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View Full Version : Sox Sign Andruw Jones.. per The Score


SoxGirl4Life
11-25-2009, 02:58 PM
hmmm... 500k, 1 year..

Shoeless
11-25-2009, 02:59 PM
Andruw Jones to White Sox per B&B on 670 the score.

thoughts?

Shoeless
11-25-2009, 03:01 PM
hmmm... 500k, 1 year..

Most likely at DH. Probably worth it

LoveYourSuit
11-25-2009, 03:01 PM
Low risk, high reward IMO.

Can't wait to hear all the people bithcing about this one :rolleyes:

$500K, the sky is falling.

Jimmy Piersall
11-25-2009, 03:02 PM
OF bench guy only...right Kenny ?

doublem23
11-25-2009, 03:02 PM
Low risk, high reward IMO.

Can't wait to hear all the people bithcing about this one :rolleyes:

$500K, the sky is falling.

That's $500 K we can't use to sign a real player!!!

LoveYourSuit
11-25-2009, 03:04 PM
That's $500 K we can't use to sign a real player!!!


The guy had about the same OPS as Jermaine Dye did, I think it's worth a shot no?

Sargeant79
11-25-2009, 03:04 PM
The price is right. As long as Kenny doesn't think he's done shopping, I'm all for it.

Shoeless
11-25-2009, 03:05 PM
The guy had about the same OPS as Jermaine Dye did, I think it's worth a shot no?

Does this signing officially validate the "Jermaine Dye Appreciation Thread"?

dickallen15
11-25-2009, 03:05 PM
The Sox are the first team to ink a Boras FA this offseason.

ElevenUp
11-25-2009, 03:05 PM
Hopefully he comes into ST in shape.

gobears1987
11-25-2009, 03:06 PM
$500K for Andruw Jones? Wow has he fallen. This really can't hurt the Sox, but if he hit anything like he could a few years ago, then WOW this will be amazing.

Moses_Scurry
11-25-2009, 03:07 PM
Hopefully he's gunning for that elusive "Comeback Player of the Year" award!

JermaineDye05
11-25-2009, 03:08 PM
So is this our DH?

doublem23
11-25-2009, 03:08 PM
The guy had about the same OPS as Jermaine Dye did, I think it's worth a shot no?

True, but he also missed huge chunks of time because of his failing health.

Jones' career nosedive coincides perfectly with baseball finally getting tough on steroids. I don't know how much he's got left in the tank, but yeah, if they can find a way to tap back into his talent, that's a risk worth putting $500 K on.

DirtySox
11-25-2009, 03:08 PM
So is this our DH?

I sure hope not.

DirtySox
11-25-2009, 03:10 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=4689589

Implies a bench player.

soxinem1
11-25-2009, 03:10 PM
That solves our CF issues!!!

What is the recent facination with former TEX players??

But honestly, I'd rather sign him this way than the way LAD did a few years ago.

And for all you Thome fans, it still leaves the door open for him to return, but probably slams the door on any chance of getting Matsui.

doublem23
11-25-2009, 03:10 PM
Does this signing officially validate the "Jermaine Dye Appreciation Thread"?

Probably not, I got to believe the Sox are just taking a flyer on Jones and hoping lightning strikes. His combined line the past 2 seasons is .190/.295/.369 in 157 games.

I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't even make the trip North from Glendale.

SoxGirl4Life
11-25-2009, 03:10 PM
I like it. He's only 32, yeah, he's been a punk health wise the past two years, but he gives us a solid DH and an insurance (albeit slow) outfield sub option.

JermaineDye05
11-25-2009, 03:11 PM
$500K for Andruw Jones? Wow has he fallen. This really can't hurt the Sox, but if he hit anything like he could a few years ago, then WOW this will be amazing.

Not gonna happen. In the past three seasons he's hit .222, .158, and .214.

russ99
11-25-2009, 03:11 PM
That's $500 K we can't use to sign a real player!!!

I don't think this $500 K or Vizquel's $1.375M will prevent us from bringing in a quality player. Kenny has more leeway financially with Jerry than any time in his tenure.

Typical low risk move by Kenny. At worst, we cut him. If average, he's better than some of our backup options at outfield the last few years, and if he finds his bat again this could be a steal.

doublem23
11-25-2009, 03:11 PM
I like it. He's only 32, yeah, he's been a punk health wise the past two years, but he gives us a solid DH and an insurance (albeit slow) outfield sub option.

32-year-old Andruw Jones is definitely a gamble worth just about the league minimum on.

gobears1987
11-25-2009, 03:12 PM
Not gonna happen. In the past three seasons he's hit .222, .158, and .214.
Let me tell you the story of a non-roster invitee who was invited to pitch for us in 2003...

Lightning has struck before and it can again.

SoxGirl4Life
11-25-2009, 03:13 PM
32-year-old Andruw Jones is definitely a gamble worth just about the league minimum on.

Maybe the sky IS falling. He's a Boras client. With no leverage.

eriqjaffe
11-25-2009, 03:17 PM
he gives us a solid DHWell, "solid" in that he is neither a liquid nor a gas.

Rdy2PlayBall
11-25-2009, 03:18 PM
This could end up a great deal. Or just a decent backup guy. Still, this can be pretty big if he pulls out a good season.

soxinem1
11-25-2009, 03:18 PM
Maybe the sky IS falling. He's a Boras client. With no leverage.


And KW's critics say we will not work with Boras clients. This will prove them all wrong!!!!

broker3d
11-25-2009, 03:18 PM
Definitely worth the risk!

Has to be considered a RF candidate based on our current roster.

october23sp
11-25-2009, 03:21 PM
Spending nothing on a guy who, IMO, could have one more good year in him. Good move.

whitem0nkey
11-25-2009, 03:23 PM
From Chruck garfien's tweet.

Kenny Williams says "With Andruw, Kotsay, and Vizquel, we feel our bench is taking shape to be a strong asset heading into 2010."

Jimmy Piersall
11-25-2009, 03:23 PM
Definitely worth the risk!

Has to be considered a RF candidate based on our current roster.

Let's just stick with him being a guy who will play a bunch as
a late inning defensive replacement.He can catch the ball and
does still have some pop left in his bat but we do not want him
in the lineup on a regular basis.Kenny isn't done yet.

Sargeant79
11-25-2009, 03:24 PM
Let's just stick with him being a guy who will play a bunch as
a late inning defensive replacement.He can catch the ball and
does still have some pop left in his bat but we do not want him
in the lineup on a regular basis.Kenny isn't done yet.

He is not a defensive replacement for any inning at this stage in his career. He's pretty below average in the field lately.

JermaineDye05
11-25-2009, 03:25 PM
From Chruck garfien's tweet.

Kenny Williams says "With Andruw, Kotsay, and Vizquel, we feel our bench is taking shape to be a strong asset heading into 2010."

I like. Now just sign Henry Blanco.

russ99
11-25-2009, 03:27 PM
From Chruck garfien's tweet.

Kenny Williams says "With Andruw, Kotsay, and Vizquel, we feel our bench is taking shape to be a strong asset heading into 2010."

Cool. Now get us that starting outfielder/DH, Kenny. :D:

oeo
11-25-2009, 03:28 PM
I like. Now just sign Henry Blanco.

And finish off the oldest bench in history. :moonwalk:

JermaineDye05
11-25-2009, 03:29 PM
And finish off the oldest bench in history. :moonwalk:

They may be old but they're experienced and with the exception of Jones, have a history of being good.

spawn
11-25-2009, 03:30 PM
And finish off the oldest bench in history. :moonwalk:
Hopefully, the games will end before 6:00pm. Don't want them out past their bed times!

TheOldRoman
11-25-2009, 03:31 PM
Well, "solid" in that he is neither a liquid nor a gas.:rolling:

On another note, Walk'll fix him.

Low risk, high reward signing. I don't really take anything from KW's comments, though. I think DeAza makes this team as a backup unless Jones sets the world on fire this Spring.

Jimmy Piersall
11-25-2009, 03:35 PM
He is not a defensive replacement for any inning at this stage in his career. He's pretty below average in the field lately.

Not even for TCQ (and saving some wear on his foot) ? how about
if Pods comes back and Ozzie wants to cover for him ?

hi im skot
11-25-2009, 03:36 PM
Random.

moochpuppy
11-25-2009, 03:36 PM
That's $500 K we can't use to sign a real player!!!

Better add those eight rows back into the upper deck for more revenue. :D:

Sargeant79
11-25-2009, 03:37 PM
Not even for TCQ (and saving some wear on his foot) ? how about
if Pods comes back and Ozzie wants to cover for him ?

I'm not really up on all the defensive metrics out there, but I think you could make an argument that Pods and Jones are on about equal footing in the field at this point in each of their careers.

kevingrt
11-25-2009, 03:39 PM
What an interesting signing.

I loved the guy during his early years but he really became a headcase.

What an interesting bench.

