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Lip Man 1
11-05-2009, 02:49 PM
Royals deal:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1867393,teahen-white-sox-royals-trade-05.article

Lip

russ99
11-05-2009, 02:56 PM
With Teahen and Kotsay in the mix now, would that mean Pods isn't coming back?

Regardless, we really needed another outfielder, so now we have one. Getz was a nice player and Fields was a throw-in, so we're even on this one, and if Teahan turns into a typical Sox reclamation project, like Dye, it could turn out very well.

This sure makes it seem Kenny's going to do some heavy lifting this offseason, and I welcome it.

Noneck
11-05-2009, 03:02 PM
One thing not mentioned was that Getz was always considered a possible leadoff man. When the Sox don't try to get Figgins and Pods goes to the highest bidder, I have no idea what their back up plan will be.

NLaloosh
11-05-2009, 03:20 PM
Orlando Hudson.

Lip Man 1
11-05-2009, 04:56 PM
Another trade breakdown..Rogers seems to like the deal:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-rogers-white-sox-teahen,0,4267298.column

Lip

oeo
11-05-2009, 04:58 PM
One thing not mentioned was that Getz was always considered a possible leadoff man. When the Sox don't try to get Figgins and Pods goes to the highest bidder, I have no idea what their back up plan will be.

There's going to be a bidding war for Scott Podsednik?

spawn
11-05-2009, 04:58 PM
Another trade breakdown..Rogers seems to like the deal:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-rogers-white-sox-teahen,0,4267298.column

Lip
This puported deal positions the Sox to trade Konerko? Really? Whatever Rogers is smoking, I want some.

Bucky F. Dent
11-05-2009, 06:23 PM
Another trade breakdown..Rogers seems to like the deal:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-rogers-white-sox-teahen,0,4267298.column

Lip


Well the fact that Rogers likes it scares the hell out of me.

guillensdisciple
11-05-2009, 07:17 PM
Isn't Teahen one of those people that has a huge ceiling? Also, is he not one of those that Hawk can't get over just like Gomez?

PaleHoser
11-05-2009, 07:24 PM
Rob Neyer's blog (http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/1241/on-a-rumored-trade) has his take on this rumored deal, and includes a link from the Kansas City Star.

munchman33
11-05-2009, 07:24 PM
One thing not mentioned was that Getz was always considered a possible leadoff man.

Only by those who have absolutely zero understanding of the role.

Noneck
11-05-2009, 08:10 PM
There's going to be a bidding war for Scott Podsednik?

Other teams than just the Sox will request his services.

Noneck
11-05-2009, 08:12 PM
Only by those who have absolutely zero understanding of the role.

I never said that he would have been a good leadoff guy but thinking of their current roster, I cant think of many other choices.

cws05champ
11-05-2009, 08:20 PM
Well the fact that Rogers likes it scares the hell out of me.
How could he like it..Fields and Getz and we only get back Teahen. That's -1.

munchman33
11-05-2009, 08:21 PM
I never said that he would have been a good leadoff guy but thinking of their current roster, I cant think of many other choices.

He's about as good a choice for the role as anyone else on the roster, yes. By that logic then I'll agree.

You're including the pitchers, right?

Craig Grebeck
11-05-2009, 08:26 PM
He's about as good a choice for the role as anyone else on the roster, yes. By that logic then I'll agree.

You're including the pitchers, right?
Holy hyperbole batman. Just make a ****ing argument without making it black and white.

Daver
11-05-2009, 08:28 PM
He's about as good a choice for the role as anyone else on the roster, yes. By that logic then I'll agree.

You're including the pitchers, right?

I'm not so sure I would trust you to know the qualities needed in a leadoff hitter either.

TheOldRoman
11-05-2009, 08:29 PM
How could he like it..Fields and Getz and we only get back Teahen. That's -1.:thumbsup:

munchman33
11-05-2009, 08:33 PM
Holy hyperbole batman. Just make a ****ing argument without making it black and white.

Chris Getz has no business in any discussion involving the leadoff position. That anyone would even mention it bothers me. The hyperbole makes me feel better.

munchman33
11-05-2009, 08:35 PM
I'm not so sure I would trust you to know the qualities needed in a leadoff hitter either.

