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View Full Version : Finally - proof Tom Yawkey was racist


Fenway
11-19-2009, 03:12 AM
Red Sox historian Glenn Stout has discovered an article in Sports Illustrated from 1965 that proves Tom Yawkey was a racist and it is direct quotes from Yawkey that convict him.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1077374/1/index.htm


Stout posted on his blog yesterday

http://verbplow.blogspot.com/2009/11/tom-yawkey-race-and-smoking-gun.html


Red Sox fans over the age of 50 certainly were suspect in their feelings about Yawkey but this should settle the debate once and for all.

Shameful. Time to kick Yawkey out pof Cooperstown.

spawn
11-19-2009, 08:40 AM
I don't know if you were being facetious or not, but if they're going to kick him out, then Ty Cobb needs to go, along with Cap Anson, Kenesaw Mountain Landis, and everyone responsible for keeping blacks out of baseball.

asindc
11-19-2009, 09:04 AM
Red Sox historian Glenn Stout has discovered an article in Sports Illustrated from 1965 that proves Tom Yawkey was a racist and it is direct quotes from Yawkey that convict him.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1077374/1/index.htm


Stout posted on his blog yesterday

http://verbplow.blogspot.com/2009/11/tom-yawkey-race-and-smoking-gun.html


Red Sox fans over the age of 50 certainly were suspect in their feelings about Yawkey but this should settle the debate once and for all.

Shameful. Time to kick Yawkey out pof Cooperstown.

As if there was any real doubt. By the way, that "man of his times" excuse is weak bull****. He was who we thought he was.

asindc
11-19-2009, 09:10 AM
I don't know if you were being facetious or not, but if they're going to kick him out, then Ty Cobb needs to go, along with Cap Anson, Kenesaw Mountain Landis, and everyone responsible for keeping blacks out of baseball.

By the way, Rogers Hornsby might also be a candidate for this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Hornsby

slavko
11-19-2009, 10:10 AM
I read it. Don't know any more than I did before. Yawkey's words denote casual racism only. What was and wasn't on the field we all knew about in the first place. Spawn's right. Baseball is/was a game dominated by Southerners who have a longer playing season and Southerners of "Gone Are the Days" were mainly racist.

May as well set fire to the HOF.

Fenway
11-19-2009, 01:10 PM
I read it. Don't know any more than I did before. Yawkey's words denote casual racism only. What was and wasn't on the field we all knew about in the first place. Spawn's right. Baseball is/was a game dominated by Southerners who have a longer playing season and Southerners of "Gone Are the Days" were mainly racist.

May as well set fire to the HOF.

We looking for a complete ballplayer - so a scout signs Willie Mays and Boston says give him the bonus but tear the contract up (1949)

I find it fascinating that Yawkey in the SI article was fond of White Sox baseball as being 'the real game'

The 87 million dollar domed stadium would have been a disaster

tacosalbarojas
11-19-2009, 02:18 PM
By the way, Rogers Hornsby might also be a candidate for this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Hornsby
Don't leave Tris Speaker behind.

SI1020
11-19-2009, 02:25 PM
I must be a terrible racist because I took something entirely different from that article. There's a lot of interesting tidbits there. I followed baseball back then but don't remember the Red Sox doing so well at home and so poorly on the road. Frank Malzone commenting that after you reached a salary of 30K (about 180k in today's money) you couldn't expect much more of a raise sounds funny in light of today's baseball economics. Who could have known in two brief years the Red Sox would shake up the baseball world and begin to become the baseball juggernaut they are now. Anyway Yawkey is long dead now so he will be spared the living death sentence that Al Campanis and Jimmy the Greek got.

TDog
11-19-2009, 03:01 PM
I don't know if you were being facetious or not, but if they're going to kick him out, then Ty Cobb needs to go, along with Cap Anson, Kenesaw Mountain Landis, and everyone responsible for keeping blacks out of baseball.

The difference being that Tom Yawkey never played major league baseball. He is remembered in Cooperstown for more intangible off-the-field contributions. I think Landis did more harm than good to the game, but he is there because baseball was what it was for more than during the '20s, '30s and '40s because of him. Of course, racism would be one more reason to keep Shoeless Joe Jackson out of the Hall of Fame.