CWSpalehoseCWS
11-25-2009, 03:39 PM
For 500 K, good move by KW. Can't hurt us and could have some upside, plus Jones as a backup is way better than Wise was. He may have lost a step and isn't anything near what he once was, but still adds to the bench. Still a long way to go though if you ask me to making this team a contender.

salty99
11-25-2009, 03:40 PM
Maybe the sky IS falling. He's a Boras client. With no leverage.

So is Joe Crede

GoGoCrede
11-25-2009, 03:40 PM
That's too much money!!!111

cbotnyse
11-25-2009, 03:41 PM
cool.

Lundind1
11-25-2009, 03:43 PM
I only think that this is good only to teach to the young players how to play the game.

I don't see this being much of a benefit to the team. Maybe this is the first start to a team that catches lightning in a bottle.

MarkZ35
11-25-2009, 03:43 PM
Random.
Exactly what I thought. I think it is a good signing as a bench player. His first 2 months were pretty good last year but the last few months of the season he was brutal and didn't play much. I guess it's a low risk high reward like many have said. He is a good fielder also so maybe he'll be a late inning defensive replacement.

Boondock Saint
11-25-2009, 03:44 PM
From Chruck garfien's tweet.

Kenny Williams says "With Andruw, Kotsay, and Vizquel, we feel our bench is taking shape to be a strong asset heading into 2010."

Whew. I was starting to think that this move meant that either Jones or Kotsay was going to be playing every day. This quote makes me 100% more comfortable with the deal. I'd still prefer to see him start off in AAA, though.

eriqjaffe
11-25-2009, 03:44 PM
From the "Well, I'll be" department:

Did you know that, over the past two seasons, Dewayne Wise's OPS+ is higher than that of Andrew Jones?

oeo
11-25-2009, 03:44 PM
I only think that this is good only to teach to the young players how to play the game.

Or in Andruw's case: how not to play the game. He's not exactly the best guy for that.

There were a lot of comments about Ozzie playing Vizquel a ton, which I don't think will happen because our middle infield is pretty good. Unless we bring in a proven outfielder (we're screwed if we don't), Jones is going to see a lot of time. Ozzie LOVES Andruw Jones.

Frater Perdurabo
11-25-2009, 03:45 PM
KW always gets his guy.

WhiteSox5187
11-25-2009, 03:46 PM
So long as these guys are primarily bench guys, I have no problems with our recent signings. But if Jones is plan 1A for DH or RF, we're in trouble.

GoGoCrede
11-25-2009, 03:47 PM
Is he going to join guys like Alexei, Javy, and Richard in having his name constantly misspelled on WSI from now on? :D: (Oh, I'm sorry. I meant Alexi, Vasquez and Richards.)

Boondock Saint
11-25-2009, 03:47 PM
KW always gets his guy.

54 posts in before someone says this? You guys are slipping.

BleacherBandit
11-25-2009, 03:49 PM
This is such a Kenny Williams acquisition. Trying to be as under the radar as possible and hoping for a diamond in the rough. Hopefully he'll have success this time. Hopefully Jones won't end up like Colon. But it wouldn't matter if he did, considering the Sox have only spent 500k.

fox23
11-25-2009, 03:51 PM
I only think that this is good only to teach to the young players how to play the game.



Great, get ready for an entire outfield that waits until the last second and then flips their glove at the ball and catches it one handed. If the Sox bring back Pods I can just see him getting hit in the face with a pop fly trying this.

oeo
11-25-2009, 03:51 PM
This is such a Kenny Williams acquisition. Trying to be as under the radar as possible and hoping for a diamond in the rough. Hopefully he'll have success this time. Hopefully Jones won't end up like Colon. But it wouldn't matter if he did, considering the Sox have only spent 500k.

Colon pitched pretty well when he was actually around and healthy. Things could have been a lot worse without Bart.

Palehose Pete
11-25-2009, 03:53 PM
Last year it was Bartolo Colon, this year it's Andruw Jones... there's an "empty churro cart" joke in there somewhere. I'll leave it up to someone funnier to get to it.

BleacherBandit
11-25-2009, 03:54 PM
Colon pitched pretty well when he was actually around and healthy. Things could have been a lot worse without Bart.

I mean the whole falling off of the face of the Earth thing. Twice.

But w/e. How could you dislike this deal. I don't really care much about it, but I don't dislike it.

Dub25
11-25-2009, 03:57 PM
I know it is only 500k but what does this solve? Kenny said they have no money but have spent 2 mil on over the hill bench players. Oh wait, these are guys he has always wanted but like the Griffey move gets them past the prime years. I hope he works a major trade for offense because it sucked last year and its not looking better so far. No leadoff man still and with this Jones move you can kiss Thome good-bye. Not that I wanted him because I'm tired of the slow, strikeout, DP nucleus they have had the last few years. Here's to Chone Figgins in 2015 when he will be 38. :gulp:

thomas35forever
11-25-2009, 03:57 PM
So is this our DH?
I find it hard to imagine after the sharp decline he's had, but with this deal, I can't picture KW going after anyone else to hit. This is a low-risk, high-reward deal, so I can see him hitting no higher than sixth, but he's even a sliver of what he once was, that could be big for us.

Noneck
11-25-2009, 03:57 PM
Looks like its going to be a maxwell street off season spending spree.

spawn
11-25-2009, 03:58 PM
I know it is only 500k but what does this solve? Kenny said they have no money but have spent 2 mil on over the hill bench players. Oh wait, these are guys he has always wanted but like the Griffey move gets them past the prime years. I hope he works a major trade for offense because it sucked last year and its not looking better so far. No leadoff man still and with this Jones move you can kiss Thome good-bye. Not that I wanted him because I'm tired of the slow, strikeout, DP nucleus they have had the last few years. Here's to Chone Figgins in 2015 when he will be 38. :gulp:
No, that joke definitely isn't getting old.

JermaineDye05
11-25-2009, 03:59 PM
I find it hard to imagine after the sharp decline he's had, but with this deal, I can't picture KW going after anyone else to hit. This is a low-risk, high-reward deal, so I can see him hitting no higher than sixth, but he's even a sliver of what he once was, that could be big for us.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking. For some reason I thought he did decent last year, but then I looked at his average over 82 games, yikes.

BleacherBandit
11-25-2009, 04:00 PM
No, that joke definitely isn't getting old.

Let them have their fun. It wouldn't be WSI without those jokes.

thomas35forever
11-25-2009, 04:01 PM
Yeah, I wasn't thinking. For some reason I thought he did decent last year, but then I looked at his average over 82 games, yikes.
What's more, we still don't have a lead-off hitter. If Rios has to hit first, I'm not going to be too optimistic about our chances this year.

wassagstdu
11-25-2009, 04:03 PM
Maybe Ozzie knows something about this guy -- or maybe he owes him $500,000. Seems a little Canseco-like.

Dub25
11-25-2009, 04:03 PM
Let them have their fun. It wouldn't be WSI without those jokes.

Laugh at it and enjoy these numbers while your at it.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesan01.shtml

What was I thinking? Jones has a low BA and K's alot. Fits right in with this offensive attack.

g0g0
11-25-2009, 04:03 PM
This kicks ass! Now if only the Sox can fix what LA and TX broke.

JermaineDye05
11-25-2009, 04:03 PM
What's more, we still don't have a lead-off hitter. If Rios has to hit first, I'm not going to be too optimistic about our chances this year.

We'll see Danks leading off before Rios, just my thoughts.

eriqjaffe
11-25-2009, 04:05 PM
This kicks ass! Now if only the Sox can fix what LA and TX broke.Don't forget that last season in Atlanta where he hit a robust .222!

spawn
11-25-2009, 04:05 PM
Let them have their fun. It wouldn't be WSI without those jokes.
It's the same joke in two different threads. I'd have no problem if there was any originality. :shrug:

JermaineDye05
11-25-2009, 04:07 PM
This kicks ass! Now if only the Sox can fix what LA and TX broke.

Walk'll fix him!!!

In all seriousness, it's all in Andruw's hands if he's going to get better. I don't know what happened to the guy from 2005, I don't know if it was PED's or not. From what I know, PED's don't help you make contact.

Sargeant79
11-25-2009, 04:08 PM
I know it is only 500k but what does this solve? Kenny said they have no money but have spent 2 mil on over the hill bench players. Oh wait, these are guys he has always wanted but like the Griffey move gets them past the prime years. I hope he works a major trade for offense because it sucked last year and its not looking better so far. No leadoff man still and with this Jones move you can kiss Thome good-bye. Not that I wanted him because I'm tired of the slow, strikeout, DP nucleus they have had the last few years. Here's to Chone Figgins in 2015 when he will be 38. :gulp:

Every team needs bench guys, and it would be nice to have some guys on our bench who have actually proven they can play at the major league level rather than relying on minor leaguers hoping to be major leaguers. Under 2 million for a guy who can be a good mentor for the kids (Vizquel) and a guy who may or may not have a decent year but at worst is an ok pinch hitter and 5th outfielder (Jones)...I could think of worse ways to spend the money.

And whether Thome is back or not is in no way, shape, or form related to this signing. If Thome is back, it will be because several other better options didn't work out, not because we signed Andruw Jones.

KenBerryGrab
11-25-2009, 04:08 PM
We would kill at MVP 2002.

