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View Full Version : Mark McGwire to be Cards hitting coach


GoGoCrede
10-25-2009, 05:34 PM
Confirmed via ESPN text. Yipes.

and here - http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=3165&line=278232&spln=1

Frater Perdurabo
10-25-2009, 06:30 PM
What will his advice be? Cream, clear, HGH or andro?

"I'm not here to talk about the past, I want to focus on the future."

SOXSINCE'70
10-25-2009, 06:31 PM
I wonder what he looks like now.
Certainly not like the behemoth he was 10 years ago.

Rdy2PlayBall
10-25-2009, 06:53 PM
So what... is he like the official supplier now? :tongue:

jamokes
10-25-2009, 07:02 PM
This is kinda surprising, usually they pick the manager first!

BleacherBandit
10-25-2009, 07:09 PM
This opens so many areas for jokes. Let's get them all out of our system because the irony will be palpable for the rest of the year.

Viva Medias B's
10-25-2009, 07:16 PM
Why are the Cardinals doing this? Why would you hire someone who has been out of baseball in all capacities over the past number of years as your hitting instructor?

Frater Perdurabo
10-25-2009, 07:23 PM
This is kinda surprising, usually they pick the manager first!

I read somewhere that the latest thinking is LaRussa will stay.

Craig Grebeck
10-25-2009, 07:26 PM
Why are the Cardinals doing this? Why would you hire someone who has been out of baseball in all capacities over the past number of years as your hitting instructor?
He's worked as a hitting instructor privately with major leaguers for a little while now.

soxinem1
10-25-2009, 07:55 PM
Why are the Cardinals doing this? Why would you hire someone who has been out of baseball in all capacities over the past number of years as your hitting instructor?

This opens so many areas for jokes. Let's get them all out of our system because the irony will be palpable for the rest of the year.

Maybe STL and LaRussa think McGwire is the shot in the arm the team needs!!!

gobears1987
10-25-2009, 07:56 PM
Confirmed via ESPN text. Yipes.

and here - http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=3165&line=278232&spln=1
Lesson 1: Sticking a needle in your ass

TornLabrum
10-25-2009, 09:35 PM
Lesson 2: Put andro in your locker to divert attention from needle in ass.

ChiSoxGirl
10-25-2009, 09:54 PM
I'm very curious to know what my friend who works for the Cardinals thinks about this move. I'll have to ask him next time we talk.

white sox bill
10-26-2009, 06:25 AM
PED's aside, the man knows how to hit. (Not that would make him a great coach) Despite a lifetime avg of .263, he appears to have some people skills and a good communicator, so working w/the younger hitters may be a good fit.

g0g0
10-26-2009, 07:45 AM
Sad. I usually think of the Cards as a stand up type of club, but this really hurts their image. There's a reason Mark disappeared for years. The guy is a fake.

sox1970
10-26-2009, 09:21 AM
More reason to not like LaRussa. He really is a piece of crap.

...
10-26-2009, 09:41 AM
Sad. I usually think of the Cards as a stand up type of club, but this really hurts their image. There's a reason Mark disappeared for years. The guy is a fake.

I don't understand all the McGwire hate. Sterioids aside, he always seemed like a great guy. It just seems like angerly hating the alleged steroid users of the 90's is the "cool" thing to do. Now Bonds on the other hand, that guy was a jackass.

Billy Ashley
10-26-2009, 09:55 AM
I don't understand all the McGwire hate. Sterioids aside, he always seemed like a great guy. It just seems like angerly hating the alleged steroid users of the 90's is the "cool" thing to do. Now Bonds on the other hand, that guy was a jackass.

It's my hope that as we see more distance from the era, people will be more rational about PEDs. It was a problem throughout baseball, we'll never know who used and who didn't and impotently wagging out firsts at the few guys who got caught does nothing to but further drive what really happened into the shadows.

On a note about the statistics we've seen over the past couple decades- all statistics mean nothing without context.

PaleHoser
10-26-2009, 10:16 AM
Maybe he can talk to his hitters about his 1991 season. He hit .201, with a .383 slugging percentage and got held out of the last two games of the season so his season average would remain above .200.

