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Moses_Scurry
10-12-2009, 10:58 AM
What single moment sticks out for you for each year of the 2000's? It can be positive or negative, just the most memorable. If you can't remember anything for a year or if you've done too many drugs and can't remember blocks of years, just skip those. Also, we all know the last out of the world series and many other world series moments, so give a moment outside of the world series for 2005. I'll start:

2000: Valentin's cycle

2001: No single moments really stick out. I just remember a huge rash of pitcher injuries. I suppose David Wells calling out Frank would probably be the most memorable thing for me.

2002: I went to more games than ever that summer (about 25), but I don't remember much. Mostly, I remember Todd Richie Sucking. I took my now-wife on one on our first dates to a game against Oakland. I forgot that Saturday night firework games started an hour earlier. It was already the 7th inning when we got there!

2003: Bartolo and Zambrano dueling it out only to have the game lost in the 9th.

2004: Magglio's injury. The Garcia stands out also because of the huge ****storm it ignited here.

2005: AJs walkoff. I was at the game.

2006: The punch. Also, Buehrle getting lit up for what felt like about 20 runs in the first 2 innings against the Cubs. It seemed to be the beginning of the downward spiral of the starting pitchers that year.

2007: Hmm ...

2008: Thome's HR in the blackout game was pretty awesome.

2009: The catch

Lip Man 1
10-12-2009, 11:00 AM
Look under significant events:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=3903

Lip

Moses_Scurry
10-12-2009, 11:14 AM
Well, I guess that pretty makes this thread meaningless!

DumpJerry
10-12-2009, 11:33 AM
Well, I guess that pretty makes this thread meaningless!
No. You asked people what they think were memorable moments. I'm sure there were personal ones like first dates, etc.

doublem23
10-12-2009, 11:36 AM
Any list that doesn't include Ray Durham's catch in the 1st inning of the Home Opener in 2000 is incomplete. That was the single greatest catch I have ever seen at any level of baseball. It was ridiculous.

veeter
10-12-2009, 11:47 AM
2000- It wasn't a moment, but the 7-0 road trip against Cleveland and the Yankees was incredible.

doublem23
10-12-2009, 11:52 AM
2000- It wasn't a moment, but the 7-0 road trip against Cleveland and the Yankees was incredible.

The first game home after that road trip was great, though. My dad and I went on a whim, managed to get tickets in the upper bowl, and the whole crowd spontaneously gave the Sox a standing O when they took the field. Kip Wells shut down the Tribe and the Milkman hit a big HR to break the game open. The Standing Ovation will probably forever be my favorite pre-2005 White Sox memory. What an electric night. ****, that 2000 team was so much fun.

Madvora
10-12-2009, 12:01 PM
Any list that doesn't include Ray Durham's catch in the 1st inning of the Home Opener in 2000 is incomplete. That was the single greatest catch I have ever seen at any level of baseball. It was ridiculous.
I don't remember anything about that. What was the situation?

Madvora
10-12-2009, 12:02 PM
2000- It wasn't a moment, but the 7-0 road trip against Cleveland and the Yankees was incredible.
Yeah, I enjoyed the 2000 regular season more than 2005 regular season. They were just an unstoppable force

doublem23
10-12-2009, 12:05 PM
I don't remember anything about that. What was the situation?

It was the 1st inning of the Home Opener that season. 2 down and whoever was at the plate lofts a soft pop fly into shallow RF. Durham immediately turnes, puts his head down and starts running back completely away from the plate. Full lay-out catch over the shoulder as he's vertical to the ground, all without ever turning to look back for the ball after he started to run.

My description doesn't do it 1/10th justice, though. It was simply incredible. If you remember it, you remember it. If you don't, you don't.

fram40
10-12-2009, 12:11 PM
Yeah, I enjoyed the 2000 regular season more than 2005 regular season. They were just an unstoppable force

When I first read this, I thought you were nuts. The longer I think about it, it doesn't seem so nuts. That was one helluva run they had in 2000 - esp the 7 game trip to Cleve/NY that ended with the 17 - 4 bitch slap on the hated Yankees.

but what a disappointing finish in 2000.

veeter
10-12-2009, 12:16 PM
When I first read this, I thought you were nuts. The longer I think about it, it doesn't seem so nuts. That was one helluva run they had in 2000 - esp the 7 game trip to Cleve/NY that ended with the 17 - 4 bitch slap on the hated Yankees.

but what a disappointing finish in 2000.They won in spite of Jerry Manuel. But come playoff time, Lou out-managed us. Plus the Sox pitching staff was out of gas.

mzh
10-12-2009, 12:16 PM
2007: Hmm ...