BleacherBandit
11-25-2009, 04:09 PM
Laugh at it and enjoy these numbers while your at it.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesan01.shtml

What was I thinking? Jones has a low BA and K's alot. Fits right in with this offensive attack.

I was talking about the Chone Figgins joke. Those really are getting old.

As for Jones, you probably know alot more about baseball than I do, but it doesn't take a genius to understand that Jones won't be starting for the White Sox next season. The off-season has barely begun. You know things are going slow around the MLB when this signing becomes the headline on MLB.com.

beasly213
11-25-2009, 04:11 PM
He's a bench player.. Fine. But he's a bad bench player. He can't hit anymore and can't field either. What is his value exactly? :scratch:

Besides Kenny hoping he can catch lightning in a bottle.

BleacherBandit
11-25-2009, 04:13 PM
He's a bench player.. Fine. But he's a bad bench player. He can't hit anymore and can't field either. What is his value exactly? :scratch:

Besides Kenny hoping he can catch lightning in a bottle.

$500k, which is cheap. That should mirror the value you think he has.

I seriously don't understand what people are moaning and groaning about with this one.

SoxNation05
11-25-2009, 04:14 PM
If he was still on roids I'd love this move.

Dub25
11-25-2009, 04:14 PM
It's the same joke in two different threads. I'd have no problem if there was any originality. :shrug:

Oh geez, sorry I'm not funny enough. It actually was not intended to be a joke but rather the truth.

beasly213
11-25-2009, 04:15 PM
$500k, which is cheap. That should mirror the value you think he has.

I seriously don't understand what people are moaning and groaning about with this one.


I'm not complaning I just don't see the point. Just because a player is dirt cheap doesn't mean you should sign him. Seems like a wasted bench spot to me. But I hope I'm wrong.

Thome25
11-25-2009, 04:16 PM
So much for the theory that we don't deal with Boras clients no matter the cost.....

russ99
11-25-2009, 04:16 PM
We'll see Danks leading off before Rios, just my thoughts.

IMO, not likely unless someone's hurt.

Anything about these vets we're signing that sends a message?

Kenny got burned by kids last spring, so he's not relying on them in 2010. He's not going to pencil in a kid with a year or two in the minors as a starter, much less at such a vital spot as leadoff.

BleacherBandit
11-25-2009, 04:18 PM
I'm not complaning I just don't see the point. Just because a player is dirt cheap doesn't mean you should sign him. Seems like a wasted bench spot to me. But I hope I'm wrong.

It's definitely something KW would do. As said previously, low-risk, high-reward. The Angels and Rangers tried to salvage Jones the last two years but they didn't succeed. However, did they suffer because of it? No, not really. The Angels got to the playoffs in '08, and the Rangers did relatively well last year.

Dub25
11-25-2009, 04:18 PM
I was talking about the Chone Figgins joke. Those really are getting old.

As for Jones, you probably know alot more about baseball than I do, but it doesn't take a genius to understand that Jones won't be starting for the White Sox next season. The off-season has barely begun. You know things are going slow around the MLB when this signing becomes the headline on MLB.com.

I know which "un-original" joke you were talking about. I hope everyone that is excited about this move gets drunk tonight about it. I'm looking at it like this. KW moans about being broke but then spends 2 mil on not only guys he tried to get in the past but guys that are not very good anymore. Visquel to mentor Alexei? Alexei needs to learn simple english terms and get his head out of his butt. Omar can't help him with motivation. Alexei has to find that within himself. Jones has been bad for awhile now. I guess I expect more from my team and not nickle and diming a team together.

Dub25
11-25-2009, 04:19 PM
It's definitely something KW would do. As said previously, low-risk, high-reward. The Angels and Rangers tried to salvage Jones the last two years but they didn't succeed. However, did they suffer because of it? No, not really. The Angels got to the playoffs in '08, and the Rangers did relatively well last year.

When did Jones play for the Angels? Dodgers... yes.

Dub25
11-25-2009, 04:20 PM
I'm not complaning I just don't see the point. Just because a player is dirt cheap doesn't mean you should sign him. Seems like a wasted bench spot to me. But I hope I'm wrong.

I'm with you Beasly. I think it is possible everyone is star struck circa early 2000's.

Sargeant79
11-25-2009, 04:26 PM
I know which "un-original" joke you were talking about. I hope everyone that is excited about this move gets drunk tonight about it. I'm looking at it like this. KW moans about being broke but then spends 2 mil on not only guys he tried to get in the past but guys that are not very good anymore. Visquel to mentor Alexei? Alexei needs to learn simple english terms and get his head out of his butt. Omar can't help him with motivation. Alexei has to find that within himself. Jones has been bad for awhile now. I guess I expect more from my team and not nickle and diming a team together.

They are nickle and diming a bench together, not a whole team...basically the same way 29 other teams in baseball do it. Would you rather have De Aza and Brent Lillibridge instead? Because they wouldn't cost much less.

And whether we're talking about Jones and Vizquel or De Aza and Lillibridge, if any of these guys are starting or seeing very significant time, good chance we're in serious trouble.

spawn
11-25-2009, 04:26 PM
Oh geez, sorry I'm not funny enough. It actually was not intended to be a joke but rather the truth.
Sorry. I didn't realize you could see into the future. my bad.

doublem23
11-25-2009, 04:26 PM
It's the same joke in two different threads. I'd have no problem if there was any originality. :shrug:

You need to email Kenny and ask him to stop lobbing softballs in our wheelhouse.

KW always gets his guy.

twinsuck
11-25-2009, 04:29 PM
I didn't see that coming.

spawn
11-25-2009, 04:29 PM
I didn't see that coming.
I don't think many people did.

tstrike2000
11-25-2009, 04:29 PM
As far as this signing... :shrug:

jabrch
11-25-2009, 04:30 PM
Very low risk...likely no payback. Nothing to piss and moan about...not that people here need motivation to piss and moan.

jabrch
11-25-2009, 04:31 PM
I'm not complaning I just don't see the point. Just because a player is dirt cheap doesn't mean you should sign him. Seems like a wasted bench spot to me. But I hope I'm wrong.

It's not really a wasted bench spot because if they don't like what they are getting for him, they can just cut him and eat the half a mil.

We gave up no players...and almost no money...for likely nothing. Meh.

whitem0nkey
11-25-2009, 04:33 PM
andruw > wise.

and if you agree with this its a good day.

Lundind1
11-25-2009, 04:38 PM
Great, get ready for an entire outfield that waits until the last second and then flips their glove at the ball and catches it one handed. If the Sox bring back Pods I can just see him getting hit in the face with a pop fly trying this.

I am not talking about the way to play the game in the field. I was talking more about approach and professionalism. These older players have been around for a long time for a reason. That approach to the game is a important as fielding, throwing, or hitting.

VeeckAsInWreck
11-25-2009, 04:38 PM
Kenny strikes again on a Wednesday! I don't think anyone here saw this coming.

Andruw is not the player he was 4 years ago, but he's definitely an upgrade at the plate over D.Wise.

I like this move, now keep 'em coming Kenny!

tstrike2000
11-25-2009, 04:44 PM
Kenny strikes again on a Wednesday! I don't think anyone here saw this coming.

Andruw is not the player he was 4 years ago, but he's definitely an upgrade at the plate over D.Wise.

I like this move, now keep 'em coming Kenny!

Definitely an upgrade? I'm indifferent about this move and yes Wise wasn't good at the plate, but if you looked at the last 3 years Jones has sucked at the plate. The only difference I see is power, otherwise the average is terrible.

TDog
11-25-2009, 04:45 PM
... KW moans about being broke but then spends 2 mil on not only guys he tried to get in the past but guys that are not very good anymore. ...

That's a fraction of the money the White Sox would have had to spend on these players before anyone knew they weren't good anymore.

I see nothing wrong with building a strong, veteran bench with players who can step in for a couple of weeks if a regular player sustains a minor injury. Now the Sox need a strong defensive backup catcher.

NardiWasHere
11-25-2009, 04:46 PM
KW moans about being broke but then spends 2 mil on not only guys he tried to get in the past but guys that are not very good anymore.

I don't get it. Do you think Kenny overspent? This cost them 500k. Who would be cheaper?



Alexei needs to learn simple english terms and get his head out of his butt.

What in God's name are you talking about?

I guess I expect more from my team and not nickle and diming a team together.

I thought the problem earlier in your post was that he overpaid for bench players, not that he was cheap.

Seriously, what the **** are you complaining about? This post made no sense.

1. Kenny needs to spend less on players
2. Alexei doesn't speak English well enough
3. Kenny needs to spend more on players

Awesome.

getonbckthr
11-25-2009, 05:12 PM
Maybe this is the little kid in me that loved Andruw Jones growing up but **** YA!!!!!!!!!!

VeeckAsInWreck
11-25-2009, 05:14 PM
Definitely an upgrade? I'm indifferent about this move and yes Wise wasn't good at the plate, but if you looked at the last 3 years Jones has sucked at the plate. The only difference I see is power, otherwise the average is terrible.

Andruw's OBP is better than Dewayne's during the last three years too.