...
10-26-2009, 10:51 AM
Maybe he can talk to his hitters about his 1991 season. He hit .201, with a .383 slugging percentage and got held out of the last two games of the season so his season average would remain above .200.

After that he can talk about his 1987 season where he hit 49 HR and batted .289 as a rookie.

He was a streaky hitter who rarely hit for average with monster power. Crucify him.

Billy Ashley
10-26-2009, 11:04 AM
After that he can talk about his 1987 season where he hit 49 HR and batted .289 as a rookie.

He was a streaky hitter who rarely hit for average with monster power. Crucify him.

What's funny is that while that season did in fact suck, it wasn't a total disaster. He did post an OPS+ of 103 that year due to walk totals. The following season he was of course one of the best hitters in baseball.

His testimony was so lame before congress- but really, people have been cheating for decades. I'm certain people used roid's prior to Canseco. Beyond that, we know, know for a fact that those good ole wholesome teams of yonder year used speed.

There are a hell of a lot worse people to have played the game than McGwire. I'd much rather hang out with Big Mac, Rafeal Palmerio and Roger Clemens than Cap Anson or Ty Cobb.

akingamongstmen
10-26-2009, 11:11 AM
I don't really get the McGwire hate to be honest. He cheated and did a really bad job of covering it up, but that was actually a pretty long time ago. Let's all just move on.

That said, I have no clue what the Cardinals are thinking here. McGwire hit a lot of homers based largely on freak talent (with some added juice). I don't ever remember thinking or hearing that he had a great approach to hitting. Plus, he's going to be a HUGE distraction to the team with all of the negative media attention.

jabrch
10-26-2009, 11:39 AM
I don't really get the McGwire hate to be honest. He cheated and did a really bad job of covering it up, but that was actually a pretty long time ago. Let's all just move on.


That's your choice. For me, unless he admits it, I have no interest in "moving on". I don't spend tons of time dwelling on it, but when the topic comes up, I have no problem discussing it. If he wants to come back to the game as a hitting instructor, he ought be well prepared for discussions, by fans, media and even players, about how he hit like he did.

whitem0nkey
10-26-2009, 12:11 PM
McGwire will make a great coach. He's very calculated and focuses on mechanics.


"Needle must go in at 45 degree angle, short darting motion. Use the hips, PIVOT."

soxinem1
10-26-2009, 12:19 PM
I don't really get the McGwire hate to be honest. He cheated and did a really bad job of covering it up, but that was actually a pretty long time ago. Let's all just move on.

That said, I have no clue what the Cardinals are thinking here. McGwire hit a lot of homers based largely on freak talent (with some added juice). I don't ever remember thinking or hearing that he had a great approach to hitting. Plus, he's going to be a HUGE distraction to the team with all of the negative media attention.

To top that off, what happens if the team does not respond well and the STL offense struggles?

Roids and controversy aside, McGwire was not known as a good hitter. Things like taking the ball the other way, bunting, hit and run, hitting behind runners, etc. were not part of his game.

What will he bring to the table for guys like Shumaker, Ryan, Molina, and Rasmus?

soxfanreggie
10-26-2009, 12:26 PM
Roids and controversy aside, McGwire was not known as a good hitter. Things like taking the ball the other way, bunting, hit and run, hitting behind runners, etc. were not part of his game.


It doesn't matter if he did them himself; it only matters if he can teach them/is responsible if the team does them.

Our pitching coach didn't light the world on fire during his playing career: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/coopedo01.shtml

Did our hitting coach do those same things? http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/walkegr01.shtml

DSpivack
10-26-2009, 01:06 PM
I don't understand all the McGwire hate. Sterioids aside, he always seemed like a great guy. It just seems like angerly hating the alleged steroid users of the 90's is the "cool" thing to do. Now Bonds on the other hand, that guy was a jackass.

Bonds, McGwire, Sosa. They're all cheats, I don't hate on Bonds any more than the others just because he's a jackass.

Craig Grebeck
10-26-2009, 01:09 PM
To top that off, what happens if the team does not respond well and the STL offense struggles?

