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Red Barchetta
10-17-2009, 11:46 AM
Does anyone know if the SOX plan to continue developing the north side parking lot/restaurant/gift shop, etc. that the new glass enclosed entrance was built for? Also, any other smaller renovations planned?

As mentioned earlier, I would love to see them continue to paint/touch up the interior of the park with dark green on the railings, etc. and perhaps add some more decorative brick.

Also, they need to do something about the face of the pressbox. The holes where the monitors used to be mounted look like crap when they show Hawk and Stoney on TV. Hopefully they will remove the pinwheel decals as well. I would love to see the pressbox area get the brick-over treatment similar to the concourse aisle sections.

skobabe8
10-17-2009, 03:15 PM
Does anyone know if the SOX plan to continue developing the north side parking lot/restaurant/gift shop, etc. that the new glass enclosed entrance was built for? Also, any other smaller renovations planned?

As mentioned earlier, I would love to see them continue to paint/touch up the interior of the park with dark green on the railings, etc. and perhaps add some more decorative brick.

Also, they need to do something about the face of the pressbox. The holes where the monitors used to be mounted look like crap when they show Hawk and Stoney. Hopefully they will remove the pinwheel decals as well.

The pinwheels are a cool theme to have, but the decals along the 300 level are fading badly and do need to be changed.

I really do hope something happens with the potential retail at the new entrance.

C-Dawg
10-17-2009, 03:53 PM
Just don't call them peppermints! Seriously, I've overheard more than one casual fan inquire as to the importance of the "peppermints" all over the ballpark.

MarkZ35
10-17-2009, 03:57 PM
Ha ha I've never heard someone refer to those as peppermints but it doesn't surprise me. They do need to be changed like mentioned before. They are fading and look terrible now. I would love a restaurant/bar open year round. I'm not sure how good they would do year round but it would be fun watching the road playoff games there next year.

Bucky F. Dent
10-17-2009, 04:04 PM
IMO, as a history buff, they should develop some sort of a museum within the ballpark. Incorporate the statutes that they have already placed around the park, incorporate some video clips from past games and special events, incorporate elements from the old park, and other memorabilia, have exhibits dedicated to the players that have had their numbers retired. And yeah, I'd be more than willing to curate the thing! :D:

mzh
10-17-2009, 04:24 PM
IMO, as a history buff, they should develop some sort of a museum within the ballpark. Incorporate the statutes that they have already placed around the park, incorporate some video clips from past games and special events, incorporate elements from the old park, and other memorabilia, have exhibits dedicated to the players that have had their numbers retired. And yeah, I'd be more than willing to curate the thing! :D:

This sort of already exists, in a way. The wall of the upper deck has a mural going from corner to corner of the ballpark that is basically a timeline of the Sox, though it needs to be updated. Something similar to this would be pretty cool.

beasly213
10-17-2009, 07:15 PM
Other than some normal wear and tear updating I think the park is in amazing shape. It even looks great from the outside.

I'd like a gift shop open year round as an alternative to grandstand.

Warriorjan
10-17-2009, 11:38 PM
Bring back the Hall of Fame. I like looking at the stuff there.

dickallen15
10-18-2009, 07:59 AM
In that new structure they built on 35th street, there is a rather large unfinished area with glass doors facing 35th street. Does anyone know if that going to be a bar or souvenier shop?

Warriorjan
10-18-2009, 08:09 AM
Supposedly a restaurant/bar that would be open on non-game days as well (unsure about all-year or not).

DumpJerry
10-18-2009, 10:46 AM
I'd like a gift shop open year round as an alternative to grandstand.
The main gift shop on the 100 level is open all year.

beasly213
10-18-2009, 02:04 PM
The main gift shop on the 100 level is open all year.

Yea but I've tried to go there and they have odd hours. Every time i've gone they have told me "no one is here now to help you"

MARTINMVP
10-19-2009, 11:36 AM
They should either have a street level easy access gift shot directly outside of the stadium, or strike some deal with GrantStands making them an official distributor of White Sox merchandise.

DumpJerry
10-19-2009, 12:30 PM
They should either have a street level easy access gift shot directly outside of the stadium, or strike some deal with GrantStands making them an official distributor of White Sox merchandise.
They have easy access to the gift shop. Enter the ballpark at 35th and Shields, tell the receptionist you want to go to the gift shop and then take the elevator to the 100 level. It's really not that hard.

Why would they make Grandstand the "official" distributor of White Sox merchandise? MLB handles that task. Grandstand sells a wide variety of Sox stuff already, it's not like there is stuff they aren't selling.

Red Barchetta
10-19-2009, 12:40 PM
I would still like them to build a grand entrance in the LF corner. That would help those coming off the L train as well as help promote the park to those driving by on the Dan Ryan. Anything that gets rid of the ugly outside ramps is a plus.

oeo
10-19-2009, 06:20 PM
I would still like them to build a grand entrance in the LF corner. That would help those coming off the L train as well as help promote the park to those driving by on the Dan Ryan. Anything that gets rid of the ugly outside ramps is a plus.

How are they going to pay for that?

LoveYourSuit
10-19-2009, 07:26 PM
How are they going to pay for that?


I would do a relocation of the player's parking lot to the main entrance behind home plate (where the Scout Seat holders park).

Then I would use all that real estate behind LF to develop a strip of restaurants open year round and making the structure high enough to be visible from the Dan Ryan. I would make that LF strip have access into the ballpark from every restuarant.


If the Sox could one day do away with those lame as advertisement boards around the OF concourse, they can do wonders with all the real estate space on the othe side of those walls.

Picture the warehouse behind Camden or even the hated roof tops at Wrigley. Build some Chicago Style 3 flat buildings in place of those walls and use the space of retail. Then place the light towers on the roofs of those buildings.

C-Dawg
10-19-2009, 07:36 PM
They have easy access to the gift shop. Enter the ballpark at 35th and Shields, tell the receptionist you want to go to the gift shop and then take the elevator to the 100 level. It's really not that hard.



But like Beasly said, the hours are limited or sporadic. I've been there at, say, 1PM on a Saturday and found it closed. I would think that would be the busiest time of the week.

thomas35forever
10-19-2009, 10:11 PM
This sort of already exists, in a way. The wall of the upper deck has a mural going from corner to corner of the ballpark that is basically a timeline of the Sox, though it needs to be updated. Something similar to this would be pretty cool.
Yes. That thing has been around since they changed the name of the ballpark and only Buehrle and Konerko on that wall are still with the team. A LOT has happened with this team since the end of 2002. Take some of the Chicago history tidbits out to make room for the '05 season, the '03 ASG, Buehrle's achivements, Thome's milestone, etc. I don't think the UD concourse has been touched since they sealed the roof off.

DumpJerry
10-19-2009, 10:39 PM
I would do a relocation of the player's parking lot to the main entrance behind home plate (where the Scout Seat holders park).

Then I would use all that real estate behind LF to develop a strip of restaurants open year round and making the structure high enough to be visible from the Dan Ryan. I would make that LF strip have access into the ballpark from every restuarant.


If the Sox could one day do away with those lame as advertisement boards around the OF concourse, they can do wonders with all the real estate space on the othe side of those walls.

Picture the warehouse behind Camden or even the hated roof tops at Wrigley. Build some Chicago Style 3 flat buildings in place of those walls and use the space of retail. Then place the light towers on the roofs of those buildings.
Ummm....no. We just got rid of a wall of buildings along the Dan Ryan. You want to watch a game from a rooftop? Go north, young man, go north. The view from the Dan Ryan is pretty cool. You see the World Series sign, you see the seats, it just beckons you come inside and watch some baseball. If you are looking at a bunch of apartment buildings, what would you feel?

Also, how would an insurance company allow an abode to be built mere yards from the launching pad for fireworks? Yeah, that scaffolding you see in the south end of the players' lot is where they send up the fireworks. During postgame firework shows, they close off Wentworth, so it is 100% impossible to have apartment buildings there.

By the way, if you move the Players' Lot to where the Scout Seat lot is located please explain how to do the following imperatives?
1. Player Lot security.
2. Players' individual security walking from the Lot to the stadium when there are two major gates for fans to enter and the players' entrance is on the east side of the building.
Before you come up with some weird configuration, I'll answer it for you: can't be done unless you tear down the entire stadium and rebuilding with a different orientation.

Bucky F. Dent
10-20-2009, 11:22 AM
Yes. That thing has been around since they changed the name of the ballpark and only Buehrle and Konerko on that wall are still with the team. A LOT has happened with this team since the end of 2002. Take some of the Chicago history tidbits out to make room for the '05 season, the '03 ASG, Buehrle's achivements, Thome's milestone, etc. I don't think the UD concourse has been touched since they sealed the roof off.


And a mural just doesn't cut it, IMO, I want to do a full blown museum. Anyone who has ever been to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway knows what I'm talking about. It would not have to be as large as IMS, but it could certainly have the same feel.

WhiteSox5187
10-20-2009, 11:55 AM
Ummm....no. We just got rid of a wall of buildings along the Dan Ryan. You want to watch a game from a rooftop? Go north, young man, go north. The view from the Dan Ryan is pretty cool. You see the World Series sign, you see the seats, it just beckons you come inside and watch some baseball. If you are looking at a bunch of apartment buildings, what would you feel?

Also, how would an insurance company allow an abode to be built mere yards from the launching pad for fireworks? Yeah, that scaffolding you see in the south end of the players' lot is where they send up the fireworks. During postgame firework shows, they close off Wentworth, so it is 100% impossible to have apartment buildings there.

By the way, if you move the Players' Lot to where the Scout Seat lot is located please explain how to do the following imperatives?
1. Player Lot security.
2. Players' individual security walking from the Lot to the stadium when there are two major gates for fans to enter and the players' entrance is on the east side of the building.
Before you come up with some weird configuration, I'll answer it for you: can't be done unless you tear down the entire stadium and rebuilding with a different orientation.

This is just my two cents, but the one thing that I find "cool" about Wrigley is how if you weren't really looking for it, it almost takes you by surprise. Like during the off season there are times I've been driving up north and pass by it and go "oh! Look! There's Wrigley!" It would be cool if Comiskey could be like that, but it can't largely because of the Dan Ryan.

LoveYourSuit
10-20-2009, 12:56 PM
Ummm....no. We just got rid of a wall of buildings along the Dan Ryan. You want to watch a game from a rooftop? Go north, young man, go north. The view from the Dan Ryan is pretty cool. You see the World Series sign, you see the seats, it just beckons you come inside and watch some baseball. If you are looking at a bunch of apartment buildings, what would you feel?

Also, how would an insurance company allow an abode to be built mere yards from the launching pad for fireworks? Yeah, that scaffolding you see in the south end of the players' lot is where they send up the fireworks. During postgame firework shows, they close off Wentworth, so it is 100% impossible to have apartment buildings there.

By the way, if you move the Players' Lot to where the Scout Seat lot is located please explain how to do the following imperatives?
1. Player Lot security.
2. Players' individual security walking from the Lot to the stadium when there are two major gates for fans to enter and the players' entrance is on the east side of the building.
Before you come up with some weird configuration, I'll answer it for you: can't be done unless you tear down the entire stadium and rebuilding with a different orientation.


Yeah, rusted out advertisement boards and light towers is pretty damn impressive to see from the Dan Ryan:rolleyes:

Part of what makes Miller Park so damn impressive from the highway is the brick exterior of the building. I want to see brick structures outside the park, especially from the Dan Ryan. And I am not saying make damn appartment buildings. I neve even said that. I mentioned create retail space in those buildings. Shops, restaurants, etc. Have it seen from the highway with signage from this businesses kind of like what Miller Park has to promote TGIF.

Fireworks - Can be moved to RF instead of LF. The Indians at the Jake implode their firework show from the top deck of the LF parking lot. You think that's not a hazard with so many cars and people around there? Fireworks would be the least of my conern.

Player's Parking Lot - You can build an underground lot for them at the same location if security is a concern.

Law11
10-20-2009, 01:06 PM
And a mural just doesn't cut it, IMO, I want to do a full blown museum. Anyone who has ever been to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway knows what I'm talking about. It would not have to be as large as IMS, but it could certainly have the same feel.

The Ballpark at Arlington has a great museum . Like 3 floors of baseball history not even Ranger stuff just Baseball memories.

ewokpelts
10-20-2009, 01:18 PM
Other than some normal wear and tear updating I think the park is in amazing shape. It even looks great from the outside.

I'd like a gift shop open year round as an alternative to grandstand.gift shop is open year round, but you haveto go through gate 4 to get in.

Luke
10-20-2009, 02:57 PM
Yeah, rusted out advertisement boards and light towers is pretty damn impressive to see from the Dan Ryan:rolleyes:

Part of what makes Miller Park so damn impressive from the highway is the brick exterior of the building. I want to see brick structures outside the park, especially from the Dan Ryan. And I am not saying make damn appartment buildings. I neve even said that. I mentioned create retail space in those buildings. Shops, restaurants, etc. Have it seen from the highway with signage from this businesses kind of like what Miller Park has to promote TGIF.

Fireworks - Can be moved to RF instead of LF. The Indians at the Jake implode their firework show from the top deck of the LF parking lot. You think that's not a hazard with so many cars and people around there? Fireworks would be the least of my conern.

Player's Parking Lot - You can build an underground lot for them at the same location if security is a concern.

You want to offset the cost of an underground parking lot, a multistory retail development, the relocation of the fireworks scaffold and the loss of income from the billboards with the money taken in from an 81 day a year restaurant?

DumpJerry
10-20-2009, 03:38 PM
Yeah, rusted out advertisement boards and light towers is pretty damn impressive to see from the Dan Ryan:rolleyes:

Part of what makes Miller Park so damn impressive from the highway is the brick exterior of the building. I want to see brick structures outside the park, especially from the Dan Ryan. And I am not saying make damn appartment buildings. I neve even said that. I mentioned create retail space in those buildings. Shops, restaurants, etc. Have it seen from the highway with signage from this businesses kind of like what Miller Park has to promote TGIF.

Fireworks - Can be moved to RF instead of LF. The Indians at the Jake implode their firework show from the top deck of the LF parking lot. You think that's not a hazard with so many cars and people around there? Fireworks would be the least of my conern.

Player's Parking Lot - You can build an underground lot for them at the same location if security is a concern.
Maybe we're talking about two different ballparks. What "rusted out" ad boards are you talking about? In fact there is no advertising visible from the Dan Ryan. Ever been to Comiskey?

Move the fireworks to RF? What about the 5,000 or so cars that park there? Where will they move? The shoulder of the Dan Ryan?

Underground players parking lot? With all these costs you're throwing around while getting rid of an entire fan parking lot and non-existent "rusted out" ads, how do you propose paying for all this?

ewokpelts
10-20-2009, 04:24 PM
My source old me that retail on 35th is the new POTENTIAL goal of cell rennovations.

Brian26
10-20-2009, 07:41 PM
Retail might happen someday around the Cell, but I wouldn't expect it anytime soon based on what's going on in the economy right now. The housing market has contributed to the worst economic crash since '29, and the commercial real estate market is getting ready to crash hard.

There are vacant storefronts in downtown Chicago. There's no reason to open up stores on 35th Street next to the park when they will only see business a few hours a day for half the baseball season.

LoveYourSuit
10-20-2009, 11:04 PM
Retail might happen someday around the Cell, but I wouldn't expect it anytime soon based on what's going on in the economy right now. The housing market has contributed to the worst economic crash since '29, and the commercial real estate market is getting ready to crash hard.

There are vacant storefronts in downtown Chicago. There's no reason to open up stores on 35th Street next to the park when they will only see business a few hours a day for half the baseball season.


During hard economic times, eating and drinking is something that thrives.

I don't see how a few food chains/bars would be a bad economic move for a business around the ballpark.

Year round establishments is what is needed there. A TGIF type joint like what's found at Miller ParK would do fine around the ballpark.

DumpJerry
10-21-2009, 06:47 AM
During hard economic times, eating and drinking is something that thrives.

I don't see how a few food chains/bars would be a bad economic move for a business around the ballpark.

Year round establishments is what is needed there. A TGIF type joint like what's found at Miller ParK would do fine around the ballpark.
Tell that to all the restaurant owners and employees who went under during the last 18 months because people can't afford to eat out any more. Yeah, people need to eat and drink, but they are doing it from Aldi now.

ewokpelts
10-21-2009, 07:56 AM
Dont get your hope sup for a massive surge in retail stores, bars, adn restaurants. the space is limited, unless you gut the sox offices on the ground level or eat parkign lot space.

And do you really want a tgifriday's at the park?

I expect a us cellular(cell phone) store on 35th, maybe a bar/grill, and a ground level sox store.

dickallen15
10-21-2009, 08:24 AM
During hard economic times, eating and drinking is something that thrives.

I don't see how a few food chains/bars would be a bad economic move for a business around the ballpark.

Year round establishments is what is needed there. A TGIF type joint like what's found at Miller ParK would do fine around the ballpark.

Have you been to restaurants lately? Unless your name is Rick Bayless, I can't see how thriving made it into your quote. Almost every place has deals.

Red Barchetta
10-21-2009, 08:25 AM
Dont get your hope sup for a massive surge in retail stores, bars, adn restaurants. the space is limited, unless you gut the sox offices on the ground level or eat parkign lot space.

And do you really want a tgifriday's at the park?

I expect a us cellular(cell phone) store on 35th, maybe a bar/grill, and a ground level sox store.

I had read earlier that one of the ideas was to move the SOX administrative offices off-site in order to free up space within the structure of the park to move the ramps inside. I always said that US Cellular is a nice looking ballpark. Too bad you can't see it with all the outdoor ramps covering the facade.

I'm sure this would cost some serious $$$, however I know the ISA has funds budgeted each year and depending on how much funding they receive from companies buying into the neighborhood build out could determine whether this gets done or not.

Interesting options considering the ballpark is closing in on its 20th birthday! I can't believe it's that "old" already!

ewokpelts
10-21-2009, 08:49 AM
I had read earlier that one of the ideas was to move the SOX administrative offices off-site in order to free up space within the structure of the park to move the ramps inside. I always said that US Cellular is a nice looking ballpark. Too bad you can't see it with all the outdoor ramps covering the facade.

I'm sure this would cost some serious $$$, however I know the ISA has funds budgeted each year and depending on how much funding they receive from companies buying into the neighborhood build out could determine whether this gets done or not.

Interesting options considering the ballpark is closing in on its 20th birthday! I can't believe it's that "old" already!the "relocating offices to an off site building" idea died when they rennovated the sox offices in the 2003/2004 offseason. I met with my ticket rep in the press box, which had been converted to temporary office space that winter.

Luke
10-21-2009, 09:59 AM
During hard economic times, eating and drinking is something that thrives.

I don't see how a few food chains/bars would be a bad economic move for a business around the ballpark.

Year round establishments is what is needed there. A TGIF type joint like what's found at Miller ParK would do fine around the ballpark.

Restaurants are usually neck and neck with small construction companies for having the highest failure rates of any business. Even chain restaurants operate with razor thin margins. It's always a riskier than average business venture, even in a great economy.

What's found at Miller Park isn't a year round restaurant, it's built into the stadium and only operates on game days. What you're talking about are stand alone restaurants that have to year-round rent even though they only see substantial foot traffic 81 (or hopefully slightly more) days a year.

I can't believe we've gotten this far into the thread without mentioning it...TGI Fridays sucks.

ewokpelts
10-21-2009, 10:52 AM
Restaurants are usually neck and neck with small construction companies for having the highest failure rates of any business. Even chain restaurants operate with razor thin margins. It's always a riskier than average business venture, even in a great economy.

