and Fields how many wins does that add ?

Now add, Hudson, Garcia, Teahen, Rios, Vizquel, Kotsay and Jones - this team is definitely capable of winning 90 by merely adding Pods.

Thatguyoverthere
12-05-2009, 01:02 PM
Was this meant as a joke- Konerko has been declining and isn't great anymore. Quentin has been as inconsistent as it gets, Rios was TERRIBLE last year, Beckham impressed, Ramirez was pretty down and Teahen is literally all projections at this point. Its as Risky as it gets.Agreed, and if we can land a big left-handed power bat (I'm praying for Dunn at this point), then it would take a lot of pressure off these guys to perform and provide a much-needed mental lift. IF we get someone like Dunn, I don't think it'd be too unreasonable to expect 3 or 4 of those guys to produce to the numbers you laid out earlier.

Domeshot17
12-05-2009, 02:19 PM
I think you're way off. Tha's about the most negative take one could come up with.

Konerko was the Sox most consistent hitter and he had a very solid season. No reason to think that he won't again.

Quentin will be healthy. The guy can hit. Will he have an MVP type season? No, I'm not counting on that but he should easily hit .260 + with 30+ home runs.

Rios will be fine. The guy had his first down season after what 5 good ones? He'll be fine.

The Sox have Beckham for an entire season. How many wins will that add alone? Beckham hasn't failed anywhere he's been. He'll be just as good if not better.

Ramirez season was very similar to his first so I don't know what you're talking about and he is definitely primed to have his best year at age 28 with two years in the bigs and the USA behind him, not changing positions and Omar Vizquel as a mentor and Beckham as his DP partner.

Teahen is going to surprise a lot of people on here with his defense at 3rd. He is a very solid third basemen and his offense will only get better playing for the White Sox and on a winner. Once again, a player at the right age poised to break out.

I said that there is very little risk here - not none because there is always some. But, the only player here with an injury risk is Quentin and the year before last he was the best player in the league so I'm ok with that.

The Sox will be good. Adding Jake Peavy alone should add a minimum of 6 wins. If they have Pods and Beckham on opening day instead of Wise and Fields how many wins does that add ?

Now add, Hudson, Garcia, Teahen, Rios, Vizquel, Kotsay and Jones - this team is definitely capable of winning 90 by merely adding Pods.

Maybe if this was 2002.

I am not saying all that can't happen, but to say its little risk is just letting the love get in your way. Konerko's days as a 40 homer premier slugger are gone. I didn't say he wasn't good, but he can't be the best hitter on the team. Quentin is the wild card, but he has a history of injuries and 1 great year. When on the field last year he flashed power but a poor batting average.

In terms of Beckham, I am not willing to hinge everything on a 2nd year player. He isn't Evan Longoria good were he can be the best player on a team. He is a very good player, he could be an all star one day, but right now he isn't mvp good. Asking him to be is far too much.

With Ramirez, if you think losing 100 points on his slugging is not a big deal, I can't argue. And the changing positions thing holds no water to me. This wasn't Beckham learning a new spot. This was Alexei moving to the position he wanted and felt best at.

Teahen again, is projection. We project he will be a good defensive 3b without much evidence other than hes been about average in the past. We project his power will rise in the cell with a better order around him. We project he could be a solid 40 double gap hitter. Its the best we can do, but it could also not work.

And the Risk of Rios not bouncing back is beyond words. The riskiest part of that guys is his attitude. This isn't a player who slumped. This is by all accounts a player who used his great ability to land a mega deal, and took a year off. Hopefully Ozzie gets through, but its never a good sign when someone is let go for free on Waivers. Toronto isn't BLEEDING for money like some teams. You can inspire, and maybe we can, but we can't make him care about baseball.

I think this offense, with a solid DH, could do enough to win 95 games. But Pods is 1 piece, not thee piece. I agree 100%, Dunn is the best fit, with Delgado or Matsui a good plan B.

oeo
12-05-2009, 02:43 PM
Was this meant as a joke- Konerko has been declining and isn't great anymore. Quentin has been as inconsistent as it gets, Rios was TERRIBLE last year, Beckham impressed, Ramirez was pretty down and Teahen is literally all projections at this point. Its as Risky as it gets.

Konerko has never been "great." His 2009 was so similar to his career numbers, it's eery (.277/.353/.489 vs. .277/.352/.491 in his career). We also haven't seen enough of Quentin to consider him inconsistent. He certainly was not inconsistent in 2008, he was consistently good. What he needs to do is just stay healthy, and I think I'm the only one that thinks his injury problems have just been a fluke.

Frater Perdurabo
12-05-2009, 02:45 PM
Let's look at the lineup. At this stage of his career, Paulie is a #6 hitter. Quentin is probably best suited to be a #5 slugger, or maybe a cleanup hitter. Alexei, Teahen and AJ are bottom third guys. Beckham fits as a #2 hitter. Any lineup with any of these guys leading off probably lacks speed. Any lineup with any of these guys hitting third probably lacks both high average and power. A lineup built around these guys, with a run-of-the-mill DH and RF/LF added to the mix can be a complementary part of a division winning team, but that team would need a dominant rotation (check), strong bullpen (maybe) and an airtight defense (nope). So, can the Sox find a corner OF and a corner OF/DH type, one to lead off and one to hit in the middle of the lineup? It's possible, but more difficult given their payroll constraints.