Roids and controversy aside, McGwire was not known as a good hitter. Things like taking the ball the other way, bunting, hit and run, hitting behind runners, etc. were not part of his game.

What will he bring to the table for guys like Shumaker, Ryan, Molina, and Rasmus?
You might want to rephrase that. Power hitters = good hitters.

Nellie_Fox
10-26-2009, 01:16 PM
You might want to rephrase that. Power hitters = good hitters.Dave Kingman was not a good hitter.

Craig Grebeck
10-26-2009, 01:23 PM
Dave Kingman was not a good hitter.
I hurried through that post. It should read: .394/.588 = good hitter.

Billy Ashley
10-26-2009, 01:23 PM
Bonds, McGwire, Sosa. They're all cheats, I don't hate on Bonds any more than the others just because he's a jackass.

Do you also hate the up to 80% of ballplayers that have used amphetamines over the past 5 decades?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2006/04/02/PBP_AMPHET_0402.html

Greenies came to baseball in the 1940's, they were often found in bowls before games. Tons and tons of players used them.

Is Willie Mays a cheat and deserve to be purged from the Hall?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kreidler_mark&id=2225013

What are your thoughts on Gaylord Perry? Howard Johnson? Albert Belle?

Billy Ashley
10-26-2009, 01:27 PM
Oh and the guy was not a good hitter, he was one of the best 50 hitters of all time. He may not be able to coach worth a damn, and I do agree that the Cards are opening them up to some negative (and stupid) press over this but to argue that he was not a great hitter is insane.

It's not like he was Tony Armas Sr. The guy got on base 40% of the time he came to the plate.

On a side note- I'm not big on LaRussa, very overrated in my book. Even though it would be dumb, it would be funny if this blew up in his face.

tstrike2000
10-26-2009, 01:52 PM
I personally think this is a good move by the Cardinals. Just working with McGwire, the Cardinals should see an enhancement in their offensive performance in no time.

RedHeadPaleHoser
10-26-2009, 02:05 PM
I wonder what he looks like now.
Certainly not like the behemoth he was 10 years ago.

Probably makes Ron Howard look like Charles Atlas.

g0g0
10-26-2009, 02:24 PM
I don't understand all the McGwire hate. Sterioids aside, he always seemed like a great guy. It just seems like angerly hating the alleged steroid users of the 90's is the "cool" thing to do. Now Bonds on the other hand, that guy was a jackass.

I haven't been in high school for 17 years and I don't watch MTV so I don't know what all the "cool" people are doing. But to have a club hire a man who's hid like a coward for years because of steroids is a shame. What I hate most about these big name roiders is that a lot of records fell and are now in their name. For every great player that injected or cheated in some way, there is another great player who played the game right. I applaud those honest players.

Craig Grebeck
10-26-2009, 02:28 PM
I haven't been in high school for 17 years and I don't watch MTV so I don't know what all the "cool" people are doing. But to have a club hire a man who's hid like a coward for years because of steroids is a shame. What I hate most about these big name roiders is that a lot of records fell and are now in their name. For every great player that injected or cheated in some way, there is another great player who played the game right. I applaud those honest players.
You don't know who those guys are! You also don't know who took amphetamines long before PEDs became a national issue.

Billy Ashley
10-26-2009, 02:50 PM
Yep-

Sometimes it seems that people can just ignore mountains of arguments (Or maybe that have me on block)

The PED debate brings out the worst in us fans.

So many of us jump to judgement despite the fact that we don't know, nor will we ever know who used and how much it impacted their game.

Some Fallacies about PEDs

1- They are a short cut to success.

-Not really, the guys using HgH and Steroids are using them not to get freaky strong but rather to allow their body to heal after marathon workouts. It may sound like I'm splitting hairs, but when we look at a guy like Bonds, it's not the steroids that made him a monster. It's the fact that the steroids allowed him to continue to work out harder than anyone else as he advanced in age. Certainly, without PED's he probably doesn't become the Home Run King, but it's not like HgH helped him learn how to dominate the strike zone and hit the baseball. Tons of players have used steroids and amounted to nothing. It's not like Termell Strong won a bunch of MVPs.

