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View Full Version : Alex Rodriguez is not clutch, he's a choker, and he can't hit in the post season.


jabrch
10-21-2009, 11:19 AM
.407/.469/1.000/1.469

The small sample size of one post season is equally as invalid as the small sample size from just a few post season serieses. But I still think it is a completely ridiculous arguement to have made in the past. This is one of the very few best hitters in the game today. Of course he can hit in the post season.

october23sp
10-21-2009, 11:25 AM
He also took steroids.

TDog
10-21-2009, 11:27 AM
He also took steroids.

You can't choke on steroids if you don't take them orally.

asindc
10-21-2009, 11:28 AM
He also took steroids.

True, but is he taking them now?

october23sp
10-21-2009, 11:29 AM
True, but is he taking them now?

Who knows? But he did and that gives me reason to believe he is now.

jabrch
10-21-2009, 11:30 AM
True, but is he taking them now?


Regardless, wouldn't he have been taking them in post seasons prior when he took them in the regular season, and was deemed an unclutch choker for a sample size of 30 ABs as compared to a 600 AB season?

soltrain21
10-21-2009, 11:32 AM
Who knows? But he did and that gives me reason to believe he is now.

It actually gives you no reason to believe he is still taking steroids.

october23sp
10-21-2009, 11:33 AM
It actually gives you no reason to believe he is still taking steroids.

Because we know he is capable and aware of how to use steroids?

soltrain21
10-21-2009, 11:35 AM
Because we know he is capable and aware of how to use steroids?

Anyone could be capable and aware of how to use steroids. What is your point about that? I'm sure I could Google "how to use steroids" and be just as aware.

He got "busted" once - why the hell would we do it again? He already knew the **** storm that happens - do you really think he would want to go through that again, but have it be magnified even more?

He isn't taking steroids anymore. And, steroids or not, he is still one of the best hitters we will see in our lifetimes.

Madvora
10-21-2009, 12:00 PM
Anyone could be capable and aware of how to use steroids. What is your point about that? I'm sure I could Google "how to use steroids" and be just as aware.

He got "busted" once - why the hell would we do it again? He already knew the **** storm that happens - do you really think he would want to go through that again, but have it be magnified even more?

He isn't taking steroids anymore. And, steroids or not, he is still one of the best hitters we will see in our lifetimes.
Why would Rafael Palmeiro continue using steroids after getting called in front of congress?

beasly213
10-21-2009, 12:06 PM
Anyone could be capable and aware of how to use steroids. What is your point about that? I'm sure I could Google "how to use steroids" and be just as aware.

He got "busted" once - why the hell would we do it again? He already knew the **** storm that happens - do you really think he would want to go through that again, but have it be magnified even more?

He isn't taking steroids anymore. And, steroids or not, he is still one of the best hitters we will see in our lifetimes.

Maybe he isn't taking steroids maybe he is. But that still doesnt mean he wouldn't be taking other stuff such as HGH and whatever other things labs have made that aren't traceable in tests.

If he took them before there is no reason for me to think he wouldn't take a PED again.

Craig Grebeck
10-21-2009, 12:20 PM
Steroids or not, one of the best players of our generation. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Trav
10-21-2009, 01:42 PM
I doubt many players are doing roids. I am willing to bet most switched to the HGH type stuff as soon as Selig made it clear no blood tests would ever be on the table.

khan
10-21-2009, 01:52 PM
He got "busted" once - why the hell would we do it again?
A fair question. But did he REALLY get "busted?" Did he get suspended? Did he get the clowns over at a certain network to remove their collective lips from his ass?

He already knew the **** storm that happens - do you really think he would want to go through that again, but have it be magnified even more?
I don't know. Do they test during this time of the year?

If they don't test right now, why NOT? Why NOT get the "post-season choker" label off your back? Why NOT get legions of morons who watch a certain network to kiss your ass? Why NOT get each and every advantage, legal or not?

He isn't taking steroids anymore.
We don't know this to be true or not, unless there are current tests that show this to be the fact. He very well could be, or he very well could be off the juice. Nobody knows for certain, except for the guy who knowingly cheated in the past and lied on national TV.

For that matter, there could be as-yet undetectable substances being used by A-rod and others in the game.

And, steroids or not, he is still one of the best hitters we will see in our lifetimes.
To this, we can agree.

Ranger
10-21-2009, 03:02 PM
.407/.469/1.000/1.469

The small sample size of one post season is equally as invalid as the small sample size from just a few post season serieses. But I still think it is a completely ridiculous arguement to have made in the past. This is one of the very few best hitters in the game today. Of course he can hit in the post season.

Believe it or not, I've found this to be the most enjoyable element of the postseason (aside from the Twins getting rolled). I used to absolutely despise the "ARod can't hit when it counts" nonsense. Just because he hadn't yet, doesn't mean he couldn't. As I've said many times over the last couple of years, with a guy like that, I would take my chances in the playoffs. When I heard stuff like that, all I could think was, "come on, people...he's one of the best in the game."

Craig Grebeck
10-21-2009, 03:22 PM
Believe it or not, I've found this to be the most enjoyable element of the postseason (aside from the Twins getting rolled). I used to absolutely despise the "ARod can't hit when it counts" nonsense. Just because he hadn't yet, doesn't mean he couldn't. As I've said many times over the last couple of years, with a guy like that, I would take my chances in the playoffs. When I heard stuff like that, all I could think was, "come on, people...he's one of the best in the game."
Exactly. It was an absurd idea.

