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View Full Version : Do we offer arbitration?


JohnTucker0814
09-30-2009, 12:44 PM
Do we offer arbitration to Octavio Dotel this year? He is classified as a Type A FA, and we have to offer arbitration to get draft pick compensation.

My opinion is that we do offer arbitration because he will be looking for a multi year deal and I don't think he really wants to come back to the Sox. More than likely he will decline and hopefully we get 1st round compensation for someone putting up the dough to receive his services!

Also, do we offer arbitration to JD once we decline his option. He is borderline Type A FA, but the latest rankings as of Sept 28th, have him at the bottom of the Type A FA, so we could get compensation for him as well.

I think with these two guys it's worth the chance to get compensation because if they accept we can see the benefit of 1 more year of each of them.

What are your thoughts?

chisox12
09-30-2009, 12:47 PM
Yes with Dotel since he will prob reject the Sox's offer. No for JD. Can't risk him accepting and bringing him back next year. The guy has done great things for the Sox, but we cant have him breaking down in the second half once again.

eriqjaffe
09-30-2009, 12:54 PM
I'm not sure if the Sox can offer JD arbitration since there's an option clause in his contract. I'm not 100% sure how that works, though.

But, yes, by all means offer arbitration to Dotel. If he accepts, then that helps solidify the bullpen next year. If he declines, then hello draft pick.

CanBuehrleWait
09-30-2009, 12:55 PM
Dotel made 6million this year. JD made 11.5million according to Cots. JD a big no. Is Dotel worth a 4.8mill risk(80% of this years salary)? Not so sure but probably not.

Lip Man 1
09-30-2009, 01:01 PM
Yes to Dotel (and I hope the Sox sign him), no to Dye.

Lip

asindc
09-30-2009, 01:13 PM
I'm thinking that the Sox won't have to offer arb to JD. I think at this point he will be happy to be re-signed at all. Dotel? Not for 4.8mil. If someone else wants to pay him that, let them.

MarkZ35
09-30-2009, 01:19 PM
Dye already said he would take a pay cut. So offering arbitration if possible to him might be exactly what he is looking for.

Lip Man 1
09-30-2009, 01:43 PM
Dye has had two awful half seasons in 2007 (first) and 2009 (second). Is it because of his contract status? Is there something more going on?

That's for Kenny to decide but I think it's time JD followed Jim Thome out the door. Remember Kenny answered "yes" to Joe Cowley's question, 'is this team mentally weak...'

We'll see.

Lip

soxfanreggie
09-30-2009, 01:45 PM
Dye already said he would take a pay cut. So offering arbitration if possible to him might be exactly what he is looking for.

I don't think he'll take a paycut that big enough to where we can afford to trade or DFA him if he's not doing well.

MarkZ35
09-30-2009, 01:55 PM
I don't think he'll take a paycut that big enough to where we can afford to trade or DFA him if he's not doing well.
I agree. That's why I was saying offering him arbitration to get the draft pick may be exactly what he might be looking for. Unless somehow they were able to sign him for under 5 mil would be the only way I would take him back. He is too much of a liability to have the same kind of year.

LoveYourSuit
09-30-2009, 02:09 PM
Yes to Dotel (and I hope the Sox sign him), no to Dye.

Lip


I too think not bringing back Dotel would be a huge mistake by the Sox.

oeo
09-30-2009, 02:38 PM
Dye has had two awful half seasons in 2007 (first) and 2009 (second). Is it because of his contract status? Is there something more going on?

We know he had injury problems in the first half of 2007.

BadBobbyJenks
09-30-2009, 04:15 PM
Dye has had two awful half seasons in 2007 (first) and 2009 (second). Is it because of his contract status? Is there something more going on?

That's for Kenny to decide but I think it's time JD followed Jim Thome out the door. Remember Kenny answered "yes" to Joe Cowley's question, 'is this team mentally weak...'

We'll see.

Lip

So Dye was mentally strong in 05 when we won it all, but is now mentally weak?

KyWhiSoxFan
09-30-2009, 06:09 PM
I don't think he'll take a paycut that big enough to where we can afford to trade or DFA him if he's not doing well.

I think you have to offer him at least 80% in arbitration. So the Sox would have to pay him at least 9.2-million. And Dye would probably take that in a heartbeat since no one else is going to pay him that much as a free agent.

So, no, the Sox can't afford to go to arbitration with him and risk him taking it. Dye will wind up taking something like $5-million (if he's lucky) from some team willing to take a chance that he will rebound and his career is not basically over.

Tragg
09-30-2009, 07:01 PM
DeWayne Wise had a tremendous September and improved his obp from .240 to almost .260.
He's a much needed lefty stick and he can run.
His contract expires this year.
What to do, what to do?

Lip Man 1
09-30-2009, 07:13 PM
Bobby:

Dye lets his contract situation bother him so the answer to the question is "yes." It's happened twice now. He's part of the issue based on Kenny's response.

I'd be surprised if he's back.