I never believed there was any doubt Yawkey was a racist. The Red Sox were the last team to integrate, and I've read that fans protested to bring up Pumpsie Green.

spawn
11-19-2009, 03:04 PM
The difference being that Tom Yawkey never played major league baseball. He is remembered in Cooperstown for more intangible off-the-field contributions. I think Landis did more harm than good to the game, but he is there because baseball was what it was for more than during the '20s, '30s and '40s because of him. Of course, racism would be one more reason to keep Shoeless Joe Jackson out of the Hall of Fame.

I never believed there was any doubt Yawkey was a racist. The Red Sox were the last team to integrate, and I've read that fans protested to bring up Pumpsie Green.
My point is, if you're going to kick people out of the HOF because they are racist, then there is a laundry list of members that should follow, whether they played the game or not.

TDog
11-19-2009, 03:10 PM
My point is, if you're going to kick people out of the HOF because they are racist, then there is a laundry list of members that should follow, whether they played the game or not.

Of course. But whether or not Ton Yawkey was a racist, if the Hall of Fame purged some of its less deserving members, he wouldn't last nearly as long as Bill Maseroski.

asindc
11-19-2009, 03:31 PM
Don't leave Tris Speaker behind.

Tris Speaker actually advocated for Larry Doby despite Speaker's former Klan membership, which suggests that he might have been a "social" Klansmen (like SC Justice Hugo Black apparently was). This would be in contrast to guys like Anson, Cobb, and Hornsby, who were mean SOBs across the board.

Fenway
11-19-2009, 04:28 PM
I am having second thoughts about Landis after reading some extensive SABR research on him

http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/BRJ38-Landis-special.pdf

The Negro newspapers in Chicago said he was by far the fairest judge in the city.

Landis could not stop Rickey from building up the farm system in St Louis which he feared would destroy the game so I doubt there was anything he could do about race.

The sad reality is baseball was just a reflection of American life in that era. The Capitol of our country was one one the most segregated cities in America. Baseball was not going to 'rock the boat'

Nothing was going to change until after WWII.

Landis didn't stop Veeck from buying the Phillies..in fact the entire tale from Veeck could be fiction

http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/Files/Bill_Veeck_and_the_1943_sale_of_the_Phillies.pdf

soxinem1
11-19-2009, 06:08 PM
Yawkey may have been a yahoo, but to be honest, many players, owners, managers, and commissioners of the sport fall into the same boat.

People from all walks of life were no different, from the President right on down.

Why time is even wasted on this is silly. Move the **** on. The sport, and society, are much different today.

TommyJohn
11-19-2009, 06:19 PM
Landis didn't stop Veeck from buying the Phillies..in fact the entire tale from Veeck could be fiction

http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/Files/Bill_Veeck_and_the_1943_sale_of_the_Phillies.pdf
I saw that years ago, one writer belived that the whole story about buying the Phillies could be a myth. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I saw it.

BleacherBandit
11-19-2009, 06:25 PM
Shameful. Time to kick Yawkey out pof Cooperstown.

It isn't the Hall of Fame of morality and humility. Judge who gets in by their numbers primarily.

You can't set a precedent for one person, becuase as Spawn said, you'd then have to kick out Ty Cobb, Cap Anson, etc.

Then the HOF would be a joke becuase you can't have a baseball hall of fame without those names in it.

I believe in the "man of his times" argument. I would expect white men to have at least a tinge of racist tendencies no matter who they were, if they lived that long ago. We as a society need to make sure that we eradicate racism as much as possible for our future, not try to erase it from our past.

DSpivack
11-19-2009, 08:47 PM
It isn't the Hall of Fame of morality and humility. Judge who gets in by their numbers primarily.

You can't set a precedent for one person, becuase as Spawn said, you'd then have to kick out Ty Cobb, Cap Anson, etc.

Then the HOF would be a joke becuase you can't have a baseball hall of fame without those names in it.

I believe in the "man of his times" argument. I would expect white men to have at least a tinge of racist tendencies no matter who they were, if they lived that long ago. We as a society need to make sure that we eradicate racism as much as possible for our future, not try to erase it from our past.

Even in looking at Yawkey in the context of his time, though, he stands out as the owner of the last team to integrate. That alone to me says a lot.

TDog
11-20-2009, 01:42 AM
Even in looking at Yawkey in the context of his time, though, he stands out as the owner of the last team to integrate. That alone to me says a lot.

Not just a man of his time at one time, but a man behind the times at another time.

BleacherBandit
11-20-2009, 02:50 AM
Even in looking at Yawkey in the context of his time, though, he stands out as the owner of the last team to integrate. That alone to me says a lot.