IIRC, Buehrle threw a pretty good game back in April of that year...

tacosalbarojas
10-12-2009, 12:19 PM
It was the 1st inning of the Home Opener that season. 2 down and whoever was at the plate lofts a soft pop fly into shallow RF. Durham immediately turnes, puts his head down and starts running back completely away from the plate. Full lay-out catch over the shoulder as he's vertical to the ground, all without ever turning to look back for the ball after he started to run.

My description doesn't do it 1/10th justice, though. It was simply incredible. If you remember it, you remember it. If you don't, you don't.
I remember it! Awesome catch. Also, the weather that night (yes, it was a night game) was outstanding. 70ish as I recall it. Haven't had an opening day nearly that nice since.

tacosalbarojas
10-12-2009, 12:21 PM
IIRC, Buehrle threw a pretty good game back in April of that year...

Thome hit a pretty big HR in September of that year too...not to mention BBBJ downing 41 batters in a row, tying Jim Barr's MLB record at the time.

tacosalbarojas
10-12-2009, 12:22 PM
The first game home after that road trip was great, though. My dad and I went on a whim, managed to get tickets in the upper bowl, and the whole crowd spontaneously gave the Sox a standing O when they took the field. Kip Wells shut down the Tribe and the Milkman hit a big HR to break the game open. The Standing Ovation will probably forever be my favorite pre-2005 White Sox memory. What an electric night. ****, that 2000 team was so much fun.
Definitely one of my favorite non 2005 games of all time to have attended.

doublem23
10-12-2009, 12:23 PM
When I first read this, I thought you were nuts. The longer I think about it, it doesn't seem so nuts. That was one helluva run they had in 2000 - esp the 7 game trip to Cleve/NY that ended with the 17 - 4 bitch slap on the hated Yankees.

but what a disappointing finish in 2000.

The Sox cooled off an played .500ish ball in the 2nd half, IIRC, but the 1st half of the season, they flat out dominated the American League. The pitching staff was OK, a lot of guys pitched over their heads, but the offense they had was berserk. They averaged over 6 runs per game, and came within striking distance of 1,000 runs that year. The lineup was absolutely insane, Frank had his best post-1994 year, Maggs, Caballo, and PK were all up and coming stars, Durham and Valentin were in their primes, Perry had a huge year out of nowhere, and the late season acquisition of Charles Johnson gave them hands down the best offensive lineup I can ever recall in my lifetime (with an argument to be made for prime 2006 Sox, too).

The sweep in the ALDS hurt for a long, long time. Even with the 2005 Sox exorcising this franchises demons, I still get sad thinking about what could have been in 2000.

veeter
10-12-2009, 12:27 PM
The first game home after that road trip was great, though. My dad and I went on a whim, managed to get tickets in the upper bowl, and the whole crowd spontaneously gave the Sox a standing O when they took the field. Kip Wells shut down the Tribe and the Milkman hit a big HR to break the game open. The Standing Ovation will probably forever be my favorite pre-2005 White Sox memory. What an electric night. ****, that 2000 team was so much fun.Ya know, my wife and I were at that game. The park was buzzing before the game. You couldn't help talking to people you didn't even know, because the team was so dominating. Kip was great that night.

fram40
10-12-2009, 12:33 PM
The Sox cooled off an played .500ish ball in the 2nd half, IIRC, but the 1st half of the season, they flat out dominated the American League. The pitching staff was OK, a lot of guys pitched over their heads, but the offense they had was berserk. They averaged over 6 runs per game, and came within striking distance of 1,000 runs that year. The lineup was absolutely insane, Frank had his best post-1994 year, Maggs, Caballo, and PK were all up and coming stars, Durham and Valentin were in their primes, Perry had a huge year out of nowhere, and the late season acquisition of Charles Johnson gave them hands down the best offensive lineup I can ever recall in my lifetime (with an argument to be made for prime 2006 Sox, too).

The sweep in the ALDS hurt for a long, long time. Even with the 2005 Sox exorcising this franchises demons, I still get sad thinking about what could have been in 2000.

I think I jinxed them. I bet a co-worker that Rocky Biddle would win two games in the World Series (long story).