Andruw is still only 32, perhaps he still has something left in the tank.

KMcMahon817
11-25-2009, 05:17 PM
Definitely an upgrade? I'm indifferent about this move and yes Wise wasn't good at the plate, but if you looked at the last 3 years Jones has sucked at the plate. The only difference I see is power, otherwise the average is terrible.

Averagewise he may not be much of an upgrade, but the guy hit 17 bombs in limited playing time last year. I will definitely take that power coming off our bench, especially if Nix isn't on the squad.

Medford Bobby
11-25-2009, 05:17 PM
Another guy who did not need a gun to steal money from the Dodgers............:angry:

Crestani
11-25-2009, 05:21 PM
Kenny strikes again on a Wednesday! I don't think anyone here saw this coming.

Andruw is not the player he was 4 years ago, but he's definitely an upgrade at the plate over D.Wise. :scratch:

I like this move, now keep 'em coming Kenny!


Um...Let's see, four years ago, steroids testing, production decline. I'm just saying.

gr8mexico
11-25-2009, 05:25 PM
If Andruw Jones starts a full season he can easily put up the numbers J.D did last year. Andruw Jones hit 14 HR's and 43 RBI's in 331 AB last year.
and If he was to be the full time DH and get over 600AB, He would easily put up better numbers then Jim Thome. I think this was a great signing by KW for the 500K he spent on him. Andruw Jones only had one bad season and that was in 2008 with the Dodgers. He was hurt most of the season.

tick53
11-25-2009, 05:40 PM
If Ozzie can chew some of the fat off his ass, he could be an asset. He can hit a ball a long way and play the OF. Wait and see what the spring may bring.

eriqjaffe
11-25-2009, 05:50 PM
Andruw Jones only had one bad season and that was in 2008 with the Dodgers. He was hurt most of the season.One bad season? His line over the past 3 years is .207/.304/.393. Dude's got nothin'.

If Ozzie can chew some of the fat off his ass, he could be an asset.Look at how Ozzie's gotten Bobby Jenks to shape up!

TheBigHurtST
11-25-2009, 05:56 PM
I hear the reasons some people shrug at this, but for 500k? Why the hell NOT? Who knows what could happen?

On the flip side, I'm still not seeing that we have the ability to go out and get any solid starters that at least improve our D, so I'm skeptical. I like Omar's D, but the man is 42. I haven't yet decided if I'm slightly satisfied so far or whether this will have no real bearing on this team.

ChiWavDave
11-25-2009, 06:00 PM
This is a "Coop will fix em" signing but replace Coop with Herm Schneider. Jones hasn't really been healthy the last few years. Let Herm work his magic and see what will happen. If you recall JD couldn't really stay healthy before he got here either.. For 500K this is a great pickup..

JermaineDye05
11-25-2009, 06:10 PM
This is a "Coop will fix em" signing but replace Coop with Herm Schneider. Jones hasn't really been healthy the last few years. Let Herm work his magic and see what will happen. If you recall JD couldn't really stay healthy before he got here either.. For 500K this is a great pickup..

Jones also has trouble hitting the baseball.

JB98
11-25-2009, 06:13 PM
Don't like the move. I think Jones is done. Hope I'm wrong.

I thought the Sox were looking to get younger and more athletic. :scratch:

TheVulture
11-25-2009, 06:13 PM
I know it is only 500k but what does this solve?

Vizquel and Jones are an improvement over Lillibridge and Wise.

JermaineDye05
11-25-2009, 06:18 PM
Don't like the move. I think Jones is done. Hope I'm wrong.

I thought the Sox were looking to get younger and more athletic. :scratch:

In the bigger picture, yes. There's still plenty of offseason left for Kenny to back that up.

Vizquel and Jones are both just 1 year reserves, I don't see what's wrong with that. Jones gives you power off the bench, Vizquel gives you defense, and Kotsay is a good pinch hitter. I don't see how anyone can be displeased with the bench.

white sox bill
11-25-2009, 06:26 PM
In reading some comments, I see this only one way. Theres free or next to free. We picked up someone for next to free. Its like buying yesterdays newspaper for a nickel. May not be most current but for the price, why not??

JB98
11-25-2009, 06:28 PM
In the bigger picture, yes. There's still plenty of offseason left for Kenny to back that up.

Vizquel and Jones are both just 1 year reserves, I don't see what's wrong with that. Jones gives you power off the bench, Vizquel gives you defense, and Kotsay is a good pinch hitter. I don't see how anyone can be displeased with the bench.

I don't have a problem with Vizquel or Kotsay.

I think Jones is garbage. If he wants to sign cheap, fat guys who are on the wrong side of 30, he should just sign me.

Dub25
11-25-2009, 06:39 PM
They are nickle and diming a bench together, not a whole team...basically the same way 29 other teams in baseball do it. Would you rather have De Aza and Brent Lillibridge instead? Because they wouldn't cost much less.

And whether we're talking about Jones and Vizquel or De Aza and Lillibridge, if any of these guys are starting or seeing very significant time, good chance we're in serious trouble.

How about improving the starting lineup then get bench guys later? FA begins and the Sox attack bench players. Awesome.

Dub25
11-25-2009, 06:51 PM
I don't get it. Do you think Kenny overspent? This cost them 500k. Who would be cheaper?





What in God's name are you talking about?



I thought the problem earlier in your post was that he overpaid for bench players, not that he was cheap.

Seriously, what the **** are you complaining about? This post made no sense.

1. Kenny needs to spend less on players
2. Alexei doesn't speak English well enough
3. Kenny needs to spend more on players

Awesome.

You're right, you don't get it. As Boers and Bernstein would say, I must be talking to the baseball stupid. I neversaid he overpaid, I'm simply saying that he says he is broke but goes after old washed up players.

Alexei's problems are more than making the routine play. Do you not listen to the broadcast when Hawk or Stone points out that Alexei has issues with covering 2nd on DP's? Or how about not cutting the ball off? Or letting them go through? I'm sure when Paulie is in the middle of the infield he is yelling simple english terms like cut or let it go through. I could continue but why bother.

I never said Kenny needs to spend more. What I said, and I'll try to be as clear as I can, I expect the Sox to compete on a championship level. That means going after guys that will help you everyday. Does not mean trying to turn every crap or washed up player into a polished turd. Yes, it has worked before but it doesn't work everytime. Colon? Not so good last year and I remember alot of people here being excited about him being a solid 5th starter. With all of this being said, I don't mean Keeny has to break the bank. In today's baseball economics, you can probably get good everyday players at a good price. I don't understand the rush to already use 2mil on bench players. Would there really have been a huge line to bid on Omar or Jones later in the FA period? Probably not.

JermaineDye05
11-25-2009, 07:01 PM
I don't have a problem with Vizquel or Kotsay.

I think Jones is garbage. If he wants to sign cheap, fat guys who are on the wrong side of 30, he should just sign me.

I think you'll have to wait for eight misfortunes first: AJ to get acute radiation poisoning; Rios to catch gigantism after an overdose of nerve tonic; Beckham to be arrested and looking at 6 consecutive life sentences; Alexei to vanish off the face of the earth; Quentin to be sidelined while helping a woman from a burning building; Teahen to lose in a barroom brawl; Danks to be hypnotized into thinking he's a chicken; and finally for Pauly to be cut for not shaving his "sideburns".

Then, Kenny may call upon you :D:.

TomBradley72
11-25-2009, 07:35 PM
This about the same as Veeck signing Cleon Jones heading into 1976....he's had three mediocre years in a row...not much of a move.

soltrain21
11-25-2009, 08:05 PM
How about improving the starting lineup then get bench guys later? FA begins and the Sox attack bench players. Awesome.

Because then the "good" bench guys would be gone. They always get gobbled up first.

chisox77
11-25-2009, 08:22 PM
I would hope KW makes a couple of moves during the winter meetings. It could be interesting.

Jim Shorts
11-25-2009, 08:33 PM
You're right, you don't get it. As Boers and Bernstein would say, I must be talking to the baseball stupid. I neversaid he overpaid, I'm simply saying that he says he is broke but goes after old washed up players.

Alexei's problems are more than making the routine play. Do you not listen to the broadcast when Hawk or Stone points out that Alexei has issues with covering 2nd on DP's? Or how about not cutting the ball off? Or letting them go through? I'm sure when Paulie is in the middle of the infield he is yelling simple english terms like cut or let it go through. I could continue but why bother.

I never said Kenny needs to spend more. What I said, and I'll try to be as clear as I can, I expect the Sox to compete on a championship level. That means going after guys that will help you everyday. Does not mean trying to turn every crap or washed up player into a polished turd. Yes, it has worked before but it doesn't work everytime. Colon? Not so good last year and I remember alot of people here being excited about him being a solid 5th starter. With all of this being said, I don't mean Keeny has to break the bank. In today's baseball economics, you can probably get good everyday players at a good price. I don't understand the rush to already use 2mil on bench players. Would there really have been a huge line to bid on Omar or Jones later in the FA period? Probably not.

I love when the naive call others "baseball stupid"

Listening to B&B does not make one smarter.