2- The offensive explosion was completely due to PEDs

-We don't know who used, most players who've been candid have given percentages north of 50%. Lot's of pitchers have been caught, from Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte to Derek Turnbow and Paxton Crawford. Again, there are a ton of **** pitchers who used as well.

3- PEDs is a problem that started in the 1980's, it's tainted the game, it's no longer pure.

-Like the Virgin Queen of England, baseball wasn't exactly as pure as the populace likes to pretend. We've had speed in baseball since the 1940's. Johnny Damon once argued that if baseball were really going to test for speed they'd have to knock 20 games of the schedule as just about everyone is using down the stretch. This was also the case when Willie Freak'n May was playing (and I still think he's the best overall player of all time despite the fact that he almost certainly used speed).

4- You can tell this guy used, he was so jacked.

Manny Alexander and a whole bunch of other horrible middle infielders would be to differ. Track stars use roid's, every sport has problems with PEDs.



I'm not a steroid apologist. It's against the law to use/ traffic this stuff. However, the problem isn't just the culture among the players. A great deal of blame should fall on the shoulders of the owners, the media and the fans.

Baseball needs to do everything it can to combat this problem, not only because it looks bad but because we've got a Miguel Tejada plugging a Palmeiro in the ass in every clubhouse in this country. These guys are putting themselves in great risk in terms of long term health. Additionally, they aiding unethical doctors by paying for this crap.

In order to stop this problem from lasting forever, we're going to need to have harsh penalties from those who caught today and in the future. As for the past, we've got to just accept what it was and encourage players to come forward.

Throwing fits about the few guys who actually got caught is only going to create less transparency.

Billy Ashley
10-26-2009, 03:10 PM
I will say that this did make me laugh:


McGwire: See, what you want to be doing is hitting dingers.
McGwire: When you go up there, first pitch, you're looking dead red so you can hit a dinger.
McGwire: Sometimes you're gonna miss. That's okay. Stick to your guns. There's no more efficient way of scoring than hitting a dinger. That's what we want to be doing.
McGwire: The pitcher might pick up on your strategy. Don't worry about it. He's more afraid of you than you are of him.
McGwire: If he throws you something offspeed, like a curveball, don't be fooled. Just hit it for a dinger.
McGwire: Walks are good too. If the pitcher tries to get you to chase something out of the zone, don't swing at it.
McGwire: You only want to swing at strikes. Take balls. Hit strikes for dingers.
McGwire: Now let's break up and practice. Group A, get in there. I want to see you guys hitting dingers. Group B, practice your dinger swings.
McGwire: Who's first in Group A? Skip? Get in there, Skip.
McGwire: Let's see some dingers!
Schumaker:
Schumaker: Coach, I don't
McGwire: What're you doing over there?
McGwire: You're standing on the wrong side of the plate. Bat righty.
McGwire: You hit dingers batting righty.

ComiskeyBrewer
10-26-2009, 03:18 PM
You might want to rephrase that. Power hitters = good hitters.

Rob Deer says hello.

khan
10-26-2009, 03:18 PM
Do you also hate the up to 80% of ballplayers that have used amphetamines over the past 5 decades?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2006/04/02/PBP_AMPHET_0402.html

Greenies came to baseball in the 1940's, they were often found in bowls before games. Tons and tons of players used them.

Is Willie Mays a cheat and deserve to be purged from the Hall?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kreidler_mark&id=2225013

What are your thoughts on Gaylord Perry? Howard Johnson? Albert Belle?

This is ridiculous at best. The 60 HR season stood as a record for 34 years. The 61 HR season stood as a record for a further 37. So, the record went from 60 [pre amphetamines] to 61. [with amphetamines, but without 'roids]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progression_of_the_single-season_MLB_home_run_record

Over all that time, amphetamines did little to substantially change the game. The "amphetamines" argument holds little weight whatsoever when comparing them to harder drugs like 'roids and HGH.

khan
10-26-2009, 03:21 PM
Some Fallacies about PEDs

1- They are a short cut to success.

-Not really, the guys using HgH and Steroids are using them not to get freaky strong but rather to allow their body to heal after marathon workouts. It may sound like I'm splitting hairs, but when we look at a guy like Bonds, it's not the steroids that made him a monster.
Wow.