I know enough to understand it doesn't involve someone who can't hit.

Rdy2PlayBall
11-05-2009, 08:35 PM
Chris Getz has no business in any discussion involving the leadoff position. That anyone would even mention it bothers me. The hyperbole makes me feel better.If we take any consideration of the stats predicted in that one thread, he's a better leadoff man then Pods. :tongue:

munchman33
11-05-2009, 08:36 PM
If we take any consideration of the stats predicted in that one thread, he's a better leadoff man then Pods. :tongue:

Hahaha....oh jeez.

Britt Burns
11-05-2009, 08:44 PM
I like it if only for the fact that not only do we get rid of Josh Fields, but send him to another team in the division. I think it was Branch Rickey who called this 'addition by subtraction.'

munchman33
11-05-2009, 08:56 PM
I like it if only for the fact that not only do we get rid of Josh Fields, but send him to another team in the division. I think it was Branch Rickey who called this 'addition by subtraction.'

Why couldn't we trade him to the Twins?

chisox77
11-05-2009, 09:00 PM
I like it if only for the fact that not only do we get rid of Josh Fields, but send him to another team in the division. I think it was Branch Rickey who called this 'addition by subtraction.'


I understand this logic, but there is a chance that Fields can flourish a little in KC. It may be a good place for him to play and produce.

munchman33
11-05-2009, 09:02 PM
I understand this logic, but there is a chance that Fields can flourish a little in KC. It may be a good place for him to play and produce.

What position? 1B and 3B are locked up.

doublem23
11-05-2009, 09:06 PM
What position? 1B and 3B are locked up.

He'll be a superstar in Omaha, those PCL pitchers don't know how to pitch him.

DirtySox
11-05-2009, 09:15 PM
How do we analyze a trade that hasn't been confirmed/completed yet?

Hitmen77
11-05-2009, 11:08 PM
How do we analyze a trade that hasn't been confirmed/completed yet?

I have my doubts that this trade is going to happen. The media erred by running with this rumor as if the trade was official.

parlaycard
11-06-2009, 06:57 AM
How do we analyze a trade that hasn't been confirmed/completed yet?

you missed all the posts?

Check out all the proposed lineups that include Figgins on this board as well.

Sox fans analyze everything

I think I recall a thread analyzing "what if" the Sox obtained Babe Ruth instead of the Yankees.

It was an amazing discussion. :cool:

khan
11-06-2009, 10:00 AM
Another trade breakdown..Rogers seems to like the deal:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-rogers-white-sox-teahen,0,4267298.column

Lip
Rogers is as dumb as a monkey.

He calls Teahen, "a good hitter," but then fails to cite WHY he thinks Teahen is "a good hitter." For the record, Teahen's career batting average is a measly .269. Teahen's OBP is a weak .331. His slugging was all of .408 last year. NONE of these numbers indicate that Teahen is "a good hitter."

At the same time, he downplays Getz in his rookie year by posting Getz's batting average and OBP: .261 and .324. But then, Rogers, the imbecile that he is, posts a "slugging average of .408," when referencing Getz.

But guess what: That's actually Teahen's weak-ass slugging for last year.

Rogers is so dumb that his stories insult the dumb. He can't even get the numbers correct, and he poorly-sources his opinions. I'm sorry for newspaper people that are struggling nowadays. But morons like Rogers are but one reason why the newspaper industry is suffering.

NLaloosh
11-06-2009, 10:44 AM
How do we analyze a trade that hasn't been confirmed/completed yet?

Exactly. Especially now that I'm hearing the Sox are getting the Royals to throw in Greinke and the Sox have included Carlos Torres.

The deal makes a lot more sense now.

russ99
11-06-2009, 07:24 PM
Current (supposed) Sox payroll numbers with today's developments: from Cot's

Committed dollars = $73.4M for 12 players (including Viciedo), adding in Dye's buyout and MacDougal's leftover for 2010 and removing the $1M from KC in the Teahen deal.

