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View Full Version : Cito Gaston gone after the season?


PKalltheway
10-02-2009, 11:37 PM
This article reports from an anonymous source that there is "nearly a mutiny right now" in the Jays clubhouse, and that Gaston has "lost the team." Yikes, I didn't know things were getting that bad north of the border. Who is more to blame for the Jays' struggles this year? Riccardi the G.M., Gaston (a two-time World Champion manager, no less), or the bunch of underachieving players?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10157294/Sources:-Players-don't-want-Cito-back-in-'10

EDIT: I thought just for argument's sake that I would add Gaston's reaction to all of this, as well as some of the thoughts of the players.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jaw-T7M-QJL_juIqIidKl2VvZbJwD9B394180

SOXSINCE'70
10-03-2009, 12:18 AM
This article reports from an anonymous source that there is "nearly a mutiny right now" in the Jays clubhouse, and that Gaston has "lost the team." Yikes, I didn't know things were getting that bad north of the border. Who is more to blame for the Jays' struggles this year? Riccardi the G.M., Gaston (a two-time World Champion manager, no less), or the bunch of underachieving players?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10157294/Sources:-Players-don't-want-Cito-back-in-'10

EDIT: I thought just for argument's sake that I would add Gaston's reaction to all of this, as well as some of the thoughts of the players.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jaw-T7M-QJL_juIqIidKl2VvZbJwD9B394180

Maybe after the Sox fire Greg Walker,
Cito Gaston could be the new hitting coach.:rolleyes:

Lip Man 1
10-03-2009, 12:23 AM
Toronto's problems are caused by one item and one item only. They are in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox.

They will never win a thing.

Lip

PKalltheway
10-03-2009, 12:29 AM
Toronto's problems are caused by one item and one item only. They are in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox.

They will never win a thing.

Lip
Clearly their problems run a bit deeper than the unfortunate distinction of sharing a division with New York and Boston. Their foolish contracts that they have thrown out over the last couple of years are just a start. While it's a disadvantage to the other three teams in the AL East, it should be no reason to say "we give up, there's no way we can compete." That would be bull****.

Last time I checked, they won back to back championships when they shared the AL East with New York and Boston.

jabrch
10-03-2009, 12:32 AM
Toronto's problems are caused by one item and one item only. They are in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox.

They will never win a thing.

Lip

They hired someone to be their GM who was completely unprepared to do the job - and it shows. JP has been a complete trainwreck.

Lip Man 1
10-03-2009, 12:51 AM
PK:

The last time the Jays won anything was basically in the Stone Age. The Yankees had three straight losing seasons from 1990 through 1992...they haven't had one since. The Red Sox haven't had one since 1997.

No coincidence they are the two longest streaks currently in MLB... add to that those two teams have accounted for 15 of the 40 available playoff spots THIS DECADE.

Tampa is the only other team in that division to accomplish anything in the last ten years and they did it a grand total of one time.

The deck is stacked against Toronto and Tampa (which is why they keep lobbying Selig to move them into the Central) and the Orioles. That's reality.

They'll never say "we can't compete" because they wouldn't draw anybody but their fans know. The only answer is they need to fight fire with fire compared to Boston and New York and it takes a pretty wealthy individual or company to tie that one on. So far...no takers.

Lip

PKalltheway
10-03-2009, 12:54 AM
PK:

The last time the Jays won anything was basically in the Stone Age. The Yankees had three straight losing seasons from 1990 through 1992...they haven't had one since. The Red Sox haven't had one since 1997.

No coincidence they are the two longest streaks currently in MLB... add to that those two teams have accounted for 15 of the 40 available playoff spots THIS DECADE.

Tampa is the only other team in that division to accomplish anything in the last ten years and they did it a grand total of one time.

The deck is stacked against Toronto and Tampa (which is why they keep lobbying Selig to move them into the Central) and the Orioles. That's reality.

They'll never say "we can't compete" because they wouldn't draw anybody but their fans know. The only answer is they need to fight fire with fire compared to Boston and New York and it takes a pretty wealthy individual or company to tie that one on. So far...no takers.

Lip
The Blue Jays, IIRC, are owned by the Rogers corporation, a huge media outlet in Canada. How wealthy do you think they are? Do you think they're playing it on the cheap? I'm not being snide or facetious at all, I would just like to know your opinion. They seem like they are large enough and wealthy enough to compete. Besides, it isn't like Toronto is a small market.