What's found at Miller Park isn't a year round restaurant, it's built into the stadium and only operates on game days. What you're talking about are stand alone restaurants that have to year-round rent even though they only see substantial foot traffic 81 (or hopefully slightly more) days a year.

I can't believe we've gotten this far into the thread without mentioning it...TGI Fridays sucks.Front Row Friday's @ Miller Park is open 364 days a year.

Luke
10-21-2009, 11:12 AM
Front Row Friday's @ Miller Park is open 364 days a year.


Oops, that's correct. I still stand by Friday's sucking.

LoveYourSuit
10-21-2009, 04:52 PM
Oops, that's correct. I still stand by Friday's sucking.


I don't care about TGIF too much either, just brougt them up as an example because of it being at Miller Park.

doublem23
10-21-2009, 05:40 PM
Oops, that's correct. I still stand by Friday's sucking.

You could pretty much insert any chain restaurant's name there and this post would still be correct.

parlaycard
10-25-2009, 07:54 AM
I don't see how a few food chains/bars would be a bad economic move for a business around the ballpark.

.

And who is going to eat at these food chains and bars this time of year?

Ill tell you who, no one.

Would it be nice to have those ammenities during the season? Of course, but no corporation is going to gamble (and lose) that kind of money right now with this economy.

No one driving home from work to their home on 87th and Wallace is going to drive by the new TGI Fridays on 35th and stop off for a few beers and maybe some dinner.

The only people who would utilize restraunts would be people on game days.

Unfortunately all the good ideas are great when other peoples money is involved.

Lundind1
10-25-2009, 07:59 AM
And who is going to eat at these food chains and bars this time of year?

Ill tell you who, no one.

WPuild it be nice to have those ammenities during the season? Of course, but no corporation is going to gamble (and lose) that kind of money right now with this economy.

No one driving home from work to their home on 87th and Wallace is going to drive by the new TGI Fridays on 35th and stop off for a few beers and maybe some dinner.

The only people who would utilize restraunts would be people on game days.

Unfortunately all the good ideas are great when other peoples money is involved.

I live in the neighborhood and would eat there all the time. We don't have very many options and this would be a great one.

parlaycard
10-25-2009, 10:15 AM
I live in the neighborhood and would eat there all the time. We don't have very many options and this would be a great one.


you might be the only one eating there

not too profitable

skobabe8
10-25-2009, 10:17 AM
I live in the neighborhood and would eat there all the time. We don't have very many options and this would be a great one.

We live a little further north, but I would go there alot too. Just thinking about eating at the Fridays at Miller Park and the Curlys Restaurant in Lambeau, I would love to have an excuse to drive to the ballpark in the off-season to grab a bite.

dickallen15
10-25-2009, 11:11 AM
We live a little further north, but I would go there alot too. Just thinking about eating at the Fridays at Miller Park and the Curlys Restaurant in Lambeau, I would love to have an excuse to drive to the ballpark in the off-season to grab a bite.

How often do you hit the Friday's just of Mich. Ave? I really don't think fans who think they would go there all the time in the offseason would really follow through in reality. You may go there once or twice, but when you see its really just going to a restaurant like any other restaurant it just happens to be at or in USCF where nothing else is going on, the novelty would wear off quickly. I'm not calling you out or anything, but I just don't see people driving from far away, dealing with traffic, going to a Friday's or whatever chain where the prices will obviously be inflated to have a worse meal than they would have had at hundreds of places they passed by on their way there, just so they can hang out and see an empty ballpark with snow covering it. Considering most White Sox fans live at least 20 miles from the park, the proposal really wouldn't make much sense to an operator. Look at how much turnover there is by Wrigley every year, and go to the Cubby Bear, Murphy's or Harry Caray's on a Wed. night in December. They are ghost towns, and there are a lot more people living within 2 miles of Wrigley than 2 miles of USCF. Like was posted before, game days, fine, there will always be a crowd as long as they have a liquor license. Non game days, nada.

DumpJerry
10-25-2009, 12:50 PM
How often do you hit the Friday's just of Mich. Ave? I really don't think fans who think they would go there all the time in the offseason would really follow through in reality. You may go there once or twice, but when you see its really just going to a restaurant like any other restaurant it just happens to be at or in USCF where nothing else is going on, the novelty would wear off quickly. I'm not calling you out or anything, but I just don't see people driving from far away, dealing with traffic, going to a Friday's or whatever chain where the prices will obviously be inflated to have a worse meal than they would have had at hundreds of places they passed by on their way there, just so they can hang out and see an empty ballpark with snow covering it. Considering most White Sox fans live at least 20 miles from the park, the proposal really wouldn't make much sense to an operator. Look at how much turnover there is by Wrigley every year, and go to the Cubby Bear, Murphy's or Harry Caray's on a Wed. night in December. They are ghost towns, and there are a lot more people living within 2 miles of Wrigley than 2 miles of USCF. Like was posted before, game days, fine, there will always be a crowd as long as they have a liquor license. Non game days, nada.
Exactly. If those who say they will go there with a high degree of frequency actually did it, this means that they have incomes that can support regular meals at Charlie Trotter's. Eating out that much gets very expensive. Given the low profit margins restaurants operate with, even in good times, a half full TGIFridays every night cannot survive.

By the way, for those of you who need to eat in order to look at an empty, snow covered Comiskey Park, there is the new place at 31st and Princeton (Rocky's, I think the name is) that opened in September. Support local business!!!!

ewokpelts
10-25-2009, 02:03 PM
Biggest need for the sox really is a retail store that you dont need to go through security to shop in.

The 100 level shop is nice, but If all I really want to do is browwe, or check out something I saw online, it's pretty much a waste of my time, as well as the sox staffer who has to open the store for me for a private shopping experience. I end up going to grandstand to do that.

If all they put in that empty space at 320 w. 35th street is a retail store, I'd be a happy camper.


Gene

p.s. back in 2005(!!!!!1!!!), I was at the park the day they clinched the central. Went to the front desk and inquired about division champ gear, assuming the team store had soem in stock. They told me to go to grandstand as they weren't going to have any until the playoffs. If they had a separate store, those items most likely would hav ebeen in stock.

skobabe8
10-25-2009, 02:20 PM
How often do you hit the Friday's just of Mich. Ave? I really don't think fans who think they would go there all the time in the offseason would really follow through in reality. You may go there once or twice, but when you see its really just going to a restaurant like any other restaurant it just happens to be at or in USCF where nothing else is going on, the novelty would wear off quickly. I'm not calling you out or anything, but I just don't see people driving from far away, dealing with traffic, going to a Friday's or whatever chain where the prices will obviously be inflated to have a worse meal than they would have had at hundreds of places they passed by on their way there, just so they can hang out and see an empty ballpark with snow covering it. Considering most White Sox fans live at least 20 miles from the park, the proposal really wouldn't make much sense to an operator. Look at how much turnover there is by Wrigley every year, and go to the Cubby Bear, Murphy's or Harry Caray's on a Wed. night in December. They are ghost towns, and there are a lot more people living within 2 miles of Wrigley than 2 miles of USCF. Like was posted before, game days, fine, there will always be a crowd as long as they have a liquor license. Non game days, nada.

I don't know which Fridays youre even talking about. I'm just speaking for myself in saying that during the off season I would go to any restaurant connected to USCF to get a small baseball fix.

tony1972
10-25-2009, 04:59 PM
I don't know which Fridays youre even talking about. I'm just speaking for myself in saying that during the off season I would go to any restaurant connected to USCF to get a small baseball fix.


I know what you mean. On days I drive to work..I take the Dan Ryan..and sometimes driving home after work I'll take a detour off on 35th just to drive by the ballpark for a small taste of summer during a long and dreary winter. If there was a year round place to stop there and eat or maybe have a drink - I know I would definitely go once or twice during the winter.

TomBradley72
10-25-2009, 06:13 PM
Oops, that's correct. I still stand by Friday's sucking.

I've gone to a few group outings with friend where we reserved tables over the left field wall....it was a great time and a great way to see a game.

roylestillman
10-25-2009, 06:53 PM
First all I want is something, anything, that is located on USCF grounds that serves beer and food where I can meet up with people before the game without going through the turnstyles. Often I have the tickets or friends have the tickets and we're meeting up. McCuddy's served this purpose in the old days. It also allows a place to stay during rain delays. Any chance that it could also be open more than 45 minutes after the game?

Speaking of which, it amazes me that the gift shop located in center field is locked up tight by the time the game ends, Isn't this when it would be likely that people might buy souvenirs so they wouldn't have to worry about them during the game?

Lundind1
10-25-2009, 06:55 PM
you might be the only one eating there

not too profitable

Fine, I guess that I would the only one.

I guess that I will just have to grill my own hot dogs with onions here for that little taste of summer I like when it is cold and crappy in the winter.

The only thing is, one of contacts that I have at the Sox says that they have the stadium club booked up a ton in the winter and they turn the lights on a lot. Guess people don't want to go there at all except for games.

Maybe we should have the WSI christmas gathering in the stadium club this year. That would put this notion to bed....who the heck am I kidding!?!?! (But seriously, we should have it there....Insert new thread here)

I think that it would be a great draw and a better alternative to having to pay to rent out the SC, thats all.

Brian26
10-25-2009, 06:59 PM
The only thing is, one of contacts that I have at the Sox says that they have the stadium club booked up a ton in the winter and they turn the lights on a lot. Guess people don't want to go there at all except for games.

Opening the Stadium Club up for a few hours for a private event is a lot different than trying to run a profitable full-time restaurant.

DumpJerry
10-25-2009, 10:17 PM
The only thing is, one of contacts that I have at the Sox says that they have the stadium club booked up a ton in the winter and they turn the lights on a lot. Guess people don't want to go there at all except for games.

Maybe we should have the WSI christmas gathering in the stadium club this year. That would put this notion to bed....who the heck am I kidding!?!?! (But seriously, we should have it there....Insert new thread here)
You're talking about serious scratch there, my friend. The Stadium Club is used for business functions, wedding receptions, etc. It would cost some serious money to book it.

MarkZ35
10-25-2009, 10:28 PM
The only thing is, one of contacts that I have at the Sox says that they have the stadium club booked up a ton in the winter and they turn the lights on a lot. Guess people don't want to go there at all except for games.
I belive they have a lot of retirement, anniversaries, etc. there. I know at least 5 people that have had parties there in the winter.

Jpgr91
10-26-2009, 04:34 AM
A restaurant near USCF is not going to happen and here is why...

Usually places like Friday's etc generate about a $15 - $18 "average check", that is the total number of guests (covers) purchasing food and beverage / total revenues. Given the transient nature of guests at baseball games, I would venture to guess the average check would be closer to $12.

Lets assume that the possible restaurant wants to generate 2mil a year in revenue. Lets also assume there are 82 baseball games and 281 non baseball days (Closed Christmas and NY Day). Maybe this place becomes one of the busiest restaurants in Chicago and averages 1,000 guests on game days.

82,000 covers * $12 av ck game day= $984,000
$1,016,000/$15 non game day av check = 67,773 covers
67,773 covers / 281 days = 241 Covers Per Day

These numbers are obviously not scientific and they are probably way too aggressive. Even given this aggressive estimation, does anyone honestly think that this place could average 241 guests on non game days? Not likely.

DumpJerry
10-26-2009, 06:53 AM
Chains like TGIFridays, Chili's, etc. are located in areas which are people magnets 365 days a year. This is why you see them in shopping malls, commerical areas, etc. The area around Comiskey does not fit this description. This is why you're better off with a locally owned place (like aforementioned place at 31st and Princeton). It is easier to develop loyalty as a customer to a place that is not a cookie cutter restaurant with nothing unique about it.

Luke
10-26-2009, 10:20 AM
I've gone to a few group outings with friend where we reserved tables over the left field wall....it was a great time and a great way to see a game.

I'm not talking about the atmosphere and the good time you had with friends. I'm talking about their "food."

skobabe8
10-26-2009, 10:26 AM
Chains like TGIFridays, Chili's, etc. are located in areas which are people magnets 365 days a year. This is why you see them in shopping malls, commerical areas, etc. The area around Comiskey does not fit this description. This is why you're better off with a locally owned place (like aforementioned place at 31st and Princeton). It is easier to develop loyalty as a customer to a place that is not a cookie cutter restaurant with nothing unique about it.

I'll take a Polo Cafe over any chain. I would just like something.

ewokpelts
10-26-2009, 11:34 AM
First all I want is something, anything, that is located on USCF grounds that serves beer and food where I can meet up with people before the game without going through the turnstyles. Often I have the tickets or friends have the tickets and we're meeting up. McCuddy's served this purpose in the old days. It also allows a place to stay during rain delays. Any chance that it could also be open more than 45 minutes after the game?

Speaking of which, it amazes me that the gift shop located in center field is locked up tight by the time the game ends, Isn't this when it would be likely that people might buy souvenirs so they wouldn't have to worry about them during the game?all the gift shops close pretty early. i wonder why. you'd think the sox want to squeeze cash out of us.

ewokpelts
10-26-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't know which Fridays youre even talking about. I'm just speaking for myself in saying that during the off season I would go to any restaurant connected to USCF to get a small baseball fix.168 e. erie.

ewokpelts
10-26-2009, 11:36 AM
Opening the Stadium Club up for a few hours for a private event is a lot different than trying to run a profitable full-time restaurant.agreed. offseason, the stadium club is more like any other banquet hall. opened as needed.

ewokpelts
10-26-2009, 11:38 AM
Chains like TGIFridays, Chili's, etc. are located in areas which are people magnets 365 days a year. This is why you see them in shopping malls, commerical areas, etc. The area around Comiskey does not fit this description. This is why you're better off with a locally owned place (like aforementioned place at 31st and Princeton). It is easier to develop loyalty as a customer to a place that is not a cookie cutter restaurant with nothing unique about it.these types of places exist in stadiums, but the non-game sdays are dead. i was up in milwaukee when the brewers were on the road and ate at the front row fridays. there were probably 10 patrons in there on a sunday afternoon.

skobabe8
10-26-2009, 07:12 PM
168 e. erie.

OK. I've never been there.

TomBradley72
10-27-2009, 12:49 PM
I'm not talking about the atmosphere and the good time you had with friends. I'm talking about their "food."

Well, most of the concessions at the Cell seem to be going in a negative direction from my recent experience...the food on the Patio and in the Bullpen Sports bar is pretty mediocre as are most of the concession stands now....as far as quality and variety of food goes...White Sox park is living off of a reputation more than reality.

The Stadium Club/Jim Beam Club/Club Seats/Club Level options are a different story for obvious reasons.

dickallen15
10-27-2009, 01:22 PM
Well, most of the concessions at the Cell seem to be going in a negative direction from my recent experience...the food on the Patio and in the Bullpen Sports bar is pretty mediocre as are most of the concession stands now....as far as quality and variety of food goes...White Sox park is living off of a reputation more than reality.

The Stadium Club/Jim Beam Club/Club Seats/Club Level options are a different story for obvious reasons.

I totally agree. The grilled hot dog/sausage stands haven't served fresh buns in about 4 years. One thing on the Club level, if you order a beer at the beginning of the game, expect it to be very flat. Its fine about the 3rd inning. That's why I like the plastic bottles. I wish they would serve those in seats on the club level.

Luke
10-27-2009, 02:01 PM
I totally agree. The grilled hot dog/sausage stands haven't served fresh buns in about 4 years. One thing on the Club level, if you order a beer at the beginning of the game, expect it to be very flat. Its fine about the 3rd inning. That's why I like the plastic bottles. I wish they would serve those in seats on the club level.

A Chili's, Friday's, Applebee's, Ruby Tuesday's just adds a greater variety of mediocre (at best) food.

Are we still talking about a stand alone establishment? If we are, it doesn't really solve the problem with flat beer anyway, unless you would rather watch the game from the bar instead of your seat.

If some developer wants to come into the area and get the financing for something like this, great. I wish him or her luck and hope it thrives. I don't think it's the type of thing White Sox money should be spent developing though.

ewokpelts
10-27-2009, 02:08 PM
Well, most of the concessions at the Cell seem to be going in a negative direction from my recent experience...the food on the Patio and in the Bullpen Sports bar is pretty mediocre as are most of the concession stands now....as far as quality and variety of food goes...White Sox park is living off of a reputation more than reality.

The Stadium Club/Jim Beam Club/Club Seats/Club Level options are a different story for obvious reasons.sportservice has been downhill for a while. I'm ok with what the bertuccis offer in the patio/bullpen bar(espcially when i get thier offerings cheaper at the employee stand).

levy should handle the concessions on 100 and 500 levels.

ewokpelts
10-27-2009, 02:10 PM
A Chili's, Friday's, Applebee's, Ruby Tuesday's just adds a greater variety of mediocre (at best) food.

Are we still talking about a stand alone establishment? If we are, it doesn't really solve the problem with flat beer anyway, unless you would rather watch the game from the bar instead of your seat.

If some developer wants to come into the area and get the financing for something like this, great. I wish him or her luck and hope it thrives. I don't think it's the type of thing White Sox money should be spent developing though.anything put up on sox lots/property will probably have to be done with either the sox money or support.

Lundind1
10-28-2009, 08:11 PM
sportservice has been downhill for a while. I'm ok with what the bertuccis offer in the patio/bullpen bar(espcially when i get thier offerings cheaper at the employee stand).

levy should handle the concessions on 100 and 500 levels.

If you have been to Toyota Park, Levy handles all of their concessions. Even the normal concessions to them are head and shoulders above DNC.

LoveYourSuit
10-28-2009, 09:27 PM
Chains like TGIFridays, Chili's, etc. are located in areas which are people magnets 365 days a year. This is why you see them in shopping malls, commerical areas, etc. The area around Comiskey does not fit this description. This is why you're better off with a locally owned place (like aforementioned place at 31st and Princeton). It is easier to develop loyalty as a customer to a place that is not a cookie cutter restaurant with nothing unique about it.

Miller Park / TGIF* has been open for 10 years now and I have not heard any rumors of it going bankrupt. And you think US Cellular field is a ghost town? Miller Park is in the middle of nothing.

Now how can it survive there and not the Cell when the Cell has a growing residential market and a big school campus (IIT) nearby?

* yes "Friday's Sucks." Insert any major food chain you wish.

chisoxfanatic
10-28-2009, 09:31 PM
I'd be happy if they put an East Side Mario's there and opened up Tim Hortons stands in the ballpark.

LoveYourSuit
10-28-2009, 09:34 PM
anything put up on sox lots/property will probably have to be done with either the sox money or support.

IFSA owns the park and the lots if If I am not mistaken. As long as they do not mess with the playing surface of the ballpark, they can choose to do whatever they wish on the outside without the consent of the White Sox.

That was my understanding from the past.

DSpivack
10-28-2009, 09:35 PM
Miller Park / TGIF* has been open for 10 years now and I have not heard any rumors of it going bankrupt. And you think US Cellular field is a ghost town? Miller Park is in the middle of nothing.

Now how can it survive there and not the Cell when the Cell has a growing residential market and a big school campus (IIT) nearby?

* yes "Friday's Sucks." Insert any major food chain you wish.

Is that Friday's open on non-game days?

chisoxfanatic
10-28-2009, 09:36 PM
Is that Friday's open on non-game days?
Yes.

dickallen15
10-28-2009, 09:40 PM
IFSA owns the park and the lots if If I am not mistaken. As long as they do not mess with the playing surface of the ballpark, they can choose to do whatever they wish on the outside without the consent of the White Sox.