2000 ended up as probably the most disappointing team in my life - and I can remember back to the 1970 team that lost 106 games. But the starting staff was underwhelming - to say the least - by the time the ALDS rolled around.

Zisk77
10-12-2009, 01:22 PM
IIRC, Buehrle threw a pretty good game back in April of that year...


Bobby did something amazing for 41 consecutive batters but I forgot what that was?

Huisj
10-12-2009, 02:05 PM
I remember a June 2000 home game against the Yankees where Carlos Lee led off the 9th with a game tying homer off Rivera, and then the Sox eventually won it on a broken bat bloop RBI basehit by Valentin. I had just gotten home from work during the 8th inning and got to see the exciting finish.

Lip Man 1
10-12-2009, 03:53 PM
2000 was a disappointing finish because four starting pitchers got hurt in the second half at one time or another. Two were hurt before the trade deadline yet Ron Schueler refused to trade any of his "can't miss kids" for pitching help.

He was also somewhat shackled because both Curt Schilling and Mike Mussina said they wouldn't play for the Sox.

Lip

Zisk77
10-12-2009, 04:59 PM
How about Colon blowing away Barry Bonds with 3 consecutive at bats with nothing but heat. just overpowering him! But then he was out of gas in the ninth one out inf single by Durham and Boom Bonds goes deep tie game. pedro feliz GS.

WhiteSox5187
10-12-2009, 05:10 PM
The Sox cooled off an played .500ish ball in the 2nd half, IIRC, but the 1st half of the season, they flat out dominated the American League. The pitching staff was OK, a lot of guys pitched over their heads, but the offense they had was berserk. They averaged over 6 runs per game, and came within striking distance of 1,000 runs that year. The lineup was absolutely insane, Frank had his best post-1994 year, Maggs, Caballo, and PK were all up and coming stars, Durham and Valentin were in their primes, Perry had a huge year out of nowhere, and the late season acquisition of Charles Johnson gave them hands down the best offensive lineup I can ever recall in my lifetime (with an argument to be made for prime 2006 Sox, too).

The sweep in the ALDS hurt for a long, long time. Even with the 2005 Sox exorcising this franchises demons, I still get sad thinking about what could have been in 2000.

I think I look at the 2000 team the way my dad looks at the '77 team. That team really wasn't that good, but they could hit the hell out of the ball and in the first half had some guys pitching way over their heads. Really it was the injuries that did that team in, but they weren't exactly a marvelous defensive team (as I recall, the numbers might prove me wrong, but I can't imagine a left side consisting of Jose Valentin and Herbert Perry as lighting the world on fire). They could just flat out hit and were a fun team to watch. I was surprised they went out so soon, but to be honest I wasn't shocked.

2003 was another fun year up until that series in Minnesota and really helped get back into baseball as I took a few years off just not paying attention (it was a phase). But with both us and the Cubs in first place for most of that year, it was a hell of a fun time. I really thought we'd pull it out and with our pitching do some damage in the playoffs. Alas...that god damned series in the Metrodome.

TDog
10-12-2009, 05:14 PM
They won in spite of Jerry Manuel. But come playoff time, Lou out-managed us. Plus the Sox pitching staff was out of gas.

Piniella outmanaged Manuel by telling his pitchers to hold Thomas hitless. Piniella is overrated as a manager. His players played well, but the only move he made that made a difference was calling for the squeeze toward Thomas with the bases loaded and none out at the end of Game 3. He said later that he knew it would win the game because even if Thomas fielded the ball, he wouldn't be able to throw accurately to home. And he was right.

Piniella looked like a genius because the White Sox didn't hit and, except for Baldwin in Game 3, didn't pitch well.

The Sox didn't have much of anything left after Labor Day, when they scored nine runs in the first and had to come from behind with two runs in the bottom of the eighth to beat the Angels 13-12. They went 13-13 the rest of the way, going into inexplicable hitting droughts, losing low-scoring games between a few wins with the team scoring in double digits. But still ended up with the league's best record with the Yankees losing 15 of their last 18 games, before capturing their most recent World Series title.

For 2007, some might believe the Mark Buehrle no-hitter was a highlight.

Brian26
10-12-2009, 06:58 PM
Piniella outmanaged Manuel by telling his pitchers to hold Thomas hitless. Piniella is overrated as a manager. His players played well, but the only move he made that made a difference was calling for the squeeze toward Thomas with the bases loaded and none out at the end of Game 3. He said later that he knew it would win the game because even if Thomas fielded the ball, he wouldn't be able to throw accurately to home. And he was right.