Brian26
12-05-2009, 03:04 PM
Konerko has never been "great."

He's never been Pujols or A-Rod because of his lower average, but in 2004 and 2005 he was up there with anybody in baseball.

NLaloosh
12-05-2009, 03:54 PM
Well, I'm not saying that adding Pods gives this team the best offense in baseball. But, I'm saying that this lineup with this bench makes the offense good enough to help this pitching staff get to the playoffs.

Think about this : Pods, Teahen, Quentin, Ramirez, A.J.. Beckham, Rios, Konerko all could easily hit .280 or better.

When is the last time the Sox could say that? There really isn't a hole anywhere. There may not be a lot of studs but there are no duds.

It would be wonderful if the Sox could sign Matsui too and I suppose there is a chance they could. But, I think they'd be fine anyway.

It would be nice to add another quality bullpen arm but I think a lot of teams would love to have Jenks, Thornton, Hudson, Pena, Carrasco, Williams and Nunez. That should be sufficient although it shouldn't be too difficult to improve it further.

Anyway, there's a lot of time left but I have to say that I'm happy with everything Kenny's done so far and I feel that merely signing Pods makes this team good enough.

PalehosePlanet
12-05-2009, 03:54 PM
Maybe if this was 2002.

I am not saying all that can't happen, but to say its little risk is just letting the love get in your way. Konerko's days as a 40 homer premier slugger are gone. I didn't say he wasn't good, but he can't be the best hitter on the team. Quentin is the wild card, but he has a history of injuries and 1 great year. When on the field last year he flashed power but a poor batting average.

In terms of Beckham, I am not willing to hinge everything on a 2nd year player. He isn't Evan Longoria good were he can be the best player on a team. He is a very good player, he could be an all star one day, but right now he isn't mvp good. Asking him to be is far too much.

With Ramirez, if you think losing 100 points on his slugging is not a big deal, I can't argue. And the changing positions thing holds no water to me. This wasn't Beckham learning a new spot. This was Alexei moving to the position he wanted and felt best at.

Teahen again, is projection. We project he will be a good defensive 3b without much evidence other than hes been about average in the past. We project his power will rise in the cell with a better order around him. We project he could be a solid 40 double gap hitter. Its the best we can do, but it could also not work.

And the Risk of Rios not bouncing back is beyond words. The riskiest part of that guys is his attitude. This isn't a player who slumped. This is by all accounts a player who used his great ability to land a mega deal, and took a year off. Hopefully Ozzie gets through, but its never a good sign when someone is let go for free on Waivers. Toronto isn't BLEEDING for money like some teams. You can inspire, and maybe we can, but we can't make him care about baseball.

I think this offense, with a solid DH, could do enough to win 95 games. But Pods is 1 piece, not thee piece. I agree 100%, Dunn is the best fit, with Delgado or Matsui a good plan B.

Really? How is it exactly that you know all of this? He was terrible for a two month stretch. Every player sooner or later --- if he plays long enough --- is terrible for a two month stretch or hell of a lot longer. If you think every player that goes through a rough stretch sucks then your version of The Hall of Fame would have zero players in it.

I guess when Jeff Bagwell started a season in the mid '90's hitting .160 while nearing July the Astros should have simply cut him. As we should have done after Buehrle posted a 6+ ERA in the second half of '07.

To accuse a guy of stealing money and not giving a **** is reckless. You, I or anyone else on this board has no clue as to why he hit .198 over the last two months of the season.

Domeshot17
12-05-2009, 03:58 PM
Really? How is it exactly that you know all of this? He was terrible for a two month stretch. Every player sooner or later --- if he plays long enough --- is terrible for a two month stretch or hell of a lot longer. If you think every player that goes through a rough stretch sucks then your version of The Hall of Fame would have zero players in it.

I guess when Jeff Bagwell started a season in the mid '90's hitting .160 while nearing July the Astros should have simply cut him. As we should have done after Buehrle posted a 6+ ERA in the second half of '07.

To accuse a guy of stealing money and not giving a **** is reckless. You, I or anyone else on this board has no clue as to why he hit .198 over the last two months of the season.

Rios being lazy, unliked by his teammates in Toronto, and being a paycheck player has been well documented on this site and media outlets for a while.

For OEO, Konero's career numbers for the most part are brought down by his 2 dog**** years. Again, He was solid, but to expect more than 25 homers and 85 or so RBIs is asking a lot. When it comes to Carlos, I love his potential, but in 1200 career At Bats hes been a 250 ish hitter with good power. He has it in him, but hes been anything but consistent. Baseball References links him to guys like Willy Mo Pena, Luke Scott, Chris Duncan and Nelson Cruz. Now if he goes the route of Cruz, great. But I can't say I feel great about him being our cleanup hitter.

I also would have to say, for every player who could hit .280 we have, theres a chance none of them, or 1 of them does. The only real LOCK to hit .280 is AJ.

Rdy2PlayBall
12-05-2009, 04:21 PM
I have NO idea why almost ALL of you think that our current team sucks. I say yes. I think the addition of Pods will get us into the playoffs. But will probably end up being like 2008 and we will lose right away. We need a leadoff hitter, and a consistent player for DH (or OF, and we move Quentin/Kotsay/etc to DH) if we want to make a push in the playoffs and actually CLINCH the division.

