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View Full Version : Girl sues to get Howard's ball back


thomas35forever
10-08-2009, 02:21 PM
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I still have trouble figuring out who convinced her to do this. Some people have no insight on baseball's unwritten rules.

kobo
10-08-2009, 02:59 PM
I'll guarantee it wasn't the 12 year old girl's idea to sue to get the original ball back.

KenBerryGrab
10-08-2009, 03:10 PM
I hope she's happy. I'm sure it will mean the world to her.

Trav
10-08-2009, 03:19 PM
They should have paid her for it if they wanted it so bad.

Domeshot17
10-08-2009, 03:19 PM
This moron attorney thinks that baseball will pay for her college? People suck, welcome to being the bad guy 12 year old girl, people are going to rip on you for a long time, I hope it was worth it. I am not saying its right, but that girl will hear it for a long time.

I hope Ryan Howard gave her a fake ball. Really, how they would know?

CWSpalehoseCWS
10-08-2009, 03:27 PM
The Phillies should have done a little bit of a better job obtaining the ball. A signed baseball is not equal to a HR ball of that significance. She should have been given way more. The girl on the other hand, SHOULD give that ball back to Howard. She probably has no idea about the historic crap surrounding it, and any kid would rather have autographed stuff from the team/player than a HR ball. So someone told her to do this. Someone needs to tell that attorney, that that ball might play for a semester's worth of college, unless she plans on going to a community college, lol.

voodoochile
10-08-2009, 03:36 PM
Can someone fill in the blanks? Those videos are never captioned and I have no idea what you are talking about.

Edit: never mind I Googled it. That's just weird. I agree, Ryan's 200th isn't worth that kind of money. Maybe a few hundred or even a grand to a serious collector and Howard fanatic, but this is hardly a milestone baseball in the grander scheme of things.

samurai_sox
10-08-2009, 03:43 PM
That ball is most likely fake. The Phillies probably gave the real one to Howard and told him to keep it at home and never mention it again.

goofymsfan
10-08-2009, 04:06 PM
Give her a few years and it will barely be an afterthought to her and will get tossed out with the trash. There is nothing saying that is even the same ball that she caught in the first place.

I just find the whole thing irritating.

cleanwsox
10-08-2009, 04:12 PM
How much does a ball like that go for? It's not like its the home run record ball or something that was super historic. Fastest to 200 HR's in plate appearances?? Geez...For me personally, I'd give back any ball unless it would fetch at least 5 digits somewhere. A signed bat or jersey is much cooler than a beat up baseball that nobody cares about.

pmck003
10-08-2009, 04:29 PM
How about a donation to charity for how much the ball is worth or for the kids college fund, and a signed ball. Considering how much players make today vs. 50 years ago and the relative price of a ticket, I think that would be a good new tradition.

voodoochile
10-08-2009, 04:32 PM
How about a donation to charity for how much the ball is worth or for the kids college fund, and a signed ball. Considering how much players make today vs. 50 years ago and the relative price of a ticket, I think that would be a good new tradition.

I've long argued that Baseball should set aside a fund for buying historic baseballs from fans who catch them. They can afford it and it would stop them from ending up in private collectors' hands, but this one isn't a serious milestone. Even as the fastest to 200 ever, it's just not that big of a deal, IMO.

ewokpelts
10-08-2009, 04:38 PM
My opinion? The lawyer did a little ambulance chasing after the story about the HR came out.

As for whether the ball is fake or not, I think it's legit. Phillie sare going to get screwed PR-wise for this no matter what.

Value of the ball? Maybe 1-2K. But only to phillie phans or howard collectors.

It's Dankerific
10-08-2009, 04:52 PM
The girl is 12 years old. If the Phillies wanted to trade for the ball, they should have contacted her parents.

I dont get all this outrage. A 12 year old doesn't know what to do, someone in authority comes and tells her to trade the ball.

Doesn't matter what an adult would do in that situation. I'd be pissed if my kid went to the game and told me this happened.

Would you guys feel the same way if a 12 yr old found boardwalk or one of the other rare pieces in the mcdonalds monopoly game and some employee came up and told her that she should trade it for a $100 gift card or whatever?

voodoochile
10-08-2009, 04:59 PM
The girl is 12 years old. If the Phillies wanted to trade for the ball, they should have contacted her parents.

I dont get all this outrage. A 12 year old doesn't know what to do, someone in authority comes and tells her to trade the ball.

Doesn't matter what an adult would do in that situation. I'd be pissed if my kid went to the game and told me this happened.

