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Nellie_Fox
10-11-2009, 02:45 AM
Seriously, with all the WSI posters cheering on the Yankees and the Dodgers this postseason, I'm amazed that this is the same board that constantly complains about ESPN being biased toward the east coast and the Dodgers. We're talking about the media centers of L.A. and N.Y. here, folks. The people who dismiss us as "flyover country."

Boondock Saint
10-11-2009, 02:57 AM
Seriously, with all the WSI posters cheering on the Yankees and the Dodgers this postseason, I'm amazed that this is the same board that constantly complains about ESPN being biased toward the east coast and the Dodgers. We're talking about the media centers of L.A. and N.Y. here, folks. The people who dismiss us as "flyover country."

I don't speak for everyone here, but I'm cheering for the Dodgers to win because I want Thome to get the ring he deserves, and I'm cheering for the Twins to lose more than I'm cheering for the Yankees to win. My ideal scenario would be for Boston and Minnesota to get swept, then for the Yankees to get swept by the Angels. After that, the Dodgers can take out whomever they want, as long as it results in Thome getting a ring.

CWSpalehoseCWS
10-11-2009, 03:10 AM
Seriously, with all the WSI posters cheering on the Yankees and the Dodgers this postseason, I'm amazed that this is the same board that constantly complains about ESPN being biased toward the east coast and the Dodgers. We're talking about the media centers of L.A. and N.Y. here, folks. The people who dismiss us as "flyover country."

We're cheering for the Yankees and Dodgers for two very understandable reasons. The Yankees play the Twins, and Thome is on the Dodgers. There's really nothing else to it.

Nellie_Fox
10-11-2009, 03:20 AM
We're cheering for the Yankees and Dodgers for two very understandable reasons. The Yankees play the Twins, and Thome is on the Dodgers. There's really nothing else to it.The Yankees are the highest payroll team in baseball; the Twins one of the lowest. Thome may be on the Dodgers, but so is Manny. The reasons are not understandable at all to me.

You're still cheering for the teams that already get all the national attention, at the expense of midwest teams. I just shake my head.

35th and Shields
10-11-2009, 03:43 AM
The Yankees are the highest payroll team in baseball; the Twins one of the lowest. Thome may be on the Dodgers, but so is Manny. The reasons are not understandable at all to me.

You're still cheering for the teams that already get all the national attention, at the expense of midwest teams. I just shake my head.

I hate the Twins and want to see Thome get a ring. How is that not understandable? The teams that get all the national attention are also pretty good, they earned a spot in the playoffs whether we like it or not.

SoxFan1979
10-11-2009, 04:39 AM
Whatever ........ I hate the twins so I'm cheering for the Yanks so sue me.

TDog
10-11-2009, 04:43 AM
The Yankees are the highest payroll team in baseball; the Twins one of the lowest. Thome may be on the Dodgers, but so is Manny. The reasons are not understandable at all to me.

You're still cheering for the teams that already get all the national attention, at the expense of midwest teams. I just shake my head.

As do I. I loathe the Twins. But the Yankees are the Yankees. They are the original evil empire. Someone else in another thread compared cheering for the Yankees to rooting for Imperial Rome. A Broadway musical cemented the term "damn Yankees" into the American vocabulary.

The current Yankee love, however motivated, appears to justify the Yankee-centric coverage of baseball that people are so persistent in complaining about.

RadioheadRocks
10-11-2009, 04:52 AM
Ummmmm, go Rockies.

guillensdisciple
10-11-2009, 05:28 AM
Ummmmm, go Rockies.


I like this one the best.

Mohoney
10-11-2009, 07:02 AM
I don't speak for everyone here, but I'm cheering for the Dodgers to win because I want Thome to get the ring he deserves, and I'm cheering for the Twins to lose more than I'm cheering for the Yankees to win. My ideal scenario would be for Boston and Minnesota to get swept, then for the Yankees to get swept by the Angels. After that, the Dodgers can take out whomever they want, as long as it results in Thome getting a ring.

An emphatic +1. These are my sentiments exactly.

