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Lip Man 1
10-04-2009, 07:39 PM
Folks:

Two new columns are up tonight that I hope will elicit comment.

The first is an overview of the decade called "A Good Decade," looking at the significant events, individual awards, a paragraph review of each season and some of the unique things that happened from 2000 through 2009 for the Sox. For example the number of managers in a decade, winning seasons in the decade and number of postseason appearances in the decade compared to franchise history are worth noting.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=3903

The second is called "On the Brink," looking at the 2009 season - where it went south, why it went south and what may have been learned from it.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=3904

I hope you'll enjoy them.

P.S. Tuesday after the playoff game I'll have a new thread on winning seasons and playoff appearances in the decade for all MLB teams so that you can compare how the Sox did versus the rest of the sport. Some interesting things I've discovered ranging from the obvious, the Yankees lead everyone, to some that fall under the radar...the Marlins have had five winning seasons in the last seven years!

Lip

Brian26
10-04-2009, 07:54 PM
:hawk
"Lip, I luv it when you analyze."

:DJ
"Mmm hmmm."

Noneck
10-04-2009, 08:42 PM
Lip,

I agree with most of your On the Brink article except you grouping Pod and Dye as becoming basket cases when Rios was obtained. Since Rios was obtained all of Pods batting stats increased. I know Pods is weak defensively and at times so is his basing running but these were no worse after Rios was obtained.

Finally , Pods is not a long term solution to a leadoff hitter but at 32 neither is Figgins. J Danks and this years 1st rd draft choice (the name escapes me) are hopefully the long term solution.

Until today I thought Pods was next years solution but after reading the article that came out today I realize he will not be on the Sox next year. It appears as though he played the Sox like a fiddle saying during the year that he would love to play next year for the Sox and they are his 1st choice. Then on the last day of season he says he wants to explore free agency and wants to be a starter next year. If he would have stated this a month ago he probably would have been benched and that would not have increased his worth. So if Pods is looking for the largest and longest contract and is not willing to give that old home town discount, he wont be back next year.

Figgins is going to be one of the big daddy FA this coming year. If any of the big boys have interest in him the Sox wont even attempt going after him. And if Figgins happens to get that ring this year he may not even care about ending his career playing for a contender and just go for the longest and largest contract. That will not be the Sox.

We can talk about bullpen help, 5th starter, a middle order guy but without a leadoff hitter the Sox will be in trouble next year.

Lip Man 1
10-04-2009, 08:52 PM
No Neck:

This and that. Immediately after Rios was acquired is when Pods started to get picked off more and more. That's a lack of concentration. He was also directly quoted in the mainstream media during this period as openly wondering what his future was and that he was disappointed.

Granted I wasn't there to see how Pods said these things, he could have been joking for all I know. But what I do know is the impression I got from reading the quotes (like you did today) and what I saw on the bases.

Coincidence? Maybe...or maybe not.

Figgins is 31 by the way. Mitchell I think is the kid who was the top pick out of LSU and he may be part of the answer but that's at least two years away. The Sox can't afford to wait. Jordon Danks is a question mark now because of his multiple wrists injuries the past few years. I don't know what his future is, maybe in a corner outfield spot.

Perhaps Daver can shed more light on what Danks' possibilities are now.

I agree leadoff is the key but I also had a recent conversation with the next interview for WSI. This person said something interesting. I asked what is priority #1 for Kenny? What is "x"?

Their answer?

Regardless of position, regardless of where they hit in the lineup they said it has got to be someone who can teach the younger players and someone who is a leader in the clubhouse and can inspire and help their teammates.

I found that revealing.

Lip

Lip Man 1
10-04-2009, 09:08 PM
Folks:

Just got back an e-mail at my personal account from a doctor who is affiliated with the White Sox. I thought it gave an insight to this season and what may have been going on, so I post it here for your consideration:

I have highlighted certain things that I found very interesting.

"Loved your 'On the Brink' column...saw the Sox play 27 times in person (only missing three days of work in my day job as a doctor 80% of the time in downstate Illinois).

Carlos Quentin reporting out of shape led to his plantar fasciitis (I am affiliated with the Sox team docs) but he flashed at the end what he is capable of.

We had the curse of the No-Hitter

Lacked good team chemistry especially when rookie Gordon Beckham along with AJ became the team leaders (I got to observe this first hand in a couple of social sessions at Sox hotels). I saw the different cliques.