Ehh, I'll agree with you. Whenever someone says that I'm always hesitant at first because somebody had to be the last to integrate their team. Then I remember it was 1959. A little slow on the times, huh? By then, Jackie Robinson, Frank Robinson, Hank Aaron, Willy Mays, and Ernie Banks had already well established themselves as being fantastic baseball players.

DSpivack
11-20-2009, 03:08 AM
Ehh, I'll agree with you. Whenever someone says that I'm always hesitant at first because somebody had to be the last to integrate their team. Then I remember it was 1959. A little slow on the times, huh? By then, Jackie Robinson, Frank Robinson, Hank Aaron, Willy Mays, and Ernie Banks had already well established themselves as being fantastic baseball players.

By 1959, Jackie Robinson had been retired... for 3 years!

SI1020
11-20-2009, 09:49 AM
In case anyone is interested.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first_black_Major_League_Baseball_players_ by_team_and_date

TheVulture
11-20-2009, 09:49 PM
I believe in the "man of his times" argument. I would expect white men to have at least a tinge of racist tendencies no matter who they were, if they lived that long ago.

Absolutely not true. Not every one then was a racist and racism is still widespread today. I've found those who are racist would like you to believe otherwise on both counts. No offense, but to suggest that all white men were racist is in itself a racist statement. There is no way you could know how one hundred million different people each felt and thought, and extremely unlikely that they all felt the same way. Therefore, you are making a judgment based on race, which is the definition of racism.

Fenway
11-21-2009, 08:43 AM
I saw that years ago, one writer believed that the whole story about buying the Phillies could be a myth. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I saw it.

Jerome Holtzman never believed the story.

In any event in those days Landis was not as all powerful as his myth would indicate. The league owners acted on their on.

Veeck really got screwed in spring training of 1953. He wanted to move the Browns to Milwaukee and the AL owners said no, only because it was too late to adjust travel plans. A week later the Boston Braves moved with no warning at all. I have read the Boston papers on microfilm from 1953 and there was no hint at all of what was going to happen.

In fact it appeared that Yawkey was going to let the Braves play at Fenway which had better subway access than Braves Field and the Braves would sell the park to Boston University (which they did anyways)

Can you imagine the numbers Eddie Mathews and Hank Aaron would have put up in Fenway? Given what happened with the Braves in 57 and 58 it is quite possible the Red Sox may have moved instead of the Braves.

BTW Yawkey was very, very rich. Some econ guru at Harvard calculated that in 1933 his worth then would be similar to Bill Gates today.

BleacherBandit
11-21-2009, 11:36 AM
Absolutely not true. Not every one then was a racist and racism is still widespread today. I've found those who are racist would like you to believe otherwise on both counts. No offense, but to suggest that all white men were racist is in itself a racist statement. There is no way you could know how one hundred million different people each felt and thought, and extremely unlikely that they all felt the same way. Therefore, you are making a judgment based on race, which is the definition of racism.

I was trying to say that it wouldn't surprise me if a white man was racist, even if we consider him a good character now. That's not to say that ever white male from the reconstruction was a racist. I must have just worded it wrong.

I feel insulted to be called a racist against my own race.

eastchicagosoxfan
11-22-2009, 12:37 PM
I am having second thoughts about Landis after reading some extensive SABR research on him

http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/BRJ38-Landis-special.pdf

The Negro newspapers in Chicago said he was by far the fairest judge in the city.

Landis could not stop Rickey from building up the farm system in St Louis which he feared would destroy the game so I doubt there was anything he could do about race.

The sad reality is baseball was just a reflection of American life in that era. The Capitol of our country was one one the most segregated cities in America. Baseball was not going to 'rock the boat'

Nothing was going to change until after WWII.

Landis didn't stop Veeck from buying the Phillies..in fact the entire tale from Veeck could be fiction

http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/Files/Bill_Veeck_and_the_1943_sale_of_the_Phillies.pdf
Unfortunately too many people forget that Plesy vs Fergeson was decided in 1896. Separate but equal was upheld by the Supreme Court. The Negro League existed, and for some people that was enough. I don't think there's ANY evidence to suggest that any of the owners during Landis's reign even suggested integration. There were plenty of racist players, Cobb and Speaker are two of the most prominent, but there's evidence that both grew beyond their racist ways. Speaker worked extensively with Larry Doby, teaching him how to play center field. Cobb established a hospital in a predominantly African-American area of Atlanta. Landis had a black chauffeur, and Landis left him money in his will. These guys weren't saints, but I think we see their lives as young men and assume they lived their lives without growing.