Did Kenny and Jerry spend your money? I think you stole DickAllen's password is what I think

Lip Man 1
11-25-2009, 08:38 PM
This is a low risk, good upside potential for a BENCH player...let's not forget that point OK?

Like Kenny said, Jones, Kotsay, Vizquel coming off the bench, spot start, pinch hit, that's a big improvement from the dung they had this past year.

Are they done? Of course not....so let's wait and see what else is going on.

Kenny is filling gaps where he can and when he can before the league meetings in about two weeks, I think that's when you'll see the bigger moves...i.e. lead off, bullpen, middle of the order.

Lip

Sufferin
11-25-2009, 09:55 PM
What a waste of a roster spot. AS JB 98 said, I'll take 500K to contirbute nothing to the team. If you're going to sing guys like this, can't you get someone who can pinch run for one of our clydesdales? wha't the point in getting a washed up broken player. Many poeple ask if Lillibridge would have been better. IMO yes, at leas the can contribute from the bench. Jones can't do shiat anymore, he's proved that over the last 3 years. Let's see, Jones make sus older, slower and is bad in EVERY FACET of the game. I know it's not alot of money, but if you're going to piss 500K away ont eh 35th man, shouldn't you either be giving a young-un experience or spending it on a guy who can contribute soemthing meaningful? Jones will not add anything to this team other than an example of how you can waste your potential. Maybe this is all part of a message to Ramirez; "Look Alexei, see what can happen if you are lazy?"

Loved the Kotsay signing, liked and understood the Vizquel signing. This one? Waste of money and time that could be spent on younger and/or better players. Are we trying to build a championship baseball team or a retirement home?

Somewhere Bobby Cox must be laughing his ass off.

Jpgr91
11-25-2009, 10:05 PM
What a waste of a roster spot. AS JB 98 said, I'll take 500K to contirbute nothing to the team. If you're going to sing guys like this, can't you get someone who can pinch run for one of our clydesdales? wha't the point in getting a washed up broken player. Many poeple ask if Lillibridge would have been better. IMO yes, at leas the can contribute from the bench. Jones can't do shiat anymore, he's proved that over the last 3 years. Let's see, Jones make sus older, slower and is bad in EVERY FACET of the game. I know it's not alot of money, but if you're going to piss 500K away ont eh 35th man, shouldn't you either be giving a young-un experience or spending it on a guy who can contribute soemthing meaningful? Jones will not add anything to this team other than an example of how you can waste your potential. Maybe this is all part of a message to Ramirez; "Look Alexei, see what can happen if you are lazy?"

Loved the Kotsay signing, liked and understood the Vizquel signing. This one? Waste of money and time that could be spent on younger and/or better players. Are we trying to build a championship baseball team or a retirement home?

Somewhere Bobby Cox must be laughing his ass off.

If Jones does not contribute the Sox can simply let him go. A guy like Lillibrige can be easily found. There is a very good chance that he does not contribute, but what if they get lucky and Jones recaptures some of his old form?

slavko
11-25-2009, 10:29 PM
And finish off the oldest bench in history. :moonwalk:

Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses....

I only think that this is good only to teach to the young players how to play the game.

I don't see this being much of a benefit to the team. Maybe this is the first start to a team that catches lightning in a bottle.

Some of these guys saw Benjamin Franklin trying it.

Looks like its going to be a maxwell street off season spending spree.

You mean the "old" Maxwell St, right?

How about improving the starting lineup then get bench guys later? FA begins and the Sox attack bench players. Awesome.

Ever work for a boss who answered every question with "take care of the little things and the big things take care of themselves?" KW may be channeling that guy.

Brian26
11-25-2009, 10:30 PM
How about improving the starting lineup then get bench guys later? FA begins and the Sox attack bench players. Awesome.

Relax. Every respected writer in the baseball media feels like this off-season will be very similar to last year in that it will be long and drawn-out. Everyone needs to wait and see where the chips fall.

a.) The market is still in the process of correcting itself.

b.) Kenny's probably going to make a move in a trade instead of signing a big-name FA. No trade is going to happen this early.

thomas35forever
11-25-2009, 10:45 PM
I think you'll have to wait for eight misfortunes first: AJ to get acute radiation poisoning; Rios to catch gigantism after an overdose of nerve tonic; Beckham to be arrested and looking at 6 consecutive life sentences; Alexei to vanish off the face of the earth; Quentin to be sidelined while helping a woman from a burning building; Teahen to lose in a barroom brawl; Danks to be hypnotized into thinking he's a chicken; and finally for Pauly to be cut for not shaving his "sideburns".

Then, Kenny may call upon you :D:.
This post = win.

You actually matched up each player according to position. Good work.:thumbsup:

soxinem1
11-25-2009, 10:52 PM
How about improving the starting lineup then get bench guys later? FA begins and the Sox attack bench players. Awesome.

We will not be players in the major free agent class. Holliday, Bay, and Damon will not be here until at least 2015.

Something tells me Pods or Crisp will be in the OF here in 2010, with Gary Matthews, Jr. (if LAA sends a lot of $$$$ with, which will probably happen anywhere he is sent to) running in third place.

And don't be suprised to see Austin Kearns, or someone like him, in a White Sox uniform in ST 2010.

soxinem1
11-25-2009, 10:54 PM
I think you'll have to wait for eight misfortunes first: AJ to get acute radiation poisoning; Rios to catch gigantism after an overdose of nerve tonic; Beckham to be arrested and looking at 6 consecutive life sentences; Alexei to vanish off the face of the earth; Quentin to be sidelined while helping a woman from a burning building; Teahen to lose in a barroom brawl; Danks to be hypnotized into thinking he's a chicken; and finally for Pauly to be cut for not shaving his "sideburns".

Then, Kenny may call upon you :D:.

This sounds like that episode of The Simpson's when Mr. Burns put together the team of MLB ringers for the company softball team!!!!:cool:

soltrain21
11-25-2009, 10:54 PM
We will not be players in the major free agent class. Holliday, Bay, and Damon will not be here until at least 2015.

Something tells me Pods or Crisp will be in the OF here in 2010, with Gary Matthews, Jr. (if LAA sends a lot of $$$$ with, which will probably happen anywhere he is sent to) running in third place.

And don't be suprised to see Austin Kearns, or someone like him, in a White Sox uniform in ST 2010.

And this has already jumped the shark.

thomas35forever
11-25-2009, 10:57 PM
This sounds like that episode of The Simpson's when Mr. Burns put together the team of MLB ringers for the company softball team!!!!:cool:
Read my previous post. That's exactly what happens.

soxinem1
11-25-2009, 11:01 PM
Read my previous post. That's exactly what happens.

I see it now. Don't know how I missed it!

http://blog.mixtape.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/homer-doh-square.jpg

The Immigrant
11-25-2009, 11:07 PM
Did the White Sox really sign a Boras client, or did Jones part ways with him before the signing? Or does it not matter who the agent is if the player is willing to sign for $500k?

cards press box
11-25-2009, 11:42 PM
And for all you Thome fans, it still leaves the door open for him to return, but probably slams the door on any chance of getting Matsui.

I don't know about that. So far, the Sox bench is Mark Kotsay, Omar Vizquel and Andruw Jones. The Sox will add a back up catcher (maybe Henry Blanco). That's 4 spots. The Sox will have 8 everday players: Carlos Quentin, Alex Rios, Mark Teahan, Alexei Ramirez, Gordon Beckham, Paul Konerko, A.J. Pierzynski and one more outfielder).

If the Sox carry 11 pitchers, they would have two more spots: a backup infielder (probably Jayson Nix) and a DH. While many teams carry 12 pitchers, 11 certainly is not out of the question, given the fact that the Sox have a strong starting five. If they keep Daniel Hudson as the long reliever, that would leave 5 slots: Bobby Jenks, Matt Thornton, Tony Pena, D.J. Carrasco and one more pitcher, perhaps Scott Linebrink, if he rebounds. If the Sox want to send Hudson to AAA, they have internal options for the bullpen, such as Jhonny Nunez.

If the Sox keep 12 pitchers, then Nix might be the odd man out, either going to AAA or being traded. Vizquel can back up SS, 2B and 3B and Kotsay can back up 1B. The Sox will likely keep Lillibridge at AAA for organizational depth.

I believe that the Sox will sign an outfielder/lead off man, possibly Coco Crisp, and a lefty DH, maybe Hideki Matsui or maybe Jim Thome. I don't think that the Vizquel or Jones signings will prevent the Sox from making these moves. What's more, Jones could provide a good righty compliment to a lefty DH such as Matsui or Thome.

So is this our DH?

See above. At most, Jones will DH against some tough lefties.

Lundind1
11-26-2009, 12:13 AM
I like the sound reasoning in the previous post. I hope that the Sox take a good look around for a solid DH. I could actually see them working out something for another reliever. Best case scenario.

Rohan
11-26-2009, 02:45 AM
It's the same joke in two different threads. I'd have no problem if there was any originality. :shrug:

Atleast we can still have fun :smile:

Hasn't Williams been eyeing Jones for some time now?