Mohoney
10-11-2009, 07:05 AM
The Yankees are the highest payroll team in baseball; the Twins one of the lowest. Thome may be on the Dodgers, but so is Manny. The reasons are not understandable at all to me.

You're still cheering for the teams that already get all the national attention, at the expense of midwest teams. I just shake my head.

I'll take the Yankees winning the World Series before I would take the Twins winning a single playoff game. I hate the Twins more than any other team in MLB, and that even includes the major annoyance known as the Red Sox.

WSox597
10-11-2009, 07:11 AM
We're cheering for the Yankees and Dodgers for two very understandable reasons. The Yankees play the Twins, and Thome is on the Dodgers. There's really nothing else to it.

Exactly. It pains me to root for the Yankees, but they're playing the Twins. It's self-explanatory.

I actually like the Cardinals in the NL, but Thome isn't playing for the Cardinals. I want Thome to get a ring, I don't really care about LA.

asindc
10-11-2009, 07:52 AM
I don't speak for everyone here, but I'm cheering for the Dodgers to win because I want Thome to get the ring he deserves, and I'm cheering for the Twins to lose more than I'm cheering for the Yankees to win. My ideal scenario would be for Boston and Minnesota to get swept, then for the Yankees to get swept by the Angels. After that, the Dodgers can take out whomever they want, as long as it results in Thome getting a ring.

+2. The Yankees-loathing is completely understandable, but at least they earned their way into the postseason without artificial assistance. I am wondering if my contempt for the Twinkees will subside somewhat once they move out of their life-sized pinball machine and start playing in a baseball park. Until that happens, when these two teams play each other in the playoffs, go Yanks.

EDIT: Oh yeah, none of this diminishes the fact that ESPN is biased. If you get a chance to watch MLB Network, you will realize just how much so that is.

southside rocks
10-11-2009, 09:27 AM
+2. The Yankees-loathing is completely understandable, but at least they earned their way into the postseason without artificial assistance. I am wondering if my contempt for the Twinkees will subside somewhat once they move out of their life-sized pinball machine and start playing in a baseball park. Until that happens, when these two teams play each other in the playoffs, go Yanks.

EDIT: Oh yeah, none of this diminishes the fact that ESPN is biased. If you get a chance to watch MLB Network, you will realize just how much so that is.

I agree. (I don't think a $200M payroll is technically "artificial assistance.")

The Yankees and the Dodgers both are damn good teams this year. I deal with ESPN bias by ignoring ESPN, not by ignoring baseball teams that are worth watching.

slavko
10-11-2009, 10:38 AM
Not me, anyhow. The Twins may be a hated rival, but they're OUR hated rival, closer to home and they do things the right way. Yanks are evil, rich, and over-worshipped in the national media.

Now, you cute little band of over achievers, do something to justify my faith in you.

Lip Man 1
10-11-2009, 12:55 PM
Nellie:

I don't care for the Yankees but I absolutely respect them and the organization because they have never lost sight of my first rule for sports teams, i.e. 'it's about pennants, not profit....'

I want them the beat the Twins because I don't want the Twins to have success period.

I'll hope the Angels beat the Yankees in the ALCS because I want Fox and ESPN to take a bath in the ratings with no Red Sox and no Yankees.

Lip

TDog
10-11-2009, 01:33 PM
Nellie:

I don't care for the Yankees but I absolutely respect them and the organization because they have never lost sight of my first rule for sports teams, i.e. 'it's about pennants, not profit....' ...

The Yankees have done so much to sacrifice profit, haven't they?

DSpivack
10-11-2009, 01:33 PM
Ummmmm, go Rockies.

I like this one the best.

Then you're rooting for Jason Giambi. There are problems with every team.

As for me, I wouldn't mind seeing the Dodgers or the Rockies win. Don't care for any of the AL teams, except maybe the Angels.

fram40
10-11-2009, 01:39 PM
Not me, anyhow. The Twins may be a hated rival, but they're OUR hated rival, closer to home and they do things the right way. Yanks are evil, rich, and over-worshipped in the national media.

Now, you cute little band of over achievers, do something to justify my faith in you.

agreed. I don't understand the Twin-hate over the Yankee-hate or RedSox-hate. The Twins are the little engine that could, the original grinders, the underdog. I will always root for the Twins before I root for the evil empire or the Roid Sox and their obnoxious fans.