A lot of you seem to forget our amazing rotation, and also automatically give; Beckham a sophomore slump, Rios a new identity of suckness, Quentin a season ending injury, and Bobby Jenks a 5 SV season. If we all think like this, no one will be happy with whoever we get this offseason.

Then again, I seem to always be overly opptimistic about the Sox. But this time it feels right. :redneck


Think about this : Pods, Teahen, Quentin, Ramirez, A.J.. Beckham, Rios, Konerko all could easily hit .280 or better.
When is the last time the Sox could say that? There really isn't a hole anywhere. There may not be a lot of studs but there are no duds.Awesome post! =)

dickallen15
12-05-2009, 04:54 PM
I have NO idea why almost ALL of you think that our current team sucks. I say yes. I think the addition of Pods will get us into the playoffs. But will probably end up being like 2008 and we will lose right away. We need a leadoff hitter, and a consistent player for DH (or OF, and we move Quentin/Kotsay/etc to DH) if we want to make a push in the playoffs and actually CLINCH the division.

A lot of you seem to forget our amazing rotation, and also automatically give; Beckham a sophomore slump, Rios a new identity of suckness, Quentin a season ending injury, and Bobby Jenks a 5 SV season. If we all think like this, no one will be happy with whoever we get this offseason.

Then again, I seem to always be overly opptimistic about the Sox. But this time it feels right. :redneck

Awesome post! =)
Not really. I just wouldn't expect Pods to put up the same numbers and I doubt he will get better defensively. Beckham should be fine, but will probably have an adjustment to 2B. Will AJ hit .300 again? The Quentin health question is legit because he has been hurt each of the past 3 seasons. Rios was bad enough to get waived and even worse when he came to the Sox. He should be better, but probably not worth his contract better. Teahan doesn't excite anyone. The bullpen lost Dotel and was pretty brutal last year. The rotation is nice, but not without questions. Floyd limped home last year. Will he be 100%? Danks had an circulation issue, will that make a comeback? Can Buerhle put his poor second half behind him? Can Freddy Garcia hold up for more than a handful of starts? Peavy is an ace, but he's not going to have the 1.35 ERA he had last season, and the team wasn't very good at the end of the season. Teahan, Jones and Vizquel don't exactly give the Sox 10 or so more victories.

Rdy2PlayBall
12-05-2009, 05:07 PM
Not really. I just wouldn't expect Pods to put up the same numbers and I doubt he will get better defensively. Beckham should be fine, but will probably have an adjustment to 2B. Will AJ hit .300 again? The Quentin health question is legit because he has been hurt each of the past 3 seasons. Rios was bad enough to get waived and even worse when he came to the Sox. He should be better, but probably not worth his contract better. Teahan doesn't excite anyone. The bullpen lost Dotel and was pretty brutal last year. The rotation is nice, but not without questions. Floyd limped home last year. Will he be 100%? Danks had an circulation issue, will that make a comeback? Can Buerhle put his poor second half behind him? Can Freddy Garcia hold up for more than a handful of starts? Peavy is an ace, but he's not going to have the 1.35 ERA he had last season, and the team wasn't very good at the end of the season. Teahan, Jones and Vizquel don't exactly give the Sox 10 or so more victories.Again, if you think that negatively about every questionable thing... we are always going to look bad. I think Rios with get 75+ RBIs and bat near .280. Quentin will not get injured, but get something like 90RBIS .275... Idk, I just think we are going to be good. I don't look at everything negativly. :redneck

dickallen15
12-05-2009, 05:17 PM
Again, if you think that negatively about every questionable thing... we are always going to look bad. I think Rios with get 75+ RBIs and bat near .280. Quentin will not get injured, but get something like 90RBIS .275... Idk, I just think we are going to be good. I don't look at everything negativly. :redneck

I don't look at everything negatively, but I'm just trying to be honest. The team wasn't very good last year. Peavy will be around an entire season, but that alone, IMO, isn't enough to push the team over the top. Minnesota has some pretty good talent themselves. There is going to be more than re-signing Pods or getting someone else to lead off anyway.

The rotation is sweet, but that doesn't guarantee anything. In 1983 the Sox had Hoyt, Dotson, Bannister and Burns. In 1984 the added Tom Seaver who won 15 or 16 games. The team was awful. In 2006 the Sox had an untouchable Contreras, Buerhle, Garcia, Garland and Vazquez and came in 3rd. There are still glaring holes that need to be filled even if Pods came back.

Rdy2PlayBall
12-05-2009, 10:48 PM
I don't look at everything negatively, but I'm just trying to be honest. The team wasn't very good last year. Peavy will be around an entire season, but that alone, IMO, isn't enough to push the team over the top. Minnesota has some pretty good talent themselves. There is going to be more than re-signing Pods or getting someone else to lead off anyway.

The rotation is sweet, but that doesn't guarantee anything. In 1983 the Sox had Hoyt, Dotson, Bannister and Burns. In 1984 the added Tom Seaver who won 15 or 16 games. The team was awful. In 2006 the Sox had an untouchable Contreras, Buerhle, Garcia, Garland and Vazquez and came in 3rd. There are still glaring holes that need to be filled even if Pods came back.The team not having Contreras, not having Wise/BA, not having Bartolo, and not having Fields/Betamitt alone makes us better. Rios, Peavy, and Beckham for a FULL SEASON is going to make us a lot better.