Projected 25 man roster (Armstrong or Flowers at #2 C, De Aza replaces Pods) without players going to Arbitration = $78.3M total

Total payroll for 2010 with expected Arb raises (Jenks 7M, Quentin 5.5M, Danks 4M, Teahen 3.5M, Pena 1M): $97.3M

Total payroll as above without Jenks: $90.3M

Assuming we can expect a payroll around the $100M mark, Kenny may need to cut before he adds again...

Lip Man 1
11-06-2009, 07:56 PM
Just got an e-mail from a past source who said they have a "gut feeling" Kenny is going to try to move a big salaried guy.

Who fits that description?

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
11-06-2009, 07:59 PM
Just got an e-mail from a past source who said they have a "gut feeling" Kenny is going to try to move a big salaried guy.

Who fits that description?

Lip

:bandance:

:tongue:

Rdy2PlayBall
11-06-2009, 08:02 PM
I forgot how negative this place was. You WSI folks seem to be the only ones out there thinking this trade was a total bust for the Sox. Teahen is still young and looked at highly. He had a better season than Getz, and that's all we need to at least improve in that one position. KW obviously didn't plan on Getz being our leadoff guy long term, why keep him?

Brian26
11-06-2009, 08:05 PM
Just got an e-mail from a past source who said they have a "gut feeling" Kenny is going to try to move a big salaried guy.

Who fits that description?

Lip

Linebrink

:cool:

Frater Perdurabo
11-06-2009, 08:06 PM
I forgot how negative this place was. You WSI folks seem to be the only ones out there thinking this trade was a total bust for the Sox. Teahen is still young and looked at highly. He had a better season than Getz, and that's all we need to at least improve in that one position. KW obviously didn't plan on Getz being our leadoff guy long term, why keep him?

Good point. Fields had no place on this team. The deal was basically Getz for Teahen. I like Getz, but Teahen is a better player. Plus, now Grececk should be happy, since Beckham's bat will be at second base.

:tongue:

Daver
11-06-2009, 08:34 PM
I forgot how negative this place was. You WSI folks seem to be the only ones out there thinking this trade was a total bust for the Sox. Teahen is still young and looked at highly. He had a better season than Getz, and that's all we need to at least improve in that one position. KW obviously didn't plan on Getz being our leadoff guy long term, why keep him?

I don't think the trade was a bust, more like a wash, but the Sox got worse defensively because of it, baseball is not, and never will be, an offensive sport.

russ99
11-06-2009, 08:50 PM
Linebrink

:cool:

We can only hope, but I doubt anyone's going to take Linebrink unless we pay a sizable portion of the $5M he's due next year.
Besides, relievers are so up and down from year to year, maybe we should see if there's any chance he can help us next year first.

As for other player with larger salaries next year who could be traded are:

2010 FA's:
Konerko - $12M (full NTC)
Pierzynski - $6.25M

Arb:
Jenks - somewhere between $5.6M (2009 salary) and $8M after Arb.
Maybe Danks too, but I doubt it.

Also:
Buerhle - at $14M gets full 10/5 NTC in July 2010; but I can't see any way the Sox would trade him...

Frater Perdurabo
11-06-2009, 08:51 PM
I don't think the trade was a bust, more like a wash, but the Sox got worse defensively because of it, baseball is not, and never will be, an offensive sport.

So you think Teahen is a poor defensive 3B?

Frater Perdurabo
11-06-2009, 08:57 PM
Just got an e-mail from a past source who said they have a "gut feeling" Kenny is going to try to move a big salaried guy.

Who fits that description?

Lip

In all seriousness, the only big salaries remaining are Peavy, Buehrle and Paulie. I don't see KW moving either Buehrle or Peavy. This is going to shock many of you, but I think on balance it would be unwise to deal Paulie at this point, since he's the only remaining reliable middle-of-the-order hitter. (Quentin is great when healthy but needs to prove he can last a full season before I consider him "reliable.") However, KW needs to be open to any deal or series of deals that would make the Sox younger and better.

Daver
11-06-2009, 08:58 PM
So you think Teahen is a poor defensive 3B?