That was my understanding from the past.

I think Reinsdorf owns the lots. I do know for a fact there were blueprints for construction of at least 2 maybe 3 bar/restaurants in the parking lots that Jerry decided against 4 or 5 years ago.

DumpJerry
10-28-2009, 09:42 PM
IFSA owns the park and the lots if If I am not mistaken. As long as they do not mess with the playing surface of the ballpark, they can choose to do whatever they wish on the outside without the consent of the White Sox.

That was my understanding from the past.
Wrong.

The ISFA owns the ballpark and the parking lots. They lease the ballpark and the parking lots to the White Sox. The lease gives the Sox exclusive control over the use of the ballpark and parking lots. The ISFA has no say whatsoever in the operation of the ballpark or parking lots. All the ISFA can do is collect rent.

How do I know this? A lawyer I know was a Chicago cop and lawyer. One day his bosses came to him and handed the lease the ISFA has with the Sox. The police wanted to know if it was ok if people drank booze in the parking lots. After reviewing the lease, he told them that when it comes to the parking lots, the White Sox have the only say, therefore, if the Sox say people can drink booze in the parking lots, then it is legal because it is considered private property. This is why you cannot take your open beer across the street from one parking lot to another-you are leaving the lot and walking on the city sidewalk and crossing the city street.

Those of you who enjoy tailgating can thank this guy.

Jpgr91
10-28-2009, 10:07 PM
Miller Park / TGIF* has been open for 10 years now and I have not heard any rumors of it going bankrupt. And you think US Cellular field is a ghost town? Miller Park is in the middle of nothing.

Now how can it survive there and not the Cell when the Cell has a growing residential market and a big school campus (IIT) nearby?

* yes "Friday's Sucks." Insert any major food chain you wish.

The White Sox have large opportunity cost to consider when deciding how to utilize the space. The Brewers are not displacing anything else by having Friday's open all year round, hence no opportunity cost. The Sox would have to weigh the profitability of a restaurant vrs the profitability of another outlet. As I mentioned previously, it would be very difficult for a restaurant to meet acceptable profitability.

LoveYourSuit
10-28-2009, 10:10 PM
Wrong.

The ISFA owns the ballpark and the parking lots. They lease the ballpark and the parking lots to the White Sox. The lease gives the Sox exclusive control over the use of the ballpark and parking lots. The ISFA has no say whatsoever in the operation of the ballpark or parking lots. All the ISFA can do is collect rent.

How do I know this? A lawyer I know was a Chicago cop and lawyer. One day his bosses came to him and handed the lease the ISFA has with the Sox. The police wanted to know if it was ok if people drank booze in the parking lots. After reviewing the lease, he told them that when it comes to the parking lots, the White Sox have the only say, therefore, if the Sox say people can drink booze in the parking lots, then it is legal because it is considered private property. This is why you cannot take your open beer across the street from one parking lot to another-you are leaving the lot and walking on the city sidewalk and crossing the city street.

Those of you who enjoy tailgating can thank this guy.

OK.

My understanding was that improvements and maintenance was the responsibility of ISFA. But I guess the Sox have full say on what goes on outside also.

Surprising the Sox would defend their tailgate fans when all these years Reinsdorf has been acused of wanting the fans to spend all their money in consumption inside of the park instead of outside (where the team makes no money). This also being the myth behind no establishments being opened around the park, all to protect Reinsdorf's pockets.

LoveYourSuit
10-28-2009, 10:16 PM
The White Sox have large opportunity cost to consider when deciding how to utilize the space. The Brewers are not displacing anything else by having Friday's open all year round, hence no opportunity cost. The Sox would have to weigh the profitability of a restaurant vrs the profitability of another outlet. As I mentioned previously, it would be very difficult for a restaurant to meet acceptable profitability.


Can I ask how the displacement of an un-used ramp on the 100 level of the LF corner hurts profitability?


This is basically what you would be displacing.

DumpJerry
10-28-2009, 10:23 PM
The White Sox have large opportunity cost to consider when deciding how to utilize the space. The Brewers are not displacing anything else by having Friday's open all year round, hence no opportunity cost. The Sox would have to weigh the profitability of a restaurant vrs the profitability of another outlet. As I mentioned previously, it would be very difficult for a restaurant to meet acceptable profitability.


The Sox would not own the restaurant, so its profit margin would not be a concern to the team. However, it would cut into concession sales.

OK.

My understanding was that improvements and maintenance was the responsibility of ISFA. But I guess the Sox have full say on what goes on outside also.

Surprising the Sox would defend their tailgate fans when all these years Reinsdorf has been acused of wanting the fans to spend all their money in consumption inside of the park instead of outside (where the team makes no money). This also being the myth behind no establishments being opened around the park, all to protect Reinsdorf's pockets.

The Sox allow tailgating, they don't defend it (there is nothing to defend it from). They allow it because it is part of the atmosphere of going to a game. Since you are not allowed to tailgate once the game starts, people will still buy beers inside.

Can I ask how the displacement of an un-used ramp on the 100 level of the LF corner hurts profitability?


This is basically what you would be displacing.
What ramp in LF is not used? The one I usually walk down on my way out of the park? It gets a lot of use. Where would a restaurant fit in there given the power plant is right there at the exit and would millions to move to......well, there is not other place that has enough room to put the power plant.

twentywontowin
10-28-2009, 10:41 PM
The grilled hot dog/sausage stands haven't served fresh buns in about 4 years.

With the volume they have on buns there, they should be nothing more than a day old at the most, which is acceptable for bread.

Gonnella is their vendor for hot dog buns. There is no reason their buns should be stale unless the Sox are hoarding them to save money.

Jpgr91
10-28-2009, 11:20 PM
Can I ask how the displacement of an un-used ramp on the 100 level of the LF corner hurts profitability?


This is basically what you would be displacing.

You would be displacing another outlet, such as a souvenir shop that is open all year round.

The Sox would not own the restaurant, so its profit margin would not be a concern to the team. However, it would cut into concession sales.

Most restaurants in these circumstances do not have the traditional landlord / lessee agreement. Usually the tenant (restaurant) pays a low rent and agrees to pay a percentage of revenue to the owner of the space. The % usually is around 3% - 5% of total revenues.

ewokpelts
10-29-2009, 12:48 PM
Miller Park / TGIF* has been open for 10 years now and I have not heard any rumors of it going bankrupt. And you think US Cellular field is a ghost town? Miller Park is in the middle of nothing.

Now how can it survive there and not the Cell when the Cell has a growing residential market and a big school campus (IIT) nearby?

* yes "Friday's Sucks." Insert any major food chain you wish.they make thier money from april-october with $100 tables that overlook the park

ewokpelts
10-29-2009, 12:49 PM
IFSA owns the park and the lots if If I am not mistaken. As long as they do not mess with the playing surface of the ballpark, they can choose to do whatever they wish on the outside without the consent of the White Sox.

That was my understanding from the past.sox control the entire campus

SaltyPretzel
10-30-2009, 01:33 PM
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/white.sox.restaurant.2.1281752.html

ewokpelts
10-30-2009, 01:52 PM
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/white.sox.restaurant.2.1281752.htmlthis confirms what i've posted before. it'll take time.

skobabe8
10-30-2009, 06:42 PM
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/white.sox.restaurant.2.1281752.html

Sweet. Funding may hold this back, but at least there are plans.

roylestillman
10-31-2009, 08:54 AM
And from the Sun-Times:

http://www.suntimes.com/business/1856919,CST-NWS-soxpark31.article

Sounds like the ex-gov was not too pleased with people talking about this. I wonder where WBBM got the idea to ask about it?

JNS
10-31-2009, 12:17 PM
This is a silly argument. The people who are saying that one venue will take profit away from another one don't understand that this isn't a zero-sum prop. Creating a place where PEOPLE WANT TO GATHER, and have a choice makes dough for everyone. Up in Lakeview - oh yeah, I mean Wrigleyville - does anyone see one bar full and the one next door empty? Of course not! A microcosm is inside the ballpark on the 100 level. Is there a huge line at one stand and none at the other? Of course not. Both will have more or less equal lines if they are selling pretty much the same thing. All that adding some eating and drinking establishments to 35th street will do is DRAW MORE PEOPLE TO THE AREA. If anything, EVERYONE WILL MAKE MORE MONEY. This was the original (and huge) flaw in the original "suburban" (as JR himself put it recently) concept that the new ballpark was based on - a venue in the middle of nowhere surrounded by parking lots. Of course it was a disaster.

Another good example is Lakeview, I mean Wrigleyville. In 1981, right before the Trib bought the Killer Cubbies was the area around Clark and Addison a destination for people with dough? NO! You had the Metro up Clark, and a few bars - Rays Bleachers, The Cubbie Bear, and some reggae joints. Actually Lakeview in those days was a fairly dodgy hood, with lots of Latin Kings activity. The guys at the Tribune didn't know how to make the Cubs a decent team, but they knew how to make money, and by marketing the "Wrigley Field experience" and making it a destination they knew that the concept of "if you build it they will come" would work. And it did. Multiple venues means lots of choices and a "buzz" that makes folks want to be there.

And with the changes in Bridgeport (higher per capita income) and the destruction of the projects across the Ryan, the now fallow 35th street strip could become something similar. And EVERYONE MAKES MONEY. Folks will eat before or after the games - and more folks wiill go to the games. Or just hang out outside the place to be part of the "experience" as they do outside Wrigley. The idea that one place takes a limited amount of available money away from another is just false, and the many entertainment strips in Chicago - most of which didn't exist 30 years ago - prove this. Is the Oxford Pub on Lincoln Avenue hurt by the existence of John Barlycorn or Kingston Mines in the same strip? No - it helps all of them. The right concept and marketing will increase the available pot of dough exponentially. And everyone wins.

My guess is that the only thing holding back the plans is the general state of the economy and the tight money - the banks aren't lending a lot of money right now, and only in the last month or so do the numbers indicate that folks are beginning to spend.

Frater Perdurabo
10-31-2009, 12:33 PM
I hope they think big with this. For instance, I'd suggest restaurants that you can't find everywhere else (http://www.dickeys.com/index.aspx), themed bars that you can't find everywhere else (http://www.trinityhall.tv/), an entertainment-related businesses or two (http://www.daveandbusters.com/locations/default.aspx), a live music venue, movie theater (http://angelikafilmcenter.com/), a parking garage, and apartments and condos. The easy access to the Dan Ryan and the CTA Red and Green lines, the forthcoming access to the Metra Rock Island (and the ease with which a Metra Southwest Service station could be built as well) puts the Cell right in the middle of a huge potential entertainment zone.

ewokpelts
10-31-2009, 12:38 PM
This is a silly argument. The people who are saying that one venue will take profit away from another one don't understand that this isn't a zero-sum prop. Creating a place where PEOPLE WANT TO GATHER, and have a choice makes dough for everyone. Up in Lakeview - oh yeah, I mean Wrigleyville - does anyone see one bar full and the one next door empty? Of course not! A microcosm is inside the ballpark on the 100 level. Is there a huge line at one stand and none at the other? Of course not. Both will have more or less equal lines if they are selling pretty much the same thing. All that adding some eating and drinking establishments to 35th street will do is DRAW MORE PEOPLE TO THE AREA. If anything, EVERYONE WILL MAKE MORE MONEY. This was the original (and huge) flaw in the original "suburban" (as JR himself put it recently) concept that the new ballpark was based on - a venue in the middle of nowhere surrounded by parking lots. Of course it was a disaster.

Another good example is Lakeview, I mean Wrigleyville. In 1981, right before the Trib bought the Killer Cubbies was the area around Clark and Addison a destination for people with dough? NO! You had the Metro up Clark, and a few bars - Rays Bleachers, The Cubbie Bear, and some reggae joints. Actually Lakeview in those days was a fairly dodgy hood, with lots of Latin Kings activity. The guys at the Tribune didn't know how to make the Cubs a decent team, but they knew how to make money, and by marketing the "Wrigley Field experience" and making it a destination they knew that the concept of "if you build it they will come" would work. And it did. Multiple venues means lots of choices and a "buzz" that makes folks want to be there.

And with the changes in Bridgeport (higher per capita income) and the destruction of the projects across the Ryan, the now fallow 35th street strip could become something similar. And EVERYONE MAKES MONEY. Folks will eat before or after the games - and more folks wiill go to the games. Or just hang out outside the place to be part of the "experience" as they do outside Wrigley. The idea that one place takes a limited amount of available money away from another is just false, and the many entertainment strips in Chicago - most of which didn't exist 30 years ago - prove this. Is the Oxford Pub on Lincoln Avenue hurt by the existence of John Barlycorn or Kingston Mines in the same strip? No - it helps all of them. The right concept and marketing will increase the available pot of dough exponentially. And everyone wins.

My guess is that the only thing holding back the plans is the general state of the economy and the tight money - the banks aren't lending a lot of money right now, and only in the last month or so do the numbers indicate that folks are beginning to spend.or this venture will create additional obstacles thus forcing people to spend more time in traffic. instead of on thier way home.

seriosulsy, this is the sox. expect a gift shop and if we're lucky, maybe, just MAYBE, a concession stand outside gate 5.

ewokpelts
10-31-2009, 12:41 PM
Sox target audience is families. That means gift shops and parking spaces are more needed than bars.

Again, unless the sox bought that parcel on 39th and princeton, I doubt they'll canibalize parking to add a put put range or a friday's.

JNS
10-31-2009, 01:40 PM
Sox target audience is families. That means gift shops and parking spaces are more needed than bars.

Again, unless the sox bought that parcel on 39th and princeton, I doubt they'll canibalize parking to add a put put range or a friday's.

What is the basis for your writing that? Where did you hear it or see it? There is plenty of parking. And the way to avoid traffic congestion is to take PT. And what about PT? What about the opening of the new Rock Island station on 35th? It's true that they make a lot of dough from the parking, but if increased activity along 35th street means increased attendance and better TV ratings - and if any other venues in MLB or big-time sports generally can serve as models it does - they'll do it. AND THEY ALREADY HAVE A GIFT SHOP.

And this has nothing to do with what the Sox own - THEY DON'T OWN ANY OF IT. IT IS ALL OWNED BY THE ISFA. I agree with Perdurabo - it doesn't have to be the usual suburban mall operations. They can let the Levy organization - the outfit that runs the stadium club and the venues at the UC do some stuff. And there are plenty of others as well. This is a huge market - it ain't KC or Cincinnati.

roylestillman
10-31-2009, 01:51 PM
What is the basis for your writing that? Where did you hear it or see it? There is plenty of parking. And the way to avoid traffic congestion is to take PT. And what about PT? What about the opening of the new Rock Island station on 35th? It's true that they make a lot of dough from the parking, but if increased activity along 35th street means increased attendance and better TV ratings - and if any other venues in MLB or big-time sports generally can serve as models it does - they'll do it. AND THEY ALREADY HAVE A GIFT SHOP.

And this has nothing to do with what the Sox own - THEY DON'T OWN ANY OF IT. IT IS ALL OWNED BY THE ISFA. I agree with Perdurabo - it doesn't have to be the usual suburban mall operations. They can let the Levy organization - the outfit that runs the stadium club and the venues at the UC do some stuff. And there are plenty of others as well. This is a huge market - it ain't KC or Cincinnati.
And remember when the parking lots were built the park held 45,000+. With the uper deck's haircut it now holds about 40,000. That was one of the reasons that they could skip rebuilding one of those upper deck ramps at Gate 5.

A case could be made that giving fans a reason to stick around after a game may actually improve traffic flow out of the area.

JNS
10-31-2009, 02:22 PM
And remember when the parking lots were built the park held 45,000+. With the uper deck's haircut it now holds about 40,000. That was one of the reasons that they could skip rebuilding one of those upper deck ramps at Gate 5.

A case could be made that giving fans a reason to stick around after a game may actually improve traffic flow out of the area.

Excellent point.

And if I'm not mistaken, the whole idea is to get rid of the failed "suburban" (see KC) model. Again, that's a ballpark on a greenfield site surrounded by acres of parking. Ugh. What Eddie ad Jerry were thinking back in the late 80s when they designed the thing is a topic for another thread. JR has already owned up to the errors - better late than never.

Making the area a destination - something that is sorely needed on the South side this side of the Irish bars in Beverly - means that folks show up early and maybe stay late. And go there whether or not there is a baseball game on that particular date. I promise you that the area around Clark and Addison is packed with or without a Cubs game. OK, I very much doubt it would ever get to the level of Lakeview, but that's OK, as long as they do something.

Jpgr91
10-31-2009, 02:36 PM
This is a silly argument. The people who are saying that one venue will take profit away from another one don't understand that this isn't a zero-sum prop. Creating a place where PEOPLE WANT TO GATHER, and have a choice makes dough for everyone. Up in Lakeview - oh yeah, I mean Wrigleyville - does anyone see one bar full and the one next door empty? Of course not! A microcosm is inside the ballpark on the 100 level. Is there a huge line at one stand and none at the other? Of course not. Both will have more or less equal lines if they are selling pretty much the same thing. All that adding some eating and drinking establishments to 35th street will do is DRAW MORE PEOPLE TO THE AREA. If anything, EVERYONE WILL MAKE MORE MONEY. This was the original (and huge) flaw in the original "suburban" (as JR himself put it recently) concept that the new ballpark was based on - a venue in the middle of nowhere surrounded by parking lots. Of course it was a disaster.

Another good example is Lakeview, I mean Wrigleyville. In 1981, right before the Trib bought the Killer Cubbies was the area around Clark and Addison a destination for people with dough? NO! You had the Metro up Clark, and a few bars - Rays Bleachers, The Cubbie Bear, and some reggae joints. Actually Lakeview in those days was a fairly dodgy hood, with lots of Latin Kings activity. The guys at the Tribune didn't know how to make the Cubs a decent team, but they knew how to make money, and by marketing the "Wrigley Field experience" and making it a destination they knew that the concept of "if you build it they will come" would work. And it did. Multiple venues means lots of choices and a "buzz" that makes folks want to be there.

And with the changes in Bridgeport (higher per capita income) and the destruction of the projects across the Ryan, the now fallow 35th street strip could become something similar. And EVERYONE MAKES MONEY. Folks will eat before or after the games - and more folks wiill go to the games. Or just hang out outside the place to be part of the "experience" as they do outside Wrigley. The idea that one place takes a limited amount of available money away from another is just false, and the many entertainment strips in Chicago - most of which didn't exist 30 years ago - prove this. Is the Oxford Pub on Lincoln Avenue hurt by the existence of John Barlycorn or Kingston Mines in the same strip? No - it helps all of them. The right concept and marketing will increase the available pot of dough exponentially. And everyone wins.

My guess is that the only thing holding back the plans is the general state of the economy and the tight money - the banks aren't lending a lot of money right now, and only in the last month or so do the numbers indicate that folks are beginning to spend.

That does not really make any sense. The per capita income in Lakeview (Wrigley) is higher than the areas around USCF. The area around Wrigley is also more dense than the area around USCF, I would also venture to guess the average age is also lower in Lakeview. This all leads to a higher demand on the bars.

If this restuarant / bar idea was so great, how come nothing like this has happend before? How come the space sat vacant for the entire 2009 season? Bottom line is that there has NEVER been a sucsseful mid - large scale F&B operation in the area around USCF.

JNS
10-31-2009, 03:03 PM
That does not really make any sense. The per capita income in Lakeview (Wrigley) is higher than the areas around USCF. The area around Wrigley is also more dense than the area around USCF, I would also venture to guess the average age is also lower in Lakeview. This all leads to a higher demand on the bars.