We still need a piece to replace super-slump Dye, and Thome. All I am saying that if we keep Pods, we should get at least 89 wins. If we get Coco or Pods, and another DH/OF guy... I see 95 wins. :redface:

Our rotation this year looks A LOT better than the one going into 2006... idk. Offseason discussion always makes me mad. We seemed to have a more positive offseason last year than this year... and we didn't nothing but horribleness last year. :scratch:

NLaloosh
12-05-2009, 11:32 PM
Just wondering....has anyone heard that the Sox now have an ace named Jake Peavy?

Did anyone on here watch the last month of the season?

Peavy and Garcia/Hudson vs. Contreras and Colon/Richard = 10-15 more wins.

No innings played by DeWayne Wise, Josh Fields,Wilson Betemit, Brent Lillibridge and Brian Anderson and replaced by Alex Rios, Mark Teahen, Andruw Jones and Omar Vizquel = 5-7 wins.

Noneck
12-05-2009, 11:52 PM
No innings played by DeWayne Wise, Josh Fields,Wilson Betemit, Brent Lillibridge and Brian Anderson and replaced by Alex Rios, Mark Teahen, Andruw Jones and Omar Vizquel = 5-7 wins.

To be fair, lets stick Pods, Thome and Dye in that list.

Those 3 produced 57 Hr's and 203 RBI's, You are saying that Rios, Teahen, Jones and Vizquel will produce enough to get 5-7 more wins? Thats a bold prediction.

Mohoney
12-06-2009, 03:44 AM
It would be nice to add another quality bullpen arm but I think a lot of teams would love to have Jenks, Thornton, Hudson, Pena, Carrasco, Williams and Nunez. That should be sufficient although it shouldn't be too difficult to improve it further.

I'm assuming Scott Linebrink is going to be on the team, so you're going to have to remove either Hudson or Nunez from your projection.

Frater Perdurabo
12-06-2009, 08:13 AM
To be fair, lets stick Pods, Thome and Dye in that list.

Those 3 produced 57 Hr's and 203 RBI's, You are saying that Rios, Teahen, Jones and Vizquel will produce enough to get 5-7 more wins? Thats a bold prediction.

A full season of Peavy might generate 5-7 more wins.

With five reliable starters, a less-exposed bullpen also will blow fewer leads. That might be worth another 3-5 wins.

Tragg
12-06-2009, 09:16 AM
If Kenny made no other moves than adding Pods wouldn't this team be fine - meaning playoff caliber?
No. The weakness of last year's team, defense, would be worse.
Quentin in RF would be ridiculous. I read this "he's a natural right fielder" stuff - and then I watch him play and he's 1 step above Carlos Lee.


So Peavy +worse defense does not a playoff team make. And if Pods doesn't replicate 2009 offensively, a distinct possibility, it's even worse.
Sox need a right fielder.

dickallen15
12-06-2009, 09:42 AM
Just wondering....has anyone heard that the Sox now have an ace named Jake Peavy?

Did anyone on here watch the last month of the season?

Peavy and Garcia/Hudson vs. Contreras and Colon/Richard = 10-15 more wins.

No innings played by DeWayne Wise, Josh Fields,Wilson Betemit, Brent Lillibridge and Brian Anderson and replaced by Alex Rios, Mark Teahen, Andruw Jones and Omar Vizquel = 5-7 wins.
Jake Peavy made his White Sox debut Sept 19. The Sox won. They then lost 4 straight. Freddy Garcia holding up a full season is a longshot. Thinking those 2 alone add 10 wins, is really optimistic.

The Sox were 15-15 in Sept./ Oct., and 7-7 after Peavy started pitching. I don't see what is so optimistic about that.

voodoochile
12-06-2009, 11:12 AM
No. The weakness of last year's team, defense, would be worse.
Quentin in RF would be ridiculous. I read this "he's a natural right fielder" stuff - and then I watch him play and he's 1 step above Carlos Lee.


So Peavy +worse defense does not a playoff team make. And if Pods doesn't replicate 2009 offensively, a distinct possibility, it's even worse.
Sox need a right fielder.

Completely and totally disagree. Even injured last year he had more range than Lee ever had.

Noneck
12-06-2009, 11:17 AM
A full season of Peavy might generate 5-7 more wins.

With five reliable starters, a less-exposed bullpen also will blow fewer leads. That might be worth another 3-5 wins.

I have no doubts Peavy will bring the Sox more wins.

I also hope that the Big 4 will be ridden more and go deep into games which will expose the pen less.

But the offense and defense still leaves a lot to be desired.

asindc
12-06-2009, 11:50 AM
No. The weakness of last year's team, defense, would be worse.
Quentin in RF would be ridiculous. I read this "he's a natural right fielder" stuff - and then I watch him play and he's 1 step above Carlos Lee.


So Peavy +worse defense does not a playoff team make. And if Pods doesn't replicate 2009 offensively, a distinct possibility, it's even worse.
Sox need a right fielder.

Is there someone else on the team named Quentin that I'm not aware of? The Quentin I have seen play for the Sox the past two years is clearly a better defensive outfielder than Carlos Lee ever was. Not saying much there, true, but it still is an insult to the Quentin I have seen play to unfavorably compare him defensively to Lee. What number does the Quentin you are talking about wear?

russ99
12-06-2009, 02:29 PM
And the Risk of Rios not bouncing back is beyond words. The riskiest part of that guys is his attitude. This isn't a player who slumped. This is by all accounts a player who used his great ability to land a mega deal, and took a year off. Hopefully Ozzie gets through, but its never a good sign when someone is let go for free on Waivers. Toronto isn't BLEEDING for money like some teams. You can inspire, and maybe we can, but we can't make him care about baseball.