Lip Man 1
10-11-2009, 01:44 PM
TDog:

The point is that was their operating philosophy even before the massive deal with MSG Network put them into that position financially. When Steinbrenner bought the team in 73 from CBS the Yankees were a joke remember?

His attitude from day one was 'we're here to win above ALL else...'

If my post confused you I hope this cleared things up for you.

Lip

fram40
10-11-2009, 01:51 PM
TDog:

The point is that was their operating philosophy even before the massive deal with MSG Network put them into that position financially. When Steinbrenner bought the team in 73 from CBS the Yankees were a joke remember?

His attitude from day one was 'we're here to win above ALL else...'

If my post confused you I hope this cleared things up for you.

Lip

perhaps because Steinbrenner realized that for New York, the only way to profit was to win? Where do the Yankees stack up in profits in MLB? They have to be in the top three.

Patrick134
10-11-2009, 03:26 PM
Seriously, with all the WSI posters cheering on the Yankees and the Dodgers this postseason, I'm amazed that this is the same board that constantly complains about ESPN being biased toward the east coast and the Dodgers. We're talking about the media centers of L.A. and N.Y. here, folks. The people who dismiss us as "flyover country."


There is (or used to be) a sentiment that national media coverage shouldn't be biased. Message boards have always been biased.

SOX ADDICT '73
10-11-2009, 03:29 PM
Look, I'll be the first to admit that rooting for the Yankees has made me sick to my stomach, but I just hate the Twins SOOOOOOO much that I could never wish them any sort of success. Once Minnesota has been dispatched, the Yankees can get swept by whoever their next opponent is, and the ultimate goal, of course, is Jim Thome finally getting a ring (after going 8-12, 3 HR, 7 RBI in the World Series).

And if the point of this whole thread is about our collective disgust over ESPN's bias/adoration for the east coast teams & Dodgers, then perhaps I've just been imagining the way the mediots (even some of our own - I'm looking at you, Hawk) have drooled over the cute and cuddly Twinkies. I feel as though the phrase "They just play the game the right way" has been running on a loop for years.:puking:

thomas35forever
10-11-2009, 03:48 PM
I hate the Twins a lot more than I like the Yankees, so that's a no-brainer. It has nothing to do with the Yankees getting more attention. I really don't care who comes out of the National League, but it would be nice to see Jim win a ring. I'm with most posters on here.

tacosalbarojas
10-11-2009, 04:19 PM
I'd root for Charlotte, but they're not in it...so...go Jimmy, get that ring. Lesser of all the evils in my world out of all the teams still competing.

chisoxfanatic
10-11-2009, 04:25 PM
I want Thome to win a ring...with us! I'm sorry, but Manny being on that team just makes me not want the Dodgers to win anything. I'm also mildly bitter about them sweeping the Cardinals.

I'm hoping for a Halos/Phillies World Series.

Konerkoholic
10-11-2009, 04:27 PM
agreed. I don't understand the Twin-hate over the Yankee-hate or RedSox-hate. The Twins are the little engine that could, the original grinders, the underdog. I will always root for the Twins before I root for the evil empire or the Roid Sox and their obnoxious fans.

Ugh. This is the biggest reason I root against the Twins. Imagine all the "David vs. Goliath" talk you'd hear if the Twins were to reach the Series. I'm sick of it.

GoGoCrede
10-11-2009, 04:28 PM
Ugh. This is the biggest reason I root against the Twins. Imagine all the "David vs. Goliath" talk you'd hear if the Twins were to reach the Series. I'm sick of it.

Kind of like the Rays last year. That's all you heard about them from TBS.

chisoxfanatic
10-11-2009, 04:37 PM
Kind of like the Rays last year. That's all you heard about them from TBS.
At least the Rays had a bunch of good guys on their team, and it was such a feel-good story. With the Twins, you've got guys like Carlos Gomez, Nick Punto, Michael Cuddyer, and Jason Kubel, whom we're all sick of, and they never pull it out when it really counts.

Konerko05
10-11-2009, 04:40 PM
I am definitely not rooting for the Yankees, no matter how much I hate the Twins.