I do believe that Peavy is the real deal. How many DL players travel with the team especially when they never played for them?

I had to examine him in Minnesota 9/1 after the Triple A foul ball deal to his elbow. Gave heads up to Dr. Charles Bush Joseph about my finding. Peavy will be the Sox leader and along with Beckham will become the franchise. Peavy plans to move to Hinsdale.

Hudson makes a great case for 5th starter if Freddy is unable to do it . I believe Freddy will come back and be a great fifth starter. Torres also has some talent--saw him do well against the Cubs.

Chone Figgins would be a good fit for the Sox

You really do a great service to Sox fans.

Always sad to say good-bye to a season. If Dye and Rios had hit at all in the clutch down the stretch we would have made it. I believe Rios will bounce back..he runs well and plays good defense."

Lip

Noneck
10-04-2009, 09:08 PM
No Neck:

This and that. Immediately after Rios was acquired is when Pods started to get picked off more and more. That's a lack of concentration. He was also directly quoted in the mainstream media during this period as openly wondering what his future was and that he was disappointed.

Granted I wasn't there to see how Pods said these things, he could have been joking for all I know. But what I do know is the impression I got from reading the quotes (like you did today) and what I saw on the bases.

Coincidence? Maybe...or maybe not.

Figgins is 31 by the way. Mitchell I think is the kid who was the top pick out of LSU and he may be part of the answer but that's at least two years away. The Sox can't afford to wait. Jordon Danks is a question mark now because of his multiple wrists injuries the past few years. I don't know what his future is, maybe in a corner outfield spot.

Perhaps Daver can shed more light on what Danks' possibilities are now.

I agree leadoff is the key but I also had a recent conversation with the next interview for WSI. This person said something interesting. I asked what is priority #1 for Kenny? What is "x"?

Their answer?

Regardless of position, regardless of where they hit in the lineup they said it has got to be someone who can teach the younger players and someone who is a leader in the clubhouse and can inspire and help their teammates.

I found that revealing.

Lip

Lip, I also read what Pod said when they got Rios but he showed by his stats that he was up for the challenge not hide under his covers like Dye did. I still think its not fair to group these two together.

I TOTALLY agree about needing a strong presence in the clubhouse. I have stated before that the Sox need more than the current choirboys to help the younger guys.

Finally, Now since the season is over, at least I now have something to look forward to. Your next interview.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-04-2009, 09:21 PM
No Neck:

This and that. Immediately after Rios was acquired is when Pods started to get picked off more and more. That's a lack of concentration. He was also directly quoted in the mainstream media during this period as openly wondering what his future was and that he was disappointed.

Granted I wasn't there to see how Pods said these things, he could have been joking for all I know. But what I do know is the impression I got from reading the quotes (like you did today) and what I saw on the bases.

Coincidence? Maybe...or maybe not.

Figgins is 31 by the way. Mitchell I think is the kid who was the top pick out of LSU and he may be part of the answer but that's at least two years away. The Sox can't afford to wait. Jordon Danks is a question mark now because of his multiple wrists injuries the past few years. I don't know what his future is, maybe in a corner outfield spot.

Perhaps Daver can shed more light on what Danks' possibilities are now.

I agree leadoff is the key but I also had a recent conversation with the next interview for WSI. This person said something interesting. I asked what is priority #1 for Kenny? What is "x"?

Their answer?

Regardless of position, regardless of where they hit in the lineup they said it has got to be someone who can teach the younger players and someone who is a leader in the clubhouse and can inspire and help their teammates.

I found that revealing.

Lip

Your bolded statement is one reason I have never been a big fan of Konerko as captain. He is a reluctant captain and does not like to cheer lead. He says baseball is not football and you don't need the rah-rah stuff. Well, someone has to lead.

This also speaks to the intensity level that was never there all season; there was never a sense of urgency, either.

The Sox need someone who can kick some butts and take names. Jake Peavy may be that guy.

Noneck
10-04-2009, 09:27 PM
Jake Peavy may be that guy.

