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View Full Version : Greinke wins Cy Young


salty99
11-17-2009, 01:07 PM
Congrats...

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091115&content_id=7669424&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

DonnieDarko
11-17-2009, 01:10 PM
Good! At least this is one "official" award besides the AL Pitcher GG that I can agree with. Dude had a stellar--possibly career--year, and I only wish him the best.

oeo
11-17-2009, 01:10 PM
Hey, at least they got something right. Glad to see they didn't let his team sucking get in the way.

The AL Cy Young has now come out of the AL Central in four straight years (Santana, Sabathia, Lee, and now Greinke).

munchman33
11-17-2009, 01:19 PM
Hey, at least they got something right. Glad to see they didn't let his team sucking get in the way.

The AL Cy Young has now come out of the AL Central in four straight years (Santana, Sabathia, Lee, and now Greinke).

And if the trend continues, Greinke will be pitching somewhere else soon!

Pear-Zin-Ski
11-17-2009, 01:20 PM
Hey, at least they got something right. Glad to see they didn't let his team sucking get in the way.

The AL Cy Young has now come out of the AL Central in four straight years (Santana, Sabathia, Lee, and now Greinke).

Let's make it five! #44! :cool:

Congrats to Zack. He won't be able to bring KC out of the hole they've been in for a long while by himself though.

Oblong
11-17-2009, 02:34 PM
I'd like to know who the writer was that left Greinke off his ballot. This was truly a remarkable performance this year. A special year. I hope he can sustain it too.

Boondock Saint
11-17-2009, 02:37 PM
Greinke was a no-brainer. Congrats.

asindc
11-17-2009, 02:43 PM
But wait, Greinke only won 16 games! Well deserved. Though I had my doubts about them getting it done, I'm glad the writers got it right.

tstrike2000
11-17-2009, 02:46 PM
No argument here, a dominant season despite being on a poor team.

JermaineDye05
11-17-2009, 02:48 PM
I wish we had traded for him. I always liked him, even though he was mediocre the past couple of seasons.

goon
11-17-2009, 02:50 PM
Greinke was above and beyond the best candidate. What a great season for him.

JermaineDye05
11-17-2009, 02:50 PM
An AL Central pitcher has won the Cy Young 5 of the past 6 seasons.

Let's see if Jake can make a run for it in 2010.

thomas35forever
11-17-2009, 03:19 PM
No surprise there. I originally thought Verlander should have won it, but Greinke was just lights out this year and Verlander couldn't help his team avoid a collapse. BTW, I know the votes were due before that game.

kittle42
11-17-2009, 03:23 PM
Waiting to hear from the "wins are the be-all, end-all" crowd.

oeo
11-17-2009, 03:25 PM
I wish we had traded for him. I always liked him, even though he was mediocre the past couple of seasons.

I don't think he was ever available, unless of course you wanted to pay a steep price.

Shoeless_Jeff
11-17-2009, 03:28 PM
He deserved it. No doubt about it. If he played for a better team, he probably would have won over 20 games.

spawn
11-17-2009, 04:10 PM
Congrats Zack. Much deserved.

VenturaFan23
11-17-2009, 04:14 PM
Glad they got this one right. He'd obviously have a lot more W's if the team around him was better, but thankfully it wasn't about that. Congrats Zack.

doublem23
11-17-2009, 04:27 PM
Really a remarkable comeback story, considering where he was just a few short years ago. The best candidate won, too bad for him he's stuck in that baseball sinkhole.

goofymsfan
11-17-2009, 04:41 PM
Congrats to Zach. He and Felix both had a good shot at it. Felix hurt his chances at the beginning of the season even though he finished strong. Zach was strong all season long. Hopefully this will light a fire under Felix for the entire season next year!

october23sp
11-17-2009, 04:48 PM
Shocked that he won but he deserved it the most. I'm suprised the voters got it right.

TDog
11-17-2009, 04:52 PM
But wait, Greinke only won 16 games! Well deserved. Though I had my doubts about them getting it done, I'm glad the writers got it right.