In fact, the only thing I'm rooting for this postseason is for the Yankees to lose.

Noneck
10-11-2009, 04:42 PM
I really am trying to stay away from the post season playoff threads until the yanks are out of it. Not many here were around in the 60's. And believe me if you were, you would NEVER hope for the yanks.

TDog
10-11-2009, 04:47 PM
TDog:

The point is that was their operating philosophy even before the massive deal with MSG Network put them into that position financially. When Steinbrenner bought the team in 73 from CBS the Yankees were a joke remember?

His attitude from day one was 'we're here to win above ALL else...'

If my post confused you I hope this cleared things up for you.

Lip

I understand your point, but the free-spending Yankees have always made big money. To come close to do what the Yankees do with player contracts, almost all other teams would have to put themselves in a position to lose money. In this millennium, the Yankees have had problems putting together a team good enough to win the World Series, in part because they wouldn't spend more money to make up for bad business moves without remaining profitable. There were a couple of years when they tied up too much money on relief pitchers (records with most relief pitchers failling to predict the lack of success in a given season -- it was as if they had several Linebrink-esqe contracts to deal with).

The Yankees are profit-first. But they have so much money to work with that they can usually absorb contract mistakes. And they can spend so much money that next to the Yankees teams shooting for success with smaller profit margins look cheap. The Yankees winning wouldn't inspire the White Sox to spend more money. It wouldn't inspire any team, other than the Red Sox, perhaps, to spend more money. It would inspire the networds to continue televising the Yankees at every opportunity, however.

Of course, the excitement over the potential Yankees-Dodgers matchup just fuels the ESPN and network year-round focus on a few "star" teams. The only baseball games I can see on television, except for local Giants and A's games, involves the Yankees or the Dodgers, with some Cubs thrown in the mix because we know this is their year and all of America's heart goes out for a team that hasn't won in more than a century. The Dodgers might be a regional thing for me, but the Yankees for me will always be what the battleship Bismarck was to the North Atlantic in the spring of 1941.

SOXSINCE'70
10-11-2009, 04:50 PM
Go Phillies!!

doublem23
10-11-2009, 05:11 PM
I don't care for the Yankees but I absolutely respect them and the organization because they have never lost sight of my first rule for sports teams, i.e. 'it's about pennants, not profit....'

:rolling:

The Yankees are one of the richest teams in all of sports, I'm sure the Steinbrenners would scale back on payroll in an instant if the bottom line was in trouble.

Don't be so naive.

CWSpalehoseCWS
10-11-2009, 08:00 PM
The Yankees are the highest payroll team in baseball; the Twins one of the lowest. Thome may be on the Dodgers, but so is Manny. The reasons are not understandable at all to me.

You're still cheering for the teams that already get all the national attention, at the expense of midwest teams. I just shake my head.

I hate the Yankees just as much as the next person, but I hate the Twins more. Why is it wrong to root for the lesser of two evils? The way your explaining it is like it's wrong to root for the Yankees because they are the favorites.

cards press box
10-11-2009, 08:04 PM
My ideal scenario would be for Boston and Minnesota to get swept, then for the Yankees to get swept by the Angels. After that, the Dodgers can take out whomever they want, as long as it results in Thome getting a ring.

I, too, am rooting for an all Los Angeles World Series. The Angels have advanced and we'll see about the Yankee-Twins series. I would actually prefer to see the Twins knock off the Yankees but, admittedly, that seems unlikely at this point. So, I have to hope that the Angels can defeat New York's insufferable American League franchise.

Incidentally, Carl Pavano has been great so far (middle of the 4th inning). I am reminded of the fine start that Pavano made for Florida in Game 6 of the 2003 NLCS, a fact often forgotten with the Bartman controversy.

cards press box
10-11-2009, 08:09 PM
:rolling:

The Yankees are one of the richest teams in all of sports, I'm sure the Steinbrenners would scale back on payroll in an instant if the bottom line was in trouble.