Maybe so but when the Sox had the choirboys there, a HOFer, two WS hero's and 300+ hr guys and a no no and perfercto Chicago icon, It was really tough to take over a clubhouse. Hopefully next year things will change.

shingo10
10-04-2009, 09:29 PM
Folks:

Just got back an e-mail at my personal account from a doctor who is affiliated with the White Sox. I thought it gave an insight to this season and what may have been going on, so I post it here for your consideration:

I have highlighted certain things that I found very interesting.

"Loved your 'On the Brink column...saw the Sox play 27 times in person (only missing three days of work in my day job as a doctor 80% of the time in downstate Illinois).

Carlos Quentin reporting out of shape led to his plantar fasciitis (I am affiliated with the Sox team docs) but he flashed at the end what he is capable of.

We had the curse of the No-Hitter

Lacked good team chemistry especially when rookie Gordon Beckham along with AJ became the team leaders (I got to observe this first hand in a couple of social sessions at Sox hotels). I saw the different cliques.

I do believe that Peavy is the real deal. How many DL players travel with the team especially when they never played for them?

I had to examine him in Minnesota 9/1 after the Triple A foul ball deal to his elbow. Gave heads up to Dr. Charles Bush Joseph about my finding. Peavy will be the Sox leader and along with Beckham will become the franchise. Peavy plans to move to Hinsdale.

Hudson makes a great case for 5th starter if Freddy is unable to do it . I believe Freddy will come back and be a great fifth starter. Torres also has some talent--saw him do well against the Cubs.

Chone Figgins would be a good fit for the Sox

You really do a great service to Sox fans.

Always sad to say good-bye to a season. If Dye and Rios had hit at all in the clutch down the stretch we would have made it. I believe Rios will bounce back..he runs well and plays good defense."

Lip

To me the biggest surpise out of all of that would be CQ showing up out of shape. I just can't fathom it from how hard he is constantly working and how serious he is about playing. Very interesting.

Also not sure about the Beckham/AJ thing. Is that a knock on those 2 guys as leaders or on the veterans for not stepping up?

Lip Man 1
10-04-2009, 09:38 PM
Shingo:

My reaction to the doctors comment was that when Beckham and A.J. either consciously or unconsciously started to emerge as the 'team leaders' that some others in the clubhouse got offended because of it.

That would fit in with the doctors comment about cliques.

Just my take, I have no way of knowing for sure.

Lip

Domeshot17
10-04-2009, 10:38 PM
didn't read the articles but just commenting on comments here:

(1) I don't blame Podsednik. He has a chance to set up the rest of his life on this contract and its probably the last one he'll sign, go for it. He isn't saying he won't resign with the White Sox but he is saying the White Sox need to bring it.

(2)In terms of the drama of Dye and Pods, if they couldn't handle it, too bad. To me the one thing that stands out is that if Everyone is freaking out over additions it either reflects poorly on the players view of Ozzie or Kenny to do the right thing and play the right players. Either way I respect Pods didn't take it out on the Field.

(3)I wonder of Quentin being out of shape had to do with his wedding and such in the offseason

(4) I seriously hope we do not sign Chone Figgins. We don't need a 9 million a year table setter. We need a power hitter who is going to hit 30 doubles 35 homers and over 105 Rbis.

chisoxfanatic
10-04-2009, 10:42 PM
(4) I seriously hope we do not sign Chone Figgins. We don't need a 9 million a year table setter. We need a power hitter who is going to hit 30 doubles 35 homers and over 105 Rbis.
I think we already have that in Gordon Beckham. We do need a table-setter, and I think we could have Figgins for less than what you project.

Noneck
10-04-2009, 11:06 PM
didn't read the articles but just commenting on comments here:

(1) I don't blame Podsednik. He has a chance to set up the rest of his life on this contract and its probably the last one he'll sign, go for it. He isn't saying he won't resign with the White Sox but he is saying the White Sox need to bring it.



I wasn't knocking Pod for his comments and what he will do now that the season is over. I actually find it quite amusing how he pulled the wool over everyone's eyes about being in the Sox hip pocket for next year. The way I read his comments, he is now not affordable with his terms for the next year Sox.

I got a gut feeling the Sox next year will stick either Getz, Nix or Ramirez as leadoff because no way they get Pods or Figgins. To me that's more dangerous than lacking that middle of the order guy.

Domeshot17
10-04-2009, 11:45 PM
I think we already have that in Gordon Beckham. We do need a table-setter, and I think we could have Figgins for less than what you project.