If this restuarant / bar idea was so great, how come nothing like this has happend before? How come the space sat vacant for the entire 2009 season? Bottom line is that there has NEVER been a sucsseful mid - large scale F&B operation in the area around USCF.

BECAUSE THE OWNERS DIDN'T WANT IT. And it makes plenty of sense now. Did you read my previous posts? Doesn't look like it. As stated above, Jerry Rheinsdorf has admitted that the way they set it up in 1990 was a big mistake.

The per capita income in Lakeview in the early 80s was not very high - it was largely working class German and Latino. The gentrification of Lakeview occurred at the same time that the Trib was beginning to promote the Wrigley Field experience. Also, Bridgeport is getting yuppified in a hurry, even with the housing slump. No, it won't be as big as it is around Clark and Addison, but it can and will work. These aren't just rumors.

As for whether there was ever a "large scale F & B operation" in the area around the Cell, well, there used to be the Robert Taylor Homes right across the Ryan. Where are they now? Bridgeport indeed had a low per capita income - not that the Sox fan base has its HQ in Bridgeport - and that has been changing for about 6 or 7 years now - heading up. And back in the days of the old ballpark there were a couple of bars on 35th and a bunch of places on Halsted in close proximity to the park such as The Stockyard Inn and the Hickory Pit. But again, those were different times. Perhaps conditions weren't right in the past but they are now.

And again, unless you can somehow show otherwise, please remember that the area around Wrigley Field wasn't always the way it is now - it was very similar to Bridgeport in its income demographics. It also didn't host "large scale F & B operation." So sorry - it makes very good sense.

dickallen15
10-31-2009, 03:07 PM
BECAUSE THE OWNERS DIDN'T WANT IT. And it makes plenty of sense now. Did you read my previous posts? Doesn't look like it. As stated above, Jerry Rheinsdorf has admitted that the way they set it up in 1990 was a big mistake.

The per capita income in Lakeview in the early 80s was not very high - it was largely working class German and Latino. The gentrification of Lakeview occurred at the same time that the Trib was beginning to promote the Wrigley Field experience. Also, Bridgeport is getting yuppified in a hurry, even with the housing slump. No, it won't be as big as it is around Clark and Addison, but it can and will work. These aren't just rumors.

As for whether there was ever a "large scale F & B operation" in the area around the Cell, well, there used to be the Robert Taylor Homes right across the Ryan. Where are they now? Bridgeport indeed had a low per capita income - not that the Sox fan base has its HQ in Bridgeport - and that has been changing for about 6 or 7 years now - heading up. And back in the days of the old ballpark there were a couple of bars on 35th and a bunch of places on Halsted in close proximity to the park such as The Stockyard Inn and the Hickory Pit. But again, those were different times. Perhaps conditions weren't right in the past but they are now.

And again, unless you can somehow show otherwise, please remember that the area around Wrigley Field wasn't always the way it is now - it was very similar to Bridgeport in its income demographics. It also didn't host "large scale F & B operation." So sorry - it makes very good sense.

For an area that you say is always packed there sure is a lot of turnover taking place every year. Go on a Wednesday night in January and you will have a different opinion. Most of these places make their money 81 days a year. Its not as lucrative as you think and there are a lot more people living within 2 miles of Wrigley Field than live within 2 miles of USCF.

Why do you want the Sox to be like the Cubs anyway?

This is a good idea and will be great for those who attend games, but its not going to make Bridgeport anything like Wrigleyville. For one thing Bridgeport residents like it the way it is.

jmeneghini1433
10-31-2009, 03:13 PM
http://www.wbbm780.com/Retail--entertainment-center-planned-for-Sox-Park-/5561622

Jpgr91
10-31-2009, 03:17 PM
BECAUSE THE OWNERS DIDN'T WANT IT. And it makes plenty of sense now. Did you read my previous posts? Doesn't look like it. As stated above, Jerry Rheinsdorf has admitted that the way they set it up in 1990 was a big mistake.

The per capita income in Lakeview in the early 80s was not very high - it was largely working class German and Latino. The gentrification of Lakeview occurred at the same time that the Trib was beginning to promote the Wrigley Field experience. Also, Bridgeport is getting yuppified in a hurry, even with the housing slump. No, it won't be as big as it is around Clark and Addison, but it can and will work. These aren't just rumors.

As for whether there was ever a "large scale F & B operation" in the area around the Cell, well, there used to be the Robert Taylor Homes right across the Ryan. Where are they now? Bridgeport indeed had a low per capita income - not that the Sox fan base has its HQ in Bridgeport - and that has been changing for about 6 or 7 years now - heading up. And back in the days of the old ballpark there were a couple of bars on 35th and a bunch of places on Halsted in close proximity to the park such as The Stockyard Inn and the Hickory Pit. But again, those were different times. Perhaps conditions weren't right in the past but they are now.

And again, unless you can somehow show otherwise, please remember that the area around Wrigley Field wasn't always the way it is now - it was very similar to Bridgeport in its income demographics. It also didn't host "large scale F & B operation." So sorry - it makes very good sense.

I am referring to the current conditions and how they relate to the development of F&B operations. Of course the development around Wrigley coincided with gentrification. The areas that are seeing the most growth in restaurants / bars are Bucktown/Wicker Park, South Loop, and West Loop. The growth is tied into the changing socio economic conditions of the residents. The changes that are occurring in Bridgeport are happening at a significantly slower volume and pace compared to the "hot" neighborhoods. The area never has been able to support large scale F&B operations, and given everything that is going on right now I see no reason to see this trend changing.

JNS
10-31-2009, 03:28 PM
I am referring to the current conditions and how they relate to the development of F&B operations. Of course the development around Wrigley coincided with gentrification. The areas that are seeing the most growth in restaurants / bars are Bucktown/Wicker Park, South Loop, and West Loop. The growth is tied into the changing socio economic conditions of the residents. The changes that are occurring in Bridgeport are happening at a significantly slower volume and pace compared to the "hot" neighborhoods. The area never has been able to support large scale F&B operations, and given everything that is going on right now I see no reason to see this trend changing.

Then why are they looking at it and planing it? Bucktown and Wicker Park are no longer "hot" and have been static for years now. Expensive, overcrowded, and over-run. Bridgeport is in fact - along with some areas like Jefferson Park and Norwood Park on the NW side - the most active housing market in the city. And again, how many of the partyers in Wrigleyville actually live there? Are you saying that the center of Cubs fans universe is Wrigleyville? Their fan base lives all over the Chicago area, as does the Sox fan base. Some, but not that many - it's a DESTINATION. And with 25,000 to 45,000 people converging on 35th and the Ryan 81 times a year, that area is a DESTINATION too. You act as if the Sox fan base is centered in Bridgeport. C'mon! And with the 35th street Rock station, I personally know lots of folks from Bev, Morgan Park, Mt. Greenwood, Orland, andother areas of the S and SW sides and burbs who will be thrilled to eat and drink their asses off before and after games without having to worry about driving.

And read the story in the link above. THis isn't a pipe dream and it isn't a few Sox fans blathering during the off-season. It's in the works - it's gonna happen.

JNS
10-31-2009, 04:07 PM
For an area that you say is always packed there sure is a lot of turnover taking place every year. Go on a Wednesday night in January and you will have a different opinion. Most of these places make their money 81 days a year. Its not as lucrative as you think and there are a lot more people living within 2 miles of Wrigley Field than live within 2 miles of USCF.

Why do you want the Sox to be like the Cubs anyway?

This is a good idea and will be great for those who attend games, but its not going to make Bridgeport anything like Wrigleyville. For one thing Bridgeport residents like it the way it is.

Oh, you mean all those people who live East of the viaduct along 35th Street - that is, NOBODY. And I don't want the Sox to be like the Cubs - I just want a place to have a beer. Who said it will make Bridgeport like Wrigleyville? What mushrooms have you been eating? Can you read? if so, please re-read my posts - I didn't say ANYTHING about it being like Wrigleyville and in fact said it would NOT be like that. Furthermore, do you remember McCuddy's? Remember the Stockyard Inn? Or is that too long ago for you? Or do you like a desert with parking lots and nothing else? Ever been to Boston? Fenway? Or Baltimore? Camden Yards? Jeez.

And what is your source for the statements about how Bridgeport folks want things? A community organization? A poll? What? As for Wrigleyville - those are NOT local bars. Most of the patrons are NOT from Lakeview, or do you you have data that you have not shared with the rest of us? As for when they make their dough - well, most bars in most places are quiet on Wednesday nights. Sure they do great after the 81 Cub home games, but they also do great on Fall and Winter weekend nights - the times when most bars in most places make their money.

And again - it's being planned. So if you are against it, mobilize your forces and get out there and protest against having a few nice places near the ballpark and advocate FOR having a KC-like environment with a ballpark and empty parking lots and a desert-like atmosphere. That'll be popular.

Jpgr91
10-31-2009, 04:31 PM
Then why are they looking at it and planing it? Bucktown and Wicker Park are no longer "hot" and have been static for years now. Expensive, overcrowded, and over-run. Bridgeport is in fact - along with some areas like Jefferson Park and Norwood Park on the NW side - the most active housing market in the city. And again, how many of the partyers in Wrigleyville actually live there? Are you saying that the center of Cubs fans universe is Wrigleyville? Their fan base lives all over the Chicago area, as does the Sox fan base. Some, but not that many - it's a DESTINATION. And with 25,000 to 45,000 people converging on 35th and the Ryan 81 times a year, that area is a DESTINATION too. You act as if the Sox fan base is centered in Bridgeport. C'mon! And with the 35th street Rock station, I personally know lots of folks from Bev, Morgan Park, Mt. Greenwood, Orland, andother areas of the S and SW sides and burbs who will be thrilled to eat and drink their asses off before and after games without having to worry about driving.

And read the story in the link above. THis isn't a pipe dream and it isn't a few Sox fans blathering during the off-season. It's in the works - it's gonna happen.


I am not talking about real estate. The restaurant landscape in Bucktown / Wicker Park is vibrant and profitable. I have yet to meet any operator or investor that feels that significant investment in the South Side is a good idea. This lack of interest is evidenced by the complete lack of development in the area. I am not saying it is going to happen, but it is going to have to result in the Sox taking an ownership role in the project. If they decide to do it, it is not going to be with the idea of making a profit.

JNS
10-31-2009, 04:38 PM
I am not talking about real estate. The restaurant landscape in Bucktown / Wicker Park is vibrant and profitable. I have yet to meet any operator or investor that feels that significant investment in the South Side is a good idea. This lack of interest is evidenced by the complete lack of development in the area. I am not saying it is going to happen, but it is going to have to result in the Sox taking an ownership role in the project. If they decide to do it, it is not going to be with the idea of making a profit.

Complete lack of development on the Sout side? What planet are you on? Have you seen the development just east of the Ryan on State? All the new housing in Bridgeport? What operators and investors are you "meeting?" Seeing as you live in River North you probably don't get down here much - good, we don't want you. You have no idea what you are talking about.

And AGAIN - it is being planned. These aren't rumors. Obviously there are "investors and operators" who are interested. Maybe theyt aren't talking to you.

Jeez - this is such a no-brainer. You aren't offering any data to support your points. I am basing what I say on legit news stories and pklans that are in process. Actual stuff that is occurring. All you are doing is speculating based on your own person prejudices.

Jpgr91
10-31-2009, 05:01 PM
Complete lack of development on the Sout side? What planet are you on? Have you seen the development just east of the Ryan on State? All the new housing in Bridgeport? What operators and investors are you "meeting?" Seeing as you live in River North you probably don't get down here much - good, we don't want you. You have no idea what you are talking about.

And AGAIN - it is being planned. These aren't rumors. Obviously there are "investors and operators" who are interested. Maybe theyt aren't talking to you.

Jeez - this is such a no-brainer. You aren't offering any data to support your points. I am basing what I say on legit news stories and pklans that are in process. Actual stuff that is occurring. All you are doing is speculating based on your own person prejudices.

Again, I am not talking about real estate. I am talking about F&B facilities. It does not take more than a drive around the area to see there is not the same level of restaurant development in the area around USCF as there is in many other areas of the City. If the area had a demand, there would already be a supply. The world is a lot bigger than the South Side of Chicago, I suggest you gain a little bit of perspective.

dickallen15
10-31-2009, 05:03 PM
Oh, you mean all those people who live East of the viaduct along 35th Street - that is, NOBODY. And I don't want the Sox to be like the Cubs - I just want a place to have a beer. Who said it will make Bridgeport like Wrigleyville? What mushrooms have you been eating? Can you read? if so, please re-read my posts - I didn't say ANYTHING about it being like Wrigleyville and in fact said it would NOT be like that. Furthermore, do you remember McCuddy's? Remember the Stockyard Inn? Or is that too long ago for you? Or do you like a desert with parking lots and nothing else? Ever been to Boston? Fenway? Or Baltimore? Camden Yards? Jeez.

And what is your source for the statements about how Bridgeport folks want things? A community organization? A poll? What? As for Wrigleyville - those are NOT local bars. Most of the patrons are NOT from Lakeview, or do you you have data that you have not shared with the rest of us? As for when they make their dough - well, most bars in most places are quiet on Wednesday nights. Sure they do great after the 81 Cub home games, but they also do great on Fall and Winter weekend nights - the times when most bars in most places make their money.

And again - it's being planned. So if you are against it, mobilize your forces and get out there and protest against having a few nice places near the ballpark and advocate FOR having a KC-like environment with a ballpark and empty parking lots and a desert-like atmosphere. That'll be popular.

Its being planned and they need money. If its such a money maker, why don't you throw some money at it? If you think the people that hang out in Wrigleyville aren't mostly local during the offseason, the guy taking mushrooms is you.

DumpJerry
10-31-2009, 05:05 PM
It does not take more than a drive around the area to see there is not the same level of restaurant development in the area around USCF as there is in many other areas of the City.
Huh? Have you really driven around the city in residential areas or do you just stick with commercial areas with restaurants, etc? Large portions of the Northwest side are mostly homes, same with the Southwest and South sides. The West Side has large areas which are mostly residential, too.

Over 70% of Chicagoans do not live walking distance to several dozen restaurants, clubs, etc.

Bucktown/Wicker Park is but one small area of the entire city. Same with Wrigleyville.

DumpJerry
10-31-2009, 05:06 PM
Its being planned and they need money. If its such a money maker, why don't you throw some money at it? If you think the people that hang out in Wrigleyville aren't mostly local during the offseason, the guy taking mushrooms is you.
Let's back off on the personal stuff.

JNS
10-31-2009, 05:36 PM
Huh? Have you really driven around the city in residential areas or do you just stick with commercial areas with restaurants, etc? Large portions of the Northwest side are mostly homes, same with the Southwest and South sides. The West Side has large areas which are mostly residential, too.

Over 70% of Chicagoans do not live walking distance to several dozen restaurants, clubs, etc.

Bucktown/Wicker Park is but one small area of the entire city. Same with Wrigleyville.

Exactly. And I promise that next Saturday night - tonight doesn't count because it's Halloween and it's a big party night so of course the bars are full - the bars in Wrigleyville will be full of people, most of them NOT form the neighborhood. A huge portion of them come in from the burbs. Why some people think that ALL Sox fans live in Bridgeport and ALL Cubs fans live in Lakeview is beyond me. DO I think that a [potential] 35th street strip would be anything like Wrigleyville? Of course not, but it would be nice - I'd go there off-season, as would thousands of others from all over the Chicago area. I happen to live on the South side, you know - that area that according to another post nobody wants to invest in, which is why so many of the houses around here go for $1 million or more and why you can't get a burned out hulk in Bronzeville - a total gut job for under $600,000. It's because the South Side is a dump and nobody ever comes here.

To me, as a native South sider, this is just part of the bigotry that so many North side folks have. They never come down here but they think they know all about it. They think that the entire South side is Englewood. It's the same as me thinking the entire North side is the Juneway Jungle. It's just ignorance. I think a sane, well-planned set of eating and drinking venues, along with some entertainment stuff - would do great on 35th street on and off-season, and that the residents of Bridgeport wouldn't have any issue with it. We aren't talking a huge entertainment district, but a nice mix of a few places would be great.

JNS
10-31-2009, 05:52 PM
Again, I am not talking about real estate. I am talking about F&B facilities. It does not take more than a drive around the area to see there is not the same level of restaurant development in the area around USCF as there is in many other areas of the City. If the area had a demand, there would already be a supply. The world is a lot bigger than the South Side of Chicago, I suggest you gain a little bit of perspective.

Within a 15 minute drive of my house on the horrible, empty, deserted, scary South side there are:

- French restaurants;
- Thai restaurants;
- Italian restaurants;
- Chinese restaurants;
- Mexican restaurants;
- Soul Food restaurants;
- Middle Eastern restaurants;
- High end American cuisine;
- Greek restaurants;
- Rib & Barbecue joints;
- Sushi restaurants.

And on and on. Come on down here some day - you may find if to be different than what your imagination or some "operator and investor" tells you it is like. Lot's going on down here - but a lot of it isn't in the frame of reference of folks on the North side. A lot of it is Latino (Pilsen, Little Village, Gage Park, South Chicago/East side), African American (Bronzeville, Chatham, Woodlawn, North Kenwood, etc.), Irish (Beverly), Italian (Heart of Chicago and Taylor Street), Palestinian and Arab (large parts of the SW side), Polish and Lithuanian (large parts of the SW side) and a host of others. This is a huge town and not everyone hangs out on the North side. Just because you don't know that doesn't mean it isn't the case. And I promise you, all these types, of people plus many from the burbs would come to a centrally located area with good public transportation, easy parking without getting towed or ticketed or spending $30 just to park, with a variety of venues and stuff to do. Before, during, or after a ballgame, or in January when there isn't any ballgame.

Look at what is going on near the UC these days. Was it like that 20 years ago? Of course not - the Chicago Stadium was in one of the worst areas of the entire city. Things change. Could what they are proposing happen with the projects directly across the Ryan? Almost certainly not. Again, things change.

Jpgr91
10-31-2009, 06:34 PM
Huh? Have you really driven around the city in residential areas or do you just stick with commercial areas with restaurants, etc? Large portions of the Northwest side are mostly homes, same with the Southwest and South sides. The West Side has large areas which are mostly residential, too.

Over 70% of Chicagoans do not live walking distance to several dozen restaurants, clubs, etc.

Bucktown/Wicker Park is but one small area of the entire city. Same with Wrigleyville.

I have. What I am referring to is the type of partnerships that allow restaurants to grow to profitable "machines", specifically private ownership partnering with private equity. This has yet to happen in large scale on the SS, you just do not see those type of relationships on the South Side.

JNS
10-31-2009, 06:36 PM
I have. What I am referring to is the type of partnerships that allow restaurants to grow to profitable "machines", specifically private ownership partnering with private equity. This has yet to happen in large scale on the SS, you just do not see those type of relationships on the South Side.

What are you talking about? There are no successful venues on the South side? I really don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about. Please cite specific examples of what you mean.

Jpgr91
10-31-2009, 06:40 PM
Within a 15 minute drive of my house on the horrible, empty, deserted, scary South side there are:

- French restaurants;
- Thai restaurants;
- Italian restaurants;
- Chinese restaurants;
- Mexican restaurants;
- Soul Food restaurants;
- Middle Eastern restaurants;
- High end American cuisine;
- Greek restaurants;
- Rib & Barbecue joints;
- Sushi restaurants.

