PDA

View Full Version : Weaver deal in the works?


hold2dibber
06-11-2002, 09:05 AM
The Trib reports today that the Sox are heavily scouting Jeff Weaver and are interested in acquiring him. The article says that Lee, Ginter and a minor league prospect constitute the bait, and suggests that if Crede was the prospect, the deal would probably get done, but that the Sox are reluctant to part with him. I would love to have Weaver - he's a gamer with a great arm. And I think with Borchard, Harris, Rowand and Liefer, we can easily make up for the loss of Lee (actually, at this point, we could make up the loss of Lee by asking Minnie Minoso to suit up again). I have been impressed with Ginter and would hate to see him go, but Weaver is young too, and has proven (much) more. But if Crede is the third player, I think that might be a bit much. I'd rather throw Harris or Hummel or Valenzuela (sp?) in there. Thoughts?

CerberusWG
06-11-2002, 09:08 AM
Give em' Durham

ChiSoxBobette
06-11-2002, 09:28 AM
I agree with cerberusWG , after last night watching Ray Durham continue to struggle and next year him being a free agent give the tigers Ray. I don't want to see them give up on Ginter he's been pitching really well when he gets a chance.Also if it's true that K.W. does'nt want to give them Joe Crede then why oh why is'nt he up here playing 3rd base. god forbid K.W. is thinking about trading Joe Borchard because if thats the case when I go to the 4th of July game I will bet the tigers have Borchard up and playing . I say lets just stick with this team the pitching has been going really well(I won't even scream about getting rid of nardi)the only thing I think should happen(I say now)is lets fire Manuel. If not now then after hitting the road and they get beat by the flubs, phillys & atlanta then I say that when they play the twinkies June 24th they should have a whole new staff in there. :smile: Go White Sox

WinningUgly!
06-11-2002, 09:39 AM
I'd do Weaver for Lee, Ginter & Harris/Hummel in a heartbeat. But if the deal involves Crede or Borchard, the Tigers can piss off.

ScottyTheSoxFan
06-11-2002, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
(actually, at this point, we could make up the loss of Lee by asking Minnie Minoso to suit up again).

:KW
"Hmmmm...No, attendence figures must rise first."

duke of dorwood
06-11-2002, 10:54 AM
I agree with WU on this one. And it's about time to realize that sometime, somewhere, JR is gonna have to deal with Scott Boras

RKMeibalane
06-11-2002, 11:12 AM
I'm not sure about this deal, mainly because I don't know that much about Tim Hummel. How good is he now, compared to Crede or Borchard? How good do most of you think he will end up being? What are his strengths? Does he have power, or is he base-stealer? Does he hit for average?

Sorry to be asking so many questions, but I'm curious to find out what Hummel is capable of.

Daver
06-11-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I'm not sure about this deal, mainly because I don't know that much about Tim Hummel. How good is he now, compared to Crede or Borchard? How good do most of you think he will end up being? What are his strengths? Does he have power, or is he base-stealer? Does he hit for average?

Sorry to be asking so many questions, but I'm curious to find out what Hummel is capable of.

Here's his scouting report from BA:
6. Tim Hummel, 2b/ss

Age: 23. B-T: R-R. Ht.: 6-2. Wt.: 195. Drafted: Old Dominion, 2000 (2nd round). Signed by: Alex Cosmidis.

Background: Hummel was a polished hitter when the White Sox drafted him. He has moved all over the infield, settling in at second base in the second half of 2001. He spent his first full season as a pro in Double-A and then continued to be pushed in the Arizona Fall League.

Strengths: Hummel is an offensive player with lots of upside. Heís a rare righthanded hitter described as having a stylish swing. He hits for average and is selective at the plate, traits that have given him a career .380 on-base percentage as a pro. Hummel uses the whole field. He showed power last season but projects more as an ideal No. 2 hitter. He has a plus arm for second base.