Craig Grebeck
10-26-2009, 03:21 PM
Rob Deer says hello.
Hullo! (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2375333&postcount=30)

Billy Ashley
10-26-2009, 03:41 PM
This is ridiculous at best. The 60 HR season stood as a record for 34 years. The 61 HR season stood as a record for a further 37. So, the record went from 60 [pre amphetamines] to 61. [with amphetamines, but without 'roids]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progression_of_the_single-season_MLB_home_run_record

Over all that time, amphetamines did little to substantially change the game. The "amphetamines" argument holds little weight whatsoever when comparing them to harder drugs like 'roids and HGH.

Lot's of things changed during those stretched that had more of an impact on the game of baseball than PED use- Integration, expansion, surge in Latin American players, surge in Japanese players, lowering of the mound, addition of the DH, advances in coaching (watch the world series games from the 1950's some awful looking baseball played back then), weight lifting w/out PEDs, additional emphasis on stretching, reduced work loads on pitchers, the modern bull pen, banning the spit ball, creation of the slider and so much more.

Roid's were rampant in the 1980's we didn't see anywhere near the HR explosion that we so in the 1990's.


Wow.

Go ahead and scuff, the guy was a top 20 hitter prior to 2000 (the year he allegedly started using). My point is that the PED's didn't make him stronger, it just allowed him to work in the gym at rates that would have crippled him otherwise. You can do a lot of PED's and sit on your ass all day and still suck at sports.

Daver
10-26-2009, 03:45 PM
more pitchers have been caught using steroids at the minor league level than position players,I have little doubt that this would also be true at the major league level.

khan
10-26-2009, 03:52 PM
Lot's of things changed during those stretched that had more of an impact on the game of baseball than PED use- Integration, expansion, surge in Latin American players, surge in Japanese players, lowering of the mound, addition of the DH, advances in coaching (watch the world series games from the 1950's some awful looking baseball played back then), weight lifting w/out PEDs, additional emphasis on stretching, reduced work loads on pitchers, the modern bull pen, banning the spit ball, creation of the slider and so much more.
And, despite all that, the season HR record STILL remained essentially static for 70+ years.

Yet, miraculously, the explosion in 'roid/PED use are supposed to be equated with that of amphetamines?

Roid's were rampant in the 1980's we didn't see anywhere near the HR explosion that we so in the 1990's.
I disagree that 'roids were "rampant" in the '80s as they were in the '90s. I agree that there was some usage, but nothing like we saw in the '90s and early part of this decade.

Go ahead and scuff, the guy was a top 20 hitter prior to 2000 (the year he allegedly started using). My point is that the PED's didn't make him stronger, it just allowed him to work in the gym at rates that would have crippled him otherwise. You can do a lot of PED's and sit on your ass all day and still suck at sports.

So answer this: Why would Bonds, et. al want to work out in the gym at rates that would have crippled him otherwise? For the hell of it?

EDIT: You do mean "scoff," right?

Billy Ashley
10-26-2009, 03:55 PM
it allowed him to prolong his career and reach new heights via training, I've never disputed this. I'm disputing the claim that it's a short cut.

The guy put himself through hell in the gym to get that big- that's not easy.

Additionally, as much as it pains me to say it- Daver's right, more pitchers have been busted than hitters.

khan
10-26-2009, 03:57 PM
it allowed him to prolong his career and reach new heights via training,
By adding muscle at a rate that is artificial? At least, artificial for a man his age, right?

g0g0
10-26-2009, 05:46 PM
You don't know who those guys are! You also don't know who took amphetamines long before PEDs became a national issue.

Sure there will always be guys who would surprise you if the truth got found out, but are you insinuating that every record is tarnished? I didn't point to anyone in particular because you are right- it's hard to know. But like I said, I applaud those our there doing the right thing.

TheVulture
10-29-2009, 01:35 PM
Larussa and McGwire should be banned from baseball.

voodoochile
10-29-2009, 01:58 PM
McGwire will make a great coach. He's very calculated and focuses on mechanics.