Lip Man 1
10-03-2009, 11:33 AM
PK:

Yes to your question. If they are that wealthy than they should have a payroll combarable and comparable talent and they haven't for awhile. Certainly the days of the Blue Jays fielding basically an All Star Team at every position haven't been around since those two World Championships.

Jab:

You get your wish. J.P. was fired today. We'll see in a few years if a new G.M. can make a difference. I wouldn't bet on it.

Lip

SCCWS
10-03-2009, 11:47 AM
It is interesting that 3 of the top 4 spending AL teams have clinched playoff spots. The 4th, Tigers may also make it. But 3 of top 4 NL spenders will not make playoffs. So it still comes down to how you spend as well.

soxinem1
10-03-2009, 12:40 PM
PK:

Yes to your question. If they are that wealthy than they should have a payroll combarable and comparable talent and they haven't for awhile. Certainly the days of the Blue Jays fielding basically an All Star Team at every position haven't been around since those two World Championships.

Jab:

You get your wish. J.P. was fired today. We'll see in a few years if a new G.M. can make a difference. I wouldn't bet on it.

Lip

And I wouldn't be suprised if Cito was right behind him, since the poor, poor players say he treats them so bad.

JP made some mistakes, as ALL GM's do, but you are right. Being in the same division as BOS, NYY, and even TAM is tough. MAybe they should lobby to get into the AL Central, and have MIN moved to the AL West.

downstairs
10-03-2009, 12:57 PM
Toronto's problems are caused by one item and one item only. They are in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox.

They will never win a thing.

Lip

You could say that about Tampa too. Boston and the Yankees are hot this decade. However only 1/2 of the years this decade did both go to the playoffs. That means 1/2 the time, someone does beat out the Yankees or Boston.

Lip Man 1
10-03-2009, 12:59 PM
SCC:

Money doesn't guarantee anything but statistically since MLB went to the three division / wild card format in 1994, it significantly increases your chances for the post season. That according to numbers produced by Bud Selig.

There have been threads on this subject before here at WSI, you may want to do a search through them. The disparity in terms of post season wins based on team payroll are staggering in that time frame on the order of 315-40 something like that. It's pretty amazing.

Lip

Lip Man 1
10-03-2009, 01:45 PM
Down:

If the early part of the decade both Seattle and Oakland were winning 95+ games which is why Boston didn't make it.

The situation now with those two franchises is one of mediocrity or rebuilding. Seriously who in the west or the central for the next few years is going to threaten N.Y. and Boston? Basically no one...this means Toronto is going to have to try to beat them out which just isn't going to happen.

Again of the three teams remaining in the East THIS DECADE only one has ever made the playoffs...one...Tampa and they promptly fell back to just above .500 this year. It was a fluke pure and simple. Out of those three teams they've only even had a "winning" season seven times out of 30 chances.

If Toronto's only option left is to rely on luck and hope than that's a tough sell for a fan base no?

Lip

DumpJerry
10-03-2009, 02:18 PM
Maybe after the Sox fire Greg Walker,
Cito Gaston could be the new hitting coach.:rolleyes:
:tealtutor:
My eyes, my eyes.....

Frater Perdurabo
10-03-2009, 02:40 PM
I think Cito Gaston would be a significantly better hitting coach than Greg Walker. Of course, the Sox will never fire Walker, and they rarely bring in experienced coaches from the outside, so the chances of that happening are zero.

SBSoxFan
10-04-2009, 02:02 AM
I think Cito Gaston would be a significantly better hitting coach than Greg Walker. Of course, the Sox will never fire Walker, and they rarely bring in experienced coaches from the outside, so the chances of that happening are zero.

It's my understanding Gaston was Kenny's first choice to replace Manuel. And then he met with Ozzie. Who knows how that might have worked out, but that World Series championship sure was nice!

Noneck
10-04-2009, 02:24 AM
I think Cito Gaston would be a significantly better hitting coach than Greg Walker. Of course, the Sox will never fire Walker, and they rarely bring in experienced coaches from the outside, so the chances of that happening are zero.

My understanding is that Gaston wouldn't even go through a interview process with other candidates for a managers job. No way he takes a hitting coach job.

SOXSINCE'70
10-04-2009, 07:58 AM
:tealtutor:
My eyes, my eyes.....

I'm color blind.Honest.

SOXSINCE'70
10-04-2009, 08:00 AM
They hired someone to be their GM who was completely unprepared to do the job - and it shows. JP has been a complete trainwreck.

:hawk
"He gone."