Would you guys feel the same way if a 12 yr old found boardwalk or one of the other rare pieces in the mcdonalds monopoly game and some employee came up and told her that she should trade it for a $100 gift card or whatever?

If the ball had value like the Boardwalk piece, fine, but it doesn't. This isn't Barry's record breaking HR ball, it's Howard's 200th. It just isn't worth that much.

Someone's looking for a payday that really isn't there to be had. That's why I don't think much of the lawsuit. Either way, she's got the ball or at least what the Phillies claim is the ball and that's all that matters. Whether that baseball is in reality the actual one or not it now effectively is from a collector's perspective. It doesn't matter whether Howard has the real and true ball on his mantle or not.

It's Dankerific
10-08-2009, 05:06 PM
I guess I don't care what the value of the ball is. if my 12 yr old daughter caught a Sox Pride T-shirt and someone else traded her for it I'd be pissed off. Children don't make deals like that. They just dont.

It certainly does matter if Howard has the actual ball, its definitely theft if they returned a fake ball.

Again, Children can't make deals.


If the ball had value like the Boardwalk piece, fine, but it doesn't. This isn't Barry's record breaking HR ball, it's Howard's 200th. It just isn't worth that much.

Someone's looking for a payday that really isn't there to be had. That's why I don't think much of the lawsuit. Either way, she's got the ball or at least what the Phillies claim is the ball and that's all that matters. Whether that baseball is in reality the actual one or not it now effectively is from a collector's perspective. It doesn't matter whether Howard has the real and true ball on his mantle or not.

voodoochile
10-08-2009, 05:31 PM
I guess I don't care what the value of the ball is. if my 12 yr old daughter caught a Sox Pride T-shirt and someone else traded her for it I'd be pissed off. Children don't make deals like that. They just dont.

It certainly does matter if Howard has the actual ball, its definitely theft if they returned a fake ball.

Again, Children can't make deals.

I understand and agree with everything you've said regarding children and contracts.

I also agree it would psychologically amount to theft if it's a fake ball, but from a monetary perspective the ball the Phillies authenticated as "the actual ball" and returned would be the one worth money because they authenticated it as real. Thus a collector who wanted to buy it would pay the same price as they would for the actual real ball. So from a monetary damage perspective their is no theft.

That was the point I was trying to get at. The ball the girl has in her possession is the ball for all practical purposes, regardless of whether it actually is the exact one she caught or not. She has the ball and she has as good an authentication as one can have (directly from the Phillies). Thus collectors will treat her ball as real either way. From a collector's perspective, it's the authentication that matters as much or more than the actual product. I believe Ewok can back me up here and if not, please correct my misinterpretation.

DumpJerry
10-08-2009, 05:41 PM
I thought NBC does not allow "Saturday Night Live" sketches on YouTube.

I thought "Saturday Night Live" was not funny any more.

http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/chico-escuela.jpg
Baseball been berry berry good to me.

Lorenzo Barcelo
10-08-2009, 06:51 PM
Lets say I caught Thome's 500th in 2007. Would the White Sox not let me leave the Stadium with the ball if I wanted to keep it? Are balls hit into the stands technically property of the White Sox?

october23sp
10-08-2009, 07:17 PM
1. Doesn't that look like the classic greaseball lawyer you see in TV shows/cartoons?

2. That girl has NOOOO idea that that ball is actually more significant to Ryan Howard. The ball isn't worth much at all. But IF Ryan Howard hits 700 home runs maybe by chance he gets all the 100 balls. 100, 200, 300.. etc.

3. This whole thing makes me want to puke. "If anyone tries to take a ball from a little kid like me or younger than me", BLAH BLAH BLAH. The world isn't on your side, and I wouldn't call you a little kid at 11. I understand if the parents or greaseball lawyer says that but when she calls herself basically an innocent little kid. I want to jump off a bridge.

MarkZ35
10-08-2009, 07:40 PM
I think they basically took advantage of her age and low balled her for the ball. I agree that the girl will forget about it in a few years but that's sort of her choice. Overall the whole thing is stupid but it was a little crappy on the Phillies part by taking advantage of her age.

It's Dankerific
10-08-2009, 08:53 PM
I think they basically took advantage of her age and low balled her for the ball. I agree that the girl will forget about it in a few years but that's sort of her choice. Overall the whole thing is stupid but it was a little crappy on the Phillies part by taking advantage of her age.

Exactly. They could have traded with her parents for some also measly sum and none of this would have occured. But this method was WAY underhanded.

