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View Full Version : I'll trade you..........


Garrison
06-09-2002, 09:51 AM
I am all for White Flagging it if we are still under .500, a few games back, and playing like crap by like.....the all star break. Here's who we should trade:

Ray: We are paying him too much for his crap numbers and play. I think with Harris at AAA and Graffy on the bench, we'll be just fine at 2nd base. He's also going to be a free agent asking big $$ and we won't resign him IMO so lets not let him go for nothing.

C. Lee: We have been waiting for him to blossom and he just hasn't. It's been since middle of last year since he has hit well for more than a game or two and he's just not producing at all. We've got plenty of outfield talent that's not being used. Rowand, Liefer, Magglio, Borchard they can all play in right or left and Rowand/Borchard can play center field too. What do we need a defensively incompetent Lee who doesn't have the bat to make up for it anymore?

Jose: He's not good enough defensively to play SS and his bat sucks. We've got JOE CREDE to play third and Graffy on the bench. Royce is the best defensive player we have and our offense should be able to compensate for his lack of offense. Benching him hasn't helped us any. He bats 9th because he can't hit but he's a vacuum at short. Stop bitching about him. It's JM's fault that he hits late in games.

Alomar: He's knees have like 0% actual real tissue left. His bat is pretty good but he's so far past his prime that it's not even worth it. When was the last time he threw a guy out? I like MJ but he's got Choice-like numbers at the plate and we can't have two godawful hitters. Sandy has served us well in his time here, but it's time to let him go. It's not worth it.

Foulke: He's not a "closer". Sure when he goes 3-up-3-down he's great but throw in a walk or a hit and it's lights out. He can't pitch with pressure like a baserunner or really tight game. JM is at fault for pitching him in 8th sometimes or other Foulke blunders, but saying "Foulke you!" just isn't the same as it used to be. Convert one of our guys to close games (Glover?), or go and get one.

Our future outfield: Magglio, Borchard, Rowand
Our future infield: Crede, Royce, Harris, Konerko
Our future rotation: Buehrle, Garland, Wright, Biddle?
Our future bullpen: Ginter, Glover, Marte

We just need some more starting pitching, some help in the bullpen, a catcher, maybe a good bench guy/pinch hitter. Some competent management would go a LONG way.

What do you guys think?

LongDistanceFan
06-09-2002, 10:59 AM
what is all this hype on rowand? he barely hits his weight and is an avg fielder.............

Randar68
06-09-2002, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
what is all this hype on rowand? he barely hits his weight and is an avg fielder.............

My sentiments exactly. At this point, they think the unknown is better than a slumping Carlos. I think we need to start a Rowand cult, similar to FOB....it's getting out of hand.

kevingrt
06-09-2002, 11:27 AM
Rowand is better then an average fielder, and he can hit when he is in the line-up more often.

CerberusWG
06-09-2002, 12:43 PM
Future OF: RESIGN LOFTON! Give him all the money he wants if he keeps this up!

LongDistanceFan
06-09-2002, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
Rowand is better then an average fielder, and he can hit when he is in the line-up more often. his avg suck when he was in the minors and how do you know exactly that his avg will increase with more playing time??????? are you a psychic

Iguana775
06-09-2002, 01:34 PM
i am suprised that noone said anything about him putting royce as our future SS. he will not be here beyond this year. period. i dont know who we will have there but is sure as hell isnt going to be him. i think Jose's wont be here more than a few more years. hummell maybe?? but i am not sure if he can play it from what i heard.

LongDistanceFan
06-09-2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775
i am suprised that noone said anything about him putting royce as our future SS. he will not be here beyond this year. period. i dont know who we will have there but is sure as hell isnt going to be him. i think Jose's wont be here more than a few more years. hummell maybe?? but i am not sure if he can play it from what i heard. randar or vic will know more about this......... but the 2 ss of last yr draft......... Andy and i can't think of the other......... i wonder how they are progressing??

CerberusWG
06-09-2002, 01:46 PM
Andy Gonzales and Guillmero Reyes

RedPinStripes
06-09-2002, 01:48 PM
I'm ready to trade all them away to see the young kids up here. Royce will not be here after the season thankfully.

LongDistanceFan
06-09-2002, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
Andy Gonzales and Guillmero Reyes any input on how they are doing and developing????