BadBobbyJenks
11-26-2009, 03:46 AM
And now for Jason Giambi at DH and Kenny's master plan is complete!

doublem23
11-26-2009, 05:14 AM
What a waste of a roster spot. AS JB 98 said, I'll take 500K to contirbute nothing to the team. If you're going to sing guys like this, can't you get someone who can pinch run for one of our clydesdales? wha't the point in getting a washed up broken player. Many poeple ask if Lillibridge would have been better. IMO yes, at leas the can contribute from the bench. Jones can't do shiat anymore, he's proved that over the last 3 years. Let's see, Jones make sus older, slower and is bad in EVERY FACET of the game. I know it's not alot of money, but if you're going to piss 500K away ont eh 35th man, shouldn't you either be giving a young-un experience or spending it on a guy who can contribute soemthing meaningful? Jones will not add anything to this team other than an example of how you can waste your potential. Maybe this is all part of a message to Ramirez; "Look Alexei, see what can happen if you are lazy?"

Loved the Kotsay signing, liked and understood the Vizquel signing. This one? Waste of money and time that could be spent on younger and/or better players. Are we trying to build a championship baseball team or a retirement home?

Somewhere Bobby Cox must be laughing his ass off.

This post is ridiculous.

A) Jones isn't ancient, as you seem to think he is. He's going to turn 33 in April. I know he's struggled the last few years, but that's why he's only making $500 K this season. No, he's not a fresh faced whippersnapper, but let's can the talk like he's Julio Franco. Pods struck lightning in a bottle last year, after three injury-plagued seasons and guess how old he was last year? 33.

B) Didn't we learn our lesson last year by just giving bench spots away to young, uproven guys? What, do you want to see more Brent Lillibridge, Josh Fields, and Wilson Betemit? Let's look at the bench for the World Series champion Yankees... Eric Hinske (31), Jerry Hairston (33), Cody Ransom (33), Jose Molina (34).

Lillian
11-26-2009, 05:58 AM
Adding depth by shoring up the bench also affords more flexibility for trades. If a potential trade were to transpire in which Alexei or Konerko were requested by the other team, having Vizquel and Kotsay could provide adequate position fillers to take their places. In the meantime, they are upgrades as bench players.

I suspect that Jones will be given every opportunity to be an every day DH. He fits the profile of a player who could also play a position if needed. That was something that Kenny and Ozzie have stated they wanted. While he is certainly no longer a Gold Glove Centerfielder, he could play a corner outfield position.

doublem23
11-26-2009, 06:04 AM
Adding depth by shoring up the bench also affords more flexibility for trades. If a potential trade were to transpire in which Alexei or Konerko were requested by the other team, having Vizquel and Kotsay could provide adequate position fillers to take their places. In the meantime, they are upgrades as bench players.

I suspect that Jones will be given every opportunity to be an every day DH. He fits the profile of a player who could also play a position if needed. That was something that Kenny and Ozzie have stated they wanted. While he is certainly no longer a Gold Glove Centerfielder, he could play a corner outfield position.

Let's not go crazy here.

doublem23
11-26-2009, 06:52 AM
Hasn't Williams been eyeing Jones for some time now?

I think Williams was trying to get Jones as early as 2004.

NLaloosh
11-26-2009, 07:49 AM
I think Williams was trying to get Jones as early as 2004.

I think that's where we need to look back to in order to get a glimpse of Kenny's next move.

Tragg
11-26-2009, 09:04 AM
B) Didn't we learn our lesson last year by just giving bench spots away to young, uproven guys? What, do you want to see more Brent Lillibridge, Josh Fields, and Wilson Betemit? Let's look at the bench for the World Series champion Yankees... Eric Hinske (31), Jerry Hairston (33), Cody Ransom (33), Jose Molina (34).

As sheerly bench players, good moves. Our good young outfielders need at last another year of minor league experience.
Bench players.
But we still need a RF and a DH.
Bench players.

wassagstdu
11-26-2009, 09:14 AM
If we are talking about realistic expectations, then I would rather have Dewayne Wise than Andruw Jones. But I think this signing is more of a lottery ticket. Spending that money/slot on Wise would (I think) likely have been more productive. But the prospect of winning the lottery is a pleasant distraction from a dreary reality.

Boondock Saint
11-26-2009, 09:28 AM
If we are talking about realistic expectations, then I would rather have Dewayne Wise than Andruw Jones. But I think this signing is more of a lottery ticket. Spending that money/slot on Wise would (I think) likely have been more productive. But the prospect of winning the lottery is a pleasant distraction from a dreary reality.

This post is broken. Please fix it.

In what world is Dewayne Wise more valuable than Andruw Jones? Yeah, Jones isn't as good as he used to be, but Wise was never good, and he never will be. Jones at least has a chance to become a good bench player.

Shoeless
11-26-2009, 09:57 AM
Maybe the sky IS falling. He's a Boras client. With no leverage.

That must have been an interesting meeting...

"Hey man, I know you used to be good, but you kinda suck now."

ChiTownTrojan
11-26-2009, 10:03 AM
I like the idea of adding veterans with histories of playing on winning teams, if only for locker room presence. The last few years this team has been lacking in clubhouse leadership. With a starting lineup featuring mostly guys who are either young or quiet, why not get that leadership from the bench?

Brian26
11-26-2009, 10:44 AM
I like the idea of adding veterans with histories of playing on winning teams, if only for locker room presence. The last few years this team has been lacking in clubhouse leadership. With a starting lineup featuring mostly guys who are either young or quiet, why not get that leadership from the bench?

This is a good point. The best example of this may have been the late 90's Yankees. Their bench consisted of guys like Raines, Strawberry, Fielder, Canseco...guys that were in the twilight of their careers but added some nice presence off the bench when the Yankees had a number of younger guys in the starting lineup.

Brian26
11-26-2009, 10:46 AM
I think Williams was trying to get Jones as early as 2004.

Yep. There was a trade rumor in the summer of '04 before the deadline, centered around Mags for Andruw Jones.

Frater Perdurabo
11-26-2009, 11:13 AM
And this has already jumped the shark.

For this schtick to have jumped the shark necessarily implies that it was at one time funny.

However, when clichés manage to stick around long enough, eventually they just become part of the local vernacular. In this case, this has become part of WSI's contextual vernacular.

If I walked into work tomorrow and said, "KW always gets his man," my co-workers would look at me funny or ask if I was feeling OK. But here in WSI we all know what it means.

mwc44
11-26-2009, 11:16 AM
From Chruck garfien's tweet.

Kenny Williams says "With Andruw, Kotsay, and Vizquel, we feel our bench is taking shape to be a strong asset heading into 2010."

I can just hear it now...

"Here comes (insert name) off the bench... and this year's bench substitution is brought to you by (insert name again)'s good friends at AARP!"

:scratch:

slavko
11-26-2009, 11:22 AM
Yep. There was a trade rumor in the summer of '04 before the deadline, centered around Mags for Andruw Jones.

Thanks, couldn't remember who it was, but I knew it was a big name of ours, also that many of us were for it. Good memory.

HangWiffum
11-26-2009, 12:24 PM
This post is broken. Please fix it.

In what world is Dewayne Wise more valuable than Andruw Jones? Yeah, Jones isn't as good as he used to be, but Wise was never good, and he never will be. Jones at least has a chance to become a good bench player.

Jones can't play the outfield anymore. So by default he is a DH. Having a DH on your bench isn't a good use of a roster spot.

doublem23
11-26-2009, 12:27 PM
Jones can't play the outfield anymore. So by default he is a DH. Having a DH on your bench isn't a good use of a roster spot.

This is based on what? The guy played 66 of 75 games in CF for the Dodgers 2 years ago, 40 of 80 G in the OF last year.

Craig Grebeck
11-26-2009, 12:29 PM
Jones can't play the outfield anymore. So by default he is a DH. Having a DH on your bench isn't a good use of a roster spot.
He absolutely can play the outfield.

spawn
11-26-2009, 12:31 PM
He absolutely can play the outfield.
Craig Grebeck, I'm curious...hve you liked the Sox off season moves so far? I have no agenda in asking. It's that I know you're a stats and defense guy. Just curiousity on my part.

Craig Grebeck
11-26-2009, 12:45 PM
Craig Grebeck, I'm curious...hve you liked the Sox off season moves so far? I have no agenda in asking. It's that I know you're a stats and defense guy. Just curiousity on my part.
I really have nothing to complain about. I'm pleased about two things in particular:

1. Jermaine will not be coming back. At this point, he simply cannot play the outfield and I don't think it would be prudent to try him at 1B. After another second half collapse, I don't trust him enough to DH. A classy, classy guy -- one of my favorite Sox of all time, but we've got to move on.

2. Flexibility. While we've all talked about the importance of giving Teahen (and Beckham) a position, at least we've got the flexibility to play some guys in different positions. Vizquel can play three infield positions, all very well, and that's encouraging. Jones is better suited at the corners, but he can play CF as well. He could be a good option against lefties. I'm willing to wait and see with Teahen's defense. If he is adequate and Quentin plays defense like he did in AZ, we could have very good team defense.