I disagree with this assessment. After Rios got his big deal, expectations were placed on him, expectations of a type of player he's not. He'll never be a 50 HR man and never steal 50 bases. He's a .280 hitter not a .330 hitter. His one solid year just sharpened these expectations.

Then when he struggled this year, the Toronto fans and the press piled on him, his hitting coach turned on him and his manager gave up on him. Rios didn't take the year off, he lost all confidence in himself.

By the time the Sox got him he was so messed up mentally and mechanically, we got the results you saw.

Rios need these 5 months off and a fresh start this spring with the Sox. I have little doubt he'll produce to his normal levels, especially with Ozzie as his coach, since Ozzie's all about keeping things loose.

I'll go as far as saying I have more confidence in Rios having a good season than Quentin being healthy...

DumpJerry
12-06-2009, 02:51 PM
Just add Pods and watch him get picked off third.......

NLaloosh
12-06-2009, 02:54 PM
Just add Pods and watch him get picked off third.......

Or, you could watch him drive in a lot of key runs like he did last year- something few leadoff hitters can do.

Daver
12-06-2009, 03:07 PM
If Kenny made no other moves than adding Pods wouldn't this team be fine - meaning playoff caliber?


The White Sox were a bad defensive team last season, and have gotten worse instead of better so far this offseason, based simply on that I don't foresee them being a playoff team next season based on the roster as it sits right now.

Frater Perdurabo
12-06-2009, 03:20 PM
The White Sox were a bad defensive team last season, and have gotten worse instead of better so far this offseason, based simply on that I don't foresee them being a playoff team next season based on the roster as it sits right now.

Do you think the Sox defense would be improved by promoting Jordan Danks and playing him in RF or CF (and batting ninth)?

If so, do you think Danks' defense would outweigh his likely rookie-level production at the plate?

Tragg
12-06-2009, 03:40 PM
Completely and totally disagree. Even injured last year he had more range than Lee ever had.
I did say above step above.
But we'll just have to disagree that Quentin would make a quality right fielder.

And we'll jut have to disagree on the prudence of investing all these resources in pitching, only to back it up with clown defense.

chunk
12-06-2009, 03:46 PM
The White Sox were a bad defensive team last season, and have gotten worse instead of better so far this offseason, based simply on that I don't foresee them being a playoff team next season based on the roster as it sits right now.


I dunno, Dye is easily one of the worst defensive outfielders in the game, so him not playing out there should help.

Still, as it stands, this team is not playoff caliber, Pods or No Pods. I prefer no Pods though.

Daver
12-06-2009, 04:03 PM
Do you think the Sox defense would be improved by promoting Jordan Danks and playing him in RF or CF (and batting ninth)?

If so, do you think Danks' defense would outweigh his likely rookie-level production at the plate?

If he is playing CF and putting Rios in right they are worse, as Danks won't cover the ground Rios does.

Brian26
12-06-2009, 04:09 PM
I dunno, Dye is easily one of the worst defensive outfielders in the game, so him not playing out there should help.

Dye's declining, but serviceable, skills in RF last year paled in comparison to the problems we had in LF, CF, 3B and SS.

I don't agree that he was one of the worst outfielders in the game.

chunk
12-06-2009, 04:14 PM
Last year Dye had the 2nd worst UZR of all MLB RFs, better than only Brad Hawpe.

Brian26
12-06-2009, 04:25 PM
Last year Dye had the 2nd worst UZR of all MLB RFs, better than only Brad Hawpe.

Where does Matt Stairs rank on that list?

What's his UZR compared to Dye's, just out of curiosity?

DirtySox
12-06-2009, 04:34 PM
Matt Stairs only played something like 40 innings in the outfield last year.

Here (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2009&month=0) is where you can find the rankings.

Daver
12-06-2009, 04:35 PM
Last year Dye had the 2nd worst UZR of all MLB RFs, better than only Brad Hawpe.

So what.

cards press box
12-06-2009, 04:38 PM
The White Sox were a bad defensive team last season, and have gotten worse instead of better so far this offseason, based simply on that I don't foresee them being a playoff team next season based on the roster as it sits right now.

It's hard to say whether the Sox are a playoff contender until they complete their offseason moves. I expect them to add an outfielder, a DH (who may also be an outfielder or first baseman), a backup catcher and some bullpen help. As of right now, anyway, the Sox do have the best starting rotation in the division and that's a good start.

I believe that the Sox defense will improve next year, if for no other reason than the Sox will have more stability up the middle than they did in 2009. Alexei Ramirez and Gordon Beckham should benefit from their playing time last year. What's more, the Sox will have a full season of Alex Rios in CF and Ramirez playing his second full season at SS. In the second half of 2009, Ramirez played pretty well defensively. Along with the Sox, I think that 2B will ultimately be Beckham's best position and I think he will be a good second baseman. As for Mark Teahan, it is certainly possible that the Royals' habit of constantly changing his position hurt his defense. If the Sox just put him at 3B (as they said they would do), Teahan might well play better defense.

Brian26
12-06-2009, 04:43 PM
Matt Stairs only played something like 40 innings in the outfield last year.