DumpJerry
10-08-2009, 10:04 PM
..well.....they did give her cotton candy!:rolleyes:

BleacherBandit
10-08-2009, 10:23 PM
How haven't we discussed the complete idiocy of the girl/lawyer's position?

They're pissed because Ryan Howard and the Phillies took away a ball that attributes ANY OF ITS IMPORTANCE TO RYAN HOWARD. She should be grateful that she even got to touch it.

Basically, her argument is "Cool we get to own a completely priceless piece of baseball history that may or may not be worth thousands of dollars, but let's hate on and villify the person that made it happen, oh, and our position is completely sublime because we caught it, even though there might be considerable emotional attachment the player might have for the ball"

It's as if they're saying that she was being held hostage by Ryan Howard, being held away from something that is in all fairness (let's be honest) more important to him than she can ever concieve. Also, how can you covet something for its sheer historical importance but despise the individual that made it have any sort of historical importance? The whole thing is asinine. There should be an official policy that any HR of significance be entrusted to the ballplayer in question, not some opportunist idiots with big eyes. That way, we won't have people who became incredibly lucky feel as if they're heirs to something that is completely above them.

One more--this is making me seeth from the inside--HOW DO THEY THINK SHE'S ENTITLED TO ANYTHING? God, this pisses me off. The whole paradox of the girl's party feeling as if they were slighted from something that beyond all laws and entering the realm of rudimentary reason should be someone else's just pisses me off.


It's also like saying: **** you Van Gogh, you're a pervert. But since your art is worth so much, I'm going to hold it hostage from you. I don't like you, but I'll hold on to this little shred of your identity. Because it's mine. Not yours.

voodoochile
10-08-2009, 10:56 PM
Just to be clear, I don't think they tried to shortchange the girl intentionally. I was sitting about 8 rows back of the lady who caught Frank's 400th and they offered and produced a signed bat in exchange for the ball. These kind of deals are common for milestone homerun balls that aren't major records.

Again, I agree that because the girl was underage there are other repercussions to deal with, but offering a signed baseball or other piece of memorabilia in exchange for a ball in the stands is a very common practice for baseball teams, so claiming it was an attempt to rip her off seems silly.

voodoochile
10-08-2009, 10:57 PM
Lets say I caught Thome's 500th in 2007. Would the White Sox not let me leave the Stadium with the ball if I wanted to keep it? Are balls hit into the stands technically property of the White Sox?

No you are free to keep the ball, but it's common for teams to make an offer of an exchange in situations like this.

DumpJerry
10-09-2009, 07:28 AM
A couple of years ago I was sitting near a couple who caught a home run hit by a Yankee. Turns out, it was the player's 100th hit or some milestone like that. Sox security showed up with balls and bats to offer in exchange. The couple held their ground a declined the gifts. After a few minutes, security gave and left.

I was sitting about seven rows directly behind the guy who caught Bo Jackson's home run in his first at-bat after his hip replacement surgery. Three men in suits came to get the young man. As he walked up the aisle to meet Bo, we were shouting all kinds of crazy figures at him (tens of thousands of dollars). He told Bo he would be happy with an autographed bat and ball because he knew that wanted to bolt the HR ball to his mom's tombstone (she had passed away during the offseason).

VenturaFan23
10-09-2009, 07:53 AM
http://audiofiles1.jerryseinfeld.nl/jackie2.jpg

"Who told you to give the ball to Ryan Howard? I didn't tell you to give the ball to Ryan Howard!"

MARTINMVP
10-09-2009, 08:04 AM
The girl is 12 years old. If the Phillies wanted to trade for the ball, they should have contacted her parents.

I dont get all this outrage. A 12 year old doesn't know what to do, someone in authority comes and tells her to trade the ball.

Doesn't matter what an adult would do in that situation. I'd be pissed if my kid went to the game and told me this happened.

Would you guys feel the same way if a 12 yr old found boardwalk or one of the other rare pieces in the mcdonalds monopoly game and some employee came up and told her that she should trade it for a $100 gift card or whatever?

The ball doesn't have that much significance in my opinion. As voodoo stated, the fastest to 200 HR, big deal. This should be a non-issue, except that the point by It's Dankerific makes it an issue. Significant or not, you don't approach and intimidate (intentional or not) as 12 year old without a parent or guardian. Kind of silly to go after it like the family did, but surrounding the circumstances from the Phillies organization, I don't blame them.

mantis1212
10-09-2009, 12:40 PM
One more--this is making me seeth from the inside--HOW DO THEY THINK SHE'S ENTITLED TO ANYTHING? God, this pisses me off. The whole paradox of the girl's party feeling as if they were slighted from something that beyond all laws and entering the realm of rudimentary reason should be someone else's just pisses me off.