Weaknesses: Hummel needs to work on his first step in the field. His range is limited, though he compensates with good positioning. He isnít fluid on the pivot but makes up for it with solid throws.

The Future: With Ray Durham in the last season of his contract, Hummel could be a 2003 regular. For that to be a successful transition for the White Sox, however, Hummel must improve enough defensively to be superior to Durham, a consistent liability through the years.

2001 Club (Class) AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Birmingham (AA) .290 524 83 152 33 6 7 63 62 69 14

Randar68
06-11-2002, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by daver
He showed power last season but projects more as an ideal No. 2 hitter. He has a plus arm for second base.


Not only is he ideal #2 hitter, hitting for average, OBP, and occassional power (average speed). It appears he may be capable of long-term 2B.

I would rather trade Harris than Hummel, JMO, but I think Hummel is better defensively and has better offensive potential at either 2B or SS...

MarqSox
06-11-2002, 11:38 AM
Y'know, I like Crede as much as the next guy, but if KW isn't gonna give him a shot, then what's the difference? Crede was ready 2 years ago and yet he's still in AAA. This organization needs to decide real quick if he's gonna play in Comiskey or not, and if not, then let's go get Weaver.

Iwritecode
06-11-2002, 12:19 PM
From what I've heard, the Tigers would take Weaver for Crede staight up. Anyone else KW trades would just be throw-ins. That said, with the way this team is playing lately, I think they would be better served inserting Crede's bat into the lineup rather than Weaver into the rotation. Everyone talks about how pitching and defense wins games. When you can't score any runs all the pitching and defense in the world isn't going to help...

Jerry_Manuel
06-11-2002, 01:50 PM
If they get Weaver, that's great. However, I know I'm not going to like who we give up.

34 Inch Stick
06-11-2002, 02:03 PM
Don't expect any trades for higher priced players until the labor matters are resolved. No way Chairman Jerry takes on salary when he knows they are going on strike.

FarmerAndy
06-11-2002, 02:33 PM
I love how everybody says, "I wouldn't make the trade if Crede was involved." "Give 'em Hummel or whoever."

We are talking about the Tigers #1 starter. They are going to want something really good in return, like a Crede or a Borchard. You can't just send them a bunch of guys that we can do without in return for Weaver. That's the kind of talk you hear from Cub fans. Get real.

Oh, and why do people bring up Scott Boras? Weaver is signed through 2005. We wouldn't have to deal with Boras until then.

hold2dibber
06-11-2002, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
I love how everybody says, "I wouldn't make the trade if Crede was involved." "Give 'em Hummel or whoever."

We are talking about the Tigers #1 starter. They are going to want something really good in return, like a Crede or a Borchard. You can't just send them a bunch of guys that we can do without in return for Weaver. That's the kind of talk you hear from Cub fans. Get real.

Oh, and why do people bring up Scott Boras? Weaver is signed through 2005. We wouldn't have to deal with Boras until then.

I think you're right. One question I have is, why are the Tigers interested in dealing him? Are they trying to dump salary? Do they figure they're in rebuilding mode anyway, so they want to get younger/prospects? Or do they want major league talent. In either event though, the Sox are going to have to give up someone (or several someones) who it "hurts" to give away; be it Crede, Borchard, Corwin Malone, and/or Rauch.

As always, the key is who exactly would we have to give up. I'd love to have Weaver, and I'd be willing to give up value for him, but my fear is that KW will overpay, as he did in the Ritchie deal.

Dadawg_77
06-11-2002, 02:44 PM
I can see it now, Sox send Crede, LTP, Malone and Rauch for Weaver,Mike and a AAAA outfielder.

Daver
06-11-2002, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I think you're right. One question I have is, why are the Tigers interested in dealing him? Are they trying to dump salary? Do they figure they're in rebuilding mode anyway, so they want to get younger/prospects? Or do they want major league talent. In either event though, the Sox are going to have to give up someone (or several someones) who it "hurts" to give away; be it Crede, Borchard, Corwin Malone, and/or Rauch.