CerberusWG
06-09-2002, 01:51 PM
Also Tim Hummel and Danny Sandoval

Sandoval is hitting .273 with a .350 OBP 28 SBs. 22 BB

Tim Hummel is hitting .245 with a .332 OBP 3 SBs 26 BB.

Andy Gonzalez doesn't play for us anymore. Whoops.

Reyes is hitting .273 with I think 13 SBs in High A Ball.

Sandoval is in AA, Hummel in AAA.

LongDistanceFan
06-09-2002, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG


Andy Gonzalez doesn't play for us anymore. Whoops.

what happen to him???????

CerberusWG
06-09-2002, 01:55 PM
He isn't in any of our Farm Systems. Maybe he'll start out in Bristol this year. We'll see.

Iguana775
06-09-2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I'm ready to trade all them away to see the young kids up here. Royce will not be here after the season thankfully.


i am almost getting to that point too. the ones i would like to see on the roster are LTP, crede, harris.

RedPinStripes
06-09-2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
what happen to him???????

Good question

Jerry_Manuel
06-09-2002, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Good question

Perhaps he's hurt.

LongDistanceFan
06-09-2002, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Perhaps he's hurt. i hope its not bad......... this guy, according to last yr was the package for our future ss

neal
06-09-2002, 02:06 PM
hold onto Royce? Are you kidding? I'd get rid of him as soon as possible. Yes, he is one of the best defensive shortstops in the league, but that all goes to waste with his < .200 batting average. We should not be paying him millions of dollars every year to have him strike out all the time. Let's face it, runs are what are going to win games, not incredable defense. You can have the best defense in the world, they can hit a homer (which has nothing to do with your defense) and since you can't score any runs, the ball game is over.

Jerry_Manuel
06-09-2002, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
i hope its not bad......... this guy, according to last yr was the package for our future ss

I have no idea if he's hurt, just guessing.

LongDistanceFan
06-09-2002, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by neal
hold onto Royce? Are you kidding? I'd get rid of him as soon as possible. Yes, he is one of the best defensive shortstops in the league, but that all goes to waste with his < .200 batting average. We should not be paying him millions of dollars every year to have him strike out all the time. Let's face it, runs are what are going to win games, not incredable defense. You can have the best defense in the world, they can hit a homer (which has nothing to do with your defense) and since you can't score any runs, the ball game is over. who are you replying to???????

neal
06-09-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
who are you replying to???????

Sorry, the original message

cornball
06-09-2002, 03:33 PM
Garrison ...i agree we need changes....Ray is a streaky player who can carry us offensively if he is hot .....C Lee has to go....and Valentin too.....these guys all all good but soo streaky.....my thought has always been to have Crede here from the start anyone else in left and Ray is leaving anyway after the year so he has too as well.....but you need to get equal value in return...I do believe Alomar is a good a fundamental catcher there is when at full strength....but the schedule til allstar break is nasty...and they do need a spark......maybe start with Carlos

delben91
06-09-2002, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
what is all this hype on rowand? he barely hits his weight and is an avg fielder.............

Maybe he'll never be a star with the big club, but I do love his all out attitude for the game. Remember him running into walls to make those catches last year? He's good in his role, defensive replacement, pinch runner, occasional start. Plus, if his attitude rubs off even a little on the rest of the team, all the better. All star? Nope. Starter, nah, probably not. Worth a roster spot, yeah, I'd say so.

Randar68
06-09-2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I have no idea if he's hurt, just guessing.

He's not hurt. He's playing at the Sox instructional facilities in Arizona. There is no league there, so you can't get stats. I'm sure he will be at either Bristol (hopefully) or Pheonix once short season ball starts in a little bit.

He's NOT hurt. I was disappointed they didn't start him in Kannapolis, but they felt he was still quite raw (especially defensively) and wanted to work on some things with individual instruction....

Randar68
06-09-2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by delben91


Maybe he'll never be a star with the big club, but I do love his all out attitude for the game. Remember him running into walls to make those catches last year? He's good in his role, defensive replacement, pinch runner, occasional start. Plus, if his attitude rubs off even a little on the rest of the team, all the better. All star? Nope. Starter, nah, probably not. Worth a roster spot, yeah, I'd say so.