Gordon Beckham is a nice player, but in his rookie season he did not even project to hit 20 homers over a 500 AB season. I think he is a great 2 hitter, and could even be a servicable 3 hitter. But the White Sox lack a cleanup hitter. Konerko is a 6th man, and Quentin COULD BE A 4 but we are fools to rely on him at this point.

Again, for everyone freaking out over speed and table setting, the Sox finished with a table setters offense. Top 10 in mlb in stolen bases, bottom of the league in strike outs, bottom of the league in extra base hits below the pirates, bottom of the league in RBIS. We need guys who can drive in runs.

I will say it again

WE NEED GUYS WHO CAN DRIVE IN RUNS. Yes, if Pods goes we need to replace a lead off man, but that is not as hard as replacing a middle of the order hitter.

We are better Off with a 1-6 of GETZ leading off, Beckham Quentin 3 ADDED BIG BAT 4 Then a combination of Rios AJ Konerko and Ramirez

That will score far more runs then:

FIGGINS 1 Beckham 2 Carlos 3 Konerko 4 then the same combo

Konerko is not a 100 rbi man anymore, he isn't a threat bat anymore. He is a solid contributor but he can no longer carry the offense. We absolutely, 100% must add a middle of the order bat or we will not win the division next year. Also should be looking for left handed production somewhere.

That said, the Sox will hopefully address both. You can add the Big bat at DH and lead off in the OF. My guy says Pods WILL BE BACK as he means more to us than anyone else.

Edit: Looking it over, not a ton of impact bats out there. Vlad (whos winding down) Jason Bay (ideal) and Matt Holiday. I dont know if ANY of them make sense as Vlad had a terrible year (sub 800 OPS, fought injuries, under 20 homers). Bay the Red Sox want back, so you are bidding against Boston. Boston spends big in FA, we normally don't. Matt Holiday is a Boras client and our views on negotiation with Boras are about the same as the US views negotiating with Terrorists.

TheVulture
10-05-2009, 12:19 AM
I'd still take Buehrle on the hill in a must win/playoff situation any day of the week and I don't see why Freddy Garcia is not a good option for the 5th starter slot. Between him and Hudson and maybe even Ely, I don't think the Sox need to put their resources into the rotation. You can never have too much, but I'd like to see them re-arm the bullpen and pick up a couple bats first. If the Sox let Dye go and move Quentin to DH, the Sox are going to need some corner OFers who can hit first and foremost. KW's going to need to pull some arms out of the hat for the pen, too.

TheVulture
10-05-2009, 12:28 AM
WE NEED GUYS WHO CAN DRIVE IN RUNS. Yes, if Pods goes we need to replace a lead off man, but that is not as hard as replacing a middle of the order hitter.

We are better Off with a 1-6 of GETZ leading off, Beckham Quentin 3 ADDED BIG BAT 4 Then a combination of Rios AJ Konerko and Ramirez



I agree - Getz is much closer to Figgins than anyone we have is close to a bigtime run producer.

kingpin_rcs
10-05-2009, 01:09 AM
Frank Thomas was not in the All-Star in the past decade?

I just checked, last All-Star appearance - 1997.

pudge
10-05-2009, 02:12 AM
Frank Thomas was not in the All-Star in the past decade?

I just checked, last All-Star appearance - 1997.

Didn't he get totally screwed in like 2000? I thought I remember a year this decade where it was a crime he didn't make it.

Big D
10-05-2009, 02:21 AM
I'm not crazy about 30+ year-old players whose main asset is their speed, so I would not want to get into any bidding war for Figgins (or Pods). I'd love to have Pods back as a 4th outfielder and insurance for Quentin, but if he's looking to get paid like an everyday outfielder I would bid him farewell. The Sox desperately need a big bat (and probably two big bats if Dye leaves). Yeah, having speed and table-setters is nice, but you're not going to compete with teams like the Yankees and Red Sox without having some pop. Competing with those teams SHOULD be the goal, not just trying to win a ****ty division. The problem is that after the Peavy trade, I'm not sure the Sox have the depth in the farm system to trade for a big bat, and the pickings are slim on the free agent market. Kenny's going to have to be very creative. But then again, I'll put our top four pitchers up against anyone else in baseball, so we're better off than a lot of teams.