As always, the key is who exactly would we have to give up. I'd love to have Weaver, and I'd be willing to give up value for him, but my fear is that KW will overpay, as he did in the Ritchie deal.

The Tigers want high level prospects in return,at least three maybe four of them,is this overpaying? What is the market value of a decent starting pitcher? With the starting pitching being what it is in MLB you are going to give up a lot to acquire it.

CerberusWG
06-11-2002, 03:05 PM
The tigers are loaded at SS, so there is no point giving them Hummel and Durham.

Personally, I'd give them Malone, Durham, and Lee. Two major leaguers and a good prospect. IMO that's enough to land Weaver.

Tragg
06-11-2002, 03:10 PM
Do we really want to part with the FEW positional players in our organization?

Sure give them lee and durham - but that isn't who they want.

Will we sign Weaver? This is useless as a trade for the short term.

Who will play left field? Rowand? Liefer? Not based on production this year.

Have we addressed our shortstop problem?

Who will play second after Durham walks?

I hope KW scouts this guy more thoroughly than he scouted Ritchie.

idseer
06-11-2002, 03:11 PM
has anyone considered how we'll pay for weaver, along with konerko, buehrle, garland, wright, magglio etc. in 2 years?
can we have two HIGHLY paid pitchers, magglio, konerko, thomas and the rest rookies who work cheap?

anyone remember who the owner is?

Daver
06-11-2002, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Tragg


Will we sign Weaver? This is useless as a trade for the short term.



Weaver is signed through 2005 with a club option for 2006.

MarqSox
06-11-2002, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
The tigers are loaded at SS, so there is no point giving them Hummel and Durham.

Personally, I'd give them Malone, Durham, and Lee. Two major leaguers and a good prospect. IMO that's enough to land Weaver.

From the reports I've heard, the Tigers want Crede, end of story. Crede straight-up is less than Malone, Durham and Lee, IMO. I realize Crede is essentially our only 3B prospect, that position is much easier to fill through free agency than pitching.

Chisox_cali
06-11-2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox


From the reports I've heard, the Tigers want Crede, end of story. Crede straight-up is less than Malone, Durham and Lee, IMO. I realize Crede is essentially our only 3B prospect, that position is much easier to fill through free agency than pitching.

But they just traded for Chris Truby, seems like kind of a wasted trade unless he can play some other positions.

CerberusWG
06-11-2002, 03:17 PM
If Dombrowski wants Crede, he's a moron. Their organization has aboslutely no good pitching porspects. The one's that are "good" crap their pnats in the Majors and can't produce. If Dombrowski gets Crede, it's a good deal, but his farm system still won't do jack.

He needs and SHOULD take pitching.

Randar68
06-11-2002, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox


From the reports I've heard, the Tigers want Crede, end of story. Crede straight-up is less than Malone, Durham and Lee, IMO. I realize Crede is essentially our only 3B prospect, that position is much easier to fill through free agency than pitching.

You're right, I mean, look how well the Cubs have filled the hole since Santo...

But seriously, how many really good or great 3B are in the majors? You can count them on one hand...pitcher, more, but there is a higher demand....

Iwritecode
06-11-2002, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Do we really want to part with the FEW positional players in our organization?

No, not really. But I can live with parting with a major league player or two. Plus we have plenty of depth in minor league pitching.

Will we sign Weaver? This is useless as a trade for the short term.

Knowing JR's history, probably not. But I'm sure Nardi will ruin him before that anyway...

Who will play left field? Rowand? Liefer? Not based on production this year.

Rowand can't be much worse than C. Lee. Plus we still have Borchard.

Have we addressed our shortstop problem?

Yes, he's playing third while our thirdbaseman is still in the minors...

Who will play second after Durham walks?


Wee-willie

I hope KW scouts this guy more thoroughly than he scouted Ritchie.