It isn't as if there were any 20-game winners, though.

Greinke used to be a head case who couldn't get it together. Maybe he will be again in the future, but he had a great season.

I'm also happy to see that Andrew Bailey didn't get any votes despite having a lower ERA, striking out more hitters per inning and allowing a lower batting average against him.

goofymsfan
11-17-2009, 05:05 PM
It isn't as if there were any 20-game winners, though.

Greinke used to be a head case who couldn't get it together. Maybe he will be again in the future, but he had a great season.

I'm also happy to see that Andrew Bailey didn't get any votes despite having a lower ERA, striking out more hitters per inning and allowing a lower batting average against him.

While Felix Hernandez didn't have 20 wins, he did have 19. Zach was well deserving of the award, and like I said before, maybe this will keep Felix focused all year long next season.

johnnyg83
11-17-2009, 05:19 PM
In Greinke's 8 losses, the Royals scored 15 runs total.

MeteorsSox4367
11-17-2009, 05:41 PM
Nice to see someone from a mid-major market win the award. Plus, Greinke battled through a lot of personal issues.

Greinke deserved it and he got it. Congrats.

mccoydp
11-17-2009, 05:54 PM
A well-deserved win for an outstanding pitcher. Congrats!

TheVulture
11-17-2009, 08:00 PM
:scratch:I'd like to know who the writer was that left Greinke off his ballot. This was truly a remarkable performance this year.

No one left him off the ballot. There were 28 votes - he got 25 first and 3 seconds.

TheVulture
11-17-2009, 08:05 PM
I'm also happy to see that Andrew Bailey didn't get any votes despite having a lower ERA, striking out more hitters per inning and allowing a lower batting average against him.

Perhaps having retired 439 less batters than Greinke had something to do with that.

sullythered
11-17-2009, 08:54 PM
Looking at the numbers, this was really a no-brainer. He basically had a "Pedro in his prime" kind of year.

asindc
11-17-2009, 09:10 PM
It isn't as if there were any 20-game winners, though

So what if there had been? Why would that have made a difference?

soxinem1
11-17-2009, 09:16 PM
I wish we had traded for him. I always liked him, even though he was mediocre the past couple of seasons.

Of all the trades KW made with KC, even when Greinke was rushed early to the big leagues and hit hard, this was one I wish would have went through.

If he had played on a decent team, 20-22 wins would have happened. His pitching logs throughout the year were just astounding. From day one.

VMSNS
11-17-2009, 10:02 PM
My congrats go out to Zack. :cheers:

The dude absolutely wrecked people out there this season. He deserves it.

TDog
11-18-2009, 12:03 AM
So what if there had been? Why would that have made a difference?

Yes. It would have. It wouldn't have changed who you believed should have won the award, but it would have changed the way the writers had voted.

asindc
11-18-2009, 08:08 AM
Yes. It would have. It wouldn't have changed who you believed should have won the award, but it would have changed the way the writers had voted.

Maybe, but in furtherance of my (legitimate) doubts about them getting it right.

TDog
11-18-2009, 01:11 PM
Maybe, but in furtherance of my (legitimate) doubts about them getting it right.

Wins for starting pitchers are more important than a lot of the stats people would have you believe. Usually starters who pitch great but don't get a lot of wins don't pitch deep enough into games to get those wins. This has been the case with John Danks (and many other pitchers of this era who don't learn to pitch complete games, but Danks may be the best example). That wasn't the case with Greinke, however, and if Verlander or Halliday or both had been 20 game winners, I doubt enough voters would have given Greinke the credit he deserved.

Ferguson Jenkins in 1968 lost six 1-0 games (only one to Cy Young Award winner Bob Gibson). Jenkins was still a 20-game winner that year, but he knew how to pitch.

asindc
11-18-2009, 01:48 PM
I'm not discounting wins in general, just in this context. Greinke had the kind of season that if he had pitched for the Yanks, he probably would have had about 6-9 more wins, while Sabathia probably would have had 5-7 fewer wins if he pitched for KC. I'm glad that the writers realized that, even if they might not have analyzed it the same way.

