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View Full Version : Doc Halladay to the Sox??


Rockabilly
11-09-2009, 07:17 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2009-11-09/halladay-gonzalez-centers-attention-gm-meetings

I would be so damn happy if we got Doc..

Buehrle
Doc
Peavy
Danks
Floyd

Craig Grebeck
11-09-2009, 07:21 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2009-11-09/halladay-gonzalez-centers-attention-gm-meetings

I would be so damn happy if we got Doc..

Buehrle
Doc
Peavy
Danks
Floyd
Do you even think that's a remote possibility? Do you just accept everything that a writer/radio personality says without vetting it using, say, logic? This is preposterous, Rock. Come on.

Rockabilly
11-09-2009, 07:24 PM
Do you even think that's a remote possibility? Do you just accept everything that a writer/radio personality says without vetting it using, say, logic? This is preposterous, Rock. Come on.


Do I think Doc will be on the Sox next year? Not one bit but its fun to think about.

Who would have thought the Sox would have gotten Peavy last year.

Brian26
11-09-2009, 07:28 PM
Do you even think that's a remote possibility? Do you just accept everything that a writer/radio personality says without vetting it using, say, logic? This is preposterous, Rock. Come on.

Ease up. Rock didn't write the article himself, and there are less reputable sources out there than the Sporting News.

With that said, I agree with you that Halladay to the Sox is not going to happen.

Frater Perdurabo
11-09-2009, 07:29 PM
Of course it's not likely, but of course it would be amazing to get him.

I would think that any deal for Halladay would have to include Danks or Floyd.

SoxGirl4Life
11-09-2009, 07:34 PM
Do I think Doc will be on the Sox next year? Not one bit but its fun to think about.

Who would have thought the Sox would have gotten Peavy last year.

Blasphemy! There is no room for fun here! :wink:

JermaineDye05
11-09-2009, 07:40 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2009-11-09/halladay-gonzalez-centers-attention-gm-meetings

I would be so damn happy if we got Doc..

Buehrle
Doc
Peavy
Danks
Floyd

My main beef with this post is that, despite having Hallady and Peavy, Buehrle is still slated as the #1.

Zisk77
11-09-2009, 07:44 PM
I bet paulie would wave NTC for San Diego. Konerko, 3 really good prospects for Gonzalez. Maybe Flowers, Retherford, Jordan Danks. Not going to happen either but would make more sense for us than Halladay.

tm1119
11-09-2009, 08:23 PM
I bet paulie would wave NTC for San Diego. Konerko, 3 really good prospects for Gonzalez. Maybe Flowers, Retherford, Jordan Danks. Not going to happen either but would make more sense for us than Halladay.

Except that PK is old and makes a lot of money. Pretty much the exact opposite of what San Diego is looking for.
Aside from trading Beckham we dont have the resources, and we certainly dont have the money to get either player.

doublem23
11-09-2009, 08:33 PM
Do you even think that's a remote possibility? Do you just accept everything that a writer/radio personality says without vetting it using, say, logic? This is preposterous, Rock. Come on.

That's what this forum is for. At least there's a link to a "rumor."

That being said, if we landed Roy Halladay, I would need a new pair of pants.

infohawk
11-09-2009, 09:26 PM
Halladay I doubt. I wouldn't mind Gonzalez, though. Young, productive all-star first-baseman. Hmmmm.

Pure speculation - what if the Sox traded for Gonzalez and then dealt Paulie for prospects. Perhaps even a three team deal where the Sox get Gonzalez, a third team gets Paulie, and San Diego gets a couple of prospects each from the Sox and the third team? KW seems to like to acquire established players in their mid-to-late 20s. Didn't the article say that Gonzalez is owed $10.5 total million over two years? Isn't Paulie making about $12 million next year? If so, two years of Gonzalez is cheaper than one year of Paulie. A team acquiring Paulie may need a little money as part of the deal, though.

I very rarely if ever foray into these kind of speculations, so be merciful! I'm just having some fun! I'm not a GM, nor do I play one on tv.

DumpJerry
11-09-2009, 09:28 PM
The article also listed about 1/3 of the MLB teams as being interested.