Weaver may suffer the same fate as Ritchie if he comes here. Give up 2-3 runs and take the loss because the offense is asleep at the wheel...

Tragg
06-11-2002, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox


From the reports I've heard, the Tigers want Crede, end of story. Crede straight-up is less than Malone, Durham and Lee, IMO. I realize Crede is essentially our only 3B prospect, that position is much easier to fill through free agency than pitching.

We've been drafting pitchers, and virtually nothing but pitchers, for the past 10 years. They are developing. If this trade were for a #1 starter - I'd listen. But Weaver isn't as good as Buerhle (who is a 2+ I'd say).

Trade top prospects for a)great players or b)top prospects of other positions that you need. We are trading top prospects for okay (or worse) veterans.

LongDistanceFan
06-11-2002, 03:29 PM
dombrowski is a great gm and knows that kw has a rep for overpaying for a trade................... weaver is good but he is not great and giving up 3 or 4 players for him is too much, esp with the name being thrown around.

MarqSox
06-11-2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Tragg


We've been drafting pitchers, and virtually nothing but pitchers, for the past 10 years. They are developing. If this trade were for a #1 starter - I'd listen. But Weaver isn't as good as Buerhle (who is a 2+ I'd say).


I disagree, I think on a good team Weaver would be a perennial Cy Young candidate, but whatever.

Foulke You
06-11-2002, 03:38 PM
Okay, it's time for me to play conspiracy theorist here:

Weaver- Originally drafted by the Sox, bad negotiations with Scott Boras, signs with the Tigers, the infamous bench clearing brawl in 2000 involving said Jeff Weaver, and he says something to the effect of not ever wanting to play for the Sox...ever.

Now, the Sox are reported to be heavily scouting Weaver and he "conveniently" has 2 of his worst outings of the season where he gets pounded. With the Tigers already out of it and Weaver signed to a multi-year deal, is Weaver tanking it so that the Sox won't pursue him???? I know it's a stretch but you never know...I think I see those black helicopters that Procul Harum was talking about...

LongDistanceFan
06-11-2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox


I disagree, I think on a good team Weaver would be a perennial Cy Young candidate, but whatever. the same thing was being said about ritchie when we first got him.............

Iguana775
06-11-2002, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
the same thing was being said about ritchie when we first got him.............

i dont remember anyone saying that.

i dont think i would want to get rid of crede. we have no one at 3B in the minors that is worth a darn.

Tragg
06-12-2002, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
The tigers are loaded at SS, so there is no point giving them Hummel and Durham.

Personally, I'd give them Malone, Durham, and Lee. Two major leaguers and a good prospect. IMO that's enough to land Weaver.

If the Tigers are loaded at SS, why not to try to pry some of their overload away on the cheap? SS isn't exactly the strong suit of the Sox.
We have plenty of slow pitch pitchers who can amass a 4.5 ERA, however.

DrWatson27
06-12-2002, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


One question I have is, why are the Tigers interested in dealing him?

Because they know the following:

He has a ERA around 5.00 and he gets to pitch in Comerica Park half the time so he can't be that good.

He has a history of arm problems and IMO the way he throws he's destined to have more.

AND the big one....

The know Lenny is a fool and will overpay greatly for an, at best, average pitcher (see Ritchie deal). Since they are in a rebuilding mode anyways why not fleece thier division rivals for some good talent.

I can just imagine Crede everytime he faces the Sox in a Tiger uniform. Crack , it's long, it's deep, it's OUTTA HERE "That's for not bringing me up a letting me play BEEAATCH!"

LongDistanceFan
06-12-2002, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Iguana775


i dont remember anyone saying that.

ok.... my bad, i got carried away with the thread and i stand corrected...........

LongDistanceFan
06-12-2002, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by DrWatson27


Because they know the following:

He has a ERA around 5.00 and he gets to pitch in Comerica Park half the time so he can't be that good.

He has a history of arm problems and IMO the way he throws he's destined to have more.