That doesn't answer the question though.

If you're going to use rankings, you need to qualify them.

chunk
12-06-2009, 04:44 PM
So what.


So he's a terrible defensive outfielder. Not serviceable, not passable.

DirtySox
12-06-2009, 04:47 PM
That doesn't answer the question though.

If you're going to use rankings, you need to qualify them.

And?

Go to FanGraphs, search Matt Stairs, click the fielding tab, and investigate.

Brian26
12-06-2009, 04:48 PM
And?

Go to FanGraphs, search Matt Stairs, click the fielding tab.

You don't believe Matt Stairs is that significantly better of a RF than Dye, do you?

Daver
12-06-2009, 04:49 PM
So he's a terrible defensive outfielder. Not serviceable, not passable.

Based on what?

chunk
12-06-2009, 04:54 PM
Based on a commonly accepted standard of measuring fielding ability.

Brian26
12-06-2009, 04:55 PM
I can use this statistic in a less-flawed way by telling you that Dye ranked 14th in baseball for RF's who played at least 1000 innings last year (i.e. good enough to generally start 140 games). That's middle-of-the-pack serviceable.

If you're going to tell me Matt Stairs crushes Dye defensively because he only logged 51 innings and didn't play enough to look any worse, you're not qualifying the stat.

tm1119
12-06-2009, 04:56 PM
If we want to squeak into the playoffs like we did in '07 then sure. But if we want to win a championship, or even compete for it, we need to add a a big bat and maybe a few smaller pieces as well. I think we have too good of a pitching staff right now, and with PK and AJ both being FA's next year we could be even more of a question mark going into next season. Spending the money and making a run for it now makes sense, but I doubt management actually does it.

Daver
12-06-2009, 05:00 PM
Based on a commonly accepted standard of measuring fielding ability.

Accepted by whom?

Propellerheads don't count either.

chunk
12-06-2009, 05:15 PM
I don't see why people who care about stats somehow have a less authentic or legitimate opinion on whether or not a player has poor ability in a particular area of the game. Please show me your evidence that Dye is not a terrible defender.

I can use this statistic in a less-flawed way by telling you that Dye ranked 14th in baseball for RF's who played at least 1000 innings last year (i.e. good enough to generally start 140 games). That's middle-of-the-pack serviceable.

If you're going to tell me Matt Stairs crushes Dye defensively because he only logged 51 innings and didn't play enough to look any worse, you're not qualifying the stat.

14th out of 15 is middle of the pack?

Even if we lower the qualifying minimum innings to 50, Dye is the comes in at 82nd best, Stairs is at 87th.

Daver
12-06-2009, 05:22 PM
I don't see why people who care about stats somehow have a less authentic or legitimate opinion on whether or not a player has poor ability in a particular area of the game.Because you are using numbers that have no basis in fact or reality to form your opinion.

DumpJerry
12-06-2009, 07:29 PM
If we want to squeak into the playoffs like we did in '07 then sure.
I have a different recollection of how the '07 season ended (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2007.shtml). But, maybe it's just me.

tm1119
12-06-2009, 09:01 PM
I have a different recollection of how the '07 season ended (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2007.shtml). But, maybe it's just me.

Ha. Oops. My bad, meant '08. Wow cant believe its about to be 2010 already.

WhiteSox5187
12-06-2009, 09:06 PM
Accepted by whom?

Propellerheads don't count either.

I don't like stats but this narrow mindness is becoming annoying here. JD looks like a horse right before it's put down in RF. Yes he still has his moments but he is at best a middle of the road right fieder. You can find stats to back it up OR you can just watch the games.

DonnieDarko
12-06-2009, 09:22 PM
Dye can really only hit now, but do we want to take another chance that he'll fall into a prolonged slump again? KW thought "No", and I have to agree with him.

NLaloosh
12-06-2009, 09:45 PM
The White Sox were a bad defensive team last season, and have gotten worse instead of better so far this offseason, based simply on that I don't foresee them being a playoff team next season based on the roster as it sits right now.

I completely disagree with this statement as well. They are a far better defensive team right now than at the start of last season.

1. Alex Rios in CF
2. Beckham at 2B is better than Getz
3. Teahen at 3B is better than Fields /Beckham last year
4. Jermaine Dye is gone from RF
5. Alexei Ramirez is likely to be improved
6. Omar Vizquel
7. Andruw Jones
8. Mark Kotsay

The more that I think about it the more I think that your post is the most wrong post that I've seen in a long time.

tm1119
12-06-2009, 09:56 PM
I completely disagree with this statement as well. They are a far better defensive team right now than at the start of last season.

1. Alex Rios in CF
2. Beckham at 2B is better than Getz
3. Teahen at 3B is better than Fields /Beckham last year
4. Jermaine Dye is gone from RF
5. Alexei Ramirez is likely to be improved
6. Omar Vizquel
7. Andruw Jones
8. Mark Kotsay

The more that I think about it the more I think that your post is the most wrong post that I've seen in a long time.

2. What evidence do you have for this? Have you seen Beckham play 2B?
3. Not at all. Teahen has been outright bad at 3B in his career.
4. So you know who KW is going to be starting RF? No one knows who our starting RF is right now so it cant possibly be an upgrade over Dye.
5. Thats a pretty bold assumption.
7 & 8. Both are bad defensive players at this point in their careers(except at 1B)

doublem23
12-06-2009, 09:57 PM
I don't like stats but this narrow mindness is becoming annoying here. JD looks like a horse right before it's put down in RF. Yes he still has his moments but he is at best a middle of the road right fieder. You can find stats to back it up OR you can just watch the games.