PKalltheway
10-05-2009, 10:20 AM
Didn't he get totally screwed in like 2000? I thought I remember a year this decade where it was a crime he didn't make it.
Yeah, IIRC, he got screwed in 2000 and 2003.

Gammons Peter
10-05-2009, 10:45 AM
I wasn't knocking Pod for his comments and what he will do now that the season is over. I actually find it quite amusing how he pulled the wool over everyone's eyes about being in the Sox hip pocket for next year. The way I read his comments, he is now not affordable with his terms for the next year Sox.

I got a gut feeling the Sox next year will stick either Getz, Nix or Ramirez as leadoff because no way they get Pods or Figgins. To me that's more dangerous than lacking that middle of the order guy.

He pulled the wool over everyone's eyes? Really, what are you talking about? He said he would love to come back next year, which I'm sure is true. He never said he would play for less than the going rate

voodoochile
10-05-2009, 10:45 AM
Didn't he get totally screwed in like 2000? I thought I remember a year this decade where it was a crime he didn't make it.

Yeah and got robbed of the MVP by the lumbering steroid ox...

Lip Man 1
10-05-2009, 11:18 AM
FYI. Just heard back from a mainstream media source who added some credibility to the doctor's previous comments.

Basically they said that Carlos was thick in the legs in spring training and from a personal standpoint talked about the problems their feet give them, so much so that they had to stop running because of it. They thought it was possible he was out of shape and that caused the issues.

Also said the team chemistry was terrible this year. Veterans got on Getz for saying the youngsters brought energy to the team, that A.J. didn't really work or help with Flowers and that the idea of leadership being provided by Beckham and A.J. was just "eyewash" (direct quote). Asked when was the last time you saw veterans collapse and fail to provide down the stretch like what happened this year, said it wasn't the kids fault and the vets should be ashamed.

Lip

soxtalker
10-05-2009, 11:25 AM
Folks:

Just got back an e-mail at my personal account from a doctor who is affiliated with the White Sox. I thought it gave an insight to this season and what may have been going on, so I post it here for your consideration:

I have highlighted certain things that I found very interesting.

...

Lacked good team chemistry especially when rookie Gordon Beckham along with AJ became the team leaders (I got to observe this first hand in a couple of social sessions at Sox hotels). I saw the different cliques.

...

Lip

So, this is interesting. I thought it a bit odd when AJ seemed to be identified as one of the targets of Ozzie's rant about the TV football game a week ago or so. That's why I started this thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115834) (in What's the Score?) about AJ's trade value. Now, there wasn't a big response, and many people seemed to react with comments to the effect that AJ shouldn't be traded. (As I stated in that thread, I wasn't advocating trading AJ -- just asking about the value.) But adding in this piece of information, is there a chance that there is a team chemistry problem that we didn't know about? And could AJ possibly be traded?

voodoochile
10-05-2009, 11:25 AM
FYI. Just heard back from a mainstream media source who added some credibility to the doctor's previous comments.

Basically they said that Carlos was thick in the legs in spring training and from a personal standpoint talked about the problems their feet give them, so much so that they had to stop running because of it. They thought it was possible he was out of shape and that caused the issues.

Also said the team chemistry was terrible this year. Veterans got on Getz for saying the youngsters brought energy to the team, that A.J. didn't really work or help with Flowers and that the idea of leadership being provided by Beckham and A.J. was just "eyewash" (direct quote). Asked when was the last time you saw veterans collapse and fail to provide down the stretch like what happened this year, said it wasn't the kids fault and the vets should be ashamed.

Lip

I thought Ozzie's comments about Dye pouting and being surly during his extended second half slump were very telling. I was surprised to read it. AJ not being willing to help Flowers is simply pathetic. I definitely expect more from a guy who is supposed to be a clubhouse leader.

Compare some of these comments to things said about Frank through the years. Frank got a bad rap as a clubhouse cancer, but then you talk to guys he helped with their hitting (like Rowand) and compare it to the current group who are supposedly great clubhouse guys but then will pick and choose who they associate with. It's weak...

Gammons Peter
10-05-2009, 11:27 AM
FYI. Just heard back from a mainstream media source who added some credibility to the doctor's previous comments.

Basically they said that Carlos was thick in the legs in spring training and from a personal standpoint talked about the problems their feet give them, so much so that they had to stop running because of it. They thought it was possible he was out of shape and that caused the issues.