Lip

CWSpalehoseCWS
09-30-2009, 07:19 PM
Yes. I might be in the minority, but I want him back next year. He's solid out of the pen. I realize he's most likely gone, so you might as well and try to get something for him.

slavko
09-30-2009, 07:21 PM
DeWayne Wise had a tremendous September and improved his obp from .240 to almost .260.
He's a much needed lefty stick and he can run.
His contract expires this year.
What to do, what to do?

Run fast, run far.

Tragg
09-30-2009, 07:29 PM
I guess we should offer Dotel arb and hope he rejects. I'd certainly prefer that his $6 mill or whatever it is be used in other areas of need. I think he accepts though.

russ99
09-30-2009, 08:15 PM
Dye already said he would take a pay cut. So offering arbitration if possible to him might be exactly what he is looking for.

Yeah, but $12M is surely much more that the Sox want to pay for Jermaine. If Dye is willing to eat crow and come back for $4-6M (maybe slightly more with incentives) the door is slightly ajar, but I'd think he'd get better offers elsewhere.

I think the Sox offer arb to Dotel, since it's very unlikely that he would accept it and he'll be in demand as a FA. We could always use a "A" compensation pick.

KyWhiSoxFan
09-30-2009, 10:56 PM
Yeah, but $12M is surely much more that the Sox want to pay for Jermaine. If Dye is willing to eat crow and come back for $4-6M (maybe slightly more with incentives) the door is slightly ajar, but I'd think he'd get better offers elsewhere.

I think the Sox offer arb to Dotel, since it's very unlikely that he would accept it and he'll be in demand as a FA. We could always use a "A" compensation pick.

That is not possible. You have to offer him 80% at least in arbitration. The only way the Sox can get him for less would be to wait till after May 1 (I believe that is the date), and at that point can negotiate a different price. But under that scenario the Sox could not sign him till the season is a month old.

Lip Man 1
09-30-2009, 11:36 PM
KY:

I think MLB abolished that May 1st signing rule a few years ago but I could be wrong. I thought I read something about that on a thread here at WSI.

Lip

Brian26
09-30-2009, 11:50 PM
That is not possible. You have to offer him 80% at least in arbitration. The only way the Sox can get him for less would be to wait till after May 1 (I believe that is the date), and at that point can negotiate a different price. But under that scenario the Sox could not sign him till the season is a month old.

KY:

I think MLB abolished that May 1st signing rule a few years ago but I could be wrong. I thought I read something about that on a thread here at WSI.

Lip

Does arbitration still apply? If the Sox don't pick up Dye's club option and elect to buy him out for $1 million (or whatever the nominal amount is), does he then become at that point an unrestricted free agent, which the Sox could re-sign immediately?

Also, the May 1 rule is still in effect. There was talk earlier this year of bringing OC back for SS if nobody signed him.

soxinem1
09-30-2009, 11:53 PM
KY:

I think MLB abolished that May 1st signing rule a few years ago but I could be wrong. I thought I read something about that on a thread here at WSI.

Lip

I believe you are correct, but I'm still not sure how low they can reduce his salary.

I'm also in the minority here, as I think JD should stay. As a RF? No. As a DH/sometimes OF? Yes.

LoveYourSuit
10-01-2009, 12:52 AM
I guess we should offer Dotel arb and hope he rejects. I'd certainly prefer that his $6 mill or whatever it is be used in other areas of need. I think he accepts though.


I think with gaping holes in the pen (Linebrink and Jenks), It is important for the Sox to sign a veteran reliable arm. Dotel fits that mold.

It's Dankerific
10-01-2009, 01:54 AM
I think with gaping holes in the pen (Linebrink and Jenks), It is important for the Sox to sign a veteran reliable arm. Dotel fits that mold.

Just your average ups and downs!

russ99
10-01-2009, 07:37 AM
I think with gaping holes in the pen (Linebrink and Jenks), It is important for the Sox to sign a veteran reliable arm. Dotel fits that mold.

The problem with that is some other team will offer Dotel $5-6M a year with a shot to close. That, and his desire to play in the East is why he'd turn down arbitration.

He won't get that chance to close here, and the Sox can use that salary space to acquire 2-3 younger relievers.

As for Linebrink, I wonder if he's been gutting it up and playing hurt. He's never been so bad his entire career. I doubt we'll be able to move his contract, so maybe if we can get him healthy, throwing strikes and build the velocity back up he might be effective again.

Nellie_Fox
10-01-2009, 11:22 AM
...maybe if we can get him healthy, throwing strikes and build the velocity back up he might be effective again.The biggest problem has been an absolute lack of command of the splitter, making him essentially a one-pitch pitcher, and his fastball isn't dominating enough to get away with that.

palehozenychicty
10-01-2009, 11:41 AM
I'd offer Dotel and not JD.

hawkjt
10-01-2009, 12:59 PM
I'd offer Dotel and not JD.