FWIW, defensive statistics are a bunch of horse****.

DumpJerry
12-06-2009, 10:01 PM
2. Beckham at 2B is better than Getz.
:cleo
I see I have some competition.....

doublem23
12-06-2009, 10:02 PM
:cleo
I see I have some competition.....

Do you really think Bacon won't be better at 2B than Getz?

WhiteSox5187
12-06-2009, 10:11 PM
FWIW, defensive statistics are a bunch of horse****.

They are, but just watching JD in RF suggests he is not exactly Ichiro out there. He still makes the occasional good play but watching him run after a ball is painful.

areilly
12-06-2009, 10:18 PM
If Kenny made no other moves than adding Pods wouldn't this team be fine - meaning playoff caliber?


Do they hold a best-of-five series for third place? Is that how this works now?

Rotation: Solid
Bullpen: Questionable
Offense: Mediocre
Defense: Questionable


Totally. Minimum eight-peat.

Playoffs. Ha!

JermaineDye05
12-06-2009, 10:18 PM
I strongly believe that this team needs another bat that can produce "at least" 20+ HR and a lead off guy.

tm1119
12-06-2009, 10:24 PM
FWIW, defensive statistics are a bunch of horse****.

UZR is certainly flawed, and should never be used as the end all be all for judging a player on D, but to call it "horse****" is just ignorant. There is definitely some merit to it, and tends to be fairly accurate for the most part.

Daver
12-06-2009, 10:29 PM
UZR is certainly flawed, and should never be used as the end all be all for judging a player on D, but to call it "horse****" is just ignorant. There is definitely some merit to it, and tends to be fairly accurate for the most part.

No, it really is pure crap, you can't quantify defensive play numerically.

tm1119
12-06-2009, 10:35 PM
No, it really is pure crap, you can't quantify defensive play numerically.

To be quite honest, Im awful at math and counldnt begin to explain what goes into it. Just do an experiment. Pick a player that you feel you know pretty well and then check his UZR. More often than not it will match up is all Im saying. So in my opinion there has to be something right about it.

Daver
12-06-2009, 10:37 PM
I completely disagree with this statement as well. They are a far better defensive team right now than at the start of last season.

1. Alex Rios in CF
2. Beckham at 2B is better than Getz
3. Teahen at 3B is better than Fields /Beckham last year
4. Jermaine Dye is gone from RF
5. Alexei Ramirez is likely to be improved
6. Omar Vizquel
7. Andruw Jones
8. Mark Kotsay

The more that I think about it the more I think that your post is the most wrong post that I've seen in a long time.

1. Alex Rios might be in right, as the Sox have no RFer.
2. Beckham has never played second, and based on what I have seen will not play it better than Nix, let alone Getz.
3. Teahen plays third slightly better than Josh Fields does.
4. And has yet to be replaced.
5. Perhaps.
6. I have no idea why he was signed.
7. Jones is not a right fielder and neither is Quentin.
8. Mark Kotsay is a plus defender at exactly 0 positions.

Rdy2PlayBall
12-06-2009, 10:59 PM
1. Alex Rios might be in right, as the Sox have no RFer.
2. Beckham has never played second, and based on what I have seen will not play it better than Nix, let alone Getz.
3. Teahen plays third slightly better than Josh Fields does.
4. And has yet to be replaced.
5. Perhaps.
6. I have no idea why he was signed.
7. Jones is not a right fielder and neither is Quentin.
8. Mark Kotsay is a plus defender at exactly 0 positions.
1. I doubt Rios will be in right, unless we get a leaf-off center fielder.
3. Teahen is WAY better defensively than Fields IMO
6. Great fielder, and great utility guy.
7. Pretty sure Jones is a very good outfielder
8. Doesn't Kotsay have the one of most outfield assists in recent years or something?
---nothing really wrong with the others

I think their D is a lot better. Not amazing, but better. A few new additions might kill it, or save it.

DumpJerry
12-06-2009, 11:04 PM
Do you really think Bacon won't be better at 2B than Getz?
I don't know. Since nobody has seen him play Second, I'm just wondering what insight the poster has into the situation.

My gut tells me he will be better since Beckham has shown to have good baseball instincts and was a fairly quick learner at Third.

doublem23
12-06-2009, 11:06 PM
I don't know. Since nobody has seen him play Second, I'm just wondering what insight the poster has into the situation.

My gut tells me he will be better since Beckham has shown to have good baseball instincts and was a fairly quick learner at Third.

Probably saw Getz play a full season at 2B.

JermaineDye05
12-06-2009, 11:07 PM
1. Alex Rios might be in right, as the Sox have no RFer.
2. Beckham has never played second, and based on what I have seen will not play it better than Nix, let alone Getz.
3. Teahen plays third slightly better than Josh Fields does.
4. And has yet to be replaced.
5. Perhaps.
6. I have no idea why he was signed.
7. Jones is not a right fielder and neither is Quentin.
8. Mark Kotsay is a plus defender at exactly 0 positions.

I beg to differ. Carlos played majority of his time in Right with Arizona, I believe he came through their system as a RF.