And on and on. Come on down here some day - you may find if to be different than what your imagination or some "operator and investor" tells you it is like. Lot's going on down here - but a lot of it isn't in the frame of reference of folks on the North side. A lot of it is Latino (Pilsen, Little Village, Gage Park, South Chicago/East side), African American (Bronzeville, Chatham, Woodlawn, North Kenwood, etc.), Irish (Beverly), Italian (Heart of Chicago and Taylor Street), Palestinian and Arab (large parts of the SW side), Polish and Lithuanian (large parts of the SW side) and a host of others. This is a huge town and not everyone hangs out on the North side. Just because you don't know that doesn't mean it isn't the case. And I promise you, all these types, of people plus many from the burbs would come to a centrally located area with good public transportation, easy parking without getting towed or ticketed or spending $30 just to park, with a variety of venues and stuff to do. Before, during, or after a ballgame, or in January when there isn't any ballgame.

Look at what is going on near the UC these days. Was it like that 20 years ago? Of course not - the Chicago Stadium was in one of the worst areas of the entire city. Things change. Could what they are proposing happen with the projects directly across the Ryan? Almost certainly not. Again, things change.

The culinary options on the South Side is not what is at issue here, what is at issue is the profitability of the space outside USCF. The communities around USCF has yet to see a high volume / high profit operation. Out of those places you mentioned, how many have over 100 seats or turn over 1mil a year in revenues? 1 maybe?

Jpgr91
10-31-2009, 06:45 PM
What are you talking about? There are no successful venues on the South side? I really don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about. Please cite specific examples of what you mean.

I never said venue. I was refering to the lack of private equity dollars invested in SS estabilishments. What exactly are you asking for?

dickallen15
10-31-2009, 06:56 PM
Exactly. And I promise that next Saturday night - tonight doesn't count because it's Halloween and it's a big party night so of course the bars are full - the bars in Wrigleyville will be full of people, most of them NOT form the neighborhood. A huge portion of them come in from the burbs. Why some people think that ALL Sox fans live in Bridgeport and ALL Cubs fans live in Lakeview is beyond me. DO I think that a [potential] 35th street strip would be anything like Wrigleyville? Of course not, but it would be nice - I'd go there off-season, as would thousands of others from all over the Chicago area. I happen to live on the South side, you know - that area that according to another post nobody wants to invest in, which is why so many of the houses around here go for $1 million or more and why you can't get a burned out hulk in Bronzeville - a total gut job for under $600,000. It's because the South Side is a dump and nobody ever comes here.

To me, as a native South sider, this is just part of the bigotry that so many North side folks have. They never come down here but they think they know all about it. They think that the entire South side is Englewood. It's the same as me thinking the entire North side is the Juneway Jungle. It's just ignorance. I think a sane, well-planned set of eating and drinking venues, along with some entertainment stuff - would do great on 35th street on and off-season, and that the residents of Bridgeport wouldn't have any issue with it. We aren't talking a huge entertainment district, but a nice mix of a few places would be great.

If the northside people, which I am one, are bigoted and basically afraid to come to the southside, why would they flock to this new proposal? I think it is fine for White Sox fans and on game days it will be very crowded. I think all other times, its attendance would be sketchy at best. If it was a slam dunk to print money, the plans would have been announced and the financing would be no problem. The White Sox are going to lose some parking revenue from this, which I'm sure is an issue. Probably not a ton, but a decent number. I'm not against building it, but I think it should only be open during the season. Maybe some extra days for Chicago teams' playoff runs, etc. I am old enough to remember McCuddy's and if you remember, it was not only open during the season, it was only open during days of games. I totally disagree on your thinking about the crowd at bars near Wrigley. Unless there is a concert at Metro or Cubby Bear, the vast majority of those people there on a Friday or Saturday night are locals. I've lived within 3 miles of Wrigley Field for 20 years. I think I have gone to those bars, not counting the 2 months I dated a girl who live a couple blocks from there, less than 5 times. A big issue for these estabishments IMO will be pricing. If they are open non game days, will they be charging ballpark prices? I don't think that would go over very well. I don't think even Jimbo was charging $5 a can when there was no game.

Brian26
10-31-2009, 09:47 PM
Exactly. And I promise that next Saturday night - tonight doesn't count because it's Halloween and it's a big party night so of course the bars are full - the bars in Wrigleyville will be full of people, most of them NOT form the neighborhood. A huge portion of them come in from the burbs.

Wrong.

Walk down Clark Street at 11:30 am on a Saturday morning in the Fall, like I did this morning, and witness every bar full of Big Ten almuni, who just rolled out of bed, watching college football.

The demographics of Bridgeport do not support what you're asking for to be built.

JNS
11-01-2009, 12:12 AM
Well folks, the story was on channel 32 (Fox) news tonight - perhaps some other place as well. It is also in the Sun-Times:

http://www.suntimes.com/business/1856919,CST-NWS-soxpark31.article

You guys might not think it makes sense, but there obviously are people who have the capital you guys claim isn't there to do this, and want to.

And for the last time - IT ISN'T ABOUT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF BRIDGEPORT. There are over 1,000,000 people on the South side. There is a large market for venues at that location in January as much as June.

And hey - many North siders will come - others won't; they have their own venues up there, and are mainly Cubs fans anyhow.

Whatever you guys think, it's being looked at very seriously by people who have the dough and the wherewithal to put it together. So whatever you think, the folks who can make it happen seem to be taking it pretty seriously.

One way or another, the casual way you guys are dissing this in the face of what the reality is, as reported by multiple media outlets makes this argument pointless. You aren't about to let the facts get in your way.

Or - put your money where your mouths are. How much you wanna bet it doesn't get done?

DumpJerry
11-01-2009, 07:33 AM
Jpgr:

You're overlooking the largest variable in the whole equation:

Zoning laws. If the residents don't want it, it won't come. The residents don't want their home displaced, their peace and quiet disturbed at 2:00 a.m., their streets clogged with cars, their parking restricted, etc. Since they won't approve zoning changes, the South Side won't become North Side South.

Development along 35th Street has nothing to do with the White Sox. Many baseball teams are located in areas which are nothing more than a collection of highway off ramps. I've never been to Yankee Stadium, but my friends (who are Sox fans, so they are living in reality) tell me it's in a neighborhood you do not want to linger in after the game ends unless you have an Uzi. I've heard that the Angels' stadium is in the middle of nowhere with nothing but parking lots and highways all around it.

Sox fans and others who come to Sox games come to see baseball, not get a burger which is replicated at 5,000 other locations of whatever franchise happens to get the winning bid to locate outside the ballpark.

dickallen15
11-01-2009, 08:18 AM
Well folks, the story was on channel 32 (Fox) news tonight - perhaps some other place as well. It is also in the Sun-Times:

http://www.suntimes.com/business/1856919,CST-NWS-soxpark31.article

You guys might not think it makes sense, but there obviously are people who have the capital you guys claim isn't there to do this, and want to.

And for the last time - IT ISN'T ABOUT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF BRIDGEPORT. There are over 1,000,000 people on the South side. There is a large market for venues at that location in January as much as June.

And hey - many North siders will come - others won't; they have their own venues up there, and are mainly Cubs fans anyhow.



Whatever you guys think, it's being looked at very seriously by people who have the dough and the wherewithal to put it together. So whatever you think, the folks who can make it happen seem to be taking it pretty seriously.

One way or another, the casual way you guys are dissing this in the face of what the reality is, as reported by multiple media outlets makes this argument pointless. You aren't about to let the facts get in your way.

Or - put your money where your mouths are. How much you wanna bet it doesn't get done?

You should put your money where your mouth is and try to invest in it. They are having financing issues.

It will happen, the argument I have with you is the scale. The financing isn't in place. If it was guaranteed to be huge like you seem to think it is, financing wouldn't be a problem. I can see them getting the OK to be open during game days, but I don't see why that particular community would want a collection of bars that attract outsiders into their neighborhood 365 days a year. They don't want any traffic from White Sox parking lots going through their neighborhood after games when they may stop at local establishments. Why would they want this? I live a block and a half away from the Division/ State bar scene. On weekends its loud.There are car windows smashed just about every weekend. People peeing and doing other things on sidewalks. In the morning, Division Street looks like a war zone from all the garbage. During the week except for Butch's the places are pretty empty. Small scale, it would definitely add to a White Sox game. Thinking its something that is going to make a large impact and perhaps change the entire area around there isn't accurate IMO and I would bet anything the majority of residents of the area are totally against it.

JNS
11-01-2009, 09:30 AM
You should put your money where your mouth is and try to invest in it. They are having financing issues.

It will happen, the argument I have with you is the scale. The financing isn't in place. If it was guaranteed to be huge like you seem to think it is, financing wouldn't be a problem. I can see them getting the OK to be open during game days, but I don't see why that particular community would want a collection of bars that attract outsiders into their neighborhood 365 days a year. They don't want any traffic from White Sox parking lots going through their neighborhood after games when they may stop at local establishments. Why would they want this? I live a block and a half away from the Division/ State bar scene. On weekends its loud.There are car windows smashed just about every weekend. People peeing and doing other things on sidewalks. In the morning, Division Street looks like a war zone from all the garbage. During the week except for Butch's the places are pretty empty. Small scale, it would definitely add to a White Sox game. Thinking its something that is going to make a large impact and perhaps change the entire area around there isn't accurate IMO and I would bet anything the majority of residents of the area are totally against it.

Where did I say it'll be anything like Division St. or Lakeview? We are talking a couple of eating/drinking places and a store ot three. And again, the traffic will be oriented EAST, AWAY from the residential areas of Bridgeport. A lot of it might actually be on the East side of the Ryan which isn't Bridgeport at all. Read my posts dude - nobody is taling about the inanity of Butch McGuires and Mothers or the stuff on Clark Street. The Clark street stuff developed organically over a bunch of years in the 80s into the early 90s and Division St. is just a zoo - nobody wants that. We are talking about something more like Yawkey Way in Boston or the Camden Yards development in Baltimore.

You obviously haven't really read my posts because you are arguing against something that I have NOT been arguing for. Jeez.

DumpJerry
11-01-2009, 11:17 AM
Where did I say it'll be anything like Division St. or Lakeview? We are talking a couple of eating/drinking places and a store ot three. And again, the traffic will be oriented EAST, AWAY from the residential areas of Bridgeport. A lot of it might actually be on the East side of the Ryan which isn't Bridgeport at all. Read my posts dude - nobody is taling about the inanity of Butch McGuires and Mothers or the stuff on Clark Street. The Clark street stuff developed organically over a bunch of years in the 80s into the early 90s and Division St. is just a zoo - nobody wants that. We are talking about something more like Yawkey Way in Boston or the Camden Yards development in Baltimore.

You obviously haven't really read my posts because you are arguing against something that I have NOT been arguing for. Jeez.
The traffic will not take Halsted because..........?

As those of us who drive from downtown/near north to the Sox games know, the Dan Ryan is the last place you want to take to get to Comiskey. Halsted and Canal are great alternatives.

In order for a 363 day chain restaurant to locate on 35th Street and succeed, it needs many other commercial outlets right by it. So, yes, we're talking about a Division Street/Clark & Addison type of "zoo." There are already plenty of bar/restaurant places open 365 in the vicinity of the park (Rocky's on 31st and Priceton opened in Sept. is one example).

JNS
11-01-2009, 11:59 AM
The traffic will not take Halsted because..........?

As those of us who drive from downtown/near north to the Sox games know, the Dan Ryan is the last place you want to take to get to Comiskey. Halsted and Canal are great alternatives.

In order for a 363 day chain restaurant to locate on 35th Street and succeed, it needs many other commercial outlets right by it. So, yes, we're talking about a Division Street/Clark & Addison type of "zoo." There are already plenty of bar/restaurant places open 365 in the vicinity of the park (Rocky's on 31st and Priceton opened in Sept. is one example).


Then would one of you please explain why they are working on doing exactly that.

As for one's route home, if you live near downtown have you ever tried State Street? Last time I check ed it heads directly downtown.

I don't know where any of you guys live, but it's pretty clear to me that you haven't been following the demographic changes in Bridgeport over the past 8 or 9 years. And again if this is such a bad idea, why is it all over the media all of a sudden and why are they looking at it so closely? Please just answer the question. Why? You have already stated your opinion, as have I, but you haven't said why you think they are looking at this seriously.

And NO - it doesn't have to be a Division St. type thing. There are plenty of areas in the city that are nowhere near the sort of zoo that Division (or Lincoln & Belden, or Clark & Addison, or Damen, Milwaukke, & North) is. You are seeing this as a zero-sum deal and it isn't.

So - again - why are they taking such a close look?

LoveYourSuit
11-01-2009, 12:25 PM
The traffic will not take Halsted because..........?

As those of us who drive from downtown/near north to the Sox games know, the Dan Ryan is the last place you want to take to get to Comiskey. Halsted and Canal are great alternatives.

In order for a 363 day chain restaurant to locate on 35th Street and succeed, it needs many other commercial outlets right by it. So, yes, we're talking about a Division Street/Clark & Addison type of "zoo." There are already plenty of bar/restaurant places open 365 in the vicinity of the park (Rocky's on 31st and Priceton opened in Sept. is one example).


I think 90% + of the Sox fans who visit the Cell live outside the neighborhood. Those places you keep mentioning are solid choices for the handful who commute via foot to the Cell and live in the area.

These establishments being mentioned/proposed are for those who drive in to to town to catch a Sox game and are looking for a place to hang out without having to move their car from one of the lots.

dickallen15
11-01-2009, 01:00 PM
I think 90% + of the Sox fans who visit the Cell live outside the neighborhood. Those places you keep mentioning are solid choices for the handful who commute via foot to the Cell and live in the area.

These establishments being mentioned/proposed are for those who drive in to to town to catch a Sox game and are looking for a place to hang out without having to move their car from one of the lots.

You're right. Its why JR wanted to build a stadium in Addison. This thing will be great for game days. There will be people there on Saturday morning for a Saturday night game. I don't think the offseason will bring much business at least not at a sustained rate, although the agency did say they wanted to make it a 365 day a year destination. If they are going to use that entire lot, this will be a huge project.

JNS
11-01-2009, 01:05 PM
I think 90% + of the Sox fans who visit the Cell live outside the neighborhood. Those places you keep mentioning are solid choices for the handful who commute via foot to the Cell and live in the area.

These establishments being mentioned/proposed are for those who drive in to to town to catch a Sox game and are looking for a place to hang out without having to move their car from one of the lots.


I just don't understand why, as soon as a serious proposal is made for some nice places by the park - like other ballparks have - people start to advocate for the desert that it is now. Did these folks also like the blue seats and no-roof upper deck? Nobody is talking about another Division Street, and the notion that it needs to be that big a crazy to succeed is just plain wrong. Not that they've offered any data to back it up.

Also, don't forget the PT crowd. The actual center of Sox fan gravity is the SW side, Beverly/Morgan Park/Mt. Greenwood, and the South and SW burbs running from Palos and Oak Lawn out to Tinley, Orland, South Holland all the way over to NW Indiana. For these folks the new Rock statrion will provide a fast, easy way to get into the games. As I have said above, I personally know many people who will take the train in so they can drink post-game and not have to worry about the long drive back to the burbs.

JNS
11-01-2009, 01:13 PM
You're right. Its why JR wanted to build a stadium in Addison. This thing will be great for game days. There will be people there on Saturday morning for a Saturday night game. I don't think the offseason will bring much business at least not at a sustained rate, although the agency did say they wanted to make it a 365 day a year destination. If they are going to use that entire lot, this will be a huge project.

They are NOT talking about using the entire lot. They are talking about 35th St from the Ryan to the gate, and along Wentworth towards 33rd St. That's plenty of space. Kind of where the busses park now.

LoveYourSuit
11-01-2009, 02:04 PM
They are NOT talking about using the entire lot. They are talking about 35th St from the Ryan to the gate, and along Wentworth towards 33rd St. That's plenty of space. Kind of where the busses park now.


I think folks are putting way too much into the "loss of parking spaces." I have visited about 12 ML stadiums and the Sox by far have the most parking space available outside Kaufman stadium. I park in lot C with my season ticket pass and last year was one of the few years I have seen that lot only 3/4 full for games with 32K plus in attendance. Fans are figuring out other ways to get to the games.

JNS
11-01-2009, 02:18 PM
I think folks are putting way too much into the "loss of parking spaces." I have visited about 12 ML stadiums and the Sox by far have the most parking space available outside Kaufman stadium. I park in lot C with my season ticket pass and last year was one of the few years I have seen that lot only 3/4 full for games with 32K plus in attendance. Fans are figuring out other ways to get to the games.

If I don't take the 55th St bus and the red line I park on 36th and State or right off of State on 36th. It's a 5 minute walk down State and across the Ryan and is FREE.

Seriously, I agree with you, and again, I think the new 35th St Rock station will cut down on the driving somewhat.

The Cubs, with about the same number of seats, and a full house every game do fine almost no close-in parking.

What I don't get is the support for the desert - the parking lots are ugly, and with good PT many folks don't have to drive. By parking on State (when I drive) I am home before most folks are out of the bloody lot.

I also think that some people don't understand that the projects are long gone and there is no issue with parking East of the Ryan. If you are willing to walk slightly more you can park over by IIT at 33rd and Indiana too. It saves $20 and gets you out of there much faster, post-game.

skobabe8
11-01-2009, 05:30 PM
If I don't take the 55th St bus and the red line I park on 36th and State or right off of State on 36th. It's a 5 minute walk down State and across the Ryan and is FREE.

Seriously, I agree with you, and again, I think the new 35th St Rock station will cut down on the driving somewhat.

The Cubs, with about the same number of seats, and a full house every game do fine almost no close-in parking.

What I don't get is the support for the desert - the parking lots are ugly, and with good PT many folks don't have to drive. By parking on State (when I drive) I am home before most folks are out of the bloody lot.

I also think that some people don't understand that the projects are long gone and there is no issue with parking East of the Ryan. If you are willing to walk slightly more you can park over by IIT at 33rd and Indiana too. It saves $20 and gets you out of there much faster, post-game.

SSHHHHHHHHHHH! :tongue:

JNS
11-01-2009, 05:37 PM
SSHHHHHHHHHHH! :tongue:

I didn't divulge the REAL secret places.

In reality the best place to park is by your local red line station. It gets me closer to the ballpark faster.

LoveYourSuit
11-01-2009, 08:14 PM
SSHHHHHHHHHHH! :tongue:


Actually, there are still a few spots both SE and NE of the park I would not recommend people to walk alone at. Immediately East of the park should be fine.

JNS
11-01-2009, 09:11 PM
Actually, there are still a few spots both SE and NE of the park I would not recommend people to walk alone at. Immediately East of the park should be fine.

There are still some projects a bit North on State that are not so great, but SE isn't a problem.

ewokpelts
11-02-2009, 08:06 AM
What is the basis for your writing that? Where did you hear it or see it? There is plenty of parking. And the way to avoid traffic congestion is to take PT. And what about PT? What about the opening of the new Rock Island station on 35th? It's true that they make a lot of dough from the parking, but if increased activity along 35th street means increased attendance and better TV ratings - and if any other venues in MLB or big-time sports generally can serve as models it does - they'll do it. AND THEY ALREADY HAVE A GIFT SHOP.

And this has nothing to do with what the Sox own - THEY DON'T OWN ANY OF IT. IT IS ALL OWNED BY THE ISFA. I agree with Perdurabo - it doesn't have to be the usual suburban mall operations. They can let the Levy organization - the outfit that runs the stadium club and the venues at the UC do some stuff. And there are plenty of others as well. This is a huge market - it ain't KC or Cincinnati. The gift shop where you need to go into the gate4 entrance and ask a security guard to let you in? And you need to wait in the lobby for a staffer to open up the gift shop?

oh, and the sox may not OWN the ballpark campus, they certainly CONTROL it.