Also said the team chemistry was terrible this year. Veterans got on Getz for saying the youngsters brought energy to the team, that A.J. didn't really work or help with Flowers and that the idea of leadership being provided by Beckham and A.J. was just "eyewash" (direct quote). Asked when was the last time you saw veterans collapse and fail to provide down the stretch like what happened this year, said it wasn't the kids fault and the vets should be ashamed.

Lip

So, you're saying that some writer/reporter with "thick" legs and problem feet is compairing themself with a professional athlete?

Noneck
10-05-2009, 11:28 AM
He pulled the wool over everyone's eyes? Really, what are you talking about? He said he would love to come back next year, which I'm sure is true. He never said he would play for less than the going rate

Through out this board for this year all that was written was about if the Sox should keep Pods for next year. Most comments included him as being a DH or a 4th OFer. No comments were made if the Sox would be able to sign him. It was more or less if they wanted him, he was theirs.

I heard an interview during a game on the radio where Pods wife stated that they love Chicago, looked at the Sox as family and want to be here for years to come. To me that means its his #1 choice and a home town discount. Until yesterday I have never read anywhere that wherever he goes next year he wants to be a starter. Also the comments made by his wife made one believe that Pods and his wife would be making the decision but yesterday it was stated that his representation would be making the decision.

Now we will all see how it plays out.

Lip Man 1
10-05-2009, 11:34 AM
Gammons:

No and if I phrased it wrong I apologize. This source was confirming things the doctor told me and that I posted last night about the chemistry issues on the club and the fact that it was, in fact, possible that Quentin did report out of shape and that caused his health issues (as per what the doctor associated with the Sox told me. Although the doctor said he was out of shape.) That was what was meant by his 'thick legs' comments (i.e. he was to heavy)

Lip

Gammons Peter
10-05-2009, 11:41 AM
Gammons:

No and if I phrased it wrong I apologize. This source was confirming things the doctor told me and that I posted last night about the chemistry issues on the club and the fact that it was, in fact, possible that Quentin did report out of shape and that caused his health issues (as per what the doctor associated with the Sox told me. Although the doctor said he was out of shape.) That was what was meant by his 'thick legs' comments (i.e. he was to heavy)

Lip


okay, I guess I didnt understand what you were getting at

Gammons Peter
10-05-2009, 11:52 AM
Through out this board for this year all that was written was about if the Sox should keep Pods for next year. Most comments included him as being a DH or a 4th OFer. No comments were made if the Sox would be able to sign him. It was more or less if they wanted him, he was theirs.

I heard an interview during a game on the radio where Pods wife stated that they love Chicago, looked at the Sox as family and want to be here for years to come. To me that means its his #1 choice and a home town discount. Until yesterday I have never read anywhere that wherever he goes next year he wants to be a starter. Also the comments made by his wife made one believe that Pods and his wife would be making the decision but yesterday it was stated that his representation would be making the decision.

Now we will all see how it plays out.

Oh, you read posts on this site and his wife said she likes it here. Good thing I'm not the GM because he has clearly pulled the wool over my eyes.

Gammons Peter
10-05-2009, 12:06 PM
Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight and I'm sure that I'm a little irritable because of how the season ended, but your comments are completely ridiculous.
You shouldn't base anything on what you read here or what you hear his wife say.

Noneck
10-05-2009, 12:08 PM
Oh, you read posts on this site and his wife said she likes it here. Good thing I'm not the GM because he has clearly pulled the wool over my eyes.

I also doubt he would have gotten the playing time in the last month of season if these comments came out then.

And you of course you knew that Pods wanted to be a guaranteed starter and that his agent would make all decisions.

As I said before, Lets see how it plays out.

soxtalker
10-05-2009, 12:18 PM
FYI. Just heard back from a mainstream media source who added some credibility to the doctor's previous comments.

Basically they said that Carlos was thick in the legs in spring training and from a personal standpoint talked about the problems their feet give them, so much so that they had to stop running because of it. They thought it was possible he was out of shape and that caused the issues.

Also said the team chemistry was terrible this year. Veterans got on Getz for saying the youngsters brought energy to the team, that A.J. didn't really work or help with Flowers and that the idea of leadership being provided by Beckham and A.J. was just "eyewash" (direct quote). Asked when was the last time you saw veterans collapse and fail to provide down the stretch like what happened this year, said it wasn't the kids fault and the vets should be ashamed.

