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doublem23
12-01-2009, 09:12 AM
Can't find anything other than the Wikipedia page, but the BBWAA's ballot for next summer's class has been released...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_balloting,_2010

In addition to Tim Raines and Harold Baines, who return from last year after receiving 5% of the vote, notable newcomers this year include Robin Ventura.

Only two candidates I think are shoe-ins for election are Roberto Alomar and Edgar Martinez, with Barry Lark leaning on the "in" side of the fence.

Marqhead
12-01-2009, 09:20 AM
Alomar is a no brainer. I hardly think Martinez is a shoo-in, but if he does get in, and I think he will it will pave the way for a lot of other DH types.

asindc
12-01-2009, 09:25 AM
Tim Raines should be in. Whether he will get in, however, seems to be a long shot.

salty99
12-01-2009, 10:24 AM
I don't think Edgar will get in, but Dawson might.

PennStater98r
12-01-2009, 10:26 AM
Edgar deserves to be there.

He retired with a .300/.400/.500 line. You can count on your digits how many people have done that.

wilburaga
12-01-2009, 11:00 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if nobody got in this year. I don't think any of the holdovers have enough support, though I think Raines' candidacy will pick up steam. And while Alomar will certainly be voted in soon, I think there are enough first ballot fusses amongst the voters to deny him entry on his first try, if only because of the spitting incident.

Larkin, I believe, will eventually get in. Edgar is another story. While anyone who knocks the Yankees out of the postseason deserves special consideration in my book (Maz), I think the anti-DH forces are stronger than they appear, and will doom Edgar's chances.

W

goofymsfan
12-01-2009, 11:43 AM
Whether or not people agree with the DH, it is a position and Edgar excelled at that position and helped define it. The award, after all, was named after him when he retired. While it's sad that he may not get in on his first try, he will get there eventually.

aryzner
12-01-2009, 11:54 AM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/slideshows/731/slideshow_73104/display_image.jpg

"You better let Baseball Superstar Fred McGriff in!"

Oblong
12-01-2009, 12:25 PM
The HOF must have changed their website. You used to be able to see past election results but after 5 minutes I couldn't find it.

I thought Blyleven would make it, to me is the most obvious guy not in. But I think he total went down last year so that doesn't bode well. I'll be interested to see how Edgar, Roberto, and Larkin fare. Wouldn't surprise me if nobody gets in this year.

Noneck
12-01-2009, 12:34 PM
I think Martinez getting in or not will indicate how fast Frank Thomas will get in. About 1/2 of his AB's were as a DH.

wilburaga
12-01-2009, 12:47 PM
The HOF must have changed their website. You used to be able to see past election results but after 5 minutes I couldn't find it.

I thought Blyleven would make it, to me is the most obvious guy not in. But I think he total went down last year so that doesn't bode well. I'll be interested to see how Edgar, Roberto, and Larkin fare. Wouldn't surprise me if nobody gets in this year.

Forgive me, Father, for I have lifted info from Wikipedia, and am repeating it as fact.

That said, according to Wiki, Blyleven's total went up marginally in 2009 from 336 votes (61.9%) to 338 (62.7%). I agree with you that Bert should be in, but I don't think it's going to happen.

W

MUsoxfan
12-01-2009, 01:17 PM
I thought Blyleven would make it, to me is the most obvious guy not in. But I think he total went down last year so that doesn't bode well.

I think he's killing himself with his Santo-like begging

downstairs
12-01-2009, 03:23 PM
I can see Almoar not getting in on the first ballot because of the goofy way these people vote, but he will next time around at least.

Beyond Alomar, this is a very weak class all around (old guys and new guys).

I get that Dawson and Blyleven were close last year, but I'm sorry I still consider them weak candidates.

I can see no one getting in.

MeteorsSox4367
12-01-2009, 04:09 PM
As for the new candidates, I'd like to know if Mike Jackson will wear a Sox hat when he gets in.

Kevin Appier? Mike Jackson? Todd Zeile? Seriously?

That said, I would like to see Robin Ventura get in, but that likely isn't going to happen.

tstrike2000
12-01-2009, 04:33 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/slideshows/731/slideshow_73104/display_image.jpg

(Obvious reading of cue card) "These are the baseball writers that don't get me results!"

soxinem1
12-01-2009, 06:38 PM
I think he's killing himself with his Santo-like begging

At least he has post-season experience and a World Series ring!!!:smile:

Brian26
12-01-2009, 08:15 PM
I get that Dawson and Blyleven were close last year, but I'm sorry I still consider them weak candidates.

I think Dawson has a better resume than Jim Rice.