EXACTLY! perfect 4th outfielder.

RedPinStripes
06-09-2002, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


EXACTLY! perfect 4th outfielder.

And what's Dumbass Caballo?

Randar68
06-09-2002, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


And what's Dumbass Caballo?

A young hitter who needs a new hitting coach. Coincidence his year-long slump has coincided with Gary Ward's arrival???

perhaps not

Daver
06-09-2002, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


A young hitter who needs a new hitting coach. Coincidence his year-long slump has coincided with Gary Ward's arrival???

perhaps not

Damn shame Royce forced out Von Joshua.

LongDistanceFan
06-09-2002, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by daver


Damn shame Royce forced out Von Joshua. refresh my memory...... how did royce force him out?

Daver
06-09-2002, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
refresh my memory...... how did royce force him out?

Von was fired because the lower third of the order was not hitting,Royce had a problem with Von,and refused to take the extra BP that was asked of him,two weeks later Von was fired.

LongDistanceFan
06-09-2002, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by daver


Von was fired because the lower third of the order was not hitting,Royce had a problem with Von,and refused to take the extra BP that was asked of him,two weeks later Von was fired. thanks now i remember............

Nellie_Fox
06-10-2002, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
refresh my memory...... how did royce force him out? Everything wrong with the Sox the last two years is Royce's fault. It has been posted that he "singlehandedly" destroyed the season last year. It's amazing the impact of a weak hitter in the number nine slot.

Randar68
06-10-2002, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Everything wrong with the Sox the last two years is Royce's fault. It has been posted that he "singlehandedly" destroyed the season last year. It's amazing the impact of a weak hitter in the number nine slot.

especially one that makes 4.5 million and cries like a 2-year old when he's hitting under .100....

delben91
06-10-2002, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Everything wrong with the Sox the last two years is Royce's fault. It has been posted that he "singlehandedly" destroyed the season last year. It's amazing the impact of a weak hitter in the number nine slot.

I'm thinking maybe we need an "irony" color to go along with the sarcasm teal.

LongDistanceFan
06-10-2002, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by delben91


I'm thinking maybe we need an "irony" color to go along with the sarcasm teal. irony......... its was more like sarcasm.

TheBigHurt
06-10-2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Garrison

Jose: He's not good enough defensively to play SS and his bat sucks. We've got JOE CREDE to play third and Graffy on the bench. Royce is the best defensive player we have and our offense should be able to compensate for his lack of offense. Benching him hasn't helped us any. He bats 9th because he can't hit but he's a vacuum at short. Stop bitching about him. It's JM's fault that he hits late in games.


people have to stop rippin jose his glove is bad. but he has 9 hrs and 33 rbi's. yeah his Avg is low but so is everyone else on this team not named maggs, pk and lofton.

Dadawg_77
06-10-2002, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox Everything wrong with the Sox
the last two years is Royce's fault. It has been posted that he
!QUOT!singlehandedly!QUOT! destroyed the season last year. It's amazing the impact
of a weak hitter in the number nine slot. I am not blaming everything
on Royce, but last time I check, the Sox play in the AL with out the auto out at the
bottom of the lineup. The problem with Royce, is the Sox downgraded at SS and end
up paying 4.5 million for that luxury. With an owner that can be tight with the purse
strings, the opportunity cost of Royce can be high.

LongDistanceFan
06-10-2002, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I am not blaming everything
on Royce, but last time I check, the Sox play in the AL with out the auto out at the
bottom of the lineup. The problem with Royce, is the Sox downgraded at SS and end
up paying 4.5 million for that luxury. With an owner that can be tight with the purse
strings, the opportunity cost of Royce can be high.

is it really royce fault or is it kw fault for not listening to those who told him NOT to trade for clayton?

jr can't be blamed for this as kw said, he thought he could've trade him after the sox picked him up........... which he can't even give him away.

Nellie_Fox
06-11-2002, 02:36 AM
I know that I'm in the distinct minority in that I still believe that defense is important, even in the American League. Most of you guys, if you had your way, would just take the nine best hitters on the club and draw their names out of a hat for defensive positions.

I know that many of you think your baseball knowledge is superior to the people on Baseball Tonight, but tonight they were talking about what some of the teams that were expected to contend but have been disappointing need to do to turn it around. When they got to the White Sox, what did they say? They need to get better on defense; they need to catch the ball better!