TDog
10-21-2009, 05:49 PM
Of course, there are people who don't care that Barry Bonds (apparently) took steroids. There are still more people who care that Sammy Sosa (apparently) took steroids because he was more fun than Barry Bonds.

But obviously, there is a double standard. People say the "'roiders" aren't going to make it into the Hall of Fame. With some players, the label will mean something, and with some it will be ignored. I might be wrong, but I expect Ivan Rodriguez will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer when the time comes, which is something Carlton "Pudge" Fisk wasn't. Nationally, people don't seem to care that Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez immorally if not illegally enhanced his performance. They care even less that Alex Rodriguez is dirty, although I no longer hear baseball fans saying they hope Alex Rodriguez breaks Barry Bonds record so the home run crown can return to the head of a clean player.

And I suppose if a player plays well for your team, you are disposed not to care.

I just find the double standard humorous.

Oblong
10-21-2009, 08:27 PM
Back to Clutch....

Postseason record
Pitcher A
3-0 1.80 ERA

Pitcher B
0-4 7.26 ERA

Pitcher C
1-3 9.47 ERA

Pitcher D
3-0 1.19 ERA

Who are they....?

doublem23
10-21-2009, 08:35 PM
A-Rod is a Yankee. So I don't like him. So he sucks.

This isn't hard logic to follow, folks.

palehozenychicty
10-22-2009, 12:24 AM
A-Rod is a Yankee. So I don't like him. So he sucks.

This isn't hard logic to follow, folks.

Score! :gulp:

SOXSINCE'70
10-22-2009, 07:09 AM
The secret to his post season success is easy:
He's trying to impress Kate Hudson and Goldie Hawn. :)

Honest.

jabrch
10-22-2009, 07:50 AM
Believe it or not, I've found this to be the most enjoyable element of the postseason (aside from the Twins getting rolled). I used to absolutely despise the "ARod can't hit when it counts" nonsense. Just because he hadn't yet, doesn't mean he couldn't. As I've said many times over the last couple of years, with a guy like that, I would take my chances in the playoffs. When I heard stuff like that, all I could think was, "come on, people...he's one of the best in the game."


And by the way, he had in one series, in Seattle. He just didn't in a few serieses in NY.

Yanks fans, and the Steinbrenners don't deserve this guy.

jabrch
10-22-2009, 07:51 AM
A-Rod is a Yankee. So I don't like him. So he sucks.

This isn't hard logic to follow, folks.


It's one thing to not like him...it's another to say he sucks.

soltrain21
10-22-2009, 11:33 AM
It's one thing to not like him...it's another to say he sucks.

He thinks Derek Jeter "sucks" too just because he is a Yankee. I enjoy good baseball, but apparently that is a dumb thing to do.

doublem23
10-22-2009, 02:01 PM
It's one thing to not like him...it's another to say he sucks.

A-Rod sucks. Jeter sucks. Their whole team sucks. Now, if they were the Sox, they'd be awesome.

:dunno:

AZChiSoxFan
10-22-2009, 02:18 PM
Back to Clutch....

Postseason record
Pitcher A
3-0 1.80 ERA

Pitcher B
0-4 7.26 ERA

Pitcher C
1-3 9.47 ERA

Pitcher D
3-0 1.19 ERA

Who are they....?

Do tell.

Oblong
10-22-2009, 02:54 PM
Do tell.


Pitcher A
Jack Morris 1984, 1991

Pitcher B
Jack Morris 1987, 1992

Pitcher C
CC Sabathia 2001, 2007, 2008

Pitcher D
CC Sabathia 2009

Just expanding on the point in the original thread that we probably make too much of player's post season performance. I was thinking that very thing when they flashed CC's 2009 record so far. The thought came up "But I thought he was a choker in the playoffs."

I was going to include Kenny Rogers but his 2006 was tained by iodide on his hands! (3 year old joke)

Mendoza Line
10-22-2009, 03:01 PM
Why don't we wait until after the playoffs are over before determining if he is clutch or not? I recall a Yankee team with a 3-0 ALCS lead five years ago that could have used a few clutch hits from said individual.

asindc
10-22-2009, 03:12 PM
Why don't we wait until after the playoffs are over before determining if he is clutch or not? I recall a Yankee team with a 3-0 ALCS lead five years ago that could have used a few clutch hits from said individual.

They could have also used a few clutch hits from Jeter, Williams, Posada or others who don't have the choker label applied to them.

doublem23
10-22-2009, 03:44 PM
They could have also used a few clutch hits from Jeter, Williams, Posada or others who don't have the choker label applied to them.

You'll need to remind us again what is it that those guys have done (repeatedly) in their careers that A-Rod has yet to accomplish.

asindc
10-22-2009, 03:50 PM
You'll need to remind us again what is it that those guys have done (repeatedly) in their careers that A-Rod has yet to accomplish.

I'm simply noting that if we are going to wait until the current playoffs are over before recognizing Rodriguez as a good playoff performer, maybe we should also wait before declaring that Jeter or Posada have not choked this postseason. Seems to me that whether you are talking about Rodriguez, Jeter, or Posada, the Yanks would not have advanced to the ALCS and would not be up 3-1 in this series without each of these players' contributions. If Rodriguez choked in the 2004 ALCS, so did the rest of the team. Yet, he is the one being labeled a choker from that series, not the others.