Piniella looked like a genius because the White Sox didn't hit and, except for Baldwin in Game 3, didn't pitch well.

Piniella also called time to go out and talk to Mike Cameron at first base during Game 1, which flustered the Sox pitcher on the mound at the time. Gandhi sat on his hands in the dugout and watched the meltdown, typical of his tenure on the South Side. Years later, Hawk would say at Soxfest that Piniella told Cameron what he was going to order for dinner that night.

october23sp
10-12-2009, 07:18 PM
My 14th birthday.

TDog
10-12-2009, 07:34 PM
Piniella also called time to go out and talk to Mike Cameron at first base during Game 1, which flustered the Sox pitcher on the mound at the time. Gandhi sat on his hands in the dugout and watched the meltdown, typical of his tenure on the South Side. Years later, Hawk would say at Soxfest that Piniella told Cameron what he was going to order for dinner that night.

Piniella told reporters after the game that he told Cameron to "buy Cisco." I think that moment was overrated, though.

HomeFish
10-12-2009, 07:44 PM
I was at the AJ walkoff game with my father. It's something I will always remember.

But, come on guys, there was something else that happened in 2005 that was even more memorable...

C-Dawg
10-12-2009, 08:09 PM
The Sox didn't have much of anything left after Labor Day...

I was just telling a friend about 2000, and I described them as "sleepwalking" through September. That's how I remember it. Didn't they go winless after the clincher in Minny (a loss that night too)?

MarkZ35
10-12-2009, 08:59 PM
How about Colon blowing away Barry Bonds with 3 consecutive at bats with nothing but heat. just overpowering him! But then he was out of gas in the ninth one out inf single by Durham and Boom Bonds goes deep tie game. pedro feliz GS.
I remember that crystal clear. Bonds had no chance on the first three ab's like you said but Colon tried to challenge him one too many times.

doublem23
10-12-2009, 09:02 PM
I was just telling a friend about 2000, and I described them as "sleepwalking" through September. That's how I remember it. Didn't they go winless after the clincher in Minny (a loss that night too)?

After they lost the clincher, they went 2-5 and looked terrible down the last week of the season. Seattle, meanwhile, was in a dogfight with the A's for the division and both had the Indians nipping at their heels in the Wild Card.

Still, the offense absolutely disappeared in that ALDS, the Sox hit a collective .185/.300/.626 that series. The pitching wasn't great, but it should have been enough to win if they'd hit like they did all year. I still remember when Kelly Wunsch threw that dribbler back to the mound into RF to start the 9th. Worst feeling I've probably ever had in any baseball-related situation. I knew it was over then.

Lip Man 1
10-12-2009, 09:07 PM
The Wunsch play as I recall was a line shot off his chest that knocked him completely off balance.

Manager Gandhi sat on his hands on the suicide squeeze by Guillen which won the series for Seattle. Guillen clearly stepped on to the plate to get the bunt down (just saw the footage again recently), nothing from the White Sox.

The pitcher in game #1 who gave up Martinez's extra inning home run after Piniella came out to talk to Cameron was Keith Foulke.

Lip

Brian26
10-12-2009, 09:14 PM
Manager Gandhi sat on his hands on the suicide squeeze by Guillen which won the series for Seattle. Guillen clearly stepped on to the plate to get the bunt down (just saw the footage again recently), nothing from the White Sox.

The only defense of Manual on that one is that it is really hard to go out and argue a call on a series-ending/season-ending play on enemy turf when the other team is mobbing each other on the field. The umpires were walking off the field. The series was lost by that point anyway.

soxfanreggie
10-12-2009, 10:17 PM
Well, I guess that pretty makes this thread meaningless!

No, I don't think it is meaningless because there could be people that have other things on their mind that are different than the author of that piece.

If there was another recent thread on this, I could see not having this one. However, I don't see a recent thread on this.

My own: the final out on 10/26/05 and the joy from that moment on...

doublem23
10-12-2009, 10:19 PM
Manager Gandhi sat on his hands on the suicide squeeze by Guillen which won the series for Seattle. Guillen clearly stepped on to the plate to get the bunt down (just saw the footage again recently), nothing from the White Sox.