In 223 games in LF with the Sox, Carlos has complied a .978 FP as opposed to a .988 FP in 119 games in RF with Arizona.

tm1119
12-06-2009, 11:09 PM
1. I doubt Rios will be in right, unless we get a leaf-off center fielder.
3. Teahen is WAY better defensively than Fields IMO
6. Great fielder, and great utility guy.
7. Pretty sure Jones is a very good outfielder
8. Doesn't Kotsay have the one of most outfield assists in recent years or something?

I think their D is a lot better. Not amazing, but better.

3. He is better, but being better than Josh Fields at defense is certainly not prize worthy. Teahen has been well below average at 3B in his career.
6. That will play all of 5 innings a weeK? Not going to big impact on this team.
7. Yeah he was a very good OF about 50lbs ago. C'mon have you seen the guy lately? Hes flat out chubby at this point. Not to mention hes 32 and has been injured on and off for the past 4 or 5 years.
8. Really? OF assists? Kotsay is not a good fielder, certainly not in the OF.

Rdy2PlayBall
12-06-2009, 11:12 PM
3. He is better, but being better than Josh Fields at defense is certainly not prize worthy. Teahen has been well below average at 3B in his career.
6. That will play all of 5 innings a weeK? Not going to big impact on this team.
7. Yeah he was a very good OF about 50lbs ago. C'mon have you seen the guy lately? Hes flat out chubby at this point. Not to mention hes 32 and has been injured on and off for the past 4 or 5 years.
8. Really? OF assists? Kotsay is not a good fielder, certainly not in the OF.Hey, assists are something. He seems to be our DH backup and 1B/OF backup... what more can we ask for?

tm1119
12-06-2009, 11:33 PM
Hey, assists are something. He seems to be our DH backup and 1B/OF backup... what more can we ask for?

Assists are purely circumstantial and not a stat to base a players defense on. And theres nothing wrong with Kotsay. I like him as a player on this team, but his defense is definitely not his strong suit at this point in his career.

Rdy2PlayBall
12-07-2009, 12:31 AM
Assists are purely circumstantial and not a stat to base a players defense on. And theres nothing wrong with Kotsay. I like him as a player on this team, but his defense is definitely not his strong suit at this point in his career.Meh. Beats Dye. So our RF defense looks good right about now compared to last year.

doublem23
12-07-2009, 12:51 AM
Meh. Beats Dye. So our RF defense looks good right about now compared to last year.

There's absolutely no way Kotsay beats Dye in RF defensively, especially since Kotsay wouldn't last more than a month playing everyday.

NLaloosh
12-07-2009, 10:28 AM
1. Alex Rios might be in right, as the Sox have no RFer.
2. Beckham has never played second, and based on what I have seen will not play it better than Nix, let alone Getz.
3. Teahen plays third slightly better than Josh Fields does.
4. And has yet to be replaced.
5. Perhaps.
6. I have no idea why he was signed.
7. Jones is not a right fielder and neither is Quentin.
8. Mark Kotsay is a plus defender at exactly 0 positions.

Are you just trying to ignore facts?

Beckham has played second base in the minors and he was fine. Teahen will be a clear improvement over last year's 3B.

You have no idea why Vizquel was signed ? Well, one reason is that he fielded flawlessly last year at SS, 3B and 2B - but I guess that would be no improvement for the White Sox?

Andruw Jones has played RF and LF and played them both very well. In fact, many baseball people believe that his defense is the best part of his game and that if he comes to camp in shape could still be an excellent defensive CFer.

Kotsay was always an excellent outfielder in both CF and RF and he's not that old. He can still play better than Dye and probably Quentin.

So, yes, the White Sox have clearly improved themselves defensively.

Craig Grebeck
12-07-2009, 11:31 AM
There's absolutely no way Kotsay beats Dye in RF defensively, especially since Kotsay wouldn't last more than a month playing everyday.
Kotsay is not moving in cement, so I'd imagine he'd have little trouble besting Dye in RF.

Pablo_Honey
12-07-2009, 12:09 PM
Are you just trying to ignore facts?

Beckham has played second base in the minors and he was fine. Teahen will be a clear improvement over last year's 3B.

You have no idea why Vizquel was signed ? Well, one reason is that he fielded flawlessly last year at SS, 3B and 2B - but I guess that would be no improvement for the White Sox?

Andruw Jones has played RF and LF and played them both very well. In fact, many baseball people believe that his defense is the best part of his game and that if he comes to camp in shape could still be an excellent defensive CFer.

Kotsay was always an excellent outfielder in both CF and RF and he's not that old. He can still play better than Dye and probably Quentin.

So, yes, the White Sox have clearly improved themselves defensively.

Yes, Beckham played second base in minors...except it was only for 4 games in one of which he made an error. Beckham's glove at second is definitely a big question mark right now.

Yes, Vizquel played well defensively last year...in 62 games that is. What are you going to do with the other 100 games he won't play in? Unless you believe Ozzie is crazy enough to find a way to start Vizquel everyday.

Hmm, I haven't watched Jones enough lately to judge his defense but IMO, I agree he's still above average defensively. He just may not be as rangey as he used to be. However, the whole "will get into shape" assumption rarely turns out to be true (Don't believe me? Colon and Jenks) And again, he's playing off the bench so his defense is a marginal upgrade. Same goes for Kotsay.

All in all, the defense is as big of a question mark as it was last year.