He's not better than Beckham, and based on what I have seen, Getz played 2nd better than Gordon will, therefore you have a defensive downgrade IMO. I also know nothing about baseball, so take it for what it is worth.

DirtySox
11-06-2009, 09:02 PM
Just got an e-mail from a past source who said they have a "gut feeling" Kenny is going to try to move a big salaried guy.

Who fits that description?

Lip

Does Jenks count?

You did use the word big.

munchman33
11-06-2009, 09:04 PM
He's not better than Beckham, and based on what I have seen, Getz played 2nd better than Gordon will, therefore you have a defensive downgrade IMO. I also know nothing about baseball, so take it for what it is worth.

You have a tremendously low expectation of Gordon then. There isn't an apt hyperbole I can use to estimate the value of Getz's defense that wouldn't get me lambasted by the FOCG, but I assure you it would involve those who either do not play baseball or do so in games with balls bigger than a grapefruit.

russ99
11-06-2009, 09:04 PM
In all seriousness, the only big salaries remaining are Peavy, Buehrle and Paulie. I don't see KW moving either Buehrle or Peavy. This is going to shock many of you, but I think on balance it would be unwise to deal Paulie at this point, since he's the only remaining reliable middle-of-the-order hitter. (Quentin is great when healthy but needs to prove he can last a full season before I consider him "reliable.") However, KW needs to be open to any deal or series of deals that would make the Sox younger and better.

I agree, it would be unwise to deal Paul at this point, since Kotsay is the only other option at the position. Maybe at next year's deadline if things don't go so well, but let's not think about that.

That's why I think Jenks will be the one to go. There's lots of closers on the FA market this year, both top-end and mid-tier and and all of them but 1 or two will pull in significantly less than what Bobby's due in his arb year raise.

I hope the Sox get something for him instead of non-tendering, though.

Daver
11-06-2009, 09:28 PM
You have a tremendously low expectation of Gordon then. There isn't an apt hyperbole I can use to estimate the value of Getz's defense that wouldn't get me lambasted by the FOCG, but I assure you it would involve those who either do not play baseball or do so in games with balls bigger than a grapefruit.

Watch the tape that I have from Gordon playing SS in college and compare it to what Getz played last season at 2nd, Gordon was moved to third for a reason.

Rdy2PlayBall
11-06-2009, 09:37 PM
Watch the tape that I have from Gordon playing SS in college and compare it to what Getz played last season at 2nd, Gordon was moved to third for a reason.Umm... College is the same as MLB why? Pull up some tape and see how well Beckham played 3B in college.

He is at a different level now, things change.

munchman33
11-06-2009, 09:38 PM
Watch the tape that I have from Gordon playing SS in college and compare it to what Getz played last season at 2nd, Gordon was moved to third for a reason.

Even if it's as bad as you're saying, it's hard to imagine he's worse than Getz. Getz was incredibly terrible, the perfect storm of poor range and no arm.

Daver
11-06-2009, 09:42 PM
Umm... College is the same as MLB why? Pull up some tape and see how well Beckham played 3B in college.

He is at a different level now, things change.

He didn't play third in college.

Talent and skill sets don't change by level, so I really don't have any idea what point you might be trying to make.

JNS
11-06-2009, 09:59 PM
I agree, it would be unwise to deal Paul at this point, since Kotsay is the only other option at the position. Maybe at next year's deadline if things don't go so well, but let's not think about that.

That's why I think Jenks will be the one to go. There's lots of closers on the FA market this year, both top-end and mid-tier and and all of them but 1 or two will pull in significantly less than what Bobby's due in his arb year raise.

I hope the Sox get something for him instead of non-tendering, though.

I love Paulie, but will his value ever be higher than now? Of course he will only allow trades to Arizona and LA. Still, the rumors are out there and not just from Lip.

Rdy2PlayBall
11-06-2009, 10:37 PM
He didn't play third in college.

Talent and skill sets don't change by level, so I really don't have any idea what point you might be trying to make.I'm pretty confident that College 3B Beckham would be < MLB 3B Beckham, but whatever. You also can't really compare a SS to a 2nd baseman, look at the big change that happened with Alexei moving to SS.