Lip

I didn't see this while I was writing my last post. I wish that I had. I would have voiced my question about AJ even more strongly. If this is true about AJ not being willing to mentor Flowers, then I won't at all be surprised to see AJ traded. And, I'll say it even more forcefully -- he probably should be.

Gammons Peter
10-05-2009, 12:26 PM
I also doubt he would have gotten the playing time in the last month of season if these comments came out then.

And you of course you knew that Pods wanted to be a guaranteed starter and that his agent would make all decisions.

As I said before, Lets see how it plays out.


He was hitting .300, who else was going to get playing time....... D Wise?

Most, if not all professional athletes want to start

dickallen15
10-05-2009, 01:51 PM
Your bolded statement is one reason I have never been a big fan of Konerko as captain. He is a reluctant captain and does not like to cheer lead. He says baseball is not football and you don't need the rah-rah stuff. Well, someone has to lead.

This also speaks to the intensity level that was never there all season; there was never a sense of urgency, either.

The Sox need someone who can kick some butts and take names. Jake Peavy may be that guy.

I love how Konerko led in the 2005 ALCS and WS.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-05-2009, 02:56 PM
I love how Konerko led in the 2005 ALCS and WS.

They made him captain after that, and he reluctantly took the title, and I personally don't care for how he has led since. As I noted, he has publicly said it is not his style to be rah-rah and this is not football.

We all appreciate what he did 4 years ago, but that was 4 years ago. And I I don't call what he did then "leading." He played well and went about his business in his own quiet way. He thinks everyone is a professional and should handle themselves accordingly.

That may work with a veteran club, when you're trying to ease in some younger players, they often need to be handled differently.

The team this year lacked passion and any sense of urgency. Kinda like Konerko's personality.

Bob G
10-05-2009, 02:59 PM
Some very interesting stuff on this thread...

My comments:

1. After watching Peavy pitch in 3 games, we seem to play like a different (meaning better) team, I'm really looking forward to see how Jake does for the entire season. Hopefully his intensity and competitiveness will spread to other players that can use some.

2. Pods and AJ were our most consistent hitters all season, we need both of them back next year. They also understand what it takes to win championships.

3. Kenny needs to focus on a good right fielder who has a decent BA with RISP. Add a little bullpen help and we should be in good shape for next year.

Gammons Peter
10-05-2009, 03:10 PM
Some very interesting stuff on this thread...

My comments:

1. After watching Peavy pitch in 3 games, we seem to play like a different (meaning better) team, I'm really looking forward to see how Jake does for the entire season. Hopefully his intensity and competitiveness will spread to other players that can use some.

2. Pods and AJ were our most consistent hitters all season, we need both of them back next year. They also understand what it takes to win championships.

3. Kenny needs to focus on a good right fielder who has a decent BA with RISP. Add a little bullpen help and we should be in good shape for next year.


You want Pods back AND a new right fielder. Where is Pods going to play

voodoochile
10-05-2009, 03:14 PM
You want Pods back AND a new right fielder. Where is Pods going to play

In theory, they could rotate the DH slot between the corner OF slots including Pods.

Crestani
10-05-2009, 03:17 PM
I didn't see this while I was writing my last post. I wish that I had. I would have voiced my question about AJ even more strongly. If this is true about AJ not being willing to mentor Flowers, then I won't at all be surprised to see AJ traded. And, I'll say it even more forcefully -- he probably should be.


Yeah, sure, trade the one guy who has passion and leads by example. Don't assume anything about Flowers or this situation, until you hear it confirmed.:scratch:

In any event, give me more AJ's with his attitude day in and day out, and you can bet you will field a team that cares about winning!

Gammons Peter
10-05-2009, 03:17 PM
In theory, they could rotate the DH slot between the corner OF slots including Pods.

god, i hope not. that's awful

Bob G
10-05-2009, 03:22 PM
You want Pods back AND a new right fielder. Where is Pods going to play

He could rotate between LF and DH. Keep in mind TCQ has spent a lot of time on the DL the last 2 seasons. He can also play some CF when Rios needs a rest.

voodoochile
10-05-2009, 03:23 PM
god, i hope not. that's awful

Why?