Strong reporting there, SN.

Tragg
11-09-2009, 09:40 PM
If we don't improve the defense, whatever fine pitching we have will be seriously debased.
We need a RF.

Zisk77
11-09-2009, 09:47 PM
Except that PK is old and makes a lot of money. Pretty much the exact opposite of what San Diego is looking for.
Aside from trading Beckham we dont have the resources, and we certainly dont have the money to get either player.

yes but Paulie is in the last year of the contract and I'd assume the sox would pick up some of the $. regardless i don't think it would happen, just saying it would make more since for us than Halladay would.

SoxNation05
11-09-2009, 10:11 PM
We're obviously speculated to be involved because of our involvement last July, before we aquired Peavy.

TDog
11-09-2009, 11:09 PM
My main beef with this post is that, despite having Hallady and Peavy, Buehrle is still slated as the #1.

It's a petty beef. With such starters, the order they are listed is irrelevant, at least for the regular season. The order for any postseason rotation would be determined by who is hot and who is slumping.

DrCrawdad
11-09-2009, 11:11 PM
The article also listed about 1/3 of the MLB teams as being interested.


Strong reporting there, SN.

That's what I was thinking too. Quite the revelation in that article.

doublem23
11-10-2009, 05:48 AM
If we don't improve the defense, whatever fine pitching we have will be seriously debased.
We need a RF.

Yeah, 2 potential Cy Young Award winners, one of the steadiest, most reliable guys in the last, what? 30 years?, and two young guys both with still a lot of potential, one of whom still might become a prominent Cy Young quality guy.

:rolleyes:

With that kind of rotation we can just bring up little Danks to play CF and hit .150 this year and we'll still win 150 games.

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2009, 06:23 AM
Yeah, 2 potential Cy Young Award winners, one of the steadiest, most reliable guys in the last, what? 30 years?, and two young guys both with still a lot of potential, one of whom still might become a prominent Cy Young quality guy.

:rolleyes:

With that kind of rotation we can just bring up little Danks to play CF and hit .150 this year and we'll still win 150 games.
C'mon dubs. Don't be ridiculous. Buehrle finished 5th in the Cy Young voting one time (2005 -- which coincided with the Sox having their best SS and 3B defense in his career), which is demonstrative enough of the impact defense can have on a pitch to contact guy like Mark.

And no one is winning a Cy Young from the Sox unless they improve the defense. Not Halladay, not Peavy, not anyone.

Rockabilly
11-10-2009, 06:23 AM
Lets say the Sox did acquire Doc and Floyd was traded as part of the package.

Would Buehrle, Doc, Peavy and Danks beat out Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine and Avery back in the day?

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2009, 06:26 AM
Lets say the Sox did acquire Doc and Floyd was traded as part of the package.

Would Buehrle, Doc, Peavy and Danks beat out Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine and Avery back in the day?
Sweet lord no. No. No, no, no. A thousand times no.

DrCrawdad
11-10-2009, 07:02 AM
Lets say the Sox did acquire Doc and Floyd was traded as part of the package.

Would Buehrle, Doc, Peavy and Danks beat out Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine and Avery back in the day?

Would Buehrle, Doc, Peavy and Danks get the Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine strike zone?

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2009, 07:11 AM
Would Buehrle, Doc, Peavy and Danks get the Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine strike zone?
They still wouldn't touch Atlanta. I don't think people realize how freaking good Greg Maddux was.

Nellie_Fox
11-10-2009, 10:22 AM
They still wouldn't touch Atlanta. I don't think people realize how freaking good Greg Maddux was.He did have a 25" wide plate every time he pitched. I would have liked to see how good he would have been with the standard 17" plate.

PorkChopExpress
11-10-2009, 10:39 AM
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2009-11-09/halladay-gonzalez-centers-attention-gm-meetings

I would be so damn happy if we got Doc..

Buehrle
Doc
Peavy
Danks
Floyd

The issue I have with this is that if we did trade for Doc, I would have to believe either Danks or Floyd would be going to Toronto along with Ramirez. They want young pitching and a SS, and we're not giving them Beckham. So, your rotation will likely not include one of those two pitchers, and your infield will be without Ramirez. I'd still be game, though.