We both don't know what we are talking about, let KW and Ozzie handle the possitioning and talent scouting. :tongue:

Daver
11-06-2009, 10:43 PM
I'm pretty confident that College 3B Beckham would be < MLB 3B Beckham, but whatever. You also can't really compare a SS to a 2nd baseman, look at the big change that happened with Alexei moving to SS.

We both don't know what we are talking about, let KW and Ozzie handle the possitioning and talent scouting. :tongue:

I know nothing about baseball.

...
11-06-2009, 11:06 PM
I know nothing about baseball.

Well you should know enough to know the difference between aluminum and wooden bats and how it correlates to infield defense.

Daver
11-07-2009, 12:08 AM
Well you should know enough to know the difference between aluminum and wooden bats and how it correlates to infield defense.

Yeah, reaction speed and the ability to read a ball off the bat are dependent to the bat, what the hell was I thinking that instinct and natural talent had anything to do with it.

doublem23
11-07-2009, 01:50 AM
Well you should know enough to know the difference between aluminum and wooden bats and how it correlates to infield defense.

I would think that's at least partially nullified by playing against crappy walk-ons in a generally overlooked collegiate sport and playing against the very best players in the entire world.

That said, c'mon, Daver, there's really no way Bacon could be seriously worse than Getz at 2B. I prefer they kept him 3B after watching him play, franchise 3B are far and few between whereas 2B are everywhere.

thedudeabides
11-07-2009, 10:38 AM
Watch the tape that I have from Gordon playing SS in college and compare it to what Getz played last season at 2nd, Gordon was moved to third for a reason.

Come on Daver. He was moved because of the black hole at third. And he was now moved again because the Sox, like most scouts from the very beginning, think that's where he fits best defensively.

I respect your opinion, and appreciate the fact that you're one of the few that take the time to watch players defensively, but there isn't a lot of legitimate comparison to watching a college SS and pro 2b and comparing film. It doesn't translate very well. And Getz was very disappointing defensively last year.

Frater Perdurabo
11-07-2009, 11:26 AM
Right now the Sox offense/defense still has unanswered questions: Who plays right field? Who leads off? Who provides left-handed power? And given the self-imposed payroll constraints, there isn't much money to address those questions. The only avenue to improve the team is through more trades.

Despite all indications pointing to Teahen playing third base, I do not believe that is set in stone. I think he was acquired for his flexibiilty, to give KW the ability to make deals to fill as many holes as possible.

This reminds me of the Dustin Hermanson signing after 2004. We all were underwhelmed by his acquisition too, but he was acquired because he could start or relieve. Likewise, Teahen (and Kotsay) give KW flexibility.

russ99
11-07-2009, 06:01 PM
Right now the Sox offense/defense still has unanswered questions: Who plays right field? Who leads off? Who provides left-handed power? And given the self-imposed payroll constraints, there isn't much money to address those questions. The only avenue to improve the team is through more trades.

Despite all indications pointing to Teahen playing third base, I do not believe that is set in stone. I think he was acquired for his flexibiilty, to give KW the ability to make deals to fill as many holes as possible.

This reminds me of the Dustin Hermanson signing after 2004. We all were underwhelmed by his acquisition too, but he was acquired because he could start or relieve. Likewise, Teahen (and Kotsay) give KW flexibility.

As for the self-imposed payroll constraints, we had those last year too, and despite crying poor for half a season we went over $100M in payroll to get Peavy, Castro, Kotsay and Rios.

Based on Kenny's quotes, I think Jerry's given him a little wiggle room in the budget this offseason. But still if he's going to add a $10M player, he'd probably need to cut $5-7M first.

If Kenny stood pat on the current roster, that would be a huge waste. But since there's GM meetings, Winter meetings, and the FA market which looks to still be a bit lower than before the recession, I think most if not all the problem areas will be addressed.

soxtalker
11-07-2009, 08:33 PM
This trade makes a lot of sense to me. It buys KW the year that he needs for Viciendo to be ready to take over 3B. That doesn't preclude him doing something else, but he's got a workable solution if nothing else turns up.