What would that have possibly accomplished? There's no IR in baseball, if it wasn't called at the plate, Manuel could have argued until he was blue in the face and nothing would have happened, other than making a fool of himself.

Lip Man 1
10-13-2009, 10:49 AM
It could have been appealed to the first or third base umpire who had a better view putting the onus on them. If they said in essence 'no he didn't' than with the replay on TV it makes them look like fools.

Instead they were taken off the hook by Manager Gandhi not doing anything.

I understand it probably wouldn't have changed a damn thing but at that point you try what you can. They blew the call, period, they should be held responsible for it.

Lip

TommyJohn
10-13-2009, 12:29 PM
Manuel gets a bad rap. I don't buy that they won "in spite" of him in 2000. The pitching staff was shredded by the time the ALDS rolled around. In 2001 it was the same problem.

For me, the decade's most memorable moment came on October 16, 2005, in the TOP of the 9th inning in Game 5 at Anaheim. The Sox got two insurance runs, and after the second one, AJ stood on base and pumped his fist. When I saw that, it suddenly hit me like a ton of bricks, just a huge revelation. I thought to myself "Oh, my God! They're going to win! They are going to go to the World Series!" Nothing topped that moment for me, not even when they actually won it all, because by that time I expected them to win it.

doublem23
10-13-2009, 12:44 PM
It could have been appealed to the first or third base umpire who had a better view putting the onus on them. If they said in essence 'no he didn't' than with the replay on TV it makes them look like fools.

Instead they were taken off the hook by Manager Gandhi not doing anything.

I understand it probably wouldn't have changed a damn thing but at that point you try what you can. They blew the call, period, they should be held responsible for it.

Lip

Whatever, this is stupid argument, yes they blew that call, but there was less than a zero percent chance it gets turned, I don't if JM had Reinsdorf call Bud Selig himself to personally review it, that series was over. Stop pretending like the Sox lost that series because Manuel mismanaged it, they lost because their offense, the best in the A.L. that year, didn't show up for 3 games. Anything else is superfluous (and rather petty).

eastchicagosoxfan
10-13-2009, 12:53 PM
[QUOTE=veeter;2369339]2000- It wasn't a moment, but the 7-0 road trip against Cleveland and the Yankees was incredible.[/QUOTE
Ditto. Those were two incredible series.

Lip Man 1
10-13-2009, 02:19 PM
Ummm Double where do I say they lost the series because of it?

I think you're assuming things again. :?:

I do say that Manager Gandhi was a bad manager however, not only in that series but in his Sox career...anyone who makes a statement that "the first half of the season is for playing everyone, the second half is for winning," then makes a stating pitcher change in New York because "we won the first two games" deserves all the scorn that can be heaped upon him until the one doing the scorning get a sore throat.

Lip

Dibbs
10-13-2009, 02:26 PM
2000- It wasn't a moment, but the 7-0 road trip against Cleveland and the Yankees was incredible.

That was almost ten years ago! I remember it like it was a few months back. Time goes fast.

TDog
10-13-2009, 05:22 PM
Whatever, this is stupid argument, yes they blew that call, but there was less than a zero percent chance it gets turned, I don't if JM had Reinsdorf call Bud Selig himself to personally review it, that series was over. Stop pretending like the Sox lost that series because Manuel mismanaged it, they lost because their offense, the best in the A.L. that year, didn't show up for 3 games. Anything else is superfluous (and rather petty).

Oddly enough, it seemed a majority of Sox fans at the time insisted the Sox lost because Manuel was outmanaged. It may be one of the factors leading many in the Chicago media to simply assume the Cubs would win the World Series with Piniella at the helm -- that and the fact that the White Sox had proven that winning the World Series in the 21st century wasn't so difficult (how could it be if the White Sox did it in 2005?). Considering the experience and poise of Keith Foulke, I don't believe Piniella calling time to talk to Cameron rattled the Sox pitcher, but the call for the squeeze was a good move.

The Sox lost the 2000 ALDS because the middle of their lineup didn't hit. All those popups with men on base haunted me for years.

There are plenty of memorable moments 2000-2009. But on the top of the list has to be Uribe with a bullet throw to Konerko to end the 2005 season five years and a couple of weeks after Piniella was given too much credit for outmanaging Manuel.