"Needle must go in at 45 degree angle, short darting motion. Use the hips, PIVOT."


Random Cardinal Player: "Hey Mark, I'm really struggling with the pitcher we face tomorrow. Can you give me some tips on how to hit him better?"

Mark McGwire: "Sure, meet you in the bathroom in fifteen minutes?"

RCP: "The bathroom? Why would we watch film in the bathroom?"

MM:"Um... because... um... well... because it's private that's why. Don't want the whole world to know you are struggling do you?"

RCP: "Hey good point. I guess that's why you're the hitting coach because you think of things like that. When's a good time for you, coach?"

MM: "Well, I need my coaching tools, but can be there in 10 minutes. You should go ahead and get ready."

RCP: "Get ready? Should I do some stretching exercises or something?"

MM: "If you want to, just remember the key points I emphasize when getting ready. One, take off you pants. Two, Go into a stall. Three, bend over and close your eyes."

RCP: "Sounds weird, but you're the coach. I'll head there now."

MM: "I'll meet you there and remember, when you feel the jab, don't yell..."

soxinem1
10-29-2009, 05:37 PM
Random Cardinal Player: "Hey Mark, I'm really struggling with the pitcher we face tomorrow. Can you give me some tips on how to hit him better?"

Mark McGwire: "Sure, meet you in the bathroom in fifteen minutes?"

RCP: "The bathroom? Why would we watch film in the bathroom?"

MM:"Um... because... um... well... because it's private that's why. Don't want the whole world to know you are struggling do you?"

RCP: "Hey good point. I guess that's why you're the hitting coach because you think of things like that. When's a good time for you, coach?"

MM: "Well, I need my coaching tools, but can be there in 10 minutes. You should go ahead and get ready."

RCP: "Get ready? Should I do some stretching exercises or something?"

MM: "If you want to, just remember the key points I emphasize when getting ready. One, take off you pants. Two, Go into a stall. Three, bend over and close your eyes."

RCP: "Sounds weird, but you're the coach. I'll head there now."

MM: "I'll meet you there and remember, when you feel the jab, don't yell..."

Sounds like a pure case of Dr. Jeckyl:

http://thenastyboys.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/9150280-barry-bonds.jpg

And Mr. Hyde:

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/john_donovan/11/05/hotstove.season/t1_barry_bonds.jpg

nasox
10-30-2009, 11:21 AM
PED's aside, the man knows how to hit. (Not that would make him a great coach) Despite a lifetime avg of .263, he appears to have some people skills and a good communicator, so working w/the younger hitters may be a good fit.

Except with Congress.

nasox
10-30-2009, 11:23 AM
Random Cardinal Player: "Hey Mark, I'm really struggling with the pitcher we face tomorrow. Can you give me some tips on how to hit him better?"

Mark McGwire: "Sure, meet you in the bathroom in fifteen minutes?"

RCP: "The bathroom? Why would we watch film in the bathroom?"

MM:"Um... because... um... well... because it's private that's why. Don't want the whole world to know you are struggling do you?"

RCP: "Hey good point. I guess that's why you're the hitting coach because you think of things like that. When's a good time for you, coach?"

MM: "Well, I need my coaching tools, but can be there in 10 minutes. You should go ahead and get ready."

RCP: "Get ready? Should I do some stretching exercises or something?"

MM: "If you want to, just remember the key points I emphasize when getting ready. One, take off you pants. Two, Go into a stall. Three, bend over and close your eyes."

RCP: "Sounds weird, but you're the coach. I'll head there now."

MM: "I'll meet you there and remember, when you feel the jab, don't yell..."

Mod edit: Nope.