Nelfox02
11-02-2009, 12:43 PM
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=7093389

thoughts on this?

voodoochile
11-02-2009, 12:45 PM
About ****ing time...

soxfanatlanta
11-02-2009, 12:51 PM
About ****ing time...

+1

Hopefully this pans out.

g0g0
11-02-2009, 01:19 PM
Sweet!!!

asindc
11-02-2009, 01:20 PM
About ****ing time... Pretty much my sentiments as well. I've always wondered what the hold up has been.

RedHeadPaleHoser
11-02-2009, 01:28 PM
Love the picture - with the Grinder Rules WS Trophy in it too.

And it would be nice - question becomes though, what happens to parking? We're already paying over $20.....would a parking structure go into this also?

GoGoCrede
11-02-2009, 01:36 PM
As if I needed a reason to go to more Sox games. :D::D::D:

DumpJerry
11-02-2009, 02:17 PM
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=7093389

thoughts on this?
:searchfirst:

beasly213
11-02-2009, 03:58 PM
This would be cool to have in the neighborhood. Even though I do like the Bridgeport area the way it is now I wouldn't mind another option to check out restaurant wise. Mostly because the other "sports bar" Buffalo Wings and Rings sucks.

DumpJerry
11-02-2009, 04:27 PM
This would be cool to have in the neighborhood. Even though I do like the Bridgeport area the way it is now I wouldn't mind another option to check out restaurant wise. Mostly because the other "sports bar" Buffalo Wings and Rings sucks.
Have you gone to Rocky's? It is not a franchise place.

JNS
11-02-2009, 06:18 PM
Have you gone to Rocky's? It is not a franchise place.

Rocky's is fine. Do we have permission to have more than one?

What they are talking about doing will be on the Eastern fringe of Bridgeport and won't create any problems for those living to the West of the viaduct. People who complain about traffic on Halsted are being silly - it's a through street with lots of traffic anyhow.

I should add that with Bridgeport now abutting the Southern edge of a hugely expanded Chinatown, there are plenty of new place in the area and I haven't heard any complaints about them. My favorite Chinese place these days is the Potsticker House on 31st and Halsted. Outstanding place. But - is it Bridgeport or is it Chinatown?

Why, it's both Bridgeport AND Chinatown!

But seriously, the complaints from folks who are worried that this will become another Rush St. are silly - of course it won't. Sillier still are those who think that there is no "equity capital" for investment on the Near South Side. Of course there is!

It's been all over local media for a few days now - this is more than just a leak - it's gonna happen.

chisoxfanatic
11-02-2009, 06:44 PM
I don't understand why so many people complain about the traffic on Halsted. It's not that bad anyways, especially since the little Jewel closed two years ago and more storefronts have been closed up between 31st and 35th streets. The real traffic problems on Halsted is north of the Orange Line as you approach UIC and north of there past Madison...It's gotten so bad that I often use Canal or Clark as my north/south street to get to the shops on Roosevelt.

I can't wait to see actual graphic renderings of this whole thing. It's about time! And, as a fairly long resident of this neighborhood (I've been living here for almost five years now), I will welcome this change.

Brian26
11-02-2009, 07:37 PM
Sillier still are those who think that there is no "equity capital" for investment on the Near South Side. Of course there is!

I'm not against the development on the north side of 35th, but I'm pessimistic that equity capital exits to fund a project like this right now. The commercial real estate market hasn't even hit rock bottom yet; there is very likely a bust coming similar to what's already happened with the housing market. It's not silly to consider this Sox project is a long way from happening. Don't keep your head buried in the sand. There are strip malls and vacant buildings lining the streets all over the place. I don't know any developer who has money to burn right now.

JNS
11-02-2009, 07:59 PM
I'm not against the development on the north side of 35th, but I'm pessimistic that equity capital exits to fund a project like this right now. The commercial real estate market hasn't even hit rock bottom yet; there is very likely a bust coming similar to what's already happened with the housing market. It's not silly to consider this Sox project is a long way from happening. Don't keep your head buried in the sand. There are strip malls and vacant buildings lining the streets all over the place. I don't know any developer who has money to burn right now.

This is more like a public-private partnership due to the ISFA and its extremely clout-heavy board members. It's isn't the same thing as developing a strip mall or a condo conversion.

Hell, some guys just bought the Sun-Times. If a bankrupt newspaper can be sold, a couple of joints on 35th can be financed.

Bucky F. Dent
11-02-2009, 08:01 PM
About ****ing time...

Thank You!!!

Jpgr91
11-02-2009, 08:05 PM
I'm not against the development on the north side of 35th, but I'm pessimistic that equity capital exits to fund a project like this right now. The commercial real estate market hasn't even hit rock bottom yet; there is very likely a bust coming similar to what's already happened with the housing market. It's not silly to consider this Sox project is a long way from happening. Don't keep your head buried in the sand. There are strip malls and vacant buildings lining the streets all over the place. I don't know any developer who has money to burn right now.

The Sox could always finance it themselves. The most likely solution is the Sox investing the money, and then contracting out an operator to manage the space.

Lundind1
11-02-2009, 08:38 PM
I am not going to say this again. We need this here. I have hotdogs and hamburgers galore here but nothing like this. It is not going to become like Wrigleyville, Lakeview, or anything insane like that.

Also, I don't know why people complain about the traffic on Halsted. If you have been in Lakeview before, even on a normal day, it makes what people complain about here look like childs play.

We need much more development and things down here. It would really wrap the whole neighborhood up and make it so that it will never get to be a bad area, ever.

Just my 2 cents.

JNS
11-02-2009, 10:45 PM
i am not going to say this again. We need this here. I have hotdogs and hamburgers galore here but nothing like this. It is not going to become like wrigleyville, lakeview, or anything insane like that.

Also, i don't know why people complain about the traffic on halsted. If you have been in lakeview before, even on a normal day, it makes what people complain about here look like childs play.

We need much more development and things down here. It would really wrap the whole neighborhood up and make it so that it will never get to be a bad area, ever.

Just my 2 cents.

thank you!

LoveYourSuit
11-02-2009, 11:43 PM
I'm not against the development on the north side of 35th, but I'm pessimistic that equity capital exits to fund a project like this right now. The commercial real estate market hasn't even hit rock bottom yet; there is very likely a bust coming similar to what's already happened with the housing market. It's not silly to consider this Sox project is a long way from happening. Don't keep your head buried in the sand. There are strip malls and vacant buildings lining the streets all over the place. I don't know any developer who has money to burn right now.


This wouldn't apply to this project because for 81 dates it has a guranteed gate. I can bet many well established franchises are licking their chops at this opportunity to get in there.

voodoochile
11-02-2009, 11:55 PM
This wouldn't apply to this project because for 81 dates it has a guranteed gate. I can bet many well established franchises are licking their chops at this opportunity to get in there.

Actually, you'd be surprised. Most big franchises look for opportunites with year round business. For example when Chili's sold one of their corporate stores here in NC they chose the one in Myrtle Beach because even though it got a huge hit during spring time every year, it wasn't worth much the rest of the time. Big corporations want locations that are busy year round like suburban malls or downtown in big cities where they can get both a lunch and dinner crowd as well as shopping groups on the weekends. A location that would only guaranteed to be busy for 5-6 hours a day 80+ days a year wouldn't be all that attractive.

JNS
11-02-2009, 11:56 PM
This wouldn't apply to this project because for 81 dates it has a guranteed gate. I can bet many well established franchises are licking their chops at this opportunity to get in there.

Well put. The commercial real estate bust that many predict is upcoming is probably going to happen. But as you say, this is different because of the 81 home dates, and weekend stuff off-season or in the summer but the Sox are on the road promise a much steadier flow than many other locations.

In the off-season it is very easy to get to, and offers easy parking; something that is very expensive or in very short supply downtown and at most of the North side entertainment strips. Of course it won't be Clark and Addison or Milwaukee, North, and Damen, State and Division (there is only one State and Division - let's keep it that way) or for that matter 26th and Kedize.

I'd be surprised if any of the folks who think that can't work or that there is no money to develop it have ever been to W 26th street on a Saturday night. Heart of Little Village. Clubs, bars, restaurants all packed. Lots and lots of money being spent. There are huge entertainment strips all over the city and they all do fine. I think a small one at 35th and the Ryan won't bother anybody and will thrive.

LoveYourSuit
11-03-2009, 12:13 AM
Actually, you'd be surprised. Most big franchises look for opportunites with year round business. For example when Chili's sold one of their corporate stores here in NC they chose the one in Myrtle Beach because even though it got a huge hit during spring time every year, it wasn't worth much the rest of the time. Big corporations want locations that are busy year round like suburban malls or downtown in big cities where they can get both a lunch and dinner crowd as well as shopping groups on the weekends. A location that would only guaranteed to be busy for 5-6 hours a day 80+ days a year wouldn't be all that attractive.

I could see where a franchise would want to pull out of a Touristic area with the current economic outlook. Right there is just no guarantee, period. This was one of the interesting conversations I had with many local restaurant owners in St Pete this past summer. Those folks can't even guarantee anything at peak vacation season.

But baseball is still very healthy. And if the Sox can guaranteed 80 days of 20,000 people coming in and out of the ballpark for those 3 or so establishments to capture, I think you will have more than a few interested investors looking.

I wonder what other entertainment ideas they have? Those ideas are the ones which can make or break this place for the offseason/winter. Those who live in the area, is a 15 screen movie theatre something the area might need?

doublem23
11-03-2009, 12:33 AM
In theory this would be great, but you just know it's going to end up being some crap chain garbage like Applebees/Fridays and a Buffalo Wild Wings.

My fingers are crossed, but I am not holding my breath that this will end up being developed into anything worthwhile.

skobabe8
11-03-2009, 08:00 AM
While I am hopeful this will happen, I will be realistic. The Cardinals were to begin construction on their ballpark village in 2006. It has hit several snags and this past year was used for parking and a softball field. Now granted, theirs was a huge project. But nonetheless, it was part of their new stadium plan and had financing lined up.


http://stlrams.com/photos/st_louis_cardinals_ballpark_village/images/159/500x375.aspx


It was the best pic I could find. :cool:

beasly213
11-03-2009, 08:20 AM
Yea I don't know what people are talking about traffic wise. Even on game days its not really all that bad..

Plus I think the idea is a lot of people would take the redline to this place instead of drive.

JNS
11-03-2009, 08:38 AM
While I am hopeful this will happen, I will be realistic. The Cardinals have were to begin construction on their ballpark village in 2006. It has hit several snags and this past year was used for parking and a softball field. Now granted, theirs was a huge project. But nonetheless, it was part of their new stadium plan and had financing lined up.


http://stlrams.com/photos/st_louis_cardinals_ballpark_village/images/159/500x375.aspx


It was the best pic I could find. :cool:

The 35th and Wentworth idea is smaller and more realistic, and Chicago is a much, much bigger market than St. Louis.

As for the Chili's/Buffalo Wild Wings issue, maybe, but I doubt it. With the Levy Organization - the outfit that runs the stadium club, and Lettuce Entertain You among others - there are plenty of local shops that have the ability to put something fairly unique together.

For the skeptics out there, hey - this isn't going to happen tomorrow. I suppose that if they started construction today they could have it ready for April 1st, but that obviously isn't happening. So 2011 seems more likely.

Jpgr91
11-03-2009, 08:49 AM
The 35th and Wentworth idea is smaller and more realistic, and Chicago is a much, much bigger market than St. Louis.

As for the Chili's/Buffalo Wild Wings issue, maybe, but I doubt it. With the Levy Organization - the outfit that runs the stadium club, and Lettuce Entertain You among others - there are plenty of local shops that have the ability to put something fairly unique together.

For the skeptics out there, hey - this isn't going to happen tomorrow. I suppose that if they started construction today they could have it ready for April 1st, but that obviously isn't happening. So 2011 seems more likely.

Melman (Lettuce) has pretty much retired and has turned the operation over to his sons. Their first venture (Hub 51) has been really successful, I am not sure if the USCF project would fit in the profile of what they do. Levy is now wholly owned by Compass, Compass is not in the business of running restaurants. The only restaurants Levy has in Chicago currently is Spiaggia and Bistro 110, these were opened prior to Compass acquiring Levy. Even though the Stadium Club at USCF looks like a restaurant, is operated more along the lines of a high volume catering operation.

JNS
11-03-2009, 09:18 AM
Melman (Lettuce) has pretty much retired and has turned the operation over to his sons. Their first venture (Hub 51) has been really successful, I am not sure if the USCF project would fit in the profile of what they do. Levy is now wholly owned by Compass, Compass is not in the business of running restaurants. The only restaurants Levy has in Chicago currently is Spiaggia and Bistro 110, these were opened prior to Compass acquiring Levy. Even though the Stadium Club at USCF looks like a restaurant, is operated more along the lines of a high volume catering operation.

Those are just two examples. There are lots more.

It has to be remembered how big the Chicago market is - only eclipsed by NYC/LI/Westchester County and the LA/Orange County/Ventura County megalopolis.

voodoochile
11-03-2009, 09:22 AM
I could see where a franchise would want to pull out of a Touristic area with the current economic outlook. Right there is just no guarantee, period. This was one of the interesting conversations I had with many local restaurant owners in St Pete this past summer. Those folks can't even guarantee anything at peak vacation season.

But baseball is still very healthy. And if the Sox can guaranteed 80 days of 20,000 people coming in and out of the ballpark for those 3 or so establishments to capture, I think you will have more than a few interested investors looking.

I wonder what other entertainment ideas they have? Those ideas are the ones which can make or break this place for the offseason/winter. Those who live in the area, is a 15 screen movie theatre something the area might need?

I'm sure people will be interested, just not so much the big corporate chains where every penny counts. ROI is the key word and most corporate restaurants want a big lunch business and that's only possible if there are lots of businesses in the vicinity. If indeed they can build it up enough to make it a place of destination 27/7/365 then you'll see the big names jump in. Until then it will more likely be smaller chains or even mom and pop establishments with big backing ala Wrigleyville. Love the idea of a movie theater. The area needs one.

ewokpelts
11-03-2009, 09:30 AM
Again, if we got a year round gift shop where you dont need to have security check you in, then I''m happy.

Anyting beyond that will be good, but dont expect it to be a 365 days a year money maker for the sox or whatever operation sets up shop in it.

russ99
11-03-2009, 09:34 AM
Again, if we got a year round gift shop where you dont need to have security check you in, then I''m happy.

Anyting beyond that will be good, but dont expect it to be a 365 days a year money maker for the sox or whatever operation sets up shop in it.

What about foot traffic from the El year-round? Do enough people in the area take the Red Line to and from downtown each day? Plus there's the ITT student base a few blocks away.

The Comiskey site isn't the desert between the highway and the underpass in the wintertime that some make it out to be, and that should factor in the year-round viability of the site. The Sox could also make it into a year-round sports destination, with tailgating for Sunday football games and also the NCAA in the early spring.

roylestillman
11-03-2009, 09:36 AM
The 35th and Wentworth idea is smaller and more realistic, and Chicago is a much, much bigger market than St. Louis.

As for the Chili's/Buffalo Wild Wings issue, maybe, but I doubt it. With the Levy Organization - the outfit that runs the stadium club, and Lettuce Entertain You among others - there are plenty of local shops that have the ability to put something fairly unique together.

For the skeptics out there, hey - this isn't going to happen tomorrow. I suppose that if they started construction today they could have it ready for April 1st, but that obviously isn't happening. So 2011 seems more likely.
Starting off, I appreciate your passion on this issue JNS, but I'm afraid the market may be stacked against you at this site. The problem is not necessarily the South Side, it's specifically 35th and Wentworth. Chicago is a bigger market than St. Louis but the new Busch site is located adjacent to downtown, allowing for at least the hope that a lunch and post work market could help these businesses on non game days. Draw a mile circle around 35th and Wentworth and you get a lot of empty parking lots for 280 days a year. (this isn't a knock on the neighborhood - Beverly/Morgan Park has a tough time with retail because if you draw that same mile circle you get cemeteries - not big shoppers) What retail looks for is density, which you have in Lakeview, Lincoln Park and even as you pointed out the 26th Street Little Village strip.

I've been to a lot of stadiums and the ones that seem to have a vibrant retail area near them are near downtown or dense neighborhoods (I'm thinking Boston, Cincinatti, Denver) Those that aren't don't (Texas, Milwaukee, Kansas City, even old Shea.) On it's own on non-game days I can't see 35th and Wentworth as a destination.

If the rents are subsidized, we will probably get a Sports bar, which is fine. As I have said, all I want is place outside the gates where I can meet people before the game and stay more than 43 minutes after the game. Whether I can go there on February 3rd doesn't matter to me.

dickallen15
11-03-2009, 09:40 AM
Well put. The commercial real estate bust that many predict is upcoming is probably going to happen. But as you say, this is different because of the 81 home dates, and weekend stuff off-season or in the summer but the Sox are on the road promise a much steadier flow than many other locations.

In the off-season it is very easy to get to, and offers easy parking; something that is very expensive or in very short supply downtown and at most of the North side entertainment strips. Of course it won't be Clark and Addison or Milwaukee, North, and Damen, State and Division (there is only one State and Division - let's keep it that way) or for that matter 26th and Kedize.

I'd be surprised if any of the folks who think that can't work or that there is no money to develop it have ever been to W 26th street on a Saturday night. Heart of Little Village. Clubs, bars, restaurants all packed. Lots and lots of money being spent. There are huge entertainment strips all over the city and they all do fine. I think a small one at 35th and the Ryan won't bother anybody and will thrive.

There are vacancies on N. Michigan Ave. A lot more people pass by there everyday than go to White Sox games 81 days a year. I agree it will eventually be built and will be a good thing for game days.

ewokpelts
11-03-2009, 09:45 AM
What about foot traffic from the El year-round? Do enough people in the area take the Red Line to and from downtown each day? Plus there's the ITT student base a few blocks away.

The Comiskey site isn't the desert between the highway and the underpass in the wintertime that some make it out to be, and that should factor in the year-round viability of the site. The Sox could also make it into a year-round sports destination, with tailgating for Sunday football games and also the NCAA in the early spring. They could have been doing this for 20 years(tailgating for bears games), but chose not to.

Jpgr91
11-03-2009, 09:47 AM
Those are just two examples. There are lots more.

It has to be remembered how big the Chicago market is - only eclipsed by NYC/LI/Westchester County and the LA/Orange County/Ventura County megalopolis.

Unless I am mistaken, there really are not any large groups in Chicago that do the high volume "value" concept. The big chains have been very successful in driving out the smaller operators. The restaurant conglomerates as they exist now are focusing on the high volume, high profit operations. That is where the challenge is, if the big chains are not interested, who runs the space?

ewokpelts
11-03-2009, 09:50 AM
Another point; The Captain Morgan Club, located ADJACENT to Wrigley Field, is empty during cubs games.

beasly213
11-03-2009, 09:57 AM
Another point; The Captain Morgan Club, located ADJACENT to Wrigley Field, is empty during cubs games.

A lot of that has to do with there being a ton of bars within walking distance to the stadium. Also whenever I passed it during game days it wasn't exactly empty.

LoveYourSuit
11-03-2009, 10:17 AM
The 35th and Wentworth idea is smaller and more realistic, and Chicago is a much, much bigger market than St. Louis.