NLaloosh
11-10-2009, 10:44 AM
It seems realistic to me:

Freddy Garcia, Dan Hudson, Carlos Torres and Bobby Jenks for Halladay.

Paul Konerko, Dayan Viciedo, Brent Morel and Jayson Nix for Adrian Gonzalez.

See how easy that was?

spawn
11-10-2009, 10:45 AM
It seems realistic to me:

Freddy Garcia, Dan Hudson, Carlos Torres and Bobby Jenks for Halladay.

Paul Konerko, Dayan Viciedo, Brent Morel and Jayson Nix for Adrian Gonzalez.

See how easy that was?
Maybe...if you're playing XBox or Playstation.

guillensdisciple
11-10-2009, 10:50 AM
Maybe...if you're playing XBox or Playstation.


Wait, this isn't Xbox?

doublem23
11-10-2009, 10:55 AM
It seems realistic to me:

Freddy Garcia, Dan Hudson, Carlos Torres and Bobby Jenks for Halladay.

Paul Konerko, Dayan Viciedo, Brent Morel and Jayson Nix for Adrian Gonzalez.

See how easy that was?

While you're at it, do you think you can have some guy trade me a million dollars for the 40 bucks I have in my wallet?

DirtySox
11-10-2009, 10:57 AM
It seems realistic to me:

Freddy Garcia, Dan Hudson, Carlos Torres and Bobby Jenks for Halladay.

Paul Konerko, Dayan Viciedo, Brent Morel and Jayson Nix for Adrian Gonzalez.

See how easy that was?

The Sox would be lucky to have the prospects to attain even one of the two. Hudson and Flowers are pretty much the only highly desirable pieces we have.

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2009, 11:40 AM
The Sox would be lucky to have the prospects to attain even one of the two. Hudson and Flowers are pretty much the only highly desirable pieces we have.
Well we've got Mitchell too, but he's not movable and he's so far away that his value is impossible to gauge.

thomas35forever
11-10-2009, 12:12 PM
There's a rumor Halladay could go to the Cubs too. The trade would involve Bradley, Andrew Cashner, Ryan Flaherty, Soto, and another minor league pitcher, according to a text I got.

Boondock Saint
11-10-2009, 12:21 PM
There's a rumor Halladay could go to the Cubs too. The trade would involve Bradley, Andrew Cashner, Ryan Flaherty, Soto, and another minor league pitcher, according to a text I got.

That seems like a **** return for one of the top five pitchers in the game.

DirtySox
11-10-2009, 12:24 PM
That seems like a **** return for one of the top five pitchers in the game.

It is. One would assume Vitters and/or Castro would be involved in a deal for Doc.

Dick Allen
11-10-2009, 12:50 PM
There's a rumor that EVERYBODY'S going to the Cubs. Isn't there always?

NLaloosh
11-10-2009, 01:08 PM
While you're at it, do you think you can have some guy trade me a million dollars for the 40 bucks I have in my wallet?


Sure. I'm working on it.

Tragg
11-10-2009, 01:09 PM
Yeah, 2 potential Cy Young Award winners, one of the steadiest, most reliable guys in the last, what? 30 years?, and two young guys both with still a lot of potential, one of whom still might become a prominent Cy Young quality guy.

:rolleyes:

With that kind of rotation we can just bring up little Danks to play CF and hit .150 this year and we'll still win 150 games.
You're right - the blue jays did nothing but win with Halladay and their stellar supporting cast. (not to mention the Padres with Peavy!!). Halladay certainly doesn't need anyone who can catch behind him....Pitching is independent of defense. You and Ozzie are right, defense doesn't matter - brilliant point.

doublem23
11-10-2009, 01:52 PM
You're right - the blue jays did nothing but win with Halladay and their stellar supporting cast. (not to mention the Padres with Peavy!!). Halladay certainly doesn't need anyone who can catch behind him....Pitching is independent of defense. You and Ozzie are right, defense doesn't matter - brilliant point.

:whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

Go cry over the 2nd least important defensive position on the field, I'll still take the perennial Cy Young candidate.