BleacherBandit
12-01-2009, 08:25 PM
I think Dawson has a better resume than Jim Rice.

We shouldn't let Rice's admittance as an opportunity to lower the bar for entrance into the HOF.

eastchicagosoxfan
12-01-2009, 08:37 PM
I think Dawson has a better resume than Jim Rice.
Dave Parker's resume is the equal of Dawson's, and much better than Edgar Martinez's. Parker's drug years really hurt him. Robbie Alomar will get elected, but he's hardly a shoe-in in his first year.

my imaginary ballot:
Alomar
Parker
Dawson
Blyleven
Raines
Larkin?

ChiSoxGirl
12-01-2009, 09:24 PM
Can't find anything other than the Wikipedia page, but the BBWAA's ballot for next summer's class has been released...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_balloting,_2010

In addition to Tim Raines and Harold Baines, who return from last year after receiving 5% of the vote, notable newcomers this year include Robin Ventura.

Only two candidates I think are shoe-ins for election are Roberto Alomar and Edgar Martinez, with Barry Lark leaning on the "in" side of the fence.

:worship: I wish I had the power to vote my favorite player of all-time into the Hall!!!

Brian26
12-01-2009, 09:49 PM
Dave Parker's resume is the equal of Dawson's, and much better than Edgar Martinez's. Parker's drug years really hurt him. Robbie Alomar will get elected, but he's hardly a shoe-in in his first year.

I agree Alomar won't make it the first year, but he deserves to be in.

If I had a vote, I'd pick Blyleven and then Dawson for 2010.

Craig Grebeck
12-02-2009, 06:05 AM
Dave Parker's resume is the equal of Dawson's, and much better than Edgar Martinez's.
Stretch! Can you elaborate?

eastchicagosoxfan
12-02-2009, 07:22 AM
Parker won an MVP and was in the top three on three on other occasions. Martinez was in the top three once. Parker won three Gold Gloves. Martinez didn't win any. Martinez played 18 seasons, Parker played 19, and Parker had better career stats in almost every offensive category. From 1975-79, Parker was one of the top five-six players in the NL (Morgan, Schmidt, Rose, Garvey, Winfield). I don't think Martinez was ever one of the top 5-6 players in the league for an extended period. Both guys won two batting titles, Matinez led the league in OPB three times, Parker none, Parker led the league in slugging twice, Martinez none. Martinez was a good ballplayer, but I think people forget how good Parker was because he played in Pittburg and Oakland for most of his career.

Craig Grebeck
12-02-2009, 02:30 PM
Parker won an MVP and was in the top three on three on other occasions. Martinez was in the top three once.
Nice, but fairly meaningless.

Parker won three Gold Gloves. Martinez didn't win any.
I can't wait until people stop treating Gold Gloves as though they are worth something.

Martinez played 18 seasons, Parker played 19, and Parker had better career stats in almost every offensive category.
Yes, better career stats in almost every offensive category except for BB, SO, BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, etc. Parker was an inferior offensive player, and it wasn't even close.

From 1975-79, Parker was one of the top five-six players in the NL (Morgan, Schmidt, Rose, Garvey, Winfield). I don't think Martinez was ever one of the top 5-6 players in the league for an extended period.
I can't think of too many guys who could best his production from 1995-2000.
Both guys won two batting titles, Matinez led the league in OPB three times, Parker none, Parker led the league in slugging twice, Martinez none. Martinez was a good ballplayer, but I think people forget how good Parker was because he played in Pittburg and Oakland for most of his career.
Relative to their peers, Martinez was far better than Parker was. Head to head, it's not even worth discussing.

doublem23
12-02-2009, 02:40 PM
:worship: I wish I had the power to vote my favorite player of all-time into the Hall!!!

Me too.

guillen4life13
12-02-2009, 05:13 PM
Alomar is arguably the best 2B of the modern era. If he doesn't make it in his first ballot, that would be a shame. He never had any steroid speculation and was consistently the top offensive 2B in the majors.

I'd have taken him over Jeff Kent any day, if you're going to bring that up.

Career BA: .300
Career OBP: .371
Career SLG: .443
Career hits: 2724

Not to mention, he was the best defensive 2B of his era. I don't think anyone can deny that. He was one half of arguably the best fielding middle infield ever with Omar Vizquel. He was a huge part of the Blue Jays' World Series wins. He was even more dangerous in the playoffs than in the regular season.

I may be biased because Alomar, to me, embodied the ideal complete ball player. Great defense, base running and situational hitting. If Jeter's gonna be a first ballot HOFer with his defense the way it has been, then Alomar sure as hell ought to be also.

chisoxfanatic
12-02-2009, 06:01 PM
As for the new candidates, I'd like to know if Mike Jackson will wear a Sox hat when he gets in.