I know Kenny's got a plan, and that's visible in the signings of Jones and Vizquel.

I'm very pleased, and will be moreso if Jenks is moved for a good, young, athletic RF (think Seth Smith). I know there will be more moves, and I like the direction.

Daver
11-26-2009, 12:51 PM
I really have nothing to complain about. I'm pleased about two things in particular:

1. Jermaine will not be coming back. At this point, he simply cannot play the outfield and I don't think it would be prudent to try him at 1B. After another second half collapse, I don't trust him enough to DH. A classy, classy guy -- one of my favorite Sox of all time, but we've got to move on.

2. Flexibility. While we've all talked about the importance of giving Teahen (and Beckham) a position, at least we've got the flexibility to play some guys in different positions. Vizquel can play three infield positions, all very well, and that's encouraging. Jones is better suited at the corners, but he can play CF as well. He could be a good option against lefties. I'm willing to wait and see with Teahen's defense. If he is adequate and Quentin plays defense like he did in AZ, we could have very good team defense.

I know Kenny's got a plan, and that's visible in the signings of Jones and Vizquel.

I'm very pleased, and will be moreso if Jenks is moved for a good, young, athletic RF (think Seth Smith). I know there will be more moves, and I like the direction.

As it sits right now they have downgraded defensively at both second and third, and possibly in right field.

Craig Grebeck
11-26-2009, 12:56 PM
As it sits right now they have downgraded defensively at both second and third, and possibly in right field.
Agree to disagree regarding second base. I was no fan of Getz.

Teahen may be a downgrade. In fact I think he probably will be, but I don't think they've wedded themselves to him.

doublem23
11-26-2009, 01:09 PM
As it sits right now they have downgraded defensively at both second and third, and possibly in right field.

I'm not sure what you saw in Getz, Daver, but I think Bacon is at worst a lateral move there.

Pear-Zin-Ski
11-26-2009, 01:11 PM
I don't care who we put out there on D, but there is NO way we will ever see anything as bad as it was last year. NO way. Call me a fool, but it's not happening.

NardiWasHere
11-26-2009, 01:16 PM
You're right, you don't get it. As Boers and Bernstein would say, I must be talking to the baseball stupid.

Thanks for setting me straight. I'm stupid. Morons like myself can't understand that picking up Andruw Jones for almost the league minimum is devastating to the ballclub. If I was smart, I'd be able to comprehend how horrible it is to pay a guy 500k out of a payroll that is about two hundred times that amount.


I neversaid he overpaid, I'm simply saying that he says he is broke but goes after old washed up players.

Ok... So what is your conclusion? If it is not that he overpaid, what are you trying to say? Excuse my inability to read minds (and incomplete thoughts). I'm dumb, remember?

He says he is broke BUT goes after old washed up players

The "but" in the sentence signals that you think "saying one is broke" and "going after old washed up players" are inconsistent with each other.

Do you think people who are broke should only go after young, up-and-coming players?

Hey that sounds like a good idea! See, being stupid, I would have thought that not having money would restrict a baseball team from signing desirable young hot commodities. But I guess I'm wrong.

Alexei's problems are more than making the routine play. Do you not listen to the broadcast when Hawk or Stone points out that Alexei has issues with covering 2nd on DP's? Or how about not cutting the ball off? Or letting them go through? I'm sure when Paulie is in the middle of the infield he is yelling simple english terms like cut or let it go through. I could continue but why bother.

You're right. Why bother. I'm a lost cause.

I never said Kenny needs to spend more. What I said, and I'll try to be as clear as I can,

Great. Clarity!

I expect the Sox to compete on a championship level.

Wow, you mean business. But I don't think Andruw Jones is going to be a deciding factor in the Sox championship aspirations. Guys who are signed near the league minimum to fill out a roster don't usually have that much impact.

With all of this being said, I don't mean Keeny has to break the bank. In today's baseball economics, you can probably get good everyday players at a good price. I don't understand the rush to already use 2mil on bench players. Would there really have been a huge line to bid on Omar or Jones later in the FA period? Probably not.

Ok, so your problem with the deal was a temporal thing? Bench guys should only be signed after everyday guys?

And again you bring up the two million dollar figure. Do you keep mentioning it because you think two million dollars is a lot to spend on two players combined?

Is it because you think there are guys who are clearly better and available for 500K?

What players can be had in the FA market that satisfy your conditions:
1. Less than 2 million
2. Everyday players
3. On a Championship Caliber team

I'll let you think about it. You're a smart guy.

Frater Perdurabo
11-26-2009, 02:29 PM
40 of 80 G in the OF last year.

Good point. And some of those games were in the much larger OF at Rangers Ballpark in Arlington.

PushinWeight
11-26-2009, 07:44 PM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1237371
Caution: Hilarity and disgust await in this link


You know you have a winner on your team if they are a frequent Gold Club patron.

Lillian
11-26-2009, 10:02 PM
If the statements made by K.W. and Ozzie are sincere regarding the intended use of Jones as a bench player, we should be encouraged.
That means that they intend to acquire yet another outfielder because Jones is certainly the best current roster candidate for the third outfield spot. Therefore, we must assume that they intend to add another outfielder who is a better all around player than Jones.

The big missing offensive piece is still a power left handed bat. If that is filled by a full time DH, then Jones only playing time would be as an outfielder. I wouldn't mind an outfield of Quentin, Rios and Jones, providing there is another big left handed bat added at DH.

I know that this scenario fails to address the lead off spot, but I think Rios could provide that if he returns to his career numbers. Although his OBP has been a little low for a lead off guy, he can steal bases and hits a lot of doubles.

WhiteSox5187
11-26-2009, 10:17 PM
I'm not sure what you saw in Getz, Daver, but I think Bacon is at worst a lateral move there.

The baseball people I talked to said that Getz had no range at second and Beckham was made for the middle infield (one guy made a Ryne Sandberg comparison). So, yea, I don't think our IF defense is any worse.

Tragg
11-26-2009, 10:57 PM
If we are talking about realistic expectations, then I would rather have Dewayne Wise than Andruw Jones.
Yikes.

munchman33
11-27-2009, 02:27 AM
As it sits right now they have downgraded defensively at both second and third, and possibly in right field.

You say that like you're not the only person on the planet not related to Chris Getz who believes that....

waldo_the_wolf
11-27-2009, 06:59 AM
My :twocents: are the same as a lot of the others here: The price is certainly right and hey, who knows what could happen.

And NardiWasHere, forgive me but you make my sides hurt. :roflmao:

NLaloosh
11-27-2009, 08:04 AM
I think this team has the potential to be excellent defensively now. If they were to add a really good defensive outfielder, say a B.J. Upton for example, this could be the best Sox defensive team in a long time.

jabrch
11-27-2009, 08:38 AM
There are very few $500K players that anyone should be excited about signing. This one is no different.

Want the sizzle? This isn't it. Want the filler - here it is.

wassagstdu
11-27-2009, 09:03 AM
In what world is Dewayne Wise more valuable than Andruw Jones? Yeah, Jones isn't as good as he used to be, but Wise was never good, and he never will be. Jones at least has a chance to become a good bench player. [emphasis added]

For the past 3 years Jones has not been better than Wise at the plate, and Wise is better in the field. And Wise is a gamer. There is a chance that Jones may regain enough of his former greatness to become a good bench player, and there is a chance that I may win the lottery.

hi im skot
11-27-2009, 10:35 AM
[emphasis added]

For the past 3 years Jones has not been better than Wise at the plate, and Wise is better in the field. And Wise is a gamer. There is a chance that Jones may regain enough of his former greatness to become a good bench player, and there is a chance that I may win the lottery.

You can't win if you don't play.

doublem23
11-27-2009, 10:56 AM
[emphasis added]

For the past 3 years Jones has not been better than Wise at the plate, and Wise is better in the field. And Wise is a gamer. There is a chance that Jones may regain enough of his former greatness to become a good bench player, and there is a chance that I may win the lottery.

Wise is a "gamer?" What does that even mean? And better in the field? That claim is dubious, at best. If you're going to take bets on who is more likely to be an average MLB player in 2010, there's no doubt you'd have to take Jones, considering Wise's career year was 2008 when he hit .248.

Finally, Jones is making $500 K. Come on.

skobabe8
11-27-2009, 01:14 PM
Wise is a "gamer?" What does that even mean? And better in the field? That claim is dubious, at best. If you're going to take bets on who is more likely to be an average MLB player in 2010, there's no doubt you'd have to take Jones, considering Wise's career year was 2008 when he hit .248.

Finally, Jones is making $500 K. Come on.

Exactly. What evealuation was made that declared Wise is a 'gamer'? And why wasnt he a gamer for the majority of games he played last year?

soltrain21
11-27-2009, 01:30 PM
Wise is a gamer? Does he play D and D or something?

Dibbs
11-27-2009, 02:00 PM
People are really upset about this signing? Really? Worst case scenario is you cut him loose with $500K. He still has potential if his age is correct. It is worth a shot. Nothing to lose.

doublem23
11-27-2009, 02:01 PM
People are really upset about this signing? Really? Worst case scenario is you cut him loose with $500K. He still has potential if his age is correct. It is worth a shot. Nothing to lose.