If the teams that play in a particular series (e.g., Kansas City playing at New York for a series in August) evenly split all of the media revenue generated for those games, I seriously doubt that the Yankees would have the same +$200 million budget that they have now. And that type of revenue sharing system (which, as Daver has noted, Bill Veeck raised in many years ago) would still give the Yankees a distinct advantage, just not the overwhelming financial advantage they have now.

Frater Perdurabo
10-11-2009, 08:29 PM
With the Cardinals eliminated, I wouldn't mind a sudden labor issue (strike or lockout) to bring this abysmally miserable abomination of a season to a quick end.

Call me a bad loser. I don't care. Other than the inoffensively milquetoast Rockies, I dislike all of the remaining teams. I detest the Angels, Twins and Yankees. I'm ambivalent on the Phillies and Dodgers as teams, but don't like their respective cities for different reasons. Classless Eagles fans turned me off to all sports fans in Philadephia, and I just don't like Southern California. Also, while I'd like to see Thome get a ring, I ****ing hate Manny Ramirez.

Yes, I'm raining on everyone else's parade. :mad::raincloud::stirpot::booty:

1989
10-11-2009, 08:30 PM
So I can't complain that NESPN spends too much time covering the Yankees and Red Sox because I hate the Twins 1,000,000X more than both teams combined? Not buying that one

Lip Man 1
10-11-2009, 08:49 PM
Double:

In the 70's when George bought the team the Yankees weren't "one of the richest teams in all sports" in fact they hadn't made the postseason since 1964, Yankee Stadium was empty...yet despite that Steinbrenner said "winning" was the top priority and when free agency came along he took advantage. Again this was before the huge market busting deal with MSG in 1988... long before. As they stated so beautifully in When It Was a Game III, "The Yankees went from Joe DiMaggio to Mickey Mantle to Horace Clarke..."

Do the Yankees have advantages? Absolutely...have they spent tons of money and made even more money because of it? Absolutely again...a lesson other owners should pay heed to.

Don't let facts stand in the way of your bias.

Lip

InKennyWeTrust
10-11-2009, 08:49 PM
I say we stop caring about "second love", "third love" and "forth love" teams, and ignore the whole thing.

Hitmen77
10-11-2009, 09:31 PM
There are a few people here apparently rooting for the Yankees(:puking:), but they seem to be a small minority. Most people, like me, seem hate the Yankees and want, more than any other post season outcome, for NYY and Bos to lose.

As far as the Dodgers go, I don't really see ESPN fawning over them (or acting like they're the only relevant team) nearly as much as they do the Yankees or Red Sox. In fact, I would put the Mets and Cubs ahead of the Dodgers in terms of ESPN love. (Maybe that's not the case this year given how awful the Mets were and how mediocre the Cubs were.)

C-Dawg
10-11-2009, 09:42 PM
As far as the Dodgers go, I don't really see ESPN fawning over them (or acting like they're the only relevant team) nearly as much as they do the Yankees or Red Sox.

I agree here. Maybe I haven't noticed a pro-Dodgers bias, but if there is one, its small potatoes compared to the Big 2. Whomever is #3 on their list, they're pretty distant behind Boston and New York.

rookie
10-11-2009, 09:57 PM
I want an LA series with the Dodgers winning so Thome gets a ring. I want the Yankees to sweep the Twins. The bias thing, whatever. Rooting for the Yankees over the Twins is going to change that. Now maybe if I went out and bought a ARod jersey I'd have a problem, but I'm not. I'm going to watch any playoff game if I'm home anyways, so it's not like I'm boosting the ratings for one series over another.

Lip Man 1
10-11-2009, 10:43 PM
I don't watch the Eastern Sports Programming Network much anymore but I've never noticed a bias of pushing the Dodgers... as far as baseball it's Yankees / Red Sox, the NFL it's Eagles, Giants, Jets, Patriots.

Lip

SephClone89
10-11-2009, 11:17 PM
the NFL it's Eagles, Giants, Jets, Patriots.