It's also like saying: **** you Van Gogh, you're a pervert. But since your art is worth so much, I'm going to hold it hostage from you. I don't like you, but I'll hold on to this little shred of your identity. Because it's mine. Not yours.

Fans get to keep the balls hit into the stands, as a rule. That's why she thinks she's entitled to something- because she is.

I can't see this video so I don't know how scummy this lawyer looks, but I read the story on CNN where they ended up giving her the ball back as a remedy. Assuming her story is true (they promised to bring the ball back after getting it signed), then they ripped her off, plain and simple.

I never understood the point of view that the players are entitled to these balls back. Ryan Howard gets paid ~$15MM A YEAR (or whatever it is) to hit those balls into the stands. I'm supposed to think he's entitled to even more?

In my view, catching a home run ball can be just as meaningful to a fan as the ball is to the player. Howard will hit many more home runs- this girl will probably never come close to another ball in her life.

soltrain21
10-09-2009, 12:43 PM
How much do they actually think that ball is going to be worth? Especially since the Phillies probably gave her back a different ball and Ryan Howard has the actual one.

voodoochile
10-09-2009, 03:31 PM
How much do they actually think that ball is going to be worth? Especially since the Phillies probably gave her back a different ball and Ryan Howard has the actual one.

And again, it's the authentication that matters. That ball she owns is as authenticated currently as any piece of memorabilia can be.

ewokpelts
10-09-2009, 03:42 PM
I understand and agree with everything you've said regarding children and contracts.

I also agree it would psychologically amount to theft if it's a fake ball, but from a monetary perspective the ball the Phillies authenticated as "the actual ball" and returned would be the one worth money because they authenticated it as real. Thus a collector who wanted to buy it would pay the same price as they would for the actual real ball. So from a monetary damage perspective their is no theft.

That was the point I was trying to get at. The ball the girl has in her possession is the ball for all practical purposes, regardless of whether it actually is the exact one she caught or not. She has the ball and she has as good an authentication as one can have (directly from the Phillies). Thus collectors will treat her ball as real either way. From a collector's perspective, it's the authentication that matters as much or more than the actual product. I believe Ewok can back me up here and if not, please correct my misinterpretation.Yeah, the piece of paper that came with the returned ball is essentially the "proof" it's legit.
However, it does NOT have the mlb authentication sticker(based off the video in this thread), which may have been a subtle jack move by the phils. Usually, when a team gets a "milestone" ball or other "artifact", the sticker is slapped on it so that it can be tracked. The exception is usually items sent to the HOF.
But, in this case, the press coverage plus phillies letter equals proof of authenticity.

ewokpelts
10-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Lets say I caught Thome's 500th in 2007. Would the White Sox not let me leave the Stadium with the ball if I wanted to keep it? Are balls hit into the stands technically property of the White Sox?Once the ball leaves the field, it's fair game, unless the umpires want to examine it(pine tar, ball doctoring, ect).

That said, the Sox cant stop you from leaving the park, but I imagine Thome would hunt you down in the night.

fram40
10-11-2009, 01:05 PM
I'll guarantee it wasn't the 12 year old girl's idea to sue to get the original ball back.

as Shakespeare said, "First we shoot all the lawyers."

DumpJerry
10-11-2009, 01:13 PM
as Shakespeare said, "First we shoot all the lawyers."
If you're going to quote Shakespeare, quote the entire quote so it is not out of context. I believe he goes on to say something about the negative consequences of shooting the lawyers.

peridot
10-11-2009, 01:24 PM
From what I was reading they supposedly told her she was going to meet Howard, who would sign it for her, and neither happened. It doesn't sound to me as cut-and-dry as "girl catches home run ball, exchanges it for an autographed ball, and then wants to trade back when she realizes that it might be worth something." A person has every right to keep the home run ball and refuse a memorabilia trade, even though it's a jerk thing to do. But she was apparently told that if she gave them the ball they'd sign it and give it back to her, which didn't happen. She was also never given the promised face-to-face with the player who hit the home run.

If a team offered me a trade of a signed bat or something in exchange for a caught home run ball I'd hand it over in a heartbeat. But if a team dealt with me in such a bad faith manner as the Phillies did with this girl, I'd very publicly demand the ball back just to make them look bad. It wouldn't be about money, it would be about refusing to be pushed around and teaching them a lesson about how to deal with people.

But then maybe her story is garbage, too. Who knows.