LongDistanceFan
06-11-2002, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
They need to get better on defense; they need to catch the ball better! so when the final score is 2-1 or 3-1, is the defense is going to win the game for us at that point ........... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that putting runs on the board is going to win games.

hold2dibber
06-11-2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
I know that I'm in the distinct minority in that I still believe that defense is important, even in the American League. Most of you guys, if you had your way, would just take the nine best hitters on the club and draw their names out of a hat for defensive positions.

I know that many of you think your baseball knowledge is superior to the people on Baseball Tonight, but tonight they were talking about what some of the teams that were expected to contend but have been disappointing need to do to turn it around. When they got to the White Sox, what did they say? They need to get better on defense; they need to catch the ball better!

Maybe it's just me (and I haven't looked at the stats to see if my hunch is right), but it seems like the Sox actually have played better defense this year. With a few notable exceptions (i.e., the 8 unearned runs against the Tribe), defensive lapses have not been our down fall -- either lousy pitching (at first) or lousy hitting (lately) has been the cause of the team's woes. I've actually been impressed with Valentin at 3B, Clayton has been solid, and even Lee has been adequate. Durham and Valentin are somewhat inconsistent, but it has not been defense that has been losing them games.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-11-2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Maybe it's just me (and I haven't looked at the stats to see if my hunch is right), but it seems like the Sox actually have played better defense this year. With a few notable exceptions (i.e., the 8 unearned runs against the Tribe), defensive lapses have not been our down fall -- either lousy pitching (at first) or lousy hitting (lately) has been the cause of the team's woes. I've actually been impressed with Valentin at 3B, Clayton has been solid, and even Lee has been adequate. Durham and Valentin are somewhat inconsistent, but it has not been defense that has been losing them games.

I'm not sure which defensive stats you are referring to, but please tell me you'll look beyond the farcical "fielding percentage" stat that baseball's Neanderthals accept as the holy grail. Never has the credibility of that stat been more questionable. There are times I think the official scorers are watching a different game than the rest of us.

As for Baseball Tonight, I long ago stopped wasting my time watching it. They have precious little time to offer true insights about Chicago baseball--what with all the important happenings on the east and west coast, don't cha know.

What little time they do spend covering our pathetic rabble of teams is largely focused on Sam-me's zingers, Kerry's K's, and Mark Prior's water walkings. Get a clue--these people have NOTHING to offer.

The next useful insight anyone from Baseball Tonight offers about the Chicago White Sox will be the first. You would have as much luck searching for South Side insights guffawing at the bathroom humor on Fox's Best Damned Sports Show.

We lose 3-1 and ESPN thinks our defense sucks.

My God...

Nellie_Fox
06-12-2002, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
so when the final score is 2-1 or 3-1, is the defense is going to win the game for us at that point ........... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that putting runs on the board is going to win games. And letting the other team put runs on the board.....?????


Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
We lose 3-1 and ESPN thinks our defense sucks.
They were talking about the whole season, not just last night's game. This is not a good defensive club PHG. You guys keep worshiping at the altar of the three run homer; I'll keep looking for good defense, good pitching, and the ball hit in the gap. Get out the fur suit; I'm a Cro-Magnon.

LongDistanceFan
06-12-2002, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
And letting the other team put runs on the board.....?????


and you are saying that will happen with jose at ss........... or is it the pitcher who controls the game to the extent of throwing good pitches, esp pitcher who don't make any errors..... like ritchie did..... :D:

is it the quality of todays hitters or the lack of quality pitchers today that can put up 8 runs on the board?

or was that the defense fault........... and i am not referrring to yesterday game.............

guillen4life13
06-12-2002, 01:53 PM
one thing i can easily say is that carlos lee has done a better job defensively than last year (granted, that isn't saying much). Valentin's defense has been pretty good. a lot of times we have been killed by balls hit into the dead zone by other teams (behind first base where no one can get to it in time). those are usually singles but can be stretched into doubles. there's nothing you can do about that. lofton has robbed a few this year already. his ba has steadily taken a dive, but i think that once he can get himself back on track he's gonna be lights out again, going the other way.

that being said, this defense still is nowhere close to being the best in the league.