Lip

Wow, you really just forgot the Cowboys.

white sox bill
10-12-2009, 07:48 AM
Seriously, with all the WSI posters cheering on the Yankees and the Dodgers this postseason, I'm amazed that this is the same board that constantly complains about ESPN being biased toward the east coast and the Dodgers. We're talking about the media centers of L.A. and N.Y. here, folks. The people who dismiss us as "flyover country."
I guess I can see the linking of bias by ESPN via geographical locations(both coasts) but that alone wouldn't stop me from rooting for a particular team. Closer to home, I don't like the attention the Cubs get but I can't say I hate them either. Then again, maybe I'm a bit biased too since I used to live in SoCal, so I have a natural inclination to root for them.

As much as the Twins are our arch rival and it pained me to root for them, I still did just because like it or not, they represent our Division. Hell I rooted for the Packers and the Bears in their last Super Bowl appearance. However I was happy when the Halos swept the Wrong Sox.

white sox bill
10-12-2009, 07:52 AM
I don't watch the Eastern Sports Programming Network much anymore but I've never noticed a bias of pushing the Dodgers... as far as baseball it's Yankees / Red Sox, the NFL it's Eagles, Giants, Jets, Patriots.

Lip
Lip back when ESPN had the NHL contract, a typical hockey week had Washington at Philadelphia, NYR at Biston, Pittsburgh at New Jersey and Buffalo at NYI.

No East Coast biased here!

MARTINMVP
10-12-2009, 10:10 AM
I haven't been a fan of ESPN for a long time now, but I didn't realize just how bad it was until I watched MLB Network for the first time while on vacation earlier this summer.

As a young guy (25), I don't have much hate for the Yankees, so I don't cry over spilled milk if they win. I used to hate the Yankees, but that was only because I was told I was supposed to. Truth is, if any team had the amount of money they had, they would do the same most likely.

khan
10-12-2009, 10:51 AM
With our SOX out of the picture, I root for good players to become angry, frustrated, and bitter at their current teams, so that they'll sign for the SOX at a nice price to make our team better. Alternatively, I root for good players to play below their level, so that KW can make an under-the-radar swoop for good players to add them to our SOX.

I also root for mediocre players in the playoffs to play WAY over their levels, so that stupid GMs from other teams overpay for crap, which screws them for YEARS, making it easier for our SOX to win. It especially pleases me when clowns like Jim Hendry and Shapiro overpay for crap.

I also root against steroid cheaters and arch-criminals to either do poorly, or to get injured.

In sum, once my team is out of it, baseball becomes a festival of me rooting AGAINST other teams and players. Whatever screws the other teams is good in my world.

Moses_Scurry
10-12-2009, 11:34 AM
I'll root for whichever team furthers the cause of making the Cubs look pathetic. Go Rockies!!

Lip Man 1
10-12-2009, 11:50 AM
Bill:

The hockey situation was because of the time factor. Those East Coast games started at an hour that would enable ESPN to show a game then get to Sportscenter at the normal time. They wanted to disrupt that as little as possible.

Once you started trying to show a game from the Central or West times zones it really screwed up their schedule.

Lip

Procol Harum
10-12-2009, 11:50 AM
Nellie: I think the discssion here is largely a generational one. For we older-timers who can remember the Yankee machine of 1947-1964 in a winner-takes-all pennant scenario the sting of NY success is a lot stronger. Our own Pale Hose close-but-no-cigar status during that period (save the glories of '59--which I was too young to enjoy) only serve to supplement the resentment against the NY media and NY money that's caused continued aggrandizement and success over the years.

For those raised up in recent years, divisional rivals have taken over as the object of their resentment. The Twins with their low-budget success in the last decade, plus the near-miracles of their '87 and '91 championships, and the humbling lack of our own success at the BaggyDome (particularly in important series) is especially galling for Sox fans.

But, the object of this venom is not static. Back in the early part of the decade the target was the Indians who had enjoyed such success from '95-'00 while our franchise melted in the wake of the '94 strike (after being so close) and descended into yet another re-building phase.

At bottom I think we all are a little envious (although I think a lot of people here will never admit it) that even the heady brew of the last few years (the wonderful glories of the championship year of '05 and another division title within JUST 4 years (!) in '08) can be surpassed by the track record of sustained success of other franchises (Twins, Yankess, Indians, Red Sox, Angels--and if we bring in the NL--Braves) in the past 15-20 years.