Fenway
11-01-2009, 02:26 PM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2009/11/01/allowing_mcgwire_back_is_a_cardinal_sin_by_selig/

Bob Ryan is at his best when he is angry...and is he ever on this

Waysouthsider
11-02-2009, 07:16 AM
STL is out of their minds on this whole Mark McGuire deal...they have been supporting/celebrating him all along even though everyone else in the country has been aware of McGuire's abuses....I live in Cardinal country down here and these guys are out of their minds....kind of like SF with the Bonds-love....hard to understand. Guess its the idea that he may be a cheater but he's "our cheater!"

voodoochile
11-02-2009, 09:18 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2009/11/01/allowing_mcgwire_back_is_a_cardinal_sin_by_selig/

Bob Ryan is at his best when he is angry...and is he ever on this

I thought the second to last paragraph was interesting and find myself wondering if there's something else going on. Is this La Russa's way of paying McGwire back for keep La Russa's name out of the steroid talks? Is this even something more sinister like McGwire threatening to write a tell all book and name Tony as the ultimate enabler unless he gets the job? Is all of this why Selig is so happy to have this blight on the game back in the public eye?

My gut tells me something else is going on though maybe I'm just jaded after all MLB has put me (and all of us) through on this issue over the last few decades.

Fenway
11-02-2009, 01:50 PM
I thought the second to last paragraph was interesting and find myself wondering if there's something else going on. Is this La Russa's way of paying McGwire back for keep La Russa's name out of the steroid talks? Is this even something more sinister like McGwire threatening to write a tell all book and name Tony as the ultimate enabler unless he gets the job? Is all of this why Selig is so happy to have this blight on the game back in the public eye?

My gut tells me something else is going on though maybe I'm just jaded after all MLB has put me (and all of us) through on this issue over the last few decades.

La Russa was with Oakland when the Bash Brothers were together. Before the 1988 ALCS Tom Boswell wrote a column saying the A's were juiced and it centered on Canseco. The Boston Globe reprinted it and the Fenway crowd chanted S-T-E-R-O-I-D-S at Jose every at-bat. That was 21 YEARS AGO. Remember the Ben Johnson mess in the Olympics had just been exposed.

McGwire raised eyebrows at Fenway in 1984 when he was playing with the US Olympic Team. He hit a ball off a college pitcher with an aluminum bat that hit the Marlboro sign in the back of the right center bleachers (590 feet)

Now I have to question things I saw with the White Sox in the early 80's. There were quite a few roof shots in that era and now I wonder. Who was the manager? La Russa.

voodoochile
11-02-2009, 02:15 PM
La Russa was with Oakland when the Bash Brothers were together. Before the 1988 ALCS Tom Boswell wrote a column saying the A's were juiced and it centered on Canseco. The Boston Globe reprinted it and the Fenway crowd chanted S-T-E-R-O-I-D-S at Jose every at-bat. That was 21 YEARS AGO. Remember the Ben Johnson mess in the Olympics had just been exposed.

McGwire raised eyebrows at Fenway in 1984 when he was playing with the US Olympic Team. He hit a ball off a college pitcher with an aluminum bat that hit the Marlboro sign in the back of the right center bleachers (590 feet)

Now I have to question things I saw with the White Sox in the early 80's. There were quite a few roof shots in that era and now I wonder. Who was the manager? La Russa.

Certainly that's a valid question given La Russa's track history, and I know that I am biased the other way, but it seems the Bash Brothers, La Russa and BALCO all came together in some synergism of evil back in the late 80's, so I don't know how prevalent it was prior to that. I am sure there were random players who used, but I sincerely doubt it was a widespread phenomenon.

Jim Shorts
11-02-2009, 02:16 PM
I thought the second to last paragraph was interesting and find myself wondering if there's something else going on. Is this La Russa's way of paying McGwire back for keep La Russa's name out of the steroid talks? Is this even something more sinister like McGwire threatening to write a tell all book and name Tony as the ultimate enabler unless he gets the job? Is all of this why Selig is so happy to have this blight on the game back in the public eye?

My gut tells me something else is going on though maybe I'm just jaded after all MLB has put me (and all of us) through on this issue over the last few decades.

I don't think it's necessarily that sinister. Holliday has worked with McGwire for several STs. Cards want to re-sign Holliday and in turn, Pujols.

I think it's that and LaRussa's ego at play.

Nellie_Fox
11-02-2009, 03:08 PM
Now I have to question things I saw with the White Sox in the early 80's. There were quite a few roof shots in that era and now I wonder. Who was the manager? La Russa.Home plate was moved forward ten feet or so immediately before the spate of roof shots.