Foulke You
10-13-2009, 05:23 PM
I do say that Manager Gandhi was a bad manager however, not only in that series but in his Sox career...anyone who makes a statement that "the first half of the season is for playing everyone, the second half is for winning," then makes a stating pitcher change in New York because "we won the first two games" deserves all the scorn that can be heaped upon him until the one doing the scorning get a sore throat.

Lip
Agreed Lip. Manuel had plenty of talent to win here, especially in 2003 and he deserves all the criticism Sox fans can dish out. Besides the excellent points you made, Manuel's stubborn refusal to move Royce Clayton out of the starting lineup for the better part of three seasons was inexcusable. Despite Royce hitting under .200 in the first half of every season, having a bad attitude, and playing uninspired defense, he was trotted out there every day. It wasn't until Royce made Manuel look like a fool by sitting in the dugout with no shoes on when he was called to pinch run did the skids get greased for his departure. Also, don't even get me started on Julio Ramirez starting in CF for what seemed like an eternity. When we had Clayton and Julio Ramirez back to back in the lineup, it was like having two pitchers batting 8 and 9.

Manuel also had a quick hook for all of our starting pitchers no matter how dominating they were that night. If you were anywhere close to 100 pitches in the 6th inning, you simply got the hook no matter what. The four complete games in the 2005 ALCS would simply have never happened under Manuel's watch.

Foulke You
10-13-2009, 05:30 PM
Considering the experience and poise of Keith Foulke, I don't believe Piniella calling time to talk to Cameron rattled the Sox pitcher, but the call for the squeeze was a good move.

The Sox lost the 2000 ALDS because the middle of their lineup didn't hit. All those popups with men on base haunted me for years.

Keith was only in his 2nd full year in the big leagues in 2000 and it was his first ever playoff series. He was still green and I was at the game and it seemed to visibly upset him when Pinella came out. The body language was that of someone who was very annoyed. I'm not saying it caused Foulke to blow it, but it could have broke his concentration.

You are correct in your statement about the offense losing that series though. The pitching was there but the Sox showed their inexperience by being over anxious at the plate. I still have nightmares from all the pop ups Valentin, Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko, and Lee hit in that series. I was at both Game 1 and 2 at Comiskey Park and when we blew Game 2, it was a silent exodus leaving the ballpark. Everyone knew the series was not coming back to Chicago.

C-Dawg
10-13-2009, 07:44 PM
...then makes a stating pitcher change in New York because "we won the first two games" deserves all the scorn that can be heaped upon him

I've mentioned it before, but its worth repeating in this thread. I was in Detroit a night or two later for a couple Sox games at Comerica Park; Buehrle pitched in Game 1 and Jon Garland in game 2. The Sox were in 1st and a LOT of fans had made the drive up from Chicago and all night long there was a group of guys heckling JM from their seats behind the Sox dugout... "Hey Jerry, where's that COTTS guy!?! When are we going to see COTTS again JERRY!!??!!". It seemed sad at the time but it became a moot point a couple years later.

TDog
10-13-2009, 08:00 PM
Keith was only in his 2nd full year in the big leagues in 2000 and it was his first ever playoff series. He was still green and I was at the game and it seemed to visibly upset him when Pinella came out. The body language was that of someone who was very annoyed. I'm not saying it caused Foulke to blow it, but it could have broke his concentration.

You are correct in your statement about the offense losing that series though. The pitching was there but the Sox showed their inexperience by being over anxious at the plate. I still have nightmares from all the pop ups Valentin, Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko, and Lee hit in that series. I was at both Game 1 and 2 at Comiskey Park and when we blew Game 2, it was a silent exodus leaving the ballpark. Everyone knew the series was not coming back to Chicago.

I might have been sitting next to you at Games 1 and/or 2. Calculating the odds makes my head spin, but they would probably be at least 10,000 to 1 because I didn't have an aisle seat. (I stayed to the end before driving home to Wisconsin and didn't give up on the possibility of driving back down to Chicago Sunday night until the season-ending squeeze.) I thought the media made too much out of Piniella going out at the time. Foulke wasn't Bobby Jenks in the 2000 postseason. He had gone from being a failed starter with the Giants to the American League's best middle reliever to one of the league's elite closers. His success was based on his control and poise. He wasn't blowing people away.

I think it had as much to do with the legend of Lou Piniella, which is overblown in itself. There are better managers working in baseball. Jerry Manuel isn't one of them. But that doesn't mean Jerry Manuel is to blame for the White Sox losing the 2000 ALDS.