Kevin Appier? Mike Jackson? Todd Zeile? Seriously?

That said, I would like to see Robin Ventura get in, but that likely isn't going to happen.
Robin is my favorite baseball player ever, so it would be nice if he were to get in, but I personally think it's a long shot for that to happen this time. Maybe in another few years, he'll make it. What a stitch would it be to see both he and Frank make it at the same time.

eastchicagosoxfan
12-02-2009, 07:12 PM
Nice, but fairly meaningless.


I can't wait until people stop treating Gold Gloves as though they are worth something.


Yes, better career stats in almost every offensive category except for BB, SO, BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, etc. Parker was an inferior offensive player, and it wasn't even close.


I can't think of too many guys who could best his production from 1995-2000.

Relative to their peers, Martinez was far better than Parker was. Head to head, it's not even worth discussing.
We'll see who gets to the Hall first.

Nellie_Fox
12-03-2009, 01:11 AM
Robin is my favorite baseball player ever, so it would be nice if he were to get in, but I personally think it's a long shot for that to happen this time. Maybe in another few years, he'll make it. What a stitch would it be to see both he and Frank make it at the same time.Frank will be in the HOF. Robin will not.

Waysouthsider
12-03-2009, 01:44 AM
I wonder if Alomar will be set back from the agent incident with the ump? Hope not....

I would probably vote for Martinez before Dawson....I wish they had kept Rice out....screw the Red Sawx and everything about them.....

Waysouthsider
12-03-2009, 01:45 AM
oops...spelling....."ancient incident with the ump"..not agent...better learn to type.....

Mohoney
12-03-2009, 03:40 AM
I think Dawson has a better resume than Jim Rice.
Offensively, it's really close. I would agree that Dawson edges Rice out when you factor in stolen bases and defensive skill.

Rice: .298/.352/.502, 2452 hits, 382 homers, 1451 RBI

Dawson: .279/.323/.482, 2774 hits, 438 homers, 1591 RBI

Both were 8 time All-Stars, both won an MVP.

If Rice is in, I think Dawson should be in, too. They're both the epitome of "border line".

akingamongstmen
12-03-2009, 10:23 AM
Offensively, it's really close. I would agree that Dawson edges Rice out when you factor in stolen bases and defensive skill.

Rice: .298/.352/.502, 2452 hits, 382 homers, 1451 RBI

Dawson: .279/.323/.482, 2774 hits, 438 homers, 1591 RBI

Both were 8 time All-Stars, both won an MVP.

If Rice is in, I think Dawson should be in, too. They're both the epitome of "border line".

...and this is why Rice does not belong in the Hall of Fame. He is going to be used as a point of comparison for borderline players for years to come. I know that I'm beating a dead horse, and I do think that Jim Rice was a very, very good player, but it's a shame that the Hall of Fame is losing some lustre over selections like this.

(I'm going to hop up on my soapbox for a minute)...

We've had this discussion numerious times on WSI, but the Hall of Fame, in my opinion, is "sacred" ground. I've been there, and I felt like I was in the Church of Baseball. When a player retires, they either are a Hall of Famer, or they are not. They should be on the ballot ONE TIME. That would reign in the idiotic voters and their petty desire to keep guys out that deserve it in their first year (Roberto Alomar - the BEST 2B of an entire era by far - is going to get this treatment). If a player doesn't get in on their first try, the Veterens Committee should convene ONE TIME the following year to give a thumbs up or thumbs down. It seems so simple to me.

asindc
12-03-2009, 10:37 AM
...and this is why Rice does not belong in the Hall of Fame. He is going to be used as a point of comparison for borderline players for years to come. I know that I'm beating a dead horse, and I do think that Jim Rice was a very, very good player, but it's a shame that the Hall of Fame is losing some lustre over selections like this.

(I'm going to hop up on my soapbox for a minute)...

We've had this discussion numerious times on WSI, but the Hall of Fame, in my opinion, is "sacred" ground. I've been there, and I felt like I was in the Church of Baseball. When a player retires, they either are a Hall of Famer, or they are not. They should be on the ballot ONE TIME. That would reign in the idiotic voters and their petty desire to keep guys out that deserve it in their first year (Roberto Alomar - the BEST 2B of an entire era by far - is going to get this treatment). If a player doesn't get in on their first try, the Veterens Committee should convene ONE TIME the following year to give a thumbs up or thumbs down. It seems so simple to me.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. It is silly that Jim Rice was on the ballot numerous times before getting in. It's as if he someone got better between the time he first appeared on the ballot and the last time.