BTW, I specifically mentioned Jordan Danks, who would be all D and no bat. If you could go ahead and actually read what I write before you snidely respond, I would appreciate it.

Right field. :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

A. Cavatica
11-10-2009, 02:42 PM
It seems realistic to me:

Freddy Garcia, Dan Hudson, Carlos Torres and Bobby Jenks for Halladay.

Paul Konerko, Dayan Viciedo, Brent Morel and Jayson Nix for Adrian Gonzalez.

See how easy that was?

The Gonzalez proposal is a joke. The Halladay proposal is more reasonable, but pieces like Garcia and Torres are easy to find on the scrap heap so you're really just suggesting Hudson and Jenks for Halladay. I think Toronto would insist on Ramirez, too.

Rohan
11-10-2009, 04:17 PM
I'd imagine we're there to block the tigers... And that's about it.

Boondock Saint
11-10-2009, 04:22 PM
I'd imagine we're there to block the tigers... And that's about it.

If the Tigers fail to address their bullpen for yet another season, Cy Young himself won't be able to get them a WS ring.

PalehosePlanet
11-10-2009, 04:56 PM
Sweet lord no. No. No, no, no. A thousand times no.

A bit of an over reaction, don't you think?

Buehrle has 135 wins through age 31 while Glavine had 139; their ERA's after taking the NL/AL exchange rate into account are similar; these two are pretty much a wash.

Maddux at the same stage had better numbers than Peavy. An obvious edge to Maddux.

Halladay is better than Smoltz. Period.

Danks and Avery are basically a wash (although Danks will probably have a much better career.)

I guess we won't know until everyone's careers are done but it's certainly not an outrageous comparison.

DrCrawdad
11-10-2009, 06:26 PM
A bit of an over reaction, don't you think?

Buehrle has 135 wins through age 31 while Glavine had 139; their ERA's after taking the NL/AL exchange rate into account are similar; these two are pretty much a wash.

Maddux at the same stage had better numbers than Peavy. An obvious edge to Maddux.

Halladay is better than Smoltz. Period.

Danks and Avery are basically a wash (although Danks will probably have a much better career.)

I guess we won't know until everyone's careers are done but it's certainly not an outrageous comparison.

Thank you!

VMSNS
11-10-2009, 09:32 PM
There's a rumor that EVERYBODY'S going to the Cubs. Isn't there always?

Didn't you hear?

The Cubs are working to get Ichiro, Pujols, and Lincecum. It's gonna happen, guys! :bliss:

NLaloosh
11-11-2009, 11:50 AM
The Gonzalez proposal is a joke. The Halladay proposal is more reasonable, but pieces like Garcia and Torres are easy to find on the scrap heap so you're really just suggesting Hudson and Jenks for Halladay. I think Toronto would insist on Ramirez, too.

I'm just messing around. I don't think there is any chance that the Sox will trade for either one of them - especially Halladay.

soxinem1
11-11-2009, 12:02 PM
Maybe...if you're playing XBox or Playstation.

Neither of those games would agree to those trades, especially if they are the upgraded versions that actually decline trades.

So even in Fantasyland those are a no-go.

tick53
11-13-2009, 12:53 PM
It would be nice but there are too many teams in the running. The Sox never win out in this case.

pythons007
11-18-2009, 01:24 PM
My main beef with this post is that, despite having Hallady and Peavy, Buehrle is still slated as the #1.

I thought the same thing! I love Buehrle to death, but with those two he'd quickly be moved down to our #3.

RedHeadPaleHoser
11-18-2009, 01:43 PM
I thought the same thing! I love Buehrle to death, but with those two he'd quickly be moved down to our #3.

In theory, if Halladay was on this staff with MB and JP, I think Mark would gladly take the #3 role.

pythons007
11-18-2009, 01:55 PM
They still wouldn't touch Atlanta. I don't think people realize how freaking good Greg Maddux was.

He did have a 25" wide plate every time he pitched. I would have liked to see how good he would have been with the standard 17" plate.