Sadly, I agree. JD cannot be counted on anymore, it seems. If he had shown any glimpes that it will come back next year in the second half, I would give him the benefit of the doubt, but he flat-lined for 70 games straight..cept for one game with two homers....that is falling off the cliff and I just do not think it magically comes back for 160 games next year.

Listening to Coop this morning, he did not minx words on Linebrink and Dotel,pointedly saying that they had let us down in big situations even tho Dotel's numbers were not too bad. I think you offer him, and he bails and you get the picks. Find some new blood,since Liney will be back.

LoveYourSuit
10-01-2009, 01:13 PM
The problem with that is some other team will offer Dotel $5-6M a year with a shot to close. That, and his desire to play in the East is why he'd turn down arbitration.

He won't get that chance to close here, and the Sox can use that salary space to acquire 2-3 younger relievers.

As for Linebrink, I wonder if he's been gutting it up and playing hurt. He's never been so bad his entire career. I doubt we'll be able to move his contract, so maybe if we can get him healthy, throwing strikes and build the velocity back up he might be effective again.

We need good relievers.

I highly doubt that $6 million will allow you to acquire 2-3 young and good ones.

On the opposite end, you also do not want to make another mistake like Linebrink.


It's a tough task for KW. The youth movement with Aardsma, Massett, Logan was a complete debacle. Veterans costing $$$ was a slight improvement but not WS material. Jenks is the biggest wild card because now the closer role is huge question mark once again.

khan
10-02-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm also in the minority here, as I think JD should stay. As a RF? No. As a DH/sometimes OF? Yes.

Given what some of the sluggers might command this offseason in free agency, AND given what KW's budget might be, I'm in agreement.

If JD can be brought back at a reasonable price, AND there are no better options at the same price point, I think JD should be brought back. The offense has sucked without a secondary slugger to Konerko this season, though I do admit that I've been disappointed in what JD's done since the ASB. I don't have full faith and confidence in Quentin, until he proves he can stay healthy.

Frater Perdurabo
10-02-2009, 09:17 PM
I'd let Dye go, and instead make a trade for Carl Crawford, and also sign Chone Figgins.

Lineup: Figgins, Beckham, Crawford, TCQ, PK, AJ, Rios, Getz, Alexei
Bench: Pods, Kotsay, Castro, Nix

Those players together might steal 200 bases. That would mean lots of fastballs and mistakes for Sox hitters to hit. An OF of Figgins, Rios and Crawford would not let many balls get by them.

BeeBeeRichard
10-05-2009, 03:35 PM
I'd let Dye go, and instead make a trade for Carl Crawford, and also sign Chone Figgins.

Lineup: Figgins, Beckham, Crawford, TCQ, PK, AJ, Rios, Getz, Alexei
Bench: Pods, Kotsay, Castro, Nix

Those players together might steal 200 bases. That would mean lots of fastballs and mistakes for Sox hitters to hit. An OF of Figgins, Rios and Crawford would not let many balls get by them.

I think it's a pipe dream to think that the Sox will make two major salary commitments in Figgins AND Crawford (Crawford worth acquiring only if you are also signing him to a multi-year deal, given what you'd have to trade away to get him) on top of the Peavy and Rios acquisitions. And that's taking into consideration all the salary going away (Thome, Conteras, Dye)

BUT ... I do agree that the Sox should make one MAJOR free-agent acquisition, if only because their first round draft pick is protected next year since it is in the top 15. You would hope that the Sox are rarely if ever in position to sign a Type A free agent without losing a No. 1 draft pick. While I'd love Figgins to be at the top of the lineup, the more realistic Type A for the Sox would be Bobby Abreu.

OF/DH: Quentin/Abreu/Rios/Podsednik w/ a little bit of Kotsay (Keep Quentin and Podsednik healthier by rotating them through the DH spot along with Konerko and Abreu occasionally)
1B: Konerko w/ a little bit of Kotsay
Rest of IF: Beckham w/ Ramirez, Nix and Getz competing for the other two spots. Probably ends up being Ramirez + Getz/Nix platoon.
C: Pierzynski b/w Castro
Without a pure DH, should be able to get by with 12 field players. Keep Lillibridge, Wise, Fields(can we send him down again?) etc., in minors to cover for the inevitable injuries (Podsednik hamstring, Quentin intensity disorder)

SP: Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Garcia
RP: Jenks (shape up or ship out - literally), XXXXX, Thornton, Linebrink, Dotel (arb. deal), Hudson, Carrasco, Randy Williams or another lefty.
Fill that XXXXX slot with a RHP who can compete with Jenks (and Thornton) for the closer role if necessary, or at least bump Linebrink and Dotel down to more comfortable roles. Linebrink went bad in '08 when he had to fill in for Jenks. Keep him at least one step removed from that happening again and hope he can turn it around. That's a lot of money on him and Dotel for basically 7th inning outs, but we're stuck with Linebrink. And who knows, maybe Dotel will refuse arbitration. Then we could fill that slot a little cheaper.