Personally, for as much as I detest the Metrodome and would like to slap the smirk off of the faces of such as Joe Nathan and Justin Morneau, I find a lot to admire and like in the way the Twinkies have been put together on a shoestring in recent years and the way they play. In a lot of ways it's a good representation of solid, ol' Midwestern values in the face of bi-coastal excess and hubris.

As for me, at this point I'm hoping for a Angels v. NL Series, with the Dodgers being my #3 fave as the Nat'l rep.

fram40
10-12-2009, 12:26 PM
Double:

In the 70's when George bought the team the Yankees weren't "one of the richest teams in all sports" in fact they hadn't made the postseason since 1964, Yankee Stadium was empty...yet despite that Steinbrenner said "winning" was the top priority and when free agency came along he took advantage. Again this was before the huge market busting deal with MSG in 1988... long before. As they stated so beautifully in When It Was a Game III, "The Yankees went from Joe DiMaggio to Mickey Mantle to Horace Clarke..."

Don't let facts stand in the way of your bias.

Lip

Lip - The facts show you are exaggerating the plight of the Yankees. Looking at attendance figures on baseball-reference.com, the Yankees never fell lower than fifth in AL home attendance, and only once fell below one million fans (in 1972, when they played only 77 home home games)

This was back when one million was the goal. I would hardly describe that as "empty" when compared to the rest of the league. I would say that even during their lowest point, the Yankees remained one of the richest teams in baseball when you factor in local broadcast rights.

white sox bill
10-12-2009, 01:02 PM
Bill:

The hockey situation was because of the time factor. Those East Coast games started at an hour that would enable ESPN to show a game then get to Sportscenter at the normal time. They wanted to disrupt that as little as possible.

Once you started trying to show a game from the Central or West times zones it really screwed up their schedule.

Lip
Yea good point Lip, but couldn't you say the same about other sports starting times and geographical location? Was SC on at 9PM or 10PM Central? Plus and maybe ESPN doesn't even factor this in, but its gotta be cheaper to broadcast a game closer to Bristol CT(or is it Hartford?) than to haul entire cast/equipment cross country?

johnnyg83
10-12-2009, 01:15 PM
I think it's a stretch to connect one's dislike of ESPN's coverage and who they can cheer for in the playoffs.

fram40
10-12-2009, 01:18 PM
I think it's a stretch to connect one's dislike of ESPN's coverage and who they can cheer for in the playoffs.

I think I should be able to hate who I want for whatever reason. It may not be rational, but hey, when is good old-fashioned hatred rational?

one more thing - **** the Yankees! go Angels!

SOXPHILE
10-12-2009, 02:02 PM
Now that the Cardinals are gone, it's Go Rockies, Go Angels.

Lip Man 1
10-12-2009, 05:02 PM
Fram:

Then why was Steinbrenner making noises about leaving New York for a new stadium in New Jersey as far back as the 70's?

I also have video of Yankee Stadium, June 1990 against the red hot White Sox having an upper deck completely and totally empty. Lance Johnson, Robin Ventura and Carlton Fisk all hit home runs into empty sections with the ball bouncing around without fans.

The Yanks had some issues when he bought the team, that's a fact...that didn't stop him from exploiting free agency when it came about. Spending what was for the time period, record breaking deals to improve the club. Again this was before the record breaking deal with MSG Network.

I'm not saying the Yankees don't have advantages, I am saying those advantages weren't as great when he took over than today, yet that didn't stop him and ultimately that success paved the way for what is now major advantages over the rest of MLB.

Lip

Zisk77
10-12-2009, 05:37 PM
I'm rooting for whoever the hell I want, which doesn't change that ESPN is east coast biased and will shove a story down your throat no matter where its from if it thinks its good for ratings...Favre favre favre Jeter Favre jeter Jeter Favre Joe Torre.

fram40
10-12-2009, 07:35 PM
Fram:

Then why was Steinbrenner making noises about leaving New York for a new stadium in New Jersey as far back as the 70's?

I also have video of Yankee Stadium, June 1990 against the red hot White Sox having an upper deck completely and totally empty. Lance Johnson, Robin Ventura and Carlton Fisk all hit home runs into empty sections with the ball bouncing around without fans.