Nothing against Maddux, he pitched to wear his catcher put the glove.....even if that glove was in the other batters box. The dude continuously had 3 inches on either side of the plate. It was ridiculous! I'm sure if you go to youtube and type in Gregg Maddux, you'll see him get calls only he would get. I bet with my rag arm and a 20+" plate, I could get guys out too.

If we our rotation was Halladay, Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, and Floyd and they pitched in the same era that this rotation would be better. For one both Halladay and Peavy can strike guys out (with Danks and Floyd getting up there).

I think Smoltz was the only strikeout guy the Braves had in their rotation.

Pitching is automatically better when a pitcher can strike guys out. Meaning the ball is in play that many less times. Obviously its not the only thing but it definately helps a pitcher out.

Now the Braves pitching staff was getting a sick call from the majority of umpires. I'm not saying that that was the only reason why the Atlanta pitching staff was so dominate either.

Either way this is a non existant arguement because this rotation isn't going to come to fruitation!

gr8mexico
11-18-2009, 02:16 PM
What about a 3 team deal?
The Sox send Mark Buehrle to the Cardinals
The BlueJays get prospects from the Cardinals and Sox &
The Sox get Roy Halladay
The Sox would easily have the best rotation in baseball
1.Roy Halladay
2.Jake Peavy
3.John Danks
4.Gavin Floyd
5.Freddy Garcia

sox1970
11-18-2009, 03:00 PM
What about a 3 team deal?
The Sox send Mark Buehrle to the Cardinals
The BlueJays get prospects from the Cardinals and Sox &
The Sox get Roy Halladay
The Sox would easily have the best rotation in baseball
1.Roy Halladay
2.Jake Peavy
3.John Danks
4.Gavin Floyd
5.Freddy Garcia


Sounds like a Sox blog trade idea.

KMcMahon817
11-18-2009, 03:42 PM
What about a 3 team deal?
The Sox send Mark Buehrle to the Cardinals
The BlueJays get prospects from the Cardinals and Sox &
The Sox get Roy Halladay
The Sox would easily have the best rotation in baseball
1.Roy Halladay
2.Jake Peavy
3.John Danks
4.Gavin Floyd
5.Freddy Garcia


Boooo! As good as Halladay is, I'd rather have Mark. But, that's not going to happen anyway.

guillensdisciple
11-18-2009, 04:02 PM
Boooo! As good as Halladay is, I'd rather have Mark. But, that's not going to happen anyway.


I don't think you understand, it's Halladay. He is >>> than Mark. I love Mark, but Halladay offers the longevity that Mark does while also having Cy Young capability year after year. He would be a definite upgrade.

soxinem1
11-18-2009, 04:18 PM
I don't think you understand, it's Halladay. He is >>> than Mark. I love Mark, but Halladay offers the longevity that Mark does while also having Cy Young capability year after year. He would be a definite upgrade.

With Halladay being a power pitcher who has worked deep into games almost his entire career, there are another 90K miles on his arm than Buehrle has on his.

Also, his contract status would not be favorable to us. Roy will get an extension or new contract in the line of Peavy and Santana.

And let's say this fantasy trade goes through. What does this do for the other glaring holes?

I would rather KW stick to our needs for his shopping list. Lead-off, LF, DH, and bullpen.

What good does a bunch of 2-1, 2-0, 3-1, 4-2 losses do for us if we do this?

Now if TOR wants to put him on waivers and we claim him, that is another thing.......... But that will NOT happen!

DumpJerry
11-18-2009, 05:11 PM
Nothing against Maddux, he pitched to wear his catcher put the glove.....even if that glove was in the other batters box. The dude continuously had 3 inches on either side of the plate. It was ridiculous! I'm sure if you go to youtube and type in Gregg Maddux, you'll see him get calls only he would get. I bet with my rag arm and a 20+" plate, I could get guys out too.

If we our rotation was Halladay, Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, and Floyd and they pitched in the same era that this rotation would be better. For one both Halladay and Peavy can strike guys out (with Danks and Floyd getting up there).

I think Smoltz was the only strikeout guy the Braves had in their rotation.

Pitching is automatically better when a pitcher can strike guys out. Meaning the ball is in play that many less times. Obviously its not the only thing but it definately helps a pitcher out.