I wouldn't be surprised if he trades AJ, as Flowers is probably closer to being ready.

Trading Konerko just doesn't make sense to me. It's not so much that KW can't replace his production or fill the 1B position. (I'm not saying that's easy.) But he's awfully hard to trade -- high salary, ability to veto any trade, etc.

I don't know what to say about RF, but I suspect KW will do something.

...
11-07-2009, 08:49 PM
Yeah, reaction speed and the ability to read a ball off the bat are dependent to the bat, what the hell was I thinking that instinct and natural talent had anything to do with it.

Dependent, relative to the speed of the ball off the bat, yes...

but please, don't be silly and let physics get in the way of your ego.

Daver
11-07-2009, 09:34 PM
Dependent, relative to the speed of the ball off the bat, yes...

but please, don't be silly and let physics get in the way of your ego.

This made me laugh, thank you.

...
11-07-2009, 09:55 PM
This made me laugh, thank you.

Do you ever incorporate logic into your argument or is it always just the same repetitive, condescending one liners?

http://www.artfulgamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/wow-jenkins.jpg

Daver
11-07-2009, 10:03 PM
Do you ever incorporate logic into your argument or is it always just the same repetitive, condescending one liners?

http://www.artfulgamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/wow-jenkins.jpg


What logic are you looking for to debate the obvious?

...
11-07-2009, 10:38 PM
What logic are you looking for to debate the obvious?

Any. I just want to see if it's there.

Tragg
11-08-2009, 09:40 AM
This reminds me of the Dustin Hermanson signing after 2004. We all were underwhelmed by his acquisition too, but he was acquired because he could start or relieve. Likewise, Teahen (and Kotsay) give KW flexibility.
Except that Hermanson was a signing.
Teahen and Kotsay basically do the same thing, except for Teahen playing 3rd.
We sure to use a lot of resources acquire utility talent.
Meanwhile, no RF, the team's greatest need.
Based on his comments, Guillen was awestruck with the skills of Kotsay; even more than he liked Wise and Erstad perhaps. We saw the disasters those latter 2 turned out to be when Guillen pencilled them into the starting lineup day after day. Williams absolutely cannot put Kotsay out there and expect to seriously contend.
We need a RF, and now a middle infielder.

SI1020
11-08-2009, 12:06 PM
He's not better than Beckham, and based on what I have seen, Getz played 2nd better than Gordon will, therefore you have a defensive downgrade IMO. I also know nothing about baseball, so take it for what it is worth. I'm sure at least some here feel that way about me, but it's only a message board so at the end of the day who really cares what anyone thinks about either one of us. That being said, I totally agree with you on this point. The Sox, a defensively challenged club to begin with just got appreciably worse in the field. I know there is absolutely no consensus whatsoever here about rating players defensively, but to me Teahen is a so so hitter who has proved to be subpar on defense at every position he's played.

TheBigHurtST
11-08-2009, 01:32 PM
One thing not mentioned was that Getz was always considered a possible leadoff man. When the Sox don't try to get Figgins and Pods goes to the highest bidder, I have no idea what their back up plan will be.

Highly likely the same backup plan they always have: none.

doublem23
11-08-2009, 01:58 PM
Except that Hermanson was a signing.
Teahen and Kotsay basically do the same thing, except for Teahen playing 3rd.
We sure to use a lot of resources acquire utility talent.
Meanwhile, no RF, the team's greatest need.
Based on his comments, Guillen was awestruck with the skills of Kotsay; even more than he liked Wise and Erstad perhaps. We saw the disasters those latter 2 turned out to be when Guillen pencilled them into the starting lineup day after day. Williams absolutely cannot put Kotsay out there and expect to seriously contend.
We need a RF, and now a middle infielder.

Chris Getz hardly qualifies as "a lot of resources." Josh Fields doesn't count because he is TERRIBLE.

Why do we need a middle infielder now? I thought it was kind of understood Beckham was going to 2B and Teahen to 3B? Anyways, do you own a calendar? It's the first week of November. Can't you at least wait until 2010 before you start whining? It would really make these boards a lot more readable.