AND the big one....

The know Lenny is a fool and will overpay greatly for an, at best, average pitcher (see Ritchie deal). Since they are in a rebuilding mode anyways why not fleece thier division rivals for some good talent.

I can just imagine Crede everytime he faces the Sox in a Tiger uniform. Crack , it's long, it's deep, it's OUTTA HERE "That's for not bringing me up a letting me play BEEAATCH!" its called having a great gm in dambowski(sp), i said we should've gotten him when he was available..........

i was reading some msg on the another forum where an assortment of fictitious trade suggestion was going on. the consensus is that everyone was saying that kw is an idiot with a rep of overpaying................. i saw this in the pit forum and the det forum........ sad when other fans of other cities see this as well.

DrWatson27
06-12-2002, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
its called having a great gm in dambowski(sp), i said we should've gotten him when he was available..........

i was reading some msg on the another forum where an assortment of fictitious trade suggestion was going on. the consensus is that everyone was saying that kw is an idiot with a rep of overpaying................. i saw this in the pit forum and the det forum........ sad when other fans of other cities see this as well.

BINGO! I live in Michigan and Tiger fans (there are some believe it or not) are all saying if this is for real (Crede + 2 pitchers or something like that) what are the Tigers waiting for. When I hear things like that I know the Detroit fans feel they would be getting one hell of a deal.

That being the case I expect Lenny to pull the trigger on this deal any day now. :gulp:

hold2dibber
06-12-2002, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by DrWatson27


Because they know the following:

He has a ERA around 5.00 and he gets to pitch in Comerica Park half the time so he can't be that good.

He has a history of arm problems and IMO the way he throws he's destined to have more.

AND the big one....

The know Lenny is a fool and will overpay greatly for an, at best, average pitcher (see Ritchie deal). Since they are in a rebuilding mode anyways why not fleece thier division rivals for some good talent.

I can just imagine Crede everytime he faces the Sox in a Tiger uniform. Crack , it's long, it's deep, it's OUTTA HERE "That's for not bringing me up a letting me play BEEAATCH!"

Huh? Weaver's ERA is under 4 and has gone done each of his years in the majors (4.32 to 4.08 to 3.94 this year). He also rarely gives up the long ball and is extremely consistent (10 or 12 starts this year has give up 4 ERs or less). Also, he is only 25 years old. The Ritchie comparisons are, IMO, ridiculous. Weaver has WAY more upside than Ritchie. The injury concerns, however, are worisome. I have heard that some scouts believe his arm motion is such that he is more susceptible to injury. That is pretty scary. Otherwise, however, he is a gamer and a solid front line starter.

Randar68
06-12-2002, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


Huh? Weaver's ERA is under 4 and has gone done each of his years in the majors (4.32 to 4.08 to 3.94 this year). He also rarely gives up the long ball and is extremely consistent (10 or 12 starts this year has give up 4 ERs or less). Also, he is only 25 years old. The Ritchie comparisons are, IMO, ridiculous. Weaver has WAY more upside than Ritchie. The injury concerns, however, are worisome. I have heard that some scouts believe his arm motion is such that he is more susceptible to injury. That is pretty scary. Otherwise, however, he is a gamer and a solid front line starter.

Well, the arm injury thing is no rumor. While he may never have an injury, the likelihood is very high IMO. He changes arm angle and throws across his body way too much. The way he throws that slider is bound to blow him up at some point...

DrWatson27
06-12-2002, 12:13 PM
Sorry, I ment to say around 4, anyways my point to that was he gets to pitch half his games a comerica which is about the most pitcher-frendly park in baseball.

The comment about his throwing motion is correct-he throws across his body. On top of that he's tall and lanky which coupled with his motion even adds to the injury possiablility.

CLR01
06-12-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
The injury concerns, however, are worisome. I have heard that some scouts believe his arm motion is such that he is more susceptible to injury.


Whats to worry about???? Nardi will correct that in no time.