As for the Chili's/Buffalo Wild Wings issue, maybe, but I doubt it. With the Levy Organization - the outfit that runs the stadium club, and Lettuce Entertain You among others - there are plenty of local shops that have the ability to put something fairly unique together.

For the skeptics out there, hey - this isn't going to happen tomorrow. I suppose that if they started construction today they could have it ready for April 1st, but that obviously isn't happening. So 2011 seems more likely.


Levy Organization to me = " A very expensive burger"

The last thing you want is to have a place priced out for a casual wage earner looking to have a burger and a beer befor going home. I am all for fine dining, but it's a baseball game not a wedding. I believe the Stadium Club is still open 45 minutes post game and an hour or two pre-game. You want fine dinning, there you go.

If the prices cannot stay reasonable, then there is no point.

ewokpelts
11-03-2009, 10:18 AM
Levy Organization to me = " A very expensive burger"

The last thing you want is to have a place priced out for a casual wage earner looking to have a burger and a beer befor going home. I am all for fine dining, but it's a baseball game not a wedding. I believe the Stadium Club is still open 45 minutes post game and an hour or two pre-game. You want fine dinning, there you go.

If the prices cannot stay reasonable, then there is no point.i assume you havent been to a chili's or tgifridays? $9 burgers.

LoveYourSuit
11-03-2009, 10:27 AM
I'm sure people will be interested, just not so much the big corporate chains where every penny counts. ROI is the key word and most corporate restaurants want a big lunch business and that's only possible if there are lots of businesses in the vicinity. If indeed they can build it up enough to make it a place of destination 27/7/365 then you'll see the big names jump in. Until then it will more likely be smaller chains or even mom and pop establishments with big backing ala Wrigleyville. Love the idea of a movie theater. The area needs one.


Yeah. The area is lacking a premier movie place from what I can recall. A movie theatre takes care of the worry of what goes on for those 180 days the Sox are not playing and makes it a destination place for the surrounding neighborhood.

Something like this would indeed cover most of lot B if not all. I guess then you are looking to build a multi level garage on the lots SW of the stadium if not promote more public transportation instead.

LoveYourSuit
11-03-2009, 10:29 AM
i assume you havent been to a chili's or tgifridays? $9 burgers.


Compared to a $12 burger from Levy?

voodoochile
11-03-2009, 10:30 AM
Yeah. The area is lacking a premier movie place from what I can recall. A movie theatre takes care of the worry of what goes on for those 180 days the Sox are not playing and makes it a destination place for the surrounding neighborhood.

Something like this would indeed cover most of lot B if not all. I guess then you are looking to build a multi level garage on the lots SW of the stadium if not promote more public transportation instead.

Would still love to see a highrise building with condos on top floors with views into the ballpark ala the rooftops in Wrigley...

ewokpelts
11-03-2009, 10:33 AM
Compared to a $12 burger from Levy?well, i'd rather have a levy burger than the $7 crap burger they sell through sportservice.

LoveYourSuit
11-03-2009, 10:34 AM
Would still love to see a highrise building with condos on top floors with views into the ballpark ala the rooftops in Wrigley...


Now you are going to piss off the meatball Sox fans. :rolleyes:

I agree with you. This is what I posted earlier in the thread:

I would do a relocation of the player's parking lot to the main entrance behind home plate (where the Scout Seat holders park).

Then I would use all that real estate behind LF to develop a strip of restaurants open year round and making the structure high enough to be visible from the Dan Ryan. I would make that LF strip have access into the ballpark from every restuarant.


If the Sox could one day do away with those lame as advertisement boards around the OF concourse, they can do wonders with all the real estate space on the othe side of those walls.

Picture the warehouse behind Camden or even the hated roof tops at Wrigley. Build some Chicago Style 3 flat buildings in place of those walls and use the space of retail. Then place the light towers on the roofs of those buildings.

LoveYourSuit
11-03-2009, 10:37 AM
well, i'd rather have a levy burger than the $7 crap burger they sell through sportservice.


Oh dear lord for sure. We will agree on that. SportsService sucks!

See, you and I don't mind paying a little extra for a good meal at an unknown location (I can guarantee 90% of our fanbase in attendance doesn't know who Levy is). But the problem is trying to sell it to the casual fan.

dickallen15
11-03-2009, 10:41 AM
Compared to a $12 burger from Levy?
On the Club Level Levy sells a burger for about $7. Its really good, not as good as when they included bacon. As for these bars and restaurants, they aren't going to be cheap. I'm sure at least on gamedays they will be ballpark priced.

LoveYourSuit
11-03-2009, 10:50 AM
On the Club Level Levy sells a burger for about $7. Its really good, not as good as when they included bacon. As for these bars and restaurants, they aren't going to be cheap. I'm sure at least on gamedays they will be ballpark priced.


I think I paid $12 for one at the stadium club. As Samuel Jackson said, it is a "tasty burger." I love it.

One thing to note regarding pricing, the TGIF at Miller Park is priced pretty much in line with what my local neighborhood TGIF is at. I expected to pay way more for a meal when I was up there and was surprised. Beer is priced just like the stadium.

ewokpelts
11-03-2009, 11:00 AM
I think I paid $12 for one at the stadium club. As Samuel Jackson said, it is a "tasty burger." I love it.

One thing to note regarding pricing, the TGIF at Miller Park is priced pretty much in line with what my local neighborhood TGIF is at. I expected to pay way more for a meal when I was up there and was surprised. Beer is priced just like the stadium.front row friday's makes thie rmoney from selling seats that face the field for a premium. hence no need for "ballpark prices" for food in there.

dickallen15
11-03-2009, 11:05 AM
It will be very interesting to see if a chain operates any of the new stuff. I tend to doubt it.

beasly213
11-03-2009, 11:06 AM
I would love if they had a movie theater near the stadium. If I want to go to the movies I have to go out to the one on Webber or River East Downtown.

They would get enough people from the neighborhood alone to fill that place up during the off season.

Regardless of what happens all of this talk is pretty exciting. :gulp:

dickallen15
11-03-2009, 11:09 AM
I would love if they had a movie theater near the stadium. If I want to go to the movies I have to go out to the one on Webber or River East Downtown.

They would get enough people from the neighborhood alone to fill that place up during the off season.

Regardless of what happens all of this talk is pretty exciting. :gulp:

Movie theaters is a tough business these days. One of the problems with having a movie theater there is if they are showing first run movies at the theater the day of a game, parking will be a problem. I don't see it happening.

beasly213
11-03-2009, 11:10 AM
Movie theaters is a tough business these days. One of the problems with having a movie theater there is if they are showing first run movies at the theater the day of a game, parking will be a problem. I don't see it happening.

It's Chicago parking is a problem pretty much everywhere you go. Also if this is a neighborhood focused theatre a lot of people can walk to it or hop on the 35th Bus.

dickallen15
11-03-2009, 11:32 AM
It's Chicago parking is a problem pretty much everywhere you go. Also if this is a neighborhood focused theatre a lot of people can walk to it or hop on the 35th Bus.

Movie theaters are a dying breed. I would think that is probably right after Cubs gift shop on things most likely to be in that space.

beasly213
11-03-2009, 11:42 AM
Movie theaters are a dying breed. I would think that is probably right after Cubs gift shop on things most likely to be in that space.

So basically what you're saying is the southside will never get a movie theater?


:scratch:

dickallen15
11-03-2009, 11:50 AM
So basically what you're saying is the southside will never get a movie theater?


:scratch:

I'm not saying that at all. I am saying there will not be one next to USCF. The movie theaters being built today are different than they were in past. I live on the near north side, and River East which is 2 miles away, 600 N. Michigan about a mile away and Piper's Alley are my choices. There used to be theaters at 900 N. Michigan, Oak Street, Clark and Chestnut and Clark and North, all had a lot more people within a mile or 2 than USCF and couldn't make it. There actually used to be lots of movie theaters in the loop that all closed. We aren't far from the day where new movies will be available at home.

LoveYourSuit
11-03-2009, 11:52 AM
Movie theaters are a dying breed. I would think that is probably right after Cubs gift shop on things most likely to be in that space.


Movie theaters are not a "dying breed."

Yes, Uptown Theatre on Broadway died a long time ago. The new age cinemas with the 20 screens are very succesful if not I wouldn't see new ones going up everywhere I go.

And as the neighborhood poster mentioned, there is no where to catch a flick around the area.

As for parking, You only have to worry about it during game days. You can have the driver pay the $20 at the Sox lot and then go inside the theatre and redeem his/her receipt for a $20 credit towards the purchase of his/her movie tickets.

LoveYourSuit
11-03-2009, 11:55 AM
I'm not saying that at all. I am saying there will not be one next to USCF. The movie theaters being built today are different than they were in past. I live on the near north side, and River East which is 2 miles away, 600 N. Michigan about a mile away and Piper's Alley are my choices. There used to be theaters at 900 N. Michigan, Oak Street, Clark and Chestnut and Clark and North, all had a lot more people within a mile or 2 than USCF and couldn't make it. There actually used to be lots of movie theaters in the loop that all closed. We aren't far from the day where new movies will be available at home.


Who goes to the loop to go catch a movie?

People go to the loop to dine, dance, and drink. This is why theatres in downtown fail.

dickallen15
11-03-2009, 11:58 AM
Who goes to the loop to go catch a movie?

People go to the loop to dine, dance, and drink. This is why theatres in downtown fail.

They go there to see live performances.

People used to go to the loop to watch movies, and there was to be a movie theater in Block 37, but they pulled out. Theaters all over are dying now.

beasly213
11-03-2009, 12:24 PM
They go there to see live performances.

People used to go to the loop to watch movies, and there was to be a movie theater in Block 37, but they pulled out. Theaters all over are dying now.


A lot of the theaters that died were ones that weren't apart of major chains. AMC, Marcus, etc.

If a chain theater opened I'm sure they would do fine.

dickallen15
11-03-2009, 12:32 PM
A lot of the theaters that died were ones that weren't apart of major chains. AMC, Marcus, etc.

If a chain theater opened I'm sure they would do fine.

The theaters at 900 n Michigan, Oak Street and Chestnut and Clark were all chains, again with easy access for a lot more people than there would be at USCF. If a theater chain really thought there was money to be made in a neighborhood they would build a theater, but not in the parking lot of a ballpark.

Lundind1
11-03-2009, 12:38 PM
Melman (Lettuce) has pretty much retired and has turned the operation over to his sons. Their first venture (Hub 51) has been really successful, I am not sure if the USCF project would fit in the profile of what they do. Levy is now wholly owned by Compass, Compass is not in the business of running restaurants. The only restaurants Levy has in Chicago currently is Spiaggia and Bistro 110, these were opened prior to Compass acquiring Levy. Even though the Stadium Club at USCF looks like a restaurant, is operated more along the lines of a high volume catering operation.

Don't forget Levy own Jake Melnicks and Fultons on the River.

Jpgr91
11-03-2009, 12:50 PM
Don't forget Levy own Jake Melnicks and Fultons on the River.

True... I forgot about those two. Either way, now that they are owned wholly by compass I can not see them opening a new concept.

voodoochile
11-03-2009, 01:10 PM
I'm not saying that at all. I am saying there will not be one next to USCF. The movie theaters being built today are different than they were in past. I live on the near north side, and River East which is 2 miles away, 600 N. Michigan about a mile away and Piper's Alley are my choices. There used to be theaters at 900 N. Michigan, Oak Street, Clark and Chestnut and Clark and North, all had a lot more people within a mile or 2 than USCF and couldn't make it. There actually used to be lots of movie theaters in the loop that all closed. We aren't far from the day where new movies will be available at home.

I disagree, they will have to work out ways to cover costs better, but most people prefer to watch hot new movies on big screens.

ewokpelts
11-03-2009, 05:54 PM
A LOT of people see movies downtown. Right after they finish shopping on the mag mile.

dickallen15
11-04-2009, 07:24 AM
I disagree, they will have to work out ways to cover costs better, but most people prefer to watch hot new movies on big screens.

The way their business is run, movie studios get 100% of ticket sales the first week or so a movie is out. longer for the real hot ones. So basically movie theaters are glorified candy shops. That's what they make their money on, and get a bigger cut of ticket sales as the interest in seeing a movie wanes. That's why these theaters that will serve you dinner with seat service are popping up. I love going to movies, but the business of operating a movie theater is something I would want no part of, and unless they think they are in an area where the place is going to be reasonably full most of the time, they aren't going to build one.

ewokpelts
11-04-2009, 07:36 AM
The way their business is run, movie studios get 100% of ticket sales the first week or so a movie is out. longer for the real hot ones. So basically movie theaters are glorified candy shops. That's what they make their money on, and get a bigger cut of ticket sales as the interest in seeing a movie wanes. That's why these theaters that will serve you dinner with seat service are popping up. I love going to movies, but the business of operating a movie theater is something I would want no part of, and unless they think they are in an area where the place is going to be reasonably full most of the time, they aren't going to build one.agreed. the studio/theater split on grosses is 80/20 on week one. it dosent hit 50/50 until the 4th week of release. and few movies gross well past week 4 these days.

A theatre would be nice, but it's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AT 35TH AND WENTWORTH. Too many variables to consider, not to mention that the theater operator peobably wont like losing 100% of his parking business 81-90 dates a year, and small crowds on those same 81-90 dates a year. especially when those 81-90 dates coincide with the summer movie season.

voodoochile
11-04-2009, 08:37 AM
The way their business is run, movie studios get 100% of ticket sales the first week or so a movie is out. longer for the real hot ones. So basically movie theaters are glorified candy shops. That's what they make their money on, and get a bigger cut of ticket sales as the interest in seeing a movie wanes. That's why these theaters that will serve you dinner with seat service are popping up. I love going to movies, but the business of operating a movie theater is something I would want no part of, and unless they think they are in an area where the place is going to be reasonably full most of the time, they aren't going to build one.

They are going to have to modify the business model somehow because it can't sustain at the prices they are charging for candy and soda for much longer, IMO. I realize their costs are going up with the cost of minimum wage and they have to keep people on staff to service the customers who won't agree to show up 30 minutes early just to stand in line for their snacks, so something has to give. Perhaps the dine in movie theater is the wave of the future.

JNS
11-04-2009, 09:23 AM
They are going to have to modify the business model somehow because it can't sustain at the prices they are charging for candy and soda for much longer, IMO. I realize their costs are going up with the cost of minimum wage and they have to keep people on staff to service the customers who won't agree to show up 30 minutes early just to stand in line for their snacks, so something has to give. Perhaps the dine in movie theater is the wave of the future.

It's the studios. Just like in the publishing biz they are making fewer flicks, at a higher cost per unit. Fewer movies overall, with more high-budget blockbusters and fewer nice little movies. But with less total product to spread profits across, they need more butts in seats for the ones they do make. SO the successful ones do great and the less successful ones really bomb in terms of orofits, at least early on.

I disagree somewhat with your point that folks like to see new flicks on big screens. Some of the multiplex screens aren't much bigger than your own 50" LCD (OK, mine is a 40"). So much of the dough comes from DVD/HBO/Netflicks (DVD & downloads), that's why you see big movies, especially ones that don't do so well in the theaters released to TV and DVD so fast, and always on the same day.

It would be great to have a theater on 35th and Wentworth, but I would doubt that it happens. We've been hemorrhaging theaters on the South Side. Zero in Hyde Park, South Shore, Bronzeville, Birdgeport, or anywhere else close in, except for Doc at U of C, 61st and Western is gone, River Oaks is gone, 18th & Michigan is gone, the Fine Arts is gone. That leaves 87th & the Ryan, and Ford City. Period.

ewokpelts
11-04-2009, 09:52 AM
They are going to have to modify the business model somehow because it can't sustain at the prices they are charging for candy and soda for much longer, IMO. I realize their costs are going up with the cost of minimum wage and they have to keep people on staff to service the customers who won't agree to show up 30 minutes early just to stand in line for their snacks, so something has to give. Perhaps the dine in movie theater is the wave of the future.amc offers thier moviewatcher members plenty of concession deals. i routinely get $1 milkduds or twizzlers offers as my tickets print up. and they alway soffer free popcorn on wed for moviewatcher members.

if you want to see first run movies in a theatre on the cheap, it's not hard to do.
you just need to keep your eyes open for deals.
AMC has been aggressive in thier AM Cinema, where it's 5-6 bucks per ticket to see a movie before 12 noon on fri-sun/holidays.

ewokpelts
11-04-2009, 09:54 AM
It's the studios. Just like in the publishing biz they are making fewer flicks, at a higher cost per unit. Fewer movies overall, with more high-budget blockbusters and fewer nice little movies. But with less total product to spread profits across, they need more butts in seats for the ones they do make. SO the successful ones do great and the less successful ones really bomb in terms of orofits, at least early on.

I disagree somewhat with your point that folks like to see new flicks on big screens. Some of the multiplex screens aren't much bigger than your own 50" LCD (OK, mine is a 40"). So much of the dough comes from DVD/HBO/Netflicks (DVD & downloads), that's why you see big movies, especially ones that don't do so well in the theaters released to TV and DVD so fast, and always on the same day.

It would be great to have a theater on 35th and Wentworth, but I would doubt that it happens. We've been hemorrhaging theaters on the South Side. Zero in Hyde Park, South Shore, Bronzeville, Birdgeport, or anywhere else close in, except for Doc at U of C, 61st and Western is gone, River Oaks is gone, 18th & Michigan is gone, the Fine Arts is gone. That leaves 87th & the Ryan, and Ford City. Period.There's one supposedly coming to the south loop soon run by kerasotes.

voodoochile
11-04-2009, 09:56 AM
It's the studios. Just like in the publishing biz they are making fewer flicks, at a higher cost per unit. Fewer movies overall, with more high-budget blockbusters and fewer nice little movies. But with less total product to spread profits across, they need more butts in seats for the ones they do make. SO the successful ones do great and the less successful ones really bomb in terms of orofits, at least early on.

I disagree somewhat with your point that folks like to see new flicks on big screens. Some of the multiplex screens aren't much bigger than your own 50" LCD (OK, mine is a 40"). So much of the dough comes from DVD/HBO/Netflicks (DVD & downloads), that's why you see big movies, especially ones that don't do so well in the theaters released to TV and DVD so fast, and always on the same day.

It would be great to have a theater on 35th and Wentworth, but I would doubt that it happens. We've been hemorrhaging theaters on the South Side. Zero in Hyde Park, South Shore, Bronzeville, Birdgeport, or anywhere else close in, except for Doc at U of C, 61st and Western is gone, River Oaks is gone, 18th & Michigan is gone, the Fine Arts is gone. That leaves 87th & the Ryan, and Ford City. Period.

What percentage of the population can afford that 50" screen at present though. For many middle class people especially ones with kids, a night at the movies is a nice inexpensive date especially if they eat dinner first and skip the overpriced snacks.

A $3000 TV is a big investment. You can attend 60 movies with dinner first for that price and for most couples with kids that's several years worth of dates.

Just because you can afford the latest technology doesn't mean everyone can.

voodoochile
11-04-2009, 09:58 AM
amc offers thier moviewatcher members plenty of concession deals. i routinely get $1 milkduds or twizzlers offers as my tickets print up. and they alway soffer free popcorn on wed for moviewatcher members.

if you want to see first run movies in a theatre on the cheap, it's not hard to do.
you just need to keep your eyes open for deals.
AMC has been aggressive in thier AM Cinema, where it's 5-6 bucks per ticket to see a movie before 12 noon on fri-sun/holidays.