Gammons Peter
10-05-2009, 03:26 PM
Why?

I don't want Pods back and I really don't want him as DH

voodoochile
10-05-2009, 03:30 PM
I don't want Pods back and I really don't want him as DH

Okay. I would like Pods back at the right price and think they Sox need to find a LOH if he isn't. Hate the idea of Beckham as a LOH and Getz simply doesn't have the OBP to do it. If not Pods than they need to find someone who can leadoff.

I like the idea of a rotating DH to keep players fresh.

Gammons Peter
10-05-2009, 03:42 PM
I just don't think he can repeat his performance. History says he will get hurt and/or be bad

voodoochile
10-05-2009, 03:47 PM
I just don't think he can repeat his performance. History says he will get hurt and/or be bad

He doesn't have that big of a year to year sample size. I don't think calling him injury prone holds water.

Hitmen77
10-05-2009, 03:57 PM
You want Pods back AND a new right fielder. Where is Pods going to play

Even if Pods comes back, we still have a hole in our lineup (corner OF/DH) to fill. KW has already said he doesn't want a full-time DH. His ideal is to be able to rotate starters between the OF and DH positions throughout the season.

Noneck
10-05-2009, 04:06 PM
He was hitting .300, who else was going to get playing time....... D Wise?



Sure along with Dye, Quentin, Kotsay and Rios, plenty of bodies to fill that hole.

Bob G
10-05-2009, 04:08 PM
Even if Pods comes back, we still have a hole in our lineup (corner OF/DH) to fill. KW has already said he doesn't want a full-time DH. His ideal is to be able to rotate starters between the OF and DH positions throughout the season.

That's exactly right which is why I'm saying bring Pods back and get a good right fielder. This will give us four outfielders that can rotate into the DH spot.

Regarding Pods previous health issues - seems like the new training program he's on is working so maybe this year wasn't a fluke. If he does come back I hope he can improve his base running - I don't remember Pods having so many problems in '05.

I just think he gives this team a lot of energy and was one of the bright spots this year.

soxtalker
10-05-2009, 08:03 PM
Yeah, sure, trade the one guy who has passion and leads by example. Don't assume anything about Flowers or this situation, until you hear it confirmed.:scratch:

In any event, give me more AJ's with his attitude day in and day out, and you can bet you will field a team that cares about winning!

Well, ... sure. It all depends on what the real story is. And right now, the report is pretty fragmentary. But the way that Lip phrased it - "that A.J. didn't really work or help with Flowers" - certainly doesn't sound like Flowers was the source of the problem.

Look, I hope that the report is wrong. And I certainly appreciate AJ's dilemma. He'd essentially be training his replacement. But, if it is true, KW has to deal with it. He needs to figure out how to transition Flowers to the majors. Most on this board (me included) seem to have been assuming that this would either mean another stint in AAA for Flowers followed by some time spelling AJ next year. But if AJ is unwilling to mentor Flowers and KW considers Flowers to be his next catcher, this is a problem.

Daver
10-05-2009, 08:25 PM
Well, ... sure. It all depends on what the real story is. And right now, the report is pretty fragmentary. But the way that Lip phrased it - "that A.J. didn't really work or help with Flowers" - certainly doesn't sound like Flowers was the source of the problem.

Look, I hope that the report is wrong. And I certainly appreciate AJ's dilemma. He'd essentially be training his replacement. But, if it is true, KW has to deal with it. He needs to figure out how to transition Flowers to the majors. Most on this board (me included) seem to have been assuming that this would either mean another stint in AAA for Flowers followed by some time spelling AJ next year. But if AJ is unwilling to mentor Flowers and KW considers Flowers to be his next catcher, this is a problem.

If the White Sox are going to replace a poor defensive catcher with an even worse defensive catcher, he better be able to hit twice AJ's weight, and for both power and average.

Frater Perdurabo
10-05-2009, 08:50 PM
If the White Sox are going to replace a poor defensive catcher with an even worse defensive catcher, he better be able to hit twice AJ's weight, and for both power and average.

What specific deficiencies does Flowers have behind the dish? Bad arm? Bad receiver? Bad at calling pitches? All of the above?

Lip Man 1
10-05-2009, 08:57 PM
Mark Gonzales has a pretty good wrap up talking about some specific areas:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/10/white-sox-postscript.html

Lip