Now the Braves pitching staff was getting a sick call from the majority of umpires. I'm not saying that that was the only reason why the Atlanta pitching staff was so dominate either.

Either way this is a non existant arguement because this rotation isn't going to come to fruitation!
Strikeout pitchers have higher pitch counts.

Domeshot17
11-18-2009, 05:21 PM
Maddux Smoltz Glavine is a trio that mostly likely will never be touched again. Buehrle is a fine pitcher, but him in a trio won't touch that 3. Those 3 are all hall of famers, My gut says Burls won't really come close to sniffing much Hall of Fame talk.

oeo
11-18-2009, 06:16 PM
Maddux Smoltz Glavine is a trio that mostly likely will never be touched again. Buehrle is a fine pitcher, but him in a trio won't touch that 3. Those 3 are all hall of famers, My gut says Burls won't really come close to sniffing much Hall of Fame talk.

It depends on how long he pitches. If he pitches until he's 40+, he will have an impressive resume.

soltrain21
11-18-2009, 06:29 PM
Boooo! As good as Halladay is, I'd rather have Mark. But, that's not going to happen anyway.

You can't be serious.

doublem23
11-18-2009, 06:51 PM
You can't be serious.

If you're talking Halladay and Buehrle in their primes then the winner is clearly Roy Halladay, but if you're talking about going into 2010, I don't think it's completely clear-cut (I would still probably take Halladay), but it's not a complete slam-dunk. Halladay is going to be 33 next year, the twilight years of his prime and while he has a relatively clean health record, it cannot be overstated that Mark Buehrle has never been on the D.L. in his career. That is absolutely absurd this day in age for any starter, let alone someone above average like Buehrle, who is 3 years younger and several million dollars cheaper.

Dibbs
11-18-2009, 10:40 PM
I love Mark, but I can definitively say Halladay is better.

VMSNS
11-19-2009, 12:20 AM
The MLB-At-Bat app on my iPhone had a story today reporting that Halladay could very well go to the Yankees.

Man...that would suck if NY got him. They would probably then surpass us as having the best starting rotation in baseball (Doc, CC, Burnett, possibly Pettitte).

PennStater98r
11-19-2009, 12:39 PM
The MLB-At-Bat app on my iPhone had a story today reporting that Halladay could very well go to the Yankees.

Man...that would suck if NY got him. They would probably then surpass us as having the best starting rotation in baseball (Doc, CC, Burnett, possibly Pettitte).

I don't see Toronto trading Doc to someone in their division.

pythons007
11-19-2009, 12:44 PM
I don't see Toronto trading Doc to someone in their division.

Let alone, the Yankees or Red Sox. I don't care who they get in return. Even if they resurrect Babe Ruth or Ted Williams! Well maybe they would, but until genetic research can do this...Doc will not be traded within the division.

tm1119
11-19-2009, 01:30 PM
Let alone, the Yankees or Red Sox. I don't care who they get in return. Even if they resurrect Babe Ruth or Ted Williams! Well maybe they would, but until genetic research can do this...Doc will not be traded within the division.

I really think they would, or at least I would if I was the GM. If you think about it Halladay is a FA after this year anyway, and what 2 teams are always going to have the best shot at signing a big name FA?
Not to mention that the Blue Jays realistically dont have a shot to compete with the AL east for at least a few more years anyway. I think if they have a chance to get a package of something like Hughes, Jesus Montero, and Zach McAllister they will strongly consider it.

jabrch
11-19-2009, 03:29 PM
They SHOULD trade him to whomever gives them the greatest return. If it is Bos/NY, fine. If those teams have that available cash, they will spend it on someone. If not Halladay, then they will get some other star somewhere...

If you trade him, you make sure you get the best those farms have to offer.

KMcMahon817
11-19-2009, 04:57 PM
I don't think you understand, it's Halladay. He is >>> than Mark. I love Mark, but Halladay offers the longevity that Mark does while also having Cy Young capability year after year. He would be a definite upgrade.

No, I wasn't being serious. Halladay is much better, I am just not really a fan and well, I love Mark. haha