That's a good point and exactly what I am getting at, perhaps season passes with discounted food for people who don't attend first week releases.

Doesn't work for me of course because they never show the captions for a movie two weeks in a row, but for most of the population it would work well.

ewokpelts
11-04-2009, 10:13 AM
That's a good point and exactly what I am getting at, perhaps season passes with discounted food for people who don't attend first week releases.

Doesn't work for me of course because they never show the captions for a movie two weeks in a row, but for most of the population it would work well.before i worked the night shift, i was seeing new releases on average 2 times a week. i just went when there were deals.

the entertainment coupon book(www.entertainment.com (http://www.entertainment.com)) has discount passes for tix good for any show, any day. I also try and hit the free screenings hard.

of course, the biggest "secret" is that they dont really try and stop you from bringing outside food in anymore. you can buy at walgreens a box of reeses pieces for $1 and walk it right in. same box in the theatre? $4
only thing i buy at the threatre really is popcorn, and even then i use a discount offer.

skobabe8
11-04-2009, 11:49 AM
There's one supposedly coming to the south loop soon run by kerasotes.

Opening December 18th.

When was there a theatre at 18th & Michigan? And what kind was it??

beasly213
11-04-2009, 12:12 PM
Opening December 18th.

When was there a theatre at 18th & Michigan? And what kind was it??

Score. Where is it going to be?

I don't recall one on Michigan but there was one in the South Loop near Columbia. Maybe on Wabash?

SaltyPretzel
11-04-2009, 01:08 PM
Score. Where is it going to be?

I don't recall one on Michigan but there was one in the South Loop near Columbia. Maybe on Wabash?

I think it was on Wabash in the building where the Chase Bank is.

DumpJerry
11-04-2009, 01:29 PM
Theater was/is at 9th and Wabash. Used to live in that building back in the early 90's.

ewokpelts
11-04-2009, 02:25 PM
Score. Where is it going to be?

I don't recall one on Michigan but there was one in the South Loop near Columbia. Maybe on Wabash?burnham plaza wa son wabash. the chase bank is next to the old theatre. i think it was converted to lofts.

voodoochile
11-04-2009, 02:51 PM
One issue with a theater being included in the development would be parking.

The Sox like to charge big bucks to park for Sox games. Can the theater afford to opperate knowing that roughly 60 nights a year they won't be able to allow cars to park for free. That will include a bunch of Friday and Saturday nights which will compound the problems. The Sox cannot afford to let go of that revenue stream.

Oh and just as a side note, I read an article today which says movie theater attendance is actually growing at the moment. In fact it's one of the few entertainment options that has grown revenue and attendance during the recession. So I doubt it will be anytime soon when people abandon the theater for the comfort of their living room.

dickallen15
11-04-2009, 03:07 PM
One issue with a theater being included in the development would be parking.

The Sox like to charge big bucks to park for Sox games. Can the theater afford to opperate knowing that roughly 60 nights a year they won't be able to allow cars to park for free. That will include a bunch of Friday and Saturday nights which will compound the problems. The Sox cannot afford to let go of that revenue stream.

Oh and just as a side note, I read an article today which says movie theater attendance is actually growing at the moment. In fact it's one of the few entertainment options that has grown revenue and attendance during the recession. So I doubt it will be anytime soon when people abandon the theater for the comfort of their living room.

History has shown that attendance does spike during times of high unemployment and bad economic conditions. When they get better, attendance drops drastically. Its people spending $60 vs. spending $200 to go to Great America.

DumpJerry
11-04-2009, 03:34 PM
burnham plaza wa son wabash. the chase bank is next to the old theatre. i think it was converted to lofts.
One and the same building. It was converted into condos from rentals. Not a loft building. I was the YMCA over 100 years ago with several thousand small rooms. Immigrants arriving in Chicago would stay there until they got on their feet and found an apartment so they could send for the rest of the family in the old country.

skobabe8
11-04-2009, 04:01 PM
Score. Where is it going to be?

I don't recall one on Michigan but there was one in the South Loop near Columbia. Maybe on Wabash?

Roosevelt Collection, 150 W. Roosevelt.

Kerasotes operated with a Jerry Kleiner bar/restaurant inside. I can't wait.

www.rooseveltcollection.com (http://www.rooseveltcollection.com)

ewokpelts
11-04-2009, 04:05 PM
Roosevelt Collection, 150 W. Roosevelt.

Kerasotes operated with a Jerry Kleiner bar/restaurant inside. I can't wait.

www.rooseveltcollection.com (http://www.rooseveltcollection.com)

traffic will be hell. but at least there will be a theatre on the south side kinda close to the L

chisoxfanatic
11-04-2009, 04:10 PM
One issue with a theater being included in the development would be parking.

The Sox like to charge big bucks to park for Sox games. Can the theater afford to opperate knowing that roughly 60 nights a year they won't be able to allow cars to park for free. That will include a bunch of Friday and Saturday nights which will compound the problems. The Sox cannot afford to let go of that revenue stream.

Oh and just as a side note, I read an article today which says movie theater attendance is actually growing at the moment. In fact it's one of the few entertainment options that has grown revenue and attendance during the recession. So I doubt it will be anytime soon when people abandon the theater for the comfort of their living room.

I don't know of a single theater within a reasonable drive from downtown (I'm also referring to even the Kerasotes on Western and Webster Place) that has free parking. Even the one on Western (city north 14), they don't suggest people to park on neighborhood streets, but there is still a small fee to park.

People could easily take the Red Line to get there on nights the Sox were playing, or they could use the same parking facilities (they could build a parking tower to accommodate this), but pay a movie theater parking rate if they get it validated while purchasing their movie ticket.

I wouldn't think it would be that much of a problem to have a movie theater there even when the Sox were at home...Hey, perhaps after those Friday night games, fans would stick around for the late night showing!

beasly213
11-04-2009, 04:16 PM
Roosevelt Collection, 150 W. Roosevelt.

Kerasotes operated with a Jerry Kleiner bar/restaurant inside. I can't wait.

www.rooseveltcollection.com (http://www.rooseveltcollection.com)


Five Buck Club!! :bandance::bandance::bandance:

LoveYourSuit
11-04-2009, 04:31 PM
I don't know of a single theater within a reasonable drive from downtown (I'm also referring to even the Kerasotes on Western and Webster Place) that has free parking. Even the one on Western (city north 14), they don't suggest people to park on neighborhood streets, but there is still a small fee to park.

People could easily take the Red Line to get there on nights the Sox were playing, or they could use the same parking facilities (they could build a parking tower to accommodate this), but pay a movie theater parking rate if they get it validated while purchasing their movie ticket.

I wouldn't think it would be that much of a problem to have a movie theater there even when the Sox were at home...Hey, perhaps after those Friday night games, fans would stick around for the late night showing!



That's my thinking. That would be awesome. Say you go to an awful one side game where you want to leave early, it would be nice to have a plan B being that you already made the drive out there.


As for parking, I mentioned it earlier. Pay the standard $20 Sox cost at any lot and then take your receipt (stub) inside the theatre for a credit towards your movie tickets. So you give out free parking to your"movie only" visitors. Validation would take place when you purchase your movie tickets.

Or the parking tower idea would work too.

voodoochile
11-04-2009, 04:50 PM
I don't know of a single theater within a reasonable drive from downtown (I'm also referring to even the Kerasotes on Western and Webster Place) that has free parking. Even the one on Western (city north 14), they don't suggest people to park on neighborhood streets, but there is still a small fee to park.

People could easily take the Red Line to get there on nights the Sox were playing, or they could use the same parking facilities (they could build a parking tower to accommodate this), but pay a movie theater parking rate if they get it validated while purchasing their movie ticket.

I wouldn't think it would be that much of a problem to have a movie theater there even when the Sox were at home...Hey, perhaps after those Friday night games, fans would stick around for the late night showing!

Most residential neighborhood theaters offer some form of inexpensive parking. It was just a thought. I don't know if it's a viable option is all I am saying. Besides if you're on a date do you want to ride a train to a theater only to have to fight the Sox crowds to get back to the train when the movie ends? Seems a lot simpler options would be available than that and it would be worth it to continue to ride the train downtown to see the same movie.

Frontman
11-04-2009, 05:20 PM
During hard economic times, eating and drinking is something that thrives.

I don't see how a few food chains/bars would be a bad economic move for a business around the ballpark.

Year round establishments is what is needed there. A TGIF type joint like what's found at Miller ParK would do fine around the ballpark.

Yes, but to try and establish a brand new area of resturants during tough times? It could be hard to catch on.

JNS
11-04-2009, 05:45 PM
What percentage of the population can afford that 50" screen at present though. For many middle class people especially ones with kids, a night at the movies is a nice inexpensive date especially if they eat dinner first and skip the overpriced snacks.

A $3000 TV is a big investment. You can attend 60 movies with dinner first for that price and for most couples with kids that's several years worth of dates.

Just because you can afford the latest technology doesn't mean everyone can.

I paid $804 for my 40" Samsung LCD at Costco. Works great. $3,000? Why?

Movie attendance is way down BTW - that's why theaters are closing all over the place. I'd be surprised if they included a theater in the project even though there is a need for one in that neck of the wood. If it was included it would be the closest one to my house by far. Right now it's 87th and the Ryan, Ford City - both usually filled with gangbangers - or overcrowded ones with ultra-expensive parking on Columbus and Illinois or the ones on Western and Logan Blvd. Or Webster Place. The last three are a pain to get to from the S. side and are very crowded. So 35th and Wentworth would be great, but I wouldn't hold my breath. FOr one thing, a multiplex takes up a lot of space and really would cut into parking for games.

cws05champ
11-04-2009, 06:47 PM
What percentage of the population can afford that 50" screen at present though. For many middle class people especially ones with kids, a night at the movies is a nice inexpensive date especially if they eat dinner first and skip the overpriced snacks.

A $3000 TV is a big investment. You can attend 60 movies with dinner first for that price and for most couples with kids that's several years worth of dates.

Just because you can afford the latest technology doesn't mean everyone can.
As someone else stated, you can get nice but not top of the line flat screen TV's for $1000 and under now. And you can use those every day. I have two kids myself and me and my wife get out once maybe twice a month. By the time you pay the babysitter, movies and dinner you are looking at $100 minimum.

JNS
11-04-2009, 06:56 PM
As someone else stated, you can get nice but not top of the line flat screen TV's for $1000 and under now. And you can use those every day. I have two kids myself and me and my wife get out once maybe twice a month. By the time you pay the babysitter, movies and dinner you are looking at $100 minimum.

Ironically still cheaper then 4 nosebleed seats (wife, 2 kids and me), one dog & soda & churros per kid, one dog for me, slice of pizza for wife and one (decent - from Beers of the World, not the usual Miller slop) beer per adult.

Might as well stay home and watch The Office in wide screen hi def! :cool:

nitetrain8601
11-04-2009, 07:35 PM
I paid $804 for my 40" Samsung LCD at Costco. Works great. $3,000? Why?

Movie attendance is way down BTW - that's why theaters are closing all over the place. I'd be surprised if they included a theater in the project even though there is a need for one in that neck of the wood. If it was included it would be the closest one to my house by far. Right now it's 87th and the Ryan, Ford City - both usually filled with gangbangers - or overcrowded ones with ultra-expensive parking on Columbus and Illinois or the ones on Western and Logan Blvd. Or Webster Place. The last three are a pain to get to from the S. side and are very crowded. So 35th and Wentworth would be great, but I wouldn't hold my breath. FOr one thing, a multiplex takes up a lot of space and really would cut into parking for games.

As someone stated earlier, movie visits are increasing in this recession. I'm with you on everything else, but a movie theater wouldn't be a bad thing. Thing is though, they probably would not put it on the same block as a few bars.

HomeFish
11-04-2009, 07:48 PM
So this thread, which is enormous, is based entirely on speculation, rather than on things the White Sox have said or are doing?

Wow. We need another watering hole webcam.

skobabe8
11-04-2009, 08:18 PM
traffic will be hell. but at least there will be a theatre on the south side kinda close to the L

:?: I think traffic will be a piece of cake if you take Clark under Roosevelt to their parking garage (coming from the south).

Or take the red or green lines. They are pretty close.

chisoxfanatic
11-04-2009, 08:30 PM
:?: I think traffic will be a piece of cake if you take Clark under Roosevelt to their parking garage (coming from the south).

Or take the red or green lines. They are pretty close.
Shhhhhh, Jason! You're revealing one of the best-kept secrets! :tongue:

Seriously, Clark has to be one of the least-traveled streets around that area.

And, traffic is always gonna suck on Roosevelt.

esbrechtel
11-04-2009, 09:13 PM
So this thread, which is enormous, is based entirely on speculation, rather than on things the White Sox have said or are doing?

Wow. We need another watering hole webcam.

ha thats what you get when there is no Playoff Whitesox baseball, a week between Hawks games, the Bulls in a losing streak, and the Bears being getting a "win" last weekend.....

roylestillman
11-04-2009, 09:14 PM
So this thread, which is enormous, is based entirely on speculation, rather than on things the White Sox have said or are doing?

Wow. We need another watering hole webcam.

The single funniest thread we had going. I used to have that thing on permanently in my office. The water buffaloes used to make an awful racket...

JNS
11-04-2009, 09:17 PM
So this thread, which is enormous, is based entirely on speculation, rather than on things the White Sox have said or are doing?

Wow. We need another watering hole webcam.

Absolutely! Only way to go - Yanks are up 7 - 1 so what the hell else is there to do?

chisoxfanatic
11-04-2009, 09:56 PM
ha thats what you get when there is no Playoff Whitesox baseball, a week between Hawks games, the Bulls in a losing streak, and the Bears being getting a "win" last weekend.....
The Bulls actually won last night! Milwaukee ought to be ashamed. :o:

Yea, it's been pretty uneventful in the Chicago sports world the past few days. Thank god there's a Hawks' game on tomorrow night!

DSpivack
11-04-2009, 10:00 PM
The Bulls actually won last night! Milwaukee ought to be ashamed. :o:

Yea, it's been pretty uneventful in the Chicago sports world the past few days. Thank god there's a Hawks' game on tomorrow night!

:rolleyes: The Bulls are one of the better teams in the east [probably 6th or so].

Stick to hockey.

chisoxfanatic
11-04-2009, 10:09 PM
:rolleyes: The Bulls are one of the better teams in the east [probably 6th or so].

Stick to hockey.
A lower-seeded playoff contender does not make a team "one of the better teams" in a conference. And, it wasn't that Milwaukee lost to them that they should be ashamed of...it's HOW they lost. Any time a team comes back on you when you're leading by 18 midway through the 3rd quarter should make you feel pretty crappy.

ewokpelts
11-05-2009, 07:25 AM
:?: I think traffic will be a piece of cake if you take Clark under Roosevelt to their parking garage (coming from the south).

Or take the red or green lines. They are pretty close.it's a pretty dense area, and the best way to get there is still the expressway. espcially for those that dont live in the city. for me, i'll be taking the orange line to roosevelt.

skobabe8
11-05-2009, 08:26 AM
it's a pretty dense area, and the best way to get there is still the expressway. espcially for those that dont live in the city. for me, i'll be taking the orange line to roosevelt.

For being so close to downtown, it could be MUCH worse. That's what makes the south loop nice is the relatively lighter traffic compared to other parts of town. Of course, with more retail comes more traffic.

But like you said, your best bet is the orange line.

schach
11-05-2009, 09:47 PM
Yes, PLEASE get rid of that LF ramp! It's the worst of them all, and it clearly takes away from the astetics of the outside of the park off of 94 and 35th!

Red Barchetta
11-16-2009, 09:18 AM
Yes, PLEASE get rid of that LF ramp! It's the worst of them all, and it clearly takes away from the astetics of the outside of the park off of 94 and 35th!

I agree. I was hoping this north parking lot/renovation and access was going to lead to a new grand entrance in left field. It makes logical and business sense as it would provide quicker access into the park for those taking public transportation and will definitely improve the looks of the park and help promote it year round and during off days.

With all the $$$ US Cellular has paid for the naming rights, I'm surprised that their name has not been more prominent in the signage. I would love to see a new LF Corner entrance with a similar arch like the main gate behind home plate.

itsnotrequired
11-16-2009, 07:14 PM
Yes, PLEASE get rid of that LF ramp! It's the worst of them all, and it clearly takes away from the astetics of the outside of the park off of 94 and 35th!

might as well. sox wouldn't let you leave through it anyway, calling it an "emergency exist". so now you have one ramp to empty out the entire first base side. if the sox ever "return to glory" and there is only one ramp, it is going to suck getting out of there. i remember it sucking in 2006 and that was with three ramps.

Brian26
11-16-2009, 10:01 PM
might as well. sox wouldn't let you leave through it anyway, calling it an "emergency exist". so now you have one ramp to empty out the entire first base side. if the sox ever "return to glory" and there is only one ramp, it is going to suck getting out of there. i remember it sucking in 2006 and that was with three ramps.

There would be only one ramp on the third base side.

I like that LF corner ramp. It's sort of a hidden gem and saves a lot of time when you're trying to get over to the L without going down the main ramp with the rest of the cattle.

itsnotrequired
11-17-2009, 05:47 AM
There would be only one ramp on the third base side.

I like that LF corner ramp. It's sort of a hidden gem and saves a lot of time when you're trying to get over to the L without going down the main ramp with the rest of the cattle.

what i'm saying is there already is only one ramp on the third base side. the last three times i tried to use the gate 6 ramp, security pointed me the other way, saying this ramp was for "emergencies only". same thing happened to my buddy once.

anyone else experience this? i don't try to exit from there too often but i seem to recall the ramp being fair game in the first half of the season.

DumpJerry
11-17-2009, 06:43 AM
Isn't Gate 6 the ramp behind Section 156 in the Left Field Corner next to Beers of the World?

I leave the game on that ramp most of the time.

dickallen15
11-17-2009, 07:28 AM
The first year the park was opened you could enter in CF. That is now fenced off. The ramp a lot want to get rid of down the LF line is only used for exiting I believe now. They have ticket windows there but haven't been used in years.

itsnotrequired
11-17-2009, 08:13 PM
Isn't Gate 6 the ramp behind Section 156 in the Left Field Corner next to Beers of the World?

I leave the game on that ramp most of the time.

it is open as an exit from the lower deck but not the upper.

DumpJerry
11-17-2009, 09:49 PM
it is open as an exit from the lower deck but not the upper.
That's the one in Center Field? That is Gate 1, not 6. That one only goes up to 100. It's never open. The only time in recent history I've been there when it was open was in '08 when we got to see White Sox BP. That is how they had us enter the park.

Lundind1
11-17-2009, 11:40 PM
Gate 1 was used for BP early entrance and some special occasions. Gate 7 which is a sister gate to 1, is never used. 7 is right next to the doors that the players use to get into the tunnel and now the area is heavily secured.

Lundind1
11-17-2009, 11:42 PM
it is open as an exit from the lower deck but not the upper.

I have used it many times to get from the UD downstairs and as an exit if my dad comes to the game on the EL. I will walk down with him and we part ways there at the bottom of the ramp, never have any problems going down there.

DumpJerry
11-18-2009, 07:36 AM
Maybe Itsnotrequired is confused with a ramp at The Urinal?

JNS
11-19-2009, 07:56 AM
Notwithstanding trying to figure out which gate is which, here is another article that mentions development on 35th and the Ryan.

For those of you who claim to know the business and whether they can raise "equity capital" I would ask why it is they continue to discuss it in public? Because it is out of the question?

http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/1892675,CST-NWS-nephew19web.article