The Yanks had some issues when he bought the team, that's a fact...that didn't stop him from exploiting free agency when it came about. Spending what was for the time period, record breaking deals to improve the club. Again this was before the record breaking deal with MSG Network.

I'm not saying the Yankees don't have advantages, I am saying those advantages weren't as great when he took over than today, yet that didn't stop him and ultimately that success paved the way for what is now major advantages over the rest of MLB.

Lip

Lip - A quick check of the attendance figures shows the Yankees dropped into the bottom half in the American League in the years 1989 - 1992 (attendance ranged from 1.7 mil to 2.1 million in those years). The team was nearing the end of a stretch of 13 years with no post-season appearances. I certainly do not remember it that way. All I remember is the Yankee financial/competitive juggernaut. Seems my memory is somewhat faulty.

The Yankees may have had issues around 1973 and 1990, but I would argue that the rest of baseball had bigger issues (maybe it could be stated better as fewer opportunities to resolve their issues). The Yankees have long had advantages that have not been available to other franchises (and never will be). Steinbrenner has taken that and turned it into major advantages.

Perhaps it is best stated as the rich got richer - both in absolute value and in relative value to the rest of the baseball franchises. I would still like to see their profits for the years in question (and compare to other franchises of the eras). But we will never see that.

Perhaps the recent Yankee dominance (both financial and competitive) is nothing but Jeter/Rivera/Torre, et al. Best stated as you have to spend money to make money.

As an aside - both date ranges that you have mentioned (early 70s and early 90s) coincide with long stretches of not making the post-season (11 years and 13 years). Maybe New York Yankee fans are more fickle that I have ever suspected.

Frankfan4life
10-13-2009, 03:26 PM
I'll take the Yankees winning the World Series before I would take the Twins winning a single playoff game. I hate the Twins more than any other team in MLB, and that even includes the major annoyance known as the Red Sox.

Exactly. It pains me to root for the Yankees, but they're playing the Twins. It's self-explanatory.

I actually like the Cardinals in the NL, but Thome isn't playing for the Cardinals. I want Thome to get a ring, I don't really care about LA.Same here.

TDog
10-18-2009, 07:03 PM
I'll take the Yankees winning the World Series before I would take the Twins winning a single playoff game. I hate the Twins more than any other team in MLB, and that even includes the major annoyance known as the Red Sox.

But the Twins beating the Yankees in the ALDS would have been good for baseball -- bad for ESPN and Fox who don't promote many teams other than the Yankees, but good for baseball in general.

It goes back to the original post. It doesn't really matter who you root for. But you really don't have any position to complain about Yankee bias in the national media if you were pulling for the Yankees over the Twins because the Yankees winning just ended up perpetuating the bias. I hate the Twins, too, but I would much rather the Angels had played their first two ALCS games in Anaheim to head out to the Metrodome where they seem suited to play with a centerfielder who has logged some quality time there.

chisox616
10-18-2009, 10:50 PM
Let's say the Twins lost game 163 & Detroit went on to play the Yankees in the ALDS. Would everyone still have rooted for the Yankees?

asindc
10-19-2009, 09:49 AM
Let's say the Twins lost game 163 & Detroit went on to play the Yankees in the ALDS. Would everyone still have rooted for the Yankees?

I would not have. It was all about not wanting Minny to win because I think playing in an artificial environment for baseball makes them less deserving.

Mohoney
10-19-2009, 07:58 PM
Let's say the Twins lost game 163 & Detroit went on to play the Yankees in the ALDS. Would everyone still have rooted for the Yankees?

I would have probably rooted for Detroit.

sullythered
10-19-2009, 08:17 PM
I would have probably rooted for Detroit.
Me too.

My baseball team hate list goes like this:
1. Twins
2. Red Sox
3. Toons
4. Yanks

1989
10-19-2009, 10:31 PM
Let's say the Twins lost game 163 & Detroit went on to play the Yankees in the ALDS. Would everyone still have rooted for the Yankees?

I would have rooted for the Tigers. I hate the Twins more than any other team in baseball, thus me rooting for the Yanks over the Twins.

Yankees > Twins