I can't figure it out, apparently some people think that there are proven players with no risk out there available for 1/2 a million dollars.

Marqhead
11-27-2009, 02:09 PM
Wise is a gamer? Does he play D and D or something?

No, gamers only play PC games not consoles or anything else. Those aren't true gamers.

NardiWasHere
11-27-2009, 02:39 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:_cTLga_8u3YjzM:http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/117629/340x.jpg

=

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:b_Gl3IU4iJfGgM:http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/news/00024158.jpg

CanBuehrleWait
11-27-2009, 06:31 PM
No complaints here. How about some bullpen help now?

soxinem1
11-27-2009, 09:09 PM
Why should anyone have an issue with this signing? After all, it would cost about $500K to keep Wise on the team in 2010.........

Plus, Jones is intended to be a bench player, which is something we really need. If he has his 2009 numbers with a better batting average in 300 AB's or less, I think the team would be very happy.

Now if he gets motivated and plays like he's 32 instead of 52, produces, and pushes himself to the point Ozzie cannot keep him out of the lineup he could be our biggest steal since Esteban Loaiza (2003, not 2008).

But if he comes to camp looking like the Michelin Tire Man, then he's gone.

veeter
11-27-2009, 09:26 PM
No complaints here. How about some bullpen help now?Yes, the Sox need help there. Otherwise, Kenny's simply stacking up veterans for a pennant race.

Daver
11-27-2009, 09:49 PM
I'm not sure what you saw in Getz, Daver, but I think Bacon is at worst a lateral move there.

I saw basically the same thing I saw in Ray Durham, a guy that could play the position, not hurt you as a bottom of the order hitter, could use his speed to his advantage, but was never going to be an all star.

From what I saw of Beckham both in college and at the MLB level was a guy that could be a mediocre middle infielder with a good bat, or an above average corner infielder with a good bat.

Suffice it to say, moving Beckham to yet another new position to make room for Mark Teahen is a defensive downgrade in the infield overall, even if Gordon manages to play second better than he did SS in college.

For a team that was one of the worst teams defensively in the league last year, some of the moves made this offseason have me wondering if they are on a mission to be the absolute worst.

Jim Shorts
11-28-2009, 12:01 AM
Were Jones and Ozzie in ATL at the same time, maybe when Ozzie was coaching 3rd?

waldo_the_wolf
11-28-2009, 12:08 AM
Were Jones and Ozzie in ATL at the same time, maybe when Ozzie was coaching 3rd?

They played together in Atlanta in 1998 and 1999.

soxinem1
11-28-2009, 10:42 AM
I saw basically the same thing I saw in Ray Durham, a guy that could play the position, not hurt you as a bottom of the order hitter, could use his speed to his advantage, but was never going to be an all star.

From what I saw of Beckham both in college and at the MLB level was a guy that could be a mediocre middle infielder with a good bat, or an above average corner infielder with a good bat.

Suffice it to say, moving Beckham to yet another new position to make room for Mark Teahen is a defensive downgrade in the infield overall, even if Gordon manages to play second better than he did SS in college.

For a team that was one of the worst teams defensively in the league last year, some of the moves made this offseason have me wondering if they are on a mission to be the absolute worst.

If Getz turned into a two-time All-Star who had 100 HR, 200 SB's, and score over 700 runs in his first seven seasons that would be very solid, as that is what Ray Durham did. And we can use that production, be it leading off or at the bottom of the order.

But I agree with the rest of your statement. Moving your best young player (who made big strides defensively) to make room for a real 3B is one thing, but for a non-power hitting, iron-gloved strikeout machine does make one wonder what the deal is here.

JNS
11-28-2009, 12:42 PM
But I agree with the rest of your statement. Moving your best young player (who made big strides defensively) to make room for a real 3B is one thing, but for a non-power hitting, iron-gloved strikeout machine does make one wonder what the deal is here.

The scouts in their infinite wisdom seem to think that Teahen will hit for more power in the Cell and strike out less (why I don't know). KW must be basing his move on something other than the point that Teahen has been a Sox killer for a couple of seasons. They all seem to think his line drives into the LF corner will be dingers at the Cell.

The numbers don't lie and in that sense it is a bit baffling. Bacon says he's happy with the move to 2B and that it will help his career whatever that means. But for Teahen? Well, KW has been right before when everyone thought he was nuts - I've been bad about that myself, so let's ee what Teahen can actually do over 100 games. Unless he turns out to be Wilson Betimit it'll take a while to see if he's worked out or not.

I'm not worried about Bacon at 2B. Whatever he did or didn't do in college, he's a pro now and has shown his ability to grow and learn on the job. So I certainly don't see moving him to 2B as a downgrade from Getz - probably a huge upgrade in the long run, but whether it was worth it to get Teahen I don't know and won't till next June or July.

mshawks
11-29-2009, 10:19 PM
Now if he gets motivated and plays like he's 32 instead of 52, produces, and pushes himself to the point Ozzie cannot keep him out of the lineup he could be our biggest steal since Esteban Loaiza (2003, not 2008).



The reward is potentially very good here and there is no risk. Rolling the dice on $500,000 for the 1 in 5 chance Andruw Jones regains something he had not so long ago is well worth it.

jabrch
11-29-2009, 11:46 PM
The reward is potentially very good here and there is no risk. Rolling the dice on $500,000 for the 1 in 5 chance Andruw Jones regains something he had not so long ago is well worth it.


If it were 1 in 5, I'd be thrilled! To me, it is more like 1 in 20. That said, I still have no problem with rolling the dice here.

500K to a MLB team with a 100mm payroll is nothing.

mshawks
11-29-2009, 11:57 PM
If it were 1 in 5, I'd be thrilled! To me, it is more like 1 in 20. That said, I still have no problem with rolling the dice here.

500K to a MLB team with a 100mm payroll is nothing.

Yeah, I just pulled those odds out of my behind.

Dub25
12-09-2009, 12:09 AM
Thanks for setting me straight. I'm stupid. Morons like myself can't understand that picking up Andruw Jones for almost the league minimum is devastating to the ballclub. If I was smart, I'd be able to comprehend how horrible it is to pay a guy 500k out of a payroll that is about two hundred times that amount.




Ok... So what is your conclusion? If it is not that he overpaid, what are you trying to say? Excuse my inability to read minds (and incomplete thoughts). I'm dumb, remember?

He says he is broke BUT goes after old washed up players

The "but" in the sentence signals that you think "saying one is broke" and "going after old washed up players" are inconsistent with each other.

Do you think people who are broke should only go after young, up-and-coming players?

Hey that sounds like a good idea! See, being stupid, I would have thought that not having money would restrict a baseball team from signing desirable young hot commodities. But I guess I'm wrong.



You're right. Why bother. I'm a lost cause.



Great. Clarity!



Wow, you mean business. But I don't think Andruw Jones is going to be a deciding factor in the Sox championship aspirations. Guys who are signed near the league minimum to fill out a roster don't usually have that much impact.



Ok, so your problem with the deal was a temporal thing? Bench guys should only be signed after everyday guys?

And again you bring up the two million dollar figure. Do you keep mentioning it because you think two million dollars is a lot to spend on two players combined?

Is it because you think there are guys who are clearly better and available for 500K?

What players can be had in the FA market that satisfy your conditions:
1. Less than 2 million
2. Everyday players
3. On a Championship Caliber team

I'll let you think about it. You're a smart guy.

Yep, you summed up how much of a dumbass you are. I don't even need to respond to your nonsense. Why do you think I waited so long to check back in. I only did for a laugh and it was worth it... dumbass.

Dub25
12-09-2009, 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dub25 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2388942#post2388942)
I never said Kenny needs to spend more. What I said, and I'll try to be as clear as I can,

Great. Clarity!

I also like how you cut off my thought. Read moron... do you understand how to read english? "say what, again."

Mod edit: Warning for personal attacks. Do it again, earn a vacation.

g0g0
12-09-2009, 01:33 PM
low risk, high reward imo.


exactly!

soxinem1
12-12-2009, 03:34 PM
I have nothing further to add. It just looked silly having this thread response total sitting below the Mendoza Line.:smile:

NardiWasHere
12-12-2009, 04:52 PM
Yep, you summed up how much of a dumbass you are. I don't even need to respond to your nonsense. Why do you think I waited so long to check back in. I only did for a laugh and it was worth it... dumbass.



I also like how you cut off my thought. Read moron... do you understand how to read english? "say what, again."



A few questions:

If my post didn't need/deserve a response, why did you respond to it twice in a six min. span?

You seem concerned about people speaking, writing, and reading in English. You bashed Alexei earlier in the thread for not knowing enough English for your tastes and now you seem concerned that I have trouble reading in English. Whats this about?

Why are you such an angry guy? Admittedly you are incredibly smart (nay, a genius) ... but angry nonetheless.

Don't be mad. Maybe you'll end up being right and the signing of a backup outfielder for league minimum will cripple this team for decades to come. Until that happens, relax.