TDog
11-18-2009, 02:04 PM
I'm not discounting wins in general, just in this context. Greinke had the kind of season that if he had pitched for the Yanks, he probably would have had about 6-9 more wins, while Sabathia probably would have had 5-7 fewer wins if he pitched for KC. I'm glad that the writers realized that, even if they might not have analyzed it the same way.

Greinke did have an incredible season, and it helped that he wasn't pitching in obscurity, as he could have been playing for the Royals. He was a great story from the spring and through the summer. Greinke got a lot of media attention early in the season because of how incredibly well he was pitching, and the attention didn't let up much. The voters didn't have to do much thinking or do silly statistical analysis to decide who to vote for. They were following the top contenders fro the award since well before the All-Star break.

Craig Grebeck
11-18-2009, 02:09 PM
Congratulations, Zack. Score one for SABR-inclined people, as he talked in interviews about advanced pitching/defensive metrics.

Craig Grebeck
11-18-2009, 03:09 PM
Wins for starting pitchers are more important than a lot of the stats people would have you believe. Usually starters who pitch great but don't get a lot of wins don't pitch deep enough into games to get those wins. This has been the case with John Danks (and many other pitchers of this era who don't learn to pitch complete games, but Danks may be the best example). That wasn't the case with Greinke, however, and if Verlander or Halliday or both had been 20 game winners, I doubt enough voters would have given Greinke the credit he deserved.

Ferguson Jenkins in 1968 lost six 1-0 games (only one to Cy Young Award winner Bob Gibson). Jenkins was still a 20-game winner that year, but he knew how to pitch.
The problem with this theory is that there are so many better ways to explore a pitcher's stamina and ability to pitch deep into games. Wins are the tiny, tiny tip of an iceberg. Sometimes they can indicate a pitcher struggles to go deep, but they are just as often an indicator of a lousy offense.

PalehosePlanet
11-18-2009, 04:00 PM
The problem with this theory is that there are so many better ways to explore a pitcher's stamina and ability to pitch deep into games. Wins are the tiny, tiny tip of an iceberg. Sometimes they can indicate a pitcher struggles to go deep, but they are just as often an indicator of a lousy offense.

And/or a terrible bullpen.

Congrats Zack, it was well deserved.

TDog
11-18-2009, 09:15 PM
The problem with this theory is that there are so many better ways to explore a pitcher's stamina and ability to pitch deep into games. Wins are the tiny, tiny tip of an iceberg. Sometimes they can indicate a pitcher struggles to go deep, but they are just as often an indicator of a lousy offense.

More often they are an indicator of both. John Danks may have been a victim of lousy offense during his career, but if he got past the seventh inning more often, he would have a bunch more wins.

A great pitcher doesn't need a bullpen.

Oddly enough, pitchers who year in and year out get a lot of wins are pitchers who consistently pitch well enough to win, whether they have much offensive support or not. A win is a fairly meaningless statistic for a relief pitcher (does anyone remember that Damaso Marte won Game 3 of the 2005 World Series?) but it is a hugely important stat for a starter (who could forget the winning pitcher of Game 4?). It doesn't necessarily tell you how well he will pitch, but neither does any other statistic.

asindc
11-19-2009, 08:16 AM
More often they are an indicator of both. John Danks may have been a victim of lousy offense during his career, but if he got past the seventh inning more often, he would have a bunch more wins.

A great pitcher doesn't need a bullpen.

Oddly enough, pitchers who year in and year out get a lot of wins are pitchers who consistently pitch well enough to win, whether they have much offensive support or not. A win is a fairly meaningless statistic for a relief pitcher (does anyone remember that Damaso Marte won Game 3 of the 2005 World Series?) but it is a hugely important stat for a starter (who could forget the winning pitcher of Game 4?). It doesn't necessarily tell you how well he will pitch, but neither does any other statistic.

Oh, I think ERA, WHIP, and BA against are rather consistent indicators of how well someone has pitched.